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(TaxProf)   Pac-12 fights to keep for-profit schools out of Division I so cash goes "to our student-athletes first and foremost." The twelve Pac-12 directors who make up to $2 million/year for one hour work/week could not be reached for comment   (taxprof.typepad.com) divider line 101
    More: Interesting, NCAA Division I, for-profit schools, athlete of the year, NCAA  
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3772 clicks; posted to Sports » on 22 Jul 2013 at 3:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-22 03:54:46 PM

fireclown: Wellon Dowd: fireclown: It is different because educating researchers is the job of a University, and producing football players is not.

With some universities, I'm not so sure.

I agree.  I'm pointing my finger at U of Florida, Ohio State, and Penn.  I think that we can all agree that the role of colleges shouldn't be producing athletes, and that something has gone badly amiss.


UF - USN&WR Ranking - 54
Penn State (I assume you meant Penn State, and not Ivy League Penn there) - USN&WR Ranking - 46
Ohio State - USN&WR Ranking - 56

Now, for some non-'big sports'-schools

NYU - USN&WR Ranking - 32
RPI - USN&WR Ranking - 41
Boston University - USN&WR Ranking - 51

If you look at the USN&WR Top Ten ranked schools, 8 of them participate in NCAA Division 1 Athletics and field football teams (spoiler - it's mostly Ivy League schools, but Duke and Stanford make it onto the list as well).

Now, University rankings aren't everything, and might not even mean much, but the point is that having an athletics program, even a big athletics program, doesn't detract from other opportunities at a school.  A school can be a world class educational institution, do groundbreaking research, and still field a football team.
 
2013-07-22 03:54:53 PM
So I coin another one.
I did coin weaksauce and a few others.
 
2013-07-22 03:55:17 PM

TuteTibiImperes: For most college athletes the reason they play is for love of the game, or because playing for the school was their ticket to a free education.  The vast majority of college athletes, including football and basketball players, will never play professionally.  Even at the biggest sports schools the majority of the athletes know they aren't headed for the pros, and the percentage that have a chance to play professionally just goes down as you go through the mid-major conferences to the minor conferences and then into D2, D3, and the NAIA.

The opportunity to earn an degree and graduate debt free is a huge incentive, and the majority of student athletes take advantage of that and go on to careers outside of professional sports.  Turning the NCAA into some minor-league for the NFL and NCAA would be a disservice to the vast majority of student athletes.


I like this response.  If what the commercials tell me during March Madness, most kids will be professional in something other than sports.  There are a lot of kids who play sports that will, in all honesty and likelihood, will never go pro, but I'm sure that the stud DE at Alabama or the light-footed RB at Oklahoma or the WR with blazing speed at Oregon are only there for the quality education and nothing more.

This is just wishful thinking, but I would love it if the NFL let teams draft kids out of high school.  They wouldn't play in the NFL right away, because that's paid suicide and illegal in most states and countries, but ideally the teams could draft players they see potential in, guide them to the right college football programs for their skills to mature, and hopefully get them ready for whatever pro scheme that particular team is going to run.  They can pay the players a minor-league salary (it's a pittance compared to an actual contract, but it would still be money), and the colleges and universities could still have their games, a.k.a. cash cows.  Plus, at least for college football where this makes the most sense, it would get rid of that Ed O'Bannon lawsuit, and if done right, could let the teams help the players in terms of the changes they should expect when they join the big team.

Of course, this is all ideal, so I'm sure the people in charge would find a way to f-it all up, and the NFL probably doesn't like to do the research that colleges do for free right now anyways.  It is ridiculous, though, that more than half the states have a football coach making the most out of ANY public employee, including governors (if I'm reading that right, and if there are stats to back that up).  Wow
 
2013-07-22 03:55:34 PM

fireclown: This text is now purple: Rebuttal:

I was paid as a grad student to be a researcher, which was basically employment as a minor league engineer on behalf of some external industry company who out-sourced research to my prof.

How is that different than being an NCAA athlete, except I made less money for my school than the football team did, and the NCAA didn't care that I was paid?

It is different because educating researchers is the job of a University, and producing football players is not.


Physical education is part of a classical education. It was the Ivy schools that started the whole athletic scholarship idea.
 
