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(Fark)   Has anyone ever convinced you to change from being conservative to being liberal (or vice versa)?   (fark.com) divider line 737
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1364 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Jul 2013 at 2:49 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-22 09:01:04 AM  
#1 Don't put your dick in crazy.
 
2013-07-22 09:06:09 AM  

grxymkjbn: feckingmorons: Eventually you run out of other people's money.

Well, let's start by making the billionaires and corporations (who currently pay zero taxes) start paying their fair share instead, and see how long until they run out of money, okay?




Like Social Security?
 
2013-07-22 09:12:20 AM  
No, no one in particular. But I've gotten far more liberal as I've aged and seen how evil conservatism as a political philosophy is.
 
2013-07-22 09:14:10 AM  
FuturePastNow:  But I've gotten far somewhat more liberal as I've aged and seen how evil stupid conservatism as a political philosophy is.

Modified slightly for myself.
 
2013-07-22 09:17:18 AM  
If you're looking for an example of someone whose opinion has changed due to online discussion, I am one.

I used to be a right-wing, fascist Libertarian. I was young and impressionable, and all of the forums I frequented were filled with people who were absolutely certain that Ron Paul was going to be President and that the Duopoly was going to come crashing down any second now. I wanted to fit in with the group, so I let those views rub off on me.

Nowadays, I'd describe myself as left of center (in the US- here in Canada, I'm probably closer to the center). My views changed when other posters had the courage to stand up to the hardcore Libertarians who dominated the conversation and challenge their views. Also, I started going to sites with a more diverse user base, such as Fark. These two factors- combined with the fact that I grew a little older and learned not to take everything I heard at face value- led me to open my eyes and do some research of my own. I came to the conclusion that Libertarianism, while usually well-meaning and not without a few good ideas, cannot form a suitable government for a modern society. I also found out what a farce the Austrian School of economics is, and today my views on economics are more in the style of Keynes. As my knowledge has increased, I have more or less completely abandoned my former beliefs.

Anybody who tells you that the thing people fear the most is death or public speaking is lying. People fear change more than anything else. Perhaps it's because our simple minds prefer to see things in simple, "black & white", "I'm right, you're wrong" terms, rather than shades of grey. Perhaps it's because there is a stigma associated with someone who changes their mind that brands them as an unreliable flip-flopper. Perhaps it's because you have so much invested in the identity you've established for yourself, and you don't want to see that facade crumble before your eyes. Perhaps it's all of the above. From my experience, my conclusion after all of this is that I wish more people were more open to changing their minds, and that doing so didn't involve as much suffering and pain and turmoil and fear.

I think the world would be a much better place if that was the case.
 
2013-07-22 09:19:06 AM  
Nope.  See, *I* haven't really changed my philosophy (ies) over the years.  The parties sure have though.  The conservatives are getting more sandy vagina'ed and totally derpistan, the libbies are getting libbier to attempt to counteract the conservative derp.

I've always been a moderate conservative.  Now apparently I'm a flaming libbby lib lib libbiest lib that ever libbed because I don't think poor people should suffer, people in general shouldn't starve, everyone should be able to afford to live a decent life, even if they need a little help to do so, women should be in charge of their own bodies, and jesus doesn't have shiat all to do with politics so shut the fark up about jesus.

/libbly libber lib lib
//apparently
 
2013-07-22 09:24:59 AM  
The choice is between derp and psycho babble. Both sides have convinced me not to be anything.
 
2013-07-22 09:28:49 AM  
I was a liberal until I visited Fark and realized that liberals are wrong about everything always.
 
2013-07-22 09:34:43 AM  
I had conservative economic leanings as a chils but when I reached 8th grade I stopped being a selfish child.
 
2013-07-22 09:47:43 AM  
I've been told by several of my Tea Party supporting friends that I am much too smart to be a dirty pinko Commie socialist.
 
2013-07-22 09:48:49 AM  

djRykoSuave: I had conservative economic leanings as a chils but when I reached 8th grade I stopped being a selfish child.


