If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(ACLU)   Dear Eric Holder; Your attempts at a federal case against George Zimmerman violates the double-jeopardy clause in the constitution and we will defend him if necessary. Sincerely - The ACLU   (aclu.org) divider line 134
    More: Interesting  
•       •       •

15994 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Jul 2013 at 12:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-07-21 11:34:07 AM  
16 votes:
Holder and Obama are incompetent, race baiting morons. Stand your ground and race had not a farking thing to do with the Zim case and yet there they are on TV talking about both of them every chance they get.
2013-07-21 10:15:08 AM  
12 votes:
Gotta give it to the ACLU

They are principled people who put their personal opinions below what is right
2013-07-21 12:38:19 PM  
10 votes:
People need to stop being butt hurt and realize the Jury has spoken. That is all.
2013-07-21 10:05:06 AM  
10 votes:
  We are writing to clearly state the ACLU's position on whether or not the Department of Justice (DOJ) should consider bringing federal civil rights or hate crimes charges as a result of the state court acquittal in the George Zimmerman case. Even though the Supreme Court permits a federal prosecution following a state prosecution, the ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction.


In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."
2013-07-21 11:29:28 AM  
8 votes:

RexTalionis: We are writing to clearly state the ACLU's position on whether or not the Department of Justice (DOJ) should consider bringing federal civil rights or hate crimes charges as a result of the state court acquittal in the George Zimmerman case. Even though the Supreme Court permits a federal prosecution following a state prosecution, the ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction.


In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."


The Supreme Court has proven many times over the course of their history that their interpretation of the Constitution isn't always right.
2013-07-21 11:19:01 AM  
8 votes:

Jeep2011: I know so many people who for Zimmerman with all of the right wing bat guano crazy they can muster. I also know some left Wing bat guano crazy people who hate Zimmerman and love the ACLU.

Hopefully, the ACLU position will cause the crazies heads to explode and we will be done with crazy.

/knows the ACLU takes positions from all sides of the political spectrum
/It was just a hopeless dream.


I wasn't a fan of the Federal case in the Rodney King incident either. Bringing someone up on different charges for the same offense seems to me to be at least a violation of the spirit of the double jeopardy clause, and even in the case of an injustice, I've been leery and untrusting of letting the government do that.
2013-07-21 11:17:33 AM  
8 votes:
Well, DUH.  The whole story is tragic, but George was acquitted.  Let it go man, coz it's GONE.
2013-07-21 12:44:34 PM  
7 votes:
There was almost no chance whatsoever that Zimmerman was going to be convicted of homicide or even manslaughter in a fair trial. There just wasn't evidence available to prove it, and the prosecution, unsurprisingly, was terrible. They should have gone after something like reckless endangerment, put him away for a couple of years, and pulled his gun license.

I don't doubt that race was an issue in the altercation -- although absolutely it was an issue in the media and in the trial. I think Zimmerman is an ass, a danger to himself and others, and that he could just as easily and just as likely shot and killed a white kid. If Zimmerman was 'protecting' my neighborhood, you bet I'd be rooting against him.
2013-07-21 12:41:40 PM  
7 votes:
But ah cain't say no prayers in skool!

blog.jonolan.net
2013-07-21 12:38:22 PM  
7 votes:

vygramul: and the Zimmerman people don't think assaulting a cop reflects on his personality.


Zim was a a bar with friends and saw some dude grab one of his peeps. Turns out the guy was a plain clothes undercover cop. The fact that the charges were eventually dropped should be a huge red flag that this wasn't what some of Team Trayvon want to make it out to be. Do you really farking think they'd drop assault on an officer charges if they were valid?
2013-07-21 12:02:52 PM  
7 votes:

Nabb1: Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.


I never knew that Trayvon Martin was your patient for you to diagnose him with a psychiatric condition. Why didn't you speak up before this tragic incident? You're the real monster here.

Stop pretending there are any heroes in this situation.
2013-07-21 12:40:38 PM  
6 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: Holder and Obama are incompetent, race baiting morons. Stand your ground and race had not a farking thing to do with the Zim case and yet there they are on TV talking about both of them every chance they get.


Stand your ground had nothing to do with it? You're dumb.
2013-07-21 11:42:35 AM  
6 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: Holder and Obama are incompetent, race baiting morons. Stand your ground and race had not a farking thing to do with the Zim case and yet there they are on TV talking about both of them every chance they get.


They aren't morons. While Obama was bearing his soul to the media, the government was getting the FISA court to rubber stamp renewal of domestic surveillance.
2013-07-21 12:54:25 PM  
5 votes:
I may not always agree with their positions on individual matters, but this is yet another reminder of why the ACLU is absolutely necessary in a society like ours. Public sentiment can lead to pretty crappy decisionmaking by elected officials, and unaccountable judges have absolutely been wrong in the past, so it's hugely important to have groups that will stand with unpopular citizens whose resources aren't bottomless.
2013-07-21 01:19:30 PM  
4 votes:
Dear World,
If Trayvon did not get himself suspended from school, he would probably be alive today.
If Trayvon had just gone home, he would probably be alive today.
If Trayvon had not assaulted George Zimmerman he would probably be alive today.

Regards,
HS
2013-07-21 12:55:07 PM  
4 votes:

LasersHurt: Popcorn Johnny: See You Next Tuesday: Name one well-adjusted teenager. Go on.

What % of teens are perusing the illegal purchase of a firearm?

Guilty without proof, of course, like all "facts" brought up about Martin to slander him after death.


So you're saying all those pictures of him and his text message records are completely fabricated just to make him look bad? Enjoying your first day on Fark, Mr. Sharpton?
2013-07-21 12:53:07 PM  
4 votes:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Eric Holder the brainchild behind a monumental f*ckup that involved letting guns fall into the hands of Mexican cartel members--in order to track said cartel members--but resulted in the death of a Border Patrol agent and potentially an untold number of Mexican civilians/cops/military?  Which would make him an accessory to the murder of a US Federal officer and X number of citizens of a foreign country.  Which makes AG Holder even so much as looking at a case of enacting justice of gun violence kinda sorta super hypocritical?

Or was that that Neopolitan chick who used to be in charge of the ATF?  Honest question.
2013-07-21 12:45:10 PM  
4 votes:

See You Next Tuesday: Name one well-adjusted teenager. Go on.


What % of teens are perusing the illegal purchase of a firearm?
2013-07-21 12:24:48 PM  
4 votes:

Nabb1: vygramul: Popcorn Johnny: Team Zim!

If you want to come across as being a Twilight fan, that's your business.

Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.


I think it's more insane for people to champion either one of these award-winners since no one really knows what actually happened that night. Neither side is willing to accept even the HINT of a flaw. The Martin people don't think the suspicious jewelry reflects on his personality, and the Zimmerman people don't think assaulting a cop reflects on his personality. They're all insufficiently skeptical about the events of that night.
2013-07-21 01:35:15 PM  
3 votes:
oneofthejonesboys.files.wordpress.com
This thread has mutated into a Free Republic circle jerk.
2013-07-21 01:22:05 PM  
3 votes:
Yet another black  man chimed in in the editorial section of my newspaper this morning.
His idea: We need to meet at public libraries and have a dialogue on slavery, segregation and Jim Crow.
Sorry, that sounds more like a monologue.
2013-07-21 12:56:32 PM  
3 votes:

"A jury found Zimmerman not guilty, and that should be the end of the criminal case."


