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(ACLU)   Dear Eric Holder; Your attempts at a federal case against George Zimmerman violates the double-jeopardy clause in the constitution and we will defend him if necessary. Sincerely - The ACLU   (aclu.org) divider line 549
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15981 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Jul 2013 at 12:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-21 12:52:23 PM
Dual sovereignty - see US v. Lanza.
 
2013-07-21 12:52:38 PM
I love the ACLU. They seem to think our rights belong to all of us.
 
2013-07-21 12:52:49 PM

Popcorn Johnny: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Stand your ground had nothing to do with it? You're dumb.

Oh boy, here we go. Please enlighten us as to what stand your ground had to do with the case.


One of the jurors said it was a factor influencing her decision in spite of it not being brought up by the lawyers.
 
2013-07-21 12:52:59 PM
But we have to keep retrying him...

www.at40.com

until we get the verdict we want!
 
2013-07-21 12:53:07 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Eric Holder the brainchild behind a monumental f*ckup that involved letting guns fall into the hands of Mexican cartel members--in order to track said cartel members--but resulted in the death of a Border Patrol agent and potentially an untold number of Mexican civilians/cops/military?  Which would make him an accessory to the murder of a US Federal officer and X number of citizens of a foreign country.  Which makes AG Holder even so much as looking at a case of enacting justice of gun violence kinda sorta super hypocritical?

Or was that that Neopolitan chick who used to be in charge of the ATF?  Honest question.
 
2013-07-21 12:53:53 PM

LasersHurt: Guilty without proof, of course, like all "facts" brought up about Martin to slander him after death.


So you're denying the existence of the text messages that show Trayvon having a conversation about wanting to purchase a gun? Perhaps you should exit these threads for a while, study up on the "facts" and then give it another go. It gets really tiring having to educate people such as yourself that choose to be ignorant of what is and isn't known about this whole affair.
 
2013-07-21 12:53:54 PM
img543.imageshack.us
 
2013-07-21 12:53:55 PM

Dahnkster: But ah cain't say no prayers in skool!

[blog.jonolan.net image 640x800]


Does anyone notice that she's holding a copy of Aleister Crowley's Magick In Theory And Practice?
 
2013-07-21 12:54:25 PM
I may not always agree with their positions on individual matters, but this is yet another reminder of why the ACLU is absolutely necessary in a society like ours. Public sentiment can lead to pretty crappy decisionmaking by elected officials, and unaccountable judges have absolutely been wrong in the past, so it's hugely important to have groups that will stand with unpopular citizens whose resources aren't bottomless.
 
2013-07-21 12:55:06 PM

Kalashinator: Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Eric Holder the brainchild behind a monumental f*ckup that involved letting guns fall into the hands of Mexican cartel members--in order to track said cartel members--but resulted in the death of a Border Patrol agent and potentially an untold number of Mexican civilians/cops/military?  Which would make him an accessory to the murder of a US Federal officer and X number of citizens of a foreign country.  Which makes AG Holder even so much as looking at a case of enacting justice of gun violence kinda sorta super hypocritical?

Or was that that Neopolitan chick who used to be in charge of the ATF?  Honest question.


Magic time machine?
 
2013-07-21 12:55:07 PM

LasersHurt: Popcorn Johnny: See You Next Tuesday: Name one well-adjusted teenager. Go on.

What % of teens are perusing the illegal purchase of a firearm?

Guilty without proof, of course, like all "facts" brought up about Martin to slander him after death.


So you're saying all those pictures of him and his text message records are completely fabricated just to make him look bad? Enjoying your first day on Fark, Mr. Sharpton?
 
2013-07-21 12:55:17 PM
Kalashinator, the 'gunwalking' sting projects, which were all stupid, started in 2006, under W.
 
2013-07-21 12:55:56 PM

Vangor: vygramul: There's a difference between picking which case is relevant to a right, and which case affects a right at all.

... No, I do not think there is much difference there. If a case is relevant to a right, the case affects a right. Unless you mean a case is relevant to interpretation of a right and a case affects a right of an individual but would have no influence on case law since interpretation of the right is well established in the courts. In this latter instance, I would agree the ACLU does this, but I would say the ACLU does this to better utilize resources. As far as I know, though, the ACLU only chooses not to engage in Second Amendment cases because of the stance the Second Amendment is an individual rather than civil liberty and the fact organizations such as the NRA exist for this sole purpose.


I'll be exlicit: the ACLU has no interest in the second amendment.
 