Conservatism's selfishness is no less base/childish than liberalism's envy.
 
2013-07-22 09:48:57 AM  
No one person, no, but I have changed a lot.  Somehow I managed to emerge from college a staunch conservative, since then my life experience, and more importantly the struggles of others I've seen have changed me into pretty much a left winger, except on a few issues.
 
2013-07-22 09:52:04 AM  

GoldSpider: djRykoSuave: I had conservative economic leanings as a chils but when I reached 8th grade I stopped being a selfish child.

Conservatism's selfishness is no less base/childish than liberalism's envy.


Yeah, us liberals are all about jealously pillaging the rich.

/rolls eyes
 
2013-07-22 09:57:17 AM  
Unlike conservatives I support the philosophy of Jesus.
 
2013-07-22 10:04:04 AM  

Serious Black: Yeah, us liberals are all about jealously pillaging the rich.


If you think "your side" has overcome any of humanity's base instincts, you're not helping.
 
2013-07-22 10:04:16 AM  

Stranded On The Planet Dumbass: Unlike conservatives I support the philosophy of Jesus.


Hey, another fan of the real Jesus and what he actually said, not some obscure verses from old Jewish law.

/I'm a red letter Christian Buddhist agnostic
 
2013-07-22 10:09:33 AM  
Absolutely not.  I'm a liberal because it matches how I believe, what I think, how I feel things should be, not because someone or some people talked me into it.  Wouldn't say much for my intelligence if I could be easily swayed from one side to the next.  In any event, absolutely nothing on this Earth, or even in the cosmos above it, could EVER persuade me to become a conservative/Republican.  I have too much respect for myself as an educated woman to align myself with those clowns.
 
2013-07-22 10:10:42 AM  

GoldSpider: Serious Black: Yeah, us liberals are all about jealously pillaging the rich.

If you think "your side" has overcome any of humanity's base instincts, you're not helping.


One of humanity's greatest base instincts is cooperation. We've been cooperating ever since we were hunter-gatherers, working together to kill enormous animals and sharing the bounty from these successful hunts. I hope we never overcome the instinct that mutual interest is how we truly express self-interest.
 
2013-07-22 10:12:58 AM  

feckingmorons: Rincewind53: feckingmorons: So people should have the choice to save up their own money, or buy insurance. I think you're an idiot if you don't buy insurance, but me getting superAIDS isn't going to make the guy next door have to replace his left front fender.

The point is that if a person does  not buy healthcare, they are then forcing the rest of us to subsidize their health care. That is, as a taxpayer, I will pay  more money in both health care premiums and taxes, in order to pay for the person with no health insurance who has to go to the emergency room to get primary medical care.

Healthcare and insurance are not the same thing. The emergency room doesn't actually provide primary care. If want to go in to have your blood pressure checked they will make you wait until everyone with an actual complaint or medical problem has been seen. You'll probably leave in that week or two. People lie to make it seem like their medical problems are worse so they can be seen quicker. Want a pregnancy test, say you have belly pain. What your PID treated, say you're spotting. People do it all the time. They do it because they don't want to pay at all. They are scamming the system. There will always be 5-10% who will do that. I lived this for almost two decades.

There are primary care clinics for the uninsured and for the destitute. There are social service agencies that will refer patients to them. Most people in the US on TFD could pick up the phone and dial 211 right now and get a referral to a provider for a medical non-emergency.

Making everyone buy health insurance won't stop these people. There will always be people that lie to get benefits to which they are not entitled simply because they are thieves. Look at the NJ School Board members and employees who lied to get their kids free lunch.

There are people who feel no compunction about lying to get our tax money. Those are the taxes I don't like paying, the ones that go to people who lie and ch ...


There will always be some people who will lie.  I think you are right when you say it is a small number of people though, maybe 5 to 10 percent.  I don't want the larger percent of people who are honest, 90 percent or higher, who are honest, to be punished because of them.

