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(Rare.us)   Worried about the NSA snooping on you? Fear not, it's pretty tame compared to the database created by Obamacare   (rare.us) divider line 156
    More: Scary, obamacare, NSA, personnel management, Office of Personnel Management, navigators, databases, sweetheart deal, health information  
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1519 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Jul 2013 at 9:31 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



156 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-21 07:05:02 AM  
ITS A CONSPIRACY!
 
2013-07-21 07:30:24 AM  
The massive, centralized database will include comprehensive personal information such as income and financial data, family size, citizenship and immigration status, incarceration status, social security numbers, and private health information. It will compile dossiers based on information obtained from the IRS, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Defense, the Veterans Administration, the Office of Personnel Management, the Social Security Administration, state Medicaid databases, and for some reason the Peace Corps.

So the government intends to centralize data it already has? This is an outrage.
 
2013-07-21 08:17:41 AM  

kronicfeld: The massive, centralized database will include comprehensive personal information such as income and financial data, family size, citizenship and immigration status, incarceration status, social security numbers, and private health information. It will compile dossiers based on information obtained from the IRS, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Defense, the Veterans Administration, the Office of Personnel Management, the Social Security Administration, state Medicaid databases, and for some reason the Peace Corps.

So the government intends to centralize data it already has? This is an outrage.


Okay, but if it's centralized, why would someone in one, say, the IRS, need access to data compiled and used by DHS. And vice versa?  Every personal, private detail about your health, finances and anything else could potentially be looked at by anyone at any of these agencies. Is that something we really want or need?
 
2013-07-21 08:22:16 AM  
Nabb1:  Is that something we really want or need?

It's for the good of The Stat...I mean Society.
 
2013-07-21 08:23:12 AM  

Nabb1: Okay, but if it's centralized, why would someone in one, say, the IRS, need access to data compiled and used by DHS. And vice versa? Every personal, private detail about your health, finances and anything else could potentially be looked at by anyone at any of these agencies. Is that something we really want or need?


Having bulkanized data is kind of a problem in healthcare, isn't it? Suppose one doctor has it in their database that you are at particular risk for X disease and then you change doctors and the medical records don't transfer with you - well, now you you are in a far worse state than you were before.
 
2013-07-21 08:25:09 AM  

RexTalionis: Nabb1: Okay, but if it's centralized, why would someone in one, say, the IRS, need access to data compiled and used by DHS. And vice versa? Every personal, private detail about your health, finances and anything else could potentially be looked at by anyone at any of these agencies. Is that something we really want or need?

Having bulkanized data is kind of a problem in healthcare, isn't it? Suppose one doctor has it in their database that you are at particular risk for X disease and then you change doctors and the medical records don't transfer with you - well, now you you are in a far worse state than you were before.

 
2013-07-21 08:26:39 AM  
Oops. We're not just talking about medical records are we?
 
2013-07-21 08:31:29 AM  
That's nothing. I hear the government already has a database of every American citizen... and assigns each of them a NUMBER. They're taking away our identities!
 
2013-07-21 08:35:41 AM  
Would you trust thousands of low-level Federal bureaucrats and contractors with one-touch access to your private financial and medical information?

Yeah, we already do, except they're tens of thousands of low-level private sector data entry drones with shiattier benefits and pay than federal bureaucrats working for different competing organizations all guided by profit.

Nabb1: Okay, but if it's centralized, why would someone in one, say, the IRS, need access to data compiled and used by DHS. And vice versa?  Every personal, private detail about your health, finances and anything else could potentially be looked at by anyone at any of these agencies. Is that something we really want or need?


Assuming HIPAA is still in effect, which it is, the health information is still considered protected. And the paragraph you quoted seemed to indicate that the information comes FROM those organizations, not that it makes it all freely available to them. This is still the database used for the ACA, and not some amorphous universal government citizen registry. There's still plenty of room for bickering, pissing matches, and (most importantly) cursory requirements for authorization between agencies.
 
2013-07-21 08:48:59 AM  

Nabb1: Oops. We're not just talking about medical records are we?


From the report itself:

The data hub is intended to provide data needed by the exchanges' enrollment eligibility systems to determine each applicant's eligibility. Specifically, the data hub will provide one electronic connection and near real-time access to the common federal data, as well as provide access to state and third party data sources needed to verify consumer application information. For example, the data hub is to verify an applicant's Social Security number with the Social Security Administration (SSA), and to access the data from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) that are needed to assess the applicant's income, citizenship, and immigration status.
 http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/655291.pdf (page 7)


I see nothing objectionable about this. In order for an exchange provider to accurately judge eligibility, they would at least need to know something about a prospective enrollee's income, citizenship status and immigration status. Otherwise, we'll have a problem of fraud and abuse (come to think of it - fraud and abuse that we have today) that would be rampant because we have balkanized databases where immigration or income level data are simply not talking to each other.

