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(Fark)   Has anyone ever convinced you to change from being conservative to being liberal (or vice versa)?   (fark.com) divider line 737
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1364 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Jul 2013 at 2:49 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-22 01:35:26 AM  

Heathen: I wish I could get a HDHP plan now.  just give me catastrophic coverage and I can manage the rest


Send me an email and I'll try to help. I've helped a couple dozen TF'ers find affordable health insurance.
 
2013-07-22 01:35:51 AM  
Bush convinced me to become a libertarian.  Fartbongo reinforced that as having been a good idea.
 
2013-07-22 01:36:19 AM  

Rincewind53: I find that it's perfectly possible to understand  why people hold opinions, and yet still disapprove entirely of the opinions. For instance, after two years of studying Islamic terrorism as part of my job, I found it extremely easy to understand why a firey young Muslim might take up an AK-47 and go join the Haqqani network in Pakistan and try to go kill some Americans.

I may understand it, but I sure as hell don't  approve of it.


exactly.  and why i understand why someone thinks abortion is murder or guns should be banned or etc...

a line about being bitter and clinging to guns and religion comes to mind.
 
2013-07-22 01:36:21 AM  
feckingmorons you can't see the forest for the trees, baby.

one scammer at $21MM is nothing compared to what the BIG BOYS are sucking up EVERY GOT DAMN DAY. We;re being turned into a third world nation in the name of "privatization" and "free market enterprise" You mean to tell me you can't hear the sound of that giant vacuum cleaner?
 
2013-07-22 01:37:34 AM  

SuperTramp: You mean to tell me you can't hear the sound of that giant vacuum cleaner?


He's blind to it, cause he thinks he can buy his way into their little club.
 
2013-07-22 01:38:21 AM  

SuperTramp: You mean to tell me you can't hear the sound of that giant vacuum cleaner?


Those who benefit from it, aren't going to complain about it...
 
2013-07-22 01:39:15 AM  

feckingmorons: Satan's Chocolate Starfish: Because in order to accomplish any macro social goal, a plan must have some minimum standards. There isn't a chance in hell of doing that if the standard is "we are refraining from requiring a standard because it might affect the 0.0001% of the population who are like feckingmorons, the guy who wants to pay cash for his hospitalization and negotiate special cash prices with the anesthesiologist and the radiologist and the proctocologist."

In Florida you don't have to get the legally mandated insurance if you have $40K in escrow (a CD or something) and name the state as a beneficiary. You can opt out if you wish to take on the risk yourself.

We should be allowed to do that with our own health insurance, we should be allowed to opt out of a government program if we agree to, and are capable of accepting the risk.


Yeah, so who pays when your measly $40k is chewed up overnight by doctors and hospitals and pharma companies and malpractice insurers after a catastrophic event or illness? The taxpayers do.
 
2013-07-22 01:39:19 AM  
Smeggy Smurf
Bush convinced me to become a libertarian. Fartbongo reinforced that as having been a good idea.

Clearsil and move out of your mom's basement. Sunlight is a great disinfectant.
 
2013-07-22 01:40:11 AM  
Super tramp I think I love you.
 
2013-07-22 01:42:49 AM  

SuperTramp: feckingmorons you can't see the forest for the trees, baby.

one scammer at $21MM is nothing compared to what the BIG BOYS are sucking up EVERY GOT DAMN DAY. We;re being turned into a third world nation in the name of "privatization" and "free market enterprise" You mean to tell me you can't hear the sound of that giant vacuum cleaner?


Some people would rather harp on the 10 little people scamming their way to $25k over a period of years than turn the spotlight on government contractors who piss away that much every lunch hour buying off our elected representatives.
 
2013-07-22 01:42:54 AM  

SuperTramp: Smeggy Smurf
Bush convinced me to become a libertarian. Fartbongo reinforced that as having been a good idea.

Clearsil and move out of your mom's basement. Sunlight is a great disinfectant.


Thus proving once again that rapeublicans and emocrats are unfit for classification as intelligent life
 
2013-07-22 01:43:22 AM  
 
2013-07-22 01:43:40 AM  

Satan's Chocolate Starfish: feckingmorons: Rincewind53: Have you considered that it is because they  can't pay?

Yes, I've considered that. I've also seen their Gucci purses and wheeled them out to nicer cars than mine. Sure, there are some that can't pay, those people should be on Medicare (and they can go to regular doctors during office hours for non-emergency care and the vast majority of Medicare patients do just that).

