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(Washington Post)   Remember how Obamacare made insurance rates in Indiana rise 72%? Turns out that's just more of that conservative unskewed math   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 68
    More: Followup, obamacare, health insurance  
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3268 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Jul 2013 at 12:41 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-21 09:08:17 AM
Ah, I see. A new Porsche dealership opened in town, and the average price of cars is now $10,000 more than it was before.
 
2013-07-21 10:28:14 AM
Well, duh
 
2013-07-21 10:57:32 AM
Stunning.
 
2013-07-21 12:32:20 PM

vygramul: Ah, I see. A new Porsche dealership opened in town, and the average price of cars is now $10,000 more than it was before.


You did a great job at explaining the issue in one sentance, THREE big fat shiny internets to you, sir!
 
2013-07-21 12:41:38 PM
i41.tinypic.com
 
2013-07-21 12:47:30 PM
As a loyal "Real American" Republican, it doesn't bother me when they lie to me outright.  It doesn't bother me that they've admitted in public that their strategy is to keep the base motivated with fear.  It doesn't matter to me that they don't produce any legislation other than that geared towards corporations and restricting women's rights.  It doesn't bother me that they run idiot candidates like Palin, Romney, and Ryan.  I doesn't bother me that their policy of obstructionism in Congress has hindered recovery efforts and done nothing but hurt this country.

Because the alternative is voting for a Democrat, and my gut tells me that that, without hyperbole, would be ten million billion times worse.
 
2013-07-21 12:47:57 PM
Math is a liberal conspiracy.
 
2013-07-21 12:47:59 PM
images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-07-21 12:50:14 PM
I thought they went up a brazilian.
 
2013-07-21 12:51:41 PM
TFA has too many words.

Point to the Republicans...
 
2013-07-21 12:52:24 PM
We knew that when this story was Fwd:Fwd:Fwd:Fwd:Fwd:Fwd:Fwd:Fwd the first time.
 
2013-07-21 12:53:07 PM
There's nothing more informative than listening to true believers argue. One side is going to turn out to be the Jenny McCarthy of the debate, and who that is will be determined by what's coming out of our pockets when the ACA hits in full. I think it's telling that Obama plans to put that day off until after the 2014 elections.
 
2013-07-21 12:55:35 PM

vygramul: Ah, I see. A new Porsche dealership opened in town, and the average price of cars is now $10,000 more than it was before.


This.

Also, if Obamacare is really as bad as Republicans insist it is, then why do they constantly lie about it to make it look even worse? Isn't the truth bad enough to scare people?
 
2013-07-21 12:55:37 PM
 
2013-07-21 12:55:47 PM
Why bother debunking stuff like this?  The facts about Obamacare are pretty much completely irrelevant to the discussion of Obamacare.
 
2013-07-21 12:56:19 PM
The ACA is a shiatshow, and I'm saying this as a general supporter of Obama. This is the result of half-assed legislation and compromises, and now even Obama is reailzing its implementation is going to be harder than he anticipated, which makes him look like a moron.

/give me single payer or give me death
 
2013-07-21 12:57:47 PM
I am surprised.
 
2013-07-21 01:03:40 PM

Karma Chameleon: The ACA is a shiatshow, and I'm saying this as a general supporter of Obama. This is the result of half-assed legislation and compromises, and now even Obama is reailzing its implementation is going to be harder than he anticipated, which makes him look like a moron.

/give me single payer or give me death


Let me get this straight...you would rather die than have your choice of insurances from the free market?
 
2013-07-21 01:05:06 PM

epoch_destroi: Karma Chameleon: The ACA is a shiatshow, and I'm saying this as a general supporter of Obama. This is the result of half-assed legislation and compromises, and now even Obama is reailzing its implementation is going to be harder than he anticipated, which makes him look like a moron.

/give me single payer or give me death

Let me get this straight...you would rather die than have your choice of insurances from the free market?


Correct.
 
