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(ACLU)   Dear Eric Holder; Your attempts at a federal case against George Zimmerman violates the double-jeopardy clause in the constitution and we will defend him if necessary. Sincerely - The ACLU   (aclu.org) divider line 548
    More: Interesting  
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15997 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Jul 2013 at 12:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-21 03:22:31 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Mistymtnhop: I'm sorry, I never saw where Martin was charged and convicted of trying to attain a firearm. And I've been following the case pretty closely. This is news to me. Is there a police report?

So in your world, the guy who arranges to meet the 14 year old at McDonald's for sex is innocent, right?


Either there's proof of this crime or there isn't. Is there proof of the guy meeting a kid for sex? If so then he can be charged with soliciting a minor, right? So, what crime did Trayvon Martin commit, get charged with and plead to? Oh wait, I get it. Innocent until proven guilty is only valid for your dreamy George Zimmerman, amIright? I love you Zimmerman Fanboys, you're nothing if not consistent.
 
2013-07-21 03:23:23 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Elegy: It is a sad day for our Galaxy.

Let me guess, 4chan?


Yeah, blatant copypasta. It was good enough I thought it deserved a repost.
 
2013-07-21 03:23:26 PM  

coyo: - why? Because Martin pounded him, high on skittles.

- why? Because Martin was creeped out by a loony with a gun.who was stalking him and got afraid, acting in self defense.

- why was Martin being stalked? Because he was a black dude and Zimmerman wanted to kill one.


That's your version of events.   One that is not borne out by the evidence.   The jury heard that theory, and unanimously rejected it.

- Martin was casing the neighborhood for burglary, having made a purchase at a nearby store in order to establish an alibi for his presence there.

- Zimmerman reported his suspicious behavior to the police and followed him at a distance in order to direct police to his location.

- Martin evaded observation, hid, and then brutally assaulted the "creepy-ass cracker" who was dissin' him in a surprise blind-side attack.

- As he lay on the ground, bleeding, with Martin standing over him continuing to pound his head into the sidewalk, Zimmerman drew and fired his sidearm in order to protect his own life.
 
2013-07-21 03:23:41 PM  

that bosnian sniper: Of course, as your linked article points out, that still does not excuse inconsistent application, especially in regards to other ethnically- or gender-charged cases such as that of Marissa Alexander (again, where's the outrage from the "Second Amendment Solutions" crowd that a black woman took their advice for once and was convicted despite having SYG and castle doctrine on her side?).


www.mlponline.net

Why do people keep pulling things from their ass about Marissa Alexander. That was never a stand your ground case, either. It was a clear cut case of attempted murder based on the evidence and Alexander's own statements.
 
2013-07-21 03:24:42 PM  

Mistymtnhop: Popcorn Johnny: Mistymtnhop: I'm sorry, I never saw where Martin was charged and convicted of trying to attain a firearm. And I've been following the case pretty closely. This is news to me. Is there a police report?

So in your world, the guy who arranges to meet the 14 year old at McDonald's for sex is innocent, right?

Either there's proof of this crime or there isn't. Is there proof of the guy meeting a kid for sex? If so then he can be charged with soliciting a minor, right? So, what crime did Trayvon Martin commit, get charged with and plead to? Oh wait, I get it. Innocent until proven guilty is only valid for your dreamy George Zimmerman, amIright? I love you Zimmerman Fanboys, you're nothing if not consistent.


Why did Martin confront Zimmerman then? oh I am sorry Let me post the Fetus photo of Martin for you, since he's innocent little fetus who did no harm.
 
2013-07-21 03:26:19 PM  

clyph: coyo: - why? Because Martin pounded him, high on skittles.

- why? Because Martin was creeped out by a loony with a gun.who was stalking him and got afraid, acting in self defense.

- why was Martin being stalked? Because he was a black dude and Zimmerman wanted to kill one.

That's your version of events.   One that is not borne out by the evidence.   The jury heard that theory, and unanimously rejected it.

- Martin was casing the neighborhood for burglary, having made a purchase at a nearby store in order to establish an alibi for his presence there.

