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(Herald Tribune (SW Florida))   Remember those warrantless door to door searches everyone was okay with in Boston because it was a unique circumstance and other police agencies would never try it? Welcome to the new America   (heraldtribune.com) divider line 592
    More: Asinine, Louise Goldsberry, United States Marshals Service, police raid, home invasions  
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25525 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jul 2013 at 6:02 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



592 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-07-20 03:06:04 PM
Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.
 
2013-07-20 03:16:37 PM
I like how the cop thinks that since he didn't shoot her she shouldn't be going to the press

/Christ what an asshole
 
2013-07-20 03:18:28 PM
FTFA:Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

That sounds like a threat to me.I have a feeling that if there's a lawsuit, there might be a one-car "accident" or she might get pulled over and a bag of meth or coke is suddenly going to materialize in her car.
 
2013-07-20 03:23:43 PM

NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.


Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.
 
2013-07-20 03:27:57 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.


what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.
 
2013-07-20 03:28:29 PM
Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

F*ck this guy!
 
2013-07-20 03:35:31 PM

ManateeGag: I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.


That's because you know how to act white. And don't say you don't know what I'm talking about.

The police aren't friends, and they're not to be trusted.
 
2013-07-20 03:40:24 PM
"The tip was never about Goldsberry's apartment, specifically, Wiggins acknowledged. It was about the complex.

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said."


Aaannnnnnd, that's a federal lawsuit won right there. The law is pretty crystal clear in this particular area.
 
2013-07-20 03:41:55 PM
"I went above and beyond," Wiggins said. "I have to go home at night."

No you didn't, you giant back of dicks, and one day you won't be going home at night because someone will shoot you, and you'll probably be to blame.
 
2013-07-20 03:42:16 PM
Remember the good old days of " If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"?
 
2013-07-20 03:51:56 PM

ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


Let's play pictionary

4.bp.blogspot.comwww.dntdesigns.co.uk
 
2013-07-20 04:11:30 PM

MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]


whitebread world?
 
2013-07-20 04:15:17 PM

Igor Jakovsky: MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]

whitebread world?


Wonderplanet
 
2013-07-20 04:15:17 PM
Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.
 
2013-07-20 04:15:53 PM

LordOfThePings: Igor Jakovsky: MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]

whitebread world?

Wonderplanet


Breadglobe!
 
2013-07-20 04:19:47 PM

Shostie: LordOfThePings: Igor Jakovsky: MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]

whitebread world?

Wonderplanet

Breadglobe!


I thought it was Bread slices iPhone wallpaper.
 
2013-07-20 04:22:05 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Shostie: LordOfThePings: Igor Jakovsky: MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]

whitebread world?

Wonderplanet

Breadglobe!

I thought it was Bread slices iPhone wallpaper.


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-07-20 04:31:39 PM
I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.
 
2013-07-20 04:32:32 PM
What's new about this? 50 years ago they'd both be dead.  And the cops would have been looking for marijuana, not kiddie rapists.  Get some f*cking perspective.
 
2013-07-20 04:33:46 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

F*ck this guy!


And this, too.
 
2013-07-20 04:34:41 PM

Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.


But at least we'll all be armed to the teeth, so that should play out smoothly.
 
2013-07-20 04:34:48 PM
Well, being scared of an external threat is better than fighting amongst ourselves I suppose
 
2013-07-20 04:37:18 PM

Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.


words of wisdom.
 
2013-07-20 04:38:14 PM

shanrick: Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.

words of wisdom.


Meta-paranoia is the best kind of paranoia.
 
2013-07-20 04:40:48 PM
When I was a kid, I was brainwashed to love the militarization of police. So really, how can I object now?
 
2013-07-20 04:41:12 PM

thamike: What's new about this? 50 years ago they'd both be dead.  And the cops would have been looking for marijuana Communists, not kiddie rapists.  Get some f*cking perspective.


Fixed for historical accuracy.
 
2013-07-20 04:43:56 PM

thamike: shanrick: Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.

words of wisdom.

Meta-paranoia is the best kind of paranoia.


I have friends of mine who believe themselves to be fierce conservatives and believe that government should be extremely limited....and yet they blindly support the war on drugs and the war on terror, believing that the bill of rights is an impediment and that we can trust law enforcement not to abuse it's authority over us.  I personally don't understand their mindset but there you go.
 
2013-07-20 04:46:50 PM
Wow... that's pretty farked up.

Two things I took away from this story...

Unless that is a REALLY old picture... that's a pretty decent looking 59.
Cops are assholes.
 
2013-07-20 04:59:45 PM

Weaver95: I have friends of mine who believe themselves to be fierce conservatives


I have friends who believe themselves to be rockstars... one who believes himself to be a race car driver... and one who believes herself to be a professional poker player.

Doesn't mean that they are. Just means that we both have stupid friends.
 
2013-07-20 05:03:02 PM

Weaver95: I have friends of mine who believe themselves to be fierce conservatives and believe that government should be extremely limited....and yet they blindly support the war on drugs and the war on terror, believing that the bill of rights is an impediment and that we can trust law enforcement not to abuse it's authority over us.  I personally don't understand their mindset but there you go.


This is my entire extended family, and they wonder why I don't visit.  When I tell them, as an ex-cop, that the balance of power is out of control they say it is because I am just a liberal Northerner.

God this country is full of idiots, and I am related to most of them apparently.
 
2013-07-20 05:08:53 PM
If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.
 
2013-07-20 05:09:29 PM

cman: Well, being scared of an external threat is better than fighting amongst ourselves I suppose


Adrian Veidt certainly thought so.
 
2013-07-20 05:16:40 PM

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:


I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

SO, all the cops need to do is laser-sight the occupants to get someone to scream, and warrants are no longer required? And you seem to be ok with this?
 
2013-07-20 05:17:05 PM

TuteTibiImperes: She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


i660.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-20 05:19:27 PM

TuteTibiImperes: I don't see a police over-reach in this. If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger. Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon. She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


8/10

It was originally 7/10... but I added a point for length.

/giggity
 
2013-07-20 05:20:36 PM

TuteTibiImperes: I don't see a police over-reach in this.


then go back to sleep.  you won't understand the rest of this conversation anyway.
 
2013-07-20 05:22:30 PM
I'm just posting in here before I get called out.
 
2013-07-20 05:27:52 PM

vudutek: TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

SO, all the cops need to do is laser-sight the occupants to get someone to scream, and warrants are no longer required? And you seem to be ok with this?


The courts have long held that warrantless searches are legal if there are exigent circumstances, such as the officer's belief that someone is in mortal danger.

The officer at the door did not likely know that the woman was screaming because she possibly saw another officer through the window.  To his knowledge he was in an area where there was a reported fugitive, and there was a woman screaming in terror inside of her apartment.  It was his duty to protect the public safety to enter that apartment to make sure she wasn't being murdered, raped, etc.

Everything that came afterward seems to be SOP because there was a gun pointed at the officer and someone else in the apartment who (as far as the officer knew) may have been responsible for why she was screaming.
 
2013-07-20 05:28:52 PM

TuteTibiImperes: vudutek: TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

SO, all the cops need to do is laser-sight the occupants to get someone to scream, and warrants are no longer required? And you seem to be ok with this?

The courts have long held that warrantless searches are legal if there are exigent circumstances, such as the officer's belief that someone is in mortal danger.

The officer at the door did not likely know that the woman was screaming because she possibly saw another officer through the window.  To his knowledge he was in an area where there was a reported fugitive, and there was a woman screaming in terror inside of her apartment.  It was his duty to protect the public safety to enter that apartment to make sure she wasn't being murdered, raped, etc.

Everything that came afterward seems to be SOP because there was a gun pointed at the officer and someone else in the apartment who (as far as the officer knew) may have been responsible for why she was screaming.


um...no.
 
2013-07-20 05:30:23 PM
Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.
 
2013-07-20 05:33:03 PM
Do they have a lower success rate of catching child rapists in the UK, where the cops don't go around pointing their hand-penises at everyone? Somehow I suspect they do ok.
 
2013-07-20 05:36:42 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.


so all the cops gotta do is make up some bullshiat about exigent circumstances and you're good with them violating your rights?
 
2013-07-20 05:39:45 PM

Weaver95: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

so all the cops gotta do is make up some bullshiat about exigent circumstances and you're good with them violating your rights?


I wouldn't be cool with them making something up, no.  In this case however she admitted herself she was screaming her lungs out.  Ideally in the case of an illegal search where the officer stated that he heard something/smelled something that was evidence of a crime there would be some witnesses to back that story up and you would be able to have the search thrown out in court if it came to that.

Even better, we could expect officers of the law to not make shiat up (there will always be some bad apples, but from my experience the majority aren't corrupt).
 
2013-07-20 05:40:34 PM

flucto: Do they have a lower success rate of catching child rapists in the UK, where the cops don't go around pointing their hand-penises at everyone? Somehow I suspect they do ok.


i.imgur.com

Oh hai, someone was asking about me?

/now with even more friends
 
2013-07-20 05:40:34 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.


Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.
 
2013-07-20 05:42:29 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.


Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.
 
2013-07-20 05:49:48 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.


Marshal didn't say that.

Paraphrased: Looking for a fugitive on a tip... every other neighbor opened their door... these people didn't. That told me the fugitive was probably there, so I entered the apartment.

Not cool.
 
2013-07-20 05:59:52 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.

Marshal didn't say that.

Paraphrased: Looking for a fugitive on a tip... every other neighbor opened their door... these people didn't. That told me the fugitive was probably there, so I entered the apartment.

Not cool.


I'll agree to that.  If he didn't hear any screaming or have reason to believe the people inside were under mortal danger, there wouldn't be a legitimate reason to enter the apartment.
 
2013-07-20 06:01:36 PM
Yawn. This happens all the time in black/ or Hispanic or poverty stricken areas. Botched drug raids. Mistaken identities. Busting into homes of innocent elderly people and slamming them to the floor just for 'training purposes'.

It's never newsworthy because people don't care.
 
2013-07-20 06:02:16 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.

Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.


I think you're failing to understand what elicited the screams in the first place. They could've thrown in a smoke grenade and the other cops go barging in saying, "We saw smoke!"

That seems OK to you?
 
2013-07-20 06:04:37 PM

TuteTibiImperes: I don't see a police over-reach in this. If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger. Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon. She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


Absolutely this.  What if she was a siren?  Her carelessness could have seduced the cops and then the streets would have fewer cops and then the Greek gods would come marching right the fark down.  And believe me, you don't want to live in America which is controlled by crazy theocrats.  Get Ares in charge and this country will just start going to war with everyone.  Oh wait, Taxbongo already did this.  Thanks, Taxbongo.
 
2013-07-20 06:04:52 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: TuteTibiImperes: Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.

Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.

I think you're failing to understand what elicited the screams in the first place. They could've thrown in a smoke grenade and the other cops go barging in saying, "We saw smoke!"

That seems OK to you?


If they knew the screaming was because of the other cops' actions it would be wrong.  If they believed it was because of the fugitive, a domestic dispute, or some other reason unrelated to their presence, it wouldn't be wrong.
 
2013-07-20 06:07:12 PM

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


...Magnificent!
 
2013-07-20 06:07:15 PM

vudutek: Remember the good old days of " If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"?


I think it's become more of "If it's not you in trouble, it's nothing to worry about. The person in trouble probably deserved it."
 
2013-07-20 06:10:05 PM
Well except for the fact that the situation was nothing like Boston, and the cops were US Marshals, and likely to get in a shiatload of trouble over this, yeah, I can see where Subby is right to be concerned about the similarities and the dangers of an incipient police state.
 
2013-07-20 06:11:18 PM
People were okay with the Boston thing? I thought they were just trying to troll.
 
2013-07-20 06:13:15 PM
Welcome to the United Police States of America.
 
2013-07-20 06:14:18 PM
But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door.

That's some fine police work there.
 
2013-07-20 06:14:47 PM
What is it with you people and your obsessions with 'freedom'?
The USA is one of the least 'free' places in the first world, we're just sold an illusion that we're free in order to placate us and keep us on the same side as the authorities.
Either wake up and smell the mushroom tea, and in the process accept that you're not 'free', or keep drinking the Kool Aid, but please stop harping on about civil liberties or losses of freedom.
The police are employed to control you, let them do that or pay the consequences.
 
2013-07-20 06:15:25 PM
Yup.... and after a few more of these, a group of criminals will kelvar up, raid a place as "police", and they're be able to get in and out without incident, until the local police find out, "hey! that wasn't OUR raid!"
 
2013-07-20 06:15:47 PM
If you're really outraged about this you should kill the police officer they named in the article. Otherwise it's just a bunch of complaining that won't lead to anything.
 
2013-07-20 06:15:51 PM

Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.


It's not the culture. It's the shiat-stains who have their boots on your throat and force you to pay them for your enslavement.
 
2013-07-20 06:15:53 PM

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


I've bolded the issue. The cops should have done nothing until figuring out exactly what was going on.
 
2013-07-20 06:16:35 PM
You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.
 
2013-07-20 06:17:10 PM
More and more people are packing these days and if cops keep doing this shiat they're going to end up getting shot by people standing their ground to protect themselves and their property. If you're going to treat all citizens as armed and dangerous criminals you can't expect citizens to not treat all intruders as armed and dangerous criminals.
 
2013-07-20 06:17:46 PM
Obama will quickly nip this problem in the bud!
 
2013-07-20 06:17:49 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: People were okay with the Boston thing? I thought they were just trying to troll.


There were many on here that were fine with it.  It was...odd.  I don't think they were trolling either.
 
2013-07-20 06:17:53 PM
20 goto 10;
 
2013-07-20 06:18:26 PM

vudutek: Remember the good old days of " If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"?


When was that?
 
2013-07-20 06:18:38 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Weaver95: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

so all the cops gotta do is make up some bullshiat about exigent circumstances and you're good with them violating your rights?

I wouldn't be cool with them making something up, no.  In this case however she admitted herself she was screaming her lungs out.  Ideally in the case of an illegal search where the officer stated that he heard something/smelled something that was evidence of a crime there would be some witnesses to back that story up and you would be able to have the search thrown out in court if it came to that.

Even better, we could expect officers of the law to not make shiat up (there will always be some bad apples, but from my experience the majority aren't corrupt).


If somebody started banging on my door, identifying themselves as "the farking police" seconds after some dude in a hunting vest just scared the shiat out of me in my own home, I sure as hell wouldn't let in the supposed "farking police officer." The timing is just too convenient.
 
2013-07-20 06:19:26 PM

you are a puppet: If you're really outraged about this you should kill the police officer they named in the article. Otherwise it's just a bunch of complaining that won't lead to anything.


I haven't even killed ZImmerman yet!
 
2013-07-20 06:19:33 PM

TuteTibiImperes: She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


THEY are lucky THEY didn't get shot. Her home, bro. Her farking home.
 
2013-07-20 06:19:59 PM
Matt Wiggins, US Marshall Asshole-of-theYear.

Deserves to lose his job and his pension for that kind of behavior and poor judgment.

And the two victims of his brutal and illegal assault deserve to be made wealthy at his employer's expense to discourage this kind of thing in the future.
 
2013-07-20 06:20:18 PM

I_C_Weener: The My Little Pony Killer: People were okay with the Boston thing? I thought they were just trying to troll.

There were many on here that were fine with it.  It was...odd.  I don't think they were trolling either.


I just assumed that they were really bad at it, what with calling the rest of us "pussies" for not wanting our homes violated.
 
2013-07-20 06:20:26 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.

Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.


It wasn't "no one answers when police identified themselves" it was a person inside the apartment responding to a voice through the door that claimed they were the police by asking for some identification yo be shown. Any law enforcement officer that has a problem with showing identification needs to be released to find another line of work.
 
2013-07-20 06:20:53 PM

tricycleracer: But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door.

That's some fine police work there.


anyone who runs is a criminal.  Anyone who stands still is a well disciplined criminal.
 
2013-07-20 06:21:02 PM

edmo: More and more people are packing these days and if cops keep doing this shiat they're going to end up getting shot by people standing their ground to protect themselves and their property. If you're going to treat all citizens as armed and dangerous criminals you can't expect citizens to not treat all intruders as armed and dangerous criminals.


A bunch of armed cops versus one armed person is always going to end up with the civilian dying though, like the old lady here in Atlanta about a decade ago. Not just because of strength in numbers but who is more prepared for a shootout, the frightened homeowner or the assault crew on the offensive?
 
2013-07-20 06:21:48 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.

Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.


The police may not create the exigent circumstances, even if they are unknowingly acting in coordination. (Who is to say the weren't doing so knowingly?)

I believe this was recently decided at at least the federal appeals level if not at the Supreme Court. (But since I'm using my phone I'm going to be a poor poster and not provide a citation)

IMHO this guy is lucky to be going home alive. The paramilitant mindset of the police is not only dangerous for us but is also dangerous for them. Sooner or later one of these guys is going to break down the wrong door and be on the losing end of a rifle wielded under a Castle or Stand Your Ground law.
 
2013-07-20 06:22:30 PM

phenn: TuteTibiImperes: She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

THEY are lucky THEY didn't get shot. Her home, bro. Her farking home.


Yup, she's just standing her ground under what she reasonably believes to be armed thugs trying to break in.

/hey, she wasn't far off
//unlike Officer Gunboner
 
2013-07-20 06:22:50 PM
I certainly hope she's going to sue the f--- out of this guy and his department.
 
2013-07-20 06:23:18 PM

Hector Remarkable: you are a puppet: If you're really outraged about this you should kill the police officer they named in the article. Otherwise it's just a bunch of complaining that won't lead to anything.

I haven't even killed ZImmerman yet!


Just saying, if someone started killing all the police involved in these raids it would be really cool, especially if you released little videos after each kill like Mandarin in Iron man 3, or maybe you could give a big speech like Bane (in Banes voice). Maybe I'm just excited with Comicon going on, it's got me in a mood. Got my facial hair looking like Wolverine right now. Couldn't get the hair on my head right though...too curly
 
2013-07-20 06:23:26 PM

edmo: More and more people are packing these days and if cops keep doing this shiat they're going to end up getting shot by people standing their ground to protect themselves and their property. If you're going to treat all citizens as armed and dangerous criminals you can't expect citizens to not treat all intruders as armed and dangerous criminals.


Except the cops will kill you one or another:  http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780519 904.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories
 
2013-07-20 06:23:38 PM

edmo: More and more people are packing these days and if cops keep doing this shiat they're going to end up getting shot by people standing their ground to protect themselves and their property. If you're going to treat all citizens as armed and dangerous criminals you can't expect citizens to not treat all intruders as armed and dangerous criminals.


