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(Salon)   Back in this columnist's day, trolling meant something   (salon.com) divider line 63
    More: Interesting, epileptics, pejorative, chopped salads, walled gardens  
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4075 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Jul 2013 at 5:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-21 04:06:56 PM
I've been saying this for a year, and it sucks that now I share an opinion with a Salon writer.

Fark headline search:
"troll": 40 results http://www.fark.com/hlsearch?qq=troll&is_using_js=1&o=1&limlt=0&limw p= -1&limtt=0&comment=&url=&email=&name=&website=
"trolling": 23 results http://www.fark.com/hlsearch?qq=trolling&is_using_js=1&o=1&limlt=0&l im wp=-1&limtt=0&comment=&url=&email=&name=&website=
"trolls": 44 results http://www.fark.com/hlsearch?qq=trolls&is_using_js=1&o=1&limlt=0&lim wp =-1&limtt=0&comment=&url=&email=&name=&website=

Since I'm so cool, you can see me complaining about the term in a few of those threads.
I'm single, ladies.
 
2013-07-21 04:11:47 PM
If everyone is a troll, maybe no one is.

Meh, 6/10. Short, compact, to the point. Bound to get at least a few bites.

Mostly just came to say... Geek Tab? WTF?! How is this NOT cross-posted to the Politics Tab?

In terms of the article, I have often heard lamentations that the word "troll" has been over-used into meaninglessness and while I do see it being misapplied in a lot of instances it is also a case of the word picking up a more complex definition and additional nuances as time goes on.
 
2013-07-21 04:41:33 PM
I agree with the article in that it's hard to call a published article, magazine cover, or headline as trolling.  Provocative, perhaps, but there's nothing wrong with ideas that go against the established view if you can support them, and headlines/covers are meant to get your attention as well as occasionally to get publicity - catching you off guard can be a worthwhile goal.

In terms of internet forums it gets a bit dicier.  Arguing a position isn't trolling as long as you can back it up.  shiatting all over a thread with personal attacks, opinions masked as facts, and comments specifically designed to raise the ire of other participants without actually adding anything worthwhile to the discussion is trolling.

I suppose there's also a third category of 'prank trolls', things that don't advance the discussion but are meant in fun for the enjoyment of all (except for perhaps the target).
 
2013-07-21 05:10:46 PM
jiminy jillikers
 
2013-07-21 05:25:57 PM
A lot of accused "trolling" is very clearly sarcasm, satire and mockery that gets incorrectly interpreted by the barely literate masses, whose parents and low grading standards in schools and colleges have convinced them that they're veritable Einsteins.  And, let's face it, this whole "online thing" is still relatively new to a lot of people, so having only recently become familiar with the concept of trolls and trolling, they see trolls and trolling in everything.
 
2013-07-21 05:31:38 PM

MrHappyRotter: A lot of accused "trolling" is very clearly sarcasm, satire and mockery that gets incorrectly interpreted by the barely literate masses, whose parents and low grading standards in schools and colleges have convinced them that they're veritable Einsteins.  And, let's face it, this whole "online thing" is still relatively new to a lot of people, so having only recently become familiar with the concept of trolls and trolling, they see trolls and trolling in everything.


^^^
It takes a lot of effort and intelligence to say the exact wrong thing to someone.  The problem is when they don't identify your sharp wit and merely think that you are dim.

Also, FTA:
"Originally, it was, like, racist Reddit kids going into <a data-cke-saved-href="http://www.reddit.com/r/blackgirls">r/blackgirls - that was old-school trolling "

If you think that the original internet trolling occurred on Reddit, you need your license to write stories about the internet revoked.
 
2013-07-21 05:34:55 PM
Oh, I'm sorry, but this is abuse. Ah yes- you'll want 12A, just along the corridor. You're most welcome.