And, somehow, I find it unlikely that the IRS data or the DHS data would be anything more than the data returned by an E-verify check. I somehow doubt that a health exchange provider would access (or want to access) all of your back tax filings and whatnot, or access (or want to access) all of the entry data into the US.

I see this as no real different from E-verify, where employment eligibility (and immigration status) is checked by employers on prospective employees. The data that is returned by those systems are very limited and basically only tells the employer whether there is an all-clear on employing that person or whether there's a problem with their immigration status. If you see nothing objectionable about E-verify, I don't see why you would find this system objectionable as well.
 
2013-07-21 08:55:16 AM  
Frankly, the site tells you its bias right on its header graphic: "Red is the center." I don't see why you would trust anything they say about something like the ACA on their word alone and not confirmed with an independent investigation. They are interested only in twisting or manipulating things in the light that best fit their view.

/Incidentally, Politico did a story about 2 weeks ago about why the Rare site sucked so badly and couldn't find traction among conservative readers. I guess they've decided to ramp it up and make sensationalistic headlines and submit it to Fark in a bid to drive readership up.
 
2013-07-21 09:05:36 AM  
Obamacare dropped a deuce in my toilet and didn't flush
 
2013-07-21 09:13:29 AM  
I don't want this to be taken as a dismissal of the article or anything else, since I haven't read it yet, but this website should really consider revisiting its font choices.
 
2013-07-21 09:15:04 AM  
ZOMG the gubbmit knows my Social Security number
 
2013-07-21 09:18:49 AM  
Your blog sucks.
 
2013-07-21 09:24:32 AM  

Bloody William: Yeah, we already do, except they're tens of thousands of low-level private sector data entry drones with shiattier benefits and pay than federal bureaucrats working for different competing organizations all guided by profit.


ok but I am still palpably concerned
 
2013-07-21 09:30:55 AM  

Jackson Herring: Bloody William: Yeah, we already do, except they're tens of thousands of low-level private sector data entry drones with shiattier benefits and pay than federal bureaucrats working for different competing organizations all guided by profit.

ok but I am still palpably concerned


So, which one of these drones has access to my federal income tax returns AND my medical records?
 
2013-07-21 09:35:05 AM  

Nabb1: Jackson Herring: Bloody William: Yeah, we already do, except they're tens of thousands of low-level private sector data entry drones with shiattier benefits and pay than federal bureaucrats working for different competing organizations all guided by profit.

ok but I am still palpably concerned

So, which one of these drones has access to my federal income tax returns AND my medical records?


Again, how does HIPAA keep the medical aspects segregated? Because... that's kind of part of the law. Which still means both your medical records and financial information is freely rummaged about internally by your choice of insurance company.
 
2013-07-21 09:35:18 AM  
From the RARE.us' 'about us' page:

'Built by conservatives for conservatives  '

In other words, everything on that site is utterly worthless retarded bullshiat. Just like everything else that comes out of the American right-wingers.
 
2013-07-21 09:37:57 AM  

Bloody William: Nabb1: Jackson Herring: Bloody William: Yeah, we already do, except they're tens of thousands of low-level private sector data entry drones with shiattier benefits and pay than federal bureaucrats working for different competing organizations all guided by profit.

ok but I am still palpably concerned

So, which one of these drones has access to my federal income tax returns AND my medical records?

Again, how does HIPAA keep the medical aspects segregated? Because... that's kind of part of the law. Which still means both your medical records and financial information is freely rummaged about internally by your choice of insurance company.


My health insurer has access to my income tax records?
 
2013-07-21 09:38:27 AM  
Plus, even if you snort coke off a picture of St Ronnie, Sexy Palin, Randy Paul off your local Tea Party bureaucrats coffee table -- the Feds will know about it from the secret blood tests they'll do.
 
2013-07-21 09:39:07 AM  
i1.ytimg.com
 
2013-07-21 09:39:17 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: Obamacare dropped a deuce in my toilet and didn't flush


iat wouldn't have mattered; Obamacare drops nothing but upper deckers.

cubic_spleen: From the RARE.us' 'about us' page:

'Built by conservatives for conservatives  '

In other words, everything on that site is utterly worthless retarded bullshiat. Just like everything else that comes out of the American right-wingers.


Actual facts have a liberal bias.
 
2013-07-21 09:40:28 AM  

cman: ITS A CONSPIRACY!


I suspect it goes all the way up to the President...
 