Zimmerman took a life and I had wished he was found guilty. But I agree with the ACLU, he was found not guilty and that's that. It's time to move on. On my facebook people are posting pictures from the Travon marches taking place. I keep thinking what's the point? It's over. If anything, maybe action should now be focused on the "Stand Your Ground" law. Is it really a sensible law as written or should changes be made?

2013-07-21 12:56:12 PM  
3 votes:
I don't understand why people are going after stand your ground because of this case.  Zimmerman physically couldn't retreat because he was on his back on the ground with a man straddling him who was pounding him in the ground.
2013-07-21 12:53:53 PM  
3 votes:

LasersHurt: Guilty without proof, of course, like all "facts" brought up about Martin to slander him after death.


So you're denying the existence of the text messages that show Trayvon having a conversation about wanting to purchase a gun? Perhaps you should exit these threads for a while, study up on the "facts" and then give it another go. It gets really tiring having to educate people such as yourself that choose to be ignorant of what is and isn't known about this whole affair.
2013-07-21 12:52:59 PM  
3 votes:
But we have to keep retrying him...

www.at40.com

until we get the verdict we want!
2013-07-21 12:52:38 PM  
3 votes:
I love the ACLU. They seem to think our rights belong to all of us.
2013-07-21 12:49:35 PM  
3 votes:
You should only have to face criminal or civil charges, not both.  I know that that is not how it is in this country, but that is the way that it should be. It is bullschitt that a criminal court can find you not guilty but then a civil court can find you guilty of the same crime.  How in all of Hades is that not double jeopardy?
2013-07-21 12:42:34 PM  
3 votes:

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Stand your ground had nothing to do with it? You're dumb.


Oh boy, here we go. Please enlighten us as to what stand your ground had to do with the case.
2013-07-21 12:40:59 PM  
3 votes:
As for the Civil Rights violations suit, they couldn't prove Zimmerman killed Trayvon out of hate.  How are they going to prove he did it specifically because of his race? That would be a complete waste of tax payer money.
2013-07-21 08:14:26 PM  
2 votes:
I would be a life time member of the ACLU if they defended all of our rights.
2013-07-21 04:56:52 PM  
2 votes:
That the ACLU is willing to defend him proves Zimmerman isn't white.
2013-07-21 04:50:40 PM  
2 votes:

RexTalionis: In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."


Actually, there is some reason to  believe the ACLU is more correct on that than the current "dual-sovereign" doctrine.

Apparently, that doctrine wasn't part of English common law, nor was it understood to be permissible by early American courts, but was pretty much made up out of whole cloth in 1852 by the infamous Taney court (you know, the same one that gave us Dred Scott).

That link is to a cert petition asking the Supreme Court to overturn the 'dual sovereign' doctrine, under the idea that originalism trumps stare decisis, when the two are at odds with each other.
2013-07-21 02:47:12 PM  
2 votes:
In other news, over 11,000 blacks have been killed by other blacks since the night Trayvon was killed. Where's the outrage over their deaths?
2013-07-21 02:46:58 PM  
2 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: See You Next Tuesday: Name one well-adjusted teenager. Go on.

What % of teens are perusing the illegal purchase of a firearm?


A lot of them. Teens do stupid stuff, and usually the parents have no idea. I helped pull a prank in high school that today would have had me up on hundreds of federal terrorism charges and probably gotten me sentenced to effectively life in prison despite there being no possibility of physical harm to others.

Even back then I could have been charged with at least a few federal crimes and I knew that. Five of my friends were charged with computer crimes, including hacking into the school's computer system and redistributing students to new, fake classes just before report cards were printed. Others repeatedly got busted for receiving stolen property for buying cheap electronics off the street, driving without a license, and vandalism (post-game celebration after the first winning season in our school's history). I was on our school's scholastic bowl team and we got kicked out of a bunch of restaurants around the state.

Teens do stupid criminal stuff. especially smart ones.
2013-07-21 01:53:50 PM  
2 votes:
George Zimmerman is a racist, and that is the most important fact in the history of the universe.  He is clearly a racist because he shot Trayvon Martin, who apparently was black.  No non-black person has ever shot, attacked, or even had an argument with a black person for any other reason than racism.  Evil white-people racism.  Trayvon Martin cannot possibly be a racist, because he is black, and there is no such thing as a black racist.  It's impossible, because slavery.

Some white people (i.e. "racists") have tried to characterize Trayvon as racist himself, because he referred to Zimmerman as a "creepy ass cracker".  They are only doing or saying this because they themselves are racists who hate black people.  He may have used a racial slur, but there is no way he is a racist.  It's impossible.  Racism.
2013-07-21 01:46:23 PM  
2 votes:
George Zimmerman had his name changed to Ben Ghazi so the President and the media never mention him again.
2013-07-21 01:42:13 PM  
2 votes:

Archimedes' Principal: Benghazi and four dead Americans


THE MAGIC WORD WAS SAID!

BENGHAZI!


farm5.staticflickr.com

EVERYBODY TAKE A SHOT!!!!!

resources0.news.com.au
2013-07-21 01:38:29 PM  
2 votes:

Nabb1: Popcorn Johnny: Holder and Obama are incompetent, race baiting morons. Stand your ground and race had not a farking thing to do with the Zim case and yet there they are on TV talking about both of them every chance they get.

They aren't morons. While Obama was bearing his soul to the media, the government was getting the FISA court to rubber stamp renewal of domestic surveillance.


This.
2013-07-21 01:30:33 PM  
2 votes:
I just don't know why they're doing it. The feds (FBI) already investigated and found nothing. Oh that's right, they set up a tip line specifically for Zimmerman. I'm sure that will generate tons of truthful stories from people that no one else could seem to find.
2013-07-21 01:29:00 PM  
2 votes:
As the American people argue over a case already determined by a jury, it takes the focus away from:

Benghazi and four dead Americans
The IRS
The NSA
The Patriot Act
NDAA
The Federal Reserve's QE3  propping up the stock market
Congresspersons tacking on pork to various bills, etc.


Keep arguing, people. It's just what our overlords (and the media) were hoping for.
2013-07-21 01:25:56 PM  
2 votes:
2.bp.blogspot.com

Yeah, Obama was really struggling with racial prejudice 35 years ago.  What a farkin' hack.
2013-07-21 01:23:11 PM  
2 votes:

fnordfocus: Magistrates in Virginia issue warrants, decide bail, etc.  These are things that are handled by people called "Judges" in other states, and that's enough to get a bit of professional courtesy for your kid.


Judges preside over trials, magistrates do not. Aside from that, if you think that a magistrate from Virginia could call Florida and get an assault on an officer charge dropped, you're nuts. The case was thrown out because of the evidence, that Zim had no idea he was grabbing an officer.
2013-07-21 01:21:41 PM  
2 votes:

ponger: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Popcorn Johnny: Holder and Obama are incompetent, race baiting morons. Stand your ground and race had not a farking thing to do with the Zim case and yet there they are on TV talking about both of them every chance they get.

Stand your ground had nothing to do with it? You're dumb.

Actually the jury did receive instruction to the effect Zim could stand his ground.  So to that extent "Stand Your Ground" did have something to do with the case.  However, the prosecution and defense lawyers both had a hand in writing the instructions to the jury.  So it goes.

 http://www.scribd.com/doc/153354467/George-Zimmerman-Trial-Final-Ju ry- Instructions

page 12

"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent
the commission of a forcible felony. "


Except that even in the absence of SYG, the defense could have argued equally with merit that this was justifiable homicide. If Zimmerman was indeed on the ground getting his head bashed into the concrete, it wasn't as if he could further retreat into the ground.
2013-07-21 01:20:34 PM  
2 votes:

hardinparamedic: Nabb1: Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.