The media will be on their side, though. That's what kind of bothered me with no-knock warrants. The cops can barge into the wrong house, armed to the teeth, and the resident upstairs will be thinking "Somebody broke in!" and get their gun out. The resident thinks a burglar had come in, the cops think the criminal is going to go out with a fight. The resident gets shot apart and the media will treat it like it's the resident's fault.
 
2013-07-20 06:24:25 PM

WizardofToast: vudutek: Remember the good old days of " If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"?

I think it's become more of "If it's not you in trouble, it's nothing to worry about. The person in trouble probably deserved it."


Oh, by the way, sorry about your border collie pitbull that threatened to attack us, it gave us no choice, it was acting threatening through the bedroom door. Oh, and that fire started by the CS Grenade we threw through your child's window? Not our fault, unforeseen circumstances y'know. Oh, by the way, your child is being taken to CPS, because you didn't provide a clean environment for her, there were toys and dirty clothes on the floor all over her room.

Cops have absolute license to kill pretty much anyone they see, at any time they want. Police are actively sorted for narcissistic and sociopathic personalities. Departments WANT people that would shoot a dog or an old woman or a little kid without stopping to consider the circumstances. They aren't trained to think at all while on the job, they are programmed to react to stimuli, even if it is based purely on an assumption on the officer's part. It doesn't matter, cops are almost never prosecuted for cold-blooded murder in this country. They can chase an unarmed man down the street, dressed as street bums, and shoot him in the back, and they get medals for it.
 
2013-07-20 06:26:41 PM
What they gonna do on the day some innocent home owner shoots multiple cops dead while they are barging in without a warrant and he/she records it all?
 
2013-07-20 06:27:36 PM
Good thing they were only looking for a suspected rapist and not some doper:   http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/drug-war-victim/
 
2013-07-20 06:27:39 PM

Weaver95: thamike: shanrick: Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.

words of wisdom.

Meta-paranoia is the best kind of paranoia.

I have friends of mine who believe themselves to be fierce conservatives and believe that government should be extremely limited....and yet they blindly support the war on drugs and the war on terror, believing that the bill of rights is an impediment and that we can trust law enforcement not to abuse it's authority over us.  I personally don't understand their mindset but there you go.


You've described the wingnut branch of my family to a tee, except they're convinced that the proto-fascist surveillance state only started to matter in January 2009.  They were perfectly ducky with it from 2001 until 2008, when they were convinced that the magic rock in the oval office was repelling the tigers.  See, they believe that as long as the right sort of dictator is in charge, everything will be fine--it's only when you get a man without any integrity, morality and ethics in charge that the panopticon suddenly becomes dangerous and evil.  The idea that more than one person can be involved and that, the larger the organization, the easier it becomes for anyone working for that organization to deny that they have any personal responsibility in what that organization DOES, is completely foreign to them, and I've given up trying to explain it to them.  It only sends them into a frothing rage.

They also believe that the Aurora, CO shooting, the Newton Massacre and the Boston Marathon Bombing were false-flag operations.  Crank magnetism in action, y'all.
 
2013-07-20 06:27:47 PM
If Obama had a pack of thugs destroying civil liberty they would look like these gentleman
 
2013-07-20 06:27:49 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I like how the cop thinks that since he didn't shoot her she shouldn't be going to the press

/Christ what an asshole


So all that is protecting us from a serial killer in cops uniform is to trust in the officer's discretion not to shoot you.  The fear that would cause any person to either freeze in place of desperately try to fight to stay alive.   A cop who is cold hearted enough and eager to kill people would find a nice home in SWAT.
 
2013-07-20 06:28:09 PM
According to TFA, she didn't start screaming until she had a farking laser sight on her.  I'd likely scream too.  I work with normal cops every day, and believe me, none of them would try shiat like this.  This is the Marshalls/SWAT-type officers on a power trip, and posters here are right, its going to get them and innocent people killed if this is SOP for them.
 
2013-07-20 06:28:31 PM
In late to remind everyone... welcome to the 4th reich.
 
2013-07-20 06:28:44 PM

Plant Rights Activist: tricycleracer: But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door.

That's some fine police work there.

anyone who runs is a criminal.  Anyone who stands still is a well disciplined criminal.


I was going to click on "funny," but quickly realized it's "sad" how true this is.
 
2013-07-20 06:28:59 PM

Deathfrogg: WizardofToast: vudutek: Remember the good old days of " If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"?

I think it's become more of "If it's not you in trouble, it's nothing to worry about. The person in trouble probably deserved it."

Oh, by the way, sorry about your border collie pitbull that threatened to attack us, it gave us no choice, it was acting threatening through the bedroom door. Oh, and that fire started by the CS Grenade we threw through your child's window? Not our fault, unforeseen circumstances y'know. Oh, by the way, your child is being taken to CPS, because you didn't provide a clean environment for her, there were toys and dirty clothes on the floor all over her room.

Cops have absolute license to kill pretty much anyone they see, at any time they want. Police are actively sorted for narcissistic and sociopathic personalities. Departments WANT people that would shoot a dog or an old woman or a little kid without stopping to consider the circumstances. They aren't trained to think at all while on the job, they are programmed to react to stimuli, even if it is based purely on an assumption on the officer's part. It doesn't matter, cops are almost never prosecuted for cold-blooded murder in this country. They can chase an unarmed man down the street, dressed as street bums, and shoot him in the back, and they get medals for it.


And the media and people will nitpick whatever the victims did to justify the action. They should have known about all the crime going on in their town! Well they probably did a crime anyway! They must have done something wrong! Cops don't kill good citizens!

There could be found footage of a quad amputee grandmother getting beating into paste by batons and the media would blame her for raising her voice at them when she should have known to respect authority.
 
2013-07-20 06:29:53 PM

Deathfrogg: cops are almost never prosecuted for cold-blooded murder in this country. They can chase an unarmed man down the street, dressed as street bums, and shoot him in the back, and they get medals paid vacation for it.


Feexed. ;-)
 
2013-07-20 06:30:30 PM

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly...


I dunno, "show me your badge" which was responded to by the police etc with essentially "no"? fark them.
 
2013-07-20 06:30:46 PM
Don't hesitate to shoot next time.
 
2013-07-20 06:31:18 PM

Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.


Personal finance this term really pushed "serving the wealthy" in that trash book The Millionaire Next door. Kind of strange strategy to push onto a bunch of kids and adults who couldn't think their way out of wet paper bag. The culture of this country is absolutely farked.
 
2013-07-20 06:31:41 PM

See You Next Tuesday: If Fark had a village idiot he would type something about Obama out of the clear blue.


You realize Taxbongo was the commanding S.W.A.T. officer, right?  Or at least one of his clones.  The cloning technology has gotten very good, so it's very hard to tell.
 
2013-07-20 06:32:12 PM
Over the course of my life it seems to me that the general thuggery of good ol boy cops in the south has become the sop model for police actions in the us writ large.
 
2013-07-20 06:33:12 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I like how the cop thinks that since he didn't shoot her she shouldn't be going to the press

/Christ what an asshole


Asshole indeed. She should sue this panty-waist, d*ckless, gutless wonder just for saying that! What a worthless piece of shiat he is!
 
2013-07-20 06:33:19 PM

you are a puppet: Hector Remarkable: you are a puppet: If you're really outraged about this you should kill the police officer they named in the article. Otherwise it's just a bunch of complaining that won't lead to anything.

I haven't even killed ZImmerman yet!

Just saying, if someone started killing all the police involved in these raids it would be really cool, especially if you released little videos after each kill like Mandarin in Iron man 3, or maybe you could give a big speech like Bane (in Banes voice). Maybe I'm just excited with Comicon going on, it's got me in a mood. Got my facial hair looking like Wolverine right now. Couldn't get the hair on my head right though...too curly


i.imgur.com
 
2013-07-20 06:33:23 PM

TuteTibiImperes: I5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.


Based on this and your masterfull trolling of yesterday's Detroit thread, I anoint you King of the Fark Trolls. Congratulations!
 
2013-07-20 06:33:46 PM

BafflerMeal: Over the course of my life it seems to me that the general thuggery of good ol boy cops in the south has become the sop model for police actions in the us writ large.


Cops have been militarized - no secrets there. And, I doubt there's much the citizenry can do about it at this stage in the game. Outside of leaving the US, that is.
 
2013-07-20 06:33:53 PM

Mike_LowELL: See You Next Tuesday: If Fark had a village idiot he would type something about Obama out of the clear blue.

You realize Taxbongo was the commanding S.W.A.T. officer, right?  Or at least one of his clones.  The cloning technology has gotten very good, so it's very hard to tell.


oh yeah, S.W.A.T. That reminds me..Colin Ferrell. Someone could wait outside this cop's house, he comes out, you shoot him in the head and say "Bullseye!"
 
2013-07-20 06:34:22 PM

See You Next Tuesday: ThatDarkFellow: If Obama had a pack of thugs destroying civil liberty they would look like these gentleman

If Fark had a village idiot he would type something about Obama out of the clear blue.


Fark has a metropolis of village idiots!

/ And depending on the day and the thread, I might be one of its fine citizens!
 
2013-07-20 06:36:03 PM

ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


You sound white.
 
2013-07-20 06:36:10 PM
Give up freedom for security and lose both.
 
2013-07-20 06:36:48 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

You sound white.


He sounds like a slave.
 
2013-07-20 06:37:17 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I like how the cop thinks that since he didn't shoot her she shouldn't be going to the press

/Christ what an asshole


Seriously.  What a f---- prick.  Part of me wishes she had panicked and shot him, although I think we all know what the result would have been.  "Two domestic terrorists covering up a child sexual slavery ring 'exchanged gunfire' with numerous officers sent to apprehend them, wounding one.  The blood loss in the perpetrators' bodies was more than compensated by the increase in weight due to copper and lead."

Maybe someday the prick cop will have a warrantless knock on his door with a tac team and a red dot on his forehead.
 
2013-07-20 06:38:48 PM

MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]


yeasty planet?
 
2013-07-20 06:39:28 PM
cdn2.planetminecraft.com
 
2013-07-20 06:40:56 PM
Raylan Givens would have sweet talked her out.
 
2013-07-20 06:42:34 PM

mrlewish: What they gonna do on the day some innocent home owner shoots multiple cops dead while they are barging in without a warrant and he/she records it all?


Turn the homeowner and any witnesses in the house into leaky meat, confiscate any cameras, computers or obvious recording equipment as "evidence," make sure that they find something illegal--maybe some crystal meth, say, or a few cans of brake fluid or de-icer that they can CLAIM was for making meth, or cocaine or child pr0n on a laptop or something--and intimidate any outside witnesses into silence.  Lean on anyone who DOES go to the press and if it actually somehow goes to court, throw enough obfuscation and doubt on any witness testimony that no one can even be sure the witness is actually even in the court room, much less that s/he saw anything untoward happen that night.

You know, business as usual.
 
2013-07-20 06:43:47 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: [cdn2.planetminecraft.com image 850x637]


Is that a car full of cops having a taser orgy or is it a malfunctioning hybrid?
 
2013-07-20 06:44:09 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.


Dude...the guy at the window WAS one of the cops. The BF didn't refuse to open the
door, he just wanted to see ID to verify that the armed men pounding on his door were,
in fact, the police.
 
2013-07-20 06:44:15 PM

Bacontastesgood: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I like how the cop thinks that since he didn't shoot her she shouldn't be going to the press

/Christ what an asshole

Seriously.  What a f---- prick.  Part of me wishes she had panicked and shot him, although I think we all know what the result would have been.  "Two domestic terrorists covering up a child sexual slavery ring 'exchanged gunfire' with numerous officers sent to apprehend them, wounding one.  The blood loss in the perpetrators' bodies was more than compensated by the increase in weight due to copper and lead."

Maybe someday the prick cop will have a warrantless knock on his door with a tac team and a red dot on his forehead.


The sad part is that the whole thing might have been avoided if Officer Dickhead had pulled the badge out from under his bulletproof vest instead of just relying on the authority inherent in profanity to prove that they were indeed the farking police.
 
2013-07-20 06:45:44 PM

YoOjo: Jon iz teh kewl: [cdn2.planetminecraft.com image 850x637]

Is that a car full of cops having a taser orgy or is it a malfunctioning hybrid?


whatever it is, it's something cool because cops = cool
 
2013-07-20 06:45:55 PM
every SWAT/SRT/TRU operator needs to be outed. Why?. Every citizen has the right to.
 
2013-07-20 06:47:12 PM

Smirky the Wonder Chimp: Turn the homeowner and any witnesses in the house into leaky meat, confiscate any cameras, computers or obvious recording equipment as "evidence," make sure that they find something illegal--maybe some crystal meth, say, or a few cans of brake fluid or de-icer that they can CLAIM was for making meth, or cocaine or child pr0n on a laptop or something--and intimidate any outside witnesses into silence.  Lean on anyone who DOES go to the press and if it actually somehow goes to court, throw enough obfuscation and doubt on any witness testimony that no one can even be sure the witness is actually even in the court room, much less that s/he saw anything untoward happen that night.

You know, business as usual.


Yeah.  The only way it works is to have cameras streaming to a remote server, well secured, which is set up with a script so if it isn't disabled daily or weekly to forward a link to the video to the NYT, 4chan, etcetera.  Maybe with a trap so if they try to hack it, the fingerprints are recorded too.  The cameras also need to be HD with high dynamic range so they aren't blown out by muzzle flare.  Who the fark is going to do all of that on the off chance some cops are going to murder them?
 
2013-07-20 06:47:44 PM

MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]


www.designtickle.com
 
2013-07-20 06:48:15 PM

Shostie: Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.


and what about Stewart Copeland?
 
2013-07-20 06:50:19 PM

ManateeGag: Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.

what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


Yet. Better hope there's never an erroneous report of a rapist in your area or some enemy of yours doesn't call in a fake drug tip for your house. You can sue afterwards, you might even win, but that won't really matter if one of your loved ones is shot dead.
 
2013-07-20 06:50:27 PM
The foundation of Christian culture is martyrdom. WIth out some cause/enemy/struggle to which they can sacrifice themselves, Christians are pretty lost. The result of this is the eternal, "other" as enemy of "freedom." Every generation has been convinced by its leadership, once in a while legitimately but most often not so, that the very existence of everything they know is at stake.

This is what has been implied about Islamic radical terrorists and it's fundamentally true, but the reaction has been galaxies out of proportion to the threat to the point that we are effectively on a global Crusade against mostly Islamic poor brown people, who we kill with bombs that cost a million dollars apiece launched from aircraft that cost $100 million apiece. At home, we are all subject to secret court orders that strip our Constitutional rights without the slightest public due process. All of your phone calls, emails, web searches, financial records, criminal records, and driving records are subject to secret collection and analysis.

Osama bin Laden's stated purpose was to bankrupt the United States of America, similarly to how he bled out the financial life of the Soviet Union. Bush fell right into the trap and now there seems to be no going back.

Feel safer?
And the congress voted all of this stuff into existence and the first black president, a constitutional scholar (albeit the Chicago School version of that strange animal) who governs objectively to the right of Richard Nixon, won't do anything about it because he doesn't want to appear weak.

Eventually, it will fall to the citizens to resist the creep of fascism across this country.
If shooting down drones, as proposed through the legislative process in a Colorado town this week, is the beginning or the place where we the people have to draw our line, so be it.
Fark the fascists. With an icepick. In the ear.
 
2013-07-20 06:52:00 PM

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


crossfitfire.com
 
2013-07-20 06:52:05 PM
And look where it's at
Middle America, now it's a tragedy
Now it's so sad to see, an upper class city
Having this happening...

/boo hoo white people
//this shiat happens to minorities on the daily
 
2013-07-20 06:52:30 PM
Assuming the story is true, that's some scary farking shiat right there.
 
2013-07-20 06:53:22 PM
Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."
 
2013-07-20 06:54:03 PM
My favorite part was where the officer justified his actions by saying "well everyone else did what I said and since this couple didn't that let me know that's where the bad guy was"
What a load of horseshiat.
 
2013-07-20 06:54:28 PM

MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]


I'm 37, and even during my college years I never got cuffed.  This last July 4th.  I was invited to a party.  Just before 9, everyone in the building went on the roof to watch the fireworks.  Some people were shooting off roman candles.  The cops came.  Usually, it just means go home.  I waited for some of the ladies to go down the stairs and I was cuffed.

The good news, I was able to see the fireworks.  It was your basic stop-and-frisk the middle-aged white guy.  They cuffed five of us(out of 40 people on the roof), and all of us were in our 30s.(one guy, my friend, was Puerto Rican, but, that's not the point).

They got our wallets out and ran our driver's licenses to see we had warrants.  Since, we were cuffed, they had to charge us w/ something.  They charged us w/ trespassing, b/c the landlord would need a permit for the tenants to have rooftop access (That's what the cops told us).
So, now I have a carbon copy of the citation and I can't read it, and the precinct aren't helping me of informing when I should I should contest this in court.  Rather annoying.

So, yeah, until last July 4th, I never had a legal bad run-in w/ the cops (I've had angry traffic cops, but, that's another issue).

/meandering story, bro.
 
2013-07-20 06:55:57 PM
Holy shiat.
 
2013-07-20 06:56:26 PM

ManateeGag: Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.

what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


Lucky you.  I had one farking my ex wife.  I was pulled over continuously.  Its nice you never met one who has clearly forgotten his oath, but many have.
 
2013-07-20 06:57:27 PM

Mike_LowELL: Her carelessness could have seduced the cops and then the streets would have fewer cops and then the Greek gods would come marching right the fark down.


http://www.amazon.com/Age-Zeus-Pantheon-Trilogy-ebook/dp/B004U7FAIG/ re f=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374361018&sr=8-1&keywords=age+of+zeus
 
2013-07-20 06:57:40 PM
Okay, I'm well aware that this is stupid, but: has there ever been a referendum initiated by a populace on whether peace keeping was worth giving up privacy? I'm talking about through the entire course of history. It seems to be the default assumption that the vast majority will trade everything for safety, but I haven't personally seen that. I have to believe there is at least a sizable minority, surely full of machismo or self-loathing, who would take the opposite side. I know opposition exists, but it's usually coddled with "Of course we want to use every means necessary to [catch the bad guy, kill the bad guy, know the bad guy's plans]."

Is it really so far fetched to have somebody, anybody of note, publicly say, "The death of myself, my family, you, your family, or all of us is not a great enough reason to revoke privacy, the enumerated rights, and the ideal of liberty." ...and then not be treated as a joke?
 
