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(ACLU)   Dear Eric Holder; Your attempts at a federal case against George Zimmerman violates the double-jeopardy clause in the constitution and we will defend him if necessary. Sincerely - The ACLU   (aclu.org) divider line 557
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15973 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Jul 2013 at 12:34 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-21 09:53:23 AM
I know so many people who for Zimmerman with all of the right wing bat guano crazy they can muster. I also know some left Wing bat guano crazy people who hate Zimmerman and love the ACLU.

Hopefully, the ACLU position will cause the crazies heads to explode and we will be done with crazy.

/knows the ACLU takes positions from all sides of the political spectrum
/It was just a hopeless dream.
 
2013-07-21 10:05:06 AM
  We are writing to clearly state the ACLU's position on whether or not the Department of Justice (DOJ) should consider bringing federal civil rights or hate crimes charges as a result of the state court acquittal in the George Zimmerman case. Even though the Supreme Court permits a federal prosecution following a state prosecution, the ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction.


In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."
 
2013-07-21 10:15:08 AM
Gotta give it to the ACLU

They are principled people who put their personal opinions below what is right
 
2013-07-21 10:15:13 AM
I did not see in the letter where the ACLU said they would defend him.
 
2013-07-21 10:53:07 AM
Team Zim!
 
2013-07-21 11:17:33 AM
Well, DUH.  The whole story is tragic, but George was acquitted.  Let it go man, coz it's GONE.
 
2013-07-21 11:19:01 AM

Jeep2011: I know so many people who for Zimmerman with all of the right wing bat guano crazy they can muster. I also know some left Wing bat guano crazy people who hate Zimmerman and love the ACLU.

Hopefully, the ACLU position will cause the crazies heads to explode and we will be done with crazy.

/knows the ACLU takes positions from all sides of the political spectrum
/It was just a hopeless dream.


I wasn't a fan of the Federal case in the Rodney King incident either. Bringing someone up on different charges for the same offense seems to me to be at least a violation of the spirit of the double jeopardy clause, and even in the case of an injustice, I've been leery and untrusting of letting the government do that.
 
2013-07-21 11:19:40 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Team Zim!


If you want to come across as being a Twilight fan, that's your business.
 
2013-07-21 11:20:18 AM

cman: Gotta give it to the ACLU

They are principled people who put their personal opinions below what is right


Most of the time. Sometimes, they do pick and choose which rights they feel are worth defending.
 
2013-07-21 11:29:28 AM

RexTalionis: We are writing to clearly state the ACLU's position on whether or not the Department of Justice (DOJ) should consider bringing federal civil rights or hate crimes charges as a result of the state court acquittal in the George Zimmerman case. Even though the Supreme Court permits a federal prosecution following a state prosecution, the ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction.


In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."


The Supreme Court has proven many times over the course of their history that their interpretation of the Constitution isn't always right.
 
2013-07-21 11:32:28 AM
OJ Simpson
 
2013-07-21 11:33:09 AM

vygramul: Popcorn Johnny: Team Zim!

If you want to come across as being a Twilight fan, that's your business.


Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.
 
2013-07-21 11:34:07 AM
Holder and Obama are incompetent, race baiting morons. Stand your ground and race had not a farking thing to do with the Zim case and yet there they are on TV talking about both of them every chance they get.
 
2013-07-21 11:38:48 AM

vygramul: cman: Gotta give it to the ACLU

They are principled people who put their personal opinions below what is right

Most of the time. Sometimes, they do pick and choose which rights they feel are worth defending.


Well, of course. They have a certain view as to what "civil liberties" means. What would you expect, that they defend you no matter what your case is if you walk into their office and claim its a 'civil liberties case'?
 
2013-07-21 11:39:27 AM

Mentat: RexTalionis: We are writing to clearly state the ACLU's position on whether or not the Department of Justice (DOJ) should consider bringing federal civil rights or hate crimes charges as a result of the state court acquittal in the George Zimmerman case. Even though the Supreme Court permits a federal prosecution following a state prosecution, the ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction.


In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."

The Supreme Court has proven many times over the course of their history that their interpretation of the Constitution isn't always right.


Maybe. But, for now, that's the law.
 
2013-07-21 11:42:35 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Holder and Obama are incompetent, race baiting morons. Stand your ground and race had not a farking thing to do with the Zim case and yet there they are on TV talking about both of them every chance they get.


They aren't morons. While Obama was bearing his soul to the media, the government was getting the FISA court to rubber stamp renewal of domestic surveillance.
 
2013-07-21 12:02:52 PM

Nabb1: Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.


I never knew that Trayvon Martin was your patient for you to diagnose him with a psychiatric condition. Why didn't you speak up before this tragic incident? You're the real monster here.

Stop pretending there are any heroes in this situation.
 
2013-07-21 12:21:16 PM

DamnYankees: vygramul: cman: Gotta give it to the ACLU

They are principled people who put their personal opinions below what is right

Most of the time. Sometimes, they do pick and choose which rights they feel are worth defending.