- Zimmerman reported his suspicious behavior to the police and followed him at a distance in order to direct police to his location.

- Martin evaded observation, hid, and then brutally assaulted the "creepy-ass cracker" who was dissin' him in a surprise blind-side attack.

- As he lay on the ground, bleeding, with Martin standing over him continuing to pound his head into the sidewalk, Zimmerman drew and fired his sidearm in order to protect his own life.


What exactly was suspicious? Being a black kid and buying stuff? I suppose Floridians take that as suspicious, knowing that state.
 
2013-07-21 03:27:16 PM  

Elegy: Yeah, blatant copypasta. It was good enough I thought it deserved a repost.


I get more lulz from those lovable scamps than from any other website by far.
 
2013-07-21 03:27:26 PM  

Misconduc: Why did Martin confront Zimmerman then? oh I am sorry Let me post the Fetus photo of Martin for you, since he's innocent little fetus who did no harm.


Maybe Martin thought Zimmerman was going to try to rape him, since he was stalking him.
 
2013-07-21 03:27:28 PM  

Nemo's Brother: Does Obama ever handle a situation correctly?  What a joke he has turned out to be.


I would Obama and Holder's words and actions on this particular situation, more than any other,  are pushing middle of the road white voters back to the Republican party.

 It's a catastrophe for the Democrats. I wonder what the leadership of the Democratic party thinks of this.

If there is a white Dem. candidate next time, you are not going to get that 97% black vote. Many will stay home. They'll be left with TV pundits, Jews, Gays, Hispanics, my sister and half the blacks
 
2013-07-21 03:30:36 PM  

Vectron: Nemo's Brother: Does Obama ever handle a situation correctly?  What a joke he has turned out to be.

I would Obama and Holder's words and actions on this particular situation, more than any other,  are pushing middle of the road white voters back to the Republican party.

 It's a catastrophe for the Democrats. I wonder what the leadership of the Democratic party thinks of this.

If there is a white Dem. candidate next time, you are not going to get that 97% black vote. Many will stay home. They'll be left with TV pundits, Jews, Gays, Hispanics, my sister and half the blacks


Study it out!
 
2013-07-21 03:32:09 PM  

Mock26: Look a OJ Simpson. Criminal court acquitted him of murder charges, yet a civil court ruled that he was responsible for their deaths. One crime, two different rulings.


Not one crime. One event, yes, but the second had nothing to do with crime; that's for a criminal court.

For instance, you might be tried, criminally, for destruction of property (we'll say arson). That is a crime with a very specific penalty. That also has nothing to do with the fact that I am now out of a house because of you, and I would like a house again, thankyouverymuch, so I sue you for the loss of my house, possessions, perhaps lost wages, etc. - all things not covered by the law that says "don't set fire to people's homes."

In other words, though they stem from the same event, they are entirely different accusations; this is no different from you being charged criminally for discharging a weapon in city limits as well as attempted murder because you shot someone, despite the fact the two charges stem from exactly the same event (you firing a weapon).
 
2013-07-21 03:33:55 PM  

coyo: Popcorn Johnny: coyo: Obama was a fool for thinking his opponents had any shred of human decency or honor, that's for sure.

Obama's supporters were a fool for thinking he was different from any other politician.

What evidence do you have that they thought that? It's an interesting myth you buy in to, that he was 'worshipped'.


Pretty much every serious politician ever has had their 'worshippers' - those that believe they can do no wrong and will twist reality to maintain that view. It's pretty standard human behavior. Why would Obama be different? Methinks you're a touch too sensitive on this issue.

/He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.
 
2013-07-21 03:35:01 PM  

Skyrmion: This Florida thing? You should check out the Tampa Bay Times cataloging of Florida's fatal stand your ground cases:
Black perpetrators: 25 justified, 7 convicted.
White perpetrators: 39 justified, 30 convicted.

I'm not ruling out that there could be a racial bias to the way SYG laws are administered throughout the country. But it doesn't seem to be obviously manifesting in Florida.


There is a racial bias to the way Florida judges SYG. It's biased in favor of black people.
 