2013-07-20 06:58:26 PM

nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."


Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.
 
2013-07-20 06:59:01 PM

Quintessential_Cynic: Okay, I'm well aware that this is stupid, but: has there ever been a referendum initiated by a populace on whether peace keeping was worth giving up privacy? I'm talking about through the entire course of history. It seems to be the default assumption that the vast majority will trade everything for safety, but I haven't personally seen that. I have to believe there is at least a sizable minority, surely full of machismo or self-loathing, who would take the opposite side. I know opposition exists, but it's usually coddled with "Of course we want to use every means necessary to [catch the bad guy, kill the bad guy, know the bad guy's plans]."

Is it really so far fetched to have somebody, anybody of note, publicly say, "The death of myself, my family, you, your family, or all of us is not a great enough reason to revoke privacy, the enumerated rights, and the ideal of liberty." ...and then not be treated as a joke?


They won't be treated as joke. See Ruby Ridge and the rest ...
 
2013-07-20 06:59:04 PM
I certainly won't defend the Marshal here, or the fact we're getting very...police state-y with some of our protocols, and I'm a bit impressed at the fact she grabbed a  pistol when she saw a red laser guide pointed on her own goddamn forehead.

In a panic, I probably won't think "oh, it's the police and it must be a misunderstanding!" and yell  "Here, come in guys! I have cookies!!" either, but if all I have is a .38 caliber in the house, any single tracer beam flying about the kitchen most likely means whomever outside is doing it has friends, and my pistol will be going up multiple assault weapons...at which point after a few "WTF" moments internally I'd probably just rollover. This woman is ballsier than me.
 
2013-07-20 07:00:08 PM
You guys have short-term memories, and my google fu is failing me, but there was a MARINE killed a couple years ago when. . . Get this. . . A cop accidentally shot the door jamb of his house during a police raid (they were at the wrong house). The marine had a gun and thought someone was getting ready to rob him and his wife and kid. Wife ended up holding up the baby to the police saying don't shoot me.

People who think this sort of shiat was new to Boston haven't been paying attention.
 
2013-07-20 07:00:27 PM

YoOjo: What is it with you people and your obsessions with 'freedom'?
The USA is one of the least 'free' places in the first world, we're just sold an illusion that we're free in order to placate us and keep us on the same side as the authorities.
Either wake up and smell the mushroom tea, and in the process accept that you're not 'free', or keep drinking the Kool Aid, but please stop harping on about civil liberties or losses of freedom.
The police are employed to control you, let them do that or pay the consequences.


This.

Get out. Spend some time wandering around Western Europe or Australia, and start to see how other systems work - even without a bill of rights or the freedom to carry a concealed weapon in public. Look at how criminals are prosecuted in criminal courts rather than judge under civil rules where the winner is the guy with the most expensive lawyer.

The US is an amazing place for its entrepreneurial mindset and ability to turn ideas into reality, but even the liberal world-views are conservative in comparison to much of the world.
 
2013-07-20 07:02:24 PM

TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.


Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.
 
2013-07-20 07:02:32 PM

ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


Hmm how about the time I was walking back from 7-11 at 2am... because I was studying for a final and needed some caffeine... I was simply walking across the street and I was stopped by a cruiser.  They proceeded to strip search me and give me several confusing sobriety tests.  Keep in mind I was in the middle of finals and was very low on sleep, maybe 1-2 hours a night for a couple of nights straight, and was just trying to walk home.

They eventually let me go after humiliating me and talking down to me, and wasting a couple hours of my time.
 
2013-07-20 07:03:27 PM
Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

No she shouldn't. She should go to a nice law firm and see if she can sue. If this sort of behavior is costly to the police they will modify their behavior.
 
2013-07-20 07:03:40 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Hmm how about the time I was walking back from 7-11 at 2am... because I was studying for a final and needed some caffeine... I was simply walking across the street and I was stopped by a cruiser.  They proceeded to strip search me and give me several confusing sobriety tests.  Keep in mind I was in the middle of finals and was very low on sleep, maybe 1-2 hours a night for a couple of nights straight, and was just trying to walk home.

They eventually let me go after humiliating me and talking down to me, and wasting a couple hours of my time.


What better way to kill time on a night shift?
 
2013-07-20 07:05:10 PM
I always said that when this shiat started happening to white people on a regular basis, I would leave this country.

I'm gonna renew my passport tomorrow and when the last kid is out of college in a year, I'm out. Hopefully, a year is enough to plan.
 
2013-07-20 07:05:48 PM
Remember, aim for the head, they are wearing body armor.
 
2013-07-20 07:06:27 PM

nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.


I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.
 
2013-07-20 07:07:05 PM

Benjimin_Dover: TuteTibiImperes: Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.

Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.

It wasn't "no one answers when police identified themselves" it was a person inside the apartment responding to a voice through the door that claimed they were the police by asking for some identification yo be shown. Any law enforcement officer that has a problem with showing identification needs to be released to find another line of work.


That's what really bothers me here, along with searching an entire complex (and only being 'nice' to the residents who let them freely search), and handcuffing both of them, which sounds an awful lot like illegal imprisonment to me.
 
2013-07-20 07:07:39 PM

TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.

I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.


Thank your for making my point. Maybe you should change your Fark handle to Awl Hammer.
 
2013-07-20 07:07:57 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.


And doing so with no warrant while refusing to show ID, which it states in TFA, is also not legitimate.
 
2013-07-20 07:10:28 PM
Opiate of the Lasses
And look where it's at
Middle America, now it's a tragedy
Now it's so sad to see, an upper class city
Having this happening...
/boo hoo white people
//this shiat happens to minorities on the daily


You are right, police are keeping their protected status while taking the war on to anyone the want to arrest.

But I do remember some quote about one of the primary reasons the United States had to stop the Vietnam war. Something about running out of of people from socially marginalized economic classes to draft. When the white middle class sees a problem, then it gets handled.

When Officer Steroids McBain shoots and harasses enough random middle class white people, their will be a movement to demand social change.

This is actually a concern and it is being measured to prevent kickback.
Link

Per wikipedia:
In 1967, the continued operation of a seemingly unfair draft system then calling as many as 40,000 men for induction each month fueled a burgeoning draft resistance movement. The draft favored white, middle-class men, which allowed an economically and racially discriminating draft to force young African American men to serve in rates that were disproportionately higher than the general population. Although in 1967 there was a smaller field of draft eligible black men-29 percent versus 63 percent of draft eligible white men-64 percent of black men were chosen to serve in the war through conscription, compared to only 31 percent of eligible white men.[87] In 1986 the Washington Post published an in depth examination of the subject titled "The Myth of the Vietnam Vet." According to the Post, "The man who fought in Vietnam is typically depicted as a draftee, unwilling and probably black. In fact, 73 percent of those who died were volunteers and 12.5 percent were black (out of an age group that comprised 13.5 percent of the male population)."[88]
 
2013-07-20 07:12:00 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: TuteTibiImperes: Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.

And doing so with no warrant while refusing to show ID, which it states in TFA, is also not legitimate.


The Constitution is just a silly document to people like him. They believe security is much more important than rights. To them, those who provide it, regardless of their methods, are always acting in your best interest.
 
2013-07-20 07:12:00 PM

nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.

I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.

Thank your for making my point. Maybe you should change your Fark handle to Awl Hammer.


If that's what you want to think, go right ahead.  We have one account of the situation and we don't know the motivations of the officers entering.  I prefer to assume that most law enforcement agents are looking out for the common good and won't violate the law and regulations willingly.  If you want to assume most law enforcement agents as corrupt thugs, obviously that will change your interpretation of the situation.
 
2013-07-20 07:13:03 PM

ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


I suppose you've never had any interaction, even a benign one, with Baltimore PD. Even being within speaking distance of them will change your view of police in general. *shudder*

/friend was assaulted by thugs downtown
//friend tried to press charges
///sargeant ended up shoving him into traffic, acting more thuggish than the people he was assaulted by
 
2013-07-20 07:13:06 PM
Cops aren't your friends or your enemies, they're just strangers with guns.  How do you treat strangers with guns that you meet?
 
2013-07-20 07:13:06 PM

TuteTibiImperes: I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.


The article starts with her standing over the sink doing the dishes, to find a laser-sight dancing around her eyes. The Marshal had to have seen her (a) calmly doing her dishes, (b) realize his sight is on her, and (c) make eye contact while she immediately thinks (and probably makes a face implying such) "oh shiat".

Rape would have been the last thing on his mind, and any rational, intelligent person would deduce screams at that point would probably stem from being scared crapless.
 
2013-07-20 07:14:35 PM

TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.

I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.


Wow. You suck cop dick so hard you may just invert him. Bravo.

I thought you were just a troll after the Detroit thread, but...Jesus, just how dumb -are- you?
 
2013-07-20 07:15:57 PM
Officer Wiggins will make a fine police chief.
 
2013-07-20 07:16:07 PM

Bravo Two: Jesus, just how dumb -are- you?


Either a troll account or really farking dumb. Hard to say. Poe's Law in action.
 
2013-07-20 07:16:46 PM

TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.

I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.

Thank your for making my point. Maybe you should change your Fark handle to Awl Hammer.

If that's what you want to think, go right ahead.  We have one account of the situation and we don't know the motivations of the officers entering.  I prefer to assume that most law enforcement agents are looking out for the common good and won't violate the law and regulations willingly.  If you want to assume most law enforcement agents as corrupt thugs, obviously that will change your i ...


The cops were the ones who pointed the farking gun at her and made her scream genius. The guy they were chasing was never suspected of being armed and was found and arrested unarmed. He also wasn't dressed up in a hunter's outfit.
 
2013-07-20 07:16:50 PM
Dead cop = Good cop?
 
2013-07-20 07:18:00 PM

DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: Dead cop = Good cop?


i get it Trunkin Donuts

www.bubblews.com
 
2013-07-20 07:18:57 PM
After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:

901.19Right of officer to break into building.-

(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be.
 They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.

I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.
 
2013-07-20 07:19:06 PM

lack of warmth: Officer Wiggins will make a fine police chief.


Bake him away, toys!
 
2013-07-20 07:19:38 PM

TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.

I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.

Thank your for making my point. Maybe you should change your Fark handle to Awl Hammer.

If that's what you want to think, go right ahead.  We have one account of the situation and we don't know the motivations of the officers entering.  I prefer to assume that most law enforcement agents are looking out for the common good and won't violate the law and regulations willingly.  If you want to assume most law enforcement agents as corrupt thugs, obviously that will change your interpretation of the situation.


Don't read the news much?

House to house searches in Boston. Two Asian ladies shot up by cops in LA looking for a big black guy. A marine killed in his own home because he heard gunshots and armed himself only to be gunned down by the cops raiding his house by mistake who didn't announce themselves. And those are the major ones.

Cops are not there to ensure the common good. They are there to force compliance through force and intimidation of some arbitrary government policies.

Now, kindly go back to sucking that cop dick in silence while Uncle Sam farks you up the ass.

/the more this shiat happens, the more Waco and ruby ridge smell.
 
2013-07-20 07:20:14 PM
There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.
 
2013-07-20 07:20:33 PM

Rincewind53: Aaannnnnnd, that's a federal lawsuit won right there. The law is pretty crystal clear in this particular area.


People who sue Law Enforcement tend end up dead.  FTFA: "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

Coming from a U.S. Marshall, that's a significant threat.  And Marshall Wiggins knows he's so far above the law, he doesn't mind making it on the record.

Never mind the fact, that even without a lawsuit or going to the press, this is two more people with an arrest record who are now unemployable, ineligible for welfare benefits, etc.
 
2013-07-20 07:21:23 PM

Boojum2k: Bravo Two: Jesus, just how dumb -are- you?

Either a troll account or really farking dumb. Hard to say. Poe's Law in action.


Hey, I was right about Detroit, and at least I can make a logical argument here.  If you want to result to ad hominem attacks, go for it, but my arguments are well grounded here.
 
2013-07-20 07:22:30 PM

MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]


Up Town Girl?
 
2013-07-20 07:22:31 PM
It took some searching, but here's more info on the guy they were searching for.

Apparently a 14 year old girl was raped by relatives over the last few years. On person, Joshua Riley, was arrested back on July 5th.

Sarasota man charged with child molestation starting when victim was infant

Another relative, Kyle Riley, was also charged, and this was the guy they were looking for when the incident in TFA happened.

2nd family member charged in Sarasota incest case

Kyle Riley, wanted on sexual battery charges, has been arrested

And you can add witness tampering to the list of charges.

Witness tampering charge, 2nd arrest in incest case

None of this, however, excuses a home invasion by police. Especially in light of the fact that there was nothing to suggest Kyle was dangerous unless you were a 14 year old girl.
 
2013-07-20 07:22:38 PM

Gyrfalcon: No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.


Eliminate the war on drugs, and it's a deal. Criminals with illegal weapons, most stolen good, etc., aren't going to be able to flush those down a toilet.
 
2013-07-20 07:22:41 PM

TuteTibiImperes: vudutek: TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

SO, all the cops need to do is laser-sight the occupants to get someone to scream, and warrants are no longer required? And you seem to be ok with this?

The courts have long held that warrantless searches are legal if there are exigent circumstances, such as the officer's belief that someone is in mortal danger.

The officer at the door did not likely know that the woman was screaming because she possibly saw another officer through the window.  To his knowledge he was in an area where there was a reported fugitive, and there was a woman screaming in terror inside of her apartment.  It was his duty to protect the public safety to enter that apartment to make sure she wasn't being murdered, raped, etc.

Everything that came afterward seems to be SOP because there was a gun pointed at the officer and someone else in the apartment who (as far as the officer knew) may have been responsible for why she was screaming.


here's the problem. the cop never said he heard her scream and used that as an excuse to kick the door in. he said it was because they didn't open up immediately.
 
2013-07-20 07:23:43 PM

Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.



It's a fix but there would be nothing easy about implementing it.  The government is very, very hesitant to relinquish controls once given.
 
2013-07-20 07:24:27 PM

TuteTibiImperes: After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:

901.19Right of officer to break into building.-

(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be. They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.

I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.


Wow are you really that bad at reading. He *has* to announce his purpose.

"Open up ma'am. We're the police and we're searching the premise for wanted felon on the run."

They might even show the warrant.

Instead she got cops creeping around, point guns at her, telling her they "were the farking police", and several other alarming and boot stompy thing.
 
2013-07-20 07:24:28 PM

TuteTibiImperes: I was right about Detroit


I didn't see what you had to say about Detroit.  Okay, you are using some logical arguments here, overly favorable to the police when there's dispute on interpretation, but fair enough. You are massively wrong elsewhere about the 2nd amendment but that's probably your personal bias speaking.

Fine. Carry on.
 
2013-07-20 07:25:35 PM

redmid17: TuteTibiImperes: After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:

901.19Right of officer to break into building.-

(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be. They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.

I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.

Wow are you really that bad at reading. He *has* to announce his purpose.

"Open up ma'am. We're the police and we're searching the premise for wanted felon on the run."

They might even show the warrant.

Instead she got cops creeping around, point guns at her, telling her they "were the farking police", and several other alarming and boot stompy thing.


Which armed criminals would never do of course.
 
2013-07-20 07:25:40 PM

Bmorrison: Shostie: Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.

and what about Stewart Copeland?


He's an asshole.
 
2013-07-20 07:25:44 PM
TuteTibiImperes
After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:
901.19Right of officer to break into building.-
(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be.
 They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.
I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.



This sounds like a cop version of 'I smell a gas leak'. 

Lets see what is decided after a lawsuit, since the officer jumped to a conclusion, not reasonably believed.
 
2013-07-20 07:26:56 PM
fnordfocus:

Never mind the fact, that even without a lawsuit or going to the press, this is two more people with an arrest record who are now unemployable, ineligible for welfare benefits, etc.

The article states that she was never arrested, and while it doesn't explicitly state that he wasn't, it say that they just handcuffed him for half an hour while they searched then released him, I'm assume that he was just detained as well and not arrested.
 
2013-07-20 07:28:04 PM
it's just like Baghdad in 2003
 
2013-07-20 07:28:27 PM

you are a puppet: Just saying, if someone started killing all the police involved in these raids it would be really cool, especially if you released little videos after each kill like Mandarin in Iron man 3, or maybe you could give a big speech like Bane (in Banes voice). Maybe I'm just excited with Comicon going on, it's got me in a mood.


DHS, NSA take note.  There's another group you can add to your list of potential terrorist - people who read comic books.
 
2013-07-20 07:28:28 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Boojum2k: Bravo Two: Jesus, just how dumb -are- you?

Either a troll account or really farking dumb. Hard to say. Poe's Law in action.

Hey, I was right about Detroit, and at least I can make a logical argument here.  If you want to result to ad hominem attacks, go for it, but my arguments are well grounded here.


Your arguments about Detroit were absurd nonsense that suggested tax payers be on the hook for billions in bad decisions.

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

Tell me, how do you even say that with a straight face? Do you tell rape victims they deserved it because they showed too much ankle? Do you also advocate the state abusing power to punish people arbitrarily?

You, sir, are either a troll, a moron, or have a serious fetish for government control. You do realize that being the lackey of the fascists buys you nothing once they have no more need of you?
 
2013-07-20 07:29:07 PM
The cops hate your guts and want you to die.  Remember that every time you have to interact with one of these moronic power mad thugs.
 
2013-07-20 07:29:11 PM
I'm a total jerk and haven't read the thread but I opportune this brief moment to channel Neil Young's and then explode in a cataclysm of despair, wniskey, and unnecessary Onario rock.  And my dying puddle says rock on to to the benevolent hearing
 
2013-07-20 07:29:23 PM

Shostie: Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.


I have nothing against Stewart Copeland.
 
2013-07-20 07:29:24 PM

TuteTibiImperes: I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


There's a farkload of overreach.

First, the Heroic Officers are too farking cool to wear badges or uniforms, and yet us civilian sheep are still supposed to know they are Officers and not just random criminals pointing guns at us.

Also, the Marshall involved pretty much threatened her in retaliation for going to the media.
 
2013-07-20 07:30:05 PM
The cop heard a scream and that is the excuse to go in?  At that point, you have a hostage situation. (He is SURE there is an armed child rapist is inside)  Is this how a hostage situation should be handled?
 
2013-07-20 07:31:09 PM
If I'm ever whitemanrich, I'm getting ---

Panic Room - immediate safety  - lots of plate steel leading to...