I never knew that Trayvon Martin was your patient for you to diagnose him with a psychiatric condition. Why didn't you speak up before this tragic incident? You're the real monster here.

Stop pretending there are any heroes in this situation.


There are no heroes , only victims.. poor decisions were made by both.. human beings do that occasionally.. my condolences to all involved, may we become wiser in the future.
2013-07-21 01:19:54 PM  
2 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: I'd much rather see an investigation into all of the crimes Obama was committing 35 years ago.


img837.imageshack.us
2013-07-21 01:10:21 PM  
2 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: LasersHurt: Guilty without proof, of course, like all "facts" brought up about Martin to slander him after death.

So you're denying the existence of the text messages that show Trayvon having a conversation about wanting to purchase a gun? Perhaps you should exit these threads for a while, study up on the "facts" and then give it another go. It gets really tiring having to educate people such as yourself that choose to be ignorant of what is and isn't known about this whole affair.


So stop. It doesn't matter if Martin smoked weed, said nasty things, wanted a gun, or was a Mexican drug cartel kingpin. All Zimmerman knew about him that night was that he was a stranger. That was enough for him to "investigate".
2013-07-21 01:05:51 PM  
2 votes:

fnordfocus: He was charged before they realized Daddy was a judge.


This is what Team Trayvon actually believes. For the record, he was a magistrate in Virginia, not a judge.
2013-07-21 01:03:37 PM  
2 votes:

Useless Destruction of Exergy: ... and older Mississippi members of the Klu Klux Klan nod in agreement and watch with interest.


Black kid and an Hispanic man get into a fight. Black kid killed.

White population is blamed.

That's  your America.
2013-07-21 01:01:23 PM  
2 votes:

RandomAxe: There was almost no chance whatsoever that Zimmerman was going to be convicted of homicide or even manslaughter in a fair trial. There just wasn't evidence available to prove it, and the prosecution, unsurprisingly, was terrible. They should have gone after something like reckless endangerment, put him away for a couple of years, and pulled his gun license.

I don't doubt that race was an issue in the altercation -- although absolutely it was an issue in the media and in the trial. I think Zimmerman is an ass, a danger to himself and others, and that he could just as easily and just as likely shot and killed a white kid. If Zimmerman was 'protecting' my neighborhood, you bet I'd be rooting against him.


You just summed up the entire situation more correctly than any of the "experts" could ever have done. Zimmerman was then and still is a jackass and will probably end up making more poor choices in the future. But there just wasn't enough evidence to convict him I the crime they chose to charge him with. Their mistake.
2013-07-21 12:58:53 PM  
2 votes:

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Popcorn Johnny: Holder and Obama are incompetent, race baiting morons. Stand your ground and race had not a farking thing to do with the Zim case and yet there they are on TV talking about both of them every chance they get.

Stand your ground had nothing to do with it? You're dumb.


Actually the jury did receive instruction to the effect Zim could stand his ground.  So to that extent "Stand Your Ground" did have something to do with the case.  However, the prosecution and defense lawyers both had a hand in writing the instructions to the jury.  So it goes.

 http://www.scribd.com/doc/153354467/George-Zimmerman-Trial-Final-Ju ry- Instructions

page 12

"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent
the commission of a forcible felony. "
2013-07-21 12:56:44 PM  
2 votes:

Kome: One of the jurors said it was a factor influencing her decision in spite of it not being brought up by the lawyers.


That doesn't make it a part of the case. We know for a fact that it didn't apply to Zim's actions, as he was pinned to the ground and unable to flee. Any speculation that Trayvon was standing his ground is not supported by any evidence.

Obama and Holder going on TV and denouncing stand your ground laws when there's not one shred of evidence that they had anything to do with the incident is moronic.
2013-07-21 12:52:49 PM  
2 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Stand your ground had nothing to do with it? You're dumb.

Oh boy, here we go. Please enlighten us as to what stand your ground had to do with the case.


One of the jurors said it was a factor influencing her decision in spite of it not being brought up by the lawyers.
2013-07-21 12:42:17 PM  
2 votes:

Nabb1: Jackson Herring: Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.

better a 50 Shades of Grey fan than whatever the fark sort of hardon you have reminding everyone what a dangerous thug you think Martin was

Oh, yeah, those cell phone pics and texts the prosecution suppressed for so long were clearly indicative of a peaceful, well-adjusted teenager.


If I had a cell phone at that age you'd probably say the same thing.

/and be just as wrong
2013-07-21 12:40:56 PM  
2 votes:

vygramul: I wasn't a fan of the Federal case in the Rodney King incident either. Bringing someone up on different charges for the same offense seems to me to be at least a violation of the spirit of the double jeopardy clause, and even in the case of an injustice, I've been leery and untrusting of letting the government do that.


I feel the exact same way about leveling multiple charges hoping one sticks...
I.E. charging someone with murder 2, murder 3, and manslaughter.
2013-07-21 12:33:57 PM  
2 votes:
pisces.bbystatic.com
cdn.media.discovermagazine.com
Just getting things prepared for you all.
2013-07-21 12:33:56 PM  
2 votes:

vygramul: Nabb1: vygramul: Popcorn Johnny: Team Zim!

If you want to come across as being a Twilight fan, that's your business.

Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.

I think it's more insane for people to champion either one of these award-winners since no one really knows what actually happened that night. Neither side is willing to accept even the HINT of a flaw. The Martin people don't think the suspicious jewelry reflects on his personality, and the Zimmerman people don't think assaulting a cop reflects on his personality. They're all insufficiently skeptical about the events of that night.


Oh, I think Zimmerman is definitely flawed, just not a criminal.
2013-07-21 12:33:00 PM  
2 votes:

Jackson Herring: Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.

better a 50 Shades of Grey fan than whatever the fark sort of hardon you have reminding everyone what a dangerous thug you think Martin was


Oh, yeah, those cell phone pics and texts the prosecution suppressed for so long were clearly indicative of a peaceful, well-adjusted teenager.
2013-07-21 12:22:25 PM  
2 votes:
Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.

better a 50 Shades of Grey fan than whatever the fark sort of hardon you have reminding everyone what a dangerous thug you think Martin was
2013-07-21 11:33:09 AM  
2 votes:

vygramul: Popcorn Johnny: Team Zim!

If you want to come across as being a Twilight fan, that's your business.


Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.
2013-07-21 11:32:28 AM  
2 votes:
OJ Simpson
2013-07-21 11:20:18 AM  
2 votes:

cman: Gotta give it to the ACLU

They are principled people who put their personal opinions below what is right


Most of the time. Sometimes, they do pick and choose which rights they feel are worth defending.
2013-07-21 10:15:13 AM  
2 votes:
I did not see in the letter where the ACLU said they would defend him.
2013-07-21 09:53:23 AM  
2 votes:
I know so many people who for Zimmerman with all of the right wing bat guano crazy they can muster. I also know some left Wing bat guano crazy people who hate Zimmerman and love the ACLU.

Hopefully, the ACLU position will cause the crazies heads to explode and we will be done with crazy.

/knows the ACLU takes positions from all sides of the political spectrum
/It was just a hopeless dream.
2013-07-22 10:03:52 AM  
1 votes:

RexTalionis: We are writing to clearly state the ACLU's position on whether or not the Department of Justice (DOJ) should consider bringing federal civil rights or hate crimes charges as a result of the state court acquittal in the George Zimmerman case. Even though the Supreme Court permits a federal prosecution following a state prosecution, the ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction.


