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(Buzzfeed)   Here's what happens at an Internet company when they show up with a FISA warrant and a little black box   (buzzfeed.com) divider line 45
    More: Scary, FISA, NSA, secret polices, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court  
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10640 clicks; posted to Geek » on 22 Jul 2013 at 2:06 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



45 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-22 02:07:41 PM
Wait, wasn't this the guy that was supposedly NOT allowing big brother in on his network?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-07-22 02:11:50 PM

StrangeQ: Wait, wasn't this the guy that was supposedly NOT allowing big brother in on his network?


Maybe he found out about the "complying with court orders isn't optional" bit.
 
2013-07-22 02:14:29 PM

StrangeQ: Wait, wasn't this the guy that was supposedly NOT allowing big brother in on his network?


The impression I had is that he is doing everything he can legally do, to keep big brother off his network.  These days, it wouldn't take much non-compliance before they'd come in with a SWAT team (if need be).
 
2013-07-22 02:19:41 PM
XMission!  That takes me back.  Many years ago XMission was one of the homebases for a lot of electronic music information, parts of it set up by the author of this article.  The other site was Hyperreal.
 
2013-07-22 02:23:33 PM
A benign website, unlike guns and ammo websites?

Because most terrorist activity flows though sites like terroristweaponsupply.com and ammoforallah.net
 
2013-07-22 02:28:36 PM

RickN99: A benign website, unlike guns and ammo websites?

Because most terrorist activity flows though sites like terroristweaponsupply.com and ammoforallah.net


I'm sad that ammoforallah.net didn't resolve.
 
2013-07-22 02:33:43 PM
XMission is an awesome ISP, even with the NSA cupping their balls thus.  They still host some stuff for me...oh.  Oh God.

/FakeDeathDyeHairCreateNewFarkLogon
 
2013-07-22 02:50:49 PM

Lochsteppe: XMission is an awesome ISP, even with the NSA cupping their balls thus.  They still host some stuff for me...oh.  Oh God.

/FakeDeathDyeHairCreateNewFarkLogon


www.adweek.com
 
2013-07-22 03:00:40 PM
So what happens if someone just happens to have a magnet in their pocket and walks by this 'black box' by accident?


Several times?
 
2013-07-22 03:14:19 PM
I farking hate buzzfeed links, yet I still click: 55 insane reasons doctors say will be deadly obvious to you. (slideshow)
 
2013-07-22 03:40:35 PM
"it would have looked a lot like the picture below - a typical, black, two-unit server, unremarkable among many others."

You know what else was unremarkable?
 
2013-07-22 03:45:43 PM

rhiannon: "it would have looked a lot like the picture below - a typical, black, two-unit server, unremarkable among many others."

You know what else was unremarkable?


large baking ovens?
 
2013-07-22 03:53:30 PM
Wouldn't the gag order itself be Unconstitutional?
 
2013-07-22 03:56:25 PM

rhiannon: "it would have looked a lot like the picture below - a typical, black, two-unit server, unremarkable among many others."

You know what else was unremarkable?


The back port?
 
2013-07-22 03:57:05 PM

redmid17: rhiannon: "it would have looked a lot like the picture below - a typical, black, two-unit server, unremarkable among many others."

You know what else was unremarkable?

large baking ovens?


No. But sorta close.
 
2013-07-22 03:59:20 PM

Warlordtrooper: Wouldn't the gag order itself be Unconstitutional?


It's just a goddamned piece of paper
 
2013-07-22 04:08:42 PM

rhiannon: redmid17: rhiannon: "it would have looked a lot like the picture below - a typical, black, two-unit server, unremarkable among many others."

You know what else was unremarkable?

large baking ovens?

No. But sorta close.


pesticides?
 
2013-07-22 04:08:49 PM
Sounds like Maddox should watch his step.
 
2013-07-22 04:38:48 PM

Warlordtrooper: Wouldn't the gag order itself be Unconstitutional?


Good luck fighting that one.

Actually, I thought at some point that even saying you had received a FISA warrant was not allowed.
 