2013-07-21 01:06:17 PM

Karma Chameleon: The ACA is a shiatshow, and I'm saying this as a general supporter of Obama. This is the result of half-assed legislation and compromises, and now even Obama is reailzing its implementation is going to be harder than he anticipated, which makes him look like a moron.

/give me single payer or give me death


People expected the implementation of Medicare to be an abysmal failure. People expected the implementation of Medicaid to be a failure. People expected the implementation of Part D to be a failure. None of them turned out to be nearly so awful. They all had kinks, sure, but nobody came away angry and calling for a complete repeal.
 
2013-07-21 01:06:24 PM

Karma Chameleon: epoch_destroi: Karma Chameleon: The ACA is a shiatshow, and I'm saying this as a general supporter of Obama. This is the result of half-assed legislation and compromises, and now even Obama is reailzing its implementation is going to be harder than he anticipated, which makes him look like a moron.

/give me single payer or give me death

Let me get this straight...you would rather die than have your choice of insurances from the free market?

Correct.


Uh, well... I applaud your convictions.
 
2013-07-21 01:12:01 PM
I'm shocked.  I would assume the people that determined the Earth is 6000 years old would be excellent at math
 
2013-07-21 01:13:41 PM
i936.photobucket.com
SURPRISE!
 
2013-07-21 01:15:10 PM

jjorsett: There's nothing more informative than listening to true believers argue. One side is going to turn out to be the Jenny McCarthy of the debate, and who that is will be determined by what's coming out of our pockets when the ACA hits in full. I think it's telling that Obama plans to put that day off until after the 2014 elections.


You think it's telling that Obama listened to businesses asking to delay one part for a year? Telling of your ignorance maybe
 
2013-07-21 01:15:48 PM

gameshowhost: [i41.tinypic.com image 466x300]


LOL. Photoshop humor.
 
2013-07-21 01:16:16 PM

Karma Chameleon: The ACA is a shiatshow, and I'm saying this as a general supporter of Obama. This is the result of half-assed legislation and compromises, and now even Obama is reailzing its implementation is going to be harder than he anticipated, which makes him look like a moron.


The compromises were unavoidable.  This was about as far left as that Senate could have passed; anything more would have been the same as doing nothing.

/give me single payer or give me death

While that's fine for you - you can always hold off and remain uninsured until single payer comes, if ever - there are millions of other people who wouldn't choose death over private health insurance.  You can certainly choose death for yourself, but you don't get to choose death for them.
 
2013-07-21 01:18:43 PM

epoch_destroi: Let me get this straight...you would rather die than have your choice of insurances from the free market?


Profiting off of the life or death of sick people is inherently immoral. The "free market" in health insurance is nothing more than executives going to play golf after denying life-saving coverage to people who have paid their premiums and are therefore legally entitled to their contractually-obligated benefits.
 
2013-07-21 01:20:51 PM

Karma Chameleon: epoch_destroi: Karma Chameleon: The ACA is a shiatshow, and I'm saying this as a general supporter of Obama. This is the result of half-assed legislation and compromises, and now even Obama is reailzing its implementation is going to be harder than he anticipated, which makes him look like a moron.

/give me single payer or give me death

Let me get this straight...you would rather die than have your choice of insurances from the free market?

Correct.


Ladies and Gentlemen, natural selection at work.
 
2013-07-21 01:22:48 PM

Sum Dum Gai: The compromises were unavoidable.  This was about as far left as that Senate could have passed; anything more would have been the same as doing nothing.


I blame the damn Democrats for the messier parts of Obamacare, not the Republicans. The blue dogs were who got single-payer taken off the table before bipartisan "negotiations" could even begin.
 
2013-07-21 01:23:52 PM

gameshowhost: [i41.tinypic.com image 466x300]


He's in the Phantom Zone!
 
2013-07-21 01:26:49 PM

that bosnian sniper: Sum Dum Gai: The compromises were unavoidable.  This was about as far left as that Senate could have passed; anything more would have been the same as doing nothing.