2013-07-21 09:40:43 AM  

cubic_spleen: From the RARE.us' 'about us' page:

'Built by conservatives for conservatives  '

In other words, everything on that site is utterly worthless retarded bullshiat. Just like everything else that comes out of the American right-wingers.


Having a headline warning about 'Obamacare' is a red flag from the start.
 
2013-07-21 09:41:44 AM  
The first thing I want to know when someone is concerned about the government knowing their medical records is what is in your medical records?
 
2013-07-21 09:43:29 AM  

Nabb1: Bloody William: Nabb1: Jackson Herring: Bloody William: Yeah, we already do, except they're tens of thousands of low-level private sector data entry drones with shiattier benefits and pay than federal bureaucrats working for different competing organizations all guided by profit.

ok but I am still palpably concerned

So, which one of these drones has access to my federal income tax returns AND my medical records?

Again, how does HIPAA keep the medical aspects segregated? Because... that's kind of part of the law. Which still means both your medical records and financial information is freely rummaged about internally by your choice of insurance company.

My health insurer has access to my income tax records?


How does that make a difference? Your health insurer has access to your most important financial information and all of your medical information. Why is this okay with you but tax records and the government finally make it bad? What makes low-paid worker drones in a for-profit company having free access to your information better than low-paid-but-government-benefits worker drones in a government bureaucracy having that information? (And again, with HIPAA, how much of that medical information is available to the latter?)
 
2013-07-21 09:43:33 AM  

spongeboob: The first thing I want to know when someone is concerned about the government knowing their medical records is what is in your medical records?


'You signed your organ donor card; we're here to collect your organs.'
 
2013-07-21 09:44:34 AM  
Question: is any of this data anything the government doesn't already have access to? No? Then what's the problem here?
 
2013-07-21 09:45:57 AM  
Bloody William:
How does that make a difference? Your health insurer has access to your most important financial information...

No, they don't. You are misinformed.
 
2013-07-21 09:45:57 AM  

Alphax: You signed your organ donor card; we're here to collect your organs.'


You call that an organ? My gerbil has a larger organ.
 
2013-07-21 09:46:32 AM  
p.twimg.com
 
2013-07-21 09:49:00 AM  

Nabb1: kronicfeld: The massive, centralized database will include comprehensive personal information such as income and financial data, family size, citizenship and immigration status, incarceration status, social security numbers, and private health information. It will compile dossiers based on information obtained from the IRS, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Defense, the Veterans Administration, the Office of Personnel Management, the Social Security Administration, state Medicaid databases, and for some reason the Peace Corps.

So the government intends to centralize data it already has? This is an outrage.

Okay, but if it's centralized, why would someone in one, say, the IRS, need access to data compiled and used by DHS. And vice versa?  Every personal, private detail about your health, finances and anything else could potentially be looked at by anyone at any of these agencies. Is that something we really want or need?


At this point, does it really matter? Google and facebook already have that info, anyway
 
2013-07-21 09:49:51 AM  

Nabb1: Bloody William:
How does that make a difference? Your health insurer has access to your most important financial information...

No, they don't. You are misinformed.


Okay, what do they have access to, and again, why are the tax records suddenly such a big breaking point?

Your medical information and at the VERY least your income and other vital details are already shuffled around private servers handled by faceless worker drones with the objective of maximizing profit for your insurance company. How is the new system any more objectionable?
 
2013-07-21 09:50:18 AM  

Alphax: spongeboob: The first thing I want to know when someone is concerned about the government knowing their medical records is what is in your medical records?

'You signed your organ donor card; we're here to collect your organs.'


Isn't that on your DMV records
 
2013-07-21 09:50:40 AM  

Nabb1: Jackson Herring: Bloody William: Yeah, we already do, except they're tens of thousands of low-level private sector data entry drones with shiattier benefits and pay than federal bureaucrats working for different competing organizations all guided by profit.

ok but I am still palpably concerned

So, which one of these drones has access to my federal income tax returns AND my medical records?


It depends on  your political ideology and which party is in power at the time.  It would certainly be inconvenient for  opposition political leaders if somehow, someway, information was leaked about  his or her embarrassing medical history like prescription medication, STD treatment, birth control, or an abortion-also that of family members.  All this while they can also rake through the financial data at the same time-very convenient for them.

Not that an agency of the US government would ever be used  to target the political opposition or even  journalists. who might not be friendlyto those in power.
 
2013-07-21 09:53:18 AM  

Nabb1: Oops. We're not just talking about medical records are we?


well, considering that the far right went apeshiat about the idea of illegal furriners getting healthcare, i would guess that explains the immigration status thing. might as well throw in criminal record, etc. and since the govt. assistance portion is contingent upon income, that makes sense too.
 