There is a certain pride for many people in scamming the government. The biggest tax refund scammer around these parts was just sentenced to 21 years in prison, but she boasted that she stole more than $21MM and dared authorities to catch her. She called herself the 'first lady' of refund fraud.

You just get tired of seeing your tax money wasted. I pay all my taxes, I even pay use taxes on stuff I buy from Amazon because you're supposed to pay your taxes. When I see the IRS not cooperating with local law enforcement in refund fraud because of federal privacy laws and congress wasting their time on bullshiat I just get fed up.

Rincewind53: The fact of the matter is that the poor in America  do not have access to good health care.

They have access to it. We have a right to access to health care, we don't have a right to free healthcare.

That an intelligent guy like you who appears to have real compassion for others can spout nonsense like this is really sad. I'm starting to think you have multiple personalities.


What is sad about not wanting to see tax money wasted?

What is sad about the reality that we can't make doctors and nurses and hospitals work for free? They are entitled to wages for their work. We have the best medical care, research, and advancement in the world. If we start (or more correctly continue) to pay physicians $17.86 for a Medicaid office visit, and then impose new requirements on the for electronic medical records, mandatory screenings, review of their decision making by algorithm which requires them to spend uncompensated time that could be used on patient care justifying why they ordered a CT rather than a plain film, we will lose all physicians who will participate in these programs.

The UK has abysmal NHS, and most people who can afford it carry supplemental insurance - BUPA for instance. Do we really want to go there?
 
2013-07-22 01:43:48 AM  

feckingmorons: Yes, I've considered that. I've also seen their Gucci purses and wheeled them out to nicer cars than mine. Sure, there are some that can't pay, those people should be on Medicare (and they can go to regular doctors during office hours for non-emergency care and the vast majority of Medicare patients do just that).

There is a certain pride for many people in scamming the government. The biggest tax refund scammer around these parts was just sentenced to 21 years in prison, but she boasted that she stole more than $21MM and dared authorities to catch her. She called herself the 'first lady' of refund fraud.

You just get tired of seeing your tax money wasted. I pay all my taxes, I even pay use taxes on stuff I buy from Amazon because you're supposed to pay your taxes. When I see the IRS not cooperating with local law enforcement in refund fraud because of federal privacy laws and congress wasting their time on bullshiat I just get fed up.


I'm sorry, but your views on the issue are  completely distorted and counter-factual. Here are some statistics. In 2012,  80 million Americans didn't go to the doctor or access needed medical care because of cost. Currently,  40 million Americans "couldn't afford one or more of these services: medical care, prescription medicines, mental health care, dental care, or eyeglasses." Source.

Your viewpoint is distorted by this sort of anecdotal weirdness. It's like, there are 100 people in a room, and you see one of them steal something, and you say "My god, that room is filled with thieves!"  High estimates put Medicare fraud at roughly 8%. But bear in mind that this doesn't mean that eight percent of Medicare  beneficiaries are fraudulent, it means that eight percent of  payments are improper. As Politifact points out, this can be caused by anyone, the doctor, the patient, a third party: "If a doctor orders too many tests, or provides a service but submits the wrong payment code, those come under the umbrella of improper payments." The largest Medicare Fraud in history was done by Florida Governor Rick Scott, for God's sake. Large-scale Medicare fraud is done by corporations, most of the time, like this dialysis center that was just caught overbilling hundreds of millions of dollars.

You also completely missed my point about more serious medical problems not being covered by free medical care. If you're on chemotherapy and all you have is Medicare, you really think you're getting the best treatment? Well, after the recent government sequester, Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Where should those patients go?
 
2013-07-22 01:44:49 AM  

feckingmorons: You just get tired of seeing your tax money wasted


Taxes are a necessary evil. But if I'm going to pay them, I want the biggest bang for my buck. How about if instead of just handing out welfare, we add a mandatory education/job training component so the people that need it can get to a point that they don't need it any more? Even if you don't do shiat but stack books at the library or pick up sticks in the park, you can use that to demonstrate that you can be at a designated place at a designated time. Wouldn't that be better for everyone involved?
 
2013-07-22 01:45:25 AM  
Smeggy Smurf

Thus proving once again that rapeublicans and emocrats are unfit for classification as intelligent life

It's not easy being blue with a typing problem.
 