In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."


SCOTUS has reversed itself in the past. Therefore, even SCOTUS admits that SCOTUS isn't infallible. If it is possible for SCOTUS to reverse itself, then it is valid to disagree with what has previously been handed down. One might be bound by the past rulings, but it does not mean that one cannot challenge these past rulings. I understand that a government-worshiping cultist can't grasp the idea that a "Supreme" court isn't actually a Divine and infallible entity, but it isn't. Was SCOTUS irrevocably correct in Plessy v. Ferguson? If so, they should have upheld four of the five cases that went into Brown v. Board of Education and reversed Gebhart v. Belton. Instead, they heard Brown v. Board of Education and overturned Plessy v. Ferguson.
2013-07-22 01:44:05 AM  
1 votes:

coyo: Amos Quito: WTFDYW: I did not see in the letter where the ACLU said they would defend him.


By publicly biatch-slapping Holder and the Race-Baiters, they are effectively "defending" not only Zimmerman, but the rights of all Americans.

Looks in the republican dictionary :

Race Baiter :  Anyone who looks in the history books and notices racism perpetrated by whites (specifically) and actually talks about it. Also, anyone who claims that racism exists today.

Well, friggen sign me up and give me my 'race baiter' badge.



Nah, your definition is totally off.

A "race-baiter" is any person or entity who intentionally and surreptitiously  creates, manipulates, exaggerates, or amplifies a given event or circumstance with the goal of creating or intensifying interracial / interethnic strife, tension, resentment, mistrust and hatred in order to capitalize on the on the ensuing chaos and societal division for political or financial gain, or other ulterior motives.

Race-baiters can be of any race or ethnicity, and oftentimes are not even members of the group(s) whose "causes" they pretend to champion.

Of course, the strife need not be racial or ethnic. There is no shortage of charlatan hucksters who line up to profiteer from any form of social unrest and division, whether it be related to gender, sexuality. religion, culture, nationality, class, or other forms of socially contrived tribalism. If there is political or financial profit to be gained via societal division, they will exploit it.

Obviously, the only reason these strategies "work" is because "the people" are demonstrably gullible, and human nature is, sadly, all too predictable.

Race-baiters are like tree shakers: They don't care which tree they shake, they're only interest is in reaping the harvest - the fallout of the the tumult. Some of these "shakers" are lowly grifters seeking to gain fame, recognition or money, while others are bright enough to see that any society that is divided can be easily manipulated to achieve larger, often nefarious political goals - the latter being far more pernicious.

The attacks of 9-11-2001 are a fine example of the latter, as these events were used as capitai to build a crescendo of irrational animosity among Americans against peoples and nations that had little or nothing to do with these events, yet we were mesmerized by the carefully orchestrated "us vs them" illusion, and conned into supporting and financing unjust slaughter and conquest .

Are you old enough to remember the blatant lies that were fed to us in order to achieve the artificially induced emotional public support required to prosecute these politically contrived crimes?

Manipulation through misdirection.

And back to the case at hand: Was this really a "racial" issue? Did the events that transpired that night REALLY hinge on the RACES of the parties involved? Or is that merely an illusion being pounded into the collective psyche by those that seek to divide us - AS A PEOPLE - for political advantage and societal manipulation?

Do you still want to wear that "race-baiter" badge?
2013-07-21 08:55:24 PM  
1 votes:

OgreMagi: Autistic Hiker: That black parents all over country are terrified that their teenage son could be the next Trayvon Martin?

They should be more terrified of their black children being killed by other blacks.  94% of murdered blacks are killed by blacks.


They are.  It's a major focus of news reporting, community policing, and political activism in every major urban area in the United States.  The problem is that here, a nonblack wannabe cop pursued a black kid for no good reason, the black kid ends up dead, there's no accountability until a massive public outcry, half the country takes the wannabe cop's side and tries to paint the kid as somehow deserving it, and there's nothing in the law from preventing it happening again.   Those optics are not good for people whose recent ancestors were subject to lynchings.  I'm not saying it's right, but I am saying that's what this is about.
2013-07-21 07:17:51 PM  
1 votes:

youncasqua: How many materially false statements does a man have to make in a homicide investigation before you conclude he's lying?


I love how you people vacillate between Zimmerman being "a bumbling racist who picked a fight and couldn't even land a single punch, and wound up getting lucky in saving his own life" , and "a criminal mastermind who saw an opportunity to murder a black kid as a side trip on his way to getting groceries, allowing himself to get beaten severely, so he'd have a good story to tell".  It's rather entertaining.
2013-07-21 05:03:54 PM  
1 votes:

that bosnian sniper: People who blatantly  started altercations but lost the upper hand have been acuitted under it.


That can happen under standard self-defense laws.  In fact, if you start an altercation, that doesn't mean you give up your right to defend yourself.  You are limited, though, in that you must retreat if you possibly can, but George Zimmerman, according to his testimony and that of eyewitnesses, couldn't retreat.

Even if you believe Zimmerman started the fight, and even if you tried him under state laws where you have a duty to retreat, he still would have been acquitted.
2013-07-21 04:53:48 PM  
1 votes:

youncasqua: And when you objectively evaluate the evidence, there is less reason to believe Trayvon threw the first punch than that Zimmerman did.


Sure there is, if you're ignorant of the facts.
2013-07-21 04:53:38 PM  
1 votes:

AcneVulgaris: Democracy's been dead here for a while, rule of law is following.


Oh, rule of law will still continue.  They had the rule of law in the old Soviet Union, and in Maoist China, and in Nazi Germany.  They just re-write and re-interpret the laws, but they are still living under the rule of law.

"Rule of law", in and of itself, isn't necessarily a positive thing.  At best, it's neutral.
2013-07-21 03:53:11 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: I've found Freeper land is good for that. But the terror comes in when you realize these people aren't trying to be funny.


I like to pop my head in there from time to time for a laugh and to see what they are posting about. The scary thing about the Zimmerman trial has been that the articles they have been posting have contained a higher quotient of truth than the articles in HLN and MSNBC news. It makes me cringe, but stopped clocks, etc.

Popcorn Johnny: They've done a good job getting rid of the cheese pizza. I wish they had a separate board for gore and all would be well.


I try to stay out of the cancer containment unit known as /b/ unless I've been drinking heavily. Gore is only one of the many reasons.
2013-07-21 03:35:01 PM  
1 votes:

Skyrmion: This Florida thing? You should check out the Tampa Bay Times cataloging of Florida's fatal stand your ground cases:
Black perpetrators: 25 justified, 7 convicted.
White perpetrators: 39 justified, 30 convicted.

I'm not ruling out that there could be a racial bias to the way SYG laws are administered throughout the country. But it doesn't seem to be obviously manifesting in Florida.


There is a racial bias to the way Florida judges SYG. It's biased in favor of black people.
2013-07-21 03:23:41 PM  
1 votes:

that bosnian sniper: Of course, as your linked article points out, that still does not excuse inconsistent application, especially in regards to other ethnically- or gender-charged cases such as that of Marissa Alexander (again, where's the outrage from the "Second Amendment Solutions" crowd that a black woman took their advice for once and was convicted despite having SYG and castle doctrine on her side?).


www.mlponline.net

Why do people keep pulling things from their ass about Marissa Alexander. That was never a stand your ground case, either. It was a clear cut case of attempted murder based on the evidence and Alexander's own statements.
2013-07-21 03:23:26 PM  
1 votes:

coyo: - why? Because Martin pounded him, high on skittles.

