If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Herald Tribune (SW Florida))   Remember those warrantless door to door searches everyone was okay with in Boston because it was a unique circumstance and other police agencies would never try it? Welcome to the new America   (heraldtribune.com) divider line 151
    More: Asinine, Louise Goldsberry, United States Marshals Service, police raid, home invasions  
•       •       •

25527 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jul 2013 at 6:02 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-07-20 03:23:43 PM
27 votes:

NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.


Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.
2013-07-20 03:16:37 PM
20 votes:
I like how the cop thinks that since he didn't shoot her she shouldn't be going to the press

/Christ what an asshole
2013-07-20 03:35:31 PM
15 votes:

ManateeGag: I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.


That's because you know how to act white. And don't say you don't know what I'm talking about.

The police aren't friends, and they're not to be trusted.
2013-07-20 05:16:40 PM
14 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:


I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

SO, all the cops need to do is laser-sight the occupants to get someone to scream, and warrants are no longer required? And you seem to be ok with this?
2013-07-20 03:41:55 PM
13 votes:
"I went above and beyond," Wiggins said. "I have to go home at night."

No you didn't, you giant back of dicks, and one day you won't be going home at night because someone will shoot you, and you'll probably be to blame.
2013-07-20 04:31:39 PM
10 votes:
I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.
2013-07-20 03:28:29 PM
10 votes:
Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

F*ck this guy!
2013-07-20 03:18:28 PM
10 votes:
FTFA:Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

That sounds like a threat to me.I have a feeling that if there's a lawsuit, there might be a one-car "accident" or she might get pulled over and a bag of meth or coke is suddenly going to materialize in her car.
2013-07-20 03:06:04 PM
10 votes:
Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.
2013-07-20 03:40:24 PM
9 votes:
"The tip was never about Goldsberry's apartment, specifically, Wiggins acknowledged. It was about the complex.

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said."


Aaannnnnnd, that's a federal lawsuit won right there. The law is pretty crystal clear in this particular area.
2013-07-20 06:20:26 PM
7 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.

Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.


It wasn't "no one answers when police identified themselves" it was a person inside the apartment responding to a voice through the door that claimed they were the police by asking for some identification yo be shown. Any law enforcement officer that has a problem with showing identification needs to be released to find another line of work.
2013-07-20 06:01:36 PM
7 votes:
Yawn. This happens all the time in black/ or Hispanic or poverty stricken areas. Botched drug raids. Mistaken identities. Busting into homes of innocent elderly people and slamming them to the floor just for 'training purposes'.

It's never newsworthy because people don't care.
2013-07-20 05:36:42 PM
7 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.


so all the cops gotta do is make up some bullshiat about exigent circumstances and you're good with them violating your rights?
2013-07-20 05:20:36 PM
7 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: I don't see a police over-reach in this.


then go back to sleep.  you won't understand the rest of this conversation anyway.
2013-07-20 03:42:16 PM
7 votes:
Remember the good old days of " If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"?
2013-07-20 06:17:10 PM
6 votes:
More and more people are packing these days and if cops keep doing this shiat they're going to end up getting shot by people standing their ground to protect themselves and their property. If you're going to treat all citizens as armed and dangerous criminals you can't expect citizens to not treat all intruders as armed and dangerous criminals.
2013-07-20 05:49:48 PM
6 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.


Marshal didn't say that.

Paraphrased: Looking for a fugitive on a tip... every other neighbor opened their door... these people didn't. That told me the fugitive was probably there, so I entered the apartment.

Not cool.
2013-07-20 05:40:34 PM
6 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.


Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.
2013-07-20 06:24:25 PM
5 votes:

WizardofToast: vudutek: Remember the good old days of " If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"?

I think it's become more of "If it's not you in trouble, it's nothing to worry about. The person in trouble probably deserved it."


Oh, by the way, sorry about your border collie pitbull that threatened to attack us, it gave us no choice, it was acting threatening through the bedroom door. Oh, and that fire started by the CS Grenade we threw through your child's window? Not our fault, unforeseen circumstances y'know. Oh, by the way, your child is being taken to CPS, because you didn't provide a clean environment for her, there were toys and dirty clothes on the floor all over her room.

Cops have absolute license to kill pretty much anyone they see, at any time they want. Police are actively sorted for narcissistic and sociopathic personalities. Departments WANT people that would shoot a dog or an old woman or a little kid without stopping to consider the circumstances. They aren't trained to think at all while on the job, they are programmed to react to stimuli, even if it is based purely on an assumption on the officer's part. It doesn't matter, cops are almost never prosecuted for cold-blooded murder in this country. They can chase an unarmed man down the street, dressed as street bums, and shoot him in the back, and they get medals for it.
2013-07-20 06:15:51 PM
5 votes:

Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.


It's not the culture. It's the shiat-stains who have their boots on your throat and force you to pay them for your enslavement.
2013-07-20 06:15:25 PM
5 votes:
Yup.... and after a few more of these, a group of criminals will kelvar up, raid a place as "police", and they're be able to get in and out without incident, until the local police find out, "hey! that wasn't OUR raid!"
2013-07-20 05:28:52 PM
5 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: vudutek: TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

SO, all the cops need to do is laser-sight the occupants to get someone to scream, and warrants are no longer required? And you seem to be ok with this?

The courts have long held that warrantless searches are legal if there are exigent circumstances, such as the officer's belief that someone is in mortal danger.

The officer at the door did not likely know that the woman was screaming because she possibly saw another officer through the window.  To his knowledge he was in an area where there was a reported fugitive, and there was a woman screaming in terror inside of her apartment.  It was his duty to protect the public safety to enter that apartment to make sure she wasn't being murdered, raped, etc.

Everything that came afterward seems to be SOP because there was a gun pointed at the officer and someone else in the apartment who (as far as the officer knew) may have been responsible for why she was screaming.


um...no.
2013-07-20 05:03:02 PM
5 votes:

Weaver95: I have friends of mine who believe themselves to be fierce conservatives and believe that government should be extremely limited....and yet they blindly support the war on drugs and the war on terror, believing that the bill of rights is an impediment and that we can trust law enforcement not to abuse it's authority over us.  I personally don't understand their mindset but there you go.


This is my entire extended family, and they wonder why I don't visit.  When I tell them, as an ex-cop, that the balance of power is out of control they say it is because I am just a liberal Northerner.

God this country is full of idiots, and I am related to most of them apparently.
2013-07-20 04:43:56 PM
5 votes:

thamike: shanrick: Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.

words of wisdom.

Meta-paranoia is the best kind of paranoia.