I blame the damn Democrats for the messier parts of Obamacare, not the Republicans. The blue dogs were who got single-payer taken off the table before bipartisan "negotiations" could even begin.


Single-payer was never on the table. The public option was.
 
2013-07-21 01:35:43 PM

that bosnian sniper: Sum Dum Gai: The compromises were unavoidable.  This was about as far left as that Senate could have passed; anything more would have been the same as doing nothing.

I blame the damn Democrats for the messier parts of Obamacare, not the Republicans. The blue dogs were who got single-payer taken off the table before bipartisan "negotiations" could even begin.


Could they have EVER gotten single payer passed in both houses?
That is the unknown answer.
 
2013-07-21 01:35:57 PM

epoch_destroi: free market?


Health care, especially of the catastrophic variety, is one of the least free markets out there.  When the consequence is death, you have lost your choice to abstain.  When there's only one medicine under patent that will keep you alive, when there's only one hospital close enough to give you emergency care  before you die, you have lost your choice to switch brands.  Unless you want to die of course.
 
2013-07-21 01:38:51 PM
FTA:
"We don't know whether a bronze plan in Indiana will be incredibly expensive, which is certainly a possibility"

So the summary is, the author of the article doesn't know, took some guesses and concluded that the numbers given last week about the 72% were wrong.
 
2013-07-21 01:42:19 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA:
"We don't know whether a bronze plan in Indiana will be incredibly expensive, which is certainly a possibility"

So the summary is, the author of the article doesn't know, took some guesses and concluded that the numbers given last week about the 72% were wrong.


Turns out nobody knows any exact numbers. Shocking!
 
2013-07-21 01:47:13 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: So the summary is, the author of the article doesn't know, took some guesses and concluded that the numbers given last week about the 72% were wrong.


It's absolutely certain the prior numbers were wrong, because they assumed that every health plan of every level was going to get an equal number of subscribers.  That's clearly wrong.

What they can't do without access to the original data is calculate how wrong it is, but the original number is meaningless.
 
2013-07-21 01:50:03 PM

Karma Chameleon: The ACA is a shiatshow, and I'm saying this as a general supporter of Obama. This is the result of half-assed legislation and compromises, and now even Obama is reailzing its implementation is going to be harder than he anticipated, which makes him look like a moron.

/give me single payer or give me death


THIS!

With all the money that we could save by switching to a system like the NHS in Britain or France's system, I have no idea why we fool around with Obamacare.
 
2013-07-21 01:52:03 PM

12349876: epoch_destroi: free market?

Health care, especially of the catastrophic variety, is one of the least free markets out there.  When the consequence is death, you have lost your choice to abstain.  When there's only one medicine under patent that will keep you alive, when there's only one hospital close enough to give you emergency care  before you die, you have lost your choice to switch brands.  Unless you want to die of course.


Those who fetishize the market are generally those who least understand it.
 
2013-07-21 01:55:53 PM

Phil McKraken: Karma Chameleon: The ACA is a shiatshow, and I'm saying this as a general supporter of Obama. This is the result of half-assed legislation and compromises, and now even Obama is reailzing its implementation is going to be harder than he anticipated, which makes him look like a moron.

/give me single payer or give me death

THIS!

With all the money that we could save by switching to a system like the NHS in Britain or France's system, I have no idea why we fool around with Obamacare.


Because the current system makes lots of people very rich, and those very rich people are good at maintaining the status quo.

SOMETHING had to be changed.  Obamacare's a change.  It'll make insurers behave better and get more people coverage.  These are good things.
 
2013-07-21 02:01:23 PM
th05.deviantart.net

I AM SHOCKED! SHOCKED I SAY!
 
2013-07-21 02:03:19 PM

Karma Chameleon: The ACA is a shiatshow, and I'm saying this as a general supporter of Obama. This is the result of half-assed legislation and compromises, and now even Obama is reailzing its implementation is going to be harder than he anticipated, which makes him look like a moron.