2013-07-22 03:57:52 PM

This text is now purple: The NSF gave me handfuls of cash. Paid my engineering department, too.


That's cute, but you know it was nothing like what goes on when school boosters run unchecked.
 
2013-07-22 03:59:22 PM

This text is now purple: fireclown: This text is now purple: Rebuttal:

I was paid as a grad student to be a researcher, which was basically employment as a minor league engineer on behalf of some external industry company who out-sourced research to my prof.

How is that different than being an NCAA athlete, except I made less money for my school than the football team did, and the NCAA didn't care that I was paid?

It is different because educating researchers is the job of a University, and producing football players is not.

Physical education is part of a classical education. It was the Ivy schools that started the whole athletic scholarship idea.


The Ivy League schools don't explicitly give football scholarships (I'm not sure about other sports) but due to a large number of student athletes coming from households with relatively modest earnings compared to other attendees, many of them end up getting a full ride or close to it due to need based aid.
 
2013-07-22 03:59:38 PM
The entirety of college sports is a money-grabbing scheme.

There's nothin' wrong with dat.
 
2013-07-22 04:00:41 PM
This guy put it best (from http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-13/abolish-college-football.htm l):

What the NCAA does is fundamentally abusive: it holds the wage for minor league football and basketball players down to zero, under the pretense that its workers are students. The person who put this best was Robert Barro (my father),

The NCAA is impressive partly because its limitations on scholarships and other payments to athletes boost the profitability of college sports programs. But even more impressive is the NCAA's ability to maintain the moral high ground. For example, many college basketball players come from poor families and are not sufficiently talented to make it to the NBA. Absent the NCAA, such a student would be able to amass significant cash during a college career. With the NCAA in charge, this student remains poor. Nevertheless, the athletic association has managed to convince most people that the evildoers are the schools that violate the rules by attempting to pay athletes rather than the cartel enforcers who keep the student-athletes from getting paid.

Football is even worse: it has the same labor dynamics as basketball, and is also http://www.philly.com/philly/health/HealthDay666224_20120629_Study_of_ Retired_NFL_Players_Finds_Evidence_of_Brain_Damage.html?cmpid=13889655 4">bad for players' health. Yet these enterprises are hugely profitable for universities, in part because labor costs are held so low. And that makes it difficult for university administrators to rein in their athletic programs, as we saw when Penn State's administrators let http://www.philly.com/philly/news/162305166.html?c=r">overrule them about notifying the state of Sandusky's behavior. Football was the lifeblood of Penn State, so it was more like Paterno was the university president's boss than vice-versa.

There is demand for minor league basketball and football, but there's no need for it to be tied to universities, or for the leagues to abuse their workers. By spinning off these profit centers, universities could return to their educational missions, and treat athletics the way the NCAA's Division III does: as an amateur activity to complement students' education.
 
2013-07-22 04:01:12 PM

kwame: This text is now purple: The NSF gave me handfuls of cash. Paid my engineering department, too.

That's cute, but you know it was nothing like what goes on when school boosters run unchecked.


I just can't get myself worked up about the evil of some alumni writing a blank check to a college.
 
2013-07-22 04:02:12 PM

TuteTibiImperes: The opportunity to earn an degree and graduate debt free is a huge incentive, and the majority of student athletes take advantage of that and go on to careers outside of professional sports. Turning the NCAA into some minor-league for the NFL and NCAA would be a disservice to the vast majority of student athletes.


The people who come into these threads to rave and foam at the mouth about the NCAA don't care about that.  For some reason, they have taken up the cause of football players because they don't get paid to play football.  That is their only concern.
 
2013-07-22 04:02:25 PM
Hmmmm, let's see, human accomplishments: Splitting the atom, reaching the moon, curing diseases....mmmmmm pretty good, throwing and catching balls..wait what?
 
2013-07-22 04:02:37 PM

TuteTibiImperes: The Ivy League schools don't explicitly give football scholarships (I'm not sure about other sports) but due to a large number of student athletes coming from households with relatively modest earnings compared to other attendees, many of them end up getting a full ride or close to it due to need based aid.


They don't now. They did until the 1920s, and only stopped because Harvard and Yale started to get pounded in football by state schools that were following their lead.

Basically, they didn't like having to play the poors on an equal footing, so they took their ball and went home.
 