I have friends of mine who believe themselves to be fierce conservatives and believe that government should be extremely limited....and yet they blindly support the war on drugs and the war on terror, believing that the bill of rights is an impediment and that we can trust law enforcement not to abuse it's authority over us.  I personally don't understand their mindset but there you go.
2013-07-20 06:27:39 PM
4 votes:

Weaver95: thamike: shanrick: Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.

words of wisdom.

Meta-paranoia is the best kind of paranoia.

I have friends of mine who believe themselves to be fierce conservatives and believe that government should be extremely limited....and yet they blindly support the war on drugs and the war on terror, believing that the bill of rights is an impediment and that we can trust law enforcement not to abuse it's authority over us.  I personally don't understand their mindset but there you go.


You've described the wingnut branch of my family to a tee, except they're convinced that the proto-fascist surveillance state only started to matter in January 2009.  They were perfectly ducky with it from 2001 until 2008, when they were convinced that the magic rock in the oval office was repelling the tigers.  See, they believe that as long as the right sort of dictator is in charge, everything will be fine--it's only when you get a man without any integrity, morality and ethics in charge that the panopticon suddenly becomes dangerous and evil.  The idea that more than one person can be involved and that, the larger the organization, the easier it becomes for anyone working for that organization to deny that they have any personal responsibility in what that organization DOES, is completely foreign to them, and I've given up trying to explain it to them.  It only sends them into a frothing rage.

They also believe that the Aurora, CO shooting, the Newton Massacre and the Boston Marathon Bombing were false-flag operations.  Crank magnetism in action, y'all.
2013-07-20 06:23:38 PM
4 votes:

edmo: More and more people are packing these days and if cops keep doing this shiat they're going to end up getting shot by people standing their ground to protect themselves and their property. If you're going to treat all citizens as armed and dangerous criminals you can't expect citizens to not treat all intruders as armed and dangerous criminals.


The media will be on their side, though. That's what kind of bothered me with no-knock warrants. The cops can barge into the wrong house, armed to the teeth, and the resident upstairs will be thinking "Somebody broke in!" and get their gun out. The resident thinks a burglar had come in, the cops think the criminal is going to go out with a fight. The resident gets shot apart and the media will treat it like it's the resident's fault.
2013-07-20 06:22:50 PM
4 votes:
I certainly hope she's going to sue the f--- out of this guy and his department.
2013-07-20 06:21:48 PM
4 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.

Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.


The police may not create the exigent circumstances, even if they are unknowingly acting in coordination. (Who is to say the weren't doing so knowingly?)

I believe this was recently decided at at least the federal appeals level if not at the Supreme Court. (But since I'm using my phone I'm going to be a poor poster and not provide a citation)

IMHO this guy is lucky to be going home alive. The paramilitant mindset of the police is not only dangerous for us but is also dangerous for them. Sooner or later one of these guys is going to break down the wrong door and be on the losing end of a rifle wielded under a Castle or Stand Your Ground law.
2013-07-20 06:19:59 PM
4 votes:
Matt Wiggins, US Marshall Asshole-of-theYear.

Deserves to lose his job and his pension for that kind of behavior and poor judgment.

And the two victims of his brutal and illegal assault deserve to be made wealthy at his employer's expense to discourage this kind of thing in the future.
2013-07-20 06:19:33 PM
4 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


THEY are lucky THEY didn't get shot. Her home, bro. Her farking home.
2013-07-20 06:14:47 PM
4 votes:
What is it with you people and your obsessions with 'freedom'?
The USA is one of the least 'free' places in the first world, we're just sold an illusion that we're free in order to placate us and keep us on the same side as the authorities.
Either wake up and smell the mushroom tea, and in the process accept that you're not 'free', or keep drinking the Kool Aid, but please stop harping on about civil liberties or losses of freedom.
The police are employed to control you, let them do that or pay the consequences.
2013-07-20 05:08:53 PM
4 votes:
If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.
2013-07-20 03:27:57 PM
4 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.


what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.
2013-07-20 09:05:30 PM
3 votes:
TuteTibiImperes:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I  don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


Dear Fark - the above post is an  almost perfect example of how to deceive and manipulate others while attempting to appear objective, honest and authoritative. Farkers who've experienced any sort of psychologically abusive relationship will immediately recognize the tone and techniques used in said post -  artificial empathy, repeated affirmations of authority, qualitative verbiage, inappropriate usage of the passive form, etc.  There's nothing about this post that doesn't stink of an agenda wrapped in dishonesty.

Tutes is either in law enforcement or is heavily invested in someone who is. Which is it?
2013-07-20 08:42:38 PM
3 votes:

A Terrible Human: And this is why you stay as far the fark away from cops when they're running around the apartment building where you live. Turn off the lights,close the curtains and try to relax until they're done farking around.


i.imgur.com
2013-07-20 07:03:27 PM
3 votes:
Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

No she shouldn't. She should go to a nice law firm and see if she can sue. If this sort of behavior is costly to the police they will modify their behavior.
2013-07-20 07:00:27 PM
3 votes:

YoOjo: What is it with you people and your obsessions with 'freedom'?
The USA is one of the least 'free' places in the first world, we're just sold an illusion that we're free in order to placate us and keep us on the same side as the authorities.
Either wake up and smell the mushroom tea, and in the process accept that you're not 'free', or keep drinking the Kool Aid, but please stop harping on about civil liberties or losses of freedom.
The police are employed to control you, let them do that or pay the consequences.


This.

Get out. Spend some time wandering around Western Europe or Australia, and start to see how other systems work - even without a bill of rights or the freedom to carry a concealed weapon in public. Look at how criminals are prosecuted in criminal courts rather than judge under civil rules where the winner is the guy with the most expensive lawyer.

The US is an amazing place for its entrepreneurial mindset and ability to turn ideas into reality, but even the liberal world-views are conservative in comparison to much of the world.
2013-07-20 07:00:08 PM
3 votes:
You guys have short-term memories, and my google fu is failing me, but there was a MARINE killed a couple years ago when. . . Get this. . . A cop accidentally shot the door jamb of his house during a police raid (they were at the wrong house). The marine had a gun and thought someone was getting ready to rob him and his wife and kid. Wife ended up holding up the baby to the police saying don't shoot me.

People who think this sort of shiat was new to Boston haven't been paying attention.
2013-07-20 06:54:03 PM
3 votes:
My favorite part was where the officer justified his actions by saying "well everyone else did what I said and since this couple didn't that let me know that's where the bad guy was"
What a load of horseshiat.
2013-07-20 06:44:15 PM
3 votes:

Bacontastesgood: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I like how the cop thinks that since he didn't shoot her she shouldn't be going to the press

/Christ what an asshole

Seriously.  What a f---- prick.  Part of me wishes she had panicked and shot him, although I think we all know what the result would have been.  "Two domestic terrorists covering up a child sexual slavery ring 'exchanged gunfire' with numerous officers sent to apprehend them, wounding one.  The blood loss in the perpetrators' bodies was more than compensated by the increase in weight due to copper and lead."