2013-07-21 03:41:05 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Elegy: Yeah, blatant copypasta. It was good enough I thought it deserved a repost.

I get more lulz from those lovable scamps than from any other website by far.


It's the only reason I put up with the rest of their shiat - they generate funnier material, faster, than anywhere else on the Internet.
 
2013-07-21 03:42:24 PM  

Elegy: Popcorn Johnny: Elegy: Yeah, blatant copypasta. It was good enough I thought it deserved a repost.

I get more lulz from those lovable scamps than from any other website by far.

It's the only reason I put up with the rest of their shiat - they generate funnier material, faster, than anywhere else on the Internet.


I've found Freeper land is good for that. But the terror comes in when you realize these people aren't trying to be funny.
 
2013-07-21 03:42:44 PM  
I think the Zimmerman verdict was correct and want people to get over it and move on.  There's no justification for a Civil Rights case.
That said, the ACLU's reasoning is bogus.  It's a different charge in a different court and isn't double jeopardy.  That's also how wrongful death suits get around double jeopardy, since they're civil and not criminal cases.
 
2013-07-21 03:43:19 PM  

Elegy: It's the only reason I put up with the rest of their shiat - they generate funnier material, faster, than anywhere else on the Internet.


They've done a good job getting rid of the cheese pizza. I wish they had a separate board for gore and all would be well.
 
2013-07-21 03:43:57 PM  

Deedeemarz: RandomAxe: There was almost no chance whatsoever that Zimmerman was going to be convicted of homicide or even manslaughter in a fair trial. There just wasn't evidence available to prove it, and the prosecution, unsurprisingly, was terrible. They should have gone after something like reckless endangerment, put him away for a couple of years, and pulled his gun license.

I don't doubt that race was an issue in the altercation -- although absolutely it was an issue in the media and in the trial. I think Zimmerman is an ass, a danger to himself and others, and that he could just as easily and just as likely shot and killed a white kid. If Zimmerman was 'protecting' my neighborhood, you bet I'd be rooting against him.

You just summed up the entire situation more correctly than any of the "experts" could ever have done...


This comes as no surprise. RandomAxe tends to do that.
 
2013-07-21 03:44:38 PM  
There are dueling rallies planned for 4pm in Houston.

Link
 
2013-07-21 03:45:05 PM  

Millennium: To proceed with a case here, the feds would have to argue that Florida's charges only covered the actual shooting, and not the events that preceded it.


The state case involved the preceding events. 2nd degree murder is a "depraved heart" case, so the preceding actions were part of the state case.
 
2013-07-21 03:45:59 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Mock26: Look a OJ Simpson. Criminal court acquitted him of murder charges, yet a civil court ruled that he was responsible for their deaths. One crime, two different rulings.

Not one crime. One event, yes, but the second had nothing to do with crime; that's for a criminal court.

For instance, you might be tried, criminally, for destruction of property (we'll say arson). That is a crime with a very specific penalty. That also has nothing to do with the fact that I am now out of a house because of you, and I would like a house again, thankyouverymuch, so I sue you for the loss of my house, possessions, perhaps lost wages, etc. - all things not covered by the law that says "don't set fire to people's homes."

In other words, though they stem from the same event, they are entirely different accusations; this is no different from you being charged criminally for discharging a weapon in city limits as well as attempted murder because you shot someone, despite the fact the two charges stem from exactly the same event (you firing a weapon).


I the criminal court finds me not guilty of arson then that has everything to do with you being out of a home, because I am not guilty of setting your house on fire!
 
2013-07-21 03:53:11 PM  

hardinparamedic: I've found Freeper land is good for that. But the terror comes in when you realize these people aren't trying to be funny.


I like to pop my head in there from time to time for a laugh and to see what they are posting about. The scary thing about the Zimmerman trial has been that the articles they have been posting have contained a higher quotient of truth than the articles in HLN and MSNBC news. It makes me cringe, but stopped clocks, etc.

Popcorn Johnny: They've done a good job getting rid of the cheese pizza. I wish they had a separate board for gore and all would be well.