2013-07-22 04:03:28 PM

TuteTibiImperes: semiotix: TuteTibiImperes: The opportunity to earn an degree and graduate debt free is a huge incentive, and the majority of student athletes take advantage of that and go on to careers outside of professional sports.

In and of itself I've got no problem with this. Hell, I enjoyed cheering on my D-III school's shiatty teams to victory a smaller margin of defeat, and I don't think I'd have felt radically different if I'd attended a school that gave out athletic scholarships.

But the only way to reach that goal you're talking about ethically is to ban recruiting and erect a firewall between admissions, financial aid, and the athletic department. That would mean no recruiting of athletes, no assistant coaches in the stands at high school games. Welcome to UNC, young Michael Jordan. Congratulations on meeting our admissions standards. Oh, you say you want to try out for the basketball team? The signup sheet is over there. Or, you could, you know, join the chess team or the Campus Republicans. Whatever floats your boat. The important thing is that you're here to get a good education.

Not for a hot minute do I believe such a system could ever work in practice. It'd be inconvenient at best for the students, it'd be an impossible temptation for the athletic departments, and it'd deprive universities of some window-dressing in terms of economic and minority outreach. But that is how it'd have to look, if it were honest and ethical and built around the 99.95% of student athletes who don't go pro, as opposed to the 0.05% who do.

I don't see the problem with recruiting and offering scholarships based on athletic talent.  The students still need to meet admissions criteria at most institutions (some are more willing to waive or bend the rules than others) and they still need to be enrolled in classes and maintain a certain GPA (and yes, some schools certainly cheat the system, the majority don't).  The NCAA has rules, such as the APR (which is unfortunately broken in a few w ...


Which is why when I create accounts for our online learning management system for a group of "special" classes held at UF, taught by our community college teachers, with students enrolled thru our community college it is a good portion of the football roster, the basket ball roster, and a handful of chinese students?  This is prep english and reading....
 
2013-07-22 04:04:19 PM

Bslim: Hmmmm, let's see, human accomplishments: Splitting the atom, reaching the moon, curing diseases....mmmmmm pretty good, throwing and catching balls..wait what?


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-07-22 04:06:24 PM

This text is now purple: I just can't get myself worked up about the evil of some alumni writing a blank check to a college.


I'm assuming you know about this and are just being obtuse for kicks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_University_of_Miami_athletics_scan da l
 
2013-07-22 04:06:33 PM

semiotix: mentallo69: nuff said

[img.ksl.com image 850x478]

I love that Nevada's top-paid employee is a med school  plastic surgeon. It makes perfect sense! Either that, or the chair of UNLV's statistics department.


Why would they pay anyone extra at the statistics department when they have the International Gaming Institute? http://igi.unlv.edu/

\Plastic Surgery is as close to pure profit as you can find in medicine.
\\Everywhere I've ever been, boobies cost SOMEBODY a lot of money. Maybe not the person they were attached to but somebody.
 
2013-07-22 04:08:56 PM

kwame: This text is now purple: I just can't get myself worked up about the evil of some alumni writing a blank check to a college.

I'm assuming you know about this and are just being obtuse for kicks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_University_of_Miami_athletics_scan da l


So, outside of the Pell Grant fraud (fraud's fraud), what part of that works you up?
 
2013-07-22 04:09:12 PM

i.r.id10t: Which is why when I create accounts for our online learning management system for a group of "special" classes held at UF, taught by our community college teachers, with students enrolled thru our community college it is a good portion of the football roster, the basket ball roster, and a handful of chinese students?  This is prep english and reading....


Many football and basketball players come from underprivileged households or areas with general economic poverty.  Those areas don't tend to have the greatest school systems, nor those students the support at home to succeed at the K-12 level.  For many of them an athletic scholarship is the only way they're going to have the opportunity to attend college.

Some will take advantage of that, some won't.  All of the big schools and most of the mid-majors have academic tutoring programs specifically designed to help reach those students so that they can succeed.
 
2013-07-22 04:11:08 PM

This text is now purple: So, outside of the Pell Grant fraud (fraud's fraud), what part of that works you up?


I'm not worked up.  You asked how that's different from a research student getting paid to work.  This scenario will never happen for a research student.
 