I don't have as much of a problem with people lying to get seen quicker in the ER, as I do with doctors and clinics trying to scam the system for hundreds of thousands of tax payer money.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-10-19/medi ca id-fraud-money/50831614/1
 
2013-07-22 10:14:27 AM  
Yes. And the man who convinced me to be a liberal was George W. Bush.

/Raised neocon fundie Christian.
//Brain turned on junior year of high school
///just in time to "lolwut" the Patriot Act
 
2013-07-22 10:19:41 AM  

Spadababababababa Spadina Bus: My views changed when other posters had the courage to stand up to the hardcore Libertarians who dominated the conversation and challenge their views. Also, I started going to sites with a more diverse user base, such as Fark.


i1234.photobucket.com

Have you gotten a look at this thread?
 
2013-07-22 10:23:29 AM  
Never was a Republican, and never will be. Republicans are against unions, and that's basically my family's way of making a living. I used to walk in Labor Day parades with my dad and his whole local. They used to tell me how Republicans were anti-union and didn't want to help working people. When I became an adult, I looked into it on my own, and lo and behold, my dad was right.

When I was in the Air Force, I was surrounded by conservatism for the first time in my life, and I looked into libertarianism. I even joined the LP for a spell. But I gradually realized libertarians don't know how governments work and assume the worst in all people, so their solutions are basically, "F*ck you, got mine," writ large.

I also live in the conservative Midwest, where I see how short-sighted thinking and fearing change limit the huge potential for growth here. Mediocrity and conformity are praised where I live, and that's pretty much emblematic of American conservatism for me.
 
2013-07-22 10:27:14 AM  

nekom: Stranded On The Planet Dumbass: Unlike conservatives I support the philosophy of Jesus.Hey, another fan of the real Jesus and what he actually said, not some obscure verses from old Jewish law./I'm a red letter Christian Buddhist agnostic


Yup, I'm agnostic too. The hypocrisy of christian conservatives just slays me. I could see how a more truly "Christian" candidate could change the course of American history. He could call out the money changers, call for sacrifice to the benefit of the poor, replace military action with international aid, promote a concern for stewardship of the land for future generations, and promote tolerance and forgiveness and accepting people as they are.

The higher moral ground is obvious.
 
2013-07-22 10:27:45 AM  

angrymacface: Once I realized that conservatives are horribly selfish people, I realized I didn't want to be one.


Me too.

I used to say I wanted old, rich people monitoring our money and young, compassionate people making our laws. Then I saw what Reagan did and realized it wouldn't work to trust those old, rich people with ANYTHING. So I guess you could say Reagan made me turn liberal.
 
2013-07-22 10:38:03 AM  
Stranded On The Planet Dumbass:
Yup, I'm agnostic too. The hypocrisy of christian conservatives just slays me. I could see how a more truly "Christian" candidate could change the course of American history. He could call out the money changers, call for sacrifice to the benefit of the poor, replace military action with international aid, promote a concern for stewardship of the land for future generations, and promote tolerance and forgiveness and accepting people as they are.

The higher moral ground is obvious.


Who would Jesus bomb?  But you know Supply Side Jesus isn't the same person as actual Jesus.  Humility, love and compassion don't work well for conservatives, so they needed to redefine him.
 
2013-07-22 10:39:25 AM  
Moving away from a conservative hotbed made me realize how pants-on-head derpy they were. It's like being freed from a cult.
 
2013-07-22 10:40:44 AM  

verbaltoxin: Never was a Republican, and never will be. Republicans are against unions, and that's basically my family's way of making a living. I used to walk in Labor Day parades with my dad and his whole local. They used to tell me how Republicans were anti-union and didn't want to help working people. When I became an adult, I looked into it on my own, and lo and behold, my dad was right.

When I was in the Air Force, I was surrounded by conservatism for the first time in my life, and I looked into libertarianism. I even joined the LP for a spell. But I gradually realized libertarians don't know how governments work and assume the worst in all people, so their solutions are basically, "F*ck you, got mine," writ large.