Concealed Exit - exit without being seen/stopped.  Drainage pipe, concrete tunnel, something that gets me away from the house.

Automated Sentry Gun - Anything from pepper spray to skunk extract to blue dye-pack dye.  With small plaque outside of home "This home is protected by automated defenses.  You have been warned."
 
2013-07-20 07:31:14 PM
Police have been doing this for a while now, it's been the case for a long time that if they hear screaming and they think a person is in 'imminent danger' they will break into a house, and pretty much do whatever else they want.

Cool story sis: years ago some cops got a call from someone in the area of my neighborhood saying they heard a woman screaming. They went door to door, and at the time I was upstairs taking a shower and I had left the downstairs door unlocked. I live in the country, so this is normal. Anyway, the police let themselves into the house. The downstairs lights were out so they had their flashlights on. I heard the noises and strange male voices and thought my house was being broken into. I got out of the shower with my hair still full of soap, armed myself with a pair of scissors and went looking for a phone- or possibly to climb out of a window and get on to the roof. Anyway, I paused to listen to them and figured out they were police, put away the scissors and came down to talk to them (in my towel still), but it was still pretty freaky.

I'm also pretty sure what the person heard was actually this bird called a Night Heron which would hang out in the creek sometimes and made noises like a woman being murdered. This particular bird had a really murder-y sounding cry it made.
 
2013-07-20 07:31:18 PM

maddan: The cop heard a scream and that is the excuse to go in?  At that point, you have a hostage situation. (He is SURE there is an armed child rapist is inside)  Is this how a hostage situation should be handled?


the cop never said he heard a scream. he said they went in because they wouldn't open the door immediately.
 
2013-07-20 07:31:37 PM

TuteTibiImperes: After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:

901.19Right of officer to break into building.-

(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be. They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.

I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.


No warrant. No reasonable expectation that the fugitive was in that apartment. No legal entry.

/Not to mention... No "announced his authority and purpose"
 
2013-07-20 07:32:17 PM

joeshill: If I'm ever whitemanrich, I'm getting ---

Panic Room - immediate safety  - lots of plate steel leading to...

Concealed Exit - exit without being seen/stopped.  Drainage pipe, concrete tunnel, something that gets me away from the house.

Automated Sentry Gun - Anything from pepper spray to skunk extract to blue dye-pack dye.  With small plaque outside of home "This home is protected by automated defenses.  You have been warned."


word
 
2013-07-20 07:32:37 PM
Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.
 
2013-07-20 07:33:50 PM
Quick question about "home invasions".

I don't think I ever heard the term before the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping, now it is on local news like a talking point (of course, it is). Do they really happen (other than SWAT team raids)? Of course, the range of criminal minds tend from dumb to dumber (the smarter and better camaflaged ones tend to rewrite their crimes into laws) so it is indeed possible that they would do it, instead of taking their time ransacking an empty place.

Question for fark: should there be a public service message:
Armed Intruders? Don't worry, their your friends the police! All this derp about "home invasions" is just derp, they really only occur [insert rectally derived percentage here] of all armed assaults on homes. The rest are merely police protecting you, especially from you dog of peace.

/realistic?
 
2013-07-20 07:34:06 PM

OtherLittleGuy: Yup.... and after a few more of these, a group of criminals will kelvar up, raid a place as "police", and they're be able to get in and out without incident, until the local police find out, "hey! that wasn't OUR raid!"


It's been done.  In one case, the dispatcher actually ordered a victim to open the door because the perps identified the were "FBI."  Then, they killed her.

And cases like this, where Officers don't think badges and uniforms make them look badass enough, only make it easier.  Where I live only a minority of Police wear clearly identifiable uniforms, and they're trending towards unmarked vehicles with civilian plates.
 
2013-07-20 07:34:41 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.


the cop never said he heard her scream he said they went in because they didn't open the door right away
 
2013-07-20 07:34:53 PM

davidphogan: Shostie: Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.

I have nothing against Stewart Copeland.


Really... he's an asshole.
 
2013-07-20 07:36:01 PM
Citizens should learn how to comply and there won't be any problem!
 
2013-07-20 07:37:23 PM
Guess you could say these guys weren't....

Justified.

YEEEEAAAH

/only read half the thread, apologies if someone already brought this up
//Raylan would have shot her for sure
 
2013-07-20 07:37:35 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.


Out of curiousity... how do you feel about the search of the apartment after the two inhabitants were outside and handcuffed? (assuming they were not given permission by the lady... which I sincerely doubt they even asked for).
 
2013-07-20 07:37:55 PM
I'm going to opine that this is a "not the whole story case" and everyone involved is stupid, lying somewhat, but not wholly unjustified.

Also, the police might want to think about setting up a perimeter while they wait ten minutes for a warrant in these situations, even if it's a bit more expensive.  Think of it as an investment in public relations.
 
2013-07-20 07:38:07 PM
The actual words, the couple say, were, "We're the f------ police; open the f------ door."

That's the point at which I'd have opened fire through the wall.
 
2013-07-20 07:39:02 PM
fnordfocus
And cases like this, where Officers don't think badges and uniforms make them look badass enough, only make it easier. Where I live only a minority of Police wear clearly identifiable uniforms, and they're trending towards unmarked vehicles with civilian plates.


The complete unmarked vehicles with civilian plates is used alot during prime time DWI hours to find drunk people.
 
2013-07-20 07:39:32 PM
scifiinterfaces.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-07-20 07:40:04 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.


And yet the officer stated he entered because they didn't open up proving the guy was in there, after refusing to produce ID when asked, not because he heard screaming. Funny the things you learn when you RTFA.

/but, with your head so far up all things big government's ass, I can see how reading the article could be hard.
 
2013-07-20 07:41:24 PM
The police are not here to protect us, they are here to arrest us.  They've got to keep those private prisons full.
 
2013-07-20 07:41:28 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.

Out of curiousity... how do you feel about the search of the apartment after the two inhabitants were outside and handcuffed? (assuming they were not given permission by the lady... which I sincerely doubt they even asked for).


That I don't necessarily agree with.  Once the two identified themselves and were found not to be criminals, in peril, or the guy they were looking for, I'm not quite sure what the justification for searching the apartment would be if the two told them they were the only ones home.

On a similar note, I don't agree with the house to house searches that happened after the Boston bombing.

I'm in no way advocating for a police state or for the police to have the unimpeded right to enter your property, I just think that the particular case in the article could possibly have been legit depending on why the officer entered in the first place.
 
2013-07-20 07:41:38 PM

yet_another_wumpus: Quick question about "home invasions".

I don't think I ever heard the term before the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping, now it is on local news like a talking point (of course, it is). Do they really happen (other than SWAT team raids)?


Yes. Obviously a non-neutral source, but it links to real news stories.
 
2013-07-20 07:41:55 PM
Lessee: "open up its the Police!"
And I believe them because...
 
2013-07-20 07:42:18 PM
Good thing the bad guys aren't allowed to say, "Open up, I'm the police".
 
2013-07-20 07:42:48 PM

Enemabag Jones: But I do remember some quote about one of the primary reasons the United States had to stop the Vietnam war. Something about running out of of people from socially marginalized economic classes to draft. When the white middle class sees a problem, then it gets handled.


And the government, big business, and Wall Street have been doing there best to abolish the middle class for the last decade.

Coincidence?
 
2013-07-20 07:43:00 PM

TuteTibiImperes: I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


You're either a troll or a farking idiot. The moron cop, without identifying himself, pointed a gun at her head. And because some nut job was pointing a gun, with a laser sight mind you, at her head she started screaming and got her gun. And her screaming is now justification for them breaking in and shooting her. Only by the good grace and extreme restraint shown by the officer she wasn't shot and she should be kissing that officer's feet every morning thanking him she is still alive.

You sir are a farking moron.
 
2013-07-20 07:43:04 PM

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


Fascist
 
2013-07-20 07:43:26 PM

Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.


These threads are 99% derp from both sides. Do you expect to reach anyone with this post? :)
 
2013-07-20 07:43:36 PM
Bravo Two:

And yet the officer stated he entered because they didn't open up proving the guy was in there

It's possible he heard the screaming as well and that's one of the reasons he was concerned that no one opened the door.  We don't know every detail of how it happened, so there's no reasons to assume that the officers actions were malicious.  Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.
 
2013-07-20 07:44:03 PM

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)


Did the police show any evidence of caring about a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at he? No, they did not. The only concern for safety expressed by the only policeman interviewed was for himself. This is indeed a fine piece of trollwork but leave it at that, TT. Your premise does not stand up to the least little bit of examination.
 
2013-07-20 07:44:41 PM

aerojockey: I'm going to opine that this is a "not the whole story case" and everyone involved is stupid, lying somewhat, but not wholly unjustified.

Also, the police might want to think about setting up a perimeter while they wait ten minutes for a warrant in these situations, even if it's a bit more expensive.  Think of it as an investment in public relations.


I always assume this is the case... and if it's something I care about... I go searching for other sources. Right now... everything I find refers to the linked story as the source... that's a potential red flag.

That said... even if just the words in quotes attributed to the douche officer are correct... and everything else is made up... there's some serious explaining to do. Dude said a lot of wrong things. I'm hopeful that some other "news" outlets will pick this up and investigate further... but we'll see.
 
2013-07-20 07:44:43 PM

TuteTibiImperes: vudutek: TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

SO, all the cops need to do is laser-sight the occupants to get someone to scream, and warrants are no longer required? And you seem to be ok with this?

The courts have long held that warrantless searches are legal if there are exigent circumstances, such as the officer's belief that someone is in mortal danger.

The officer at the door did not likely know that the woman was screaming because she possibly saw another officer through the window.  To his knowledge he was in an area where there was a reported fugitive, and there was a woman screaming in terror inside of her apartment.  It was his duty to protect the public safety to enter that apartment to make sure she wasn't being murdered, raped, etc.

Everything that came afterward seems to be SOP because there was a gun pointed at the officer and someone else in the apartment who (as far as the officer knew) may have been responsible for why she was screaming.


The cop MADE the woman scream. To put it another way, cop stands outside and shoots someone inside. He now gets to enter the residence because "shots have been fired inside". No, the law doesn't work that way.
 
2013-07-20 07:44:47 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

And yet the officer stated he entered because they didn't open up proving the guy was in there

It's possible he heard the screaming as well and that's one of the reasons he was concerned that no one opened the door.  We don't know every detail of how it happened, so there's no reasons to assume that the officers actions were malicious.  Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.


Uhhhh, what benefit of the doubt. He clearly stated it himself in the interview. God, you -are- a moron.
 
2013-07-20 07:46:02 PM

Bravo Two: TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

And yet the officer stated he entered because they didn't open up proving the guy was in there

It's possible he heard the screaming as well and that's one of the reasons he was concerned that no one opened the door.  We don't know every detail of how it happened, so there's no reasons to assume that the officers actions were malicious.  Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Uhhhh, what benefit of the doubt. He clearly stated it himself in the interview. God, you -are- a moron.


One statement based on one interview in one article does not the full story make.
 
2013-07-20 07:46:08 PM

Smackledorfer: Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.

These threads are 99% derp from both sides. Do you expect to reach anyone with this post? :)


Personally, I'm okay with this. Better that a hundred guilty men go free than an innocent be harmed.
 
2013-07-20 07:46:12 PM

bhcompy: Cops aren't your friends or your enemies, they're just strangers with guns.  How do you treat strangers with guns that you meet?


I've met plenty of strangers with guns at the range.

One or two were dumb enough I though they might shoot me by accident, but I didn't think any of them would kill me deliberately.  I can't say the same about Cops I've met.
 
2013-07-20 07:46:24 PM
The problem is society WANTS and NEEDS assholes like these to be cops. We need the jerk A- type personality. We all have a given set of personality traits that make us who we are. We can't just switch our being based on certain circumstances we encounter.
This asshole is a US Marshall on a serious fugitive hunt. This event is a societal and law enforcement paradox.

Ask yourself this? can someone with a demure, laidback, non aggressive, really easy going personality be effective at his job? Do you even want someone like this to hunt down really bad people? The answer is NO we actually want and expect assholes to be cops because ironically by definition to catch assholes you're most likely one yourself.
 
2013-07-20 07:46:48 PM

Bacontastesgood: Maybe someday the prick cop will have a warrantless knock on his door with a tac team and a red dot on his forehead.


God does sometimes serve up that kind of ironic justice.
 
2013-07-20 07:47:28 PM

Weaver95: I don't think anyone really wants to stop and admit to themselves just how terrified our culture is these days.  one more big terror scare and that might be enough to push our culture over the edge into psychotic paranoia.


might?
have you seen a teaparty rally?
:D
 
2013-07-20 07:47:34 PM

Smackledorfer: Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.

These threads are 99% derp from both sides. Do you expect to reach anyone with this post? :)


*sigh*
Hope springs eternal. Hey, I reached YOU.

Anyway, I'm going to a seminar next weekend where we'll be talking about stuff like this; I need to keep my mind and rhetoric sharp.
 
2013-07-20 07:48:01 PM
Wow, the paranoia in this thread from otherwise reasonable farkers is palpable.

If you're this scared of the police, then maybe they should be abolished.
 
2013-07-20 07:48:05 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two: TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

And yet the officer stated he entered because they didn't open up proving the guy was in there

It's possible he heard the screaming as well and that's one of the reasons he was concerned that no one opened the door.  We don't know every detail of how it happened, so there's no reasons to assume that the officers actions were malicious.  Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Uhhhh, what benefit of the doubt. He clearly stated it himself in the interview. God, you -are- a moron.

One statement based on one interview in one article does not the full story make.


When it is a self admission by the officer who committed the act it is.

This was not a third party witness. This was not the victim. This was the cop himself stating his justification for bursting in. I'm sure if he had done it based on screaming, he would have said so. Take the cop's dick out of your mouth. Cops are not our friends, and they state their intentions clearly over and over again.
 
2013-07-20 07:48:20 PM
This wouldn't be necessary if the police didn't have to worry about citizens with guns. Without that threat, the police could have been in and out quickly. You GunNuttersTMare going to get some innocent people killed.
 
2013-07-20 07:48:37 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.


Fyi to those so upset at tutetibilmperes here:

If he is trolling he managed to snag you all with a bunch of if-then statements whose 'tgen' you are trying to apply to situations which you disagree that the 'if' was present. Are you really all this stupid?

Farkers, once cops are mentioned they get so emotional that the most basic of logical structures is beyond their understanding. You guys get as dumb as the tea party when it comes to these threads.
 
2013-07-20 07:49:05 PM

Weaver95: I have friends of mine who believe themselves to be fierce conservatives and believe that government should be extremely limited....and yet they blindly support the war on drugs and the war on terror, believing that the bill of rights is an impediment and that we can trust law enforcement not to abuse it's authority over us. I personally don't understand their mindset but there you go.


The one that gets me is the same people that don't think the government can handle a sewer replacement job without farking it up, totally believe the government can try and put people to death without farking it up.  Reminds me of stuff I've read about life in the Soviet Gulag.  There were always these true believers/good communists who thought somehow it was all a big mistake they were locked up and at some point the powers that be were going to realize this and they would get out.

I have a personal rule and every time I ignore it I get burned. If you see someone do something to someone else, just wait and they'll do it to you to eventually.
 
2013-07-20 07:49:44 PM

Bravo Two: Smackledorfer: Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.

These threads are 99% derp from both sides. Do you expect to reach anyone with this post? :)

Personally, I'm okay with this. Better that a hundred guilty men go free than an innocent be harmed.


I'd be OK with it as well, with an exception being made for situations in which there is believed to be a victim in danger inside.  I'm also fully onboard with rather seeing one hundred guilty go free that one innocent convicted.

I'm all for checks and balances against the system, but I'd rather take the compassionate position and not assume that something was done out of malice, and that there's always more to the story than what we hear in media blurbs.
 
2013-07-20 07:50:13 PM

IlGreven: Wow, the paranoia in this thread from otherwise reasonable farkers is palpable.

If you're this scared of the police, then maybe they should be abolished.


I've been saying that for years, along with the war on drugs.
 
2013-07-20 07:50:29 PM

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: FTFA:Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

That sounds like a threat to me.I have a feeling that if there's a lawsuit, there might be a one-car "accident" or she might get pulled over and a bag of meth or coke is suddenly going to materialize in her car.


I'd agree with that assessment.
When I had cause to sue the local police, my car ended up being vandalized twice within days of filing the suit, and I kept getting weird phone calls all hours of the night.

I ended up leaving the area until the suit was settled, out of fears that I'd end up with an unexplained sack of meth in the car, or worse.
 
2013-07-20 07:50:34 PM

Smackledorfer: TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.

Fyi to those so upset at tutetibilmperes here:

If he is trolling he managed to snag you all with a bunch of if-then statements whose 'tgen' you are trying to apply to situations which you disagree that the 'if' was present. Are you really all this stupid?

Farkers, once cops are mentioned they get so emotional that the most basic of logical structures is beyond their understanding. You guys get as dumb as the tea party when it comes to these threads.


Have you been chewing on lead paint?
 
2013-07-20 07:50:57 PM

yet_another_wumpus: Quick question about "home invasions".

I don't think I ever heard the term before the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping, now it is on local news like a talking point (of course, it is). Do they really happen (other than SWAT team raids)?


Google News "Home invasion"
 
2013-07-20 07:51:28 PM
I bet prior to this encounter she was another water carrier for authority.  As is most of the people in our country -until they have something like this hit close to home.

The prevalence for these types of encounters correlates highly along class, with the lower classes seeing it much more frequently.  Those behind gated communities will likely never have to worry about it.  And that is by design.

But it's not class warfare. /snark
 
2013-07-20 07:54:25 PM

JerkyMeat: TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

Fascist


"Fascism."
 
2013-07-20 07:56:22 PM

yet_another_wumpus: Quick question about "home invasions".

I don't think I ever heard the term before the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping,


I think the phase was coined some time in the mid or late 90's but the act itself is even older than the Manson Tate/LaBianca killings.
 
2013-07-20 07:56:43 PM

Gyrfalcon: Smackledorfer: Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.

These threads are 99% derp from both sides. Do you expect to reach anyone with this post? :)

*sigh*
Hope springs eternal. Hey, I reached YOU.

Anyway, I'm going to a seminar next weekend where we'll be talking about stuff like this; I need to keep my mind and rhetoric sharp.


That should be fun. No knock warrants are stupid and some day people will realize drugs aren't a big deal. Exigent circumstances will always exist, though obviously 'nobody let us in' really shouldn't be considered a valid reason to enter.
 
