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(Fark)   Has anyone ever convinced you to change from being conservative to being liberal (or vice versa)?   (fark.com ) divider line
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1373 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Jul 2013 at 2:49 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-22 02:12:11 AM  

feckingmorons: Rincewind53: dialysis

There is a program specifically for End Stage Renal Disease so what are you talking about dialysis.

Don't just make shiat up.


And the sequester cuts to Medicare are hitting right now, and three weeks ago Medicare proposed drastically slashing those funds.
 
2013-07-22 02:12:48 AM  

rappy: Fecking you're the type that helps people just so you can flaunt it. Try doing it sometime without rubbing someone's nose in it.

Helping others to receive a pat on the back is pathetic.


You're truly the most annoying person on here. I like MarySue better. I've told you that several times.

You could never possibly understand why I do the things I do.
 
2013-07-22 02:13:50 AM  
I have this mental image of Socially Concerned Fecking waking up and looking in the mirror at Charitable Fecking and both of them asking "who the hell let Tea Party Fecking drive the bus last night?"
 
2013-07-22 02:14:00 AM  

Rincewind53: feckingmorons: Rincewind53: dialysis

There is a program specifically for End Stage Renal Disease so what are you talking about dialysis.

Don't just make shiat up.

And the sequester cuts to Medicare are hitting right now, and three weeks ago Medicare proposed drastically slashing those funds.


So tell Obama not to spend $100MM flying to Africa. We can economize, but the hue and cry when we try to cut a government job is astounding.
 
2013-07-22 02:14:59 AM  
"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. " -- Matthew 6:2
 
2013-07-22 02:15:47 AM  
Poor guy. Don't like it much when you're called out, do you?
 
2013-07-22 02:16:47 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: In high school and the first couple years of college I considered myself a republican, but that was mostly due to lack of research.  I saw republicans as the party of rich people, and I wanted to be rich, and I thought 'yeah, dang all those parasites just cashing all of those welfare checks and never working a day in their lives'.  I was never socially conservative, and when I first registered to vote, I registered as a libertarian, but in my defense, my mental image of libertarians were the guys that smoked weed in front of the coffee place and talked about philosophy and plays well past midnight.

Then I actually bothered looking up what the parties stood for, and getting closer to entering the real world I understood that welfare queens were a particularly cruel myth, and that the Democratic party was the one that actually stood up for the rights of the middle class and the average worker.  I changed my voter registration to Democrat and haven't looked back.  The continual march of the right into religious fundamentalism has made that decision look smarter every day since.

I've always been socially liberal - I've always felt that gay people should have every right afforded to heterosexual people, including marriage, I've always been pro-immigration, I've always been pro-science and pro-stem cell research, and I've been pro-choice since I bothered to look up the actual time-line of a pregnancy and the length of time it takes for what is essentially a medical condition to turn into a child.

I suppose I still align myself with a couple right-wing talking points - I fully support Israel, their rights to the land they won in the Six Day War, and supported the war on terrorism (though I'll admit we could have done it in a much better fashion and without losing as many American lives and giving as much money as we have to defense contractors).

I also have beliefs that don't align with any of the major parties - I believe that we need to seriously re-evaluate our copy ...


I like the way you think...except I am and will remain Republican. I disagree with your position of Dems standing up for middle class. Democrats are as beholden to big business as Republican. The difference is Republicans are open about it.

/still...your newsletter...etc.
 
2013-07-22 02:17:14 AM  

Satan's Chocolate Starfish: I have this mental image of Socially Concerned Fecking waking up and looking in the mirror at Charitable Fecking and both of them asking "who the hell let Tea Party Fecking drive the bus last night?"


My beliefs and opinions have been consistent for decades. I've said them before and I'm just tired of being vilified because of them, as if somehow I'm keeping old people in Peoria from getting their pills.

Nobody here knows me, yet there are plenty of people in this thread who are happy to tell me what an asshole I am because I'm conservative. This country had degraded into a culture that devalues life and the individual. We can't even keep Chicago murder free for a day because the young adults of today place such a low value on life, yet I'm somehow the problem.

You people sure have some farked up priorities.
 
2013-07-22 02:17:50 AM  

angrymacface: "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. " -- Matthew 6:2


Stick it up your ass.

-Feckingmorons 7/22/2013
 
2013-07-22 02:18:33 AM  

rappy: Poor guy. Don't like it much when you're called out, do you?