I try to stay out of the cancer containment unit known as /b/ unless I've been drinking heavily. Gore is only one of the many reasons.
 
2013-07-21 03:56:40 PM  

Elegy: I try to stay out of the cancer containment unit known as /b/ unless I've been drinking heavily. Gore is only one of the many reasons.


I don't go to /b/ much, I spend most of my time on /pol/ /sp/ and /tv/.
 
2013-07-21 03:58:04 PM  
ACLU Defends Zimmerman
Heads ASSPLODE natiowide


www.planetcalypsoforum.com
 
2013-07-21 03:58:46 PM  

BolloxReader: Popcorn Johnny: See You Next Tuesday: Name one well-adjusted teenager. Go on.

What % of teens are perusing the illegal purchase of a firearm?

A lot of them. Teens do stupid stuff, and usually the parents have no idea. I helped pull a prank in high school that today would have had me up on hundreds of federal terrorism charges and probably gotten me sentenced to effectively life in prison despite there being no possibility of physical harm to others.

Even back then I could have been charged with at least a few federal crimes and I knew that. Five of my friends were charged with computer crimes, including hacking into the school's computer system and redistributing students to new, fake classes just before report cards were printed. Others repeatedly got busted for receiving stolen property for buying cheap electronics off the street, driving without a license, and vandalism (post-game celebration after the first winning season in our school's history). I was on our school's scholastic bowl team and we got kicked out of a bunch of restaurants around the state.

Teens do stupid criminal stuff. especially smart ones.



This is true, teens do stupid criminal stuff. Some of them even assault people. "Whoop Ass" I believe they call it.
 
2013-07-21 04:00:15 PM  
Not a constitutional lawyer but I was wondering about the Double Jeopardy thing rearing it's "ugly" head.
I mean we all agreed on that right?  And we've been using it for at least a while now so it's not new.
So I would think that even as lousy as it is, we have to eat it, right?

Remember -
"Life's a Schtt Sandwich son.
The more bread you have, the less Schtt you have to eat.


No, I don't think the verdict was right.
Yes, I think the AG screwed the case
Yes I think we have to obey the law.
Better 100 guilty go free than ONE innocent be convicted.
FWIW, do not believe in death penalty either - so THERE 8-D
 
2013-07-21 04:00:55 PM  
Stand your ground logic:
The killer was always the most afraid... Not Guilty.
The killed was, well, not standing his ground (or lacked the responsibility to carry a gun). Guilty.
The one that shots a warning shot not so much... Guilty.
 
2013-07-21 04:03:47 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Elegy: I try to stay out of the cancer containment unit known as /b/ unless I've been drinking heavily. Gore is only one of the many reasons.

I don't go to /b/ much, I spend most of my time on /pol/ /sp/ and /tv/.


Yeah, I'm on /pol/, /int/, /v/, and /vr/ mostly. Video games and politics, that's me.
 
2013-07-21 04:04:47 PM  
It's hilarious this mockery continues.  I will predict no federal case, possible civil trial that will be dismissed.  I will also continue to laugh at the uninformed, as should we all.  They deserve our derision.
 
2013-07-21 04:05:17 PM  

The Numbers: coyo: Popcorn Johnny: coyo: Obama was a fool for thinking his opponents had any shred of human decency or honor, that's for sure.

Obama's supporters were a fool for thinking he was different from any other politician.

What evidence do you have that they thought that? It's an interesting myth you buy in to, that he was 'worshipped'.

Pretty much every serious politician ever has had their 'worshippers' - those that believe they can do no wrong and will twist reality to maintain that view. It's pretty standard human behavior. Why would Obama be different? Methinks you're a touch too sensitive on this issue.

/He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.


The only people I've ever heard refer to him as 'the messiah' are Republicans. As for being 'naughty', and a 'boy', he's the most adult politician in the room. The Republican caucus is a bunch of nasty, destructive children and the Democratic leadership in general is spineless and cowardly. I suppose you can call the Republicans cowardly as well, as they've been too spineless to put any substantial ideas of their own out there and are scared to death of the TealibanTeahadists.
 