I also live in the conservative Midwest, where I see how short-sighted thinking and fearing change limit the huge potential for growth here. Mediocrity and conformity are praised where I live, and that's pretty much emblematic of American conservatism for me.


I take your point on conservatives being anti-union, but I think it's a mistake to be 100% pro or anti union. Unions are necessary to maintain hard earned workers rights and maintain a standard of living for tradesmen, etc. Unions are also hotbeds of corruption and, when they become too strong can be counterproductive. Back in the early 80's I happened to be doing some work in a GM plant in Cincinnati that assembled Camaros & Firebirds. I was in awe of the amount of people doing nothing, standing around bullshiatting or sleeping in corners. it wasn't unusual for people come in at the start of their shift, clock in then go home and sleep until the came back to clock out. Abuses were rampant and nothing could be done because they were protected by the UAW.

They have their place and are important, but sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.
 
2013-07-22 10:41:16 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: TuteTibiImperes: The answer to the health care dilemma is pretty simple:

National single payer system - Medicare for everyone

Premiums paid out of taxes at a progressive rate like income taxes (which I'd argue should be higher at the upper income levels as well)

A panel of doctors and experts sets the reimbursement costs at a fair level that lets medical facilities keep the doors open but still minimize costs, adjustments are made every couple years, maybe with a codified COLA adjustment in-between

All medical facilities are required by law to accept the government insurance

All doctors and medical facilities are required by law to perform any treatment to preserve life and quality of life for any patient who comes through the doors.  Appropriate exceptions can be made for the elderly for whom extreme measures would just slightly postpone death by natural causes.

Birth control, vasectomies, and other treatments that serve to save money in the long run would be covered.

Reconstructive plastic surgery (after burns, traumatic injuries, or to address defects such as hare lips) would be covered.

Vanity treatments like breast implants, calf implants, penis enlargements, etc, would have to come out of the patient's pocket

I also should have mentioned, something has to be done about the pharmaceutical lobby.  I get that drugs are expensive to develop, but we push way too many pills on way too many people, and there is too much marketing overhead cost included in medicine.

Maybe we should fund pharmaceutical development federally at various Universities with the resultant medications becoming public domain and open to generic production from day one, maybe we should just ban all pharmaceutical marketing and put severe limits on how pharma sales-reps can interact with doctors, I'm open so suggestions there.


I support funding pharmaceutical development federally at various Universities  regardless of cost saving measures (although I think that would result in a serious cut in government spending.) No, the real reason I want to move this sort of thing into the public is that privatized drug development is bad science. Do you know that when drug companies develop drugs that turn out to have bad side effects, they don't have to report anything about their findings as long as they don't bring the drug to market? Some people might say, what's the big deal? They didn't take the drug to market, so no big deal." And you would be right if it weren't for one thing. Other drug companies may decide to test the same compound of chemicals. Since the FDA will have no record of the negative side effect Company A found, Company B can go ahead and make the same mistakes all over again. Why do we allow companies to do this?

We are protecting their cost to compete, even at the cost of human lives. The thinking goes, "Company A spent X dollars to reach the conclusion that they did, so it would be unfair to remove those costs for Company B." This model is bad for science; it's expensive at best; and it is fatal at worst.
 
2013-07-22 10:42:25 AM  

Serious Black: GoldSpider: Serious Black: Yeah, us liberals are all about jealously pillaging the rich.

If you think "your side" has overcome any of humanity's base instincts, you're not helping.

One of humanity's greatest base instincts is cooperation. We've been cooperating ever since we were hunter-gatherers, working together to kill enormous animals and sharing the bounty from these successful hunts. I hope we never overcome the instinct that mutual interest is how we truly express self-interest.


Call me cynical but I don't think we have an innate drive to cooperate. That's a behavior that still has to be tought on school. Before then, a child tends to either hoard toys, or cry because another child has a toy he wants.
 
2013-07-22 10:46:15 AM  

GoldSpider: Serious Black: GoldSpider: Serious Black: Yeah, us liberals are all about jealously pillaging the rich.

If you think "your side" has overcome any of humanity's base instincts, you're not helping.

