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(Herald Tribune (SW Florida))   Remember those warrantless door to door searches everyone was okay with in Boston because it was a unique circumstance and other police agencies would never try it? Welcome to the new America   ( heraldtribune.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Louise Goldsberry, United States Marshals Service, police raid, home invasions  
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25566 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jul 2013 at 6:02 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



581 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-07-20 03:06:04 PM  
Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.
 
2013-07-20 03:16:37 PM  
I like how the cop thinks that since he didn't shoot her she shouldn't be going to the press

/Christ what an asshole
 
2013-07-20 03:18:28 PM  
FTFA:Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

That sounds like a threat to me.I have a feeling that if there's a lawsuit, there might be a one-car "accident" or she might get pulled over and a bag of meth or coke is suddenly going to materialize in her car.
 
2013-07-20 03:23:43 PM  

NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.


Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.
 
2013-07-20 03:27:57 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.


what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.
 
2013-07-20 03:28:29 PM  
Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

F*ck this guy!
 
2013-07-20 03:35:31 PM  

ManateeGag: I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.


That's because you know how to act white. And don't say you don't know what I'm talking about.

The police aren't friends, and they're not to be trusted.
 
2013-07-20 03:40:24 PM  
"The tip was never about Goldsberry's apartment, specifically, Wiggins acknowledged. It was about the complex.

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said."


Aaannnnnnd, that's a federal lawsuit won right there. The law is pretty crystal clear in this particular area.
 
2013-07-20 03:41:55 PM  
"I went above and beyond," Wiggins said. "I have to go home at night."

No you didn't, you giant back of dicks, and one day you won't be going home at night because someone will shoot you, and you'll probably be to blame.
 
2013-07-20 03:42:16 PM  
Remember the good old days of " If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"?
 
2013-07-20 03:51:56 PM  

ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


Let's play pictionary

4.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
dntdesigns.co.ukView Full Size
 
2013-07-20 04:11:30 PM  

MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]


whitebread world?
 
2013-07-20 04:15:17 PM  

Igor Jakovsky: MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]

whitebread world?


Wonderplanet
 
2013-07-20 04:15:17 PM  
Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.
 
2013-07-20 04:15:53 PM  

LordOfThePings: Igor Jakovsky: MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]

whitebread world?

Wonderplanet


Breadglobe!
 
2013-07-20 04:19:47 PM  

Shostie: LordOfThePings: Igor Jakovsky: MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]

whitebread world?

Wonderplanet

Breadglobe!


I thought it was Bread slices iPhone wallpaper.
 
2013-07-20 04:22:05 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Shostie: LordOfThePings: Igor Jakovsky: MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]

whitebread world?

Wonderplanet

Breadglobe!

I thought it was Bread slices iPhone wallpaper.


25.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-20 04:31:39 PM  
I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.
 
2013-07-20 04:32:32 PM  
What's new about this? 50 years ago they'd both be dead.  And the cops would have been looking for marijuana, not kiddie rapists.  Get some f*cking perspective.
 
2013-07-20 04:33:46 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

F*ck this guy!


And this, too.
 
2013-07-20 04:34:41 PM  

Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.


But at least we'll all be armed to the teeth, so that should play out smoothly.
 
2013-07-20 04:34:48 PM  
Well, being scared of an external threat is better than fighting amongst ourselves I suppose
 
2013-07-20 04:37:18 PM  

Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.


words of wisdom.
 
2013-07-20 04:38:14 PM  

shanrick: Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.

words of wisdom.


Meta-paranoia is the best kind of paranoia.
 
2013-07-20 04:40:48 PM  
When I was a kid, I was brainwashed to love the militarization of police. So really, how can I object now?
 
2013-07-20 04:41:12 PM  

thamike: What's new about this? 50 years ago they'd both be dead.  And the cops would have been looking for marijuana Communists, not kiddie rapists.  Get some f*cking perspective.


Fixed for historical accuracy.
 
2013-07-20 04:43:56 PM  

thamike: shanrick: Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.

words of wisdom.

Meta-paranoia is the best kind of paranoia.


I have friends of mine who believe themselves to be fierce conservatives and believe that government should be extremely limited....and yet they blindly support the war on drugs and the war on terror, believing that the bill of rights is an impediment and that we can trust law enforcement not to abuse it's authority over us.  I personally don't understand their mindset but there you go.
 
2013-07-20 04:46:50 PM  
Wow... that's pretty farked up.

Two things I took away from this story...

Unless that is a REALLY old picture... that's a pretty decent looking 59.
Cops are assholes.
 
2013-07-20 04:59:45 PM  

Weaver95: I have friends of mine who believe themselves to be fierce conservatives


I have friends who believe themselves to be rockstars... one who believes himself to be a race car driver... and one who believes herself to be a professional poker player.

Doesn't mean that they are. Just means that we both have stupid friends.
 
2013-07-20 05:03:02 PM  

Weaver95: I have friends of mine who believe themselves to be fierce conservatives and believe that government should be extremely limited....and yet they blindly support the war on drugs and the war on terror, believing that the bill of rights is an impediment and that we can trust law enforcement not to abuse it's authority over us.  I personally don't understand their mindset but there you go.


This is my entire extended family, and they wonder why I don't visit.  When I tell them, as an ex-cop, that the balance of power is out of control they say it is because I am just a liberal Northerner.

God this country is full of idiots, and I am related to most of them apparently.
 
2013-07-20 05:08:53 PM  
If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.
 
2013-07-20 05:09:29 PM  

cman: Well, being scared of an external threat is better than fighting amongst ourselves I suppose



Adrian Veidt certainly thought so.
 
2013-07-20 05:16:40 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


SO, all the cops need to do is laser-sight the occupants to get someone to scream, and warrants are no longer required? And you seem to be ok with this?
 
2013-07-20 05:17:05 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


i660.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-20 05:19:27 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I don't see a police over-reach in this. If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger. Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon. She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


8/10

It was originally 7/10... but I added a point for length.

/giggity
 
2013-07-20 05:20:36 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I don't see a police over-reach in this.


then go back to sleep.  you won't understand the rest of this conversation anyway.
 
2013-07-20 05:22:30 PM  
I'm just posting in here before I get called out.
 
2013-07-20 05:27:52 PM  

vudutek: TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

SO, all the cops need to do is laser-sight the occupants to get someone to scream, and warrants are no longer required? And you seem to be ok with this?


The courts have long held that warrantless searches are legal if there are exigent circumstances, such as the officer's belief that someone is in mortal danger.

The officer at the door did not likely know that the woman was screaming because she possibly saw another officer through the window.  To his knowledge he was in an area where there was a reported fugitive, and there was a woman screaming in terror inside of her apartment.  It was his duty to protect the public safety to enter that apartment to make sure she wasn't being murdered, raped, etc.

Everything that came afterward seems to be SOP because there was a gun pointed at the officer and someone else in the apartment who (as far as the officer knew) may have been responsible for why she was screaming.
 
2013-07-20 05:28:52 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: vudutek: TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

SO, all the cops need to do is laser-sight the occupants to get someone to scream, and warrants are no longer required? And you seem to be ok with this?

The courts have long held that warrantless searches are legal if there are exigent circumstances, such as the officer's belief that someone is in mortal danger.

The officer at the door did not likely know that the woman was screaming because she possibly saw another officer through the window.  To his knowledge he was in an area where there was a reported fugitive, and there was a woman screaming in terror inside of her apartment.  It was his duty to protect the public safety to enter that apartment to make sure she wasn't being murdered, raped, etc.

Everything that came afterward seems to be SOP because there was a gun pointed at the officer and someone else in the apartment who (as far as the officer knew) may have been responsible for why she was screaming.


um...no.
 
2013-07-20 05:30:23 PM  
Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.
 
2013-07-20 05:33:03 PM  
Do they have a lower success rate of catching child rapists in the UK, where the cops don't go around pointing their hand-penises at everyone? Somehow I suspect they do ok.
 
2013-07-20 05:36:42 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.


so all the cops gotta do is make up some bullshiat about exigent circumstances and you're good with them violating your rights?
 
2013-07-20 05:39:45 PM  

Weaver95: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

so all the cops gotta do is make up some bullshiat about exigent circumstances and you're good with them violating your rights?


I wouldn't be cool with them making something up, no.  In this case however she admitted herself she was screaming her lungs out.  Ideally in the case of an illegal search where the officer stated that he heard something/smelled something that was evidence of a crime there would be some witnesses to back that story up and you would be able to have the search thrown out in court if it came to that.

Even better, we could expect officers of the law to not make shiat up (there will always be some bad apples, but from my experience the majority aren't corrupt).
 
2013-07-20 05:40:34 PM  

flucto: Do they have a lower success rate of catching child rapists in the UK, where the cops don't go around pointing their hand-penises at everyone? Somehow I suspect they do ok.


i.imgur.comView Full Size


Oh hai, someone was asking about me?

/now with even more friends
 
2013-07-20 05:40:34 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.


Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.
 
2013-07-20 05:42:29 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.


Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.
 
2013-07-20 05:49:48 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.


Marshal didn't say that.

Paraphrased: Looking for a fugitive on a tip... every other neighbor opened their door... these people didn't. That told me the fugitive was probably there, so I entered the apartment.

Not cool.
 
2013-07-20 05:59:52 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.

Marshal didn't say that.

Paraphrased: Looking for a fugitive on a tip... every other neighbor opened their door... these people didn't. That told me the fugitive was probably there, so I entered the apartment.

Not cool.


I'll agree to that.  If he didn't hear any screaming or have reason to believe the people inside were under mortal danger, there wouldn't be a legitimate reason to enter the apartment.
 
2013-07-20 06:01:36 PM  
Yawn. This happens all the time in black/ or Hispanic or poverty stricken areas. Botched drug raids. Mistaken identities. Busting into homes of innocent elderly people and slamming them to the floor just for 'training purposes'.

It's never newsworthy because people don't care.
 
2013-07-20 06:02:16 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.

Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.


I think you're failing to understand what elicited the screams in the first place. They could've thrown in a smoke grenade and the other cops go barging in saying, "We saw smoke!"

That seems OK to you?
 