2013-07-22 01:46:45 AM  

SuperTramp: feckingmorons you can't see the forest for the trees, baby.

one scammer at $21MM is nothing compared to what the BIG BOYS are sucking up EVERY GOT DAMN DAY. We;re being turned into a third world nation in the name of "privatization" and "free market enterprise" You mean to tell me you can't hear the sound of that giant vacuum cleaner?


But government takeover of medical care is not the answer. We need to return to indemnity plans (like car insurance - it doesn't pay for oil changes) for medical care. The HMO concept failed.

People who can't afford to get insurance can get Medicaid or if they don't qualify for that other state or local programs funded by our taxes. We don't need the overhead and bureaucracy that the current iteration of PPACA (if it is ever actually implemented) will bring.

That and I don't really trust the federal government with my information anymore. I want to limit what they know and they don't need to know when my last tetanus shot was (17JUL2013).
 
2013-07-22 01:47:15 AM  

rappy: Idk. The hospital I'm working at has to essentially redesign our care to ensure we will be reimbursed under the new law.

Great news for patients, bad news for our CEO's


The CEOs  will get their money, one way or another.
 
2013-07-22 01:47:50 AM  

feckingmorons: Rincewind53: Have you considered that it is because they  can't pay?

Yes, I've considered that. I've also seen their Gucci purses and wheeled them out to nicer cars than mine. Sure, there are some that can't pay, those people should be on Medicare (and they can go to regular doctors during office hours for non-emergency care and the vast majority of Medicare patients do just that).

There is a certain pride for many people in scamming the government. The biggest tax refund scammer around these parts was just sentenced to 21 years in prison, but she boasted that she stole more than $21MM and dared authorities to catch her. She called herself the 'first lady' of refund fraud.

You just get tired of seeing your tax money wasted. I pay all my taxes, I even pay use taxes on stuff I buy from Amazon because you're supposed to pay your taxes. When I see the IRS not cooperating with local law enforcement in refund fraud because of federal privacy laws and congress wasting their time on bullshiat I just get fed up.

Rincewind53: The fact of the matter is that the poor in America  do not have access to good health care.

They have access to it. We have a right to access to health care, we don't have a right to free healthcare.


Your position on this, basically, is that no one should be allowed to benefit because a few people scam the system. It's okay with you to let poor children get sick and die as long as a few people don't take advantage of something they don't deserve, right?
 
2013-07-22 01:47:58 AM  

feckingmorons: Satan's Chocolate Starfish: feckingmorons: Rincewind53: Have you considered that it is because they  can't pay?

Yes, I've considered that. I've also seen their Gucci purses and wheeled them out to nicer cars than mine. Sure, there are some that can't pay, those people should be on Medicare (and they can go to regular doctors during office hours for non-emergency care and the vast majority of Medicare patients do just that).

There is a certain pride for many people in scamming the government. The biggest tax refund scammer around these parts was just sentenced to 21 years in prison, but she boasted that she stole more than $21MM and dared authorities to catch her. She called herself the 'first lady' of refund fraud.

You just get tired of seeing your tax money wasted. I pay all my taxes, I even pay use taxes on stuff I buy from Amazon because you're supposed to pay your taxes. When I see the IRS not cooperating with local law enforcement in refund fraud because of federal privacy laws and congress wasting their time on bullshiat I just get fed up.

Rincewind53: The fact of the matter is that the poor in America  do not have access to good health care.

They have access to it. We have a right to access to health care, we don't have a right to free healthcare.

That an intelligent guy like you who appears to have real compassion for others can spout nonsense like this is really sad. I'm starting to think you have multiple personalities.

What is sad about not wanting to see tax money wasted?

What is sad about the reality that we can't make doctors and nurses and hospitals work for free? They are entitled to wages for their work. We have the best medical care, research, and advancement in the world. If we start (or more correctly continue) to pay physicians $17.86 for a Medicaid office visit, and then impose new requirements on the for electronic medical records, mandatory screenings, review of their decision making by algorithm which requires them to spend uncompensated time that could be used on patient care justifying why they ordered a CT rather than a plain film, we will lose all physicians who will participate in these programs.

The UK has abysmal NHS, and most people who can afford it carry supplemental insurance - BUPA for instance. Do we really want to go there?


