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(BBC)   Six lessons Detroit could learn from other cities. "Don't put your football team in the hands of a complete moron" strangely absent   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 119
    More: Interesting, Detroit, squatters, Allegheny County, G20 summit, Dan Kildee, University of Pittsburgh, Industrial Revolution  
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5537 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Jul 2013 at 12:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-22 12:39:37 PM
Detroit seems like it's just one Tina Turner short of a full-blown Thunderdome.
 
2013-07-22 12:53:16 PM
FTFA: "The area looks a lot better than it did in 2008 when she took office, says Tarpley, who knocks on doors and tells residents to cut their grass when it looks unsightly. Those who don't comply get a visit from a council lawnmower and have to pay the costs."

fark you counselor coont, I'm not paying shiat for that "service"

I also live in an apartment in Arizona but that's a different story altogether.
 
2013-07-22 12:53:32 PM

FourDirections: Detroit seems like it's just one Tina Turner short of a full-blown Thunderdome.


they got rid of the white guy who wanted to run for mayor, so also no "who run Bartertown" moment.

/ dont know nothin bout no goddam krugerrands!
 
2013-07-22 12:53:45 PM
"It's Mom's fault..."

images.rottentomatoes.com
 
2013-07-22 12:55:48 PM
FTFA: When the steel industry collapsed, the instinct of economic leaders in Pittsburgh was to reach out to other industries that could replace these kinds of jobs on a large scale, says Madison. The goal was more big factories making televisions or cars, a magic bullet solution.
But these are very competitive industries and most of the investment in these areas has gone to Asia or cheaper parts of the US, he says.



It kills me how blatantly obvious this is to the lay person. It's right up there with cities that offer obscene tax breaks to land corporate relocations. Look, dumbasses, if the company was willing to move once, it'll do so again as soon as it gets a better offer/when you tax breaks expire (and they can't extort more out of you), so you'll never see a net benefit.
 
2013-07-22 12:56:24 PM
"Don't make fun of Detroit; them folks livin' in Mad Max times."  -- Moe, The Simpsons.

I moved away from Detroit about 15 years ago and even at that time buildings were being abandoned at a faster rate than they could be torn down.

I worked in the actual city and recall having to pay Detroit income tax, along with state and federal tax.  That does not entice people.

I worked as a computer programmer at a small firm.  We parked our cars in a lot with an armed guard and razorwire topped 12' tall fences.  I remember going to Wendy's for lunch and seeing two days later that it had burned to the ground.

All over I saw tattoo parlors, pawn shops and shops advertising "Checks Cashed; No ID Required!".

Missing from the BBC's list is the single most important thing Detroit can do to recover: Make it safe to do business there.

If that means shrinking the city, fine.  It's done.  It's gone.  But whatever is growing in the remnants --make it SAFE.
 
2013-07-22 12:57:56 PM
They have a football team?
 
2013-07-22 12:59:17 PM

Carousel Beast: It kills me how blatantly obvious this is to the lay person. It's right up there with cities that offer obscene tax breaks to land corporate relocations. Look, dumbasses, if the company was willing to move once, it'll do so again as soon as it gets a better offer/when you tax breaks expire (and they can't extort more out of you), so you'll never see a net benefit.


It's called "Smokestack Chasing" for a reason. It was the major form of economic development throughout the 80s in Rust Belt cities. It was also the basis for the movie Gung Ho, with Michael Keaton.
 
2013-07-22 12:59:50 PM

Carousel Beast: FTFA: When the steel industry collapsed, the instinct of economic leaders in Pittsburgh was to reach out to other industries that could replace these kinds of jobs on a large scale, says Madison. The goal was more big factories making televisions or cars, a magic bullet solution.
But these are very competitive industries and most of the investment in these areas has gone to Asia or cheaper parts of the US, he says.


It kills me how blatantly obvious this is to the lay person. It's right up there with cities that offer obscene tax breaks to land corporate relocations. Look, dumbasses, if the company was willing to move once, it'll do so again as soon as it gets a better offer/when you tax breaks expire (and they can't extort more out of you), so you'll never see a net benefit.


Same applies to sports stadiums.
 