One of humanity's greatest base instincts is cooperation. We've been cooperating ever since we were hunter-gatherers, working together to kill enormous animals and sharing the bounty from these successful hunts. I hope we never overcome the instinct that mutual interest is how we truly express self-interest.

Call me cynical but I don't think we have an innate drive to cooperate. That's a behavior that still has to be tought on school. Before then, a child tends to either hoard toys, or cry because another child has a toy he wants.


Okay. You're cynical.
 
2013-07-22 10:46:37 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: MattStafford: I'm a liberal, but I subscribe to Austrian economics.  I'm not sure how I got here, but that's where I am.

I can honestly say I've never seen the pendulum swing that way. Socially liberal and Keynesian, sure. Socially conservative and Keynesian, sure. Socially conservative and Hayek follower, you betcha.

But socially liberal and Austrian school? Man, that seems pretty rare.


Seems like a pretty standard libertarian worldview.
 
2013-07-22 10:48:24 AM  

nekom: Stranded On The Planet Dumbass: Unlike conservatives I support the philosophy of Jesus.

Hey, another fan of the real Jesus and what he actually said, not some obscure verses from old Jewish law.

/I'm a red letter Christian Buddhist agnostic


Red letter agnostic here. Jesus was a pretty cool dude (or a pretty cool character).

I got slightly more conservative in college, due to the fact I used to be a complete pacifist, all war is sin, type of person. I have come to realize that sometimes wars are necessary, but I still think it should be an absolute last resort. So, I'm still pretty damn liberal. Abortion should be a right, euthanasia/assisted suicide should be legal, socialism/government can be a force for good if used correctly, etc. So yeah, I'm more liberal than either party still.
 
2013-07-22 10:50:06 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Popcorn Johnny: I like to think I've changed a few minds in the Zimmerman threads.

Real conservatism really shouldn't be saddled with parochial racism.


Right. It should be overarching, systemic racism. From the anti-Federalist's Three-Fifths Compromise to the Tea Party's voter ID laws, keeping down the black man has been the means and end of the "small government" wing of American politics.

AverageAmericanGuy: MattStafford: I'm a liberal, but I subscribe to Austrian economics.  I'm not sure how I got here, but that's where I am.

I can honestly say I've never seen the pendulum swing that way. Socially liberal and Keynesian, sure. Socially conservative and Keynesian, sure. Socially conservative and Hayek follower, you betcha.

But socially liberal and Austrian school? Man, that seems pretty rare.


Hayek and Friedman weren't as batshiat as their modern disciples would lead you to believe. They even supported guaranteed minimum incomes.
 
2013-07-22 10:51:03 AM  

Arkanaut: AverageAmericanGuy: MattStafford: I'm a liberal, but I subscribe to Austrian economics.  I'm not sure how I got here, but that's where I am.

I can honestly say I've never seen the pendulum swing that way. Socially liberal and Keynesian, sure. Socially conservative and Keynesian, sure. Socially conservative and Hayek follower, you betcha.

But socially liberal and Austrian school? Man, that seems pretty rare.

Seems like a pretty standard libertarian worldview.


Keynes was a pretty huge believer in free markets and capitalism, and his theory of countercyclical government spending grew out of the belief that people would overthrow capitalist systems if a giant depression upended the markets and left people starving and homeless with no hope of survival. He and Hayek were pretty similar ideologically speaking.
 
2013-07-22 10:51:14 AM  

GoldSpider: Serious Black: GoldSpider: Serious Black: Yeah, us liberals are all about jealously pillaging the rich.

If you think "your side" has overcome any of humanity's base instincts, you're not helping.

One of humanity's greatest base instincts is cooperation. We've been cooperating ever since we were hunter-gatherers, working together to kill enormous animals and sharing the bounty from these successful hunts. I hope we never overcome the instinct that mutual interest is how we truly express self-interest.

Call me cynical but I don't think we have an innate drive to cooperate. That's a behavior that still has to be tought on school. Before then, a child tends to either hoard toys, or cry because another child has a toy he wants.