What is sad is you defaulting to Rush Limbaugh assholisms like all those poor people showing up at the ER in their Mercedes and designer clothes and Gucci bags looking to steal health care. What is sad is your philosophy that people are entitled to health care only if they can afford it. It stands in sharp contrast to the charity I've seen you show to people in need.
 
2013-07-22 01:47:59 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: Thus proving once again that rapeublicans and emocrats are unfit for classification as intelligent life


You're almost as bad as fecking.

That's not easy to pull off.
 
2013-07-22 01:49:35 AM  

angrymacface: rappy: Idk. The hospital I'm working at has to essentially redesign our care to ensure we will be reimbursed under the new law.

Great news for patients, bad news for our CEO's

The CEOs  will get their money, one way or another.


The Canadian taxpayer has probably paid mid six figures in the past year to keep me alive. You should thank them. I do every day.
 
2013-07-22 01:54:12 AM  

Rincewind53: Here are some statistics. In 2012,  80 million Americans didn't go to the doctor or access needed medical care because of cost.


How do they know what it costs? Call up a doctor's office and ask what you will have to pay for an exam and two standard blood tests. They can't tell you because of the nonsense that insurance/government programs/managed care is these days.

If patients knew that they had to spend $40 for a comprehensive (30 minute) exam and $6 for a CBC and $25 for a SMA-23 they could budget for those things. If the doctor knew he could count on getting paid those amounts they could actully charge those.

Now the doctor bills $167 and gets paid $19.23 for the visit. The lab gets $3.60 for the CBC and $14.44 for the SMA23 (those are real numbers for a Medicare patient) The patient is then billed about $17 dollars more for their 'co-payment' (a bullshiat term).

If I walk into Sears I pay the same price for a wrench as you and the guy down the street and the Pope if he were to stop in. The price fixing (or negotiated pricing) of managed care is bullshiat. It should be illegal.

Price things the same for everyone and it will be more affordable for everyone. Those who can't work because of disability, infirmity, or age we can cover with our social programs and we can better judge the costs and not force doctors, hospitals and drug companies to sell to government plans at below market rates.

Doctors will stop accepting Medicaid because it simply isn't enough money for the work they have to do.

Just because you get some insurance through a government sponsored exchange doesn't mean any doctor will take patients with that insurance.
 
2013-07-22 01:54:19 AM  
I did go through a libertarian phase in high school.

/I got better.
 
2013-07-22 01:54:44 AM  
feckingmorons

But government takeover of medical care is not the answer. We need to return to indemnity plans (like car insurance - it doesn't pay for oil changes) for medical care.
"oil change"

I remember the days when the birth control pill wasn't covered by insurance.

but you damn well know the holy trinity of viagra/cialis/levitra has ALWAYS been covered.
 
2013-07-22 01:56:53 AM  

EatenTheSun: feckingmorons: You just get tired of seeing your tax money wasted

Taxes are a necessary evil. But if I'm going to pay them, I want the biggest bang for my buck. How about if instead of just handing out welfare, we add a mandatory education/job training component so the people that need it can get to a point that they don't need it any more? Even if you don't do shiat but stack books at the library or pick up sticks in the park, you can use that to demonstrate that you can be at a designated place at a designated time. Wouldn't that be better for everyone involved?


Yes, I think job training would be great. I'm happy to have taxes pay for that. I'd like to see everyone working, and many productive businesses. Work is good, and everyone that is able to work should be afforded that opportunity. I've employed a number of people and I like hiring people, you see them smile when you ask them when they can start! It is good for them and good for me too. Work is mutually beneficial for the employee, the employer, and society.
 
2013-07-22 01:57:03 AM  

Rincewind53: I'm sorry, but your views on the issue are  completely distorted and counter-factual. Here are some statistics. In 2012,  80 million Americans didn't go to the doctor or access needed medical care because of cost. Currently,  40 million Americans "couldn't afford one or more of these services: medical care, prescription medicines, mental health care, dental care, or eyeglasses." Source.


The old people around here cross the border to Tijuana to get medications and medical care.

/and it's still cheaper than here, even if they have to pay cash.
 
2013-07-22 01:57:29 AM  

angrymacface: rappy: Idk. The hospital I'm working at has to essentially redesign our care to ensure we will be reimbursed under the new law.

Great news for patients, bad news for our CEO's

The CEOs  will get their money, one way or another.


If the CEOs try to f*ck around with this, the hospital will face being shut down.

That will not happen. Have a little faith.
 