Maybe someday the prick cop will have a warrantless knock on his door with a tac team and a red dot on his forehead.


The sad part is that the whole thing might have been avoided if Officer Dickhead had pulled the badge out from under his bulletproof vest instead of just relying on the authority inherent in profanity to prove that they were indeed the farking police.
2013-07-20 06:44:09 PM
3 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.


Dude...the guy at the window WAS one of the cops. The BF didn't refuse to open the
door, he just wanted to see ID to verify that the armed men pounding on his door were,
in fact, the police.
2013-07-20 06:42:34 PM
3 votes:

mrlewish: What they gonna do on the day some innocent home owner shoots multiple cops dead while they are barging in without a warrant and he/she records it all?


Turn the homeowner and any witnesses in the house into leaky meat, confiscate any cameras, computers or obvious recording equipment as "evidence," make sure that they find something illegal--maybe some crystal meth, say, or a few cans of brake fluid or de-icer that they can CLAIM was for making meth, or cocaine or child pr0n on a laptop or something--and intimidate any outside witnesses into silence.  Lean on anyone who DOES go to the press and if it actually somehow goes to court, throw enough obfuscation and doubt on any witness testimony that no one can even be sure the witness is actually even in the court room, much less that s/he saw anything untoward happen that night.

You know, business as usual.
2013-07-20 06:30:30 PM
3 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly...


I dunno, "show me your badge" which was responded to by the police etc with essentially "no"? fark them.
2013-07-20 06:28:09 PM
3 votes:
According to TFA, she didn't start screaming until she had a farking laser sight on her.  I'd likely scream too.  I work with normal cops every day, and believe me, none of them would try shiat like this.  This is the Marshalls/SWAT-type officers on a power trip, and posters here are right, its going to get them and innocent people killed if this is SOP for them.
2013-07-20 06:02:16 PM
3 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.

Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.


I think you're failing to understand what elicited the screams in the first place. They could've thrown in a smoke grenade and the other cops go barging in saying, "We saw smoke!"

That seems OK to you?
2013-07-20 04:59:45 PM
3 votes:

Weaver95: I have friends of mine who believe themselves to be fierce conservatives


I have friends who believe themselves to be rockstars... one who believes himself to be a race car driver... and one who believes herself to be a professional poker player.

Doesn't mean that they are. Just means that we both have stupid friends.
2013-07-20 04:41:12 PM
3 votes:

thamike: What's new about this? 50 years ago they'd both be dead.  And the cops would have been looking for marijuana Communists, not kiddie rapists.  Get some f*cking perspective.


Fixed for historical accuracy.
2013-07-20 04:40:48 PM
3 votes:
When I was a kid, I was brainwashed to love the militarization of police. So really, how can I object now?
2013-07-20 07:41:55 PM
2 votes:
Lessee: "open up its the Police!"
And I believe them because...
2013-07-20 07:34:41 PM
2 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.


the cop never said he heard her scream he said they went in because they didn't open the door right away
2013-07-20 07:29:24 PM
2 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


There's a farkload of overreach.

First, the Heroic Officers are too farking cool to wear badges or uniforms, and yet us civilian sheep are still supposed to know they are Officers and not just random criminals pointing guns at us.

Also, the Marshall involved pretty much threatened her in retaliation for going to the media.
2013-07-20 07:24:27 PM
2 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:

901.19Right of officer to break into building.-

(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be. They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.

I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.


Wow are you really that bad at reading. He *has* to announce his purpose.

"Open up ma'am. We're the police and we're searching the premise for wanted felon on the run."

They might even show the warrant.

Instead she got cops creeping around, point guns at her, telling her they "were the farking police", and several other alarming and boot stompy thing.
2013-07-20 07:20:14 PM
2 votes:
There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.
2013-07-20 07:05:48 PM
2 votes:
Remember, aim for the head, they are wearing body armor.
2013-07-20 07:05:10 PM
2 votes:
I always said that when this shiat started happening to white people on a regular basis, I would leave this country.

I'm gonna renew my passport tomorrow and when the last kid is out of college in a year, I'm out. Hopefully, a year is enough to plan.
2013-07-20 06:59:04 PM
2 votes:
I certainly won't defend the Marshal here, or the fact we're getting very...police state-y with some of our protocols, and I'm a bit impressed at the fact she grabbed a  pistol when she saw a red laser guide pointed on her own goddamn forehead.

In a panic, I probably won't think "oh, it's the police and it must be a misunderstanding!" and yell  "Here, come in guys! I have cookies!!" either, but if all I have is a .38 caliber in the house, any single tracer beam flying about the kitchen most likely means whomever outside is doing it has friends, and my pistol will be going up multiple assault weapons...at which point after a few "WTF" moments internally I'd probably just rollover. This woman is ballsier than me.
2013-07-20 06:59:01 PM
2 votes:

Quintessential_Cynic: Okay, I'm well aware that this is stupid, but: has there ever been a referendum initiated by a populace on whether peace keeping was worth giving up privacy? I'm talking about through the entire course of history. It seems to be the default assumption that the vast majority will trade everything for safety, but I haven't personally seen that. I have to believe there is at least a sizable minority, surely full of machismo or self-loathing, who would take the opposite side. I know opposition exists, but it's usually coddled with "Of course we want to use every means necessary to [catch the bad guy, kill the bad guy, know the bad guy's plans]."

Is it really so far fetched to have somebody, anybody of note, publicly say, "The death of myself, my family, you, your family, or all of us is not a great enough reason to revoke privacy, the enumerated rights, and the ideal of liberty." ...and then not be treated as a joke?


They won't be treated as joke. See Ruby Ridge and the rest ...
2013-07-20 06:57:40 PM
2 votes:
Okay, I'm well aware that this is stupid, but: has there ever been a referendum initiated by a populace on whether peace keeping was worth giving up privacy? I'm talking about through the entire course of history. It seems to be the default assumption that the vast majority will trade everything for safety, but I haven't personally seen that. I have to believe there is at least a sizable minority, surely full of machismo or self-loathing, who would take the opposite side. I know opposition exists, but it's usually coddled with "Of course we want to use every means necessary to [catch the bad guy, kill the bad guy, know the bad guy's plans]."

