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(Fark)   Has anyone ever convinced you to change from being conservative to being liberal (or vice versa)?   (fark.com) divider line 737
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1364 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Jul 2013 at 2:49 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-22 04:44:32 AM
Few people will fundamentally change their political mind set on things. They might change their minds on certain issues even if it means 'breaking away' from what is 'typical' of their political views.

For instance, I'm a small government Republican, I support full gay rights but that may be because I'm an atheist as well.
 
2013-07-22 04:51:39 AM

randomjsa: Few people will fundamentally change their political mind set on things. They might change their minds on certain issues even if it means 'breaking away' from what is 'typical' of their political views.

For instance, I'm a small government Republican, I support full gay rights but that may be because I'm an atheist as well.


It may also be because you believe in personal freedom. That's something the Religious Right has vociferously driven the Republican party away from, to the detriment of everyone.

We never should have let those assholes into the party.
 
2013-07-22 04:59:43 AM
I think we all owe fm a big hand for showing up and giving us a perfect example of today's typical conservative: wrong about darn near everything, and proud of it.  Also, disappears when faced with facts, logic, and reason.

It was almost like this thread was created with him in mind.  And he came through like a champ.
 
2013-07-22 05:07:56 AM
Yeah.  

Old lady looked on my hairy balls and said, "Oh... you need to trim that quickly," with such shame at a sex party.

I am now more conservative with hair and more liberal with who I share that story with.
 
2013-07-22 05:16:35 AM
Senator Hal Daub (R).

I met the man face to face, as a kid, he proceeded to horrify me with every sort of justification for death squadding nuns in El Salvador. I have never wanted anything to do with that side of the fence since that day.
 
2013-07-22 05:19:32 AM

Tor_Eckman: I think we all owe fm a big hand for showing up and giving us a perfect example of today's typical conservative: wrong about darn near everything, and proud of it.  Also, disappears when faced with facts, logic, and reason.

It was almost like this thread was created with him in mind.  And he came through like a champ.


And he thought he was being attacked personally, even though almost no one did that, and most even mentioned how nice and charitable he usually is. Some people are just never willing to consider they might be wrong about something.
 
2013-07-22 05:25:43 AM
Dear subby...

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2013-07-22 05:34:36 AM
In an ideal society, we're all born conservatives, liberals at puberty, moderates in adulthood, conspiracy theorists in middle age, and terrified yet apathetic in old age.
 
2013-07-22 05:35:55 AM

doglover: monty666: doglover: monty666: doglover: MappingChick: feckingmorons: MappingChick: No, but a lot of people like telling me how I should know more about Jesus.

Come on over on Thursday he does the lawn with a couple of other guys.

/I think he is married.

Your joke is much better than the one I was trying to formulate.

[hateandanger.files.wordpress.com image 500x587]

I really have to get a cowboy hat.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 570x402]

I'm thinking more Roofie Cowboy. Yeee-ha!

[i25.photobucket.com image 400x400]


best thing ive seen all day. thanks, partner...lolz
 
2013-07-22 05:38:30 AM
If you align yourself with the current GOP you are either incredibly stupid, mentally ill or both.
 
2013-07-22 05:41:09 AM
This is a quote that made me think twice about some of my views:

"The spirit of system, a fertile Source of error, fertile in most sciences, is peculiarly so in political economy. It is a foe to solid knowledge; the more insidious and fatal because it usually accompanies superior mental capacity, being very nearly allied to that love and relish of truth which distinguishes minds of a superior order. The spirit of system consists in a tendency to reduce all phenomena to a few general rules, and to find a greater degree of order, symmetry, and simplicity in the natural, moral, or political world than really exists, or can exist. Instead of expanding the mind to the rich and endless variety and subtlety [sic] of nature or art, it would contract that variety to the narrow limits of the human understanding. It finds ready acceptance with all men; for it flatters both the pride and the indolence of human nature. It is much easier to comprehend and apply a few general rules than to understand the complicated structure and regulations of human society. Any man may make a parade of knowledge by dogmatizing [sic] about imaginary general principles, but to master facts, details, and the results of experience, is a long, toilsome, and humbling occupation."