2013-07-22 01:57:57 AM  

SuperTramp: feckingmorons

But government takeover of medical care is not the answer. We need to return to indemnity plans (like car insurance - it doesn't pay for oil changes) for medical care.
"oil change"

I remember the days when the birth control pill wasn't covered by insurance.

but you damn well know the holy trinity of viagra/cialis/levitra has ALWAYS been covered.


Those shouldn't be covered. Dick drugs have no other medical purpose, they should be a cash only proposition. Birth control pills do have other medical uses.

I remember when the birth control pill was four bucks a month.
 
2013-07-22 01:59:50 AM  

rappy: If the CEOs try to f*ck around with this, the hospital will face being shut down.

That will not happen. Have a little faith.


And if it is shut down, they'll find another to suck money from.
 
2013-07-22 01:59:53 AM  

Rincewind53: You also completely missed my point about more serious medical problems not being covered by free medical care. If you're on chemotherapy and all you have is Medicare, you really think you're getting the best treatment? Well, after the recent government sequester, Cancer clinics are turning away thousands of Medicare patients. Where should those patients go?


That's sort of what he's doing: ignoring the points he doesn't want to answer.

feckingmorons: But government takeover of medical care is not the answer.


Then it's a good thing that's not what's happened.

feckingmorons: That and I don't really trust the federal government with my information anymore. I want to limit what they know and they don't need to know when my last tetanus shot was (17JUL2013).


You don't want the government to know, and yet you post it on Fark. It really isn't about privacy is it, just your irrational fear of something called "big government?" Made up of officials that you probably helped to elect.
 
2013-07-22 02:00:48 AM  

Satan's Chocolate Starfish: What is sad is you defaulting to Rush Limbaugh assholisms like all those poor people showing up at the ER in their Mercedes and designer clothes and Gucci bags looking to steal health care


I worked in a big city ER (several cities I even worked at St. Johns in St. Louis for 13 weeks on a contract) and I've seen it myself. Sure it is not everyone, but one out of 100 unfunded patients quite easily.

I don't know a real Gucci bag from a fake one, but still they had them.

I'm not defaulting to anyone else's opinion and I don't particularly like being called an asshole.
 
2013-07-22 02:01:12 AM  
feckingmorons Work is mutually beneficial for the employee, the employer, and society.

I'm sure the Messrs Koch say that, too
 
2013-07-22 02:01:47 AM  

rappy: If the CEOs try to f*ck around with this, the hospital will face being shut down.

That will not happen. Have a little faith.


Yep.
 
2013-07-22 02:03:06 AM  

feckingmorons: Satan's Chocolate Starfish: What is sad is you defaulting to Rush Limbaugh assholisms like all those poor people showing up at the ER in their Mercedes and designer clothes and Gucci bags looking to steal health care

I worked in a big city ER (several cities I even worked at St. Johns in St. Louis for 13 weeks on a contract) and I've seen it myself. Sure it is not everyone, but one out of 100 unfunded patients quite easily.

I don't know a real Gucci bag from a fake one, but still they had them.

I'm not defaulting to anyone else's opinion and I don't particularly like being called an asshole.


I didn't call you an asshole. I said your bad personalities are spouting Rush Limbaugh assholisms that would dismay your kind and charitable personalities.
 
2013-07-22 02:03:08 AM  

feckingmorons: but you damn well know the holy trinity of viagra/cialis/levitra has ALWAYS been covered.

Those shouldn't be covered. Dick drugs have no other medical purpose, they should be a cash only proposition. Birth control pills do have other medical uses.


So does Viagra.
 
2013-07-22 02:03:45 AM  
In high school and the first couple years of college I considered myself a republican, but that was mostly due to lack of research.  I saw republicans as the party of rich people, and I wanted to be rich, and I thought 'yeah, dang all those parasites just cashing all of those welfare checks and never working a day in their lives'.  I was never socially conservative, and when I first registered to vote, I registered as a libertarian, but in my defense, my mental image of libertarians were the guys that smoked weed in front of the coffee place and talked about philosophy and plays well past midnight.

Then I actually bothered looking up what the parties stood for, and getting closer to entering the real world I understood that welfare queens were a particularly cruel myth, and that the Democratic party was the one that actually stood up for the rights of the middle class and the average worker.  I changed my voter registration to Democrat and haven't looked back.  The continual march of the right into religious fundamentalism has made that decision look smarter every day since.