2013-07-21 04:05:43 PM  

WTFDYW: I did not see in the letter where the ACLU said they would defend him.



By publicly biatch-slapping Holder and the Race-Baiters, they are effectively "defending" not only Zimmerman, but the rights of all Americans.
 
2013-07-21 04:05:51 PM  

Abuse Liability: It's hilarious this mockery continues.  I will predict no federal case, possible civil trial that will be dismissed.  I will also continue to laugh at the uninformed, as should we all.  They deserve our derision.


It gets better, Jesse Jackson has said that the United Nations needs to investigate.
 
2013-07-21 04:06:51 PM  

Pharque-it: Stand your ground logic:
The killer was always the most afraid... Not Guilty.
The killed was, well, not standing his ground (or lacked the responsibility to carry a gun). Guilty.
The one that shots a warning shot not so much... Guilty.


Pretty much. As the law was written, the jury probably came to the letter of the law decision. That law is among the many reasons we have a Florida tag here. Maybe the sun bakes their brains.
 
2013-07-21 04:09:20 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Abuse Liability: It's hilarious this mockery continues.  I will predict no federal case, possible civil trial that will be dismissed.  I will also continue to laugh at the uninformed, as should we all.  They deserve our derision.

It gets better, Jesse Jackson has said that the United Nations needs to investigate.


Well if Jesse Jackson says it, I bet the United Nations will be all over it.

/snert
 
2013-07-21 04:09:21 PM  

Amos Quito: WTFDYW: I did not see in the letter where the ACLU said they would defend him.


By publicly biatch-slapping Holder and the Race-Baiters, they are effectively "defending" not only Zimmerman, but the rights of all Americans.


Looks in the republican dictionary :

Race Baiter :  Anyone who looks in the history books and notices racism perpetrated by whites (specifically) and actually talks about it. Also, anyone who claims that racism exists today.

Well, friggen sign me up and give me my 'race baiter' badge.
 
2013-07-21 04:10:39 PM  
Dear ACLU,

He's not being charged for the same crime. He was charged with manslaughter, now he is likely to be charged with violating the civil rights of the deceased on the pretext of his race, age and sex. And you didn't put your answer in the form of a question. NO DOUBLE JEOPARDY FOR YOU.

Love, Brantgoose
 
2013-07-21 04:11:39 PM  

coyo: Amos Quito: WTFDYW: I did not see in the letter where the ACLU said they would defend him.


By publicly biatch-slapping Holder and the Race-Baiters, they are effectively "defending" not only Zimmerman, but the rights of all Americans.

Looks in the republican dictionary :

Race Baiter :  Anyone who looks in the history books and notices racism perpetrated by whites (specifically) and actually talks about it. Also, anyone who claims that racism exists today.

Well, friggen sign me up and give me my 'race baiter' badge.


Oh please. That's just white guilt talking.
/sarcasm
 
2013-07-21 04:12:12 PM  

brantgoose: Dear ACLU,

He's not being charged for the same crime. He was charged with manslaughter, now he is likely to be charged with violating the civil rights of the deceased on the pretext of his race, age and sex. And you didn't put your answer in the form of a question. NO DOUBLE JEOPARDY FOR YOU.

Love, Brantgoose


Know how we all know you know nothing about this case.
/We know.
//know know know
 
2013-07-21 04:16:56 PM  

SithLord: [2.bp.blogspot.com image 400x383]

Yeah, Obama was really struggling with racial prejudice 35 years ago.  What a farkin' hack.


No shiat, try growing up WHITE in Hawaii all those years ago. I'm not sure if it got any better but growing up there in the 70's and 80's (looking like a kid from the village of the damned) was interesting and difficult at times. I got to experience racial hatred and intolerance personally and so I generally know that all races of people can be assholes and screaming about racism is racism more often than not.

Now I hate everyone equally.
 
2013-07-21 04:16:59 PM  

The Lone Gunman: cman: Gotta give it to the ACLU

They are principled people who put their personal opinions below what is right

Seriously, the trial is over.  And I'm sure that there will be a civil trial, but the DOJ needs to step away from this.