- why? Because Martin was creeped out by a loony with a gun.who was stalking him and got afraid, acting in self defense.

- why was Martin being stalked? Because he was a black dude and Zimmerman wanted to kill one.


That's your version of events.   One that is not borne out by the evidence.   The jury heard that theory, and unanimously rejected it.

- Martin was casing the neighborhood for burglary, having made a purchase at a nearby store in order to establish an alibi for his presence there.

- Zimmerman reported his suspicious behavior to the police and followed him at a distance in order to direct police to his location.

- Martin evaded observation, hid, and then brutally assaulted the "creepy-ass cracker" who was dissin' him in a surprise blind-side attack.

- As he lay on the ground, bleeding, with Martin standing over him continuing to pound his head into the sidewalk, Zimmerman drew and fired his sidearm in order to protect his own life.
2013-07-21 03:13:32 PM  
1 votes:
It is a sad day for our Galaxy.

Yesterday in Mos Eisley, Tatooine, Han Solo, a white man and self proclaimed "defender of the galaxy" shot and killed unarmed Rodian youth Greedo. Solo was later captured by Imperial StormTroopers but was later released when Solo claimed Greedo shot first and he (Solo) was merely acting in self defense. The Greedo family lawyer is attempting to contact a Hutt whose name has not yet been released to the media as it is suspected that it was the last individual to contact Greedo before his death.

I wanted to believe Imperial society had moved past this speciesist bullshiat but I guess we haven't. The Empire is obviously corrupt and we need to make our voices known. I suggest we stage rebellions on Tatooine, Yavin 4, and Hoth to let the Empire know the Galactic Community will not stand for this.

#JusticeForGreedo
i.imgur.com
2013-07-21 03:13:04 PM  
1 votes:

coyo: Obama was a fool for thinking his opponents had any shred of human decency or honor, that's for sure.


Obama's supporters were a fool for thinking he was different from any other politician.
2013-07-21 03:08:33 PM  
1 votes:

Nemo's Brother: Does Obama ever handle a situation correctly?  What a joke he has turned out to be.


You know it's bad when even his most ardent supporters have been reduced to saying, "at least he's better than the other guy".
2013-07-21 03:05:24 PM  
1 votes:
The ACLU somehow manages to be extremely steadfast and extremely fickle at the same time. There was no way they were ever going to stay out of this case once it hit the federal level, but which side would they take? That was a much harder question to answer, with all the grey areas. I have to admit that I'm pleasantly surprised at what that answer appears to be.

The law being cited for this double-jeopardy gambit was intended to be used in cases where a state refused to prosecute clear civil-rights violations, not cases where a state merely prosecutes but fails to achieve the desired verdict. It should never have been used this way, and the SCOTUS should never have held such cases as valid. If the case proceeds, I hope it ends in overturning that decision.
2013-07-21 02:48:18 PM  
1 votes:
Zimmerman should move to Dubai
they'd welcome him with OPEN arms
2013-07-21 02:43:42 PM  
1 votes:

clyph: I love the fact that Mr. Martin's criminal history has been deliberately swept under the carpet.   The prosecution tried very hard to conceal the fact that Trayvon:

- Conspired to purchase an illegal handgun (felony)
- Was found in possession of stolen property and burglary tools (felony)
- Had child pornography on his cell phone (felony)
- Had a documented history of assault and had announced his intent to commit additional assaults (felony)


I partially agree with you, but:
Using child pornography laws to go after sexing teens is bullshiat.
IMO, the concept of "burglary tools" and "going equipped" is also bullshiat. He had a screwdriver. If he committed burglary (and yeah, he almost certainly did) then charge him with that. I don't see how using a screwdriver in the act makes it worse.
2013-07-21 02:42:58 PM  
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: vygramul: and the Zimmerman people don't think assaulting a cop reflects on his personality.

Zim was a a bar with friends and saw some dude grab one of his peeps. Turns out the guy was a plain clothes undercover cop. The fact that the charges were eventually dropped should be a huge red flag that this wasn't what some of Team Trayvon want to make it out to be. Do you really farking think they'd drop assault on an officer charges if they were valid?


Wow, And Zimmerman was made out to be such a pussy in court by his own defense team? No wonder they wanted to keep this violent act of him drunkenly attacking an under cover cop, in a bar. Sounds like a guy with a huge chip on his shoulder. Not some doughy panty-boy he his defense team made him out to be in court.
2013-07-21 02:40:16 PM  
1 votes:

Misconduc: People need to stop being butt hurt and realize the Jury has spoken. That is all.


Yeah I don't get this. The other thing is that the trial is not about justice for the victim. The masses bring their emotions into this stuff and then shiat gets crazy. I didn't watch the trial and think Zimmerman is a dangerous person who needs therapy or something for his hero complex, but it's likely that the prosecutors simply didn't prove what they set out to prove.

Harassing Zimmerman for the rest of his life(or until the next reality star dangles a shiny object and breaks our collective attention span) isn't going to bring back Trayvon Martin and it certainly isn't going to prevent this sort of thing from happening again.
2013-07-21 02:36:52 PM  
1 votes:

Carth: if getting suspended for fights and doing drugs are "just normal teenage things" I had the most boring childhood ever. I was busy playing sports,  going on dates and playing computer games.


Seriously? When I went to a private religious school, I spent almost every day in ISS because I "questioned" and blasphemed. Worst year of my life ever.

Getting in a fight is not unheard of for teenagers. Neither is talking trash to one another, or rebelling against adult authority.

I get that you were a goody-good child who probably got the rod taken to him every time you said something more than "Please, Sir, May I have some more", but you're honestly going to set here and tell me "normal" teenagers are the Leave it to beaver types?

Like I said. There are no innocent sides in this. And there are no heroes. What we have here is a dead teenager who will never get the chance to prove to the world he wasn't the "thug" everyone seems to think he was or to grow up, and we have a man who has had his life destroyed by his decisions, and who will now have to live with the fact that not only did he take another human's life, and that his family has been turned into a media spectacle, but will now have the fact that he destroyed another family on his sholders no matter where he goes.

Zimmerman will NEVER have a normal life.

The blatant polarized idolatry of both these individuals as anything more than people who made very bad decisions that escalated one on top of another throughout the entire episode by either side is the worst part of this whole spectacle.
2013-07-21 02:32:19 PM  
1 votes:

fnordfocus: Popcorn Johnny: Zim was a a bar with friends and saw some dude grab one of his peeps. Turns out the guy was a plain clothes undercover cop. The fact that the charges were eventually dropped should be a huge red flag that this wasn't what some of Team Trayvon want to make it out to be. Do you really farking think they'd drop assault on an officer charges if they were valid?

He was charged before they realized Daddy was a judge.  That can make a lot of things go away.


Jesus Christ, more lies from the peanut gallery. The alleged assault happen at the University of Central Florida on an undercover officer. Zimmerman's father was a magistrate, in Virgina. A magistrate is NOT a judge, but is a judicial officer.

How do you turds live with yourself for spreading these lies and manipulating opinions with it?

I really want to know how you sleep at night and look yourself in the mirror when you twist the truth like this?

Assholes like you should have their Internet connection banned for life.
2013-07-21 02:30:13 PM  
1 votes:

hardinparamedic: clyph: I love the fact that Mr. Martin's criminal history has been deliberately swept under the carpet.   The prosecution tried very hard to conceal the fact that Trayvon:

- Conspired to purchase an illegal handgun (felony)
- Was found in possession of stolen property and burglary tools (felony)
- Had child pornography on his cell phone (felony)
- Had a documented history of assault and had announced his intent to commit additional assaults (felony)

I'll give him a pass on pot possession because it's hard to find a high school student who doesn't smoke.