/LOL n3wb
 
2013-07-21 05:36:36 PM

Mr Rogers is aroused: TuteTibiImperes: I agree with the article in that it's hard to call a published article, magazine cover, or headline as trolling.  Provocative, perhaps, but there's nothing wrong with ideas that go against the established view if you can support them, and headlines/covers are meant to get your attention as well as occasionally to get publicity - catching you off guard can be a worthwhile goal.

In terms of internet forums it gets a bit dicier.  Arguing a position isn't trolling as long as you can back it up.  shiatting all over a thread with personal attacks, opinions masked as facts, and comments specifically designed to raise the ire of other participants without actually adding anything worthwhile to the discussion is trolling.

I suppose there's also a third category of 'prank trolls', things that don't advance the discussion but are meant in fun for the enjoyment of all (except for perhaps the target).

i have been called a troll almost every day.  I'm on my second alt.  saying someone with a unorthodox view on a subject is a troll is just the new, lazy, ad hominem attack.  It's the very definition of ad hominem actually.  The opposing viewpoint holder jumps right to 'insulting' the other side of the argument by calling them a troll.

I have never sought to 'troll' anyone.  Yet I'm supposedly the poster child.  Truth is- I was neglected thoroughly as a crotchfruit, molested and abused.  I have a lot of hate in me.  I also have some pretty interesting lenses in which i see the world.  I didn't ask to be so abnormal in my life path.  It was a gift though.  I dont get emotionally attached to much.  I can look at tragedy and make jokes, and ask tough honest questions.  That makes me logical, not a troll.  The idea of using an ad hominem attack on all that oppose us is a slippery slope that won't end well for civilization.


This post made my penis stand up.
 
2013-07-21 05:44:21 PM
Just wait until he's smart enough to get "double-reverse" trolling.

Farking amateur.
 
2013-07-21 05:52:41 PM
memecrunch.com
 
2013-07-21 05:55:41 PM
Wait... they think trolling was invented on reddit?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-07-21 05:59:42 PM
Annoying statements are trolling in much the way all unwanted email is spam.
 
2013-07-21 06:00:34 PM
"Originally, it was, like, racist Reddit kids going into r/blackgirls - that was old-school trolling, a very specific online behavior," said Matt Buchanan

HJAHAHHAHA  Originally/!?!

You weren't born for Originally.
 
2013-07-21 06:07:56 PM
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-07-21 06:12:56 PM
There is a lot of trolls nowadays. Perhaps I am just nostalgic for the yesteryears of the interwebs but there do seem to be a lot of people who just want attention, now matter how negative. It's fine to go against the pack but there should be some sort of reasoning behind any viewpoint. My opinion is that a lot of people want to be like Stephen Colbert but aren't smart enough to do satire.
 
2013-07-21 06:13:34 PM
This guy sounds like a circumcised, breastfeeding, tattooed hipster. I almost spilled my Macallan 18 and Mountain Dew after reading this tripe.
 
2013-07-21 06:18:25 PM
Maybe there are more articles being labeled as trolling because the journalistic bar is so much lower than it used to be, thanks to the proliferation of sites like Red State, the World Nut Daily, Breitbart, and Free Republic.
 
2013-07-21 06:18:51 PM
I saw a 12 year old kid with a trollface t-shirt with the text "u mad, bro?" on it. Needless to say, yes I was mad. I wonder if the people who made that shirt did that on purpose or just made the shirt to make money.
 
2013-07-21 06:24:16 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-21 06:34:41 PM
Have to agree with the article.  The word 'troll' in many contexts has just become this Crimestop thing where an outsider with an opinion radically different from the echo chamber is immediately labeled a troll so no one has to confront the uncomfortable possibility that the locally accepted dogma is wrong.

Better to label the heretic an idiot and chase him away with logic and facts (which you should easily be able to do, right?).  If he refuses to acknowledge or attempt to rebut those, or moves on to less productive modes of communication, then he's moving into Troll territory (or at least Unreachable Moron territory)

/I troll relentlessly, so it irritates me when people call me a troll when I'm not
//never on fark though
///(at least not with this moniker)
 
2013-07-21 06:38:15 PM
I hold that trolling is attention seeking by being deliberately annoying (or annoyingly stupid) to the point that some people feel they have to respond.