2013-07-20 06:04:37 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I don't see a police over-reach in this. If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger. Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon. She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


Absolutely this.  What if she was a siren?  Her carelessness could have seduced the cops and then the streets would have fewer cops and then the Greek gods would come marching right the fark down.  And believe me, you don't want to live in America which is controlled by crazy theocrats.  Get Ares in charge and this country will just start going to war with everyone.  Oh wait, Taxbongo already did this.  Thanks, Taxbongo.
 
2013-07-20 06:04:52 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: TuteTibiImperes: Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.

Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.

I think you're failing to understand what elicited the screams in the first place. They could've thrown in a smoke grenade and the other cops go barging in saying, "We saw smoke!"

That seems OK to you?


If they knew the screaming was because of the other cops' actions it would be wrong.  If they believed it was because of the fugitive, a domestic dispute, or some other reason unrelated to their presence, it wouldn't be wrong.
 
2013-07-20 06:07:12 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


...Magnificent!
 
2013-07-20 06:07:15 PM  

vudutek: Remember the good old days of " If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"?


I think it's become more of "If it's not you in trouble, it's nothing to worry about. The person in trouble probably deserved it."
 
2013-07-20 06:10:05 PM  
Well except for the fact that the situation was nothing like Boston, and the cops were US Marshals, and likely to get in a shiatload of trouble over this, yeah, I can see where Subby is right to be concerned about the similarities and the dangers of an incipient police state.
 
2013-07-20 06:11:18 PM  
People were okay with the Boston thing? I thought they were just trying to troll.
 
2013-07-20 06:13:15 PM  
Welcome to the United Police States of America.
 
2013-07-20 06:14:18 PM  
But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door.

That's some fine police work there.
 
2013-07-20 06:14:47 PM  
What is it with you people and your obsessions with 'freedom'?
The USA is one of the least 'free' places in the first world, we're just sold an illusion that we're free in order to placate us and keep us on the same side as the authorities.
Either wake up and smell the mushroom tea, and in the process accept that you're not 'free', or keep drinking the Kool Aid, but please stop harping on about civil liberties or losses of freedom.
The police are employed to control you, let them do that or pay the consequences.
 
2013-07-20 06:15:25 PM  
Yup.... and after a few more of these, a group of criminals will kelvar up, raid a place as "police", and they're be able to get in and out without incident, until the local police find out, "hey! that wasn't OUR raid!"
 
2013-07-20 06:15:47 PM  
If you're really outraged about this you should kill the police officer they named in the article. Otherwise it's just a bunch of complaining that won't lead to anything.
 
2013-07-20 06:15:51 PM  

Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.


It's not the culture. It's the shiat-stains who have their boots on your throat and force you to pay them for your enslavement.
 
2013-07-20 06:15:53 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


I've bolded the issue. The cops should have done nothing until figuring out exactly what was going on.
 
2013-07-20 06:16:35 PM  
You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.
 
2013-07-20 06:17:10 PM  
More and more people are packing these days and if cops keep doing this shiat they're going to end up getting shot by people standing their ground to protect themselves and their property. If you're going to treat all citizens as armed and dangerous criminals you can't expect citizens to not treat all intruders as armed and dangerous criminals.
 
2013-07-20 06:17:46 PM  
Obama will quickly nip this problem in the bud!
 
2013-07-20 06:17:49 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: People were okay with the Boston thing? I thought they were just trying to troll.


There were many on here that were fine with it.  It was...odd.  I don't think they were trolling either.
 
2013-07-20 06:17:53 PM  
20 goto 10;
 
2013-07-20 06:18:26 PM  

vudutek: Remember the good old days of " If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"?


When was that?
 
2013-07-20 06:18:38 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Weaver95: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

so all the cops gotta do is make up some bullshiat about exigent circumstances and you're good with them violating your rights?

I wouldn't be cool with them making something up, no.  In this case however she admitted herself she was screaming her lungs out.  Ideally in the case of an illegal search where the officer stated that he heard something/smelled something that was evidence of a crime there would be some witnesses to back that story up and you would be able to have the search thrown out in court if it came to that.

Even better, we could expect officers of the law to not make shiat up (there will always be some bad apples, but from my experience the majority aren't corrupt).


If somebody started banging on my door, identifying themselves as "the farking police" seconds after some dude in a hunting vest just scared the shiat out of me in my own home, I sure as hell wouldn't let in the supposed "farking police officer." The timing is just too convenient.
 
2013-07-20 06:19:26 PM  

you are a puppet: If you're really outraged about this you should kill the police officer they named in the article. Otherwise it's just a bunch of complaining that won't lead to anything.


I haven't even killed ZImmerman yet!
 
2013-07-20 06:19:33 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


THEY are lucky THEY didn't get shot. Her home, bro. Her farking home.
 
2013-07-20 06:19:59 PM  
Matt Wiggins, US Marshall Asshole-of-theYear.

Deserves to lose his job and his pension for that kind of behavior and poor judgment.

And the two victims of his brutal and illegal assault deserve to be made wealthy at his employer's expense to discourage this kind of thing in the future.
 
2013-07-20 06:20:18 PM  

I_C_Weener: The My Little Pony Killer: People were okay with the Boston thing? I thought they were just trying to troll.

There were many on here that were fine with it.  It was...odd.  I don't think they were trolling either.


I just assumed that they were really bad at it, what with calling the rest of us "pussies" for not wanting our homes violated.
 
2013-07-20 06:20:26 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.

Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.


It wasn't "no one answers when police identified themselves" it was a person inside the apartment responding to a voice through the door that claimed they were the police by asking for some identification yo be shown. Any law enforcement officer that has a problem with showing identification needs to be released to find another line of work.
 
2013-07-20 06:20:53 PM  

tricycleracer: But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door.

That's some fine police work there.


anyone who runs is a criminal.  Anyone who stands still is a well disciplined criminal.
 
2013-07-20 06:21:02 PM  

edmo: More and more people are packing these days and if cops keep doing this shiat they're going to end up getting shot by people standing their ground to protect themselves and their property. If you're going to treat all citizens as armed and dangerous criminals you can't expect citizens to not treat all intruders as armed and dangerous criminals.


A bunch of armed cops versus one armed person is always going to end up with the civilian dying though, like the old lady here in Atlanta about a decade ago. Not just because of strength in numbers but who is more prepared for a shootout, the frightened homeowner or the assault crew on the offensive?
 
2013-07-20 06:21:48 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.

Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.


The police may not create the exigent circumstances, even if they are unknowingly acting in coordination. (Who is to say the weren't doing so knowingly?)

I believe this was recently decided at at least the federal appeals level if not at the Supreme Court. (But since I'm using my phone I'm going to be a poor poster and not provide a citation)

IMHO this guy is lucky to be going home alive. The paramilitant mindset of the police is not only dangerous for us but is also dangerous for them. Sooner or later one of these guys is going to break down the wrong door and be on the losing end of a rifle wielded under a Castle or Stand Your Ground law.
 
2013-07-20 06:22:30 PM  

phenn: TuteTibiImperes: She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

THEY are lucky THEY didn't get shot. Her home, bro. Her farking home.


Yup, she's just standing her ground under what she reasonably believes to be armed thugs trying to break in.

/hey, she wasn't far off
//unlike Officer Gunboner
 
2013-07-20 06:22:50 PM  
I certainly hope she's going to sue the f--- out of this guy and his department.
 
2013-07-20 06:23:18 PM  

Hector Remarkable: you are a puppet: If you're really outraged about this you should kill the police officer they named in the article. Otherwise it's just a bunch of complaining that won't lead to anything.

I haven't even killed ZImmerman yet!


Just saying, if someone started killing all the police involved in these raids it would be really cool, especially if you released little videos after each kill like Mandarin in Iron man 3, or maybe you could give a big speech like Bane (in Banes voice). Maybe I'm just excited with Comicon going on, it's got me in a mood. Got my facial hair looking like Wolverine right now. Couldn't get the hair on my head right though...too curly
 
2013-07-20 06:23:26 PM  

edmo: More and more people are packing these days and if cops keep doing this shiat they're going to end up getting shot by people standing their ground to protect themselves and their property. If you're going to treat all citizens as armed and dangerous criminals you can't expect citizens to not treat all intruders as armed and dangerous criminals.


Except the cops will kill you one or another:  http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780519 904.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories
 
2013-07-20 06:23:38 PM  

edmo: More and more people are packing these days and if cops keep doing this shiat they're going to end up getting shot by people standing their ground to protect themselves and their property. If you're going to treat all citizens as armed and dangerous criminals you can't expect citizens to not treat all intruders as armed and dangerous criminals.


The media will be on their side, though. That's what kind of bothered me with no-knock warrants. The cops can barge into the wrong house, armed to the teeth, and the resident upstairs will be thinking "Somebody broke in!" and get their gun out. The resident thinks a burglar had come in, the cops think the criminal is going to go out with a fight. The resident gets shot apart and the media will treat it like it's the resident's fault.
 
2013-07-20 06:24:25 PM  

WizardofToast: vudutek: Remember the good old days of " If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"?

I think it's become more of "If it's not you in trouble, it's nothing to worry about. The person in trouble probably deserved it."


Oh, by the way, sorry about your border collie pitbull that threatened to attack us, it gave us no choice, it was acting threatening through the bedroom door. Oh, and that fire started by the CS Grenade we threw through your child's window? Not our fault, unforeseen circumstances y'know. Oh, by the way, your child is being taken to CPS, because you didn't provide a clean environment for her, there were toys and dirty clothes on the floor all over her room.

Cops have absolute license to kill pretty much anyone they see, at any time they want. Police are actively sorted for narcissistic and sociopathic personalities. Departments WANT people that would shoot a dog or an old woman or a little kid without stopping to consider the circumstances. They aren't trained to think at all while on the job, they are programmed to react to stimuli, even if it is based purely on an assumption on the officer's part. It doesn't matter, cops are almost never prosecuted for cold-blooded murder in this country. They can chase an unarmed man down the street, dressed as street bums, and shoot him in the back, and they get medals for it.
 
2013-07-20 06:26:41 PM  
What they gonna do on the day some innocent home owner shoots multiple cops dead while they are barging in without a warrant and he/she records it all?
 
2013-07-20 06:27:36 PM  
Good thing they were only looking for a suspected rapist and not some doper:   http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/drug-war-victim/
 
2013-07-20 06:27:39 PM  

Weaver95: thamike: shanrick: Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.

words of wisdom.