Is it really so far fetched to have somebody, anybody of note, publicly say, "The death of myself, my family, you, your family, or all of us is not a great enough reason to revoke privacy, the enumerated rights, and the ideal of liberty." ...and then not be treated as a joke?
2013-07-20 06:56:26 PM
2 votes:

ManateeGag: Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.

what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


Lucky you.  I had one farking my ex wife.  I was pulled over continuously.  Its nice you never met one who has clearly forgotten his oath, but many have.
2013-07-20 06:50:19 PM
2 votes:

ManateeGag: Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.

what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


Yet. Better hope there's never an erroneous report of a rapist in your area or some enemy of yours doesn't call in a fake drug tip for your house. You can sue afterwards, you might even win, but that won't really matter if one of your loved ones is shot dead.
2013-07-20 06:47:12 PM
2 votes:

Smirky the Wonder Chimp: Turn the homeowner and any witnesses in the house into leaky meat, confiscate any cameras, computers or obvious recording equipment as "evidence," make sure that they find something illegal--maybe some crystal meth, say, or a few cans of brake fluid or de-icer that they can CLAIM was for making meth, or cocaine or child pr0n on a laptop or something--and intimidate any outside witnesses into silence.  Lean on anyone who DOES go to the press and if it actually somehow goes to court, throw enough obfuscation and doubt on any witness testimony that no one can even be sure the witness is actually even in the court room, much less that s/he saw anything untoward happen that night.

You know, business as usual.


Yeah.  The only way it works is to have cameras streaming to a remote server, well secured, which is set up with a script so if it isn't disabled daily or weekly to forward a link to the video to the NYT, 4chan, etcetera.  Maybe with a trap so if they try to hack it, the fingerprints are recorded too.  The cameras also need to be HD with high dynamic range so they aren't blown out by muzzle flare.  Who the fark is going to do all of that on the off chance some cops are going to murder them?
2013-07-20 06:37:17 PM
2 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I like how the cop thinks that since he didn't shoot her she shouldn't be going to the press

/Christ what an asshole


Seriously.  What a f---- prick.  Part of me wishes she had panicked and shot him, although I think we all know what the result would have been.  "Two domestic terrorists covering up a child sexual slavery ring 'exchanged gunfire' with numerous officers sent to apprehend them, wounding one.  The blood loss in the perpetrators' bodies was more than compensated by the increase in weight due to copper and lead."

Maybe someday the prick cop will have a warrantless knock on his door with a tac team and a red dot on his forehead.
2013-07-20 06:36:10 PM
2 votes:
Give up freedom for security and lose both.
2013-07-20 06:34:22 PM
2 votes:

See You Next Tuesday: ThatDarkFellow: If Obama had a pack of thugs destroying civil liberty they would look like these gentleman

If Fark had a village idiot he would type something about Obama out of the clear blue.


Fark has a metropolis of village idiots!

/ And depending on the day and the thread, I might be one of its fine citizens!
2013-07-20 06:33:46 PM
2 votes:

BafflerMeal: Over the course of my life it seems to me that the general thuggery of good ol boy cops in the south has become the sop model for police actions in the us writ large.


Cops have been militarized - no secrets there. And, I doubt there's much the citizenry can do about it at this stage in the game. Outside of leaving the US, that is.
2013-07-20 06:33:23 PM
2 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: I5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.


Based on this and your masterfull trolling of yesterday's Detroit thread, I anoint you King of the Fark Trolls. Congratulations!
2013-07-20 06:33:12 PM
2 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I like how the cop thinks that since he didn't shoot her she shouldn't be going to the press

/Christ what an asshole


Asshole indeed. She should sue this panty-waist, d*ckless, gutless wonder just for saying that! What a worthless piece of shiat he is!
2013-07-20 06:32:12 PM
2 votes:
Over the course of my life it seems to me that the general thuggery of good ol boy cops in the south has become the sop model for police actions in the us writ large.
2013-07-20 06:28:44 PM
2 votes:

Plant Rights Activist: tricycleracer: But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door.

That's some fine police work there.

anyone who runs is a criminal.  Anyone who stands still is a well disciplined criminal.


I was going to click on "funny," but quickly realized it's "sad" how true this is.
2013-07-20 06:27:49 PM
2 votes:

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I like how the cop thinks that since he didn't shoot her she shouldn't be going to the press

/Christ what an asshole


So all that is protecting us from a serial killer in cops uniform is to trust in the officer's discretion not to shoot you.  The fear that would cause any person to either freeze in place of desperately try to fight to stay alive.   A cop who is cold hearted enough and eager to kill people would find a nice home in SWAT.
2013-07-20 06:22:30 PM
2 votes:

phenn: TuteTibiImperes: She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

THEY are lucky THEY didn't get shot. Her home, bro. Her farking home.


Yup, she's just standing her ground under what she reasonably believes to be armed thugs trying to break in.

/hey, she wasn't far off
//unlike Officer Gunboner
2013-07-20 06:18:38 PM
2 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: Weaver95: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

so all the cops gotta do is make up some bullshiat about exigent circumstances and you're good with them violating your rights?

I wouldn't be cool with them making something up, no.  In this case however she admitted herself she was screaming her lungs out.  Ideally in the case of an illegal search where the officer stated that he heard something/smelled something that was evidence of a crime there would be some witnesses to back that story up and you would be able to have the search thrown out in court if it came to that.

Even better, we could expect officers of the law to not make shiat up (there will always be some bad apples, but from my experience the majority aren't corrupt).


If somebody started banging on my door, identifying themselves as "the farking police" seconds after some dude in a hunting vest just scared the shiat out of me in my own home, I sure as hell wouldn't let in the supposed "farking police officer." The timing is just too convenient.
2013-07-20 06:15:53 PM
2 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


I've bolded the issue. The cops should have done nothing until figuring out exactly what was going on.
2013-07-20 06:14:18 PM
2 votes:
But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door.

That's some fine police work there.
2013-07-20 05:19:27 PM
2 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: I don't see a police over-reach in this. If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger. Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon. She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


8/10

It was originally 7/10... but I added a point for length.

/giggity
2013-07-20 04:46:50 PM
2 votes:
Wow... that's pretty farked up.

Two things I took away from this story...

Unless that is a REALLY old picture... that's a pretty decent looking 59.
Cops are assholes.
2013-07-20 04:37:18 PM
2 votes:

Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.


words of wisdom.
2013-07-20 04:34:41 PM
2 votes:

Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.


But at least we'll all be armed to the teeth, so that should play out smoothly.
2013-07-20 04:15:17 PM
2 votes:

Igor Jakovsky: MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]

whitebread world?