By you, no I don't because you are a vile child.
 
2013-07-22 02:18:34 AM  

feckingmorons: Your posting stuff from the Huffington Post! Pravda is more believable.


Dude. I posted multiple articles from CNN, one from ABC, one directly to Politifact, and one to HuffPo. The HuffPo article was simply reporting the results of a survey done by a third party. If you'd like, here is the survey itself, including methodology. The study was reported on dozens of other news sources, including CNN, MSNBC, USA Today, and many others. Hell, this isn't exactly groundbreaking journalism. Even Glenn Beck's The Blaze has reported on how Americans have very little savings.

Don't shoot the messenger without listening to what he has to say.
 
2013-07-22 02:18:59 AM  
So this thread is why I don't really talk politics with anyone in real life any more. :/
 
2013-07-22 02:19:49 AM  

feckingmorons: Abacus9: That's sort of what he's doing: ignoring the points he doesn't want to answer.

This isn't about me covering each point. The question is have you shifted your political views.

Yet every time I've posted mine I've been attacked, and just like your attacking me for not making a counterpoint to every point someone else makes.

You know what, fark you people. I don't have to defend myself and I sure as hell don't have to help anyone of Total Fark. I've been nice, I've paid people's bills, I've helped explain landlord/tenant problems, I've paid people's rent. I've paid for veterinary medicines.

fark all of you who don't respect my opinions, you don't have to agree, but you could be civil.


I haven't attacked you personally, and neither have most of the others, we're attacking your view point. Trying to make you see the disconnect. Nothing against you personally, you seem like a good person from what others have said.
 
2013-07-22 02:20:10 AM  
The answer to the health care dilemma is pretty simple:

National single payer system - Medicare for everyone

Premiums paid out of taxes at a progressive rate like income taxes (which I'd argue should be higher at the upper income levels as well)

A panel of doctors and experts sets the reimbursement costs at a fair level that lets medical facilities keep the doors open but still minimize costs, adjustments are made every couple years, maybe with a codified COLA adjustment in-between

All medical facilities are required by law to accept the government insurance

All doctors and medical facilities are required by law to perform any treatment to preserve life and quality of life for any patient who comes through the doors.  Appropriate exceptions can be made for the elderly for whom extreme measures would just slightly postpone death by natural causes.

Birth control, vasectomies, and other treatments that serve to save money in the long run would be covered.

Reconstructive plastic surgery (after burns, traumatic injuries, or to address defects such as hare lips) would be covered.

Vanity treatments like breast implants, calf implants, penis enlargements, etc, would have to come out of the patient's pocket
 
2013-07-22 02:20:53 AM  

feckingmorons: rappy: Fecking you're the type that helps people just so you can flaunt it. Try doing it sometime without rubbing someone's nose in it.

Helping others to receive a pat on the back is pathetic.

You're truly the most annoying person on here. I like MarySue better. I've told you that several times.

You could never possibly understand why I do the things I do.


Oh, I really shouldn't. Really.

Oh to hell with it
 
2013-07-22 02:21:23 AM  

Rincewind53: feckingmorons: Your posting stuff from the Huffington Post! Pravda is more believable.

Dude. I posted multiple articles from CNN, one from ABC, one directly to Politifact, and one to HuffPo. The HuffPo article was simply reporting the results of a survey done by a third party. If you'd like, here is the survey itself, including methodology. The study was reported on dozens of other news sources, including CNN, MSNBC, USA Today, and many others. Hell, this isn't exactly groundbreaking journalism. Even Glenn Beck's The Blaze has reported on how Americans have very little savings.

Don't shoot the messenger without listening to what he has to say.


Well if we had a functioning economy and there were jobs people could have more savings. PPACA has screwed that possibility in the near future. Even the public library where I worked is no longer hiring anyone at more than 24 hours a week because they would have to insure them.

Kids can't get jobs because adults have to work in McDonalds, and Wendy's and Taco Bell to get enough money to support their families because of the restrictions on hours because of PPACA.
 
2013-07-22 02:22:25 AM  

themindiswatching: So this thread is why I don't really talk politics with anyone in real life any more. :/


I really should know better. One post before it went green and I should have stopped. This will easily get to 1000 as every liter who can bang out a partly coherent sentence calls me an asshole or a fascist or a dick or something.
 