/give me single payer or give me death


Except that he's not admitting anything of the kind.   ACA is a large complex piece of legislation that the GOP has been actively working to interfere with.  No one sensible expected it to start up without a hitch.

I assume you're talking about the mandate delay, the one that is actual a delay in reporting requirements that effects about 4% of businesses nationwide.
 
2013-07-21 02:06:28 PM

Phil McKraken: With all the money that we could save by switching to a system like the NHS in Britain or France's system, I have no idea why we fool around with Obamacare.


Single payer, by itself, wouldn't solve any of that.  Insurance overheads and the cost of doing business with multiple insurers don't make that much of a difference.

The major difference between the UK and France and the US is not who picks up the bill, it's HOW the reimbursement happens.  In the UK, hospital systems are paid on the number of patients they cover.  France is closer to the US system, except that, like Japan, every fee for every service is set centrally by negotiations between the government and a physician advocate agency.  The US is a fee-for-service payment model with no central cost controls.  That is (especially in outpatient care), in the US, the more things you do (more labs, more procedures, etc.) the more you get paid.
 The ACA provides legislation to help establish Accountable Care Organizations (ACOs), which is a shared-savings model where some of the cost savings goes to Medicare and some goes back to the organization, essentially paying them for the value (looking at outcomes and costs) rather than the volume of service they do.  You get money for keeping your patients healthier, not for doing more things to sick patients.
 
2013-07-21 02:13:35 PM

theorellior: epoch_destroi: Let me get this straight...you would rather die than have your choice of insurances from the free market?

Profiting off of the life or death of sick people is inherently immoral.


You find doctors to be immoral?  You must love "journalists" and politicians.
 
2013-07-21 02:16:52 PM

SunsetLament: theorellior: epoch_destroi: Let me get this straight...you would rather die than have your choice of insurances from the free market?

Profiting off of the life or death of sick people is inherently immoral.

You find doctors to be immoral?  You must love "journalists" and politicians.


Doctors don't profit when their sick patients die, numbnuts.  Insurance companies do.
 
2013-07-21 02:17:42 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Single-payer was never on the table. The public option was.


Single-payer  was on the table for a very,  very short time early in 2009, but if I recall it was just a starting bargaining position for inter-party negotiations to try to get the blue dogs to compromise on the public option.
 
2013-07-21 02:25:32 PM
Everybody knows math is just a liberal conspiracy to justify raising taxes.

/study it out
 
2013-07-21 02:26:10 PM
I know the cost of my health care has remained the same for the last four years, and there is talk that it is going to go DOWN next year.  The three years previous to that it went up double digits every year.

/in California.
 
2013-07-21 02:30:46 PM

that bosnian sniper: cameroncrazy1984: Single-payer was never on the table. The public option was.

Single-payer  was on the table for a very,  very short time early in 2009, but if I recall it was just a starting bargaining position for inter-party negotiations to try to get the blue dogs to compromise on the public option.


And it was not even the blue-dogs that killed the public option, it was Joe Lieberman.  Without his vote, there would have been no health care reform bill passed at all.

How is it possible to forget this shiat already?  Good lord.
 
2013-07-21 02:36:57 PM

Karma Chameleon: epoch_destroi: Karma Chameleon: The ACA is a shiatshow, and I'm saying this as a general supporter of Obama. This is the result of half-assed legislation and compromises, and now even Obama is reailzing its implementation is going to be harder than he anticipated, which makes him look like a moron.

/give me single payer or give me death

Let me get this straight...you would rather die than have your choice of insurances from the free market?

Correct.


And clearly your quest for political purity should take precedence over all those annoying people who desperately need insurance.  You and those like you are why people have such a strong dislike for US liberals.
 
2013-07-21 02:37:55 PM

Tor_Eckman: And it was not even the blue-dogs that killed the public option, it was Joe Lieberman.  Without his vote, there would have been no health care reform bill passed at all.

How is it possible to forget this shiat already?  Good lord.


And why did liberman turn into such a tool? Did he get primaried?
 
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