Meta-paranoia is the best kind of paranoia.

I have friends of mine who believe themselves to be fierce conservatives and believe that government should be extremely limited....and yet they blindly support the war on drugs and the war on terror, believing that the bill of rights is an impediment and that we can trust law enforcement not to abuse it's authority over us.  I personally don't understand their mindset but there you go.


You've described the wingnut branch of my family to a tee, except they're convinced that the proto-fascist surveillance state only started to matter in January 2009.  They were perfectly ducky with it from 2001 until 2008, when they were convinced that the magic rock in the oval office was repelling the tigers.  See, they believe that as long as the right sort of dictator is in charge, everything will be fine--it's only when you get a man without any integrity, morality and ethics in charge that the panopticon suddenly becomes dangerous and evil.  The idea that more than one person can be involved and that, the larger the organization, the easier it becomes for anyone working for that organization to deny that they have any personal responsibility in what that organization DOES, is completely foreign to them, and I've given up trying to explain it to them.  It only sends them into a frothing rage.

They also believe that the Aurora, CO shooting, the Newton Massacre and the Boston Marathon Bombing were false-flag operations.  Crank magnetism in action, y'all.
 
2013-07-20 06:27:47 PM  
If Obama had a pack of thugs destroying civil liberty they would look like these gentleman
 
2013-07-20 06:27:49 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I like how the cop thinks that since he didn't shoot her she shouldn't be going to the press

/Christ what an asshole


So all that is protecting us from a serial killer in cops uniform is to trust in the officer's discretion not to shoot you.  The fear that would cause any person to either freeze in place of desperately try to fight to stay alive.   A cop who is cold hearted enough and eager to kill people would find a nice home in SWAT.
 
2013-07-20 06:28:09 PM  
According to TFA, she didn't start screaming until she had a farking laser sight on her.  I'd likely scream too.  I work with normal cops every day, and believe me, none of them would try shiat like this.  This is the Marshalls/SWAT-type officers on a power trip, and posters here are right, its going to get them and innocent people killed if this is SOP for them.
 
2013-07-20 06:28:31 PM  
In late to remind everyone... welcome to the 4th reich.
 
2013-07-20 06:28:44 PM  

Plant Rights Activist: tricycleracer: But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door.

That's some fine police work there.

anyone who runs is a criminal.  Anyone who stands still is a well disciplined criminal.


I was going to click on "funny," but quickly realized it's "sad" how true this is.
 
2013-07-20 06:28:59 PM  

Deathfrogg: WizardofToast: vudutek: Remember the good old days of " If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"?

I think it's become more of "If it's not you in trouble, it's nothing to worry about. The person in trouble probably deserved it."

Oh, by the way, sorry about your border collie pitbull that threatened to attack us, it gave us no choice, it was acting threatening through the bedroom door. Oh, and that fire started by the CS Grenade we threw through your child's window? Not our fault, unforeseen circumstances y'know. Oh, by the way, your child is being taken to CPS, because you didn't provide a clean environment for her, there were toys and dirty clothes on the floor all over her room.

Cops have absolute license to kill pretty much anyone they see, at any time they want. Police are actively sorted for narcissistic and sociopathic personalities. Departments WANT people that would shoot a dog or an old woman or a little kid without stopping to consider the circumstances. They aren't trained to think at all while on the job, they are programmed to react to stimuli, even if it is based purely on an assumption on the officer's part. It doesn't matter, cops are almost never prosecuted for cold-blooded murder in this country. They can chase an unarmed man down the street, dressed as street bums, and shoot him in the back, and they get medals for it.


And the media and people will nitpick whatever the victims did to justify the action. They should have known about all the crime going on in their town! Well they probably did a crime anyway! They must have done something wrong! Cops don't kill good citizens!

There could be found footage of a quad amputee grandmother getting beating into paste by batons and the media would blame her for raising her voice at them when she should have known to respect authority.
 
2013-07-20 06:29:53 PM  

Deathfrogg: cops are almost never prosecuted for cold-blooded murder in this country. They can chase an unarmed man down the street, dressed as street bums, and shoot him in the back, and they get medals paid vacation for it.


Feexed. ;-)
 
2013-07-20 06:30:30 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly...


I dunno, "show me your badge" which was responded to by the police etc with essentially "no"? fark them.
 
2013-07-20 06:30:46 PM  
Don't hesitate to shoot next time.
 
2013-07-20 06:31:18 PM  

Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.


Personal finance this term really pushed "serving the wealthy" in that trash book The Millionaire Next door. Kind of strange strategy to push onto a bunch of kids and adults who couldn't think their way out of wet paper bag. The culture of this country is absolutely farked.
 
2013-07-20 06:31:41 PM  

See You Next Tuesday: If Fark had a village idiot he would type something about Obama out of the clear blue.


You realize Taxbongo was the commanding S.W.A.T. officer, right?  Or at least one of his clones.  The cloning technology has gotten very good, so it's very hard to tell.
 
2013-07-20 06:32:12 PM  
Over the course of my life it seems to me that the general thuggery of good ol boy cops in the south has become the sop model for police actions in the us writ large.
 
2013-07-20 06:33:12 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I like how the cop thinks that since he didn't shoot her she shouldn't be going to the press

/Christ what an asshole


Asshole indeed. She should sue this panty-waist, d*ckless, gutless wonder just for saying that! What a worthless piece of shiat he is!
 
2013-07-20 06:33:19 PM  

you are a puppet: Hector Remarkable: you are a puppet: If you're really outraged about this you should kill the police officer they named in the article. Otherwise it's just a bunch of complaining that won't lead to anything.

I haven't even killed ZImmerman yet!

Just saying, if someone started killing all the police involved in these raids it would be really cool, especially if you released little videos after each kill like Mandarin in Iron man 3, or maybe you could give a big speech like Bane (in Banes voice). Maybe I'm just excited with Comicon going on, it's got me in a mood. Got my facial hair looking like Wolverine right now. Couldn't get the hair on my head right though...too curly


i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-20 06:33:23 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.


Based on this and your masterfull trolling of yesterday's Detroit thread, I anoint you King of the Fark Trolls. Congratulations!
 
2013-07-20 06:33:46 PM  

BafflerMeal: Over the course of my life it seems to me that the general thuggery of good ol boy cops in the south has become the sop model for police actions in the us writ large.


Cops have been militarized - no secrets there. And, I doubt there's much the citizenry can do about it at this stage in the game. Outside of leaving the US, that is.
 
2013-07-20 06:33:53 PM  

Mike_LowELL: See You Next Tuesday: If Fark had a village idiot he would type something about Obama out of the clear blue.

You realize Taxbongo was the commanding S.W.A.T. officer, right?  Or at least one of his clones.  The cloning technology has gotten very good, so it's very hard to tell.


oh yeah, S.W.A.T. That reminds me..Colin Ferrell. Someone could wait outside this cop's house, he comes out, you shoot him in the head and say "Bullseye!"
 
2013-07-20 06:34:22 PM  

See You Next Tuesday: ThatDarkFellow: If Obama had a pack of thugs destroying civil liberty they would look like these gentleman

If Fark had a village idiot he would type something about Obama out of the clear blue.


Fark has a metropolis of village idiots!

/ And depending on the day and the thread, I might be one of its fine citizens!
 
2013-07-20 06:36:03 PM  

ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


You sound white.
 
2013-07-20 06:36:10 PM  
Give up freedom for security and lose both.
 
2013-07-20 06:36:48 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

You sound white.


He sounds like a slave.
 
2013-07-20 06:37:17 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I like how the cop thinks that since he didn't shoot her she shouldn't be going to the press

/Christ what an asshole


Seriously.  What a f---- prick.  Part of me wishes she had panicked and shot him, although I think we all know what the result would have been.  "Two domestic terrorists covering up a child sexual slavery ring 'exchanged gunfire' with numerous officers sent to apprehend them, wounding one.  The blood loss in the perpetrators' bodies was more than compensated by the increase in weight due to copper and lead."

Maybe someday the prick cop will have a warrantless knock on his door with a tac team and a red dot on his forehead.
 
2013-07-20 06:38:48 PM  

MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]


yeasty planet?
 
2013-07-20 06:39:28 PM  
cdn2.planetminecraft.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-20 06:40:56 PM  
Raylan Givens would have sweet talked her out.
 
2013-07-20 06:42:34 PM  

mrlewish: What they gonna do on the day some innocent home owner shoots multiple cops dead while they are barging in without a warrant and he/she records it all?


Turn the homeowner and any witnesses in the house into leaky meat, confiscate any cameras, computers or obvious recording equipment as "evidence," make sure that they find something illegal--maybe some crystal meth, say, or a few cans of brake fluid or de-icer that they can CLAIM was for making meth, or cocaine or child pr0n on a laptop or something--and intimidate any outside witnesses into silence.  Lean on anyone who DOES go to the press and if it actually somehow goes to court, throw enough obfuscation and doubt on any witness testimony that no one can even be sure the witness is actually even in the court room, much less that s/he saw anything untoward happen that night.

You know, business as usual.
 
2013-07-20 06:43:47 PM  

Jon iz teh kewl: [cdn2.planetminecraft.com image 850x637]


Is that a car full of cops having a taser orgy or is it a malfunctioning hybrid?
 
2013-07-20 06:44:09 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.


Dude...the guy at the window WAS one of the cops. The BF didn't refuse to open the
door, he just wanted to see ID to verify that the armed men pounding on his door were,
in fact, the police.
 
2013-07-20 06:44:15 PM  

Bacontastesgood: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I like how the cop thinks that since he didn't shoot her she shouldn't be going to the press

/Christ what an asshole

Seriously.  What a f---- prick.  Part of me wishes she had panicked and shot him, although I think we all know what the result would have been.  "Two domestic terrorists covering up a child sexual slavery ring 'exchanged gunfire' with numerous officers sent to apprehend them, wounding one.  The blood loss in the perpetrators' bodies was more than compensated by the increase in weight due to copper and lead."

Maybe someday the prick cop will have a warrantless knock on his door with a tac team and a red dot on his forehead.


The sad part is that the whole thing might have been avoided if Officer Dickhead had pulled the badge out from under his bulletproof vest instead of just relying on the authority inherent in profanity to prove that they were indeed the farking police.
 