2013-07-22 02:22:43 AM  
My opinion on the death penalty has changed over time. Less about other folks' arguments, and more about understanding the issue better. I still think that removing folks from the gene pool is not a terrible thing. It's not perhaps forgiving, but I am not a really good Buddhist in that sense. Maybe I spent too much time on the floor when I was bouncing, maybe my father being a soldier, and coming from a long line of soldiers, I have perhaps a more fluid sense of justice. What I did come to realize is that given the faults within our criminal justice system, there is too much room for error, and given the sentencing trends that tend to be more harsh on some folks of economic background, and ethnicity, we have issues that are attached to how the death penalty is carried out in this country. That application has too much room for error, and margin is too great for me to be able to support the death penalty, because while I full well understand the desire for retribution and justice being served, it's not justice if it's applied in a fashion that is patently unfair.

I sometimes get complaints from folks that I don't fit the typical "Conservative" mode, in that I don't hold to the the current party rhetoric. I like to think that I come from a model of Conservatism that is perhaps not in vogue, but has deeper underpinnings than the current and somewhat plastic platform that uses some convoluted reasoning to undermine the past trends. Be that on matters of economics--yes, indeed, Voodoo Economics is still not my favorite thing, and if we want to get our budgets in line, we have to do more than spend, and tax, we also have to spend wisely. That means investing a bit, for future profit. In education, in wise use of regulation, in wise use of taxation. That is less a "liberal" or "conservative" estimation, than taking a look at the structures that are in place, our current needs, and projecting for future needs as well.
In part, I hold to a Conservative model that is perhaps "outdated" by some in the party, who feel that to preserve "Conservatism" we have to do the opposite of what "Liberals" want. And that sort of reactionism is NOT a foundation for any sane policy.

Conservatism used to mean considered and careful policy. To be against simple reactionary hysteria that led to over-reaction, and crafting policy based on fear and populism. It still does to some, but they are getting fewer and fewer within the GOP. That is why I registered Independent, because the GOP no longer stands for careful and considered policy, but rather has been taken over, and has been in the hands of folks in the leadership who are very much radicals, and radicals to the right, which leads to just as many dark places as radical to the left. Radicalism itself should be anathema to sane Conservative thought. And at this point, it's not. Rather, the radicals have redefined what "Conservatism" means in the public mind, and that shift towards a radicalized vision that rejects freedom of speech, rejects privacy, rejects freedom of religion--save when it is involved with Christianity, and only the "right" kinds of Christians at that--and really dislikes the whole basis of our law, if it contravenes something that a donor or someone in office REALLY wants NOW. Guns, are apparently OK, and everyone should have them, with the exception of felons of the wrong color or economic background, which is an odd way to pick your battles.

It is less about me shifting or changing, than watching the party radicalize, and then deny that it continues to back policy so long as it has the right appellation behind the name. That sort of turn towards a philosophy that embraces a half assed understanding of "subjective reality" is a hallmark of the NeoCons, and embraced by the Religious Right, who are leading the party into some very dark territory, especially when it is coupled with an increasing reactionary bend, to oppose something simply on the fact that it is brought up by the "wrong" people, even if it's an idea that you embraced only moments before, when it was brought up the "right" people.

THAT isn't so much "Conservative" or "Liberal" as asinine and reactionary, and it is likewise, bone stoopid. I am not really a fan, so if that makes me suddenly a Pinko in some folks' minds, then so be it. Your opinion is noted, and I will take it for all the value that it deserves: which is to say, not very damn much. I instead look to a teacher and a figure that I hold in more esteem, for the teaching of a more critical approach. And right now, Conservatives might do well to use that critical approach in crafting policy, as opposed to simply throwing hissy fits because someone else had an idea that might challenge what you want to do right now, as opposed to its context in actual policy and Constitutionality...

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
--Siddhartha Gutama
 
2013-07-22 02:22:46 AM  

feckingmorons: So tell Obama not to spend $100MM flying to Africa. We can economize, but the hue and cry when we try to cut a government job is astounding.


You realize the two are entirely unrelated, yes? If Obama were to stop flying right now and not leave the White House for the rest of his term, Medicare wouldn't get a  single penny more as a result.