2013-07-20 07:57:36 PM

See You Next Tuesday: ThatDarkFellow: If Obama had a pack of thugs destroying civil liberty they would look like these gentleman

If Fark had a village idiot he would type something about Obama out of the clear blue.


So you hold Obama completely unaccountable for the continued police over reach in our nation?

Son, you need Jesus.
 
2013-07-20 07:58:17 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two: Smackledorfer: Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.

These threads are 99% derp from both sides. Do you expect to reach anyone with this post? :)

Personally, I'm okay with this. Better that a hundred guilty men go free than an innocent be harmed.

I'd be OK with it as well, with an exception being made for situations in which there is believed to be a victim in danger inside.  I'm also fully onboard with rather seeing one hundred guilty go free that one innocent convicted.

I'm all for checks and balances against the system, but I'd rather take the compassionate position and not assume that something was done out of malice, and that there's always more to the story than what we hear in media blurbs.


Nothing was done out of malice, it was done out of an overblown sense of authority. The cop had to get his man and used every excuse to find him, legal or not. These people got caught in the way when they didn't immediately comply.

The problem is not malice on behalf of the cops, most act this way because they believe its for the common good. The problem is that they exercise their authority far beyond their legal mandate, doing harm to the citizenry at large for dubious gain, and have come to expect a synabulent public who will go along with it. Cops, like politicians, are there to serve the people and act only when they are given cause by way of a warrant or direct threat. Exigent circumstances are the slippery slope between having actual probable cause and merely having to come up with a decent excuse.
 
2013-07-20 07:58:20 PM

TuteTibiImperes: The article states that she was never arrested, and while it doesn't explicitly state that he wasn't, it say that they just handcuffed him for half an hour while they searched then released him, I'm assume that he was just detained as well and not arrested.


That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.
 
2013-07-20 07:58:37 PM
fark cops; that is all.
 
2013-07-20 07:59:29 PM

Smackledorfer: Gyrfalcon: Smackledorfer: Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.

These threads are 99% derp from both sides. Do you expect to reach anyone with this post? :)

*sigh*
Hope springs eternal. Hey, I reached YOU.

Anyway, I'm going to a seminar next weekend where we'll be talking about stuff like this; I need to keep my mind and rhetoric sharp.

That should be fun. No knock warrants are stupid and some day people will realize drugs aren't a big deal. Exigent circumstances will always exist, though obviously 'nobody let us in' really shouldn't be considered a valid reason to enter.


Nor should "smells like marijuana" or "I heard something."
 
2013-07-20 07:59:29 PM

Hobodeluxe: the cop never said he heard her scream he said they went in because they didn't open the door right away


Strangely enough, the cops are forbidden from entering your property without a warrant. Period.
The only exception is exigent circumstances. 
They SAW the bad guy run in.
They thought your were going to destroy evidence. (which I always thought was lame)
Clear and present danger to kids in the house.

"Never heard her scream."
Um, no problem, just replay your audio recording and video recording of the event for the judge.
You dont have one? No problem. You are guilty of breaking and entering. Go directly to jail.
TADA

problem solved
/we are so farked in america. those AHOLES biatching about Obama are happy with the police acting like this? WHY???? AHOLESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
 
2013-07-20 07:59:45 PM
As one of the few people in the thread absolutely condemning the Boston PD's actions and pointing out that they had no warrant and they didn't have probable cause to believe that the suspect was in ALL of the houses they searched (warrants must be for a PARTICULAR place and person, as specified by the 4th Amendment), and someone who got just lambasted like I was supporting the terror suspects for saying that I didn't think the 4th Amendment should be suspended all willy nilly just because it's an "emergency"... fark all of you who said it wouldn't happen again, when the cops bust into your home, I hope they shoot your dogs and leave you traumatized... it's what you deserve for supporting this kind of asshattery of the highest degree.
 
2013-07-20 08:00:36 PM

fnordfocus: TuteTibiImperes: The article states that she was never arrested, and while it doesn't explicitly state that he wasn't, it say that they just handcuffed him for half an hour while they searched then released him, I'm assume that he was just detained as well and not arrested.

That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.


Lying once again?

Of course you are.
 
2013-07-20 08:00:44 PM

namatad: Hobodeluxe: the cop never said he heard her scream he said they went in because they didn't open the door right away

Strangely enough, the cops are forbidden from entering your property without a warrant. Period.
The only exception is exigent circumstances. 
They SAW the bad guy run in.
They thought your were going to destroy evidence. (which I always thought was lame)
Clear and present danger to kids in the house.

"Never heard her scream."
Um, no problem, just replay your audio recording and video recording of the event for the judge.
You dont have one? No problem. You are guilty of breaking and entering. Go directly to jail.
TADA

problem solved
/we are so farked in america. those AHOLES biatching about Obama are happy with the police acting like this? WHY???? AHOLESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS


I for one am not okay with it, and also biatch about Obama, the NSA, etc.
 
2013-07-20 08:00:57 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: davidphogan: Shostie: Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.

I have nothing against Stewart Copeland.

Really... he's an asshole.


I don't know much about him other than the fact that he's a fantastic drummer.

But he does come off as a bit of a dick.
 
2013-07-20 08:02:30 PM
You get what you (don't) vote for, America.
 
2013-07-20 08:02:59 PM
This is why I have claymore anti-personnel mines built into all the external corners and both sides of all the entry doors of my house facing outward. Anybody out there playing cowboy with my constitutional rights ... POP gets it.

/They're also installed in the rear quarter panels and doors of my vehicles.
//Haha, LOL, just kidding. This is fark, right?
 
2013-07-20 08:03:21 PM

yet_another_wumpus: Do they really happen (other than SWAT team raids)?


Short answer, yes, there was a rash of home invasion type robberies (mostly targeting seniors) in the 90s when the term was coined. They're not making the news very much these days, but they're still apparently happening from time to time.
 
2013-07-20 08:03:22 PM
But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

Exercise of civil rights does not constitute probable cause. Remember that, folks.
 
2013-07-20 08:04:18 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.


cops have to justify having all the swat team jobs.   If not enough people are robbing banks, they need to just that swat gear elsewhere.   Use it or lose it.. welcome to Govt spending.
 
2013-07-20 08:04:34 PM

Enemabag Jones: The complete unmarked vehicles with civilian plates is used alot during prime time DWI hours to find drunk people.


And also leads to dead civilians who pull over for fake cops because we've been conditioned that Police Officers don't need to identify themselves.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_9430905

Plus, I just saw a murdered out Dodge Durango police vehicle with civilian plates.  It's designed to stand out, not blend in, and it's a waste of quite a bit of taxpayer money.
 
2013-07-20 08:04:57 PM
I find this interesting that this encounter happened after 8PM and there were 30 officers involved, how much overtime is that?

IMHO, I suspect something had to be done or federal overtime reimbursement may have been refused, so you get this.
 
2013-07-20 08:05:02 PM

cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.


But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....
 
2013-07-20 08:05:05 PM

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


Sorry but the US marshall didn't say any of that.  What he SAID was that because they didn't immediately open the door, the suspect must be inside.  The marshal violated their rights to privacy and seized them without a warrant.  I see dollar signs in their future.
 
2013-07-20 08:05:23 PM
One troll. One thread. One victory.
i18.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-20 08:06:40 PM
is this the thread where I say fark the police?

/ducks
 
2013-07-20 08:09:10 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: This is why I have claymore anti-personnel mines built into all the external corners and both sides of all the entry doors of my house facing outward. Anybody out there playing cowboy with my constitutional rights ... POP gets it.

/They're also installed in the rear quarter panels and doors of my vehicles.
//Haha, LOL, just kidding. This is fark, right?


I would assume you're kidding. Otherwise the meter readers and random raccoons would be constantly blowing up the sides of your house.
 
2013-07-20 08:09:42 PM

jso2897: One troll. One thread. One victory.


The sad thing is, I'm convinced he's not trolling, just that stuffed up the law's ass.
 
2013-07-20 08:10:16 PM

AngryDragon: cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.

But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....


Slippery slope is not a valid argument unless you can connect the dots.

Why this is so hard for people to grasp I have no idea, but I am sure you could find a dumbed down explanation with a quick googling if you or anyone else is having trouble.
 
2013-07-20 08:10:19 PM
I learned something new today. Apparently, all the police need to do to legally enter a residence is to dress in non-identifiable clothing and aim a weapon at an unsuspecting female. When that female starts screaming you are A-OK to break into the residence.

Wtf? Since when can police site a situation that they caused as sufficient reason to break into a house?
 
2013-07-20 08:11:17 PM

MooseUpNorth: yet_another_wumpus: Do they really happen (other than SWAT team raids)?

Short answer, yes, there was a rash of home invasion type robberies (mostly targeting seniors) in the 90s when the term was coined. They're not making the news very much these days, but they're still apparently happening from time to time.


Seriously?

A quick Google News search for "home invasion" yields 10 stories in the last 24 hours.  Given that it is about the most violent act that can be committed to you at home by perfect strangers, I would consider 10 a day to be a lot more than "from time to time"
 
2013-07-20 08:11:35 PM

Gyrfalcon: HotIgneous Intruder: This is why I have claymore anti-personnel mines built into all the external corners and both sides of all the entry doors of my house facing outward. Anybody out there playing cowboy with my constitutional rights ... POP gets it.

/They're also installed in the rear quarter panels and doors of my vehicles.
//Haha, LOL, just kidding. This is fark, right?

I would assume you're kidding. Otherwise the meter readers and random raccoons would be constantly blowing up the sides of your house.


At least the coon population is next to nil in his location, and garbage cans are safe from their midnight scavenging raids.

/of course I'm talking about the furry rodents.
 
2013-07-20 08:11:36 PM

Smackledorfer: That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.

Lying once again?


I'm guessing you've never had to taint yourself by filling out a job application?

Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.
 
2013-07-20 08:12:18 PM

Gyrfalcon: HotIgneous Intruder: This is why I have claymore anti-personnel mines built into all the external corners and both sides of all the entry doors of my house facing outward. Anybody out there playing cowboy with my constitutional rights ... POP gets it.

/They're also installed in the rear quarter panels and doors of my vehicles.
//Haha, LOL, just kidding. This is fark, right?

I would assume you're kidding. Otherwise the meter readers and random raccoons would be constantly blowing up the sides of your house.


Why would you even need to assume I'm kidding about something like that?
/Oh, this is fark.
Like I said, just kidding.
 
2013-07-20 08:12:26 PM

jso2897: One troll. One thread. One victory.


One troll? You must have a more extensive ignore list than I.
 
2013-07-20 08:14:24 PM

Smackledorfer: AngryDragon: cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.

But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....

Slippery slope is not a valid argument unless you can connect the dots.

Why this is so hard for people to grasp I have no idea, but I am sure you could find a dumbed down explanation with a quick googling if you or anyone else is having trouble.


I think it's fair to say that our government has used many excuses over the years to ratchet up the level of bullshiat people will accept. After all, they successfully got invasive screening at the airport to be welcomed. And I hear in NYC people are OK with cops randomly stopping people and searching them.
 
2013-07-20 08:15:03 PM

Shostie: Pray 4 Mojo: davidphogan: Shostie: Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.

I have nothing against Stewart Copeland.

Really... he's an asshole.

I don't know much about him other than the fact that he's a fantastic drummer.

But he does come off as a bit of a dick.


Incredible drummer. He's one of the reasons I started playing as a kid. Met him... and not as a fan running up in a mall or a staged meet and greet mind you... the dude is one of the biggest assholes I've ever had the displeasure of sharing 5 minutes with. It was disappointing.
 
2013-07-20 08:15:27 PM

AngryDragon: Seriously?


*shrug* They're not hitting my radar very often. I live somewhere sane.
 
2013-07-20 08:15:36 PM

Smackledorfer: jso2897: One troll. One thread. One victory.

One troll? You must have a more extensive ignore list than I.


I'm a troll now?
 
2013-07-20 08:15:43 PM
kill any farker that busts through your door before they kill you
 
2013-07-20 08:16:19 PM

Gyrfalcon: I would assume you're kidding. Otherwise the meter readers and random raccoons would be constantly blowing up the sides of your house.


And anyway, if I did it, they surely would not be set with trip wires, but most certainly hard wired to switches remotely accessible from numerous locations and/or panels in any of the several tunnels .... oops.
 
2013-07-20 08:16:22 PM

MooseUpNorth: AngryDragon: Seriously?

*shrug* They're not hitting my radar very often. I live somewhere sane.


And by sane you mean fairly affluent, upper middle class?
 
2013-07-20 08:17:39 PM

fnordfocus: Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.


Well, it is easier to get a gun that get a job, so there's that.
 
2013-07-20 08:18:33 PM

Smackledorfer: AngryDragon: cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.

But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....

Slippery slope is not a valid argument unless you can connect the dots.

Why this is so hard for people to grasp I have no idea, but I am sure you could find a dumbed down explanation with a quick googling if you or anyone else is having trouble.


Dot One:

farm4.static.flickr.com

Dot Two:

media.utsandiego.com
 
2013-07-20 08:18:36 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: the dude is one of the biggest assholes I've ever had the displeasure of sharing 5 minutes with. It was disappointing.


Well... He IS a drummer...
 
2013-07-20 08:19:06 PM

fnordfocus: Smackledorfer: That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.

Lying once again?

I'm guessing you've never had to taint yourself by filling out a job application?

Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.


Like I said, you are making shiat up. It is hillarious that you feel you have to. It would be easy enough to fill threads with accurate criticism of law enforcement.

Terry stops and contacts with officers are not arrests, and do not show up on criminal history checks. No one gets booked, given fbi numbers, or entered into databases for any background checkers to access or read.
 
2013-07-20 08:19:57 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Gyrfalcon: I would assume you're kidding. Otherwise the meter readers and random raccoons would be constantly blowing up the sides of your house.

And anyway, if I did it, they surely would not be set with trip wires, but most certainly hard wired to switches remotely accessible from numerous locations and/or panels in any of the several tunnels .... oops.


You're a shoe in to be the cover of Internet Tough Guy Magazine.
 
2013-07-20 08:20:09 PM

Bravo Two: MooseUpNorth: AngryDragon: Seriously?

*shrug* They're not hitting my radar very often. I live somewhere sane.

And by sane you mean fairly affluent, upper middle class?


By sane, I mean 'not the US'.
 
2013-07-20 08:22:03 PM

Shostie: Pray 4 Mojo: the dude is one of the biggest assholes I've ever had the displeasure of sharing 5 minutes with. It was disappointing.

Well... He IS a drummer...


I admit it... I laughed.
 
2013-07-20 08:22:19 PM

MooseUpNorth: Bravo Two: MooseUpNorth: AngryDragon: Seriously?

*shrug* They're not hitting my radar very often. I live somewhere sane.

And by sane you mean fairly affluent, upper middle class?

By sane, I mean 'not the US'.


How do you flick a weasels nose with a car aerial while driving? That's pretty damn impressive.
 
2013-07-20 08:22:30 PM

fnordfocus: Smackledorfer: That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.

Lying once again?

I'm guessing you've never had to taint yourself by filling out a job application?

Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.


You apparently haven't. They ask you if you've been convicted of a felony. I've also seen them ask if you've been convicted of a crime that was punishable by more than a year in prison, but I'd say 95% of the job application I've filled out only refer to felonies. But to your point, even a detention or contact wouldn't prevent someone from hiring you, and they don't show up on background checks. I know. I've seen the full printout of border background checks and typical job background checks. Only things they've processed you for will show up unless it is some type of drinking ticket. Basically unless you've got the option for a court date, it isn't going to show up.
 
2013-07-20 08:24:33 PM

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: FTFA:Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

That sounds like a threat to me.I have a feeling that if there's a lawsuit, there might be a one-car "accident" or she might get pulled over and a bag of meth or coke is suddenly going to materialize in her car.


It might behoove the lady to activate copious amounts of audio and video surveillance equipment on her person and wherever she should travel.

/ A get a BIG farkin' dog or two or three.
 
2013-07-20 08:25:16 PM

Boojum2k: How do you flick a weasels nose with a car aerial while driving? That's pretty damn impressive.


*lol* I never noticed I'd farked up that clause in my profile. I don't know if I want to fix it or leave it be. ... Er... I mean, very small car.
 
2013-07-20 08:25:29 PM

Smirky the Wonder Chimp: Weaver95: thamike: shanrick: Weaver95:

The idea that more than one person can be involved and that, the larger the organization, the easier it becomes for anyone working for that organization to deny that they have any personal responsibility in what that organization DOES, is completely foreign to them, and I've given up trying to explain it to them.  It only sends them into a frothing rage.


That's OK Smirky, you are among friends here.  Did you see that the TSA has announced it learned of a new underwear bomb technique?  The announcement is part of conditioning the public for the introduction of some new way to look in people's pants at airports, bus stations, etc.  I for one am prepared to stand at attention, so to speak, and drop trou for our TSA overlords.
 
2013-07-20 08:26:12 PM

Gyrfalcon: HotIgneous Intruder: This is why I have claymore anti-personnel mines built into all the external corners and both sides of all the entry doors of my house facing outward. Anybody out there playing cowboy with my constitutional rights ... POP gets it.

/They're also installed in the rear quarter panels and doors of my vehicles.
//Haha, LOL, just kidding. This is fark, right?

I would assume you're kidding. Otherwise the meter readers and random raccoons would be constantly blowing up the sides of your house.


He's either kidding, a very stupid felon, or a very stupid and rich felon.

Claymores are Destructive Devices. He's gonna need a $200 tax stamp on each of them, assuming he can find a licensed maker willing to sell actual Claymores. Without that tax stamp, he's looking at 25+ years per mine, regardless of how they're rigged.

Now, let's assume he's rich enough not to sweat the costs of the dozen or so mines and their tax stamps, and well-connected enough to legally find them for sale. If he isn't storing them in an ATF-approved magazine that they can inspect at any time, then he's in violation of the law again.

So it's pretty safe to assume he's kidding, unless he's absolutely desperate enough to get his first greenlight on Fark that he's willing to be the article.
 
2013-07-20 08:26:32 PM

MooseUpNorth: By sane, I mean 'not the US'.


I would like to subscribe to your country.
 
2013-07-20 08:28:21 PM

Bravo Two: MooseUpNorth: AngryDragon: Seriously?

*shrug* They're not hitting my radar very often. I live somewhere sane.

And by sane you mean fairly affluent, upper middle class?


I live in a fairly affluent, upper middle class area.  Three armed men on a spree chose my house at 5 in the morning as their next target 6 years ago.  I assure you, location is not an insulator.