2013-07-20 06:45:44 PM  

YoOjo: Jon iz teh kewl: [cdn2.planetminecraft.com image 850x637]

Is that a car full of cops having a taser orgy or is it a malfunctioning hybrid?


whatever it is, it's something cool because cops = cool
 
2013-07-20 06:45:55 PM  
every SWAT/SRT/TRU operator needs to be outed. Why?. Every citizen has the right to.
 
2013-07-20 06:47:12 PM  

Smirky the Wonder Chimp: Turn the homeowner and any witnesses in the house into leaky meat, confiscate any cameras, computers or obvious recording equipment as "evidence," make sure that they find something illegal--maybe some crystal meth, say, or a few cans of brake fluid or de-icer that they can CLAIM was for making meth, or cocaine or child pr0n on a laptop or something--and intimidate any outside witnesses into silence.  Lean on anyone who DOES go to the press and if it actually somehow goes to court, throw enough obfuscation and doubt on any witness testimony that no one can even be sure the witness is actually even in the court room, much less that s/he saw anything untoward happen that night.

You know, business as usual.


Yeah.  The only way it works is to have cameras streaming to a remote server, well secured, which is set up with a script so if it isn't disabled daily or weekly to forward a link to the video to the NYT, 4chan, etcetera.  Maybe with a trap so if they try to hack it, the fingerprints are recorded too.  The cameras also need to be HD with high dynamic range so they aren't blown out by muzzle flare.  Who the fark is going to do all of that on the off chance some cops are going to murder them?
 
2013-07-20 06:47:44 PM  

MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]


designtickle.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-20 06:48:15 PM  

Shostie: Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.


and what about Stewart Copeland?
 
2013-07-20 06:50:19 PM  

ManateeGag: Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.

what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


Yet. Better hope there's never an erroneous report of a rapist in your area or some enemy of yours doesn't call in a fake drug tip for your house. You can sue afterwards, you might even win, but that won't really matter if one of your loved ones is shot dead.
 
2013-07-20 06:50:27 PM  
The foundation of Christian culture is martyrdom. WIth out some cause/enemy/struggle to which they can sacrifice themselves, Christians are pretty lost. The result of this is the eternal, "other" as enemy of "freedom." Every generation has been convinced by its leadership, once in a while legitimately but most often not so, that the very existence of everything they know is at stake.

This is what has been implied about Islamic radical terrorists and it's fundamentally true, but the reaction has been galaxies out of proportion to the threat to the point that we are effectively on a global Crusade against mostly Islamic poor brown people, who we kill with bombs that cost a million dollars apiece launched from aircraft that cost $100 million apiece. At home, we are all subject to secret court orders that strip our Constitutional rights without the slightest public due process. All of your phone calls, emails, web searches, financial records, criminal records, and driving records are subject to secret collection and analysis.

Osama bin Laden's stated purpose was to bankrupt the United States of America, similarly to how he bled out the financial life of the Soviet Union. Bush fell right into the trap and now there seems to be no going back.

Feel safer?
And the congress voted all of this stuff into existence and the first black president, a constitutional scholar (albeit the Chicago School version of that strange animal) who governs objectively to the right of Richard Nixon, won't do anything about it because he doesn't want to appear weak.

Eventually, it will fall to the citizens to resist the creep of fascism across this country.
If shooting down drones, as proposed through the legislative process in a Colorado town this week, is the beginning or the place where we the people have to draw our line, so be it.
Fark the fascists. With an icepick. In the ear.
 
2013-07-20 06:52:00 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


crossfitfire.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-20 06:52:05 PM  
And look where it's at
Middle America, now it's a tragedy
Now it's so sad to see, an upper class city
Having this happening...

/boo hoo white people
//this shiat happens to minorities on the daily
 
2013-07-20 06:52:30 PM  
Assuming the story is true, that's some scary farking shiat right there.
 
2013-07-20 06:53:22 PM  
Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."
 
2013-07-20 06:54:03 PM  
My favorite part was where the officer justified his actions by saying "well everyone else did what I said and since this couple didn't that let me know that's where the bad guy was"
What a load of horseshiat.
 
2013-07-20 06:54:28 PM  

MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]


I'm 37, and even during my college years I never got cuffed.  This last July 4th.  I was invited to a party.  Just before 9, everyone in the building went on the roof to watch the fireworks.  Some people were shooting off roman candles.  The cops came.  Usually, it just means go home.  I waited for some of the ladies to go down the stairs and I was cuffed.

The good news, I was able to see the fireworks.  It was your basic stop-and-frisk the middle-aged white guy.  They cuffed five of us(out of 40 people on the roof), and all of us were in our 30s.(one guy, my friend, was Puerto Rican, but, that's not the point).

They got our wallets out and ran our driver's licenses to see we had warrants.  Since, we were cuffed, they had to charge us w/ something.  They charged us w/ trespassing, b/c the landlord would need a permit for the tenants to have rooftop access (That's what the cops told us).
So, now I have a carbon copy of the citation and I can't read it, and the precinct aren't helping me of informing when I should I should contest this in court.  Rather annoying.

So, yeah, until last July 4th, I never had a legal bad run-in w/ the cops (I've had angry traffic cops, but, that's another issue).

/meandering story, bro.
 
2013-07-20 06:55:57 PM  
Holy shiat.
 
2013-07-20 06:56:26 PM  

ManateeGag: Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.

what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


Lucky you.  I had one farking my ex wife.  I was pulled over continuously.  Its nice you never met one who has clearly forgotten his oath, but many have.
 
2013-07-20 06:57:27 PM  

Mike_LowELL: Her carelessness could have seduced the cops and then the streets would have fewer cops and then the Greek gods would come marching right the fark down.


http://www.amazon.com/Age-Zeus-Pantheon-Trilogy-ebook/dp/B004U7FAIG/ re f=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374361018&sr=8-1&keywords=age+of+zeus
 
2013-07-20 06:57:40 PM  
Okay, I'm well aware that this is stupid, but: has there ever been a referendum initiated by a populace on whether peace keeping was worth giving up privacy? I'm talking about through the entire course of history. It seems to be the default assumption that the vast majority will trade everything for safety, but I haven't personally seen that. I have to believe there is at least a sizable minority, surely full of machismo or self-loathing, who would take the opposite side. I know opposition exists, but it's usually coddled with "Of course we want to use every means necessary to [catch the bad guy, kill the bad guy, know the bad guy's plans]."

Is it really so far fetched to have somebody, anybody of note, publicly say, "The death of myself, my family, you, your family, or all of us is not a great enough reason to revoke privacy, the enumerated rights, and the ideal of liberty." ...and then not be treated as a joke?
 
2013-07-20 06:58:26 PM  

nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."


Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.
 
2013-07-20 06:59:01 PM  

Quintessential_Cynic: Okay, I'm well aware that this is stupid, but: has there ever been a referendum initiated by a populace on whether peace keeping was worth giving up privacy? I'm talking about through the entire course of history. It seems to be the default assumption that the vast majority will trade everything for safety, but I haven't personally seen that. I have to believe there is at least a sizable minority, surely full of machismo or self-loathing, who would take the opposite side. I know opposition exists, but it's usually coddled with "Of course we want to use every means necessary to [catch the bad guy, kill the bad guy, know the bad guy's plans]."

Is it really so far fetched to have somebody, anybody of note, publicly say, "The death of myself, my family, you, your family, or all of us is not a great enough reason to revoke privacy, the enumerated rights, and the ideal of liberty." ...and then not be treated as a joke?


They won't be treated as joke. See Ruby Ridge and the rest ...
 
2013-07-20 06:59:04 PM  
I certainly won't defend the Marshal here, or the fact we're getting very...police state-y with some of our protocols, and I'm a bit impressed at the fact she grabbed a  pistol when she saw a red laser guide pointed on her own goddamn forehead.

In a panic, I probably won't think "oh, it's the police and it must be a misunderstanding!" and yell  "Here, come in guys! I have cookies!!" either, but if all I have is a .38 caliber in the house, any single tracer beam flying about the kitchen most likely means whomever outside is doing it has friends, and my pistol will be going up multiple assault weapons...at which point after a few "WTF" moments internally I'd probably just rollover. This woman is ballsier than me.
 
2013-07-20 07:00:08 PM  
You guys have short-term memories, and my google fu is failing me, but there was a MARINE killed a couple years ago when. . . Get this. . . A cop accidentally shot the door jamb of his house during a police raid (they were at the wrong house). The marine had a gun and thought someone was getting ready to rob him and his wife and kid. Wife ended up holding up the baby to the police saying don't shoot me.

People who think this sort of shiat was new to Boston haven't been paying attention.
 
2013-07-20 07:00:27 PM  

YoOjo: What is it with you people and your obsessions with 'freedom'?
The USA is one of the least 'free' places in the first world, we're just sold an illusion that we're free in order to placate us and keep us on the same side as the authorities.
Either wake up and smell the mushroom tea, and in the process accept that you're not 'free', or keep drinking the Kool Aid, but please stop harping on about civil liberties or losses of freedom.
The police are employed to control you, let them do that or pay the consequences.


This.

Get out. Spend some time wandering around Western Europe or Australia, and start to see how other systems work - even without a bill of rights or the freedom to carry a concealed weapon in public. Look at how criminals are prosecuted in criminal courts rather than judge under civil rules where the winner is the guy with the most expensive lawyer.

The US is an amazing place for its entrepreneurial mindset and ability to turn ideas into reality, but even the liberal world-views are conservative in comparison to much of the world.
 
2013-07-20 07:02:24 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.


Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.
 
2013-07-20 07:02:32 PM  

ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


Hmm how about the time I was walking back from 7-11 at 2am... because I was studying for a final and needed some caffeine... I was simply walking across the street and I was stopped by a cruiser.  They proceeded to strip search me and give me several confusing sobriety tests.  Keep in mind I was in the middle of finals and was very low on sleep, maybe 1-2 hours a night for a couple of nights straight, and was just trying to walk home.

They eventually let me go after humiliating me and talking down to me, and wasting a couple hours of my time.
 
2013-07-20 07:03:27 PM  
Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

No she shouldn't. She should go to a nice law firm and see if she can sue. If this sort of behavior is costly to the police they will modify their behavior.
 