My favorite example of sequester cut madness is to the Federal Public Defender. In a fit of genius, they're getting their budgets slashed, because the government is demanding across the board cuts on every single government program. So dozens of public defenders are going to get fired. But because legal representation is mandated by the Constitution, the government will  still be paying for it. Except now they're going to pay CJA Panel Attorneys at a higher rate than the federal public defenders, and the net result will be that the government will actually cost itself  more money by cutting the FPD budget. It's loony. And of course, the U.S. Attorneys are losing a dime of funding, and their hiring has continued apace. Fairness in the system!

/not bitter at all.
 
2013-07-22 02:23:03 AM  

SuperTramp: feckingmorons: rappy: Fecking you're the type that helps people just so you can flaunt it. Try doing it sometime without rubbing someone's nose in it.

Helping others to receive a pat on the back is pathetic.

You're truly the most annoying person on here. I like MarySue better. I've told you that several times.

You could never possibly understand why I do the things I do.

Oh, I really shouldn't. Really.

Oh to hell with it


I should have anticipated that.
 
2013-07-22 02:23:12 AM  

feckingmorons: Satan's Chocolate Starfish: I have this mental image of Socially Concerned Fecking waking up and looking in the mirror at Charitable Fecking and both of them asking "who the hell let Tea Party Fecking drive the bus last night?"

My beliefs and opinions have been consistent for decades. I've said them before and I'm just tired of being vilified because of them, as if somehow I'm keeping old people in Peoria from getting their pills.

Nobody here knows me, yet there are plenty of people in this thread who are happy to tell me what an asshole I am because I'm conservative. This country had degraded into a culture that devalues life and the individual. We can't even keep Chicago murder free for a day because the young adults of today place such a low value on life, yet I'm somehow the problem.

You people sure have some farked up priorities.


Well, I was going to point out again that I wasn't calling you an asshole and that I've tried to balance my comments with acknowledgment of your kindness and generosity to others . . . but then you just made me not want to care again. Whatever.
 
2013-07-22 02:23:31 AM  
themindiswatching
So this thread is why I don't really talk politics with anyone in real life any more. :/

But if you never do that IRL, it becomes stifling, like a room without air. Or a bladder at a concert with 20 people in line in front of you.
 
2013-07-22 02:23:54 AM  

feckingmorons: Well if we had a functioning economy and there were jobs people could have more savings. PPACA has screwed that possibility in the near future. Even the public library where I worked is no longer hiring anyone at more than 24 hours a week because they would have to insure them.

Kids can't get jobs because adults have to work in McDonalds, and Wendy's and Taco Bell to get enough money to support their families because of the restrictions on hours because of PPACA.


The problem is that of education. In 2012, 4.5% of people with bachelor's degrees were unemployed. I'm for making public universities free, myself.
 
2013-07-22 02:26:14 AM  
I'm not into reading walls of text. What is currently going on here?
 
2013-07-22 02:26:30 AM  

feckingmorons: Well if we had a functioning economy and there were jobs people could have more savings. PPACA has screwed that possibility in the near future. Even the public library where I worked is no longer hiring anyone at more than 24 hours a week because they would have to insure them.

Kids can't get jobs because adults have to work in McDonalds, and Wendy's and Taco Bell to get enough money to support their families because of the restrictions on hours because of PPACA.


The public library is government funded. The ACA has nothing to do with requiring  government employees to be provided health care. What that sounds like much more is that the library had their budget slashed, like thousands of libraries across the country, because of the economic downturn.

And the economy has been improving for several years now. All indicators are positive. We are no longer in a recession. Things aren't peachy, sure, but overall the economic health of the country has been increasing steadily for quite some time now.
 
2013-07-22 02:26:39 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: The answer to the health care dilemma is pretty simple:

National single payer system - Medicare for everyone

Premiums paid out of taxes at a progressive rate like income taxes (which I'd argue should be higher at the upper income levels as well)

A panel of doctors and experts sets the reimbursement costs at a fair level that lets medical facilities keep the doors open but still minimize costs, adjustments are made every couple years, maybe with a codified COLA adjustment in-between

All medical facilities are required by law to accept the government insurance

All doctors and medical facilities are required by law to perform any treatment to preserve life and quality of life for any patient who comes through the doors.  Appropriate exceptions can be made for the elderly for whom extreme measures would just slightly postpone death by natural causes.

Birth control, vasectomies, and other treatments that serve to save money in the long run would be covered.

Reconstructive plastic surgery (after burns, traumatic injuries, or to address defects such as hare lips) would be covered.