2013-07-22 12:59:58 PM

Carousel Beast: FTFA: When the steel industry collapsed, the instinct of economic leaders in Pittsburgh was to reach out to other industries that could replace these kinds of jobs on a large scale, says Madison. The goal was more big factories making televisions or cars, a magic bullet solution.
But these are very competitive industries and most of the investment in these areas has gone to Asia or cheaper parts of the US, he says.


It kills me how blatantly obvious this is to the lay person. It's right up there with cities that offer obscene tax breaks to land corporate relocations. Look, dumbasses, if the company was willing to move once, it'll do so again as soon as it gets a better offer/when you tax breaks expire (and they can't extort more out of you), so you'll never see a net benefit.


What's that, Machiavelli? Never rely on horsed mercenaries, but only on a pike-armed citizen militia as the virtuous ancient Romans did?
 
2013-07-22 01:03:00 PM
"Trees don't pay taxes" is the mantra of some opponents to demolition" -TFA
Yeah well neither do most of the current residents of the city. At least trees would benefit the environment.
 
2013-07-22 01:06:16 PM
My dad grew up in Pittsburgh (in the not so nice area of East McKeesport) so going to visit family there as a child was always interesting. There are still some crap areas like all cities (North Braddock being one area where I still have family) - but as a whole I agree with the writer that it is an example city. What is happening to Detroit now should have happened there about 15 years ago. It really is a pretty city, if it weren't for the yinzers it might be livable.
 
2013-07-22 01:07:11 PM
#1 Demolish derelict buildings

They've been trying to do that for decades. The cost, and the outrageous number of decrepit homes and buildings makes the job overwhelming.
 
2013-07-22 01:07:20 PM

neuroflare: FTFA: "The area looks a lot better than it did in 2008 when she took office, says Tarpley, who knocks on doors and tells residents to cut their grass when it looks unsightly. Those who don't comply get a visit from a council lawnmower and have to pay the costs."

fark you counselor coont, I'm not paying shiat for that "service"


Then cut your damned grass. People biatch and moan about HOAs, but a good HOA maintains property values. A great one (rare, I know) maintains property values AND a reasonable amount of individualism.
 
2013-07-22 01:08:37 PM

Carousel Beast: FTFA: When the steel industry collapsed, the instinct of economic leaders in Pittsburgh was to reach out to other industries that could replace these kinds of jobs on a large scale, says Madison. The goal was more big factories making televisions or cars, a magic bullet solution.
But these are very competitive industries and most of the investment in these areas has gone to Asia or cheaper parts of the US, he says.


It kills me how blatantly obvious this is to the lay person. It's right up there with cities that offer obscene tax breaks to land corporate relocations. Look, dumbasses, if the company was willing to move once, it'll do so again as soon as it gets a better offer/when you tax breaks expire (and they can't extort more out of you), so you'll never see a net benefit.


The city will still see a benefit even if the company never pays taxes. If State Farm moved its 15,000 jobs from Bloomington IL to Phoenix AZ the city would boom from that due to new houses being built and the taxes from shopping and property owned. Illinois is very worried that this may happen with a few of its large companies and any city would be stupid not to try to attract a State Farm, Caterpillar, or Boeing away from Illinois as we slide into owing more than 4x's our annual revenue to pensioners and other creditors.

Should a company not be able to move due to taxation? Illinois raised taxes by 66% 3 years ago and are looking to raise taxes again. Why stay?
 
2013-07-22 01:10:17 PM
Subby, that would require other cities to have learned that lesson themselves in order to teach Detroit.
 
2013-07-22 01:12:26 PM

Demonrats: The city will still see a benefit even if the company never pays taxes. If State Farm moved its 15,000 jobs from Bloomington IL to Phoenix AZ the city would boom from that due to new houses being built and the taxes from shopping and property owned. Illinois is very worried that this may happen with a few of its large companies and any city would be stupid not to try to attract a State Farm, Caterpillar, or Boeing away from Illinois as we slide into owing more than 4x's our annual revenue to pensioners and other creditors.


A company with no incentive to stay beyond the tax rate will be gone as soon as a better option comes along. With that goes the ancillary jobs and population, meaning more vacant storefronts, more vacant housing, and a collapse of a tax base, forcing the fewer remaining residents to prop up what's left.
 