This was not an innocent teenager.   This was a budding young criminal who actively cultivated a 'gangsta' image and was deeply immersed in casual criminality.

Can you give a citation on points one through three? Getting in a fight on the bus and talking trash doesn't strike me as not-normal teenage behavior for a male.


if getting suspended for fights and doing drugs are "just normal teenage things" I had the most boring childhood ever. I was busy playing sports,  going on dates and playing computer games.
2013-07-21 02:24:21 PM  
1 votes:

The Lone Gunman: It was unclear to Zim that Martin was a threat of any kind or had a gun


Because having your head slammed repeatedly into the pavement isn't something you could reasonably believe would result in death or grievous bodily harm.
2013-07-21 02:24:21 PM  
1 votes:

clyph: I love the fact that Mr. Martin's criminal history has been deliberately swept under the carpet.   The prosecution tried very hard to conceal the fact that Trayvon:

- Conspired to purchase an illegal handgun (felony)
- Was found in possession of stolen property and burglary tools (felony)
- Had child pornography on his cell phone (felony)
- Had a documented history of assault and had announced his intent to commit additional assaults (felony)

I'll give him a pass on pot possession because it's hard to find a high school student who doesn't smoke.

This was not an innocent teenager.   This was a budding young criminal who actively cultivated a 'gangsta' image and was deeply immersed in casual criminality.


Can you give a citation on points one through three? Getting in a fight on the bus and talking trash doesn't strike me as not-normal teenage behavior for a male.
2013-07-21 02:21:34 PM  
1 votes:
I love the fact that Mr. Martin's criminal history has been deliberately swept under the carpet.   The prosecution tried very hard to conceal the fact that Trayvon:

- Conspired to purchase an illegal handgun (felony)
- Was found in possession of stolen property and burglary tools (felony)
- Had child pornography on his cell phone (felony)
- Had a documented history of assault and had announced his intent to commit additional assaults (felony)

I'll give him a pass on pot possession because it's hard to find a high school student who doesn't smoke.

This was not an innocent teenager.   This was a budding young criminal who actively cultivated a 'gangsta' image and was deeply immersed in casual criminality.
2013-07-21 02:14:35 PM  
1 votes:

that bosnian sniper: And, indeed, it must be a Florida thing when attractive and successful defendants keep getting denied stand-your-ground protection and convicted anyways, even when castle doctrine also applies. Where's the outrage from the Bootstrapply Second Amendment Solutions club when it's black men and women defending themselves as is their legal right under Florida state law?


This Florida thing? You should check out the Tampa Bay Times cataloging of Florida's fatal stand your ground cases:
Black perpetrators: 25 justified, 7 convicted.
White perpetrators: 39 justified, 30 convicted.

I'm not ruling out that there could be a racial bias to the way SYG laws are administered throughout the country. But it doesn't seem to be obviously manifesting in Florida.
2013-07-21 02:06:35 PM  
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: JK47: Only if you believe that Zimmerman didn't follow Trayvon and obeyed the dispatcher's request to stop and withdraw.  Can't have that both ways.  Not to mention it's self-serving to believe the uncorroborated account of the only survivor of a confrontation.

Trayvon's fat friend said that Trayvon was all the way home and that he threw the first punch. So, are we believing her or not, seems to change all the time depending on which story Team Trayvon is currently going with.


She said Trayvon threw the first punch?
2013-07-21 02:02:18 PM  
1 votes:

JK47: Only if you believe that Zimmerman didn't follow Trayvon and obeyed the dispatcher's request to stop and withdraw.  Can't have that both ways.  Not to mention it's self-serving to believe the uncorroborated account of the only survivor of a confrontation.


Trayvon's fat friend said that Trayvon was all the way home and that he threw the first punch. So, are we believing her or not, seems to change all the time depending on which story Team Trayvon is currently going with.
2013-07-21 02:00:01 PM  
1 votes:

cman: Gotta give it to the ACLU

They are principled people who put their personal opinions below what is right


Seriously, the trial is over.  And I'm sure that there will be a civil trial, but the DOJ needs to step away from this.

Besides, jailing Zimmerman at this point will accomplish nothing.  If they really want justice for Trayvon, they need to get rid of "Stand Your Ground", because cops have a tough enough time without prospective serial killers posing as "protectors of the community".
2013-07-21 01:47:02 PM  
1 votes:

WTFDYW: [pisces.bbystatic.com image 500x500]
[cdn.media.discovermagazine.com image 850x688]
Just getting things prepared for you all.


Why would you make a beer that light?  You might as well just have some apple juice.

hardinparamedic: Stop pretending there are any heroes in this situation.


I think this is the most insightful comment to date on this case.  Everyone involved was an asshole.
2013-07-21 01:46:05 PM  
1 votes:
Oh_Enough_Already:
i179.photobucket.com

'Welcome to Fark'.jpg
2013-07-21 01:44:30 PM  
1 votes:

JK47: Yes, because amateur policemen taking matters into their own hands resulting in avoidable murder is clearly a problem we can't agree on.


The only reason Trayvon is dead is because he returned to the scene and began a violent confrontation.
2013-07-21 01:43:03 PM  
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: You'd be right at home at a J4T rally.



Yes, because amateur policemen taking matters into their own hands resulting in avoidable murder is clearly a problem we can't agree on.
2013-07-21 01:37:40 PM  
1 votes:

pho75: RexTalionis: In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."

This has been a long time coming, and I personally know a number of conservative judges who have been waiting for the appropriate case to change this law. Just because the Supreme Court said it works one way a few decades ago, doesn't mean they got it right.

That said, this wouldn't be the right test case in my opinion.


Actually, it could be a good test case.  One of the elements of 2nd Degree Murder that the prosecutors was going after was the "hatred in heart" aspect of it.  In order to prove a civil rights violation, the Feds would have to prove the exact same element for which Zimmerman has already been acquitted.
2013-07-21 01:36:11 PM  
1 votes:

RexTalionis: We are writing to clearly state the ACLU's position on whether or not the Department of Justice (DOJ) should consider bringing federal civil rights or hate crimes charges as a result of the state court acquittal in the George Zimmerman case. Even though the Supreme Court permits a federal prosecution following a state prosecution, the ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction.


In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."


They feel the same way about Heller v DC.
2013-07-21 01:35:48 PM  
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: Holder and Obama are incompetent, race baiting morons. Stand your ground and race had not a farking thing to do with the Zim case and yet there they are on TV talking about both of them every chance they get.



Zimmerman is just your normal everyday guy stalking children after nightfall with a loaded firearm.  Race is the least of his issues...being a dangerous fool that starts confrontations only to end them with lethal force is far more serious.
pla
2013-07-21 01:32:39 PM  
1 votes:
RexTalionis : In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."

Not quite... More like: "Don't think you'll win this by bankrupting the poor bastard, he'll have almost as many resources at his disposal as you will".

Prosecutors often decide whether or not to pursue charges based on knowing that the defendant will break down (financially, emotionally, physically) and cop a plea long before the trial even starts.
2013-07-21 01:30:49 PM  
1 votes:

Madbassist1: LOL you're joking, right? You know ignorance is no excuse, right? If you assualt an off duty cop, you've still assualted (and will be prosecuted for) assualting a police officer.