2013-07-21 12:56:12 PM
I don't understand why people are going after stand your ground because of this case.  Zimmerman physically couldn't retreat because he was on his back on the ground with a man straddling him who was pounding him in the ground.
 
2013-07-21 12:56:32 PM

"A jury found Zimmerman not guilty, and that should be the end of the criminal case."


Zimmerman took a life and I had wished he was found guilty. But I agree with the ACLU, he was found not guilty and that's that. It's time to move on. On my facebook people are posting pictures from the Travon marches taking place. I keep thinking what's the point? It's over. If anything, maybe action should now be focused on the "Stand Your Ground" law. Is it really a sensible law as written or should changes be made?

 
2013-07-21 12:56:39 PM

Kalashinator: Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Eric Holder the brainchild behind a monumental f*ckup that involved letting guns fall into the hands of Mexican cartel members--in order to track said cartel members--but resulted in the death of a Border Patrol agent and potentially an untold number of Mexican civilians/cops/military?  Which would make him an accessory to the murder of a US Federal officer and X number of citizens of a foreign country.  Which makes AG Holder even so much as looking at a case of enacting justice of gun violence kinda sorta super hypocritical?

Or was that that Neopolitan chick who used to be in charge of the ATF?  Honest question.


Good question.

On another note, maybe the ACLU is good for something, after all.
 
2013-07-21 12:56:44 PM
this is like liberal division by zero!

hahahahahhahhahahahhahahahahaa!!
 
2013-07-21 12:56:44 PM

Kome: One of the jurors said it was a factor influencing her decision in spite of it not being brought up by the lawyers.


That doesn't make it a part of the case. We know for a fact that it didn't apply to Zim's actions, as he was pinned to the ground and unable to flee. Any speculation that Trayvon was standing his ground is not supported by any evidence.

Obama and Holder going on TV and denouncing stand your ground laws when there's not one shred of evidence that they had anything to do with the incident is moronic.
 
2013-07-21 12:57:12 PM
Another all white organization goes full racist.


I keed.
 
2013-07-21 12:57:21 PM
One of the interesting aspects of this story is that this is pretty much a complete 180 from what the ACLU said just a few days ago, when they were encouraging the Dept. of Justice to investigate Zimmerman. I'd love to know what kind of conversations took place behind the scenes at the ACLU.
 
2013-07-21 12:57:39 PM

WizardofToast: macadamnut: Won't somebody just hurry up and shoot the idiot? It is their 2nd Amendment right after all.

They should just wait it out like with OJ and see if he goes to jail for another crime.


Or just wait for him to shoot himself fumbling with his drive-thru Popeye's chicken. Or does he get free Chik-Fil-A for life now?
 
2013-07-21 12:58:00 PM
holy crap. i'm joining. i'll put the card in my wallet right next to my temple rec and NRA Life Member card.
 
2013-07-21 12:58:37 PM
img2.timeinc.net
hey guys, whats going on in this thread
 
2013-07-21 12:58:53 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Popcorn Johnny: Holder and Obama are incompetent, race baiting morons. Stand your ground and race had not a farking thing to do with the Zim case and yet there they are on TV talking about both of them every chance they get.

Stand your ground had nothing to do with it? You're dumb.


Actually the jury did receive instruction to the effect Zim could stand his ground.  So to that extent "Stand Your Ground" did have something to do with the case.  However, the prosecution and defense lawyers both had a hand in writing the instructions to the jury.  So it goes.

 http://www.scribd.com/doc/153354467/George-Zimmerman-Trial-Final-Ju ry- Instructions

page 12

"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent
the commission of a forcible felony. "
 
2013-07-21 12:59:32 PM

Kome: Popcorn Johnny: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Stand your ground had nothing to do with it? You're dumb.

Oh boy, here we go. Please enlighten us as to what stand your ground had to do with the case.

One of the jurors said it was a factor influencing her decision in spite of it not being brought up by the lawyers.


Yeah, that juror was kind of a nut. She was trying to cash in with a book deal until protests squashed it.
 
2013-07-21 12:59:36 PM
When will the fed's war on Hispanics end? Leave Zimmerman alone already.
 
2013-07-21 12:59:47 PM
I've got a better idea.

Why don't they just get some rope and a horse, find a nice tree and get it over with?
 
2013-07-21 01:00:50 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Zim was a a bar with friends and saw some dude grab one of his peeps. Turns out the guy was a plain clothes undercover cop. The fact that the charges were eventually dropped should be a huge red flag that this wasn't what some of Team Trayvon want to make it out to be. Do you really farking think they'd drop assault on an officer charges if they were valid?