2013-07-20 07:03:40 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Hmm how about the time I was walking back from 7-11 at 2am... because I was studying for a final and needed some caffeine... I was simply walking across the street and I was stopped by a cruiser.  They proceeded to strip search me and give me several confusing sobriety tests.  Keep in mind I was in the middle of finals and was very low on sleep, maybe 1-2 hours a night for a couple of nights straight, and was just trying to walk home.

They eventually let me go after humiliating me and talking down to me, and wasting a couple hours of my time.


What better way to kill time on a night shift?
 
2013-07-20 07:05:10 PM  
I always said that when this shiat started happening to white people on a regular basis, I would leave this country.

I'm gonna renew my passport tomorrow and when the last kid is out of college in a year, I'm out. Hopefully, a year is enough to plan.
 
2013-07-20 07:05:48 PM  
Remember, aim for the head, they are wearing body armor.
 
2013-07-20 07:06:27 PM  

nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.


I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.
 
2013-07-20 07:07:05 PM  

Benjimin_Dover: TuteTibiImperes: Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.

Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.

It wasn't "no one answers when police identified themselves" it was a person inside the apartment responding to a voice through the door that claimed they were the police by asking for some identification yo be shown. Any law enforcement officer that has a problem with showing identification needs to be released to find another line of work.


That's what really bothers me here, along with searching an entire complex (and only being 'nice' to the residents who let them freely search), and handcuffing both of them, which sounds an awful lot like illegal imprisonment to me.
 
2013-07-20 07:07:39 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.

I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.


Thank your for making my point. Maybe you should change your Fark handle to Awl Hammer.
 
2013-07-20 07:07:57 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.


And doing so with no warrant while refusing to show ID, which it states in TFA, is also not legitimate.
 
2013-07-20 07:10:28 PM  
Opiate of the Lasses
And look where it's at
Middle America, now it's a tragedy
Now it's so sad to see, an upper class city
Having this happening...
/boo hoo white people
//this shiat happens to minorities on the daily


You are right, police are keeping their protected status while taking the war on to anyone the want to arrest.

But I do remember some quote about one of the primary reasons the United States had to stop the Vietnam war. Something about running out of of people from socially marginalized economic classes to draft. When the white middle class sees a problem, then it gets handled.

When Officer Steroids McBain shoots and harasses enough random middle class white people, their will be a movement to demand social change.

This is actually a concern and it is being measured to prevent kickback.
Link

Per wikipedia:
In 1967, the continued operation of a seemingly unfair draft system then calling as many as 40,000 men for induction each month fueled a burgeoning draft resistance movement. The draft favored white, middle-class men, which allowed an economically and racially discriminating draft to force young African American men to serve in rates that were disproportionately higher than the general population. Although in 1967 there was a smaller field of draft eligible black men-29 percent versus 63 percent of draft eligible white men-64 percent of black men were chosen to serve in the war through conscription, compared to only 31 percent of eligible white men.[87] In 1986 the Washington Post published an in depth examination of the subject titled "The Myth of the Vietnam Vet." According to the Post, "The man who fought in Vietnam is typically depicted as a draftee, unwilling and probably black. In fact, 73 percent of those who died were volunteers and 12.5 percent were black (out of an age group that comprised 13.5 percent of the male population)."[88]
 
2013-07-20 07:12:00 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: TuteTibiImperes: Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.

And doing so with no warrant while refusing to show ID, which it states in TFA, is also not legitimate.


The Constitution is just a silly document to people like him. They believe security is much more important than rights. To them, those who provide it, regardless of their methods, are always acting in your best interest.
 
2013-07-20 07:12:00 PM  

nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.

I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.

Thank your for making my point. Maybe you should change your Fark handle to Awl Hammer.


If that's what you want to think, go right ahead.  We have one account of the situation and we don't know the motivations of the officers entering.  I prefer to assume that most law enforcement agents are looking out for the common good and won't violate the law and regulations willingly.  If you want to assume most law enforcement agents as corrupt thugs, obviously that will change your interpretation of the situation.
 
2013-07-20 07:13:03 PM  

ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


I suppose you've never had any interaction, even a benign one, with Baltimore PD. Even being within speaking distance of them will change your view of police in general. *shudder*

/friend was assaulted by thugs downtown
//friend tried to press charges
///sargeant ended up shoving him into traffic, acting more thuggish than the people he was assaulted by
 
2013-07-20 07:13:06 PM  
Cops aren't your friends or your enemies, they're just strangers with guns.  How do you treat strangers with guns that you meet?
 
2013-07-20 07:13:06 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.


The article starts with her standing over the sink doing the dishes, to find a laser-sight dancing around her eyes. The Marshal had to have seen her (a) calmly doing her dishes, (b) realize his sight is on her, and (c) make eye contact while she immediately thinks (and probably makes a face implying such) "oh shiat".

Rape would have been the last thing on his mind, and any rational, intelligent person would deduce screams at that point would probably stem from being scared crapless.
 
2013-07-20 07:14:35 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.

I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.


Wow. You suck cop dick so hard you may just invert him. Bravo.

I thought you were just a troll after the Detroit thread, but...Jesus, just how dumb -are- you?
 
2013-07-20 07:15:57 PM  
Officer Wiggins will make a fine police chief.
 
2013-07-20 07:16:07 PM  

Bravo Two: Jesus, just how dumb -are- you?


Either a troll account or really farking dumb. Hard to say. Poe's Law in action.
 
2013-07-20 07:16:46 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.

I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.

Thank your for making my point. Maybe you should change your Fark handle to Awl Hammer.

If that's what you want to think, go right ahead.  We have one account of the situation and we don't know the motivations of the officers entering.  I prefer to assume that most law enforcement agents are looking out for the common good and won't violate the law and regulations willingly.  If you want to assume most law enforcement agents as corrupt thugs, obviously that will change your i ...


The cops were the ones who pointed the farking gun at her and made her scream genius. The guy they were chasing was never suspected of being armed and was found and arrested unarmed. He also wasn't dressed up in a hunter's outfit.
 
2013-07-20 07:16:50 PM  
Dead cop = Good cop?
 
2013-07-20 07:18:00 PM  

DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: Dead cop = Good cop?


i get it Trunkin Donuts

bubblews.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-20 07:18:57 PM  
After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:

901.19Right of officer to break into building.-

(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be.
 They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.

I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.
 
2013-07-20 07:19:06 PM  

lack of warmth: Officer Wiggins will make a fine police chief.


Bake him away, toys!
 
2013-07-20 07:19:38 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.

I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.

Thank your for making my point. Maybe you should change your Fark handle to Awl Hammer.

If that's what you want to think, go right ahead.  We have one account of the situation and we don't know the motivations of the officers entering.  I prefer to assume that most law enforcement agents are looking out for the common good and won't violate the law and regulations willingly.  If you want to assume most law enforcement agents as corrupt thugs, obviously that will change your interpretation of the situation.


Don't read the news much?

House to house searches in Boston. Two Asian ladies shot up by cops in LA looking for a big black guy. A marine killed in his own home because he heard gunshots and armed himself only to be gunned down by the cops raiding his house by mistake who didn't announce themselves. And those are the major ones.

Cops are not there to ensure the common good. They are there to force compliance through force and intimidation of some arbitrary government policies.

Now, kindly go back to sucking that cop dick in silence while Uncle Sam farks you up the ass.

/the more this shiat happens, the more Waco and ruby ridge smell.
 
2013-07-20 07:20:14 PM  
There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.
 
2013-07-20 07:20:33 PM  

Rincewind53: Aaannnnnnd, that's a federal lawsuit won right there. The law is pretty crystal clear in this particular area.


People who sue Law Enforcement tend end up dead.  FTFA: "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

Coming from a U.S. Marshall, that's a significant threat.  And Marshall Wiggins knows he's so far above the law, he doesn't mind making it on the record.

Never mind the fact, that even without a lawsuit or going to the press, this is two more people with an arrest record who are now unemployable, ineligible for welfare benefits, etc.
 
2013-07-20 07:21:23 PM  

Boojum2k: Bravo Two: Jesus, just how dumb -are- you?

Either a troll account or really farking dumb. Hard to say. Poe's Law in action.


Hey, I was right about Detroit, and at least I can make a logical argument here.  If you want to result to ad hominem attacks, go for it, but my arguments are well grounded here.
 
2013-07-20 07:22:30 PM  

MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]


Up Town Girl?
 
2013-07-20 07:22:31 PM  
It took some searching, but here's more info on the guy they were searching for.

Apparently a 14 year old girl was raped by relatives over the last few years. On person, Joshua Riley, was arrested back on July 5th.

Sarasota man charged with child molestation starting when victim was infant

Another relative, Kyle Riley, was also charged, and this was the guy they were looking for when the incident in TFA happened.

2nd family member charged in Sarasota incest case

Kyle Riley, wanted on sexual battery charges, has been arrested

And you can add witness tampering to the list of charges.

Witness tampering charge, 2nd arrest in incest case

None of this, however, excuses a home invasion by police. Especially in light of the fact that there was nothing to suggest Kyle was dangerous unless you were a 14 year old girl.
 
2013-07-20 07:22:38 PM  

Gyrfalcon: No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.


Eliminate the war on drugs, and it's a deal. Criminals with illegal weapons, most stolen good, etc., aren't going to be able to flush those down a toilet.
 
2013-07-20 07:22:41 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: vudutek: TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

SO, all the cops need to do is laser-sight the occupants to get someone to scream, and warrants are no longer required? And you seem to be ok with this?

The courts have long held that warrantless searches are legal if there are exigent circumstances, such as the officer's belief that someone is in mortal danger.

The officer at the door did not likely know that the woman was screaming because she possibly saw another officer through the window.  To his knowledge he was in an area where there was a reported fugitive, and there was a woman screaming in terror inside of her apartment.  It was his duty to protect the public safety to enter that apartment to make sure she wasn't being murdered, raped, etc.

Everything that came afterward seems to be SOP because there was a gun pointed at the officer and someone else in the apartment who (as far as the officer knew) may have been responsible for why she was screaming.


here's the problem. the cop never said he heard her scream and used that as an excuse to kick the door in. he said it was because they didn't open up immediately.
 
2013-07-20 07:23:43 PM  

Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.



It's a fix but there would be nothing easy about implementing it.  The government is very, very hesitant to relinquish controls once given.
 