Vanity treatments like breast implants, calf implants, penis enlargements, etc, would have to come out of the patient's pocket


I also should have mentioned, something has to be done about the pharmaceutical lobby.  I get that drugs are expensive to develop, but we push way too many pills on way too many people, and there is too much marketing overhead cost included in medicine.

Maybe we should fund pharmaceutical development federally at various Universities with the resultant medications becoming public domain and open to generic production from day one, maybe we should just ban all pharmaceutical marketing and put severe limits on how pharma sales-reps can interact with doctors, I'm open so suggestions there.
 
2013-07-22 02:27:25 AM  

monty666: I'm not into reading walls of text. What is currently going on here?


An elephant has disappeared right in front of someone's very eyes.
 
2013-07-22 02:27:40 AM  

monty666: I'm not into reading walls of text. What is currently going on here?


Fecking is trying to pretend he's not a piece of sh*t by talking about how charitable he is
 
2013-07-22 02:28:16 AM  

feckingmorons: Stick it up your ass.

-Feckingmorons 7/22/2013


Truth stings, doesn't it?
 
2013-07-22 02:28:54 AM  

rappy: monty666: I'm not into reading walls of text. What is currently going on here?

Fecking is trying to pretend he's not a piece of sh*t by talking about how charitable he is


Heh, good luck for him with that.
 
2013-07-22 02:29:20 AM  
feckingmorons

Kids can't get jobs because adults have to work in McDonalds, and Wendy's and Taco Bell to get enough money to support their families because of the restrictions on hours because of PPACA.

No darling, for more than a decade, a majority of the job creation in this country has been in low wage occupations.
 
2013-07-22 02:29:23 AM  

Rincewind53: feckingmorons: So tell Obama not to spend $100MM flying to Africa. We can economize, but the hue and cry when we try to cut a government job is astounding.

You realize the two are entirely unrelated, yes? If Obama were to stop flying right now and not leave the White House for the rest of his term, Medicare wouldn't get a  single penny more as a result.

My favorite example of sequester cut madness is to the Federal Public Defender. In a fit of genius, they're getting their budgets slashed, because the government is demanding across the board cuts on every single government program. So dozens of public defenders are going to get fired. But because legal representation is mandated by the Constitution, the government will  still be paying for it. Except now they're going to pay CJA Panel Attorneys at a higher rate than the federal public defenders, and the net result will be that the government will actually cost itself  more money by cutting the FPD budget. It's loony. And of course, the U.S. Attorneys are losing a dime of funding, and their hiring has continued apace. Fairness in the system!

/not bitter at all.


Yes I realize they are not related, and they did a similar thing with Florida PD's budgets until they put up a stink. Luckily they are elected and can get away with that.

We are allowing our elected representatives to bullshiat us all day long with nonsense. They are doing things like investigating the IRS, immigration reform, what to do about Syria. Who gives a shiat about Syria, those people over there have been killing each other for millenia, we won't ever stop it.

Worry about this country. Worry that companies are closing left and right, worry that we have a federal rasin reserve that charges rasin farmers to grow rasins, worry about the shiat that keeps us from working. Worry about public employee pensions that are bankrupting cities and counties and find a solution that doesn't screw the worker or the city - find some middle ground. Quit growing the government for the purpose of taxing us.
 
2013-07-22 02:30:48 AM  

feckingmorons: Rincewind53: feckingmorons: Your posting stuff from the Huffington Post! Pravda is more believable.

Dude. I posted multiple articles from CNN, one from ABC, one directly to Politifact, and one to HuffPo. The HuffPo article was simply reporting the results of a survey done by a third party. If you'd like, here is the survey itself, including methodology. The study was reported on dozens of other news sources, including CNN, MSNBC, USA Today, and many others. Hell, this isn't exactly groundbreaking journalism. Even Glenn Beck's The Blaze has reported on how Americans have very little savings.

Don't shoot the messenger without listening to what he has to say.

Well if we had a functioning economy and there were jobs people could have more savings. PPACA has screwed that possibility in the near future. Even the public library where I worked is no longer hiring anyone at more than 24 hours a week because they would have to insure them.

Kids can't get jobs because adults have to work in McDonalds, and Wendy's and Taco Bell to get enough money to support their families because of the restrictions on hours because of PPACA.