Of course media sites want attention so they engage in or straightly-faced report on it. Why do you think "top 10 lists" are so popular? Because people will complain that some item (pizza, teen starlet, or what ever the list is about) is absent or mis-ranked.

Rush Limbaugh has taken trolling to post-modern trolling. He often justifies his positions not on any internal merits but just because they annoy liberals. His ditto-head audience eats this up in the hope that they too can use them to annoy liberals, meanwhile liberals ignore him - which means he is spoofing his audience by only appearing to annoy.

// is calling Limbaugh's behavior "post-modern trolling" and attempt to troll those who claim to understand postmodernism?
 
2013-07-21 06:41:59 PM

HairBolus: // is calling Limbaugh's behavior "post-modern trolling" and attempt to troll those who claim to understand postmodernism?


I'm incredulous at your metanarrative.
 
2013-07-21 06:45:19 PM
 
2013-07-21 06:48:50 PM

Rapmaster2000: This guy sounds like a circumcised, breastfeeding, tattooed hipster. I almost spilled my Macallan 18 and Mountain Dew after reading this tripe.


You drink Macallan 18 with Ironbru you damned troglodyte.
 
2013-07-21 06:51:22 PM
I stoped reading when they quoted someone from buzzfeed
 
2013-07-21 06:54:02 PM

RogermcAllen: Also, FTA:
"Originally, it was, like, racist Reddit kids going into <a data-cke-saved-href="http://www.reddit.com/r/blackgirls">r/blackgirls - that was old-school trolling "

If you think that the original internet trolling occurred on Reddit, you need your license to write stories about the internet revoked.


No farking shiat.  I was trolling Europeans in alt.nuke.the.usa long before the idea of Reddit even existed.
 
2013-07-21 06:56:02 PM

HairBolus: I hold that trolling is attention seeking by being deliberately annoying (or annoyingly stupid) to the point that some people feel they have to respond.


That's not trolling, that's attention whoring.  A skilled troll is one who only has to post once and then sits back while everyone else unloads on each other.
 
2013-07-21 07:17:58 PM
"I think that it started with a pretty clear definition - which is somebody who goes into a place that shares a particular ideology and says something they don't believe just to get a reaction,"

Yep. And this is still the proper definition.
 
2013-07-21 07:22:27 PM

worlddan: "I think that it started with a pretty clear definition - which is somebody who goes into a place that shares a particular ideology and says something they don't believe just to get a reaction,"

Yep. And this is still the proper definition.


Except in so many cases, "sharing a particular ideology"  = belief in facts.
 
2013-07-21 07:30:49 PM
Call me a troll, but if British aristocrats are willing to pay good money for fresh meat, why SHOULDN'T the Irish sell them their babies?!!!!11!
 
2013-07-21 07:33:50 PM
I've always understood it as being a joke for insiders in an online community. It's meant to get a reaction from the outsiders who aren't in on the joke.

Of course, the last 5 years or so has seen a rapid expansion on many online communities, where a coherent sense of community has subsequently been lost. So that's why we have this retarded broad definition of trolling now.

People who say they get called trolls because they are "too logical" or whatever, I suspect you are just assholes. I've seen a lot of people claim the high ground of rationality in online arguments, but in reality they dismiss opponents arguments for emotional reasons, or just refuse to recognize any kind of emotional dimension to the argument at all. And they thrive because a lot of the time, people who understand the issue well just don't want to argue with another bullheaded cocksucker who is out to prove how smart he is.

And count me in with the people saying that there's a lot of dicks out for any kind of attention, positive or negative, these days. Where the fark did these people come from? They all hang out in packs, too, to mutually cover their insecurities. They are all super insecure too - they are just posturing as being the untouchable "troll", but in reality they closely monitor anything said about them. And they can never let a slight against them go unanswered.
 