2013-07-22 01:13:43 PM

abfalter: "Don't make fun of Detroit; them folks livin' in Mad Max times."  -- Moe, The Simpsons.

I moved away from Detroit about 15 years ago and even at that time buildings were being abandoned at a faster rate than they could be torn down.

I worked in the actual city and recall having to pay Detroit income tax, along with state and federal tax.  That does not entice people.

I worked as a computer programmer at a small firm.  We parked our cars in a lot with an armed guard and razorwire topped 12' tall fences.  I remember going to Wendy's for lunch and seeing two days later that it had burned to the ground.

All over I saw tattoo parlors, pawn shops and shops advertising "Checks Cashed; No ID Required!".

Missing from the BBC's list is the single most important thing Detroit can do to recover: Make it safe to do business there.

If that means shrinking the city, fine.  It's done.  It's gone.  But whatever is growing in the remnants --make it SAFE
.


Get rid of black people

You couldve summed it up as such. I live in lansing and it isnt a whole lot better.
 
2013-07-22 01:13:58 PM

jjorsett: Carousel Beast: FTFA: When the steel industry collapsed, the instinct of economic leaders in Pittsburgh was to reach out to other industries that could replace these kinds of jobs on a large scale, says Madison. The goal was more big factories making televisions or cars, a magic bullet solution.
But these are very competitive industries and most of the investment in these areas has gone to Asia or cheaper parts of the US, he says.


It kills me how blatantly obvious this is to the lay person. It's right up there with cities that offer obscene tax breaks to land corporate relocations. Look, dumbasses, if the company was willing to move once, it'll do so again as soon as it gets a better offer/when you tax breaks expire (and they can't extort more out of you), so you'll never see a net benefit.

Same applies to sports stadiums.


They both cater to the "look at all the jobs we created" crowd, though.

There's a big building in downtown San Jose built by a local technology company. The city gave them incredible tax breaks and "expedited permitting" if they'd build it downtown, so the company agreed. The mayor said that part of the reason for the tax breaks was all of the business the employees would bring to downtown restaurants and services. Well, the company's expedited permitting included a private parking garage, so no money in city coffers from the extra traffic into and out of the city, and a cafeteria that rivaled any restaurant the typical cube worker could afford, at prices well below market value. So all the city got was a nice building added to its skyline.
 
2013-07-22 01:14:08 PM

neuroflare: FTFA: "The area looks a lot better than it did in 2008 when she took office, says Tarpley, who knocks on doors and tells residents to cut their grass when it looks unsightly. Those who don't comply get a visit from a council lawnmower and have to pay the costs."

fark you counselor coont, I'm not paying shiat for that "service"

I also live in an apartment in Arizona but that's a different story altogether.


This isn't a busybody situation in Detroit's nice neighborhoods.  You have to fight to keep it nice. Don't let the ratty-looking stuff start, even in minor ways, to avoid the fall of yet another neighborhood.
 
2013-07-22 01:14:09 PM

p the boiler: My dad grew up in Pittsburgh (in the not so nice area of East McKeesport) so going to visit family there as a child was always interesting. There are still some crap areas like all cities (North Braddock being one area where I still have family) - but as a whole I agree with the writer that it is an example city. What is happening to Detroit now should have happened there about 15 years ago. It really is a pretty city, if it weren't for the yinzers it might be livable.


What's a nubian yinzer?
 
2013-07-22 01:14:32 PM

Carousel Beast: FTFA: When the steel industry collapsed, the instinct of economic leaders in Pittsburgh was to reach out to other industries that could replace these kinds of jobs on a large scale, says Madison. The goal was more big factories making televisions or cars, a magic bullet solution.
But these are very competitive industries and most of the investment in these areas has gone to Asia or cheaper parts of the US, he says.

It kills me how blatantly obvious this is to the lay person. It's right up there with cities that offer obscene tax breaks to land corporate relocations. Look, dumbasses, if the company was willing to move once, it'll do so again as soon as it gets a better offer/when you tax breaks expire (and they can't extort more out of you), so you'll never see a net benefit.


Folks around Pittsburgh seemed to have learned that lesson, but it was expensive - look up the phrase "Volkswagen New Stanton."
/ subby
 
2013-07-22 01:14:34 PM
Detroit's actually a pretty decent mid-sized city. It's just surrounded by a much larger wasteland. But don't take my word for it--ask the rich suburbanites who work and play there.