The reason there are fewer jobs is because of downsizing, to save the CEOs money, and Americans have little in the bank because wages stagnate or go down, not in keeping with inflation. The rich have gotten MUCH richer, by taking money from the middle class, causing them to become more poor. Some even want to eliminate the minimum wage. I make the same amount of money now, as a chemist, that my dad made 30 years ago as a janitor. Don't tell me some greed isn't involved.
 
2013-07-22 02:31:11 AM  

themindiswatching: feckingmorons: Well if we had a functioning economy and there were jobs people could have more savings. PPACA has screwed that possibility in the near future. Even the public library where I worked is no longer hiring anyone at more than 24 hours a week because they would have to insure them.

Kids can't get jobs because adults have to work in McDonalds, and Wendy's and Taco Bell to get enough money to support their families because of the restrictions on hours because of PPACA.

The problem is that of education. In 2012, 4.5% of people with bachelor's degrees were unemployed. I'm for making public universities free, myself.


But they won't be free. Nothing is free (except butterflies) someone - or in this case- everyone has to pay for them. Eventually you run out of other people's money.
 
2013-07-22 02:31:30 AM  

monty666: I'm not into reading walls of text. What is currently going on here?


It's a Mexican standoff between Tea Party Fecking and Socially Conscious Fecking.

May the best personality win!
 
2013-07-22 02:32:58 AM  
feckingmorons:

Rincewind53: The fact of the matter is that the poor in America  do not have access to good health care.

They have access to it. We have a right to access to health care, we don't have a right to free healthcare.


In case you all forgot, FeckinM helped me negotiate a $4000 outrageous medical bill down to $1000.  And in case he's forgotten, that entire bill arose because my individual health insurance policy ($600/mo; reimburses at Medicare rates) made me go to the ER with a mangled finger.  There wasn't an English-speaking walk-in center available within a mile, and I wasn't able to drive since my right hand was the size of a melon.  So I took a cab to the ER, got X-rayed and splinted, and shoved out the door with just a doctor's name to see the next day.  (And a $10 Tylenol).

The next day, I called the doctor's office.  The day after that he saw me and charged me >$4000 for a 40-minute visit in which he looked at the x-ray, said yep it's broken, and wrote a scrip for physio. Fecks helped me on that, so thanks forever.

Since then, my PCP has moved out of my coverage area.  I have tried and tried to find a doctor who can see me for >10 minutes.  The only doctors who will take patients like me are doctors who work on salary, so university doctors.  They're the only ones willing to accept Medicare. And their waiting list is huge. It took nine months to get a first appointment with my former PCP, even though I was referred by a patient who was also a physio. That nine-month wait, coupled with the one-month wait to see the physiatrist, who immediately referred me to a neurologist (3 month wait for first appointment) nearly killed me.

I haven't seen a gyno in four years.  Don't know of one who accepts my insurance.

So, Fecks, tell me again how I have access to health care but I'm just scamming the system.  I don't. I'm not.
 
2013-07-22 02:34:34 AM  

SuperTramp: feckingmorons

Kids can't get jobs because adults have to work in McDonalds, and Wendy's and Taco Bell to get enough money to support their families because of the restrictions on hours because of PPACA.

No darling, for more than a decade, a majority of the job creation in this country has been in low wage occupations.


Isn't 40 hours a week at McD's better than a 20 hour cap? If we were competitive in the global market place we could still manufacture stuff. There are jobs that pay well that are onshore, services don't pay particularly well, but science does and we don't want to offshore all our technological advances. We don't want our drugs manufactured in Bangaldesh.

We can't be competitive because of legacy employee benefits. A new auto plant worker doesn't get he benefits a guy from 1970 gets because 7% of the cost of a new car goes to pay the legacy benefits. Our government employees legacy benefits are even worse - except of course our veterans we kind of screw them.
 
2013-07-22 02:35:11 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Maybe we should fund pharmaceutical development federally at various Universities with the resultant medications becoming public domain and open to generic production from day one, maybe we should just ban all pharmaceutical marketing and put severe limits on how pharma sales-reps can interact with doctors, I'm open so suggestions there.


In theory, sounds great. In practice, never gonna happen. Pharm lobby will shut that down at the first hint of it in DC.
 
2013-07-22 02:35:21 AM  

feckingmorons: Yes I realize they are not related, and they did a similar thing with Florida PD's budgets until they put up a stink. Luckily they are elected and can get away with that.