- John Baynard Byles
 
2013-07-22 05:45:28 AM
Star Trek
 
2013-07-22 05:49:25 AM

Whiskey Pete: If you align yourself with the current GOP you are either incredibly stupid, mentally ill or both.


Or just a complete asshole. Yet, none of these categories are mutually exclusive.
 
2013-07-22 05:55:04 AM
I'm neither, but I like science and facts, so nowadays that means I'm a lib.
 
2013-07-22 05:59:20 AM
The whole conservative or liberal is a false dichotomy, and is meaningless. Healthy politics requires all responsible voices to be heard. It is the dynamic tension between ideas along the political spectrum that leads to workable policy outcomes over time.
 
2013-07-22 06:00:38 AM

RedPhoenix122: syrynxx: Who am I going to vote for now?

Pedro.




I don't vote for white guys.
 
2013-07-22 06:06:08 AM
I believe helping everyone who can't or won't help themselves.  I believe in making sure that every child has a safe, warm home with no lack of food, clothing, or guardianship.  I believe in making sure that women are the only ones who get to decide when they're ready to reproduce.  I believe in making sure that every citizen has equal rights regardless of how they behave in the bedroom.  I believe in healing the sick, no matter the illness or cost if that is what the patient wants.  I believe in public and civil service, not just at home, but abroad.

I give to the poor and needy in my community and work to make sure that my elected officials understand how the policies they may not like really are the best in the long run and that implementing a half bad idea now is much better than never changing the whole bad system.

The older I get the more of a busy-body libby-liberal I get. I'm just trying to be a good person and there seems to be only one side of the political spectrum that really runs in that direction.
 
2013-07-22 06:06:23 AM

CommieTaoist: The older I get, the more liberal I get.


You're probably just standing still, the political spectrum is shifting right underneath your feet.
 
2013-07-22 06:07:00 AM

gadian: I believe helping everyone who can't or won't help themselves.  I believe in making sure that every child has a safe, warm home with no lack of food, clothing, or guardianship.  I believe in making sure that women are the only ones who get to decide when they're ready to reproduce.  I believe in making sure that every citizen has equal rights regardless of how they behave in the bedroom.  I believe in healing the sick, no matter the illness or cost if that is what the patient wants.  I believe in public and civil service, not just at home, but abroad.

I give to the poor and needy in my community and work to make sure that my elected officials understand how the policies they may not like really are the best in the long run and that implementing a half bad idea now is much better than never changing the whole bad system.

The older I get the more of a busy-body libby-liberal I get. I'm just trying to be a good person and there seems to be only one side of the political spectrum that really runs in that direction.


DINO!!
 
2013-07-22 06:11:27 AM
I was just looking at my pay stub for the first half of the year. I feel damn fortunate that I can afford to have over $30k paid in taxes so far this year. I get to live well because society supported me for a long time, and now I am fortunate enough that the system have given me an opportunity to enjoy some measure of success while giving back to the system.
 
2013-07-22 06:11:50 AM
I was once a libertarian, but my GF asked me "Why would you support a political party who only believes the state should fund just the military and the police?".  I married her and become a liberal.
 
2013-07-22 06:13:58 AM
Follow up questions...

a)  Has anyone ever convinced you to change from being racist to being non-racist (or vice-versa)?
b)  Has anyone ever convinced you to change from being religious to being non-religious (or vice-versa)?

/key point is "anyone" other than yourself, not any situation/inspiration
 
2013-07-22 06:17:59 AM
I guess in a way, but it really wasn't any one person.  When I was younger I was more conservative, but then I started working and got out into the real world and turned more liberal.  It was more me being told all these horror stories of what would happen if Bill Clinton was elected by conservatives I knew and I believed them. I guess unfortunately for them and fortunately for me, I paid attention to things and the exact opposite happened from what my conservative friends told me would happen.  When I expressed this contradiction of reality and what they wanted reality to be expecting a rational conversation on the subject, but all they did was chew me out and call me names for not agreeing with them.  That was before the GOP totally jumped the shark.

Of course for a while that riled me up to where I felt I had to be the "counter balance" to all these conservatives I know, unintentionally becoming as much of a "jerk" from the left as they were from the right. Then I had an epiphany after reading on of my rants that I was just like them and probably did way more harm than good as far as convincing anybody on the fence.  So now when I see a post on Facebook or hear a friend spew right-wing political fallacies I just keep my mouth shut and leave them be and join the people who comment what a raving lunatic they are.
 