2013-07-22 04:44:39 PM
So; what about this TOR node thingy mentioned in the article?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_%28anonymity_network%29
 
2013-07-22 04:47:02 PM
I wonder if any of these little black boxes have been damaged in a fire, stolen by copper thieves or accidentally sold on eBay? One would hope that generic 2U server didn't yield up its secrets too easily. I am sure people would be very interested in the contents.
 
2013-07-22 04:48:42 PM

The Incredible Sexual Egg: So what happens if someone just happens to have a magnet in their pocket and walks by this 'black box' by accident?


Several times?


Because the people running stuff like this are not gibbering morons?

You would probably be tracked down and have legal action taken upon you, if not declared a terroristic threat or a similar federal crime with nasty penalties, as well as assessed the entire cost of replacement including time.
 
2013-07-22 04:48:54 PM

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Warlordtrooper: Wouldn't the gag order itself be Unconstitutional?

Good luck fighting that one.

Actually, I thought at some point that even saying you had received a FISA warrant was not allowed.



They say that and threaten everyone.  But if a few people stand up (yes, I know...) they won't prosecute everyone.  This after the fact gag order crap always pissed me off every time I had to meet or brief the TLAs.  So I made a point of telling everyone I met.

If I work for you, or agree to something beforehand fine, but this 'oh and you can't tell anyone now that we've told you' crap needs to goto the rubbish bin of history.
 
2013-07-22 04:54:00 PM

jonny_q: RickN99: A benign website, unlike guns and ammo websites?

Because most terrorist activity flows though sites like terroristweaponsupply.com and ammoforallah.net

I'm sad that ammoforallah.net didn't resolve.


I'm squatting it.
Wanna buy it?
 
2013-07-22 06:03:08 PM
I wonder what would happen if you told them they couldn't power their box from your mains and they'd have to provide their own power source?
 
2013-07-22 06:04:30 PM
Oh, but I sure the Obama administration would NEVER do this when they didn't have to. I mean, that is what the Democrat fanbois on the politics tab tell me
 
2013-07-22 06:44:38 PM
the only website i know of on xmission is Maddox's site.
 
2013-07-22 06:47:28 PM

Krab: the only website i know of on xmission is Maddox's site.



I use it all the time for linux distros and sech.
 
2013-07-22 06:49:27 PM
Here's a FISA warrant.
Where's my copy ?
You can't have a copy.

Then it doesn't exist.
You must comply with this warrant !
What warrant ? It doesn't exist !

If he refused, in what public court would he be tried ?

We're charging you with not complying with this......thing..... that no one is allowed to see.
 
2013-07-22 07:11:13 PM
Utah website?
I wonder if there were any prominent Mormons who were making political headway in 2010.
 
2013-07-22 07:13:23 PM
berniex:
If he refused, in what public court would he be tried ?

If you still think they care about trying people in a public court, I have a bridge to sell you.
 
2013-07-22 09:15:15 PM
An IPS should create a webpage (before they are contacted with a FISA request) that lists every customer of the ISP.  Next to each is a status.  NO FISA REQUESTS

If a FISA request comes in and there is a gag order associated with it, the ISP would have to comply with the gag order and pull the status on that customer or the entire line itself.  Problem solved.
 
2013-07-22 09:23:24 PM

Benjimin_Dover: An IPS should create a webpage (before they are contacted with a FISA request) that lists every customer of the ISP.  Next to each is a status.  NO FISA REQUESTS

If a FISA request comes in and there is a gag order associated with it, the ISP would have to comply with the gag order and pull the status on that customer or the entire line itself.  Problem solved.


It's been tried.  A library did something similar.

I don't remember how it worked out.  Perhaps no one ever visited the library and the sign is still up.
 
2013-07-22 09:50:33 PM
Hmmm...was kinda guessing "bend over" but then realized "not TSA"
 
2013-07-22 09:50:34 PM
Hmmmm.....a pc running wireshark from a port mirrored port.  Pretty straight forward.  We do that at work occasionally to debug routing issues with our network traffic.
 
2013-07-22 09:59:14 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Utah website?
I wonder if there were any prominent Mormons who were making political headway in 2010.


Let me guess: Obama did it?
 
2013-07-22 10:28:01 PM

berniex: If he refused, in what public court would he be tried ?


