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(Independent)   From the better late then never ministry, Alan Turing to be pardoned   (independent.co.uk) divider line 88
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3834 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Jul 2013 at 6:30 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-20 04:41:23 PM
Nice gesture is nice albeit long overdue.
 
2013-07-20 04:48:12 PM

quatchi: Nice gesture is nice albeit long overdue.


And what about all the other good folks in Britain over the centuries that were convicted and/or killed for being gay?  Not that Parliament should pay reparations or anything, but an apology would be nice.   You know, for firing, beating, raping and/or killing us over the years.  Also, a promise to STOP TREATING US LIKE shiat would be good.

Just sayin'.
 
2013-07-20 04:54:38 PM
The man practically single-handedly broke the Nazi's encryption for the Brits and the Brits betrayed him after the war. I don't think a mere apology goes far enough.
 
2013-07-20 04:55:00 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: quatchi: Nice gesture is nice albeit long overdue.

And what about all the other good folks in Britain over the centuries that were convicted and/or killed for being gay?  Not that Parliament should pay reparations or anything, but an apology would be nice.   You know, for firing, beating, raping and/or killing us over the years.  Also, a promise to STOP TREATING US LIKE shiat would be good.

Just sayin'.


Not treating gay people like shiat works for me.

But it's not enuff.

Why not just declare a new national holiday in lieu of another apology?

Oscar Wilde Day.

A day to somberly reflect on the injustices historically dealt to the gay community and to celebrate snarky clever witticisms.

It would be epic.
 
2013-07-20 05:01:47 PM
Ministry should be pardoned for it too. Right after it has been dead and gone as long as Turing has.
 
2013-07-20 05:23:56 PM

unlikely: Ministry should be pardoned for it too. Right after it has been dead and gone as long as Turing has.


Al Jourgensen?
 
2013-07-20 05:30:08 PM
Sure as shiat it is overdue.

Is there any upcoming anniversary of Turings life events that can give us a round number?
 
2013-07-20 05:31:39 PM
Get in line behind Oscar Wilde.
 
2013-07-20 05:43:12 PM
He could never be pardoned for promoting electronics and ignoring the clean energy of steam.
 
2013-07-20 05:49:19 PM
government Whip Lord

How do I get this job?
 
2013-07-20 05:58:39 PM

cman: Sure as shiat it is overdue.

Is there any upcoming anniversary of Turings life events that can give us a round number?


The centenary of Turing's life was last year. One of the cabinet ministers was asked to pardon Turing, but he refused.
 
2013-07-20 06:29:34 PM
FFS...

THEN != THAN!!!

Better late THAN never. Please go commit seppuku with a dull #2 pencil, to expiate the shame of what you have done.

/ unless that was a grammar troll
// then 9.5/10
 
2013-07-20 06:34:37 PM
Super, let's see if he's available for comment
 
2013-07-20 06:35:48 PM
how can you "be" a homosexual.  that's like saying someone can "be" a pedophile.  when we're just human
 
2013-07-20 06:45:18 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: how can you "be" a homosexual.  that's like saying someone can "be" a pedophile.  when we're just human


How you can "be" a human?  When we're just mammals.
 
2013-07-20 06:46:49 PM
Jon iz teh kewl:  when we're just human

There's a test for that. And the majority of the net trolls would fail it.
 
2013-07-20 06:48:44 PM
Speaking of trolls, isn't he the guy who built C-3PO?
 
2013-07-20 06:51:28 PM

johnnieconnie: Get in line behind Oscar Wilde.


He'd probably like that.
 
2013-07-20 06:53:11 PM
Well, that's just fabulous.
 
2013-07-20 06:57:45 PM

ArkAngel: government Whip Lord

How do I get this job?


Serve Lolth, for one.
 
2013-07-20 06:59:52 PM
Some would say that's FABULOUS!
 
2013-07-20 07:05:03 PM

RexTalionis: The man practically single-handedly broke the Nazi's encryption for the Brits and the Brits betrayed him after the war. I don't think a mere apology goes far enough.


True. Let the Confederates have the British Isles as their new country.

/and Kate Upton as my private sex slave
 
2013-07-20 07:17:03 PM

Radak: Jon iz teh kewl: how can you "be" a homosexual.  that's like saying someone can "be" a pedophile.  when we're just human

How you can "be" a human?  When we're just mammals.


how can you "be" a Level 3 registered sex offender
 
2013-07-20 07:21:22 PM

quatchi: Oscar Wilde Day. A day to somberly reflect on the injustices historically dealt to the gay community and to celebrate snarky clever witticisms.