Did I say anything about the charges being filed? People such as yourself want to make this out to be Zim seeing a uniformed officer and attacking and that's flat out ridiculous. It's also ridiculous to think that they would dismiss charges against a person for attacking an officer just because his daddy was an out of state magistrate. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that it was a case of mistaken identity.
2013-07-21 01:28:08 PM  
1 votes:

cman: Gotta give it to the ACLU

They are principled people who put their personal opinions below what is right


Image a world where we replaced the justice department with the ACLU... you know, people with principles?

Thumbs up for the ACLU.  I don't give 2 shiats about Zimmerman or the kid he killed (and neither, consequently should you... wasting time and energy forming opinions on inane random social happenings half a country away is about as productive as watching American Idol ... bread and circuses, oh how we haz them), but these are the kinds of people I actually want running the country.  Wouldn't we all be better off if folks could step outside their ideologies and do their damn jobs?

Holder is worse than worthless, he's actually damaging to society.  Seriously, Janet Reno was a trainwreck (and John Ashcroft was farking insane), but Holder is such a shill its almost comedic.... or it would be if he wasn't in a position of real power.  He's so busy sucking dick on Wall Street, I'm kind of surprised he came up for air long enough to even be bothered.
2013-07-21 01:27:49 PM  
1 votes:

lantawa: Some people....


sharetv.org

ARE YOU KIDDING? I'M CRAZY ENOUGH TO TAKE ON BATMAN, BUT NOT CRAZY ENOUGH TO MESS WITH THE IRS!
2013-07-21 01:26:15 PM  
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: The case was thrown out because of the evidence, that Zim had no idea he was grabbing an officer.


LOL you're joking, right? You know ignorance is no excuse, right? If you assualt an off duty cop, you've still assualted (and will be prosecuted for) assualting a police officer.

Note, I'm not saying you're lying, I just find your version difficult to believe, and...well, you're a goddamned troll.
2013-07-21 01:25:02 PM  
1 votes:

Jeep2011: Hopefully, the ACLU position will cause the crazies heads to explode and we will be done with crazy.


This. Would be nice.
2013-07-21 01:23:57 PM  
1 votes:

RexTalionis: We are writing to clearly state the ACLU's position on whether or not the Department of Justice (DOJ) should consider bringing federal civil rights or hate crimes charges as a result of the state court acquittal in the George Zimmerman case. Even though the Supreme Court permits a federal prosecution following a state prosecution, the ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction.


In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."


Because it is the correct one.

/Zimm got away with manslaughter.
//You go, ACLU.
2013-07-21 01:21:13 PM  
1 votes:

TerminalEchoes: Mambo Bananapatch: Popcorn Johnny: LasersHurt: Guilty without proof, of course, like all "facts" brought up about Martin to slander him after death.

So you're denying the existence of the text messages that show Trayvon having a conversation about wanting to purchase a gun? Perhaps you should exit these threads for a while, study up on the "facts" and then give it another go. It gets really tiring having to educate people such as yourself that choose to be ignorant of what is and isn't known about this whole affair.

So stop. It doesn't matter if Martin smoked weed, said nasty things, wanted a gun, or was a Mexican drug cartel kingpin. All Zimmerman knew about him that night was that he was a stranger. That was enough for him to "investigate".

...he said oversimplifyingly. You're forgetting one major thing: There had been a crime wave in that area. Robberies. All suspects were young black males. If Zimmerman was profiling, he had every right to do so.

Let me ask you something. If there had been previous reports of a pervert spotted in your neighborhood and you happen to catch a stranger sitting on a bench at the playground wearing a trenchcoat and sunglasses, wouldn't be at least a little concerned? Maybe concerned enough to ask him who he was?


Yes.

Of course, comparing a guy in a trench coat studying children at a playground to a guy walking home would be silly. A better comparison would be if the guy was not wearing a trench coat and leering at children, or otherwise behaving in any way unusually, but just walking past the playground, in which case, no, I would not.
2013-07-21 01:20:31 PM  
1 votes:

HectorSchwartz: Dear World,
If Trayvon did not get himself suspended from school, he would probably be alive today.
If Trayvon had just gone home, he would probably be alive today.
If Trayvon had not assaulted George Zimmerman he would probably be alive today.

Regards,
HS


If any of them decided to stop for a sandwich, he'd be alive today. The unfortunate thing is, he isn't.
2013-07-21 01:18:34 PM  
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: fnordfocus: He was charged before they realized Daddy was a judge.

This is what Team Trayvon actually believes. For the record, he was a magistrate in Virginia, not a judge.


That's about as stupid as when a certain Fark cop said that a constable wasn't a Police Officer even though he had a badge and arrest powers.

Magistrates in Virginia issue warrants, decide bail, etc.  These are things that are handled by people called "Judges" in other states, and that's enough to get a bit of professional courtesy for your kid.
2013-07-21 01:18:24 PM  
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: I'd much rather see an investigation into all of the crimes Obama was committing 35 years ago.


Such as what? Smoking doobies?
2013-07-21 01:17:00 PM  
1 votes:
I'd much rather see an investigation into all of the crimes Obama was committing 35 years ago.
2013-07-21 01:16:25 PM  
1 votes:

Mambo Bananapatch: Popcorn Johnny: LasersHurt: Guilty without proof, of course, like all "facts" brought up about Martin to slander him after death.

So you're denying the existence of the text messages that show Trayvon having a conversation about wanting to purchase a gun? Perhaps you should exit these threads for a while, study up on the "facts" and then give it another go. It gets really tiring having to educate people such as yourself that choose to be ignorant of what is and isn't known about this whole affair.

So stop. It doesn't matter if Martin smoked weed, said nasty things, wanted a gun, or was a Mexican drug cartel kingpin. All Zimmerman knew about him that night was that he was a stranger. That was enough for him to "investigate".


...he said oversimplifyingly. You're forgetting one major thing: There had been a crime wave in that area. Robberies. All suspects were young black males. If Zimmerman was profiling, he had every right to do so.

Let me ask you something. If there had been previous reports of a pervert spotted in your neighborhood and you happen to catch a stranger sitting on a bench at the playground wearing a trenchcoat and sunglasses, wouldn't be at least a little concerned? Maybe concerned enough to ask him who he was?
drp
2013-07-21 01:14:11 PM  
1 votes:

vygramul: I think it's more insane for people to champion either one of these award-winners since no one really knows what actually happened that night. Neither side is willing to accept even the HINT of a flaw. The Martin people don't think the suspicious jewelry reflects on his personality, and the Zimmerman people don't think assaulting a cop reflects on his personality. They're all insufficiently skeptical about the events of that night.


Well, the important thing is that you've found a way to feel superior to both.

/ but keep farkin' that strawchicken
2013-07-21 01:13:44 PM  
1 votes:
Following up on my other post, the ACLU went through a similar identity crisis after the acquittal of the cops who beat Rodney King:

After the acquittal of the police officers involved in the Rodney King beating on April 29, 1992, the Southern California chapter of the A.C.L.U. urged the Justice Department to try the officers on federal civil rights charges. The A.C.L.U.'s strict policy opposing double jeopardy was suspended in June, 1992 to consider the impact of the policy on the officers' case. On April 4, 1993, in a close vote, the national board of the A.C.L.U. enacted a resolution opposing any exceptions to the American Constitution's prohibition against double jeopardy. However, all ten of the black members who were present voted to allow for second trials on civil rights grounds after acquittal on local charges. [link]
2013-07-21 01:13:08 PM  
1 votes:
OPINION: If the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case were backwards (the opposite person was killed), Trayvon would already be on death row
2013-07-21 01:11:07 PM  
1 votes:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zimmerman wasn't tried on a civil rights violation, thus if the feds do so, it's not double jeopardy.
rpm
2013-07-21 01:05:54 PM  
1 votes:

Mock26: You should only have to face criminal or civil charges, not both.  I know that that is not how it is in this country, but that is the way that it should be. It is bullschitt that a criminal court can find you not guilty but then a civil court can find you guilty of the same crime.  How in all of Hades is that not double jeopardy?