He was charged before they realized Daddy was a judge.  That can make a lot of things go away.
 
2013-07-21 01:00:53 PM

Plant Rights Activist: [img2.timeinc.net image 300x400]
hey guys, whats going on in this thread


the New Black Panthers just put a price on your head. $10k.
 
2013-07-21 01:01:23 PM

RandomAxe: There was almost no chance whatsoever that Zimmerman was going to be convicted of homicide or even manslaughter in a fair trial. There just wasn't evidence available to prove it, and the prosecution, unsurprisingly, was terrible. They should have gone after something like reckless endangerment, put him away for a couple of years, and pulled his gun license.

I don't doubt that race was an issue in the altercation -- although absolutely it was an issue in the media and in the trial. I think Zimmerman is an ass, a danger to himself and others, and that he could just as easily and just as likely shot and killed a white kid. If Zimmerman was 'protecting' my neighborhood, you bet I'd be rooting against him.


You just summed up the entire situation more correctly than any of the "experts" could ever have done. Zimmerman was then and still is a jackass and will probably end up making more poor choices in the future. But there just wasn't enough evidence to convict him I the crime they chose to charge him with. Their mistake.
 
2013-07-21 01:01:40 PM

Kalashinator: Correct me if I'm wrong,




You're welcome.

 
2013-07-21 01:01:43 PM

Kalashinator: Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Eric Holder the brainchild behind a monumental f*ckup that involved letting guns fall into the hands of Mexican cartel members--in order to track said cartel members--but resulted in the death of a Border Patrol agent and potentially an untold number of Mexican civilians/cops/military?  Which would make him an accessory to the murder of a US Federal officer and X number of citizens of a foreign country.  Which makes AG Holder even so much as looking at a case of enacting justice of gun violence kinda sorta super hypocritical?

Or was that that Neopolitan chick who used to be in charge of the ATF?  Honest question.


Yes
 
2013-07-21 01:01:57 PM
I watched a lot of the trial, and my take is that if there had been one reasonable person in that encounter, no one would have been hurt.

I think that Trayvon was cocky kid, who was emulating the thug lifestyle and was sick of the creepy white guy that was giving him a hard time, and maybe too eager to lay hands on someone. I think that it's a shame that no one is discussing the role of popular urban culture in all of this, because it was a contributing factor. Just not PC, I guess. I think that given Holder's and Obama's speeches, that the GOP research teams are going to be working overtime to tarnish Trayvon's halo, and that they're going to find a lot of juicy details that make him look non-innocent.

I think that Zimmerman was suffering from little man with a gun, wanna-be cop syndrome, and was looking for an excuse to project himself. I think that it's a shame that there wasn't more discussion of the role of gun culture in all of this, because it was a contributing factor. Just not PC, I guess.

I think that both parties contributed to the ultimate tragedy. I think that Trayvon threw the first punch, which was a mistake, even if he had been goaded into it, and I think that Zimmerman was a trigger happy, angry individual.

I think that the laws in Florida are crazy, but given them, justice was served. I think that the judge was actually biased against Zimmerman - throwing in manslaughter in the 11th hour would have absolutely allowed a appeal - but that the prosecution was both weak and had a poor case.

I think that both Holder and Obama did, in fact, play the race card to a degree, but that they did show bravery by taking a stance.

And I think that the ACLU should be applauded for standing up to the Feds.

//Agreed, just let this thing go.
 
2013-07-21 01:02:05 PM

Kriggerel: I've got a better idea.

Why don't they just get some rope and a horse, find a nice tree and get it over with?


and execute Laura Murphy ? goodness, why?
 
2013-07-21 01:02:30 PM

GentlemanJ: Dahnkster: But ah cain't say no prayers in skool!

[blog.jonolan.net image 640x800]

Does anyone notice that she's holding a copy of Aleister Crowley's Magick In Theory And Practice?


No, because that would mean that we are social misfits.
 
2013-07-21 01:02:44 PM
Yayy more media race baiting that drives web clicks & raises revenue

Al Sharpton is in his glory, he hasn't had this much exposure since Tawana Brawley
 
2013-07-21 01:02:49 PM

Kriggerel: I've got a better idea.

Why don't they just get some rope and a horse, find a nice tree and get it over with?