That incident is also the reason why I would NEVER give up my firearms.  They are the only things that saved my family that night.  I can't believe that the police are stupid enough, with this country armed as it is, to do no-knock warrants.
 
2013-07-20 08:28:44 PM

MooseUpNorth: Boojum2k: How do you flick a weasels nose with a car aerial while driving? That's pretty damn impressive.

*lol* I never noticed I'd farked up that clause in my profile. I don't know if I want to fix it or leave it be. ... Er... I mean, very small car.


Leave it as it is, makes for a good drinking story.
 
2013-07-20 08:28:46 PM
I thank the non-existent deity every day that I live in a city where the cops tend to be watched like hawks and that they're fairly polite. Even busted a few of their own for some pretty heinous shiat. Oh cops have knocked - and when they knock you grab your keys and lock the door behind you. Then go out the door and CLOSE it behind you. You NEVER let a cop in your house, unless they present a warrant.
 
2013-07-20 08:29:03 PM

fnordfocus: I'm guessing you've never had to taint yourself by filling out a job application?

Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.


Sorry, but you're wrong.  First, in the USA asking about arrest records is generally not permissible.  Aside from state laws against such questions in job interviews, the EEOC also has made it clear that asking this is a good for an employer to get sued, and lose.

Second, most background checks are actually "criminal record checks"; they don't have access to general police records, only court records (charged, indicted, convicted, etc).  A detention or "contact" without any charges filed doesn't appear in court records.
 
2013-07-20 08:30:07 PM

vudutek: TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

SO, all the cops need to do is laser-sight the occupants to get someone to scream, and warrants are no longer required? And you seem to be ok with this?


sure. as long as its not in his neighborhood, and they limit it to mainly those blah people.
 
2013-07-20 08:30:28 PM

Bravo Two: Smackledorfer: AngryDragon: cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.

But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....

Slippery slope is not a valid argument unless you can connect the dots.

Why this is so hard for people to grasp I have no idea, but I am sure you could find a dumbed down explanation with a quick googling if you or anyone else is having trouble.

I think it's fair to say that our government has used many excuses over the years to ratchet up the level of bullshiat people will accept. After all, they successfully got invasive screening at the airport to be welcomed. And I hear in NYC people are OK with cops randomly stopping people and searching them.


I don't know where exactly youae going with this so forgive me if I am inferring something you aren't saying.

I have no reason to think, unless I ignore the effects of increased national news access and everyone carrying cameras around, that police are worse now on average than they were a fifty years ago or fifty more before that.

Incidents are more salient, which is good, but comes with it the responsibility to be more reasonable in our understanding of available statistics. I have reason to think the cops in NYC aren't better behaved now than in the gangs of new york times. I may hate the way some cops treated OWS but let us admit it was much better than some of the things hippies, or blacks, protesting in the past had to endure. And in the country I doubt there were ever any Andy griffiths, but more like a heck of a lot of Walking Talls.

People act like the corruption is new, but I doubt it, and we have the strongest ability to work against that we have ever had.

In the long run, we have even seen multiple expansions of the 4th amendment.
 
2013-07-20 08:32:25 PM

red5ish: Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

No she shouldn't. She should go to a nice law firm and see if she can sue. If this sort of behavior is costly to the police they will modify their behavior.


they will indeed learn to modify their behavior - they will learn to suicide and one-car accident those people before they can get a court date.
 
2013-07-20 08:32:37 PM

Bravo Two: Smackledorfer: jso2897: One troll. One thread. One victory.

One troll? You must have a more extensive ignore list than I.

I'm a troll now?


I was in no way, shape, or form mentioning you. How did you come to that conclusion?
 
2013-07-20 08:32:47 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Weaver95: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

so all the cops gotta do is make up some bullshiat about exigent circumstances and you're good with them violating your rights?

I wouldn't be cool with them making something up, no.  In this case however she admitted herself she was screaming her lungs out.  Ideally in the case of an illegal search where the officer stated that he heard something/smelled something that was evidence of a crime there would be some witnesses to back that story up and you would be able to have the search thrown out in court if it came to that.

Even better, we could expect officers of the law to not make shiat up (there will always be some bad apples, but from my experience the majority aren't corrupt).


cor·rupt /kəˈrəpt/ Adjective 1. Having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.

Either you live in the land of unicorn farts and rainbows, or you do not know the definition of corrupt which is why I presented it to you. Corruption can occur both by a corrupt individual or those in support of the corrupt individual by not truthfully reporting said corruption. Don't bother, I have heard all the arguments against what I just said, and my response will always be: man up nancy boy and stand for your principles, or be counted with the corrupt.
 
2013-07-20 08:35:17 PM
Police are largely thugs with a paycheck.  They serve and protect their steroid fueled egos sand when they f*ck the dog, sh*t the bed with absolutely nothing resembling probable cause, or are "forced" to jerk around a few people defending themselves from home invasions, they get time off with pay.  And if you're fine with that, you have my sympathies, but it's the same sort of sympathy you keep for clinically challenged people who are fine with sitting in their own sh*t because "it doesn't smell that bad".
 
2013-07-20 08:35:25 PM
Oh yeah, this marshall gonna get sued. The final comment about not going to the press is admitting he done f'ed up. If he knows he truly did the right thing with his actions that day, he wouldn't care.
 
2013-07-20 08:36:12 PM

sheumack: YoOjo: What is it with you people and your obsessions with 'freedom'?
The USA is one of the least 'free' places in the first world, we're just sold an illusion that we're free in order to placate us and keep us on the same side as the authorities.
Either wake up and smell the mushroom tea, and in the process accept that you're not 'free', or keep drinking the Kool Aid, but please stop harping on about civil liberties or losses of freedom.
The police are employed to control you, let them do that or pay the consequences.

This.

Get out. Spend some time wandering around Western Europe or Australia, and start to see how other systems work - even without a bill of rights or the freedom to carry a concealed weapon in public. Look at how criminals are prosecuted in criminal courts rather than judge under civil rules where the winner is the guy with the most expensive lawyer.


I'm already eager to leave the U.S. but can't until

1. I finish my PhD; and
2. find a good enough job outside the country that I can support my family without need of my husband working (his dream is to be a house husband).

Fortunately, I'm getting a PhD in physics, so there's a non-zero probability I could get a job offer outside the US.  In addition, I'm quick to learn new languages, so I'm not afraid to end up in a non-English speaking country.
 
2013-07-20 08:38:33 PM
AngryDragon: Smackledorfer: AngryDragon: cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.

But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....


The devil's greatest trick was convincing everyone he doesn't exist.
 
2013-07-20 08:39:41 PM

AngryDragon: Bravo Two: MooseUpNorth: AngryDragon: Seriously?

*shrug* They're not hitting my radar very often. I live somewhere sane.

And by sane you mean fairly affluent, upper middle class?

I live in a fairly affluent, upper middle class area.  Three armed men on a spree chose my house at 5 in the morning as their next target 6 years ago.  I assure you, location is not an insulator.

That incident is also the reason why I would NEVER give up my firearms.  They are the only things that saved my family that night.  I can't believe that the police are stupid enough, with this country armed as it is, to do no-knock warrants.


Are you talking about the case at hand? This was the opposite of a no-knock warrant. This was a knock first then break in and terrorize the occupants non-warrant.
 
2013-07-20 08:40:05 PM

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


Why nut just place a woman behind any house you want to search. Have her open a box to see your Sgt Cockroach.  She can scream.. then you can send the cops into the house basically because you heard a woman scream and there might be a felony occurring inside.

Warrants... who needs em.?
 
2013-07-20 08:40:32 PM
And this is why you stay as far the fark away from cops when they're running around the apartment building where you live. Turn off the lights,close the curtains and try to relax until they're done farking around.
 
2013-07-20 08:40:52 PM
What I don't understand...even if they were looking for a kiddie rapist...they didn't say he was armed and dangerous..

/cops were worried he was going to fight them off with his wiener?
 
2013-07-20 08:41:17 PM

TuteTibiImperes: fnordfocus:

Never mind the fact, that even without a lawsuit or going to the press, this is two more people with an arrest record who are now unemployable, ineligible for welfare benefits, etc.

The article states that she was never arrested, and while it doesn't explicitly state that he wasn't, it say that they just handcuffed him for half an hour while they searched then released him, I'm assume that he was just detained as well and not arrested.


That must be a huge apartment that it takes them a half hour to determine that no other people are present.
 
2013-07-20 08:42:38 PM

A Terrible Human: And this is why you stay as far the fark away from cops when they're running around the apartment building where you live. Turn off the lights,close the curtains and try to relax until they're done farking around.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-07-20 08:43:55 PM

fnordfocus: OtherLittleGuy: Yup.... and after a few more of these, a group of criminals will kelvar up, raid a place as "police", and they're be able to get in and out without incident, until the local police find out, "hey! that wasn't OUR raid!"

It's been done.  In one case, the dispatcher actually ordered a victim to open the door because the perps identified the were "FBI."  Then, they killed her.

And cases like this, where Officers don't think badges and uniforms make them look badass enough, only make it easier.  Where I live only a minority of Police wear clearly identifiable uniforms, and they're trending towards unmarked vehicles with civilian plates.


I remember hearing about cartels doing that in San Diego to kidnap people.
 
2013-07-20 08:44:04 PM

OhioUGrad: What I don't understand...even if they were looking for a kiddie rapist...they didn't say he was armed and dangerous..

/cops were worried he was going to fight them off with his wiener?


It isn't a bad idea to assume someone willing to assault an innocent child for pleasure might get desperate if he was facing prison time.
 
2013-07-20 08:44:15 PM

ManateeGag: Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.

what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


I've had the cops pounding on my door at 2 a.m. and when I finally answered the door (took a few minutes to run down if I had done anything illegal) I look out to 3 police cars and 2 cops with their guns drawn. Oops they have the wrong address they want the townhouse across from me. Thanks for scaring the crap out of me.
 
2013-07-20 08:44:37 PM

bunner: A Terrible Human: And this is why you stay as far the fark away from cops when they're running around the apartment building where you live. Turn off the lights,close the curtains and try to relax until they're done farking around.


Around here, they make the ones who question authority or aren't supporters of the government wear special badges.
 
2013-07-20 08:45:01 PM

CliChe Guevara: red5ish: Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

No she shouldn't. She should go to a nice law firm and see if she can sue. If this sort of behavior is costly to the police they will modify their behavior.

they will indeed learn to modify their behavior - they will learn to suicide and one-car accident those people before they can get a court date.


Paranoid much?
 
2013-07-20 08:45:36 PM
Thugs wearing uniforms are still thugs.
 
2013-07-20 08:46:21 PM
Cops and recidivist criminals are essentially the same people with the same goals.  Power and money.  They see the world through the same frame.  One, we subsidize with paychecks, the other we subsidize with really sh*tty housing.  I vote we fire all of them.
 
2013-07-20 08:46:23 PM

red5ish: CliChe Guevara: red5ish: Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

No she shouldn't. She should go to a nice law firm and see if she can sue. If this sort of behavior is costly to the police they will modify their behavior.

they will indeed learn to modify their behavior - they will learn to suicide and one-car accident those people before they can get a court date.

Paranoid much?


It's not paranoid if shiat like this already happens.
 
2013-07-20 08:46:49 PM

OhioUGrad: What I don't understand...even if they were looking for a kiddie rapist...they didn't say he was armed and dangerous..

/cops were worried he was going to fight them off with his wiener?


Something else I don't understand... if you read the accompanying article (it was on the sidebar) about the kiddie rapist... the knew who he was, it's not like some kid got raped in the bushes and the rapist ran away. As far as I understand the technical term... he wasn't a 'fugitive'... they were serving an arrest warrant that was apparently pretty new. And why were the farking US Marshals there to begin with?!?
 
2013-07-20 08:48:03 PM
FTA: But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"I feel bad for her," [wannabe Stasi agent] Wiggins conceded, finally. "But at the same time, I had to reasonably believe the bad guy was in her house based on what they were doing."


Bullshiat. If I don't get up to answer the door every time somebody knocks, then I'm a criminal? I wouldn't believe that it's the cops at first as well, I would think it's someone who's up to no good trying to trick me into opening the door.

If this is a typical apartment, then there's one door in and out. If they think there's a wanted person inside, then they can wait the person out. There's no potential of evidence being destroyed to warrant their actions.

/more and more it feels like the cops are the enemy
 
2013-07-20 08:48:04 PM

Smackledorfer: Bravo Two: Smackledorfer: AngryDragon: cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.

But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....

Slippery slope is not a valid argument unless you can connect the dots.

Why this is so hard for people to grasp I have no idea, but I am sure you could find a dumbed down explanation with a quick googling if you or anyone else is having trouble.

I think it's fair to say that our government has used many excuses over the years to ratchet up the level of bullshiat people will accept. After all, they successfully got invasive screening at the airport to be welcomed. And I hear in NYC people are OK with cops randomly stopping people and searching them.

I don't know where exactly youae going with this so forgive me if I am inferring something you aren't saying.

I have no reason to think, unless I ignore the effects of increased national news access and everyone carrying cameras around, that police are worse now on average than they were a fifty years ago or fifty more before that.

Incidents are more salient, which is good, but comes with it the responsibility to be more reasonable in our understanding of available statistics. I have reason to think the cops in NYC aren't better behaved now than in the gangs of new york times. I may hate the way some cops treated OWS but let us admit it was much better than some of the things hippies, or blacks, protesting in the past had to endure. And in the country I doubt there were ever any Andy griffiths, but more like a heck of a lot of Walking Talls.

People act like the corruption is new, but I doubt it, and we have the strongest ability to work against that we have ever had.

In the long run, we have even seen multiple expansions of the 4th amendment.


You are right, if anything we're just more aware of the cops doing janky shiat. Which means that we need to combat this shiat with more vigor. Along with the NSA shiat, and the overreach of the rest of the government.
 
2013-07-20 08:48:25 PM

Bravo Two: bunner: A Terrible Human: And this is why you stay as far the fark away from cops when they're running around the apartment building where you live. Turn off the lights,close the curtains and try to relax until they're done farking around.

Around here, they make the ones who question authority or aren't supporters of the government wear special badges.


I think I've seen those.

www.ushmm.org
 
2013-07-20 08:48:29 PM
You win libs, congrats
 
2013-07-20 08:50:18 PM

Mr Rogers is aroused: Do you know how I can tell you aren't black?


To the cops, we're all escaped slaves.
 
2013-07-20 08:50:30 PM

Mr Rogers is aroused: Befuddled: FTA: But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"I feel bad for her," [wannabe Stasi agent] Wiggins conceded, finally. "But at the same time, I had to reasonably believe the bad guy was in her house based on what they were doing."

Bullshiat. If I don't get up to answer the door every time somebody knocks, then I'm a criminal? I wouldn't believe that it's the cops at first as well, I would think it's someone who's up to no good trying to trick me into opening the door.

If this is a typical apartment, then there's one door in and out. If they think there's a wanted person inside, then they can wait the person out. There's no potential of evidence being destroyed to warrant their actions.

/more and more it feels like the cops are the enemy

Do you know how I can tell you aren't black?


He's just now coming to this conclusion?
 
2013-07-20 08:51:38 PM

bunner: Mr Rogers is aroused: Do you know how I can tell you aren't black?

To the cops, we're all escaped slaves.


No, we're all criminals. It's just that they don't have a viable reason to fark with you - yet.
 
2013-07-20 08:51:44 PM

fnordfocus: Smackledorfer: That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.

Lying once again?

I'm guessing you've never had to taint yourself by filling out a job application?

Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.


I've been detained by police over the years several times, it's never shown up on any background check I've been through related to employment.
 
2013-07-20 08:51:52 PM
Obvious tag was unavailable, as it was being held at a black site.
 
2013-07-20 08:52:42 PM

Mr Rogers is aroused: Befuddled: FTA: But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"I feel bad for her," [wannabe Stasi agent] Wiggins conceded, finally. "But at the same time, I had to reasonably believe the bad guy was in her house based on what they were doing."

Bullshiat. If I don't get up to answer the door every time somebody knocks, then I'm a criminal? I wouldn't believe that it's the cops at first as well, I would think it's someone who's up to no good trying to trick me into opening the door.

If this is a typical apartment, then there's one door in and out. If they think there's a wanted person inside, then they can wait the person out. There's no potential of evidence being destroyed to warrant their actions.

/more and more it feels like the cops are the enemy

Do you know how I can tell you aren't black?


He openly supports gay marriage ?
 
2013-07-20 08:52:52 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: I don't see a police over-reach in this. If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger. Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon. She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

8/10

It was originally 7/10... but I added a point for length.

/giggity


You're gonna have to bump that up to a solid 9.
 
2013-07-20 08:54:04 PM

Bravo Two: Mr Rogers is aroused: Befuddled: FTA: But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"I feel bad for her," [wannabe Stasi agent] Wiggins conceded, finally. "But at the same time, I had to reasonably believe the bad guy was in her house based on what they were doing."

Bullshiat. If I don't get up to answer the door every time somebody knocks, then I'm a criminal? I wouldn't believe that it's the cops at first as well, I would think it's someone who's up to no good trying to trick me into opening the door.

If this is a typical apartment, then there's one door in and out. If they think there's a wanted person inside, then they can wait the person out. There's no potential of evidence being destroyed to warrant their actions.

/more and more it feels like the cops are the enemy

Do you know how I can tell you aren't black?

He's just now coming to this conclusion?


now... now.... don't make fun of the slow kids.
www.pbase.com
 
2013-07-20 08:55:12 PM

fastbow: So it's pretty safe to assume he's kidding, unless he's absolutely desperate enough to get his first greenlight on Fark that he's willing to be the article.


WTF does that even mean?
/The authoritarian followers, they swarm like flies to shiat.
 
2013-07-20 08:55:14 PM

ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


You lead a sheltered life then. Most likely one of submissive conformity as well. Unless of course you're living in some forgotten pocket of Mayberry USA.

It really doesn't take much to be exposed to the asshole in cops these days. Just be slightly above totally submissive and it appears.
 
2013-07-20 08:55:28 PM
Like no on has ever impersonated a cop.
Here is crazy idea. Have the girl 911 and verify they are real cops.
 
2013-07-20 08:55:44 PM
Unfortunately, this is not at all the least tiny little bit surprising to me.