2013-07-22 06:20:39 AM

magores: a) Has anyone ever convinced you to change from being racist to being non-racist (or vice-versa)?
b) Has anyone ever convinced you to change from being religious to being non-religious (or vice-versa)?

/key point is "anyone" other than yourself, not any situation/inspiration


No on both counts.  Plenty of people have tried to convert me one way or another.  Neither racism or religion make much damn sense to me.  I remember sitting in church as a really small child and looking around wondering if any of the grown ups in the room really believe that nonsense.
 
2013-07-22 06:21:29 AM
I used to be hard core right wing christian conservative.  it wasn't 'one thing' that convinced me to change...unless that 'one thing' was several prominent conservatives.  it was more of a process.  lies and contradictions piles up so high and so far that I simply could not ignore the evidence any longer.  everything I'd been told was a lie.  church leaders were lying to me about their greed and lust.  Republican leaders dragged us into a war on a whim, then lied about the causes.  Corporate america sold us out for $50 and a bag of cheetos.  Conservatives weren't 'small government', they just wanted the government to control certain people and activities.  And there was simply no reason, logical or scientific, to keep cannabis illegal.  Eventually all those lies, contradictions and paradoxes added up to something I couldn't ignore.  and once I'd accepted that the GOP was lying to me....the rest sort of fell into place.
 
2013-07-22 06:23:24 AM
of course, now I"m a moderate 'liberal' democrat and semi-out of the broom closet as a pagan.  so yeah, I went from hard core right wing conservative christian Republican to damn near complete opposite.
 
2013-07-22 06:23:39 AM
Late to the party but first off let me say fark both parties. Neither really does a good job of doing what is in the best interest of the country. Sure the Republicans make the Democrats look OK by being against brown people, women, the poor, and science but the Democrats have only done a slightly better job of not being useless. As for me, it's hard to define myself exactly to one mindset or another.

Mostly I do what makes sense and since I love science and don't believe in religion that makes it easier.


Pro choice because I believe in the freedom to do with your own body as you see fit.

Same for drugs to a point. Banning both abortion and drugs won't stop humans from doing them and society is not served with so many people locked up in prison.

Which brings me to my next point. How can you not believe in social services and be for prisons that provide all these things?


Granted, prison isn't a nice place to be (according to the tv), but our prisons have become a dumping ground for druggies and the mentally ill. We can't have better access to healthcare though because socialism.

Anyway, I don't believe in god but I do believe in the idea we need to help each other reach our full potential and be nicer to each other. It's what dinosaur riding Jesus would of wanted.
 
2013-07-22 06:24:41 AM
No one had to convince me of anything. My inherent altruism and concern for my fellow human beings has always driven me to whatever side you think fits those traits. I could give a rats ass what political leanings you have. If you chose to help me in ensuring the betterment and well-being of the people as a whole? I'm on your side. If not, well, don't expect to see me at any of your conventions. If that makes me a liberal, so be it.
 
2013-07-22 06:27:10 AM

CommieTaoist: The older I get, the more liberal I get.


This. I went from liberal to democratic socialist.
 
2013-07-22 06:28:21 AM

randomjsa: Few people will fundamentally change their political mind set on things.


I did/have.
 
2013-07-22 06:29:41 AM

Whiskey Pete: If you align yourself with the current GOP you are either incredibly stupid, mentally ill or both.


or people are voting out of inertia.  there's also a lot of willing blindness among rank and file Republican voters.  they believe they're voting for a party of smaller government and honorable people who just want to make the country a better place.
 
2013-07-22 06:32:27 AM

Weaver95: Whiskey Pete: If you align yourself with the current GOP you are either incredibly stupid, mentally ill or both.

or people are voting out of inertia.  there's also a lot of willing blindness among rank and file Republican voters.  they believe they're voting for a party of smaller government and honorable people who just want to make the country a better place.


Kinetic voting habits, the GOP banks on it.
 
2013-07-22 06:38:06 AM
To answer the original question, yes.  Newt Gingrich convinced me to become a liberal. I never looked back.
 