That dynamic works a little different when your life is on the line. Day care is not a good analog for all human society I think.
 
2013-07-22 10:51:46 AM  
i was very conservative until about age 28.

i got better.

actually, i would be conservative right now if it wasn't for the freakish stupidity that the word conservative invokes these day.
 
2013-07-22 10:53:37 AM  
If you still call yourself a "conservative" after Dubya, the world would be better off without you.
 
2013-07-22 10:54:11 AM  

Wendy's Chili: Hayek and Friedman weren't as batshiat as their modern disciples would lead you to believe. They even supported guaranteed minimum incomes.


If we're going to talk economic theory, we need to consult the experts (VERY NSFW language)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT1AHDjzcsQ
 
2013-07-22 10:54:20 AM  
I considered myself a conservative until the rise of the Tea Party. I couldn't handle the cognitive dissonance it took to oppose stuff you championed weeks before.
 
2013-07-22 10:54:31 AM  
I have never been convinced by any one person, but I have been convinced by observing masses of people and learning about how the world works. I was raised a staunch Republican, transitioned rather quickly to Democrat after becoming an atheist in college, and have recently moved more to the center, not because I'm apathetic, but because the issues I care greatly about align with conservatives about as often as they align with liberals.
 
2013-07-22 10:56:19 AM  
I considered myself a Conservative for years. I ran for a State House seat in the late 1990s as an (R), I even found one of my old positions papers last year... pretty right. I voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004. I voted for Obama in 2008 because of what Bush and Company did to the economy. But I was never really hardcore.

Then 2010 happened. Walker in Wisconsin, Kasich in Ohio, the ignorance of the Tea 'tards, the Christian Taliban shiat pulled by the Fundies, the idiots in the House. I went full blue collar libby lib because of this insanity. I disagree with many things the Obama administration does, but every time it says something kind of dumb, the Tea 'tards take it and run it into the ground with their stupidity and ignorance.

I want Single Payer Health Care, I don't care to listen to some idiot tell me why it's bad because they mis-understand Socialism.
I want the US out of Afghanistan ASAP. I'm glad the time table's been fast tracked.
I like guns but the bullshiat surrounding the debate, especially the three times as loud neanderthals on the right, have turned me off. I now agree there should be mild controls in place because of the ignorance of the pro-gun idiots.

Basically the Tea 'tard Nation has turned me around. Good job, guys.
 
2013-07-22 10:57:12 AM  

jchuffyman: Jesus was a pretty cool dude (or a pretty cool character).


Agreed.  I view him as a philosopher and believe his teachings are very wise, which is the same opinion I have of the Buddha.  Whether or not tales of them were embellished or untrue, the teachings that have survived contain some excellent advice on living a good life, respecting others, and generally following the basic "don't be a dick" rule.  It's just a shame so many who identify as Christian don't bother to read the words of the man who the religion is supposedly focused on.
 
2013-07-22 10:57:12 AM  
No, how I think the govt should interact with the people is the same as always.

Though in my meat life there really are not that many active liberal thinkers.  They are  either appolitical or the bent of "I want this program that will benefit me but dont you ever think of taxing me to pay for it... regressive taxes and furthormore"
 
2013-07-22 11:05:37 AM  

trotsky: I considered myself a Conservative for years. I ran for a State House seat in the late 1990s as an (R), I even found one of my old positions papers last year... pretty right. I voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004. I voted for Obama in 2008 because of what Bush and Company did to the economy. But I was never really hardcore.

Then 2010 happened. Walker in Wisconsin, Kasich in Ohio, the ignorance of the Tea 'tards, the Christian Taliban shiat pulled by the Fundies, the idiots in the House. I went full blue collar libby lib because of this insanity. I disagree with many things the Obama administration does, but every time it says something kind of dumb, the Tea 'tards take it and run it into the ground with their stupidity and ignorance.