One of the more intriguing propositions I've heard is that Detroit should be given the power to swallow up some or all of its adjacent suburbs, which would overnight give it the tax base to have a fighting chance at maintaining basic services. The region as a whole isn't that poor at all, on a per-capita basis. There are obvious pros and cons to this sort of approach, and probably many far less obvious pros and cons once you got into the details. But I kind of hope it gets some legs, because the pissing and screaming that would result would be epic.

/it won't get legs
 
2013-07-22 01:16:03 PM

mithras_angel: What's a yinzer?


Someone who gets a jumbo sammich dahn on the Sahside, n'at.
 
2013-07-22 01:16:30 PM

Demonrats: Carousel Beast: FTFA: When the steel industry collapsed, the instinct of economic leaders in Pittsburgh was to reach out to other industries that could replace these kinds of jobs on a large scale, says Madison. The goal was more big factories making televisions or cars, a magic bullet solution.
But these are very competitive industries and most of the investment in these areas has gone to Asia or cheaper parts of the US, he says.


It kills me how blatantly obvious this is to the lay person. It's right up there with cities that offer obscene tax breaks to land corporate relocations. Look, dumbasses, if the company was willing to move once, it'll do so again as soon as it gets a better offer/when you tax breaks expire (and they can't extort more out of you), so you'll never see a net benefit.

The city will still see a benefit even if the company never pays taxes. If State Farm moved its 15,000 jobs from Bloomington IL to Phoenix AZ the city would boom from that due to new houses being built and the taxes from shopping and property owned. Illinois is very worried that this may happen with a few of its large companies and any city would be stupid not to try to attract a State Farm, Caterpillar, or Boeing away from Illinois as we slide into owing more than 4x's our annual revenue to pensioners and other creditors.

Should a company not be able to move due to taxation? Illinois raised taxes by 66% 3 years ago and are looking to raise taxes again. Why stay?


I never stated anything about a company moving, but about the conditions they extort from areas they may want to move to.

Even in your example, the boom would insignificant next to the bust once SF decided to raise stakes and go somewhere else - perhaps to Texas, or Tennessee, or even Florida. Now you have 15k empty houses, service businesses with no available client base, overbuilt infrastructure without a tax base to maintain it, etc. - and again, it depends on the circumstances, because the scenario might be survivable if they could properly tax SF when it moved and during its run, but if the city has signed away rights to that money and is left with absolutely no buffer come departure time, it'll be straight-up ruination.

jjorsett: Same applies to sports stadiums.


Yep. I voted against state financing for the Titans when they moved from Huston. My feeling was "where else are you going to go?" because we had the only viable population and TV market available for them to move to. We held the cards, not Bud, and our governor tripped over himself to give away everything possible.
 
2013-07-22 01:17:43 PM

FourDirections: Detroit seems like it's just one Tina Turner short of a full-blown Thunderdome.


media.mlive.com

Lay off Detroit, them people's living in Mad Max times.
 
2013-07-22 01:18:03 PM
Quit spending what you dont have also absent
 
2013-07-22 01:18:27 PM

doctorguilty: Folks around Pittsburgh seemed to have learned that lesson, but it was expensive - look up the phrase "Volkswagen New Stanton."


More or less.
 
2013-07-22 01:20:30 PM

doctorguilty: Carousel Beast: FTFA: When the steel industry collapsed, the instinct of economic leaders in Pittsburgh was to reach out to other industries that could replace these kinds of jobs on a large scale, says Madison. The goal was more big factories making televisions or cars, a magic bullet solution.
But these are very competitive industries and most of the investment in these areas has gone to Asia or cheaper parts of the US, he says.

It kills me how blatantly obvious this is to the lay person. It's right up there with cities that offer obscene tax breaks to land corporate relocations. Look, dumbasses, if the company was willing to move once, it'll do so again as soon as it gets a better offer/when you tax breaks expire (and they can't extort more out of you), so you'll never see a net benefit.

Folks around Pittsburgh seemed to have learned that lesson, but it was expensive - look up the phrase "Volkswagen New Stanton."
/ subby


I was in Pittsburgh a decade ago and was very impressed by the town overall. Nice layout, lots of greenery, well-kept...hell, it was almost pleasant, except for all the Steeler fans.