"Beyond a reasonable doubt" v. "Preponderance of evidence". There's differing levels of standards, and the trials are meant to resolve different things. I don't think the government should be allowed to bring a civil case however.
2013-07-21 01:04:39 PM  
1 votes:

Kalashinator: Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Eric Holder the brainchild behind a monumental f*ckup that involved letting guns fall into the hands of Mexican cartel members-


He borrowed Obama's time machine to start the program in 2006.
2013-07-21 01:01:57 PM  
1 votes:
I watched a lot of the trial, and my take is that if there had been one reasonable person in that encounter, no one would have been hurt.

I think that Trayvon was cocky kid, who was emulating the thug lifestyle and was sick of the creepy white guy that was giving him a hard time, and maybe too eager to lay hands on someone. I think that it's a shame that no one is discussing the role of popular urban culture in all of this, because it was a contributing factor. Just not PC, I guess. I think that given Holder's and Obama's speeches, that the GOP research teams are going to be working overtime to tarnish Trayvon's halo, and that they're going to find a lot of juicy details that make him look non-innocent.

I think that Zimmerman was suffering from little man with a gun, wanna-be cop syndrome, and was looking for an excuse to project himself. I think that it's a shame that there wasn't more discussion of the role of gun culture in all of this, because it was a contributing factor. Just not PC, I guess.

I think that both parties contributed to the ultimate tragedy. I think that Trayvon threw the first punch, which was a mistake, even if he had been goaded into it, and I think that Zimmerman was a trigger happy, angry individual.

I think that the laws in Florida are crazy, but given them, justice was served. I think that the judge was actually biased against Zimmerman - throwing in manslaughter in the 11th hour would have absolutely allowed a appeal - but that the prosecution was both weak and had a poor case.

I think that both Holder and Obama did, in fact, play the race card to a degree, but that they did show bravery by taking a stance.

And I think that the ACLU should be applauded for standing up to the Feds.

//Agreed, just let this thing go.
2013-07-21 01:01:40 PM  
1 votes:

Kalashinator: Correct me if I'm wrong,




You're welcome.

2013-07-21 01:00:50 PM  
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: Zim was a a bar with friends and saw some dude grab one of his peeps. Turns out the guy was a plain clothes undercover cop. The fact that the charges were eventually dropped should be a huge red flag that this wasn't what some of Team Trayvon want to make it out to be. Do you really farking think they'd drop assault on an officer charges if they were valid?


He was charged before they realized Daddy was a judge.  That can make a lot of things go away.
2013-07-21 12:57:21 PM  
1 votes:
One of the interesting aspects of this story is that this is pretty much a complete 180 from what the ACLU said just a few days ago, when they were encouraging the Dept. of Justice to investigate Zimmerman. I'd love to know what kind of conversations took place behind the scenes at the ACLU.
2013-07-21 12:55:56 PM  
1 votes:

Vangor: vygramul: There's a difference between picking which case is relevant to a right, and which case affects a right at all.

... No, I do not think there is much difference there. If a case is relevant to a right, the case affects a right. Unless you mean a case is relevant to interpretation of a right and a case affects a right of an individual but would have no influence on case law since interpretation of the right is well established in the courts. In this latter instance, I would agree the ACLU does this, but I would say the ACLU does this to better utilize resources. As far as I know, though, the ACLU only chooses not to engage in Second Amendment cases because of the stance the Second Amendment is an individual rather than civil liberty and the fact organizations such as the NRA exist for this sole purpose.


I'll be exlicit: the ACLU has no interest in the second amendment.
2013-07-21 12:51:45 PM  
1 votes:

RandomAxe: If I understand your use of "perusing", I'd say probably somewhere near 50%, at some point during their teen years.


LOL yeah, okay.
2013-07-21 12:51:13 PM  
1 votes:
Would have been better if it was a letter from the NAACP.
2013-07-21 12:50:46 PM  
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: See You Next Tuesday: Name one well-adjusted teenager. Go on.

What % of teens are perusing the illegal purchase of a firearm?


Guilty without proof, of course, like all "facts" brought up about Martin to slander him after death.
2013-07-21 12:50:18 PM  
1 votes:

RexTalionis: We are writing to clearly state the ACLU's position on whether or not the Department of Justice (DOJ) should consider bringing federal civil rights or hate crimes charges as a result of the state court acquittal in the George Zimmerman case. Even though the Supreme Court permits a federal prosecution following a state prosecution, the ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction.


In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."


At the time of Brown v. Board of Education, the matter of school segregation was settled Constitutional law in opposition to Brown. ACLU filed anyway. They won.

There's also an originalist argument that the current double jeopardy interpretation is contrary to original intent.
2013-07-21 12:43:40 PM  
1 votes:

Nabb1: vygramul: Popcorn Johnny: Team Zim!

If you want to come across as being a Twilight fan, that's your business.

Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.


You're going to have to narrow that down.
2013-07-21 12:42:47 PM  
1 votes:
As much as I would like to see him OJ'ed in a civil court or other proceedings, he was found not guilty we need to stop kicking the dead horse.
2013-07-21 12:42:31 PM  
1 votes:
Well it would probably be appropriate to accuse the ACLU of racism at this point.
2013-07-21 12:41:06 PM  
1 votes:

RexTalionis: We are writing to clearly state the ACLU's position on whether or not the Department of Justice (DOJ) should consider bringing federal civil rights or hate crimes charges as a result of the state court acquittal in the George Zimmerman case. Even though the Supreme Court permits a federal prosecution following a state prosecution, the ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction.


In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."


The Supreme Court can't agree among themselves what the Constitution means. How else do you explain all the 5-4 decisions? If you go to your auto dealer and 3 mechanics tell you it's the water pump, and 2 mechanics tell you it's the thermostat, are you going to trust them?
2013-07-21 12:40:45 PM  
1 votes:

RexTalionis: Mentat: RexTalionis: We are writing to clearly state the ACLU's position on whether or not the Department of Justice (DOJ) should consider bringing federal civil rights or hate crimes charges as a result of the state court acquittal in the George Zimmerman case. Even though the Supreme Court permits a federal prosecution following a state prosecution, the ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction.


In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."

The Supreme Court has proven many times over the course of their history that their interpretation of the Constitution isn't always right.

Maybe. But, for now, that's the law.


And there's no better way to change the law then to do absolutely nothing.
2013-07-21 11:39:27 AM  
1 votes:

Mentat: RexTalionis: We are writing to clearly state the ACLU's position on whether or not the Department of Justice (DOJ) should consider bringing federal civil rights or hate crimes charges as a result of the state court acquittal in the George Zimmerman case. Even though the Supreme Court permits a federal prosecution following a state prosecution, the ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction.


In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."

The Supreme Court has proven many times over the course of their history that their interpretation of the Constitution isn't always right.


Maybe. But, for now, that's the law.
2013-07-21 10:53:07 AM  
1 votes:
Team Zim!
 
Displayed 134 of 134 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report