2013-07-20 07:24:27 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:

901.19Right of officer to break into building.-

(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be. They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.

I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.


Wow are you really that bad at reading. He *has* to announce his purpose.

"Open up ma'am. We're the police and we're searching the premise for wanted felon on the run."

They might even show the warrant.

Instead she got cops creeping around, point guns at her, telling her they "were the farking police", and several other alarming and boot stompy thing.
 
2013-07-20 07:24:28 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I was right about Detroit


I didn't see what you had to say about Detroit.  Okay, you are using some logical arguments here, overly favorable to the police when there's dispute on interpretation, but fair enough. You are massively wrong elsewhere about the 2nd amendment but that's probably your personal bias speaking.

Fine. Carry on.
 
2013-07-20 07:25:35 PM  

redmid17: TuteTibiImperes: After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:

901.19Right of officer to break into building.-

(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be. They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.

I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.

Wow are you really that bad at reading. He *has* to announce his purpose.

"Open up ma'am. We're the police and we're searching the premise for wanted felon on the run."

They might even show the warrant.

Instead she got cops creeping around, point guns at her, telling her they "were the farking police", and several other alarming and boot stompy thing.


Which armed criminals would never do of course.
 
2013-07-20 07:25:40 PM  

Bmorrison: Shostie: Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.

and what about Stewart Copeland?


He's an asshole.
 
2013-07-20 07:25:44 PM  
TuteTibiImperes
After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:
901.19Right of officer to break into building.-
(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be.
 They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.
I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.



This sounds like a cop version of 'I smell a gas leak'. 

Lets see what is decided after a lawsuit, since the officer jumped to a conclusion, not reasonably believed.
 
2013-07-20 07:26:56 PM  
fnordfocus:

Never mind the fact, that even without a lawsuit or going to the press, this is two more people with an arrest record who are now unemployable, ineligible for welfare benefits, etc.

The article states that she was never arrested, and while it doesn't explicitly state that he wasn't, it say that they just handcuffed him for half an hour while they searched then released him, I'm assume that he was just detained as well and not arrested.
 
2013-07-20 07:28:04 PM  
it's just like Baghdad in 2003
 
2013-07-20 07:28:27 PM  

you are a puppet: Just saying, if someone started killing all the police involved in these raids it would be really cool, especially if you released little videos after each kill like Mandarin in Iron man 3, or maybe you could give a big speech like Bane (in Banes voice). Maybe I'm just excited with Comicon going on, it's got me in a mood.


DHS, NSA take note.  There's another group you can add to your list of potential terrorist - people who read comic books.
 
2013-07-20 07:28:28 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Boojum2k: Bravo Two: Jesus, just how dumb -are- you?

Either a troll account or really farking dumb. Hard to say. Poe's Law in action.

Hey, I was right about Detroit, and at least I can make a logical argument here.  If you want to result to ad hominem attacks, go for it, but my arguments are well grounded here.


Your arguments about Detroit were absurd nonsense that suggested tax payers be on the hook for billions in bad decisions.

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

Tell me, how do you even say that with a straight face? Do you tell rape victims they deserved it because they showed too much ankle? Do you also advocate the state abusing power to punish people arbitrarily?

You, sir, are either a troll, a moron, or have a serious fetish for government control. You do realize that being the lackey of the fascists buys you nothing once they have no more need of you?
 
2013-07-20 07:29:07 PM  
The cops hate your guts and want you to die.  Remember that every time you have to interact with one of these moronic power mad thugs.
 
2013-07-20 07:29:11 PM  
I'm a total jerk and haven't read the thread but I opportune this brief moment to channel Neil Young's and then explode in a cataclysm of despair, wniskey, and unnecessary Onario rock.  And my dying puddle says rock on to to the benevolent hearing
 
2013-07-20 07:29:23 PM  

Shostie: Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.


I have nothing against Stewart Copeland.
 
2013-07-20 07:29:24 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


There's a farkload of overreach.

First, the Heroic Officers are too farking cool to wear badges or uniforms, and yet us civilian sheep are still supposed to know they are Officers and not just random criminals pointing guns at us.

Also, the Marshall involved pretty much threatened her in retaliation for going to the media.
 
2013-07-20 07:30:05 PM  
The cop heard a scream and that is the excuse to go in?  At that point, you have a hostage situation. (He is SURE there is an armed child rapist is inside)  Is this how a hostage situation should be handled?
 
2013-07-20 07:31:09 PM  
If I'm ever whitemanrich, I'm getting ---

Panic Room - immediate safety  - lots of plate steel leading to...

Concealed Exit - exit without being seen/stopped.  Drainage pipe, concrete tunnel, something that gets me away from the house.

Automated Sentry Gun - Anything from pepper spray to skunk extract to blue dye-pack dye.  With small plaque outside of home "This home is protected by automated defenses.  You have been warned."
 
2013-07-20 07:31:14 PM  
Police have been doing this for a while now, it's been the case for a long time that if they hear screaming and they think a person is in 'imminent danger' they will break into a house, and pretty much do whatever else they want.

Cool story sis: years ago some cops got a call from someone in the area of my neighborhood saying they heard a woman screaming. They went door to door, and at the time I was upstairs taking a shower and I had left the downstairs door unlocked. I live in the country, so this is normal. Anyway, the police let themselves into the house. The downstairs lights were out so they had their flashlights on. I heard the noises and strange male voices and thought my house was being broken into. I got out of the shower with my hair still full of soap, armed myself with a pair of scissors and went looking for a phone- or possibly to climb out of a window and get on to the roof. Anyway, I paused to listen to them and figured out they were police, put away the scissors and came down to talk to them (in my towel still), but it was still pretty freaky.

I'm also pretty sure what the person heard was actually this bird called a Night Heron which would hang out in the creek sometimes and made noises like a woman being murdered. This particular bird had a really murder-y sounding cry it made.
 
2013-07-20 07:31:18 PM  

maddan: The cop heard a scream and that is the excuse to go in?  At that point, you have a hostage situation. (He is SURE there is an armed child rapist is inside)  Is this how a hostage situation should be handled?


the cop never said he heard a scream. he said they went in because they wouldn't open the door immediately.
 
2013-07-20 07:31:37 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:

901.19Right of officer to break into building.-

(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be. They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.

I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.


No warrant. No reasonable expectation that the fugitive was in that apartment. No legal entry.

/Not to mention... No "announced his authority and purpose"
 
2013-07-20 07:32:17 PM  

joeshill: If I'm ever whitemanrich, I'm getting ---

Panic Room - immediate safety  - lots of plate steel leading to...

Concealed Exit - exit without being seen/stopped.  Drainage pipe, concrete tunnel, something that gets me away from the house.

Automated Sentry Gun - Anything from pepper spray to skunk extract to blue dye-pack dye.  With small plaque outside of home "This home is protected by automated defenses.  You have been warned."


word
 
2013-07-20 07:32:37 PM  
Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.
 
2013-07-20 07:33:50 PM  
Quick question about "home invasions".

I don't think I ever heard the term before the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping, now it is on local news like a talking point (of course, it is). Do they really happen (other than SWAT team raids)? Of course, the range of criminal minds tend from dumb to dumber (the smarter and better camaflaged ones tend to rewrite their crimes into laws) so it is indeed possible that they would do it, instead of taking their time ransacking an empty place.

Question for fark: should there be a public service message:
Armed Intruders? Don't worry, their your friends the police! All this derp about "home invasions" is just derp, they really only occur [insert rectally derived percentage here] of all armed assaults on homes. The rest are merely police protecting you, especially from you dog of peace.

/realistic?
 
2013-07-20 07:34:06 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: Yup.... and after a few more of these, a group of criminals will kelvar up, raid a place as "police", and they're be able to get in and out without incident, until the local police find out, "hey! that wasn't OUR raid!"


It's been done.  In one case, the dispatcher actually ordered a victim to open the door because the perps identified the were "FBI."  Then, they killed her.

And cases like this, where Officers don't think badges and uniforms make them look badass enough, only make it easier.  Where I live only a minority of Police wear clearly identifiable uniforms, and they're trending towards unmarked vehicles with civilian plates.
 
2013-07-20 07:34:41 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.


the cop never said he heard her scream he said they went in because they didn't open the door right away
 
2013-07-20 07:34:53 PM  

davidphogan: Shostie: Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.

I have nothing against Stewart Copeland.


Really... he's an asshole.
 
2013-07-20 07:36:01 PM  
Citizens should learn how to comply and there won't be any problem!
 
2013-07-20 07:37:23 PM  
Guess you could say these guys weren't....

Justified.

YEEEEAAAH

/only read half the thread, apologies if someone already brought this up
//Raylan would have shot her for sure
 
2013-07-20 07:37:35 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.


Out of curiousity... how do you feel about the search of the apartment after the two inhabitants were outside and handcuffed? (assuming they were not given permission by the lady... which I sincerely doubt they even asked for).
 
2013-07-20 07:37:55 PM  
I'm going to opine that this is a "not the whole story case" and everyone involved is stupid, lying somewhat, but not wholly unjustified.

Also, the police might want to think about setting up a perimeter while they wait ten minutes for a warrant in these situations, even if it's a bit more expensive.  Think of it as an investment in public relations.
 
2013-07-20 07:38:07 PM  
The actual words, the couple say, were, "We're the f------ police; open the f------ door."

That's the point at which I'd have opened fire through the wall.
 
2013-07-20 07:39:02 PM  
fnordfocus
And cases like this, where Officers don't think badges and uniforms make them look badass enough, only make it easier. Where I live only a minority of Police wear clearly identifiable uniforms, and they're trending towards unmarked vehicles with civilian plates.


The complete unmarked vehicles with civilian plates is used alot during prime time DWI hours to find drunk people.
 
2013-07-20 07:39:32 PM  
scifiinterfaces.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-20 07:40:04 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.


And yet the officer stated he entered because they didn't open up proving the guy was in there, after refusing to produce ID when asked, not because he heard screaming. Funny the things you learn when you RTFA.

/but, with your head so far up all things big government's ass, I can see how reading the article could be hard.
 
2013-07-20 07:41:24 PM  
The police are not here to protect us, they are here to arrest us.  They've got to keep those private prisons full.
 
2013-07-20 07:41:28 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.