Killing Zimmerman will just render any supporter of Martin as evil and barbaric to the media. It's probably give mud to be thrown at future supporters of other victims of a criminal case. It will just divide the country further.
 
2013-07-21 01:03:04 PM
Alan Dershowitz has come out and said that he agrees that the DOJ should investigate .........

Angela Corey.

Can't wait for that biatch to go down.
 
2013-07-21 01:03:37 PM

Useless Destruction of Exergy: ... and older Mississippi members of the Klu Klux Klan nod in agreement and watch with interest.


Black kid and an Hispanic man get into a fight. Black kid killed.

White population is blamed.

That's  your America.
 
2013-07-21 01:04:39 PM

Kalashinator: Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Eric Holder the brainchild behind a monumental f*ckup that involved letting guns fall into the hands of Mexican cartel members-


He borrowed Obama's time machine to start the program in 2006.
 
2013-07-21 01:05:51 PM

fnordfocus: He was charged before they realized Daddy was a judge.


This is what Team Trayvon actually believes. For the record, he was a magistrate in Virginia, not a judge.
 
rpm
2013-07-21 01:05:54 PM

Mock26: You should only have to face criminal or civil charges, not both.  I know that that is not how it is in this country, but that is the way that it should be. It is bullschitt that a criminal court can find you not guilty but then a civil court can find you guilty of the same crime.  How in all of Hades is that not double jeopardy?


"Beyond a reasonable doubt" v. "Preponderance of evidence". There's differing levels of standards, and the trials are meant to resolve different things. I don't think the government should be allowed to bring a civil case however.
 
2013-07-21 01:09:22 PM

Plant Rights Activist: hey guys, whats going on in this thread


We need to retry him now that he wrote "how I did it" book.
 
2013-07-21 01:09:24 PM

rpm: Mock26: You should only have to face criminal or civil charges, not both.  I know that that is not how it is in this country, but that is the way that it should be. It is bullschitt that a criminal court can find you not guilty but then a civil court can find you guilty of the same crime.  How in all of Hades is that not double jeopardy?

"Beyond a reasonable doubt" v. "Preponderance of evidence". There's differing levels of standards, and the trials are meant to resolve different things. I don't think the government should be allowed to bring a civil case however.


Well the government does have to keep us occupied with things that will divert our attentions away from all the other crap they're doing.
 
2013-07-21 01:10:08 PM

fjnorton: Plant Rights Activist: hey guys, whats going on in this thread

We need to retry him now that he wrote "how I did it" book.


He's already in prison for another crime. It was just long-term karma.
 
2013-07-21 01:10:21 PM

Popcorn Johnny: LasersHurt: Guilty without proof, of course, like all "facts" brought up about Martin to slander him after death.

So you're denying the existence of the text messages that show Trayvon having a conversation about wanting to purchase a gun? Perhaps you should exit these threads for a while, study up on the "facts" and then give it another go. It gets really tiring having to educate people such as yourself that choose to be ignorant of what is and isn't known about this whole affair.


So stop. It doesn't matter if Martin smoked weed, said nasty things, wanted a gun, or was a Mexican drug cartel kingpin. All Zimmerman knew about him that night was that he was a stranger. That was enough for him to "investigate".
 
2013-07-21 01:11:07 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zimmerman wasn't tried on a civil rights violation, thus if the feds do so, it's not double jeopardy.
 
2013-07-21 01:11:57 PM
Is anyone else reminded of Egypt? 6 people looked at ALL the facts allowed by the judge, and decided George was not guilty...not innocent, but not guilty. Both of them idiots ARE guilty of pig-headedness. There was guilt on both sides, but the remaining party was within his rights. 6 honest and true citizens said so.
 
2013-07-21 01:13:08 PM
OPINION: If the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case were backwards (the opposite person was killed), Trayvon would already be on death row
 
2013-07-21 01:13:44 PM
Following up on my other post, the ACLU went through a similar identity crisis after the acquittal of the cops who beat Rodney King:

After the acquittal of the police officers involved in the Rodney King beating on April 29, 1992, the Southern California chapter of the A.C.L.U. urged the Justice Department to try the officers on federal civil rights charges. The A.C.L.U.'s strict policy opposing double jeopardy was suspended in June, 1992 to consider the impact of the policy on the officers' case. On April 4, 1993, in a close vote, the national board of the A.C.L.U. enacted a resolution opposing any exceptions to the American Constitution's prohibition against double jeopardy. However, all ten of the black members who were present voted to allow for second trials on civil rights grounds after acquittal on local charges. [link]
 
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