2013-07-21 07:37:35 PM

MrHappyRotter: A lot of accused "trolling" is very clearly sarcasm, satire and mockery that gets incorrectly interpreted by the barely literate masses, whose parents and low grading standards in schools and colleges have convinced them that they're veritable Einsteins.  And, let's face it, this whole "online thing" is still relatively new to a lot of people, so having only recently become familiar with the concept of trolls and trolling, they see trolls and trolling in everything.


But isn't that what happens when you convince people that literacy and education are good things?  You sit around and read books all day, instead of getting things done or having sex.  So now, when you disprove the entire history of liberal thought in 100 words or less, they claim you are "trolling".  It is hilarious!  And the entire body of modern government has been built on facts, evidence, logic, and reason!  Is it any wonder society is so screwed up?
 
2013-07-21 07:39:28 PM

spamdog: I've always understood it as being a joke for insiders in an online community. It's meant to get a reaction from the outsiders who aren't in on the joke.

Of course, the last 5 years or so has seen a rapid expansion on many online communities, where a coherent sense of community has subsequently been lost. So that's why we have this retarded broad definition of trolling now.

People who say they get called trolls because they are "too logical" or whatever, I suspect you are just assholes. I've seen a lot of people claim the high ground of rationality in online arguments, but in reality they dismiss opponents arguments for emotional reasons, or just refuse to recognize any kind of emotional dimension to the argument at all. And they thrive because a lot of the time, people who understand the issue well just don't want to argue with another bullheaded cocksucker who is out to prove how smart he is.

And count me in with the people saying that there's a lot of dicks out for any kind of attention, positive or negative, these days. Where the fark did these people come from? They all hang out in packs, too, to mutually cover their insecurities. They are all super insecure too - they are just posturing as being the untouchable "troll", but in reality they closely monitor anything said about them. And they can never let a slight against them go unanswered.


Trolling for trolls. Nice.
 
2013-07-21 07:40:05 PM
nofishleft.files.wordpress.com

Am I doing it right?
 
2013-07-21 07:43:17 PM

Mike_LowELL: But isn't that what happens when you convince people that literacy and education are good things? You sit around and read books all day, instead of getting things done or having sex. So now, when you disprove the entire history of liberal thought in 100 words or less, they claim you are "trolling". It is hilarious! And the entire body of modern government has been built on facts, evidence, logic, and reason! Is it any wonder society is so screwed up?


Gotta agree with this cool dude.  Liberals are like locusts.  They're moving from planet to planet...their whole civilization.  After they've consumed every natural resource they move on...and we're next.
 
2013-07-21 07:50:06 PM
If there is a problem with it having too many meanings it needs to become a compound word.

aggro troll -The classic type, sort of an a-hole.  Mean spirited and will put there name out there as much as possible.
comedy troll -By using Poes law creatively, is funny and loved.  Hard to find.  (thumbs up to you pocket martial artist in black)
Poe'slawtroll - Sometimes it is hard to determine if serious or not.
astrotroll - Often found in political boards around election time and hot environmental topics, either in the profession or a paid for their services
notatroll troll -This person is serious, and don't you dare call them a troll.
friendly troll - Uses charm and a friendly style to take over a discussion topic.
subtle troll- Will hit on weird little topics to get people to bite to see if serious.  Green Day is a great punk band.  Syfy is a great channel.  Gary Johnson is a viable presidential candidate.
good cop/bad cop troll - will find gullible suckers using multiple accounts to paint the mark into a corner and then tear them down, because they can.
Block user troll - Only wants to hear their own style of communication and opinion, and if slightly annoyed by commenter, since they can't downvote them, will block them creating their own reality.
Wedge topic troll - Who was the best host on MST3k, George W Bush will be remembered as a great president, ect.

This is not meant to be an inclusive list, but throwing it out there.
 