I've always been socially liberal - I've always felt that gay people should have every right afforded to heterosexual people, including marriage, I've always been pro-immigration, I've always been pro-science and pro-stem cell research, and I've been pro-choice since I bothered to look up the actual time-line of a pregnancy and the length of time it takes for what is essentially a medical condition to turn into a child.

I suppose I still align myself with a couple right-wing talking points - I fully support Israel, their rights to the land they won in the Six Day War, and supported the war on terrorism (though I'll admit we could have done it in a much better fashion and without losing as many American lives and giving as much money as we have to defense contractors).

I also have beliefs that don't align with any of the major parties - I believe that we need to seriously re-evaluate our copyright laws and patent system, as they're stifling innovation, neutering the public domain, and inadvertently allowing orphan works to disappear forever due to issues with contacting rights holders, I believe that our current surveillance state has gone way too far and that the erosion of the 4th amendment deserves a lot more attention than the supposed attacks on the 2nd, and that we need policymakers with a solid understanding of technology in office so that initiatives like Net Neutrality get the attention they deserve.
 
2013-07-22 02:04:51 AM  

themindiswatching: rappy: If the CEOs try to f*ck around with this, the hospital will face being shut down.

That will not happen. Have a little faith.

Yep.


That is not due to greedy CEO's from what I gathered in that article so... that is irrelevant to our conversation. Thanks for playing !
 
2013-07-22 02:05:06 AM  

Abacus9: That's sort of what he's doing: ignoring the points he doesn't want to answer.


This isn't about me covering each point. The question is have you shifted your political views.

Yet every time I've posted mine I've been attacked, and just like your attacking me for not making a counterpoint to every point someone else makes.

You know what, fark you people. I don't have to defend myself and I sure as hell don't have to help anyone of Total Fark. I've been nice, I've paid people's bills, I've helped explain landlord/tenant problems, I've paid people's rent. I've paid for veterinary medicines.

fark all of you who don't respect my opinions, you don't have to agree, but you could be civil.
 
2013-07-22 02:05:27 AM  

feckingmorons: How do they know what it costs? Call up a doctor's office and ask what you will have to pay for an exam and two standard blood tests. They can't tell you because of the nonsense that insurance/government programs/managed care is these days.

If patients knew that they had to spend $40 for a comprehensive (30 minute) exam and $6 for a CBC and $25 for a SMA-23 they could budget for those things. If the doctor knew he could count on getting paid those amounts they could actully charge those.

Now the doctor bills $167 and gets paid $19.23 for the visit. The lab gets $3.60 for the CBC and $14.44 for the SMA23 (those are real numbers for a Medicare patient) The patient is then billed about $17 dollars more for their 'co-payment' (a bullshiat term).

If I walk into Sears I pay the same price for a wrench as you and the guy down the street and the Pope if he were to stop in. The price fixing (or negotiated pricing) of managed care is bullshiat. It should be illegal.

Price things the same for everyone and it will be more affordable for everyone. Those who can't work because of disability, infirmity, or age we can cover with our social programs and we can better judge the costs and not force doctors, hospitals and drug companies to sell to government plans at below market rates.

Doctors will stop accepting Medicaid because it simply isn't enough money for the work they have to do.

Just because you get some insurance through a government sponsored exchange doesn't mean any doctor will take patients with that insurance.


Yes. The current system is arcane and leads to overbilling.  And therefore poor people should not be allowed to have access to it?

But fine, if you're in an anecdote-y mood: My girlfriend recently slipped on some wet tile in her house and fell over backwards, cracking her head on the floor. She was in pretty bad pain, and was worried that she had a concussion. Because she has health insurance, and because she has a job that allows flexibility, she was able to go to the doctor the next morning and have her head checked out. Thankfully, she did not have a concussion.

But if she had been poor, and didn't have health insurance, and worked at a job that didn't have flexible sick time,  she wouldn't have been able to do that. So if she had a concussion, it might have gone completely untreated, simply because of costs.That's a really basic, small example of the kind of things that happen when you live in poverty.

You also like numbers, so here are some. The federal poverty line in America, for a family of four, is $23,283 income a year. For a  family of four, saying "Well, it'll just be $80 to get a checkup," isn't exactly saying "Wow, it'll be a cakewalk!" And god forbid Mama gets pregnant again, or Timmy breaks his leg, or Dad injures himself on the job. As  kiwimoogle just found out, the cost of having a baby is  thousands of dollars.  Seventy-Five Percent of Americans don't have enough money in savings to pay for six months of expenses if they lost their income stream. That $40 that you dismissed out of hand is a  lot of money to millions of people in this country.