It would be epic.


How about calling it Stephen Fry Appreciation Day instead? He's still alive and would probably get an kick out of it, and SFAD sounds better than OWD.
 
2013-07-20 07:26:00 PM

quatchi: Nice gesture is nice albeit long overdue.


He's dead and likely so are all the people involved with it. This makes no sense to me honestly. Background checks up at Jesus H. Christ's Heavenly Valley subdivision now?
 
2013-07-20 07:30:57 PM
I heard the Mormons are going to baptize him so he can get into heaven now too!
 
2013-07-20 07:32:14 PM

gnosis301: ArkAngel: government Whip Lord

How do I get this job?

Serve Lolth, for one.


Loviatar? More like "bloviator", amirite Elminster?
 
2013-07-20 07:33:39 PM

RexTalionis: cman: Sure as shiat it is overdue.

Is there any upcoming anniversary of Turings life events that can give us a round number?

The centenary of Turing's life was last year. One of the cabinet ministers was asked to pardon Turing, but he refused.


IIRC, it was because he felt that a pardon would imply the conviction had been voided.  He thought that it should remain on the books to remind people of what happens when you have laws that discriminate.

Thinking about it, I kind of agree with him.  Don't pretend you never did something truly shameful
 
2013-07-20 07:35:24 PM

Wenchmaster: How about calling it Stephen Fry Appreciation Day instead? He's still alive and would probably get an kick out of it, and SFAD sounds better than OWD.


I'm aboard. Love me some SF.

From Blackadder to A Bit of Fry and Laurie to Jeeves and Wooster to his turn as Wilde and beyond the man is a freaking delight.

Latest thing on his IMDB page is that he's gonna play the Master of Laketown in The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug.

Lurving it.

If we could find some way of making pie a central tradition of SFAD that would be extra cool.

Not for any special symbolic reasons, mostly because I really like pie.
 
2013-07-20 07:38:04 PM
Better late than never would be creating a large, conspicuous monument of shame for the people who persecuted Turing.
 
2013-07-20 07:42:00 PM

Glockenspiel Hero: IIRC, it was because he felt that a pardon would imply the conviction had been voided. He thought that it should remain on the books to remind people of what happens when you have laws that discriminate.

Thinking about it, I kind of agree with him. Don't pretend you never did something truly shameful


You remembered it with more rose-colored glasses than I did:

"A posthumous pardon was not considered appropriate as Alan Turing was properly convicted of what at the time was a criminal offence," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16919012
 
2013-07-20 07:45:47 PM
So, he was forgiven for being persicuted? LOL WUT
 
2013-07-20 07:47:24 PM

milsorgen: He's dead and likely so are all the people involved with it. This makes no sense to me honestly. Background checks up at Jesus H. Christ's Heavenly Valley subdivision now?


As a gesture you are right it is meaningless in any practical terms in terms of impacting Mr Turing but as a symbolic gesture it might still do some good.

That carefully noted, it was a law on the books at the time, it was a dumb law by modern lights, of course, but there it was. I too feel that Parliaments too-little/too-late pardon approach here is wrongheaded albeit well meant. They should just apologize again properly and more fully for their shabby treatment of Mr Turing and state unequivocally that those laws were unjust back then and carefully note how society has come a long way since those days and just own their mistake of turning on a national hero rather than trying to do some half-assed legal revisionism appeasement thing.

But SFAD could still be a thing.
 
2013-07-20 07:48:03 PM
Why don't they pardon EVERY person who was jailed/etc... for being gay?
 
2013-07-20 07:49:26 PM
As a Turing fan, I'm also alarmed that they would pardon him but not everyone else who was arrested for the same "crime." That doesn't seem fair at all.

Either way, it seems like an attempt to whitewash history.
 
2013-07-20 07:49:38 PM
PersEcuted not persIcuted!

Burp herp derp
 
2013-07-20 07:50:40 PM

RexTalionis: Glockenspiel Hero: IIRC, it was because he felt that a pardon would imply the conviction had been voided. He thought that it should remain on the books to remind people of what happens when you have laws that discriminate.

Thinking about it, I kind of agree with him. Don't pretend you never did something truly shameful

You remembered it with more rose-colored glasses than I did:

"A posthumous pardon was not considered appropriate as Alan Turing was properly convicted of what at the time was a criminal offence," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16919012


From the article:



"However, the law at the time required a prosecution and, as such, long-standing policy has been to accept that such convictions took place and, rather than trying to alter the historical context and to put right what cannot be put right, ensure instead that we never again return to those times."