2013-07-21 08:08:51 PM
Just like anything, buzzwords are something people come up with to make a situation easier for those in the know. Example-Foodie: A persona who enjoys food enough to only eat things that titillate the palette and is good for you.

Trolling is just a word the internet uses to mean being a deliberate asshole to either get his rocks off, or draw add revenue. These assholes usually use lies or hyperbole to troll. Being wrong does not make you a troll. Being opinionated does not make you a troll.

MrHappyRotter: A lot of accused "trolling" is very clearly sarcasm, satire and mockery that gets incorrectly interpreted by the barely literate masses, whose parents and low grading standards in schools and colleges have convinced them that they're veritable Einsteins.  And, let's face it, this whole "online thing" is still relatively new to a lot of people, so having only recently become familiar with the concept of trolls and trolling, they see trolls and trolling in everything.


Pretty much ^this. The only time it's painfully obvious if you have a troll is if you have some other motive for aggravating people. Westboro "Church" is the most readily example I can think of. Piss people off in a constitutionally protected matter. Provoke them to get into fights via verbal abuse, then sue the pants off the city if the police "fail to adequately protect the parade demonstration". They really don't care about them thar gays, shrimp or whatever shiat they are doing. It's pretty obvious, seeing as how the whole family is lawyers. It's their idiom.

The New Yorker is also a second for trolling IRL. "Satire" is only satire if you actually are making commentary on a real thing, not something imagined.
 
2013-07-21 08:41:25 PM
FTFA:   "REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT   REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT  REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDD IT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT RE DDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDITREDDIT REDDIT REDDIT RED DIT REDDIT REDDITREDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT REDD ITREDDIT REDDIT ..."

Someone tell this person the Internet is bigger than they think.
 
2013-07-21 09:14:58 PM

Land Ark: [nofishleft.files.wordpress.com image 220x299]

Am I doing it right?



worlddan: "I think that it started with a pretty clear definition - which is somebody who goes into a place that shares a particular ideology and says something they don't believe just to get a reaction,"

Yep. And this is still the proper definition.



You guys are both wrong for the same reason.  The picture is of a trawler.  On a trawler you cast a wide net and just beat the shiat out of everything to grab as much as you can.  You actively seek the prey (attention whoring).

When trolling, you carefully set bait on your hooks and pull them through the water waiting for the prey to bite.  When someone reads a good troll, they shouldn't start instantly start gnashing away at their keyboard to respond.  The troll should just easily slip into their mind and fester until they just can't stand it anymore.  Like a fish, they get hooked without ever knowing what happened.
 
2013-07-21 09:33:46 PM
Trolling as a fine art was developed long before the world wide web or even usenet. Before that it was an expensive hobby which required access to a printing press and a method of distribution. The advent of the BBS and then Usenet just allowed it to flourish and tactics to be refined.
The WWW just allowed anyone with a keyboard and an anonymous account to be a slavering idiot making it harder to filter out the real trolls.
Accomplished trolls are few and far between and you usually cannot spot them right away. They usually grow their troll over a few comments instead of the rookie mistake of loading it all into one comment.
 
2013-07-21 09:38:00 PM
My mother asked me what trolling was, recently.  Here's the gist of the conversation I had with her:

Me:  Mom, think of trolling like a game some people play.  You win the game by making someone upset, or offended, or by just generally disrupting civil conversation.
Mom:  That doesn't sound fun at all.  You mean people volunteer for this?  Like, they dare someone to offend them or something?
Me:  No, usually only the troll knows he's playing the game.  Everyone else is just trying to talk to each other.
Mom:  Well that's not really a game at all.  I mean, if the goal is to make a stranger upset, that's like the easiest game anyone could play; you just make them upset.  It would be like arm wrestling a toddler or something.  Who would enjoy that?
Me:  Trolls.
Mom:  Oh.  Well, you can beat them though, right?  You can just not get mad and then they lose?
Me:  No.  They don't win then, but they don't lose either  They're free to try again, as many times as they like.
Mom:  So there's no way for them to lose?
Me:  Well, realistically there are two ways.  First, they lose if you can make them feel shame.
Mom:  But they're not ashamed to play this horrible game, I'm guessing?
Me:  No, they're not.  Though, sometimes you can force them to feel shame if, say, you out them publicly: post their real name online or email their mom or something.
Mom:  That sounds hard.
Me:  It is.  The other option is to troll them back.  If you can make them upset, they lose and you win.
Mom:  But that makes no sense.  As soon as anyone starts trolling, the entire conversation would probably collapse into random insults and petty threats, no matter who wins.
Me:  And now you understand the internet.
Mom:  No.  No, I really don't.
 