And finally, you completely ignore my point about medicare fraud, and for the second time completely ignore my point about complicated medicale care like chemotherapy, dialysis, or treatment for any kind of chronic disease.
 
2013-07-22 02:06:52 AM  
feckingmorons
Those shouldn't be covered. Dick drugs have no other medical purpose, they should be a cash only proposition. Birth control pills do have other medical uses.

Abacus9: So does Viagra.

Limpdickedness Maybe we should the Democrats in Congress a trainload.
 
2013-07-22 02:08:18 AM  
HEY DEMOCRATS!!!

GET IT UP
 
2013-07-22 02:08:24 AM  

Rincewind53: As  kiwimoogle just found out, the cost of having a baby is  thousands of dollars.  Seventy-Five Percent of Americans don't have enough money in savings to pay for six months of expenses if they lost their income stream. That $40 that you dismissed out of hand is a  lot of money to millions of people in this country.


What did you send her? I got the breast pump and two cartons of diapers?
 
2013-07-22 02:09:07 AM  
Fecking you're the type that helps people just so you can flaunt it. Try doing it sometime without rubbing someone's nose in it.

Helping others to receive a pat on the back is pathetic.
 
2013-07-22 02:09:29 AM  

feckingmorons: In case I wasn't clear:

[i1.sndcdn.com image 300x300]


Look,  fecking, I think you're a really nice guy, I really do. You've consistently shown that you have a big heart, and that you're willing to help people in need.

I think that's why you're catching an air of frustration from a lot of people here. You're clearly a smart guy, and yet it appears to me as if you have these huge blind spots. It's like there's an elephant right in front of you, and we're pointing to it, and you're saying "What elephant? I see a mouse!"

Why do you think I'm citing sources to you? It's not because I'm trying to make you feel bad, it's because I'm hoping to erase that blind spot.
 
2013-07-22 02:10:06 AM  

Rincewind53: dialysis


There is a program specifically for End Stage Renal Disease so what are you talking about dialysis.

Don't just make shiat up.
 
2013-07-22 02:10:56 AM  
rappy
Fecking you're the type that helps people just so you can flaunt it. Try doing it sometime without rubbing someone's nose in it.

Helping others to receive a pat on the back is pathetic.


Man, I'm so glad I don't need to steal a taco.
 
2013-07-22 02:11:13 AM  

Rincewind53: feckingmorons: In case I wasn't clear:

[i1.sndcdn.com image 300x300]

Look,  fecking, I think you're a really nice guy, I really do. You've consistently shown that you have a big heart, and that you're willing to help people in need.

I think that's why you're catching an air of frustration from a lot of people here. You're clearly a smart guy, and yet it appears to me as if you have these huge blind spots. It's like there's an elephant right in front of you, and we're pointing to it, and you're saying "What elephant? I see a mouse!"

Why do you think I'm citing sources to you? It's not because I'm trying to make you feel bad, it's because I'm hoping to erase that blind spot.


Your posting stuff from the Huffington Post! Pravda is more believable.
 
2013-07-22 02:11:13 AM  
I don't think so. I'll listen, I like hearing the other side(s), it is educational at the very least. I used to be very republican, neocon even maybe. But it was life experiences, not smarmy bleeding hearts that dragged me away from that. I got tired of the wars, and the republican's bigger government solution to big government. I realized the drug war was a sham when I fell into an addiction. I realized we simply can't keep illegal immigrants out and I was tired of hearing about desiccated bodies in the desert. And I got really tired of this evangelical aspect of the party that was pulling the craziest, un-Christlike stings.

I'm still pretty right wing in my personal beliefs but I respect individual liberties (including abortion!) more than I respect either party. So I vote all over the place and criticize everyone, like a jerk.
 
2013-07-22 02:11:56 AM  

syrynxx: Yeah, when Bush the Younger got the power to arrest and execute without trial any American citizen, just by naming them a terrorist.  F*ck you Obama for not having the balls to grant habeus corpus to everyone in Guantanamo Bay.  Who am I going to vote for now?  It's obvious the political parties are both corrupt.


Bingo! Just like pro wrestling. People have to smarten up and toss both R & D out of power.
 
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