2013-07-22 04:12:02 PM

The Third Man: TuteTibiImperes: The opportunity to earn an degree and graduate debt free is a huge incentive, and the majority of student athletes take advantage of that and go on to careers outside of professional sports.  Turning the NCAA into some minor-league for the NFL and NCAA would be a disservice to the vast majority of student athletes.

You obviously aren't aware of the dirty secret of athletic scholarships:  most of them aren't full-ride any more.  More and more schools are taking their scholarship limit, especially in the "Olympic sports", and breaking them into half-scholarships for twice as many kids.  And before you say "well at least they're getting something", remember that they still have to follow NCAA rules which pretty much mean they can't even get so much as a free sandwich at a student event without the school being hit with "extra benefits" claims.  A lot of the half-scholarship athletes would be better off just going through regular financial aid.  Hell, at our school the "discount rate" is over 50% (i.e., the average student pays less than half of the tuition sticker price).


Exactly!
My daughter's scholarship for waterpolo was for books up to $500.00 per year. Coach used most of his scholarship money to get a  26 year old Chinese Olympian "freshman" and a Hungarian Olympian. Only those two got full scholarships. And then they want players to take lighter loads during season so you will end up on the 5 year plan anyway.
 
2013-07-22 04:12:10 PM

mentallo69: nuff said

[img.ksl.com image 850x478]


Nevada's is a joke, right?  Nah, probably makes sense now that I think about it.
 
2013-07-22 04:12:55 PM

kwame: This text is now purple: How is that different than being an NCAA athlete, except I made less money for my school than the football team did, and the NCAA didn't care that I was paid?

Because no boosters from other schools cared enough about you to offer to buy you a car or give your parents handfuls of cash.


What about a RealDoll?
 
2013-07-22 04:12:59 PM

scandalrag: semiotix: mentallo69: nuff said

[img.ksl.com image 850x478]

I love that Nevada's top-paid employee is a med school  plastic surgeon. It makes perfect sense! Either that, or the chair of UNLV's statistics department.

Why would they pay anyone extra at the statistics department when they have the International Gaming Institute? http://igi.unlv.edu/

\Plastic Surgery is as close to pure profit as you can find in medicine.
\\Everywhere I've ever been, boobies cost SOMEBODY a lot of money. Maybe not the person they were attached to but somebody.


You realize that plastic surgeons do more than boob jobs, right?  They repair cleft palates, perform skin grafts for burn patients, and help repair damage from traumatic and disfiguring injuries as well.
 
2013-07-22 04:15:28 PM
Professional sports are a profession, hence the word professional.  In any profession there is training involved.  Some universities and colleges offer said training in said areas.  I don't understand why we can't admit that to ourselves and offer degree programs for this.  Future architectural engineers don't have a "Business Administration" degree to prove they're working towards a career in engineering, so why do future NFL players?
 
2013-07-22 04:16:00 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Many football and basketball players come from underprivileged households or areas with general economic poverty. Those areas don't tend to have the greatest school systems, nor those students the support at home to succeed at the K-12 level. For many of them an athletic scholarship is the only way they're going to have the opportunity to attend college.


So link the scholarship money to a targeted region and academic criteria.  Or select the kind of underprivileged kids that you want and do some interviews.  If anyone is being malserved by this train wreck of a system that has evolved it is poor minority kids who are being taught that the way out is by way of the NCAA and not by actual learning.  We might as well buy them a parcel of lottery tickets.
 
2013-07-22 04:17:33 PM

forresttriax: My daughter's scholarship for waterpolo was for books up to $500.00 per year. Coach used most of his scholarship money to get a 26 year old Chinese Olympian "freshman" and a Hungarian Olympian. Only those two got full scholarships. And then they want players to take lighter loads during season so you will end up on the 5 year plan anyway.


If only there was some way to go to a different university.
 
2013-07-22 04:19:50 PM
forresttriax:
Exactly!
My daughter's scholarship for waterpolo was for books up to $500.00 per year. Coach used most of his scholarship money to get a  26 year old Chinese Olympian "freshman" and a Hungarian Olympian. Only those two got full scholarships. And then they want players to take lighter loads during season so you will end up on the 5 year plan anyway.