2013-07-21 10:08:59 PM
When trolls go to Hell, they find themselves in an endless, all-consuming discussion thread, but no one is in it other than trolls. And so they rant and rave and bid for attention in ways more pathetic than any seen in this life, forever outbidding one another in a desperate plea for attention that can never come from bystanders who are not there.

When trolls go to Heaven, it is much the same, except that the trolls are feeding each other.
 
2013-07-21 10:40:22 PM

sparkeyjames: Trolling as a fine art was developed long before the world wide web or even usenet. Before that it was an expensive hobby which required access to a printing press and a method of distribution. The advent of the BBS and then Usenet just allowed it to flourish and tactics to be refined.
The WWW just allowed anyone with a keyboard and an anonymous account to be a slavering idiot making it harder to filter out the real trolls.
Accomplished trolls are few and far between and you usually cannot spot them right away. They usually grow their troll over a few comments instead of the rookie mistake of loading it all into one comment.


I forgot to add that the really accomplished troll can derail a perfectly fine thread until it is abandoned or the salient points in any previous arguments are forgotten and everything focus's on the trolls misbegotten drivel. This is the ultimate win for a troll. The secondary win for them is pissing people off. (nazi's not withstanding)
 
2013-07-21 10:43:55 PM
RogermcAllen:

When trolling, you carefully set bait on your hooks and pull them through the water waiting for the prey to bite.  When someone reads a good troll, they shouldn't start instantly start gnashing away at their keyboard to respond.  The troll should just easily slip into their mind and fester until they just can't stand it anymore.  Like a fish, they get hooked without ever knowing what happened.

Indeed.
 
2013-07-21 10:47:02 PM
Ah, trolling... now, the definition is "U DARE DISAGREE WITH ME??? U TROLLING!!!1111111"

/Back in the day, trolling DID mean something.
 
2013-07-21 11:03:51 PM
Sometimes, if you spot someone who gets accused of being a troll and responds by posting, "I am not a troll!" while using the wrong log-in name, you can amuse your fellow farkers (and get month's worth of totalfark sponsorship).
 
2013-07-21 11:24:44 PM

RogermcAllen: Also, FTA:
"Originally, it was, like, racist Reddit kids going into <a data-cke-saved-href="http://www.reddit.com/r/blackgirls">r/blackgirls - that was old-school trolling "


8/10
 
2013-07-22 12:25:27 AM

MrHappyRotter: A lot of accused "trolling" is very clearly sarcasm, satire and mockery


True, but if I post something that's clearly sarcasm, satire, and mockery and I manage to get someone hook, line, and sinker, than I'll take it.
 
2013-07-22 12:33:00 AM

Handsome B. Wonderful: Wait... they think trolling was invented on reddit?


apparently they don't bother doing too much research over there, this article is thoroughly retarded, i would trust encyclopedia dramatica at least over 9000% percent more. but yes dumb people call other people troll for having opposing viewpoints, but then again theirs poes law, there are times when it is truly farking impossible to really know, that is, if your attempting to approach the interaction honestly.
 
2013-07-22 12:38:55 AM
The modern "troll" is more of a harpy.  They get their kicks by flying into a conversation, screeching, and then shiatting on everything.  No subtlety, no skill, just lots and lots of shiat.
 
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