I am, for the most part, a law abiding goody two shoes.  I do absolutely nothing to draw attention to myself, live a quiet life, and absolutely avoid confrontation unless it's a necessity.  And out of the very few interactions I've had with police, a high proportion of them have been unpleasant to say the least.  The bad experiences have ranged from a very aggressive and belligerent cop degrading me and using profanity, cops holding me up for over 1 hour for a traffic stop for what turned out to be a misunderstanding on their part and a probably illegal search of my premises because the cops mistook hibiscus for marijuana.  In fact, the only time I was involved with a cop who was at least respectful, was when I was in violation of the law for speeding.

So, count me in with the folks who've gotten fed up.
 
2013-07-20 08:58:33 PM

stuffy: Like no on has ever impersonated a cop.
Here is crazy idea. Have the girl 911 and verify they are real cops.


Calling 911 is *probably* what I would have done as I ran for the gun, if I had one.  But something tells me the time frame, from when the woman first got alarmed to the point where the cops burst in, was so brief, calling 911 wouldn't have really changed the situation or outcome much.
 
2013-07-20 08:58:39 PM

Bravo Two: Smackledorfer: Bravo Two: Smackledorfer: AngryDragon: cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.

But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....

Slippery slope is not a valid argument unless you can connect the dots.

Why this is so hard for people to grasp I have no idea, but I am sure you could find a dumbed down explanation with a quick googling if you or anyone else is having trouble.

I think it's fair to say that our government has used many excuses over the years to ratchet up the level of bullshiat people will accept. After all, they successfully got invasive screening at the airport to be welcomed. And I hear in NYC people are OK with cops randomly stopping people and searching them.

I don't know where exactly youae going with this so forgive me if I am inferring something you aren't saying.

I have no reason to think, unless I ignore the effects of increased national news access and everyone carrying cameras around, that police are worse now on average than they were a fifty years ago or fifty more before that.

Incidents are more salient, which is good, but comes with it the responsibility to be more reasonable in our understanding of available statistics. I have reason to think the cops in NYC aren't better behaved now than in the gangs of new york times. I may hate the way some cops treated OWS but let us admit it was much better than some of the things hippies, or blacks, protesting in the past had to endure. And in the country I doubt there were ever any Andy griffiths, but more like a heck of a lot of Walking Talls.

People act like the corruption is new, but I doubt it, and we have the strongest ability to work against that we have ever had.

In the long run, we have even seen multiple expansions of the 4th amendment.

You are right, if anything we're just more aware of the cops doing janky shiat. Which means that we need to combat this shiat with more vigor. Along with the NSA shiat, and the overreach of the rest of the government.


Vigor, absolutely. Guided by logic and sanity though, which is hard to find. The problem here is that much of the vocal anti-cop side does little more than biatch about cops and doesn't come close to having a meaningful effect on the politicians. Further, a lot of our country LIKES a heavy handed police. That is a lot to overcome, but I think we are getting a bit done at a time.

Also I had a typo in my post. I have no reason to believe NYPD is worse today than in the old days. I have reason in fact to believe they are better.
 
2013-07-20 08:59:28 PM
So, are we all pro-2nd amendment now?

Or are we just going to bend over and take it when this becomes the new norm?
 
2013-07-20 08:59:54 PM
Id be fine with higher taxes if every single cop had a camera on him.  Ive not had any terrible experiences with cops but I have had a cop lie on his report about my statement.  I used to work third shift at a gas station and knew quite a few cops.  They are nice guys when they determine you arent a scumbag but they are still asses to anyone they might not like the look of.

I wouldnt mind those spider things in Minority Report.  If there is a man hunt I would rather not have cops with twitchy trigger fingers running through my building.
 
2013-07-20 09:00:46 PM

bunner: A Terrible Human: And this is why you stay as far the fark away from cops when they're running around the apartment building where you live. Turn off the lights,close the curtains and try to relax until they're done farking around.

[i.imgur.com image 746x72]


It sounds crazy but it's true. One summer during the chicken festival my mom was sitting outside and some asshole in the back apartments was running from the cops. My mom is legally blind and some fat son of a biatch cop comes up to her yelling at her to tell him where that asshole in the back went to or he'd take her to jail too. She pointed in some random direction because she didn't actually see where the guy went. She came in crying and scared. What the fark did she do to deserve to be treated like? Why should I ever respect a cop again after they did her that way? In general I'm never sad when I hear a news story about a dead cop. And yes I have cops in my family,state and county.
 
2013-07-20 09:00:53 PM
I'm about to go through a police academy, but events like this worry me. Articles like this and Radley Balko's new book (which is a great farking read, by the way) make me fear that I might have to take part in bullshiat like this.
 
2013-07-20 09:02:28 PM

A Terrible Human: And this is why you stay as far the fark away from cops when they're running around the apartment building where you live. Turn off the lights,close the curtains and try to relax until they're done farking around.


You might try the attic.
 
2013-07-20 09:02:30 PM

Aristocles: So, are we all pro-2nd amendment now?

Or are we just going to bend over and take it when this becomes the new norm?


becomes?
 
2013-07-20 09:02:48 PM

Aristocles: So, are we all pro-2nd amendment now?

Or are we just going to bend over and take it when this becomes the new norm?


You go, along with the other idiots in this thread, shoot some cops and prove your mettle.
 
2013-07-20 09:04:32 PM
Federal marshals?

Barack Obama Hitler II.
 
2013-07-20 09:05:18 PM

Aristocles: Or are we just going to bend over and take it when this becomes the new norm?


Let's check with history.

www.biography.com
img.radio.cz
cdn.theatlantic.com
randomstory.org
24.media.tumblr.com

So far, I think we're f*cked.
 
2013-07-20 09:05:30 PM
TuteTibiImperes:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I  don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


Dear Fark - the above post is an  almost perfect example of how to deceive and manipulate others while attempting to appear objective, honest and authoritative. Farkers who've experienced any sort of psychologically abusive relationship will immediately recognize the tone and techniques used in said post -  artificial empathy, repeated affirmations of authority, qualitative verbiage, inappropriate usage of the passive form, etc.  There's nothing about this post that doesn't stink of an agenda wrapped in dishonesty.

Tutes is either in law enforcement or is heavily invested in someone who is. Which is it?
 
2013-07-20 09:06:39 PM

Smackledorfer: Aristocles: So, are we all pro-2nd amendment now?

Or are we just going to bend over and take it when this becomes the new norm?

You go, along with the other idiots in this thread, shoot some cops and prove your mettle.


here you go... there is something white and sticky on your chin.
www.optco.org
 
2013-07-20 09:09:00 PM

RINO: I'm about to go through a police academy, but events like this worry me. Articles like this and Radley Balko's new book (which is a great farking read, by the way) make me fear that I might have to take part in bullshiat like this.


There will be no conflict on your part. You'll either be a man with principles and the balls to act on them or you'll be a pissy little authoritarian follower coward.
Your choice.
 
2013-07-20 09:09:26 PM

Weaver95: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

so all the cops gotta do is make up some bullshiat about exigent circumstances and you're good with them violating your rights?


Exigent circumstances?  OK!

Making up bullshiat?  Bad!
 
2013-07-20 09:10:18 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: RINO: I'm about to go through a police academy, but events like this worry me. Articles like this and Radley Balko's new book (which is a great farking read, by the way) make me fear that I might have to take part in bullshiat like this.

There will be no conflict on your part. You'll either be a man with principles and the balls to act on them or you'll be a pissy little authoritarian follower coward.
Your choice.


If you join a leper colony, your healthy immune system doesn't cure the lepers.  You just probably get leprosy.
 
2013-07-20 09:11:16 PM

Smackledorfer: Aristocles: So, are we all pro-2nd amendment now?

Or are we just going to bend over and take it when this becomes the new norm?

You go, along with the other idiots in this thread, shoot some cops and prove your mettle.


I'm not saying folks should go out and shoot people, I'm saying that this shiat needs to be checked right away. Police need to realize that they are civilians just like us. Their job may be to enforce the laws of the people, but that doesn't mean they're above those laws.

/you know that if this woman had a dog, it'd be dead
 
2013-07-20 09:11:26 PM

SuperNinjaToad: The problem is society WANTS and NEEDS assholes like these to be cops. We need the jerk A- type personality. We all have a given set of personality traits that make us who we are. We can't just switch our being based on certain circumstances we encounter.
This asshole is a US Marshall on a serious fugitive hunt. This event is a societal and law enforcement paradox.

Ask yourself this? can someone with a demure, laidback, non aggressive, really easy going personality be effective at his job? Do you even want someone like this to hunt down really bad people? The answer is NO we actually want and expect assholes to be cops because ironically by definition to catch assholes you're most likely one yourself.


Actually, I wonder if that is not exactly what would work.

As an inexact parallel, I present the Guantanamó Bay detainee interrogation torture program.

When using trained FBI interrogators - people who know that you essentially must make nice with your target if you want usable intelligence - the success rate was and is phenomenal. On the other hand, stress positions and other 'enhanced interrogation techniques' torture will produce answers ... of a kind. Just not the kind of usable answers you actually need.

So, yes: We should be using laid-back brainiacs to hunt down the really bad people. And also to determine if we need to send the hulked-out, over-armed, fully-militarized goons to apprehend them.

Of course, someone's budget might get cut. And some hulked-out goons might have to find other work but hey: The world needs plenty of highway road crews.
 
2013-07-20 09:12:08 PM

bunner: Bravo Two: bunner: A Terrible Human: And this is why you stay as far the fark away from cops when they're running around the apartment building where you live. Turn off the lights,close the curtains and try to relax until they're done farking around.

Around here, they make the ones who question authority or aren't supporters of the government wear special badges.

I think I've seen those.

[www.ushmm.org image 208x240]

 
2013-07-20 09:14:35 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: RINO: I'm about to go through a police academy, but events like this worry me. Articles like this and Radley Balko's new book (which is a great farking read, by the way) make me fear that I might have to take part in bullshiat like this.

There will be no conflict on your part. You'll either be a man with principles and the balls to act on them or you'll be a pissy little authoritarian follower coward.
Your choice.


I hope that I would be able to stand by my principles, but I doubt I'd be able to find another job in that line of work again. It's part of the reason I don't want to hire on to some big city department. I WANT to work some podunk town; some little place where I can give a drunk a ride home from the bar instead of waiting until I see him get into his car so I can meet my DUI ticket quota. Ideally, some place small enough that I could actually walk the beat, though that's probably a pipedream.
 
2013-07-20 09:15:21 PM
FTFA:  Maybe none of them had a gun pointed at them through the kitchen window, I suggested. But Wiggins didn't think that was much excuse for the woman's behavior. He said he acted with restraint and didn't like having that gun aimed at him.

"I went above and beyond," Wiggins said. "I have to go home at night."


He went above and beyond?  It sounds like he wants a farking medal for not shooting the woman.

"We were clearly the police," Wiggins insisted. "She can't say she didn't know."
 This right here will come to bite this officer in the arse.  Unless you're in full uniform driving around in a squad car, there is no "clearly" about it.  This is why cops and civilians get shot, arrogant cops that think they have some sort of aura that law abiding people will yield compliance to.  Aiming a gun into someone's window, however, is not a clear identification that you are a police officer.
 
2013-07-20 09:17:24 PM

LordOfThePings: Igor Jakovsky: MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]

whitebread world?

Wonderplanet


Yeasty Marble?
 
2013-07-20 09:18:26 PM

fnordfocus: bhcompy: Cops aren't your friends or your enemies, they're just strangers with guns.  How do you treat strangers with guns that you meet?

I've met plenty of strangers with guns at the range.

One or two were dumb enough I though they might shoot me by accident, but I didn't think any of them would kill me deliberately.  I can't say the same about Cops I've met.


The question isn't what bias you have or what you believe, rather it is how do you treat them when you meet them?

Also, I'd suggest your example isn't really valid, since one would expect everyone at a gun range to have guns and use them more or less what the range is there for, while a stranger showing up at your door with a gun is a completely different scenario
 
2013-07-20 09:19:35 PM

AngryDragon: Smackledorfer: AngryDragon: cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.

But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....

Slippery slope is not a valid argument unless you can connect the dots.

Why this is so hard for people to grasp I have no idea, but I am sure you could find a dumbed down explanation with a quick googling if you or anyone else is having trouble.

Dot One:

[farm4.static.flickr.com image 500x335]

Dot Two:

[media.utsandiego.com image 850x574]


Pretty much. People say the slippery slope doesn't exist but that's because they their memory doesn't go back past lunch.

For this subject matter I suggest watching the Fox TV show "COPS". Start at the beginning in ~1989 and watch through the present day. Not every episode, just a representative sample. Yes it's TV. Yes it's edited. Yes it's idealized cop behavior. Yes it's done to make cops look good. But all of that is a constant and the goal is to see the change. These constants drop out of the equation. The change is documented by this show. Watch a 20+ year old episode of "COPS" it's shocking how different their behavior is. It's civil. It's confident, not paranoid. They don't scream at people as much. Someone owning guns  don't result in any over the top response. They deal with people instead of scream commands at them like they are the gunny and the other person is private Pyle.
 
2013-07-20 09:19:44 PM

Smackledorfer: And in the country I doubt there were ever any Andy griffiths, but more like a heck of a lot of Walking Talls.


You sound like you live in a big city.
 
2013-07-20 09:19:51 PM
Warrants.  Still the law.  And if you can't follow the laws that you are paid to enforce and instead break them while brandishing weapons, guess what your job description says now, sh*t for brains.
 
2013-07-20 09:20:32 PM
How come we're cool with giving more and more power to our government, or our military, or the NSA, etc., and yet we hate when cops exercise their authority?
 
2013-07-20 09:21:58 PM

Triumph: When I was a kid, I was brainwashed to love the militarization of police. So really, how can I object now?


I believe it is the routine use of SWAT teams, increased police paramilitary tactics as normal business, and lack of groovy sound tracks during home assaults than creates fear in the civilian population.
 
2013-07-20 09:22:10 PM

sendtodave: and yet we hate when cops exercise their authority

 go on hooligan binges and assault innocent people violently and menace them with weapons without warrant or cause  ?

Yeah..
 
2013-07-20 09:22:24 PM

RINO: I hope that I would be able to stand by my principles, but I doubt I'd be able to find another job in that line of work again. It's part of the reason I don't want to hire on to some big city department. I WANT to work some podunk town; some little place where I can give a drunk a ride home from the bar instead of waiting until I see him get into his car so I can meet my DUI ticket quota. Ideally, some place small enough that I could actually walk the beat, though that's probably a pipedream.


No offense... but you're going to be a horrible cop.
 
2013-07-20 09:23:57 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.


Police aren't allowed to manufacture an exigent circumstance to sidestep the warrant requirement.
 
2013-07-20 09:24:22 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: RINO: I hope that I would be able to stand by my principles, but I doubt I'd be able to find another job in that line of work again. It's part of the reason I don't want to hire on to some big city department. I WANT to work some podunk town; some little place where I can give a drunk a ride home from the bar instead of waiting until I see him get into his car so I can meet my DUI ticket quota. Ideally, some place small enough that I could actually walk the beat, though that's probably a pipedream.

No offense... but you're going to be a horrible cop.


The police are supposed to help people, not act like an occupying army.
 
2013-07-20 09:24:24 PM

bunner: sendtodave: and yet we hate when cops exercise their authority go on hooligan binges and assault innocent people violently and menace them with weapons without warrant or cause  ?

Yeah..


That's always been how cops exercise their authority.
 
2013-07-20 09:24:35 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: No offense... but you're going to be a horrible cop.


So, actual police work = horrible cop?
 
2013-07-20 09:24:42 PM
ftfa:

"I feel bad for her," Wiggins conceded, finally. "But at the same time, I had to reasonably believe the bad guy was in her house based on what they were doing."

So, you hit the deck when a laser sight is pointed at your forehead.... that's cause for a warrant-less detainment and search.
 
2013-07-20 09:25:08 PM

Harry_Seldon: Triumph: When I was a kid, I was brainwashed to love the militarization of police. So really, how can I object now?

I believe it is the routine use of SWAT teams, increased police paramilitary tactics as normal business, and lack of groovy sound tracks during home assaults than creates fear in the civilian population.


well, to be fair, I think some of them hear groovy soundtracks in their heads while they are assaulting you and killing the family pets.
 
2013-07-20 09:26:20 PM

NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.


farm6.static.flickr.com
 
2013-07-20 09:26:40 PM

stuffy: Like no on has ever impersonated a cop.
Here is crazy idea. Have the girl 911 and verify they are real cops.


Cops on the scene don't wait for verification and such behavior tends to anger them these days.

See all the stories of cops abusing people and otherwise over reacting when someone follows the guidelines issued by police departments to avoid being victimized by fake cops.

Waiting to pull over in a "well lit area" or a area that is safe from traffic seems to really piss them off these days. Better to pull over immediately where they'll have their ass sticking out into traffic and likely get hit by truck. If they want you to go somewhere else they'll say something.
 
2013-07-20 09:26:55 PM

Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.


If the evidence exists in so small an amount that it can be flushed down the toilet in the time it takes to knock on a door... uh. Yeah. Maybe it's not a big deal if they get off.
 
2013-07-20 09:27:00 PM

sendtodave: How come we're cool with giving more and more power to our government, or our military, or the NSA, etc., and yet we hate when cops exercise their authority?


Cops are civilians and their task is to enforce the laws of the people when the people themselves are not able to. That's why they have no business pointing guns through random windows and entering your property without a warrant.
 
2013-07-20 09:27:23 PM

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


Hahahahahahahaha  Herr look everyone, Cruiser Twelve changed his handle, either that or we have another troll amongst us

 
2013-07-20 09:27:30 PM

sendtodave: That's always been how cops exercise their authority.


That's not within their aurhoity.  Words man things.
 
2013-07-20 09:28:18 PM
authority, I mean.  I can't type for sh*t.
 
2013-07-20 09:28:23 PM

MrHappyRotter: Unfortunately, this is not at all the least tiny little bit surprising to me.

I am, for the most part, a law abiding goody two shoes.  I do absolutely nothing to draw attention to myself, live a quiet life, and absolutely avoid confrontation unless it's a necessity.  And out of the very few interactions I've had with police, a high proportion of them have been unpleasant to say the least.  The bad experiences have ranged from a very aggressive and belligerent cop degrading me and using profanity, cops holding me up for over 1 hour for a traffic stop for what turned out to be a misunderstanding on their part and a probably illegal search of my premises because the cops mistook hibiscus for marijuana.  In fact, the only time I was involved with a cop who was at least respectful, was when I was in violation of the law for speeding.

So, count me in with the folks who've gotten fed up.


I'm also a [white] goody two shoes with an impeccable driving record and zero arrests.  My one encounter with the police about a decade ago was a horrible experience that still angers me to this day.