;)
 
2013-07-22 01:20:36 PM

Demonrats: Carousel Beast: FTFA: When the steel industry collapsed, the instinct of economic leaders in Pittsburgh was to reach out to other industries that could replace these kinds of jobs on a large scale, says Madison. The goal was more big factories making televisions or cars, a magic bullet solution.
But these are very competitive industries and most of the investment in these areas has gone to Asia or cheaper parts of the US, he says.


It kills me how blatantly obvious this is to the lay person. It's right up there with cities that offer obscene tax breaks to land corporate relocations. Look, dumbasses, if the company was willing to move once, it'll do so again as soon as it gets a better offer/when you tax breaks expire (and they can't extort more out of you), so you'll never see a net benefit.

The city will still see a benefit even if the company never pays taxes. If State Farm moved its 15,000 jobs from Bloomington IL to Phoenix AZ the city would boom from that due to new houses being built and the taxes from shopping and property owned. Illinois is very worried that this may happen with a few of its large companies and any city would be stupid not to try to attract a State Farm, Caterpillar, or Boeing away from Illinois as we slide into owing more than 4x's our annual revenue to pensioners and other creditors.

Should a company not be able to move due to taxation? Illinois raised taxes by 66% 3 years ago and are looking to raise taxes again. Why stay?


you'd be more credible with a different screen name to start with

also, Chicago will be ok with a new start-up created every other day  - the pension issue is real though and if you think Illinois is the only state that is or will be facing this issue you are not thinking clearly - also, if Illinois didn't have to prop up states like Arizona with our Federal support, maybe we would have more money for our own state issues.
 
2013-07-22 01:20:39 PM
Learn . . ., yeah, not likely.
 
2013-07-22 01:21:35 PM
Not just a stupid list, but poorly researched as Detroit has already been doing some of these suggestions:

1.Demolish derelict buildings...

Detroit has been happening for a long time.

2....and sell the land for $25
That's what has happened in Flint, Michigan, where the population is half what it was 50 years ago. In 2002, Flint-born Dan Kildee, now a congressman, set up a system there called land banks, which take ownership of derelict private properties.


Detroit has a land bank.

3. Accept that smaller can be better

I don't think anyone in Detroit thinks the cities population will ever rebound.

4. Build institutions
Pittsburgh is widely held up as a success story in reinvention, hosting the G20 summit in 2009, but it's cashing cheques that were written 50 years ago, says Professor Michael Madison from the University of Pittsburgh.

So Detroit needs to build a time machine?

5. Don't be trapped by history

Auto jobs left Detroit years ago; nobody thinks they're ever coming back.

6.Entice the right jobs

I really hate arm chair commentary like this. Of course a successful economy needs high skilled/high income earners, but attracting them to your city is a lot easier said than done. You cannot just offer a tax break and expect that Google will relocate 5,000 jobs.

If you want to know just how hard this is, look at what even NYC has to do. To "entice the right jobs" they're transforming Roosevelt Island into a technology park, which involves giving away the land and sinking $100 million of their own money into the project.
 
2013-07-22 01:22:03 PM

semiotix: Detroit's actually a pretty decent mid-sized city. It's just surrounded by a much larger wasteland. But don't take my word for it--ask the rich suburbanites who work and play there.

One of the more intriguing propositions I've heard is that Detroit should be given the power to swallow up some or all of its adjacent suburbs, which would overnight give it the tax base to have a fighting chance at maintaining basic services. The region as a whole isn't that poor at all, on a per-capita basis. There are obvious pros and cons to this sort of approach, and probably many far less obvious pros and cons once you got into the details. But I kind of hope it gets some legs, because the pissing and screaming that would result would be epic.

/it won't get legs




Hahaha, Detroit try to absorb Grosse Pointe? That'll be the farking day.

/take from the well off who worked hard to earn and give to the poor who've done nothing to deserve it
//has another name that ends with "ism"
 
2013-07-22 01:24:12 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: mithras_angel: What's a yinzer?

Someone who gets a jumbo sammich dahn on the Sahside, n'at.


this (my family included) - who the hell puts french fries on a sandwich - especially one with coleslaw?
 