Seems to me pretty close, rose colored glasses or no.
 
2013-07-20 07:51:06 PM
I don't like this.  Pardoning someone says, "Yeah, you did something wrong, but we're going to just ignore that crime you committed."  Turing didn't  do anything wrong, even if at the time what he was was a criminal offense.  Hiding behind "Well, it was illegal at the time" is just a cowardly, cultural-relativist way of avoiding the issue.

In lieu of a pardon, the British government should be publicly apologizing to those and to the surviving families of those who were convicted under this hateful law.  One at a time.  And build a memorial or something.
 
2013-07-20 07:56:59 PM

quatchi: Nice gesture is nice albeit long overdue.


No, it's not.  They can take their pardon and shove it up their arse.

austerity101: In lieu of a pardon, the British government should be publicly apologizing to those and to the surviving families of those who were convicted under this hateful law.  One at a time.  And build a memorial or something.


Why?  The people most responsible for their torture are long retired or dead, so prosecution is out of the question, even if that was legal. So why even do anything for them or their families to "make it right"? It's akin to descendants of slaves asking for reparations. It doesn't undo the wrong.
 
2013-07-20 07:59:50 PM

IlGreven: quatchi: Nice gesture is nice albeit long overdue.

No, it's not.  They can take their pardon and shove it up their arse.

austerity101: In lieu of a pardon, the British government should be publicly apologizing to those and to the surviving families of those who were convicted under this hateful law.  One at a time.  And build a memorial or something.

Why?  The people most responsible for their torture are long retired or dead, so prosecution is out of the question, even if that was legal. So why even do anything for them or their families to "make it right"? It's akin to descendants of slaves asking for reparations. It doesn't undo the wrong.


I'm not talking about reparations.  No one needs to get money or rice krispies treats.  I'm talking about apologies.  

And it's important because the apology has the far-reaching significance that says that gays won't be persecuted any more.  Not just for Alan Turing, but for all of its citizens.
 
2013-07-20 08:01:17 PM

whistleridge: FFS...

THEN != THAN!!!

Better late THAN never. Please go commit seppuku with a dull #2 pencil, to expiate the shame of what you have done.

/ unless that was a grammar troll
// then 9.5/10


Sue me, i forgot to check in my haste to post
 
2013-07-20 08:03:27 PM
Why should he be pardoned? It was against the law, and he broke the law, whether or not you like that law.
 
2013-07-20 08:03:49 PM
How did this not happen years ago?

/rhetorical
 
2013-07-20 08:04:09 PM

epoch_destroi: Why should he be pardoned? It was against the law, and he broke the law, whether or not you like that law.


Exactly.  They should apologize for the law existing in the first place.  A pardon just insinuates that the law was a good one to begin with.
 
2013-07-20 08:04:21 PM

unlikely: Ministry should be pardoned for it too. Right after it has been dead and gone as long as Turing has.


This. Dissolve the ministry!
 
2013-07-20 08:18:46 PM

epoch_destroi: Why should he be pardoned? It was against the law, and he broke the law, whether or not you like that law.


You're right.... enshrine the law in the Awesome Law Place Of The Most Awesome Laws!
 
2013-07-20 08:20:07 PM

gameshowhost: epoch_destroi: Why should he be pardoned? It was against the law, and he broke the law, whether or not you like that law.

You're right.... enshrine the law in the Awesome Law Place Of The Most Awesome Laws!


I'm not saying the law shouldn't have been changed, but all this does is show people that no matter what law they break, they may be some day pardoned. Which is bullshiat.
 
2013-07-20 08:20:51 PM

austerity101: epoch_destroi: Why should he be pardoned? It was against the law, and he broke the law, whether or not you like that law.

Exactly.  They should apologize for the law existing in the first place.  A pardon just insinuates that the law was a good one to begin with.


EXACTLY. Point out that the law was farked. A  padon is pointless.
 
2013-07-20 08:20:57 PM

epoch_destroi: Why should he be pardoned? It was against the law, and he broke the law, whether or not you like that law.


Look, he liked chocolate, and it was a stupid law.
 
2013-07-20 08:22:54 PM

OtherLittleGuy: epoch_destroi: Why should he be pardoned? It was against the law, and he broke the law, whether or not you like that law.

Look, he liked chocolate, and it was a stupid law.


I agree that the law was awful and regressive. I'm queer. I'm not argueing that. ('m argueing a pardon was the wrong route.
 
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