I want Single Payer Health Care, I don't care to listen to some idiot tell me why it's bad because they mis-understand Socialism.
I want the US out of Afghanistan ASAP. I'm glad the time table's been fast tracked.
I like guns but the bullshiat surrounding the debate, especially the three times as loud neanderthals on the right, have turned me off. I now agree there should be mild controls in place because of the ignorance of the pro-gun idiots.

Basically the Tea 'tard Nation has turned me around. Good job, guys.


Agreed on basically all your points, but my personal experience with Afghanistan has pushed me away from getting everyone out of the country immediately. As it is, we're going to be leaving behind a ton of shiat because we simply cannot ship it out of the country fast enough. Even if we greased the wheels by bribing border and customs officials, we'd still be unable to get it all out. Our options for what's left are to leave it for the Afghans to pillage, sell it for ANSF use, or burn it so nobody can use it.
 
2013-07-22 11:07:05 AM  
Watching the police/surveillance state grow under Bush made me more liberal, because liberals were fighting it.  Now that it's under Obama's control they've stopped hating authoritarianism and war, so now I've found myself agreeing more with conservatives in their criticism of the DHS and NSA.

I'm hoping a Republican gets elected president again so liberals can start being outraged by the destruction of the constitution again.  Though I'll never agree with liberals on guns.
 
2013-07-22 11:09:21 AM  

dehehn: I'm hoping a Republican gets elected president again so liberals can start being outraged by the destruction of the constitution again.  Though I'll never agree with liberals on guns.


It won't matter. Nobody voluntarily gives up an advantage. They have it now, either side will utilize it.
 
2013-07-22 11:09:35 AM  

nekom: jchuffyman: Jesus was a pretty cool dude (or a pretty cool character).

Agreed.  I view him as a philosopher and believe his teachings are very wise, which is the same opinion I have of the Buddha.  Whether or not tales of them were embellished or untrue, the teachings that have survived contain some excellent advice on living a good life, respecting others, and generally following the basic "don't be a dick" rule.  It's just a shame so many who identify as Christian don't bother to read the words of the man who the religion is supposedly focused on.


My dad is a minister in a more red letter brand of Christianity, so I grew up respecting the actual words of Jesus, and still do. I just left behind the supernatural element a long time ago
 
2013-07-22 11:11:35 AM  

Reginald Maudling: Day care is not a good analog for all human society I think.


Works fairly well for American society though.
 
2013-07-22 11:15:10 AM  
Those are not the only two possible categories nor are they particularly descriptive, duopolymitter.

In any case, ive moved pretty far leftward since my teenage years. Can't really trace it to any one specific person to blame. But its not like I meditated for a month and a day and found enlightenment by myself either.
 
2013-07-22 11:16:05 AM  

feckingmorons: Rincewind53: Have you considered that it is because they  can't pay?

Yes, I've considered that. I've also seen their Gucci purses and wheeled them out to nicer cars than mine. Sure, there are some that can't pay, those people should be on Medicare (and they can go to regular doctors during office hours for non-emergency care and the vast majority of Medicare patients do just that).

There is a certain pride for many people in scamming the government. The biggest tax refund scammer around these parts was just sentenced to 21 years in prison, but she boasted that she stole more than $21MM and dared authorities to catch her. She called herself the 'first lady' of refund fraud.

You just get tired of seeing your tax money wasted. I pay all my taxes, I even pay use taxes on stuff I buy from Amazon because you're supposed to pay your taxes. When I see the IRS not cooperating with local law enforcement in refund fraud because of federal privacy laws and congress wasting their time on bullshiat I just get fed up.

Rincewind53: The fact of the matter is that the poor in America  do not have access to good health care.

They have access to it. We have a right to access to health care, we don't have a right to free healthcare.


And why don't we have a right to free health care?  Watch some of this and see what you think.  You don't even have to watch it all, just get to the 2:30 minute mark.  By the way, I'm also a nurse and I work in psych area of the hospital.  We work with a lot of the poor and the elderly and have many, 'repeaters'.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html

By the way, I appreciate your respectful tone even having a different opinion.
 
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