Athletes in non-revenue sports don't always have it easy, but it also depends on the school.  Some try to field as many sports as they can, some focus on the ones they can fully fund.  Oddly enough oftentimes female athletes end up with more scholarship opportunities in non-revenue sports because they school has to find a way to balance the huge number of football scholarships (FBS - 85, FCS - up to 63, D2 - up to 36) and still maintain Title IX compliance.

A lot of schools have cut men's teams entirely to help make the budget and ease the Title IX compliance issues - Wrestling is oftentimes a victim because it's a men's only sport that doesn't make revenue on its own.
 
2013-07-22 04:24:46 PM

theurge14: Professional sports are a profession, hence the word professional.  In any profession there is training involved.  Some universities and colleges offer said training in said areas.  I don't understand why we can't admit that to ourselves and offer degree programs for this.  Future architectural engineers don't have a "Business Administration" degree to prove they're working towards a career in engineering, so why do future NFL players?


I'll give you that architecture has had its highs and lows in the past few years, but I don't think we're seeing an average architectural career of a little less than seven years before they're out of their company (even factoring in the ones who get past the probationary period).  Nor, do I see every architect applying to the same architectural company which holds a monopoly on the industry in the nation.  Nor is every other architectural company outside of the country so incompatible with the one in the country that the architects have few options..
 
2013-07-22 04:27:17 PM
 
2013-07-22 04:28:26 PM

kwame: forresttriax: My daughter's scholarship for waterpolo was for books up to $500.00 per year. Coach used most of his scholarship money to get a 26 year old Chinese Olympian "freshman" and a Hungarian Olympian. Only those two got full scholarships. And then they want players to take lighter loads during season so you will end up on the 5 year plan anyway.

If only there was some way to go to a different university.


That's precisely what she has done. Transferred to a D2 school where there are no athletic scholarships but was offered a reasonable (1/2 tuition) academic scholarship.
 
2013-07-22 04:28:45 PM

pueblonative: I don't think we're seeing an average architectural career of a little less than seven years before they're out of their company


What about the average lifetime salary of an engineer compared to that of a seven year run in the NFL?

pueblonative: Nor, do I see every architect applying to the same architectural company which holds a monopoly on the industry in the nation.


Like the Canadian league and Arena league and every college and high school coaching position in the country?

pueblonative: Nor is every other architectural company outside of the country so incompatible with the one in the country that the architects have few options..


That's just silly.
 
2013-07-22 04:29:23 PM

forresttriax: That's precisely what she has done. Transferred to a D2 school where there are no athletic scholarships but was offered a reasonable (1/2 tuition) academic scholarship.


Good for her (and you) and best of luck to your daughter in school.
 
2013-07-22 04:43:28 PM

kwame: pueblonative: I don't think we're seeing an average architectural career of a little less than seven years before they're out of their company

What about the average lifetime salary of an engineer compared to that of a seven year run in the NFL?

You want to compare the average lifetime salary of an engineer vs an NFL football player?  Okay, but let's factor in the health care costs too

. seems that those average seven year careers aren't paying the docs like they used to.


pueblonative: Nor, do I see every architect applying to the same architectural company which holds a monopoly on the industry in the nation.

Like the Canadian league and Arena league and every college and high school coaching position in the country?


Apparently the word nation confused you, seeing as how the CFL hasn't had any American teams since the turn of the century.  As far as the AFL, you're seriously going to propose that a league that's folded and pays an average of $31K to $80K is an economic competitor with a league that pays an average of $770K?   I guess you are, since you're ready to compare it to coaching the local high school team.


pueblonative: Nor is every other architectural company outside of the country so incompatible with the one in the country that the architects have few options..

That's just silly.


Yeah, It's silly that we call a sport football that has jack and shiat to do with kicking the ball the majority of the time yet the sport that everybody else in the world plays that does involve feet touching balls (back off Rex Ryan) we call soccer.
 
2013-07-22 04:58:00 PM

kwame: This text is now purple: So, outside of the Pell Grant fraud (fraud's fraud), what part of that works you up?

I'm not worked up. You asked how that's different from a research student getting paid to work. This scenario will never happen for a research student.


That's The Best Kind of Correct (r), seeing as grad researchers aren't eligible for Pell Grants. But do you think federal grant fraud never happens with grad students?
 
2013-07-22 05:00:58 PM

pueblonative: Yeah, It's silly that we call a sport football that has jack and shiat to do with kicking the ball the majority of the time yet the sport that everybody else in the world plays that does involve feet touching balls (back off Rex Ryan) we call soccer.