Wonderplanet
2013-07-20 03:51:56 PM
2 votes:

ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


Let's play pictionary

4.bp.blogspot.comwww.dntdesigns.co.uk
2013-07-21 07:30:37 AM
1 votes:

Your Average Witty Fark User: Where's Cruiser Twelve to defend this shiat?


He changed his name to TutTibilmperes.

m00: from the article: The most volatile night of the convention featured one incident in which Jefferson County, Colorado, deputies unknowingly clashed with and then pepper-sprayed undercover Denver cops posing as violent protesters.


Wait, what?


This is nothing new.

Randy Weaver had no inclination at all to do anything illegal until some jackhole from the BATFE (they hate it when you use all their initials because they want to be a three-letter-agency) badgered him into sawing off a single shotgun in order to justify the siege on Ruby Ridge.

cgremlin: hardinparamedic: If you have a HCP, you are only required to inform the officer that you have a carry permit, and if you are armed or not.

In some states, not all (mine is among those that don't require it).  Having said that, use your best judgment, taking the situation into account.  The professional conversation you're having with an officer can change *very* quickly if your shirt tail blows up and he sees the concealed Glock you're (legally) carrying.


There are plenty of cops in Pennsylvania who will go to great lengths to confiscate a lawfully owned, lawfully carried firearm that they only know is there because they were told. They love to use the Record of Sale database (containing records that are supposed to be deleted 72 hours after the approval) as a de facto registry. If your gun's not in it, because you brought it when you moved to PA, it was a gift from your parent, or the record actually was deleted, they use that to take your gun.

Since I prefer not to be robbed of my firearms at badgepoint, I don't tell them. My gun is no threat to them and not their concern.

cgremlin: How much more likely is it that you will hear screaming inside a given house from a woman in legitimate distress, or just from someone watching a horror movie on TV?


Well, it kind of stacks the deck if you paint her with a laser sight in order to induce the screaming.
2013-07-21 04:16:09 AM
1 votes:

Boojum2k: cgremlin: hardinparamedic: If you have a HCP, you are only required to inform the officer that you have a carry permit, and if you are armed or not.

In some states, not all (mine is among those that don't require it).  Having said that, use your best judgment, taking the situation into account.  The professional conversation you're having with an officer can change *very* quickly if your shirt tail blows up and he sees the concealed Glock you're (legally) carrying.

I got to reverse that years ago. Two cops coming onto my Air Force base while I was working the gate, going to visit OSI, both plainclothes. I asked if they were carrying, and they, with a surprised expression, said they were. End result, OSI had to come out to escort them, and their sidearms stayed snugly in a lockbox. No, Mr. Policeman, on a military base under high security, you are a civilian and you do not get to carry.


Whoa - a cop treated as a lowly civilian?!  I wish I could have seen that....must have been a long time ago.
2013-07-21 03:20:12 AM
1 votes:

cgremlin: hardinparamedic: If you have a HCP, you are only required to inform the officer that you have a carry permit, and if you are armed or not.

In some states, not all (mine is among those that don't require it).  Having said that, use your best judgment, taking the situation into account.  The professional conversation you're having with an officer can change *very* quickly if your shirt tail blows up and he sees the concealed Glock you're (legally) carrying.


I got to reverse that years ago. Two cops coming onto my Air Force base while I was working the gate, going to visit OSI, both plainclothes. I asked if they were carrying, and they, with a surprised expression, said they were. End result, OSI had to come out to escort them, and their sidearms stayed snugly in a lockbox. No, Mr. Policeman, on a military base under high security, you are a civilian and you do not get to carry.
2013-07-21 12:15:01 AM
1 votes:
And the real kicker is the last sentence:

"Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press." "

Oh, so this sh*tsack not only violates several laws against illegal searches, but also thinks he can revoke a person's First Amendment right of Free Speech and to keep their trap shut, huh?

God, I hope this PIG gets one right between the eyes from a psycho of gang-banger soon. Very very soon. He is a bigger threat to society than any child-raping fugitive.
2013-07-20 11:05:15 PM
1 votes:
I'm shocked that fark has a problem with this considering most of fark is lib idiots.
2013-07-20 10:57:46 PM
1 votes:

FormlessOne: You want to do something useful? Push for de-militarizing the cops, not militarizing the civilians.


Actually... I would like to see both.
2013-07-20 10:37:54 PM
1 votes:

m00: sendtodave: "Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book": The new warrior cop is out of control

from the article: The most volatile night of the convention featured one incident in which Jefferson County, Colorado, deputies unknowingly clashed with and then pepper-sprayed undercover Denver cops posing as violent protesters.

Wait, what?


Happens all the time. Those in government need a reason to crack down on groups that oppose whatever they are doing. They also need to destroy the image of these groups to the public at large. The best way to do this is to infiltrate and promote/commit a violent act or to simply pose as them at a protest and start smashing things and attacking people. Fixes everything. It's been done in the USA since at least the 1960s.

Remember kids, the member of your group who wants to act violently is a cop or a fed. Kick him out or ignore him.
2013-07-20 10:20:01 PM
1 votes:

m00: sendtodave: An agent provocateur is a person employed to act undercover to entice or provoke another person to commit an illegal or rash act.

Yeah, but this isn't "rogue cop" evil. This is like... what the Egyptian government does.

There's a peaceful protest. You send in some undercover cops who throw rocks, damage property. Military comes in and kills/detains all the protestors because "they got violent."


Yeah, that's about right.

Why do you think that would happen in Egypt, but not at a protest in the US?
2013-07-20 10:16:45 PM
1 votes:
DrPainMD: Anybody who thinks that Americans today are somehow different from Soviets or Germans of the 1930s is delusional.

i5.photobucket.com
2013-07-20 09:34:24 PM
1 votes:
Too bad the cop didn't wind up shot. Sure, it probably wouldn't work out well for the woman, but at least the farker would be dead.
2013-07-20 09:19:51 PM
1 votes:
Warrants.  Still the law.  And if you can't follow the laws that you are paid to enforce and instead break them while brandishing weapons, guess what your job description says now, sh*t for brains.
2013-07-20 09:19:35 PM
1 votes:

AngryDragon: Smackledorfer: AngryDragon: cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.

But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....

Slippery slope is not a valid argument unless you can connect the dots.

Why this is so hard for people to grasp I have no idea, but I am sure you could find a dumbed down explanation with a quick googling if you or anyone else is having trouble.

Dot One:

[farm4.static.flickr.com image 500x335]

Dot Two:

[media.utsandiego.com image 850x574]


Pretty much. People say the slippery slope doesn't exist but that's because they their memory doesn't go back past lunch.