2013-07-21 09:53:30 AM  

kronicfeld: The massive, centralized database will include comprehensive personal information such as income and financial data, family size, citizenship and immigration status, incarceration status, social security numbers, and private health information. It will compile dossiers based on information obtained from the IRS, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Defense, the Veterans Administration, the Office of Personnel Management, the Social Security Administration, state Medicaid databases, and for some reason the Peace Corps.

So the government intends to centralize data it already has? This is an outrage.


Yeah, if you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide!!!!!1111!
 
2013-07-21 09:53:38 AM  

Bloody William: Nabb1: Bloody William:
How does that make a difference? Your health insurer has access to your most important financial information...

No, they don't. You are misinformed.

Okay, what do they have access to, and again, why are the tax records suddenly such a big breaking point?

Your medical information and at the VERY least your income and other vital details are already shuffled around private servers handled by faceless worker drones with the objective of maximizing profit for your insurance company. How is the new system any more objectionable?


No, insurers do not have access to my financial records. Nor is my medical information in the hands of anyone who does not have a specific legal right to it, or who has a valid HIPAA release, and those a provider specific and good only for a limited time by the provisions of HIPAA itself. You need to cite your work and show me where you got this, because if my health insurer has my financial records without my consent, there's a big fat lawsuit headed their way, and if it's widespread, I'm going to make it a class action and retire when the dust settles.
 
2013-07-21 09:55:22 AM  

RexTalionis: Nabb1: Okay, but if it's centralized, why would someone in one, say, the IRS, need access to data compiled and used by DHS. And vice versa? Every personal, private detail about your health, finances and anything else could potentially be looked at by anyone at any of these agencies. Is that something we really want or need?

Having bulkanized data is kind of a problem in healthcare, isn't it? Suppose one doctor has it in their database that you are at particular risk for X disease and then you change doctors and the medical records don't transfer with you - well, now you you are in a far worse state than you were before.


Bulkanized?

Hey, I think you are really smart.  You should probably be our next Sturgeon General.
 
2013-07-21 10:00:03 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Question: is any of this data anything the government doesn't already have access to? No? Then what's the problem here?




Maybe the problem is that they do already have access to al this information, without benefit of a warrant, and the centralization of it all illustrates it.
The IRS already has access to much of your financial information without needing a warrant to get it-banks and employers are required to give it to them. Why should an income tax law suspend the 4th Amendment?

I have always maintained Obamacare was not about providing health care but acquiring more power. If it was about health care you would not need the IRS involved.
 
2013-07-21 10:00:39 AM  

gfid: RexTalionis: Nabb1: Okay, but if it's centralized, why would someone in one, say, the IRS, need access to data compiled and used by DHS. And vice versa? Every personal, private detail about your health, finances and anything else could potentially be looked at by anyone at any of these agencies. Is that something we really want or need?

Having bulkanized data is kind of a problem in healthcare, isn't it? Suppose one doctor has it in their database that you are at particular risk for X disease and then you change doctors and the medical records don't transfer with you - well, now you you are in a far worse state than you were before.

Bulkanized?

Hey, I think you are really smart.  You should probably be our next Sturgeon General.


Oh, go fark yourself. It's a typo and it's early in the morning.
 
2013-07-21 10:02:50 AM  

Nabb1: kronicfeld: The massive, centralized database will include comprehensive personal information such as income and financial data, family size, citizenship and immigration status, incarceration status, social security numbers, and private health information. It will compile dossiers based on information obtained from the IRS, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Defense, the Veterans Administration, the Office of Personnel Management, the Social Security Administration, state Medicaid databases, and for some reason the Peace Corps.

So the government intends to centralize data it already has? This is an outrage.

Okay, but if it's centralized, why would someone in one, say, the IRS, need access to data compiled and used by DHS. And vice versa?  Every personal, private detail about your health, finances and anything else could potentially be looked at by anyone at any of these agencies. Is that something we really want or need?


You know that statement the Social Security Administration sends out showing what your benefit would be in the future? Have this information system generate a report each year showing every instance of an agency accessing your file, including the agency and which user login accessed it and what data was accessed.
 
2013-07-21 10:02:55 AM  

Bloody William: That's nothing. I hear the government already has a database of every American citizen... and assigns each of them a NUMBER. They're taking away our identities!


There's also a picture of Barack Insane Obonghit in every US military unit in the world. He's brainwashing them to be his Islamofascist shock troops!!!!!!

WAKE UP, SHEEEEEEPLE!!!!
 