Well, of course. They have a certain view as to what "civil liberties" means. What would you expect, that they defend you no matter what your case is if you walk into their office and claim its a 'civil liberties case'?


There's a difference between picking which case is relevant to a right, and which case affects a right at all.
 
2013-07-21 12:22:25 PM
Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.

better a 50 Shades of Grey fan than whatever the fark sort of hardon you have reminding everyone what a dangerous thug you think Martin was
 
2013-07-21 12:23:00 PM
was he still a hulking 6' 3" beast or what, I forget
 
2013-07-21 12:24:48 PM

Nabb1: vygramul: Popcorn Johnny: Team Zim!

If you want to come across as being a Twilight fan, that's your business.

Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.


I think it's more insane for people to champion either one of these award-winners since no one really knows what actually happened that night. Neither side is willing to accept even the HINT of a flaw. The Martin people don't think the suspicious jewelry reflects on his personality, and the Zimmerman people don't think assaulting a cop reflects on his personality. They're all insufficiently skeptical about the events of that night.
 
2013-07-21 12:33:00 PM

Jackson Herring: Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.

better a 50 Shades of Grey fan than whatever the fark sort of hardon you have reminding everyone what a dangerous thug you think Martin was


Oh, yeah, those cell phone pics and texts the prosecution suppressed for so long were clearly indicative of a peaceful, well-adjusted teenager.
 
2013-07-21 12:33:56 PM

vygramul: Nabb1: vygramul: Popcorn Johnny: Team Zim!

If you want to come across as being a Twilight fan, that's your business.

Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.

I think it's more insane for people to champion either one of these award-winners since no one really knows what actually happened that night. Neither side is willing to accept even the HINT of a flaw. The Martin people don't think the suspicious jewelry reflects on his personality, and the Zimmerman people don't think assaulting a cop reflects on his personality. They're all insufficiently skeptical about the events of that night.


Oh, I think Zimmerman is definitely flawed, just not a criminal.
 
2013-07-21 12:33:57 PM
pisces.bbystatic.com
cdn.media.discovermagazine.com
Just getting things prepared for you all.
 
2013-07-21 12:38:19 PM
People need to stop being butt hurt and realize the Jury has spoken. That is all.
 
2013-07-21 12:38:22 PM

vygramul: and the Zimmerman people don't think assaulting a cop reflects on his personality.


Zim was a a bar with friends and saw some dude grab one of his peeps. Turns out the guy was a plain clothes undercover cop. The fact that the charges were eventually dropped should be a huge red flag that this wasn't what some of Team Trayvon want to make it out to be. Do you really farking think they'd drop assault on an officer charges if they were valid?
 
2013-07-21 12:40:15 PM
... and older Mississippi members of the Klu Klux Klan nod in agreement and watch with interest.
 
2013-07-21 12:40:38 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Holder and Obama are incompetent, race baiting morons. Stand your ground and race had not a farking thing to do with the Zim case and yet there they are on TV talking about both of them every chance they get.


Stand your ground had nothing to do with it? You're dumb.
 
2013-07-21 12:40:45 PM

RexTalionis: Mentat: RexTalionis: We are writing to clearly state the ACLU's position on whether or not the Department of Justice (DOJ) should consider bringing federal civil rights or hate crimes charges as a result of the state court acquittal in the George Zimmerman case. Even though the Supreme Court permits a federal prosecution following a state prosecution, the ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction.


In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."

The Supreme Court has proven many times over the course of their history that their interpretation of the Constitution isn't always right.

Maybe. But, for now, that's the law.


And there's no better way to change the law then to do absolutely nothing.
 
2013-07-21 12:40:56 PM

vygramul: I wasn't a fan of the Federal case in the Rodney King incident either. Bringing someone up on different charges for the same offense seems to me to be at least a violation of the spirit of the double jeopardy clause, and even in the case of an injustice, I've been leery and untrusting of letting the government do that.


I feel the exact same way about leveling multiple charges hoping one sticks...
I.E. charging someone with murder 2, murder 3, and manslaughter.
 
2013-07-21 12:40:59 PM
As for the Civil Rights violations suit, they couldn't prove Zimmerman killed Trayvon out of hate.  How are they going to prove he did it specifically because of his race? That would be a complete waste of tax payer money.
 
2013-07-21 12:41:06 PM

RexTalionis: We are writing to clearly state the ACLU's position on whether or not the Department of Justice (DOJ) should consider bringing federal civil rights or hate crimes charges as a result of the state court acquittal in the George Zimmerman case. Even though the Supreme Court permits a federal prosecution following a state prosecution, the ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction.


In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."


The Supreme Court can't agree among themselves what the Constitution means. How else do you explain all the 5-4 decisions? If you go to your auto dealer and 3 mechanics tell you it's the water pump, and 2 mechanics tell you it's the thermostat, are you going to trust them?
 