2013-07-22 01:24:58 PM

teylix: abfalter: "Don't make fun of Detroit; them folks livin' in Mad Max times."  -- Moe, The Simpsons.

I moved away from Detroit about 15 years ago and even at that time buildings were being abandoned at a faster rate than they could be torn down.

I worked in the actual city and recall having to pay Detroit income tax, along with state and federal tax.  That does not entice people.

I worked as a computer programmer at a small firm.  We parked our cars in a lot with an armed guard and razorwire topped 12' tall fences.  I remember going to Wendy's for lunch and seeing two days later that it had burned to the ground.

All over I saw tattoo parlors, pawn shops and shops advertising "Checks Cashed; No ID Required!".

Missing from the BBC's list is the single most important thing Detroit can do to recover: Make it safe to do business there.

If that means shrinking the city, fine.  It's done.  It's gone.  But whatever is growing in the remnants --make it SAFE.

Get rid of black people

You couldve summed it up as such. I live in lansing and it isnt a whole lot better.


Ooooo you work for the isotope accelerator?! Awesome. I love the facility on campus. Cool stuff. I lived in a shiatty part of Lansing (off of Holmes and MLK) but I liked living there. CATA made life easier, too.

I live in lovely Detroit now. I actually enjoy it most of the time. But if they get rid of the DIA, I might freak the fark out.
 
2013-07-22 01:26:19 PM

semiotix: Detroit's actually a pretty decent mid-sized city. It's just surrounded by a much larger wasteland. But don't take my word for it--ask the rich suburbanites who work and play there.

One of the more intriguing propositions I've heard is that Detroit should be given the power to swallow up some or all of its adjacent suburbs, which would overnight give it the tax base to have a fighting chance at maintaining basic services. The region as a whole isn't that poor at all, on a per-capita basis. There are obvious pros and cons to this sort of approach, and probably many far less obvious pros and cons once you got into the details. But I kind of hope it gets some legs, because the pissing and screaming that would result would be epic.

/it won't get legs


Yep.  Either shrink or expand.

Downtown and Midtown are nice.  Suburbs are SUPER-rich (given COL), and are honestly probably the single best example of how to do low-density sprawling development right (and we can debate the merits of this back and forth, but it was really nice growing up where everyone had a big yard).  The problem is the (mostly abandoned) donut in the middle.  Whoever takes it over gets a giant albatross around their neck.
 
2013-07-22 01:26:32 PM
I have spent a lot of time in Detroit in the last few months.  I have to say, while the bad neighborhoods, rotting and burned out abandoned houses, and all the other horrible things you have heard about are mostly true, there is a lot of good there too.  The people that haven't left and you most commonly encounter on the street are genuinely friendly, and seem to really seriously want to bring their city back.  

And while there are still areas I won't go after dark, there are a lot of areas that are brimming with life.  Obviously around Comerica Park and Ford Field (Hot Taco is an awesome restaurant) but also a ton of places with awesome breweries and restaurants.  My brother keeps saying "beer will save Detroit," and I think he's right.  There's some awesome stuff out there.

/go to Motor City Brewing Works, and order the Ghettoblaster
//you'll thank me
 
2013-07-22 01:27:33 PM

Shadowknight: I have spent a lot of time in Detroit in the last few months.  I have to say, while the bad neighborhoods, rotting and burned out abandoned houses, and all the other horrible things you have heard about are mostly true, there is a lot of good there too.  The people that haven't left and you most commonly encounter on the street are genuinely friendly, and seem to really seriously want to bring their city back.  

And while there are still areas I won't go after dark, there are a lot of areas that are brimming with life.  Obviously around Comerica Park and Ford Field (Hot Taco is an awesome restaurant) but also a ton of places with awesome breweries and restaurants.  My brother keeps saying "beer will save Detroit," and I think he's right.  There's some awesome stuff out there.

/go to Motor City Brewing Works, and order the Ghettoblaster
//you'll thank me


This, this, thisy this this^
 
2013-07-22 01:28:19 PM

mithras_angel: What's a nubian yinzer?


A yinzer is someone who uses the word "yienz," which is a mid-Appalachian version of other second person plural pronouns like "youse" or "y'all." The closer one gets to Philadelphia, the more it sounds like "yuhs," while the closer one gets to the Adirondacks, the more it sounds like "youns."