2013-07-21 10:02:59 AM  

RexTalionis: gfid: RexTalionis: Nabb1: Okay, but if it's centralized, why would someone in one, say, the IRS, need access to data compiled and used by DHS. And vice versa? Every personal, private detail about your health, finances and anything else could potentially be looked at by anyone at any of these agencies. Is that something we really want or need?

Having bulkanized data is kind of a problem in healthcare, isn't it? Suppose one doctor has it in their database that you are at particular risk for X disease and then you change doctors and the medical records don't transfer with you - well, now you you are in a far worse state than you were before.

Bulkanized?

Hey, I think you are really smart.  You should probably be our next Sturgeon General.

Oh, go fark yourself. It's a typo and it's early in the morning.


Yeah - it's a typo.  After all, the 'a' key and the 'u' key are really close together.

/they aren't. not even on a dvorak keyboard
 
2013-07-21 10:04:31 AM  

Nabb1: Bloody William: Nabb1: Bloody William:
How does that make a difference? Your health insurer has access to your most important financial information...

No, they don't. You are misinformed.

Okay, what do they have access to, and again, why are the tax records suddenly such a big breaking point?

Your medical information and at the VERY least your income and other vital details are already shuffled around private servers handled by faceless worker drones with the objective of maximizing profit for your insurance company. How is the new system any more objectionable?

No, insurers do not have access to my financial records. Nor is my medical information in the hands of anyone who does not have a specific legal right to it, or who has a valid HIPAA release, and those a provider specific and good only for a limited time by the provisions of HIPAA itself. You need to cite your work and show me where you got this, because if my health insurer has my financial records without my consent, there's a big fat lawsuit headed their way, and if it's widespread, I'm going to make it a class action and retire when the dust settles.


If consent is the concern, then the user agreement for the exchange could include a release, thus circumventing the HIPAA claim.

(I just woke up for this stuff?)
 
2013-07-21 10:06:23 AM  
As I said when the NSA story broke.

Liberals are concerned about this all of a sudden? This is less than nothing compared to ObamaCare.
 
2013-07-21 10:06:29 AM  

MontanaDave: Nabb1: kronicfeld: The massive, centralized database will include comprehensive personal information such as income and financial data, family size, citizenship and immigration status, incarceration status, social security numbers, and private health information. It will compile dossiers based on information obtained from the IRS, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Defense, the Veterans Administration, the Office of Personnel Management, the Social Security Administration, state Medicaid databases, and for some reason the Peace Corps.

So the government intends to centralize data it already has? This is an outrage.

Okay, but if it's centralized, why would someone in one, say, the IRS, need access to data compiled and used by DHS. And vice versa?  Every personal, private detail about your health, finances and anything else could potentially be looked at by anyone at any of these agencies. Is that something we really want or need?

You know that statement the Social Security Administration sends out showing what your benefit would be in the future? Have this information system generate a report each year showing every instance of an agency accessing your file, including the agency and which user login accessed it and what data was accessed.


They stopped sending that about 2-3 years ago. You'd need to go to the SSA's website or call the agency if you want that info now.
 
2013-07-21 10:06:44 AM  
Sometimes I wish conservatives could hear themselves.
 
2013-07-21 10:06:51 AM  

Bloody William: Would you trust thousands of low-level Federal bureaucrats and contractors with one-touch access to your private financial and medical information?

Yeah, we already do, except they're tens of thousands of low-level private sector data entry drones with shiattier benefits and pay than federal bureaucrats working for different competing organizations all guided by profit.

Nabb1: Okay, but if it's centralized, why would someone in one, say, the IRS, need access to data compiled and used by DHS. And vice versa?  Every personal, private detail about your health, finances and anything else could potentially be looked at by anyone at any of these agencies. Is that something we really want or need?

Assuming HIPAA is still in effect, which it is, the health information is still considered protected. And the paragraph you quoted seemed to indicate that the information comes FROM those organizations, not that it makes it all freely available to them. This is still the database used for the ACA, and not some amorphous universal government citizen registry. There's still plenty of room for bickering, pissing matches, and (most importantly) cursory requirements for authorization between agencies.


Exactly. Access controls are one of the first things you do when you design a database and it 'should' be reviewed on an ongoing basis. Giving the minimum access required for a person to do thier job is one of the basics of being a DBA.

But if you actually follow the links provided in TFA you quickly realize the author is simply spreading FUD.

They point to this doc
http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-13-601

Then shift gears and point to many other articles they themselves have done to create teh appearance of a nefarious link. Nothing they provide actually indicates this database will be collecting info from all these agencies. But what do you expect form a website with the motto "Welcome to Today's Conservative Conversation"
 
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