2013-07-22 06:38:07 AM
Dunno if it was truly a conservative/liberal thing but I had my viewpoint on the Death Penalty turned around by a specific well-argued post back in the Usenet days.  Its one of the few things I'm "off the reservation" with in respect to my typical fellow lib.
 
2013-07-22 06:43:07 AM
When I was in high school, I didn't have well-formed political ideas or strong opinions on politics. But I did Speech & Debate Club, and often argued for conservative positions in that context simply because they were simpler arguments to make and easy t appeal to outrage and emotion.  I went to an all-boys private high school that was pretty white, some of my friends were hardcore Republicans, so I was exposed to those ideas and not as much the other side.

Then I went off to college and started actually thinking critically on my own about issues, and gradually became much more liberal. Spending a decade in NYC and being exposed to, and becoming comfortable with, all manner of diversity certainly helped in this process.
 
2013-07-22 06:44:58 AM
If anything, I've become more liberal as I've grown older and learn more... I never would have been considered "conservative" by any stretch of the imagination, to be honest.

Funnily enough, it's the words and actions of conservatives and Republicans that have made me more liberal in the last decade or so.

There was a time, though, when I would have voted for moderate Republicans at the local and state level here in MA, but that time has long since disappeared...
 
2013-07-22 06:50:47 AM

Stile4aly: It would be unfair to say that Bush convinced me to become a liberal.  It would be more accurate to say that the majority of the Republican party during the early 2000s convinced me.

I voted for Dole in 1996 (that's how conservative I was) and Bush in 2000.  Didn't vote in 2004.  Been the libbiest lib who ever libbed since.



Sounds like me. I registered in 1978 and voted Republican in state and Federal elections right up to 1992. I was disappointed in George Bush Sr after his first term and voted independent that election, then reluctantly voted for Clinton in 1996. After that, however, I'd say the Republican party left me; Gingrich's "Contract with America", the grandstanding with the Federal shutdown, and the impeachment of Clinton for trivial, personal reasons soured me on the Republicans, and they've only gotten worse since then.
 
2013-07-22 06:58:34 AM

themindiswatching: The problem is that of education. In 2012, 4.5% of people with bachelor's degrees were unemployed. I'm for making public universities free, myself.


or maybe the problem is that so many people finish high-school without the ability to read and write?
 
2013-07-22 07:01:35 AM

the opposite of charity is justice: Dunno if it was truly a conservative/liberal thing but I had my viewpoint on the Death Penalty turned around by a specific well-argued post back in the Usenet days.  Its one of the few things I'm "off the reservation" with in respect to my typical fellow lib.


Death Penalty creates angry ghosts. That's why there were so many school shootings right after that clown outfit mass murderer was executed.
 
2013-07-22 07:02:10 AM
Yeah,the Republican party and their constant need to force Jesus down my throat caused my switch.
 
2013-07-22 07:04:52 AM

Weaver95: I used to be hard core right wing christian conservative.  it wasn't 'one thing' that convinced me to change...unless that 'one thing' was several prominent conservatives.  it was more of a process.  lies and contradictions piles up so high and so far that I simply could not ignore the evidence any longer.  everything I'd been told was a lie.  church leaders were lying to me about their greed and lust.  Republican leaders dragged us into a war on a whim, then lied about the causes.  Corporate america sold us out for $50 and a bag of cheetos.  Conservatives weren't 'small government', they just wanted the government to control certain people and activities.  And there was simply no reason, logical or scientific, to keep cannabis illegal.  Eventually all those lies, contradictions and paradoxes added up to something I couldn't ignore.  and once I'd accepted that the GOP was lying to me....the rest sort of fell into place.


Weaver95: of course, now I"m a moderate 'liberal' democrat and semi-out of the broom closet as a pagan.  so yeah, I went from hard core right wing conservative christian Republican to damn near complete opposite.


I remember when I started posting on the site in early 2004 - I was a very pro-war libertarian.  I find it interesting that there's a measurable movement, even if it's only 5-10% of the population, moving in the opposite direction of the old Churchill "no heart/no brain" axiom.

I also nearly wipe out my keyboard every time I see someone relatively new to the site label you as a liberal.