For this subject matter I suggest watching the Fox TV show "COPS". Start at the beginning in ~1989 and watch through the present day. Not every episode, just a representative sample. Yes it's TV. Yes it's edited. Yes it's idealized cop behavior. Yes it's done to make cops look good. But all of that is a constant and the goal is to see the change. These constants drop out of the equation. The change is documented by this show. Watch a 20+ year old episode of "COPS" it's shocking how different their behavior is. It's civil. It's confident, not paranoid. They don't scream at people as much. Someone owning guns  don't result in any over the top response. They deal with people instead of scream commands at them like they are the gunny and the other person is private Pyle.
2013-07-20 09:15:21 PM
1 votes:
FTFA:  Maybe none of them had a gun pointed at them through the kitchen window, I suggested. But Wiggins didn't think that was much excuse for the woman's behavior. He said he acted with restraint and didn't like having that gun aimed at him.

"I went above and beyond," Wiggins said. "I have to go home at night."


He went above and beyond?  It sounds like he wants a farking medal for not shooting the woman.

"We were clearly the police," Wiggins insisted. "She can't say she didn't know."
 This right here will come to bite this officer in the arse.  Unless you're in full uniform driving around in a squad car, there is no "clearly" about it.  This is why cops and civilians get shot, arrogant cops that think they have some sort of aura that law abiding people will yield compliance to.  Aiming a gun into someone's window, however, is not a clear identification that you are a police officer.
2013-07-20 09:11:26 PM
1 votes:

SuperNinjaToad: The problem is society WANTS and NEEDS assholes like these to be cops. We need the jerk A- type personality. We all have a given set of personality traits that make us who we are. We can't just switch our being based on certain circumstances we encounter.
This asshole is a US Marshall on a serious fugitive hunt. This event is a societal and law enforcement paradox.

Ask yourself this? can someone with a demure, laidback, non aggressive, really easy going personality be effective at his job? Do you even want someone like this to hunt down really bad people? The answer is NO we actually want and expect assholes to be cops because ironically by definition to catch assholes you're most likely one yourself.


Actually, I wonder if that is not exactly what would work.

As an inexact parallel, I present the Guantanamó Bay detainee interrogation torture program.

When using trained FBI interrogators - people who know that you essentially must make nice with your target if you want usable intelligence - the success rate was and is phenomenal. On the other hand, stress positions and other 'enhanced interrogation techniques' torture will produce answers ... of a kind. Just not the kind of usable answers you actually need.

So, yes: We should be using laid-back brainiacs to hunt down the really bad people. And also to determine if we need to send the hulked-out, over-armed, fully-militarized goons to apprehend them.

Of course, someone's budget might get cut. And some hulked-out goons might have to find other work but hey: The world needs plenty of highway road crews.
2013-07-20 09:10:18 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: RINO: I'm about to go through a police academy, but events like this worry me. Articles like this and Radley Balko's new book (which is a great farking read, by the way) make me fear that I might have to take part in bullshiat like this.

There will be no conflict on your part. You'll either be a man with principles and the balls to act on them or you'll be a pissy little authoritarian follower coward.
Your choice.


If you join a leper colony, your healthy immune system doesn't cure the lepers.  You just probably get leprosy.
2013-07-20 09:09:00 PM
1 votes:

RINO: I'm about to go through a police academy, but events like this worry me. Articles like this and Radley Balko's new book (which is a great farking read, by the way) make me fear that I might have to take part in bullshiat like this.


There will be no conflict on your part. You'll either be a man with principles and the balls to act on them or you'll be a pissy little authoritarian follower coward.
Your choice.
2013-07-20 08:55:28 PM
1 votes:
Like no on has ever impersonated a cop.
Here is crazy idea. Have the girl 911 and verify they are real cops.
2013-07-20 08:54:04 PM
1 votes:

Bravo Two: Mr Rogers is aroused: Befuddled: FTA: But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"I feel bad for her," [wannabe Stasi agent] Wiggins conceded, finally. "But at the same time, I had to reasonably believe the bad guy was in her house based on what they were doing."

Bullshiat. If I don't get up to answer the door every time somebody knocks, then I'm a criminal? I wouldn't believe that it's the cops at first as well, I would think it's someone who's up to no good trying to trick me into opening the door.

If this is a typical apartment, then there's one door in and out. If they think there's a wanted person inside, then they can wait the person out. There's no potential of evidence being destroyed to warrant their actions.

/more and more it feels like the cops are the enemy

Do you know how I can tell you aren't black?

He's just now coming to this conclusion?


now... now.... don't make fun of the slow kids.
www.pbase.com
2013-07-20 08:48:29 PM
1 votes:
You win libs, congrats
2013-07-20 08:48:03 PM
1 votes:
FTA: But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"I feel bad for her," [wannabe Stasi agent] Wiggins conceded, finally. "But at the same time, I had to reasonably believe the bad guy was in her house based on what they were doing."


Bullshiat. If I don't get up to answer the door every time somebody knocks, then I'm a criminal? I wouldn't believe that it's the cops at first as well, I would think it's someone who's up to no good trying to trick me into opening the door.

If this is a typical apartment, then there's one door in and out. If they think there's a wanted person inside, then they can wait the person out. There's no potential of evidence being destroyed to warrant their actions.

/more and more it feels like the cops are the enemy
2013-07-20 08:40:32 PM
1 votes:
And this is why you stay as far the fark away from cops when they're running around the apartment building where you live. Turn off the lights,close the curtains and try to relax until they're done farking around.
2013-07-20 08:38:33 PM
1 votes:
AngryDragon: Smackledorfer: AngryDragon: cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.

But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....


The devil's greatest trick was convincing everyone he doesn't exist.
2013-07-20 08:18:33 PM
1 votes:

Smackledorfer: AngryDragon: cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.

But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....

Slippery slope is not a valid argument unless you can connect the dots.

Why this is so hard for people to grasp I have no idea, but I am sure you could find a dumbed down explanation with a quick googling if you or anyone else is having trouble.


Dot One:

farm4.static.flickr.com

Dot Two:

media.utsandiego.com
2013-07-20 08:17:39 PM
1 votes:

fnordfocus: Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.


Well, it is easier to get a gun that get a job, so there's that.
2013-07-20 08:15:43 PM
1 votes:
kill any farker that busts through your door before they kill you
2013-07-20 07:58:17 PM
1 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two: Smackledorfer: Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.

These threads are 99% derp from both sides. Do you expect to reach anyone with this post? :)

Personally, I'm okay with this. Better that a hundred guilty men go free than an innocent be harmed.