Rugby, gridiron, australian-rules, 7-on-7, and soccer are all footballs. (soccer -- association football).

The name comes not because it was played with the feet, but because it was played on foot. This distinguishes it from ball sports like polo. It helps to remember how old football is.
 
2013-07-22 05:04:30 PM

rjakobi: gameshowhost: TuteTibiImperes: markie_farkie: Why aren't college sports programs like basketball and football just declared Pro Minor Leagues, receive funding from the NBA and NFL, and all the students are exempt from normal curriculum, and instead receive life coaching, financial management coaching, and other relevant training?

The pretense that college athletics are some sort of amateur competition just to earn glory for their school is so completely false it's ridiculous.

For most college athletes the reason they play is for love of the game, or because playing for the school was their ticket to a free education.  The vast majority of college athletes, including football and basketball players, will never play professionally.  Even at the biggest sports schools the majority of the athletes know they aren't headed for the pros, and the percentage that have a chance to play professionally just goes down as you go through the mid-major conferences to the minor conferences and then into D2, D3, and the NAIA.

The opportunity to earn an degree and graduate debt free is a huge incentive, and the majority of student athletes take advantage of that and go on to careers outside of professional sports.  Turning the NCAA into some minor-league for the NFL and NCAA would be a disservice to the vast majority of student athletes.

NCAA hoops/football are already minor leagues for NBA/NFL.  If fans really gave a shiat about all this, they'd demand that the NFL and NBA invest in their own sports and produce their own robust, stratified, minor league systems like the NHL and MLB have had for so long.  NFL/NBA have been suckling off the teats of the universities, refusing to provide their own supply for the ridiculous demand for post-h.s., pre-professional basketball and football.  Big business loves its socialism.

So what you are saying is that mass murder is our only answer?


Well. Just ethnic cleansing.
 
2013-07-22 05:05:51 PM
Then we'd all watch "football", which in those days was called "baseball".
 
2013-07-22 05:19:05 PM

This text is now purple: pueblonative: Yeah, It's silly that we call a sport football that has jack and shiat to do with kicking the ball the majority of the time yet the sport that everybody else in the world plays that does involve feet touching balls (back off Rex Ryan) we call soccer.

Rugby, gridiron, australian-rules, 7-on-7, and soccer are all footballs. (soccer -- association football).

The name comes not because it was played with the feet, but because it was played on foot. This distinguishes it from ball sports like polo. It helps to remember how old football is.


Interesting bit of information there, I'll have to bookmark it.  Point being, however, is that the skills gained in one form of football (gridiron football) are not easily  transferred to the others. I'm not saying that football players are klutzes, but they would go up against people who have been practicing soccer (or basketball, or whatever) for most of their lives.  The other options mentioned up above constitute a serious decrease in income, a move to a different country, or both.  And that's what happens when you do manage to land a job in your chosen profession that can pay the bills.  Like the NCAA ad goes, most college athletes become a professional in something OTHER than their chosen sport.  Putting together a "Professional Sports" degree program would basically be devoting university funds to something that may see one or two success stories per year and leave the rest with a degree that ends up being worthless to the rest.
 
2013-07-22 05:23:48 PM

This text is now purple: That's The Best Kind of Correct (r), seeing as grad researchers aren't eligible for Pell Grants. But do you think federal grant fraud never happens with grad students?


Oh, I'm sure it happens.

You know, I overlooked something I really should have caught right from the start.  You said grad student research, and that pretty much ends every discussion about how it's different.  That was my bad.
 
2013-07-22 05:46:38 PM

TuteTibiImperes: You realize that plastic surgeons do more than boob jobs, right?  They repair cleft palates, perform skin grafts for burn patients, and help repair damage from traumatic and disfiguring injuries as well.


And yet, since it's Nevada, you got the joke.
 
2013-07-22 05:50:07 PM

fireclown: This text is now purple: Rebuttal:

I was paid as a grad student to be a researcher, which was basically employment as a minor league engineer on behalf of some external industry company who out-sourced research to my prof.

How is that different than being an NCAA athlete, except I made less money for my school than the football team did, and the NCAA didn't care that I was paid?