Besides, jailing Zimmerman at this point will accomplish nothing.  If they really want justice for Trayvon, they need to get rid of "Stand Your Ground", because cops have a tough enough time without prospective serial killers posing as "protectors of the community".


Stand Your Ground had nothing to do with the case.  The defense didn't even bring it up in the trial.
 
2013-07-21 04:17:57 PM  
Why are we still focused on this case when there are real things going on that actually matter?
 
2013-07-21 04:21:08 PM  

Skyrmion: One of the interesting aspects of this story is that this is pretty much a complete 180 from what the ACLU said just a few days ago, when they were encouraging the Dept. of Justice to investigate Zimmerman. I'd love to know what kind of conversations took place behind the scenes at the ACLU.


My guess:  A lawyer experienced in such matters advised the ACLU leadership that a federal civil rights case against Zimmerman would be a losing proposition (and based on the absence of evidence that Zimmerman shot Martin because he was black, it would be).  Since it would have looked bad for the ACLU to admit that it was mistaken on this point, it had to find some other way to come out against a civil-rights based prosecution of Zimmerman.  I think a Fifth Amendment argument against prosecuting Zimmerman is bullsh*t; back in the '60s, the Johnson administration successfully prosecuted several murderers of civil/voting rights workers in the South under civil rights statutes after the latter were acquitted by local courts of their murders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_Liuzzo?oldid=0
 
2013-07-21 04:22:01 PM  

vbob: Anyone tried to get through this yet? (just over 35 minutes)
Starts out weak, but then starts listing a lot of stuff that came out in the trial.
For some reason, the MSM failed to mention a lot. Or so it would seem.
Anyway, for those who need more - here 'tis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuH_YuBtH40

Compelling? or Gut Wrenching. You be the judge.
/that's a pun


Ah. The self proclaimed Philosopher who builds his strawmen and knocks them down.
 
2013-07-21 04:24:48 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zimmerman wasn't tried on a civil rights violation, thus if the feds do so, it's not double jeopardy.


Precedent says you're right.  Look up Viola Liuzzo.
 
2013-07-21 04:30:29 PM  

tirob: Precedent says you're right.  Look up Viola Liuzzo.


Are you being serious right now?
 
2013-07-21 04:35:31 PM  
I think "Dual Soveringty Doctrine" applies to this. Am I wrong?
 
2013-07-21 04:35:39 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Skyrmion: She said Trayvon threw the first punch?

Yes, she said that she believes Trayvon threw the first punch.


Not in court.
 
2013-07-21 04:38:28 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Popcorn Johnny: Holder and Obama are incompetent, race baiting morons. Stand your ground and race had not a farking thing to do with the Zim case and yet there they are on TV talking about both of them every chance they get.

Stand your ground had nothing to do with it.  ? You're dumb.


FIFY

/idiot
 
2013-07-21 04:38:55 PM  

tirob: Not in court.


Of course not, her court testimony was all spun to make it look like Trayvon was just trying to get home.
 
2013-07-21 04:39:08 PM  

OgreMagi: The Lone Gunman: cman: Gotta give it to the ACLU

They are principled people who put their personal opinions below what is right

Seriously, the trial is over.  And I'm sure that there will be a civil trial, but the DOJ needs to step away from this.

Besides, jailing Zimmerman at this point will accomplish nothing.  If they really want justice for Trayvon, they need to get rid of "Stand Your Ground", because cops have a tough enough time without prospective serial killers posing as "protectors of the community".

Stand Your Ground had nothing to do with the case.  The defense didn't even bring it up in the trial.


Was the jury not told that as long as Zimmerman felt that his life was threatened at any time during the incident that he would nit have been found guilty?

This has echos of bernard Goetz, but even Goetz wasn't looking for trouble.

Zimmerman was acting foolishly and caused someone's death. He will have to live with that for the rest of his life. I am sure there are those hear who cheer and revel Martin's death, but, well, there are no monsters like people can be.
 
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