We are allowing our elected representatives to bullshiat us all day long with nonsense. They are doing things like investigating the IRS, immigration reform, what to do about Syria. Who gives a shiat about Syria, those people over there have been killing each other for millenia, we won't ever stop it.

Worry about this country. Worry that companies are closing left and right, worry that we have a federal rasin reserve that charges rasin farmers to grow rasins, worry about the shiat that keeps us from working. Worry about public employee pensions that are bankrupting cities and counties and find a solution that doesn't screw the worker or the city - find some middle ground. Quit growing the government for the purpose of taxing us


And that's the fundamental difference right there. You think the purpose of more government is to tax people. I think the purpose of larger government is to provide more services for people who need them. I think we're in fundamental agreement that a whole lot of government is badly managed, and priorities are often misplaced.

I may be wrong, and please correct me if I am, but I strongly get the sense from you that your  preferred solution would be to just  get rid of the programs. Whereas mine would be to  fix them.
 
2013-07-22 02:36:12 AM  
feckingmorons Worry about this country. Worry that companies are closing left and right,

The BIG companies are not closing, they're just heading toward countries that pay 25 cents an hour. The end result is that a LOT of Americans are out of work, and so they can't afford to spend a lot of money at the corner Mom/Pop restaurant, or get their hair cut as often, they head toward the BIG BOX store to save as much as they can, and the cycle repeats. Siphoning off our money for stuff made by the equivalent of slave labor. The only people ULTIMATELY winning in this scenario of the ones wearing satin and lace, and gilded crowns.
 
2013-07-22 02:36:13 AM  

feckingmorons: In case I wasn't clear:

[i1.sndcdn.com image 300x300]


Finally, an honest slogan from the GOP.
 
2013-07-22 02:36:57 AM  

ElizaDoolittle: So, Fecks, tell me again how I have access to health care but I'm just scamming the system.  I don't. I'm not.


I never said you were.

This isn't getting anywhere. I am just burning bridges with this. I think I better just leave.
 
2013-07-22 02:37:17 AM  

Rincewind53: And that's the fundamental difference right there. You think the purpose of more government is to tax people. I think the purpose of larger government is to provide more services for people who need them. I think we're in fundamental agreement that a whole lot of government is badly managed, and priorities are often misplaced.


But see, that would cost more money. And most likely someone would just make off with the extra money so we might as well not even try and just let private industry handle it because they'd never waste taxpayer money.
 
2013-07-22 02:37:49 AM  

Rincewind53: You think the purpose of more government is to tax people


Specifially the IRS as it relates to PPACA was the meaning of that.
 
2013-07-22 02:38:22 AM  

stilted: TuteTibiImperes: Maybe we should fund pharmaceutical development federally at various Universities with the resultant medications becoming public domain and open to generic production from day one, maybe we should just ban all pharmaceutical marketing and put severe limits on how pharma sales-reps can interact with doctors, I'm open so suggestions there.

In theory, sounds great. In practice, never gonna happen. Pharm lobby will shut that down at the first hint of it in DC.


Limiting pharma sales reps' interactions with doctors is going to put a lot of former cheerleaders out of work and diminish oral sex opportunities for doctors. That just isn't a nice outcome. It's too sad.
 
2013-07-22 02:39:35 AM  
feckingmorons

Isn't 40 hours a week at McD's better than a 20 hour cap?

Work a year or two on today's minimum wage trying to support yourself, much less a child, and get back to me with your answer.
 
2013-07-22 02:40:46 AM  
feckingmorons

This isn't getting anywhere. I am just burning bridges with this. I think I better just leave.

Or you could stay, and think of this as an intervention by people who care.
 
2013-07-22 02:41:03 AM  

feckingmorons: Rincewind53: You think the purpose of more government is to tax people

Specifially the IRS as it relates to PPACA was the meaning of that.


You and I both know that no matter what John Roberts says, the Individual Mandate isn't actually a tax, it's a requirement to purchase health insurance that carries a penalty for failure to comply.
 
2013-07-22 02:42:13 AM  
So you see, that's why no one could ever convince me to become conservative.
 
2013-07-22 02:42:59 AM  

feckingmorons: Isn't 40 hours a week at McD's better than a 20 hour cap?


You assume that people can actually get 40 hours at McDonalds, or even be able to take multiple part-time jobs to make up for it.
 
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