I'd be OK with it as well, with an exception being made for situations in which there is believed to be a victim in danger inside.  I'm also fully onboard with rather seeing one hundred guilty go free that one innocent convicted.

I'm all for checks and balances against the system, but I'd rather take the compassionate position and not assume that something was done out of malice, and that there's always more to the story than what we hear in media blurbs.


Nothing was done out of malice, it was done out of an overblown sense of authority. The cop had to get his man and used every excuse to find him, legal or not. These people got caught in the way when they didn't immediately comply.

The problem is not malice on behalf of the cops, most act this way because they believe its for the common good. The problem is that they exercise their authority far beyond their legal mandate, doing harm to the citizenry at large for dubious gain, and have come to expect a synabulent public who will go along with it. Cops, like politicians, are there to serve the people and act only when they are given cause by way of a warrant or direct threat. Exigent circumstances are the slippery slope between having actual probable cause and merely having to come up with a decent excuse.
2013-07-20 07:57:36 PM
1 votes:

See You Next Tuesday: ThatDarkFellow: If Obama had a pack of thugs destroying civil liberty they would look like these gentleman

If Fark had a village idiot he would type something about Obama out of the clear blue.


So you hold Obama completely unaccountable for the continued police over reach in our nation?

Son, you need Jesus.
2013-07-20 07:48:05 PM
1 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two: TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

And yet the officer stated he entered because they didn't open up proving the guy was in there

It's possible he heard the screaming as well and that's one of the reasons he was concerned that no one opened the door.  We don't know every detail of how it happened, so there's no reasons to assume that the officers actions were malicious.  Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Uhhhh, what benefit of the doubt. He clearly stated it himself in the interview. God, you -are- a moron.

One statement based on one interview in one article does not the full story make.


When it is a self admission by the officer who committed the act it is.

This was not a third party witness. This was not the victim. This was the cop himself stating his justification for bursting in. I'm sure if he had done it based on screaming, he would have said so. Take the cop's dick out of your mouth. Cops are not our friends, and they state their intentions clearly over and over again.
2013-07-20 07:46:12 PM
1 votes:

bhcompy: Cops aren't your friends or your enemies, they're just strangers with guns.  How do you treat strangers with guns that you meet?


I've met plenty of strangers with guns at the range.

One or two were dumb enough I though they might shoot me by accident, but I didn't think any of them would kill me deliberately.  I can't say the same about Cops I've met.
2013-07-20 07:42:18 PM
1 votes:
Good thing the bad guys aren't allowed to say, "Open up, I'm the police".
2013-07-20 07:31:37 PM
1 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:

901.19Right of officer to break into building.-

(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be. They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.

I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.


No warrant. No reasonable expectation that the fugitive was in that apartment. No legal entry.

/Not to mention... No "announced his authority and purpose"
2013-07-20 07:31:18 PM
1 votes:

maddan: The cop heard a scream and that is the excuse to go in?  At that point, you have a hostage situation. (He is SURE there is an armed child rapist is inside)  Is this how a hostage situation should be handled?


the cop never said he heard a scream. he said they went in because they wouldn't open the door immediately.
2013-07-20 07:31:09 PM
1 votes:
If I'm ever whitemanrich, I'm getting ---

Panic Room - immediate safety  - lots of plate steel leading to...

Concealed Exit - exit without being seen/stopped.  Drainage pipe, concrete tunnel, something that gets me away from the house.

Automated Sentry Gun - Anything from pepper spray to skunk extract to blue dye-pack dye.  With small plaque outside of home "This home is protected by automated defenses.  You have been warned."
2013-07-20 07:25:44 PM
1 votes:
TuteTibiImperes
After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:
901.19Right of officer to break into building.-
(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be.
 They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.
I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.



This sounds like a cop version of 'I smell a gas leak'. 

Lets see what is decided after a lawsuit, since the officer jumped to a conclusion, not reasonably believed.
2013-07-20 07:25:35 PM
1 votes:

redmid17: TuteTibiImperes: After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:

901.19Right of officer to break into building.-

(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be. They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.

I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.

Wow are you really that bad at reading. He *has* to announce his purpose.

"Open up ma'am. We're the police and we're searching the premise for wanted felon on the run."

They might even show the warrant.

Instead she got cops creeping around, point guns at her, telling her they "were the farking police", and several other alarming and boot stompy thing.


Which armed criminals would never do of course.
2013-07-20 07:20:33 PM
1 votes:

Rincewind53: Aaannnnnnd, that's a federal lawsuit won right there. The law is pretty crystal clear in this particular area.


People who sue Law Enforcement tend end up dead.  FTFA: "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

Coming from a U.S. Marshall, that's a significant threat.  And Marshall Wiggins knows he's so far above the law, he doesn't mind making it on the record.

Never mind the fact, that even without a lawsuit or going to the press, this is two more people with an arrest record who are now unemployable, ineligible for welfare benefits, etc.
2013-07-20 07:18:57 PM
1 votes:
After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:

901.19Right of officer to break into building.-

(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be.
 They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.

I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.
2013-07-20 07:16:46 PM
1 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.

I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.

Thank your for making my point. Maybe you should change your Fark handle to Awl Hammer.

If that's what you want to think, go right ahead.  We have one account of the situation and we don't know the motivations of the officers entering.  I prefer to assume that most law enforcement agents are looking out for the common good and won't violate the law and regulations willingly.  If you want to assume most law enforcement agents as corrupt thugs, obviously that will change your i ...


The cops were the ones who pointed the farking gun at her and made her scream genius. The guy they were chasing was never suspected of being armed and was found and arrested unarmed. He also wasn't dressed up in a hunter's outfit.
2013-07-20 07:13:06 PM
1 votes:
Cops aren't your friends or your enemies, they're just strangers with guns.  How do you treat strangers with guns that you meet?
2013-07-20 07:13:03 PM
1 votes:

ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


I suppose you've never had any interaction, even a benign one, with Baltimore PD. Even being within speaking distance of them will change your view of police in general. *shudder*

/friend was assaulted by thugs downtown
//friend tried to press charges
///sargeant ended up shoving him into traffic, acting more thuggish than the people he was assaulted by
2013-07-20 07:12:00 PM
1 votes:

nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.

I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.

Thank your for making my point. Maybe you should change your Fark handle to Awl Hammer.


If that's what you want to think, go right ahead.  We have one account of the situation and we don't know the motivations of the officers entering.  I prefer to assume that most law enforcement agents are looking out for the common good and won't violate the law and regulations willingly.  If you want to assume most law enforcement agents as corrupt thugs, obviously that will change your interpretation of the situation.
2013-07-20 07:07:05 PM
1 votes:

Benjimin_Dover: TuteTibiImperes: Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.

Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.

It wasn't "no one answers when police identified themselves" it was a person inside the apartment responding to a voice through the door that claimed they were the police by asking for some identification yo be shown. Any law enforcement officer that has a problem with showing identification needs to be released to find another line of work.


That's what really bothers me here, along with searching an entire complex (and only being 'nice' to the residents who let them freely search), and handcuffing both of them, which sounds an awful lot like illegal imprisonment to me.
2013-07-20 07:06:27 PM
1 votes:

nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.


I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.
2013-07-20 06:58:26 PM
1 votes:

nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."


Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.
2013-07-20 06:54:28 PM
1 votes:

MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]


I'm 37, and even during my college years I never got cuffed.  This last July 4th.  I was invited to a party.  Just before 9, everyone in the building went on the roof to watch the fireworks.  Some people were shooting off roman candles.  The cops came.  Usually, it just means go home.  I waited for some of the ladies to go down the stairs and I was cuffed.

The good news, I was able to see the fireworks.  It was your basic stop-and-frisk the middle-aged white guy.  They cuffed five of us(out of 40 people on the roof), and all of us were in our 30s.(one guy, my friend, was Puerto Rican, but, that's not the point).

They got our wallets out and ran our driver's licenses to see we had warrants.  Since, we were cuffed, they had to charge us w/ something.  They charged us w/ trespassing, b/c the landlord would need a permit for the tenants to have rooftop access (That's what the cops told us).
So, now I have a carbon copy of the citation and I can't read it, and the precinct aren't helping me of informing when I should I should contest this in court.  Rather annoying.

So, yeah, until last July 4th, I never had a legal bad run-in w/ the cops (I've had angry traffic cops, but, that's another issue).

/meandering story, bro.
2013-07-20 06:53:22 PM
1 votes:
Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."
2013-07-20 06:52:30 PM
1 votes:
Assuming the story is true, that's some scary farking shiat right there.
2013-07-20 06:52:00 PM
1 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


crossfitfire.com
2013-07-20 06:45:55 PM
1 votes:
every SWAT/SRT/TRU operator needs to be outed. Why?. Every citizen has the right to.
2013-07-20 06:40:56 PM
1 votes:
Raylan Givens would have sweet talked her out.
2013-07-20 06:36:48 PM
1 votes:

HotIgneous Intruder: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

You sound white.


He sounds like a slave.
2013-07-20 06:30:46 PM
1 votes:
Don't hesitate to shoot next time.
2013-07-20 06:28:31 PM
1 votes:
In late to remind everyone... welcome to the 4th reich.
2013-07-20 06:26:41 PM
1 votes:
What they gonna do on the day some innocent home owner shoots multiple cops dead while they are barging in without a warrant and he/she records it all?
2013-07-20 06:23:26 PM
1 votes:

edmo: More and more people are packing these days and if cops keep doing this shiat they're going to end up getting shot by people standing their ground to protect themselves and their property. If you're going to treat all citizens as armed and dangerous criminals you can't expect citizens to not treat all intruders as armed and dangerous criminals.


Except the cops will kill you one or another:  http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780519 904.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories
2013-07-20 06:21:02 PM
1 votes:

edmo: More and more people are packing these days and if cops keep doing this shiat they're going to end up getting shot by people standing their ground to protect themselves and their property. If you're going to treat all citizens as armed and dangerous criminals you can't expect citizens to not treat all intruders as armed and dangerous criminals.


A bunch of armed cops versus one armed person is always going to end up with the civilian dying though, like the old lady here in Atlanta about a decade ago. Not just because of strength in numbers but who is more prepared for a shootout, the frightened homeowner or the assault crew on the offensive?
2013-07-20 06:20:53 PM
1 votes:

tricycleracer: But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door.

That's some fine police work there.


anyone who runs is a criminal.  Anyone who stands still is a well disciplined criminal.
2013-07-20 06:16:35 PM
1 votes:
You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.
2013-07-20 06:15:47 PM
1 votes:
If you're really outraged about this you should kill the police officer they named in the article. Otherwise it's just a bunch of complaining that won't lead to anything.
2013-07-20 06:13:15 PM
1 votes:
Welcome to the United Police States of America.
2013-07-20 06:11:18 PM
1 votes:
People were okay with the Boston thing? I thought they were just trying to troll.
2013-07-20 06:10:05 PM
1 votes:
Well except for the fact that the situation was nothing like Boston, and the cops were US Marshals, and likely to get in a shiatload of trouble over this, yeah, I can see where Subby is right to be concerned about the similarities and the dangers of an incipient police state.
2013-07-20 06:07:15 PM
1 votes:

vudutek: Remember the good old days of " If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"?


I think it's become more of "If it's not you in trouble, it's nothing to worry about. The person in trouble probably deserved it."
2013-07-20 05:42:29 PM
1 votes:

Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.


Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.
2013-07-20 05:33:03 PM
1 votes:
Do they have a lower success rate of catching child rapists in the UK, where the cops don't go around pointing their hand-penises at everyone? Somehow I suspect they do ok.
2013-07-20 05:30:23 PM
1 votes:
Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.
2013-07-20 05:27:52 PM
1 votes:

vudutek: TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

SO, all the cops need to do is laser-sight the occupants to get someone to scream, and warrants are no longer required? And you seem to be ok with this?


The courts have long held that warrantless searches are legal if there are exigent circumstances, such as the officer's belief that someone is in mortal danger.

The officer at the door did not likely know that the woman was screaming because she possibly saw another officer through the window.  To his knowledge he was in an area where there was a reported fugitive, and there was a woman screaming in terror inside of her apartment.  It was his duty to protect the public safety to enter that apartment to make sure she wasn't being murdered, raped, etc.

Everything that came afterward seems to be SOP because there was a gun pointed at the officer and someone else in the apartment who (as far as the officer knew) may have been responsible for why she was screaming.
2013-07-20 05:22:30 PM
1 votes:
I'm just posting in here before I get called out.
2013-07-20 05:09:29 PM
1 votes:

cman: Well, being scared of an external threat is better than fighting amongst ourselves I suppose


Adrian Veidt certainly thought so.
2013-07-20 04:33:46 PM
1 votes:

ecmoRandomNumbers: Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

F*ck this guy!


And this, too.
2013-07-20 04:32:32 PM
1 votes:
What's new about this? 50 years ago they'd both be dead.  And the cops would have been looking for marijuana, not kiddie rapists.  Get some f*cking perspective.
 
Displayed 151 of 151 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report