2013-07-21 12:41:40 PM
But ah cain't say no prayers in skool!

blog.jonolan.net
 
2013-07-21 12:42:17 PM

Nabb1: Jackson Herring: Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.

better a 50 Shades of Grey fan than whatever the fark sort of hardon you have reminding everyone what a dangerous thug you think Martin was

Oh, yeah, those cell phone pics and texts the prosecution suppressed for so long were clearly indicative of a peaceful, well-adjusted teenager.


If I had a cell phone at that age you'd probably say the same thing.

/and be just as wrong
 
2013-07-21 12:42:31 PM
Well it would probably be appropriate to accuse the ACLU of racism at this point.
 
2013-07-21 12:42:34 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Stand your ground had nothing to do with it? You're dumb.


Oh boy, here we go. Please enlighten us as to what stand your ground had to do with the case.
 
2013-07-21 12:42:47 PM
As much as I would like to see him OJ'ed in a civil court or other proceedings, he was found not guilty we need to stop kicking the dead horse.
 
2013-07-21 12:43:40 PM

Nabb1: vygramul: Popcorn Johnny: Team Zim!

If you want to come across as being a Twilight fan, that's your business.

Better a "Twilight" fan than a delusional fan that treats a dead sociopath like a teen heart throb.


You're going to have to narrow that down.
 
2013-07-21 12:44:34 PM
There was almost no chance whatsoever that Zimmerman was going to be convicted of homicide or even manslaughter in a fair trial. There just wasn't evidence available to prove it, and the prosecution, unsurprisingly, was terrible. They should have gone after something like reckless endangerment, put him away for a couple of years, and pulled his gun license.

I don't doubt that race was an issue in the altercation -- although absolutely it was an issue in the media and in the trial. I think Zimmerman is an ass, a danger to himself and others, and that he could just as easily and just as likely shot and killed a white kid. If Zimmerman was 'protecting' my neighborhood, you bet I'd be rooting against him.
 
2013-07-21 12:45:10 PM

See You Next Tuesday: Name one well-adjusted teenager. Go on.


What % of teens are perusing the illegal purchase of a firearm?
 
182
2013-07-21 12:47:39 PM

alaric3: OJ Simpson


yeah, homeboy got hemmed up by the system....why not Zim.
 
2013-07-21 12:48:01 PM

vygramul: There's a difference between picking which case is relevant to a right, and which case affects a right at all.


... No, I do not think there is much difference there. If a case is relevant to a right, the case affects a right. Unless you mean a case is relevant to interpretation of a right and a case affects a right of an individual but would have no influence on case law since interpretation of the right is well established in the courts. In this latter instance, I would agree the ACLU does this, but I would say the ACLU does this to better utilize resources. As far as I know, though, the ACLU only chooses not to engage in Second Amendment cases because of the stance the Second Amendment is an individual rather than civil liberty and the fact organizations such as the NRA exist for this sole purpose.
 
2013-07-21 12:48:28 PM
Popcorn Johnny: What % of teens are perusing the illegal purchase of a firearm?

If I understand your use of "perusing", I'd say probably somewhere near 50%, at some point during their teen years. That was probably about right back when I was a teen, too.
 
2013-07-21 12:49:35 PM
You should only have to face criminal or civil charges, not both.  I know that that is not how it is in this country, but that is the way that it should be. It is bullschitt that a criminal court can find you not guilty but then a civil court can find you guilty of the same crime.  How in all of Hades is that not double jeopardy?
 
2013-07-21 12:49:49 PM
Won't somebody just hurry up and shoot the idiot? It is their 2nd Amendment right after all.
 
2013-07-21 12:50:18 PM

RexTalionis: We are writing to clearly state the ACLU's position on whether or not the Department of Justice (DOJ) should consider bringing federal civil rights or hate crimes charges as a result of the state court acquittal in the George Zimmerman case. Even though the Supreme Court permits a federal prosecution following a state prosecution, the ACLU believes the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution protects someone from being prosecuted in another court for charges arising from the same transaction.


In other words: "Even though the Supreme Court said we're wrong, we're choosing to believe in our interpretation of the Constitution."


At the time of Brown v. Board of Education, the matter of school segregation was settled Constitutional law in opposition to Brown. ACLU filed anyway. They won.

There's also an originalist argument that the current double jeopardy interpretation is contrary to original intent.
 
2013-07-21 12:50:46 PM

Popcorn Johnny: See You Next Tuesday: Name one well-adjusted teenager. Go on.

What % of teens are perusing the illegal purchase of a firearm?


Guilty without proof, of course, like all "facts" brought up about Martin to slander him after death.
 
2013-07-21 12:51:13 PM
Would have been better if it was a letter from the NAACP.
 
2013-07-21 12:51:25 PM

macadamnut: Won't somebody just hurry up and shoot the idiot? It is their 2nd Amendment right after all.


They should just wait it out like with OJ and see if he goes to jail for another crime.
 
2013-07-21 12:51:45 PM

RandomAxe: If I understand your use of "perusing", I'd say probably somewhere near 50%, at some point during their teen years.


LOL yeah, okay.
 
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