It is different because educating researchers is the job of a University, and producing football players is not.


Why not?  Universities produce all form of entertainers, from musicians, to actors, to authors and artists and dancers.  Why is producing a football player any less worthy?
 
2013-07-22 05:51:52 PM

johnsoninca: I wonder why this wa$n't an i$$ue when the Univer$ity of Phoenix won the naming right$ to the $tadium where the Fie$ta Bowl i$ played.


The Fiesta Bowl made a long-term commitment to the Arizona Tourism and Sports Authority to host their annual game in that Stadium. This long-term contract was one of the reasons the voters of Arizona agreed to finance the Stadium in the first place.

The Apollo Group (the owners of the University of Phoenix) owning the naming rights to the Stadium is their way to tell the NCAA "f*** you".. and this leaves the NCAA with three options: STFU (not!), take their ball and their Bowl elsewhere (ha!)...  or try to get as much money as possible from the AzTSA and the Arizona Cardinals (which is what they're doing).
 
2013-07-22 06:28:28 PM

johnsoninca: I wonder why this wa$n't an i$$ue when the Univer$ity of Phoenix won the naming right$ to the $tadium where the Fie$ta Bowl i$ played.


Because the alternative was "Pink Taco". I shiat you not.
 
2013-07-22 06:43:59 PM

UNC_Samurai: johnsoninca: I wonder why this wa$n't an i$$ue when the Univer$ity of Phoenix won the naming right$ to the $tadium where the Fie$ta Bowl i$ played.

Because the alternative was "Pink Taco". I shiat you not.


Also, because the Pac 12 and the NCAA don't have control over the Fiesta Bowl or that stadium.  The stadium is owned by the Arizona Sports and Tourism Authority, and the Fiesta Bowl is its own entity, not related to or controlled by the NCAA.
 
2013-07-22 07:00:29 PM

markie_farkie: Why aren't college sports programs like basketball and football just declared Pro Minor Leagues, receive funding from the NBA and NFL, and all the students are exempt from normal curriculum, and instead receive life coaching, financial management coaching, and other relevant training?

The pretense that college athletics are some sort of amateur competition just to earn glory for their school is so completely false it's ridiculous.


For the same reason health insurance is run through your employer. It was an idea that made sense 50+ years and today the established and entrenched parties in power / position to profit will do anything they can to keep the "status quo" even though it's antiquated and makes no farking sense.

See also: Our tax code
 
2013-07-22 08:45:32 PM

kwame: This text is now purple: How is that different than being an NCAA athlete, except I made less money for my school than the football team did, and the NCAA didn't care that I was paid?

Because no boosters from other schools cared enough about you to offer to buy you a car or give your parents handfuls of cash.


Imagine a world where boosters throw money at the university to have the most awesome research program EVAR.
 
2013-07-22 09:03:00 PM
Of you want college age athletes to be paid, start a farking amateur league and quit whining about why the NCAA doesn't do something they will never ever do.
 
2013-07-22 09:24:53 PM

revrendjim: kwame: This text is now purple: How is that different than being an NCAA athlete, except I made less money for my school than the football team did, and the NCAA didn't care that I was paid?

Because no boosters from other schools cared enough about you to offer to buy you a car or give your parents handfuls of cash.

Imagine a world where boosters throw money at the university to have the most awesome research program EVAR.


Various academic programs routinely get private donations.  Athletic programs are one of the major ways that schools network with and maintain relationships with those donors.

I was in the band at my school, and part of the game day routine was marching over to the president's mansion and playing the fight song and a couple other various tunes for the crown of various donors and other bigwigs he assembled there for brunch before every game.  It was always a who's-who of rich alumni, philanthropists, CEOs, and assorted politically connected individuals.  We'd play our tunes, then jump in the buses to get taken down to the stadium to entertain the tailgating fans, they'd drink their mimosas while he'd schmooze them for cash and then always have a collection of them in his luxury box on the 50 yard line.
 
2013-07-22 09:50:39 PM
There are no Division I football schools that are non for profit.
 
2013-07-22 10:12:16 PM
What if there were pro leagues for athletes betweeen 18 and 22 that do not want to go to college. every player gets 100,000 per year. you cvannot play untill you are 18 after june first, and have to stop playing in the league when you turn 22 bu june 1st.
 
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