Regional language variants: serious business.

/recovering yinzer
 
2013-07-22 01:28:32 PM
No mention of decades of rampant corruption, only some of which was prosecuted near the end (Kwame Kilstripperpatrick).  Vast amounts of money down the drain that way.
 
2013-07-22 01:29:36 PM

p the boiler: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: mithras_angel: What's a yinzer?

Someone who gets a jumbo sammich dahn on the Sahside, n'at.

this (my family included) - who the hell puts french fries on a sandwich - especially one with coleslaw?


People with good taste, presumably.
 
2013-07-22 01:30:07 PM
Except, Shadowknight, I drank enough Ghettoblaster to kill a kindergarten class and ended up at City Club on latex night. So...so there's that.

I'm still recovering from that experience.

Still love that beer, though.
 
2013-07-22 01:30:21 PM

semiotix: Detroit's actually a pretty decent mid-sized city. It's just surrounded by a much larger wasteland. But don't take my word for it--ask the rich suburbanites who work and play there.

One of the more intriguing propositions I've heard is that Detroit should be given the power to swallow up some or all of its adjacent suburbs, which would overnight give it the tax base to have a fighting chance at maintaining basic services. The region as a whole isn't that poor at all, on a per-capita basis. There are obvious pros and cons to this sort of approach, and probably many far less obvious pros and cons once you got into the details. But I kind of hope it gets some legs, because the pissing and screaming that would result would be epic.

/it won't get legs


There is a problem with that. People moved outside Detroit to escape the taxes yet still live near the city. Do that, and a lot of the people will move again, possibly to another city, and leave Detroit with more houses to tear down. Best way to attract people? Get rid of the taxes by getting rid of the outlandish costs they have.
 
2013-07-22 01:30:50 PM
Carousel Beast:
It kills me how blatantly obvious this is to the lay person. It's right up there with cities that offer obscene tax breaks to land corporate relocations. Look, dumbasses, if the company was willing to move once, it'll do so again as soon as it gets a better offer/when you tax breaks expire (and they can't extort more out of you), so you'll never see a net benefit.

Sometimes yes, and sometimes no.  Lots of companies get lured into out-of-the-way places like suburbs with tax credits because the towns hope they'll get comfy.  Then the CEO's get used to living there and won't move the company to a more commercially responsible place just because it will screw with their commutes and tee times.  Sears is a good example of this.  McDonald's, too.  There are many others.

Every time you see some big company with an address in BFE, it's probably because one or two CEOs have in-ground pools they just can't part with.
 
2013-07-22 01:30:52 PM
Shadowknight:
/go to Motor City Brewing Works, and order the Ghettoblaster
//you'll thank me


Thirded on this.  Should be illegal.
 
2013-07-22 01:31:03 PM

JohnAnnArbor: No mention of decades of rampant corruption, only some of which was prosecuted near the end (Kwame Kilstripperpatrick).  Vast amounts of money down the drain that way.


What do you think about Mike Duggan?
 
2013-07-22 01:32:25 PM

semiotix: One of the more intriguing propositions I've heard is that Detroit should be given the power to swallow up some or all of its adjacent suburbs, which would overnight give it the tax base to have a fighting chance at maintaining basic services.


Fun fact: at the turn of the last century, urban annexation was promoted as a way to "dilute the vote of the immigrant" in cities.
 
2013-07-22 01:33:27 PM

megarian: JohnAnnArbor: No mention of decades of rampant corruption, only some of which was prosecuted near the end (Kwame Kilstripperpatrick).  Vast amounts of money down the drain that way.

What do you think about Mike Duggan?


Not sure, given history with the county government, which itself has proven to be a corrupt money hole.
 
2013-07-22 01:33:57 PM

megarian: What do you think about Mike Duggan?


Ask yourself this simple question.... why would ANYONE want to be mayor of Detroit while under control of an EFM and heading into CH9 bankruptcy. I have yet to find a good answer to that question, and as such am skeptical of ALL of the candidates.
 
2013-07-22 01:33:58 PM
I'd suggest taking away the ability of the citizens to select any local government leader for the next two to three decades as a good start.
 
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