Out of curiousity... how do you feel about the search of the apartment after the two inhabitants were outside and handcuffed? (assuming they were not given permission by the lady... which I sincerely doubt they even asked for).


That I don't necessarily agree with.  Once the two identified themselves and were found not to be criminals, in peril, or the guy they were looking for, I'm not quite sure what the justification for searching the apartment would be if the two told them they were the only ones home.

On a similar note, I don't agree with the house to house searches that happened after the Boston bombing.

I'm in no way advocating for a police state or for the police to have the unimpeded right to enter your property, I just think that the particular case in the article could possibly have been legit depending on why the officer entered in the first place.
 
2013-07-20 07:41:38 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: Quick question about "home invasions".

I don't think I ever heard the term before the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping, now it is on local news like a talking point (of course, it is). Do they really happen (other than SWAT team raids)?


Yes. Obviously a non-neutral source, but it links to real news stories.
 
2013-07-20 07:41:55 PM  
Lessee: "open up its the Police!"
And I believe them because...
 
2013-07-20 07:42:18 PM  
Good thing the bad guys aren't allowed to say, "Open up, I'm the police".
 
2013-07-20 07:42:48 PM  

Enemabag Jones: But I do remember some quote about one of the primary reasons the United States had to stop the Vietnam war. Something about running out of of people from socially marginalized economic classes to draft. When the white middle class sees a problem, then it gets handled.


And the government, big business, and Wall Street have been doing there best to abolish the middle class for the last decade.

Coincidence?
 
2013-07-20 07:43:00 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


You're either a troll or a farking idiot. The moron cop, without identifying himself, pointed a gun at her head. And because some nut job was pointing a gun, with a laser sight mind you, at her head she started screaming and got her gun. And her screaming is now justification for them breaking in and shooting her. Only by the good grace and extreme restraint shown by the officer she wasn't shot and she should be kissing that officer's feet every morning thanking him she is still alive.

You sir are a farking moron.
 
2013-07-20 07:43:04 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


Fascist
 
2013-07-20 07:43:26 PM  

Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.


These threads are 99% derp from both sides. Do you expect to reach anyone with this post? :)
 
2013-07-20 07:43:36 PM  
Bravo Two:

And yet the officer stated he entered because they didn't open up proving the guy was in there

It's possible he heard the screaming as well and that's one of the reasons he was concerned that no one opened the door.  We don't know every detail of how it happened, so there's no reasons to assume that the officers actions were malicious.  Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.
 
2013-07-20 07:44:03 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)


Did the police show any evidence of caring about a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at he? No, they did not. The only concern for safety expressed by the only policeman interviewed was for himself. This is indeed a fine piece of trollwork but leave it at that, TT. Your premise does not stand up to the least little bit of examination.
 
2013-07-20 07:44:41 PM  

aerojockey: I'm going to opine that this is a "not the whole story case" and everyone involved is stupid, lying somewhat, but not wholly unjustified.

Also, the police might want to think about setting up a perimeter while they wait ten minutes for a warrant in these situations, even if it's a bit more expensive.  Think of it as an investment in public relations.


I always assume this is the case... and if it's something I care about... I go searching for other sources. Right now... everything I find refers to the linked story as the source... that's a potential red flag.

That said... even if just the words in quotes attributed to the douche officer are correct... and everything else is made up... there's some serious explaining to do. Dude said a lot of wrong things. I'm hopeful that some other "news" outlets will pick this up and investigate further... but we'll see.
 
2013-07-20 07:44:43 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: vudutek: TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

SO, all the cops need to do is laser-sight the occupants to get someone to scream, and warrants are no longer required? And you seem to be ok with this?

The courts have long held that warrantless searches are legal if there are exigent circumstances, such as the officer's belief that someone is in mortal danger.

The officer at the door did not likely know that the woman was screaming because she possibly saw another officer through the window.  To his knowledge he was in an area where there was a reported fugitive, and there was a woman screaming in terror inside of her apartment.  It was his duty to protect the public safety to enter that apartment to make sure she wasn't being murdered, raped, etc.

Everything that came afterward seems to be SOP because there was a gun pointed at the officer and someone else in the apartment who (as far as the officer knew) may have been responsible for why she was screaming.


The cop MADE the woman scream. To put it another way, cop stands outside and shoots someone inside. He now gets to enter the residence because "shots have been fired inside". No, the law doesn't work that way.
 
2013-07-20 07:44:47 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

And yet the officer stated he entered because they didn't open up proving the guy was in there

It's possible he heard the screaming as well and that's one of the reasons he was concerned that no one opened the door.  We don't know every detail of how it happened, so there's no reasons to assume that the officers actions were malicious.  Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.


Uhhhh, what benefit of the doubt. He clearly stated it himself in the interview. God, you -are- a moron.
 
2013-07-20 07:46:02 PM  

Bravo Two: TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

And yet the officer stated he entered because they didn't open up proving the guy was in there

It's possible he heard the screaming as well and that's one of the reasons he was concerned that no one opened the door.  We don't know every detail of how it happened, so there's no reasons to assume that the officers actions were malicious.  Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Uhhhh, what benefit of the doubt. He clearly stated it himself in the interview. God, you -are- a moron.


One statement based on one interview in one article does not the full story make.
 
2013-07-20 07:46:08 PM  

Smackledorfer: Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.

These threads are 99% derp from both sides. Do you expect to reach anyone with this post? :)


Personally, I'm okay with this. Better that a hundred guilty men go free than an innocent be harmed.
 
2013-07-20 07:46:12 PM  

bhcompy: Cops aren't your friends or your enemies, they're just strangers with guns.  How do you treat strangers with guns that you meet?


I've met plenty of strangers with guns at the range.

One or two were dumb enough I though they might shoot me by accident, but I didn't think any of them would kill me deliberately.  I can't say the same about Cops I've met.
 
2013-07-20 07:46:24 PM  
The problem is society WANTS and NEEDS assholes like these to be cops. We need the jerk A- type personality. We all have a given set of personality traits that make us who we are. We can't just switch our being based on certain circumstances we encounter.
This asshole is a US Marshall on a serious fugitive hunt. This event is a societal and law enforcement paradox.

Ask yourself this? can someone with a demure, laidback, non aggressive, really easy going personality be effective at his job? Do you even want someone like this to hunt down really bad people? The answer is NO we actually want and expect assholes to be cops because ironically by definition to catch assholes you're most likely one yourself.
 
2013-07-20 07:46:48 PM  

Bacontastesgood: Maybe someday the prick cop will have a warrantless knock on his door with a tac team and a red dot on his forehead.


God does sometimes serve up that kind of ironic justice.
 
2013-07-20 07:47:28 PM  

Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.


might?
have you seen a teaparty rally?
:D
 
2013-07-20 07:47:34 PM  

Smackledorfer: Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.

These threads are 99% derp from both sides. Do you expect to reach anyone with this post? :)


*sigh*
Hope springs eternal. Hey, I reached YOU.

Anyway, I'm going to a seminar next weekend where we'll be talking about stuff like this; I need to keep my mind and rhetoric sharp.
 
2013-07-20 07:48:01 PM  
Wow, the paranoia in this thread from otherwise reasonable farkers is palpable.

If you're this scared of the police, then maybe they should be abolished.
 
2013-07-20 07:48:05 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two: TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

And yet the officer stated he entered because they didn't open up proving the guy was in there

It's possible he heard the screaming as well and that's one of the reasons he was concerned that no one opened the door.  We don't know every detail of how it happened, so there's no reasons to assume that the officers actions were malicious.  Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Uhhhh, what benefit of the doubt. He clearly stated it himself in the interview. God, you -are- a moron.

One statement based on one interview in one article does not the full story make.


When it is a self admission by the officer who committed the act it is.

This was not a third party witness. This was not the victim. This was the cop himself stating his justification for bursting in. I'm sure if he had done it based on screaming, he would have said so. Take the cop's dick out of your mouth. Cops are not our friends, and they state their intentions clearly over and over again.
 
2013-07-20 07:48:20 PM  
This wouldn't be necessary if the police didn't have to worry about citizens with guns. Without that threat, the police could have been in and out quickly. You GunNuttersTMare going to get some innocent people killed.
 
2013-07-20 07:48:37 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.


Fyi to those so upset at tutetibilmperes here:

If he is trolling he managed to snag you all with a bunch of if-then statements whose 'tgen' you are trying to apply to situations which you disagree that the 'if' was present. Are you really all this stupid?

Farkers, once cops are mentioned they get so emotional that the most basic of logical structures is beyond their understanding. You guys get as dumb as the tea party when it comes to these threads.
 
2013-07-20 07:49:05 PM  

Weaver95: I have friends of mine who believe themselves to be fierce conservatives and believe that government should be extremely limited....and yet they blindly support the war on drugs and the war on terror, believing that the bill of rights is an impediment and that we can trust law enforcement not to abuse it's authority over us. I personally don't understand their mindset but there you go.


The one that gets me is the same people that don't think the government can handle a sewer replacement job without farking it up, totally believe the government can try and put people to death without farking it up.  Reminds me of stuff I've read about life in the Soviet Gulag.  There were always these true believers/good communists who thought somehow it was all a big mistake they were locked up and at some point the powers that be were going to realize this and they would get out.

I have a personal rule and every time I ignore it I get burned. If you see someone do something to someone else, just wait and they'll do it to you to eventually.
 
2013-07-20 07:49:44 PM  

Bravo Two: Smackledorfer: Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.

These threads are 99% derp from both sides. Do you expect to reach anyone with this post? :)

Personally, I'm okay with this. Better that a hundred guilty men go free than an innocent be harmed.


I'd be OK with it as well, with an exception being made for situations in which there is believed to be a victim in danger inside.  I'm also fully onboard with rather seeing one hundred guilty go free that one innocent convicted.

I'm all for checks and balances against the system, but I'd rather take the compassionate position and not assume that something was done out of malice, and that there's always more to the story than what we hear in media blurbs.
 
2013-07-20 07:50:13 PM  

IlGreven: Wow, the paranoia in this thread from otherwise reasonable farkers is palpable.

If you're this scared of the police, then maybe they should be abolished.


I've been saying that for years, along with the war on drugs.
 