He wouldn't. He'd be tried in a secret court [that doesn't exist], by a secret judge [who doesn't exist] found guilty [regardless] and sentenced to serve out three lifetimes in a secret prison facility [that also doesn't exist].
 
2013-07-23 01:29:19 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Utah website?
I wonder if there were any prominent Mormons who were making political headway in 2010.


No, there weren't.

See, Mitt didn't lose his family straw poll until Christmas break of 2010 and...

My God! Obama orchestrated it all by deep data mining!! Tagg's Pinterest page, Bapp's frustrated Craigslist searches, Ann's recipe for cookies on dowels!!!

I renounce my liberalism and weep as I now realize my greed for a free phone (which is totally sweet, by the way) has doomed us all!

/Off to play Candy Crush Saga.
 
2013-07-23 01:37:48 AM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: greed for a free phone


It was only free to you. Someone else had to actually pay for it. Weird, I know, but TANSTAAFP.
 
2013-07-23 03:59:55 AM
So the feds really give up when the object of their interest is a Tor node?
 
2013-07-23 05:11:26 AM

BarkingUnicorn: So the feds really give up when the object of their interest is a Tor node?


They don't have much option.  All they know is that IP address xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx accessed certain other IP addresses of interest.  But if it was ran through a TOR network, the trail basically ends at the exit node.

The only way to really get someone using TOR is a 2 part MTM attack - and you have to know who you are specifically looking at in the first place, and what you suspect them of viewing.  That means being in the middle of them and the TOR node they are connecting to, as well as between the TOR exit node and the address it would connect to.  Then you see the data that they send/receive - the timing and size of that data - so you can make a pretty good guess that is them on both ends.

Even that does not really work in the case that what they are viewing is an "onion site" (aka never really leaves the TOR network thus no exit nodes used) and all data is encrypted anyhow.  TOR was well designed to do what it does and this is why many government "professionals" transmit data using TOR themselves.

Now and then you do hear of cases where so and so was caught using TOR - framed as though TOR is broken(Hint: it isn't).  But in every case the reason they where caught had NOTHING to do with any weakness of TOR itself.  Our authorities would like to discourage its use by anyone but themselves - because it makes the authoritarian's job much harder.

You still do need to really know how TOR works to be secure using it though.
 
2013-07-23 08:52:26 AM
I've been a one man show with a pretty successful database hosting site for over 12 years.  250K people from all over the world.  I've hired people (in my real job) who said "really?  that was you?   I used that site in college!"

I'm probably just going to shut it down due to FISA concerns.   I don't need that headache.
 
2013-07-23 11:01:43 AM

jjorsett: I wonder what would happen if you told them they couldn't power their box from your mains and they'd have to provide their own power source?


According to the article, many companies (it specifically mentions Google), just send the government a bill for the power + labor it takes to implement their black boxes and the government willingly pays. So I'm sure they'd be willing to have more mains added or do whatever infrastructure upgrades they'd need to get their hardware in there.
 
2013-07-23 12:09:31 PM
#1  Request warrant-judge-signed gag orders for EVERY employee.
#2  If an employee refuses to sign a gag order, refuse the installation.  You cannot fire an employee for failing to sign a gag order.
#3  Force the agent to sign a per-slot usage contract for hosting their server.
#3a  File a demand that your facility be guarded by a Federal Law Enforcement agent for your and your employees' protection.
#4  Immediately report the violation of a citizen's rights to a local federal judge.
#5  Install your OWN recording unit and make your OWN copy of everything recorded by the unit, to present to the violated citizen through the local federal judge at the completion of the FISA action.
#6  Defend the constitution.  FISA has NO AUTHORITY INSIDE THE UNITED STATES.  (the internet is NOT "inside" the united states)
 
2013-07-23 09:05:56 PM

DemDave: jjorsett: I wonder what would happen if you told them they couldn't power their box from your mains and they'd have to provide their own power source?

According to the article, many companies (it specifically mentions Google), just send the government a bill for the power + labor it takes to implement their black boxes and the government willingly pays. So I'm sure they'd be willing to have more mains added or do whatever infrastructure upgrades they'd need to get their hardware in there.


Cool. The labor is $1b/hr. (min 1 hr) Tell me where to send the bill.
 
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