/it's like watching that kid at Historicon this weekend ask why 40k had "space elves and space orcs" but no "space dwarves"
 
2013-07-22 07:15:29 AM

sn82: The theory of small government and not spending as much as democrats do.


The Republicans claim to be small government and they claim to spend less.

But that's not true.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/02/chart-day-republican-vs - democratic-spending">http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/02/ch art-day-republican-vs- democratic-spending
 
2013-07-22 07:17:30 AM

Weaver95: randomjsa: Few people will fundamentally change their political mind set on things.

I did/have.


I did as well - changed from conservative to liberal 'round about the Gingrich years.
 
2013-07-22 07:30:38 AM
i.huffpost.com

NOPE
 
2013-07-22 07:37:06 AM
Been a liberal ever since my parents told me that only Racists vote for Republicans. This has been proven true for the rest of my life, and I have seen no reason to entertain any changes in philosophy
 
2013-07-22 07:37:40 AM

Abacus9: sn82: make me some tea: sn82: I was a democrat until I met my ex several years ago. Then he told me more about republican and it made sense. I'm still kind of in the middle of the two parties but am more to the right than in the past. I still mostly vote for the right candidate versus voting for which party they're affiliated with.

As an ex-conservatve, what "made sense" to you specifically?

The theory of small government and not spending as much as democrats do.

If you think conservatives care about small government and less spending, perhaps you don't remember GWB? Starting unnecessary wars, greatly expanding the power of government under the Patriot Act, Defense of Marriage and all that?


Would Gore or Kerry have spent less?

syrynxx: The US government has no more right to force me to buy 3rd-party health insurance than it does to force me to buy ketchup or soup or footwear. It certainly doesn't have the authority to penalize me for not buying a commercial product.

You have to purchase auto insurance if you own a car. How is that different?


The law does not require you to own a car.
 
2013-07-22 07:39:57 AM

Rincewind53: But you do have to have health care (literally everyone will incur a hospital bill in their lifetime). And someone has to pay for it. So it's either going to be the government and therefore your fellow taxpayers, or it's going to be you.


Thing is when you budget, save and plan your life around certain events, doing the responsible thing and you get rewarded by having to pay for the healthcare of people who chose not to.

I was a raving, gas on fire liberal through college and a few years afterward.  After I started actually working 65 hrs a week to get out of college debt, I started to ask myself why the fark do I work when others sloth and enjoy the same life?  I lived in a shiatty apartment, drove a beater and worked a horrible job.  i once had to loan $500 from a family member to pay some bills and they didn't have much money themselves but they were willing to do it because family.

The thought of my needs imposing a debt on someone else struck a chord.  To this day, I cant understand why it is greedy to keep what you've put your blood, sweat and most preciously, time into earning but it is not greedy to sloth and expect a cut from someone who does.
 
2013-07-22 07:40:10 AM

SunsetLament: Would Gore or Kerry have spent less?


It's arguable that if Gore were elected in 2000, that Al Qaeda wouldn't have seen the need to attack us in the first place.
 
hej
2013-07-22 07:41:01 AM
I started off pretty liberal.  Then I found Fark and decided it was best to be conservative.
 
2013-07-22 07:41:59 AM
when i was in college in 2001 i considered myself a republican although i didn't really follow politics.  i thought "yeah i like small government and i don't like high taxes and i don't think lazy unemployed people should get welfare."  what can i say, i was young and stupid.  i also hated al gore (and still do) and would have voted for bush (or mccain) in 2000 if i had bothered to vote in that election.  i told one of my friends that was a republican and he outright laughed at me and said "no you're not!" and proceeded to explain to me that my actual politics were strongly liberal and my understanding of republican ideology was very flawed.  i thought republicans believed in being fiscally conservative and supporting mainstream america by helping small business.  that makes me laugh now.  although it wasn't until the political aftermath of 9/11 that i really began to realize how destructive and selfish republican politics are.

conservatives like to joke that college kids are all liberal until they graduate and get a job and start paying taxes, then they become conservative.  but for me it was the exact opposite.  once i got out of school and started living on my own and actually paying attention to politics and the government, i was embarrassed to think i ever thought i was conservative.  i am very liberal and i'm only getting more liberal the older i get.
 
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