2013-07-20 07:50:29 PM  

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: FTFA:Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

That sounds like a threat to me.I have a feeling that if there's a lawsuit, there might be a one-car "accident" or she might get pulled over and a bag of meth or coke is suddenly going to materialize in her car.


I'd agree with that assessment.
When I had cause to sue the local police, my car ended up being vandalized twice within days of filing the suit, and I kept getting weird phone calls all hours of the night.

I ended up leaving the area until the suit was settled, out of fears that I'd end up with an unexplained sack of meth in the car, or worse.
 
2013-07-20 07:50:34 PM  

Smackledorfer: TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.

Fyi to those so upset at tutetibilmperes here:

If he is trolling he managed to snag you all with a bunch of if-then statements whose 'tgen' you are trying to apply to situations which you disagree that the 'if' was present. Are you really all this stupid?

Farkers, once cops are mentioned they get so emotional that the most basic of logical structures is beyond their understanding. You guys get as dumb as the tea party when it comes to these threads.


Have you been chewing on lead paint?
 
2013-07-20 07:50:57 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: Quick question about "home invasions".

I don't think I ever heard the term before the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping, now it is on local news like a talking point (of course, it is). Do they really happen (other than SWAT team raids)?


Google News "Home invasion"
 
2013-07-20 07:51:28 PM  
I bet prior to this encounter she was another water carrier for authority.  As is most of the people in our country -until they have something like this hit close to home.

The prevalence for these types of encounters correlates highly along class, with the lower classes seeing it much more frequently.  Those behind gated communities will likely never have to worry about it.  And that is by design.

But it's not class warfare. /snark
 
2013-07-20 07:54:25 PM  

JerkyMeat: TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

Fascist


"Fascism."
 
2013-07-20 07:56:22 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: Quick question about "home invasions".

I don't think I ever heard the term before the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping,


I think the phase was coined some time in the mid or late 90's but the act itself is even older than the Manson Tate/LaBianca killings.
 
2013-07-20 07:56:43 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Smackledorfer: Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.

These threads are 99% derp from both sides. Do you expect to reach anyone with this post? :)

*sigh*
Hope springs eternal. Hey, I reached YOU.

Anyway, I'm going to a seminar next weekend where we'll be talking about stuff like this; I need to keep my mind and rhetoric sharp.


That should be fun. No knock warrants are stupid and some day people will realize drugs aren't a big deal. Exigent circumstances will always exist, though obviously 'nobody let us in' really shouldn't be considered a valid reason to enter.
 
2013-07-20 07:57:36 PM  

See You Next Tuesday: ThatDarkFellow: If Obama had a pack of thugs destroying civil liberty they would look like these gentleman

If Fark had a village idiot he would type something about Obama out of the clear blue.


So you hold Obama completely unaccountable for the continued police over reach in our nation?

Son, you need Jesus.
 
2013-07-20 07:58:17 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two: Smackledorfer: Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.

These threads are 99% derp from both sides. Do you expect to reach anyone with this post? :)

Personally, I'm okay with this. Better that a hundred guilty men go free than an innocent be harmed.

I'd be OK with it as well, with an exception being made for situations in which there is believed to be a victim in danger inside.  I'm also fully onboard with rather seeing one hundred guilty go free that one innocent convicted.

I'm all for checks and balances against the system, but I'd rather take the compassionate position and not assume that something was done out of malice, and that there's always more to the story than what we hear in media blurbs.


Nothing was done out of malice, it was done out of an overblown sense of authority. The cop had to get his man and used every excuse to find him, legal or not. These people got caught in the way when they didn't immediately comply.

The problem is not malice on behalf of the cops, most act this way because they believe its for the common good. The problem is that they exercise their authority far beyond their legal mandate, doing harm to the citizenry at large for dubious gain, and have come to expect a synabulent public who will go along with it. Cops, like politicians, are there to serve the people and act only when they are given cause by way of a warrant or direct threat. Exigent circumstances are the slippery slope between having actual probable cause and merely having to come up with a decent excuse.
 
2013-07-20 07:58:20 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: The article states that she was never arrested, and while it doesn't explicitly state that he wasn't, it say that they just handcuffed him for half an hour while they searched then released him, I'm assume that he was just detained as well and not arrested.


That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.
 
2013-07-20 07:58:37 PM  
fark cops; that is all.
 
2013-07-20 07:59:29 PM  

Smackledorfer: Gyrfalcon: Smackledorfer: Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.

These threads are 99% derp from both sides. Do you expect to reach anyone with this post? :)

*sigh*
Hope springs eternal. Hey, I reached YOU.

Anyway, I'm going to a seminar next weekend where we'll be talking about stuff like this; I need to keep my mind and rhetoric sharp.

That should be fun. No knock warrants are stupid and some day people will realize drugs aren't a big deal. Exigent circumstances will always exist, though obviously 'nobody let us in' really shouldn't be considered a valid reason to enter.


Nor should "smells like marijuana" or "I heard something."
 
2013-07-20 07:59:29 PM  

Hobodeluxe: the cop never said he heard her scream he said they went in because they didn't open the door right away


Strangely enough, the cops are forbidden from entering your property without a warrant. Period.
The only exception is exigent circumstances. 
They SAW the bad guy run in.
They thought your were going to destroy evidence. (which I always thought was lame)
Clear and present danger to kids in the house.

"Never heard her scream."
Um, no problem, just replay your audio recording and video recording of the event for the judge.
You dont have one? No problem. You are guilty of breaking and entering. Go directly to jail.
TADA

problem solved
/we are so farked in america. those AHOLES biatching about Obama are happy with the police acting like this? WHY???? AHOLESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
 
2013-07-20 07:59:45 PM  
As one of the few people in the thread absolutely condemning the Boston PD's actions and pointing out that they had no warrant and they didn't have probable cause to believe that the suspect was in ALL of the houses they searched (warrants must be for a PARTICULAR place and person, as specified by the 4th Amendment), and someone who got just lambasted like I was supporting the terror suspects for saying that I didn't think the 4th Amendment should be suspended all willy nilly just because it's an "emergency"... fark all of you who said it wouldn't happen again, when the cops bust into your home, I hope they shoot your dogs and leave you traumatized... it's what you deserve for supporting this kind of asshattery of the highest degree.
 
2013-07-20 08:00:36 PM  

fnordfocus: TuteTibiImperes: The article states that she was never arrested, and while it doesn't explicitly state that he wasn't, it say that they just handcuffed him for half an hour while they searched then released him, I'm assume that he was just detained as well and not arrested.

That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.


Lying once again?

Of course you are.
 
2013-07-20 08:00:44 PM  

namatad: Hobodeluxe: the cop never said he heard her scream he said they went in because they didn't open the door right away

Strangely enough, the cops are forbidden from entering your property without a warrant. Period.
The only exception is exigent circumstances. 
They SAW the bad guy run in.
They thought your were going to destroy evidence. (which I always thought was lame)
Clear and present danger to kids in the house.

"Never heard her scream."
Um, no problem, just replay your audio recording and video recording of the event for the judge.
You dont have one? No problem. You are guilty of breaking and entering. Go directly to jail.
TADA

problem solved
/we are so farked in america. those AHOLES biatching about Obama are happy with the police acting like this? WHY???? AHOLESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


I for one am not okay with it, and also biatch about Obama, the NSA, etc.
 
2013-07-20 08:00:57 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: davidphogan: Shostie: Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.

I have nothing against Stewart Copeland.

Really... he's an asshole.


I don't know much about him other than the fact that he's a fantastic drummer.

But he does come off as a bit of a dick.
 
2013-07-20 08:02:30 PM  
You get what you (don't) vote for, America.
 
2013-07-20 08:02:59 PM  
This is why I have claymore anti-personnel mines built into all the external corners and both sides of all the entry doors of my house facing outward. Anybody out there playing cowboy with my constitutional rights ... POP gets it.

/They're also installed in the rear quarter panels and doors of my vehicles.
//Haha, LOL, just kidding. This is fark, right?
 
2013-07-20 08:03:21 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: Do they really happen (other than SWAT team raids)?


Short answer, yes, there was a rash of home invasion type robberies (mostly targeting seniors) in the 90s when the term was coined. They're not making the news very much these days, but they're still apparently happening from time to time.
 
2013-07-20 08:03:22 PM  
But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

Exercise of civil rights does not constitute probable cause. Remember that, folks.
 
2013-07-20 08:04:18 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.


cops have to justify having all the swat team jobs.   If not enough people are robbing banks, they need to just that swat gear elsewhere.   Use it or lose it.. welcome to Govt spending.
 
2013-07-20 08:04:34 PM  

Enemabag Jones: The complete unmarked vehicles with civilian plates is used alot during prime time DWI hours to find drunk people.


And also leads to dead civilians who pull over for fake cops because we've been conditioned that Police Officers don't need to identify themselves.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_9430905

Plus, I just saw a murdered out Dodge Durango police vehicle with civilian plates.  It's designed to stand out, not blend in, and it's a waste of quite a bit of taxpayer money.
 
2013-07-20 08:04:57 PM  
I find this interesting that this encounter happened after 8PM and there were 30 officers involved, how much overtime is that?

IMHO, I suspect something had to be done or federal overtime reimbursement may have been refused, so you get this.
 
2013-07-20 08:05:02 PM  

cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.


But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....
 
2013-07-20 08:05:05 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


Sorry but the US marshall didn't say any of that.  What he SAID was that because they didn't immediately open the door, the suspect must be inside.  The marshal violated their rights to privacy and seized them without a warrant.  I see dollar signs in their future.
 
2013-07-20 08:05:23 PM  
One troll. One thread. One victory.
i18.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-20 08:06:40 PM  
is this the thread where I say fark the police?

/ducks
 
2013-07-20 08:09:10 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: This is why I have claymore anti-personnel mines built into all the external corners and both sides of all the entry doors of my house facing outward. Anybody out there playing cowboy with my constitutional rights ... POP gets it.

/They're also installed in the rear quarter panels and doors of my vehicles.
//Haha, LOL, just kidding. This is fark, right?


I would assume you're kidding. Otherwise the meter readers and random raccoons would be constantly blowing up the sides of your house.
 
2013-07-20 08:09:42 PM  

jso2897: One troll. One thread. One victory.


The sad thing is, I'm convinced he's not trolling, just that stuffed up the law's ass.