That one experience bothers me so much that I've only shared it with one other human being.

\I should have sued
 
2013-07-20 09:28:39 PM

RINO: Pray 4 Mojo: RINO: I hope that I would be able to stand by my principles, but I doubt I'd be able to find another job in that line of work again. It's part of the reason I don't want to hire on to some big city department. I WANT to work some podunk town; some little place where I can give a drunk a ride home from the bar instead of waiting until I see him get into his car so I can meet my DUI ticket quota. Ideally, some place small enough that I could actually walk the beat, though that's probably a pipedream.

No offense... but you're going to be a horrible cop.

The police are supposed to help people, not act like an occupying army.


Sorry... I meant from the perspective of other cops... and your superiors... which is important.

As a civilian... I think you'd be an awesome cop.

Problem is... cops deal with assholes all day... every day. Criminals or other cops. That wears you down... and of course... thin blue line and all that.

Cheers to you for hoping you can make a difference... my experience tells me that you can't.
 
2013-07-20 09:28:44 PM

Aristocles: ftfa:

"I feel bad for her," Wiggins conceded, finally. "But at the same time, I had to reasonably believe the bad guy was in her house based on what they were doing."

So, you hit the deck when a laser sight is pointed at your forehead.... that's cause for a warrant-less detainment and search.


Whatever it takes to get "the bad guy."

Civilians are all potentially bad guys.  They will be treated as such.
 
2013-07-20 09:28:57 PM
www.gta-worldmods.de
 
2013-07-20 09:29:25 PM

bunner: Words man things.


Indeed, sir.

Indeed.
 
2013-07-20 09:31:23 PM

Aristocles: Cops are civilians


Who undergo military training to better control dangerous situations, other civilians.
 
2013-07-20 09:31:39 PM

firefly212: As one of the few people in the thread absolutely condemning the Boston PD's actions and pointing out that they had no warrant and they didn't have probable cause to believe that the suspect was in ALL of the houses they searched (warrants must be for a PARTICULAR place and person, as specified by the 4th Amendment)


Who in Boston said no and got their house searched anyway?
 
2013-07-20 09:31:44 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Really? Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me. Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice. Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative. They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy. They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them


This right here, this should be taught in schools to children.  This should be on after school specials so kids can learn and save their lives when they get older.
 
2013-07-20 09:31:45 PM

RINO: The police are supposed to help people, not act like an occupying army.


They are supposed to act like an occupying army. It's how they are trained. It's how their job is constructed. That and the company town like aspect of making sure people don't consume substances their owners don't approve of and the like. That's what they are supposed to do. They are now 'law enforcement'. The peace officer is long gone.

They are advertised as helping people, but that's not what they are supposed to do. Just the BS sales pitch.
 
2013-07-20 09:32:13 PM

Aristocles: bunner: Words man things.

Indeed, sir.

Indeed.


Yeah I can't type very well.  If I were you, I'd either dismiss any statements I make wholesale whilst trying to hold me up for schoolboy derision or just, you know, give me the F.  I'm fine with the F.
 
2013-07-20 09:32:20 PM
Where's Cruiser Twelve to defend this shiat?
 
2013-07-20 09:33:15 PM

sendtodave: Aristocles: Cops are civilians

Who undergo military training to better control dangerous situations, other civilians.


chattanoogan.com
 
2013-07-20 09:33:22 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: RINO: Pray 4 Mojo: RINO: I hope that I would be able to stand by my principles, but I doubt I'd be able to find another job in that line of work again. It's part of the reason I don't want to hire on to some big city department. I WANT to work some podunk town; some little place where I can give a drunk a ride home from the bar instead of waiting until I see him get into his car so I can meet my DUI ticket quota. Ideally, some place small enough that I could actually walk the beat, though that's probably a pipedream.

No offense... but you're going to be a horrible cop.

The police are supposed to help people, not act like an occupying army.

Sorry... I meant from the perspective of other cops... and your superiors... which is important.

As a civilian... I think you'd be an awesome cop.

Problem is... cops deal with assholes all day... every day. Criminals or other cops. That wears you down... and of course... thin blue line and all that.

Cheers to you for hoping you can make a difference... my experience tells me that you can't.


I also doubt I can affect any meaningful change, but I feel my best chance to do so is in a small department.
 
2013-07-20 09:33:34 PM

bunner: sendtodave: That's always been how cops exercise their authority.

That's not within their aurhoity.  Words man things.


I believe they'd see the limits of their authority differently than you or I would.

I believe that their bosses, and the local DA, would back them up.
 
2013-07-20 09:34:24 PM
Too bad the cop didn't wind up shot. Sure, it probably wouldn't work out well for the woman, but at least the farker would be dead.
 
2013-07-20 09:34:46 PM

Frederick: Smackledorfer: And in the country I doubt there were ever any Andy griffiths, but more like a heck of a lot of Walking Talls.

You sound like you live in a big city.


Do I sound that way? Because I don't live in a big city.
 
2013-07-20 09:34:58 PM

bunner: Aristocles: bunner: Words man things.

Indeed, sir.

Indeed.

Yeah I can't type very well.  If I were you, I'd either dismiss any statements I make wholesale whilst trying to hold me up for schoolboy derision or just, you know, give me the F.  I'm fine with the F.


I'll give you a D... I don't want you farking up my class next year too.
 
2013-07-20 09:36:09 PM

sendtodave: I believe they'd see the limits of their authority differently than you or I would.

I believe that their bosses, and the local DA, would back them up.


I believe sh*t stinks but if I step in a wad of it from you not cleaning up after it, we're gonna dance.  Cool, detached "oh but my dear boy" does not put any perfume on the poo, y'all.
 
2013-07-20 09:37:21 PM

FizixJunkee: So, count me in with the folks who've gotten fed up.

I'm also a [white] goody two shoes with an impeccable driving record and zero arrests. My one encounter with the police about a decade ago was a horrible experience that still angers me to this day.


Same here.  Except two encounters.

1) While supposedly chasing a hit & run suspect, cops knock on my door after I look out my window because I hear a car driving down my secluded street.  They ask to come inside to search for suspect -without warrant.

2) Two plainclothes detectives in unmarked car draw their weapons on me and my supervisor in our company parking lot for playing with stomp rockets.
 
2013-07-20 09:37:24 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: bunner: Aristocles: bunner: Words man things.

Indeed, sir.

Indeed.

Yeah I can't type very well.  If I were you, I'd either dismiss any statements I make wholesale whilst trying to hold me up for schoolboy derision or just, you know, give me the F.  I'm fine with the F.

I'll give you a D... I don't want you farking up my class next year too.


And I'll give you a seat in the Look how clever I am!" section.   :  )
 
2013-07-20 09:37:28 PM

sendtodave: Aristocles: Cops are civilians

Who undergo military training to better control dangerous situations, other civilians.


Funny thing is, National Guard members aren't even allowed to raise their weapons when they help out on the border, but these cops think it's fine to sneak up on a 59 y/o woman doing dishes and point guns at her head.

I wish cops were as disciplined as some of the service members I've met.
 
2013-07-20 09:37:38 PM

RINO: I also doubt I can affect any meaningful change, but I feel my best chance to do so is in a small department.


Agreed. Good luck to you... fight the good fight.
 
2013-07-20 09:38:13 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: sendtodave: Aristocles: Cops are civilians

Who undergo military training to better control dangerous situations, other civilians.

[chattanoogan.com image 800x530]


yeahhhhhhhh, whatever

carpetblog.typepad.com
 
2013-07-20 09:38:46 PM

leadmetal: RINO: The police are supposed to help people, not act like an occupying army.

They are supposed to act like an occupying army. It's how they are trained. It's how their job is constructed. That and the company town like aspect of making sure people don't consume substances their owners don't approve of and the like. That's what they are supposed to do. They are now 'law enforcement'. The peace officer is long gone.

They are advertised as helping people, but that's not what they are supposed to do. Just the BS sales pitch.


It doesn't have to be that way, though. Cities that implement "community policing"have their crime rates drop at a comparable or faster rate than those that choose increasing "militarization", with the added bonus of the general population having more trust in police officers.
 
m00
2013-07-20 09:38:50 PM
leadmetal:
Waiting to pull over in a "well lit area" or a area that is safe from traffic seems to really piss them off these days. Better to pull over immediately where they'll have their ass sticking out into traffic and likely get hit by truck. If they want you to go somewhere else they'll say something.

Thing is, if you do this cops have a right to shoot you. Well, when I did this the cop screamed at me with a gun in my face that he could shoot me at it would be justified. Think about that. After I was pulled over, he threatened to shoot me then and there because I didn't immediately pull over and instead drove about 50 feet into a parking lot. Because that was his right. In fact, he made it clear he could shoot me at any time and that was his prerogative.

Cops believe they have the right to shoot you if you don't obey some arbitrary rule they invent in their mind. Even much later when you clearly aren't a threat.

What was my crime? I had my front plates on the back and my back plates on the front (because I had just renewed my registration and had to put the plates on in the dark because I drove to school when it was still dark out).
 
2013-07-20 09:39:13 PM
FTFA: Maybe none of them had a gun pointed at them through the kitchen window, I suggested. But Wiggins didn't think that was much excuse for the woman's behavior. He said he acted with restraint and didn't like having that gun aimed at him. "I went above and beyond," Wiggins said. "I have to go home at night."

Rules for thee are not for me.  I *am* the law.
 
2013-07-20 09:39:15 PM

Mithiwithi: Who in Boston said no and got their house searched anyway?


Are you suggesting permission was asked?
 
2013-07-20 09:39:16 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I like how the cop thinks that since he didn't shoot her she shouldn't be going to the press

/Christ what an asshole


Guy should be fired and imprisoned. That kind of nut is going to kill many innocent people before his bullshiat "career" is over
 
2013-07-20 09:39:20 PM

bunner: Aristocles: bunner: Words man things.

Indeed, sir.

Indeed.

Yeah I can't type very well.  If I were you, I'd either dismiss any statements I make wholesale whilst trying to hold me up for schoolboy derision or just, you know, give me the F.  I'm fine with the F.


I'm just messing around. If I keep drinkin' and stick around in this thread, I'll get just as bad.
 
2013-07-20 09:42:00 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.


Sounds like someone had a cop dump her for a more feminine woman...doesn't surprise me, bitter is a hard pill to swallow.


And since Boston? Try since the drug war started, its been a way to militarize the local police in case of public uprising and allows the military to be in other parts of the world.
 
2013-07-20 09:42:20 PM

leadmetal: They are now 'law enforcement'.


Yeah, that really sums it up.

Not really a new thing, either.At least, not for me, but I grew up in Northern Virginia, which as always been a forerunner in police state mentality.

Where police order drunks to leave a bar, then arrest them all for being drunk in public.

Where they bust in to a billiards club and zip tie everyone to conduct a routine alcohol inspection.

Where they goaded a guy into betting enough to charge him with running a gambling operation, and then shot him dead while he was unarmed.
 
2013-07-20 09:43:46 PM

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


The cop did not cite the scream as the rationale for entry. Therefore that is not why he entered.
 
2013-07-20 09:45:32 PM

Frederick: Mithiwithi: Who in Boston said no and got their house searched anyway?

Are you suggesting permission was asked?


Not trolling... seriously don't know...

DO we KNOW that permission wasn't asked in the Boston door to door searches?
 
2013-07-20 09:46:16 PM
I have no idea what prompted you to offer me this generosity, PFM, but thank you.
 
2013-07-20 09:46:33 PM

tricycleracer: But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door.

That's some fine police work there.



Why the fark did they need a 30-person SWAT team to catch a child rapist? Do child rapists carry AK-47s and grenades?

What a bullshiat operation. They could have taken 5 cops, lightly armed, and kept their weapons holstered and knocked on the door politely and asked for cooperation.
 
2013-07-20 09:48:58 PM

bunner: I have no idea what prompted you to offer me this generosity, PFM, but thank you.


You pissed me off... so I farked up your life for 30 days. Welcome to hell. Muahahahahaha!!!

/You made me laugh... I'm a cheap date.
//Welcome
 
2013-07-20 09:49:53 PM
Thank you for the TF, Pray 4 Mojo, though I know not what I've done to deserve it.
 
2013-07-20 09:50:10 PM

leadmetal: AngryDragon: Smackledorfer: AngryDragon: cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.

But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....

Slippery slope is not a valid argument unless you can connect the dots.

Why this is so hard for people to grasp I have no idea, but I am sure you could find a dumbed down explanation with a quick googling if you or anyone else is having trouble.

Dot One:

[farm4.static.flickr.com image 500x335]

Dot Two:

[media.utsandiego.com image 850x574]

Pretty much. People say the slippery slope doesn't exist but that's because they their memory doesn't go back past lunch.

For this subject matter I suggest watching the Fox TV show "COPS". Start at the beginning in ~1989 and watch through the present day. Not every episode, just a representative sample. Yes it's TV. Yes it's edited. Yes it's idealized cop behavior. Yes it's done to make cops look good. But all of that is a constant and the goal is to see the change. These constants drop out of the equation. The change is documented by this show. Watch a 20+ year old episode of "COPS" it's shocking how different their behavior is. It's civil. It's confident, not paranoid. They don't scream at people as much. Someone owning guns  don't result in any over the top response. They deal with people instead of scream commands at them like they are the gunny and the other person is private Pyle.


Slippery Slope *is* a fallacy.  Current events are not.

Slippery slop is a fallacy, but it was one our constitution was written on.

Slippery slope is a fallacy, so decreasing police powers will not result in total anarchy.

Anyhoo, I've never had bad cop experiences, (yes, I am white) but that's not really the issue. Back in ye olde days of all police being (officially) polite and courteous the bad cops walked the bad beats.  They worked in the bad parts of town and their beatings weren't recorded because, hey, it was just a bunch of darkies.  Right?   Now though, we're ALL serfs to the corporate master class.  We're just as likely to live in a shiathole because rent's expensive everywhere as we are to live their because we're minorities.  We're all acceptable targets.
 
2013-07-20 09:51:13 PM

TuteTibiImperes: I don't see a police over-reach in this. If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger. Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon. She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


I see a big over-reach, she was screaming *BECAUSE* of the police.

Benjimin_Dover: It wasn't "no one answers when police identified themselves" it was a person inside the apartment responding to a voice through the door that claimed they were the police by asking for some identification yo be shown. Any law enforcement officer that has a problem with showing identification needs to be released to find another line of work.


Definitely.

Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.


No, how about using robots for the drug raids.  Arm them with tasers only and pass a law that if they're doing a raid for {x} and they get video of you apparently destroying {x} that it's presumed that it was {x}.
 
2013-07-20 09:51:27 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: .Problem is... cops deal with assholes all day...


And I get it.  I know my experience isn't exactly the same thing, but I worked "customer service" for 6 years.  The overwhelming majority of people I dealt with were people who were not happy with something.  Most days, most of my human interactions were unpleasant with people acting like bratty, children, who were total assholes and/or were totally disrespectful.

But a situation like that in the article, and my limited interaction with cops in general, is completely uncalled for, period.  These abusive, illegal "professionals" need to be locked up and receive real punishments for their actions and behavior, period.  And authority figures who demonstrate an inability to reasonably deal with assholes all day shouldn't be in a position of authority, let alone be given the means to take a life.
 
2013-07-20 09:52:05 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: Frederick: Mithiwithi: Who in Boston said no and got their house searched anyway?

Are you suggesting permission was asked?

Not trolling... seriously don't know...

DO we KNOW that permission wasn't asked in the Boston door to door searches?


It was a wide range, there were quite a few stories here on fark back when it happened.  Everything from no-knock bust-in to shouting, demanding and then dragging people out at gunpoint.
 
2013-07-20 09:53:40 PM
 
2013-07-20 09:54:23 PM

MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary


I didn't read comments long enough to find out if anyone said it but is it world shiat sandwich?
 
2013-07-20 09:54:47 PM

RINO: It doesn't have to be that way, though. Cities that implement "community policing"have their crime rates drop at a comparable or faster rate than those that choose increasing "militarization", with the added bonus of the general population having more trust in police officers.


For it not to be this way people have to give up a lot things they apparently want.  Or at least are told they want so they want it.

It does have to be this way for americans to have the country they apparently want and vote for. (as if there's a real choice in voting since in most cases the difference isn't worth mentioning)  Americans by and large want to tell their neighbors how to live. They support the interventionist foreign policy. They submissively crawl to government in fear of boogiemen. They want collectivist programs. They want the government to keep their children from doing the wrong things (drugs, sex,  whatever). They want to safe from 'risk'. So on and so forth. To have all this requires government violence or the threat there of. It requires an occupying force. Government has one tool to accomplish everything, to use it's monopoly on legal violence.
 
2013-07-20 09:54:59 PM

MrHappyRotter: Pray 4 Mojo: .Problem is... cops deal with assholes all day...

And I get it.  I know my experience isn't exactly the same thing, but I worked "customer service" for 6 years.  The overwhelming majority of people I dealt with were people who were not happy with something.  Most days, most of my human interactions were unpleasant with people acting like bratty, children, who were total assholes and/or were totally disrespectful.

But a situation like that in the article, and my limited interaction with cops in general, is completely uncalled for, period.  These abusive, illegal "professionals" need to be locked up and receive real punishments for their actions and behavior, period.  And authority figures who demonstrate an inability to reasonably deal with assholes all day shouldn't be in a position of authority, let alone be given the means to take a life.


The authority figures are not unable, they are uninterested.  IF they want to take on the cops, it is only because they want to take on the police union because they hate unions.  Otherwise they're fine with the militarized police because police don't DO this kind of thing to big campaign donors.  Gated communities and the little islands of rich people in towns are still safe from this sort of thing.
 
2013-07-20 09:57:20 PM

sendtodave: Civilians are all potentially bad guys.  They will be treated as such.


Cop.
 
2013-07-20 09:58:59 PM

leadmetal: It does have to be this way for americans to have the country they apparently want and vote for. (as if there's a real choice in voting since in most cases the difference isn't worth mentioning) Americans by and large want to tell their neighbors how to live. They support the interventionist foreign policy. They submissively crawl to government in fear of boogiemen. They want collectivist programs. They want the government to keep their children from doing the wrong things (drugs, sex, whatever). They want to safe from 'risk'. So on and so forth. To have all this requires government violence or the threat there of. It requires an occupying force. Government has one tool to accomplish everything, to use it's monopoly on legal violence.


Social contract arguments typically posit that individuals have consented, either explicitly or tacitly, to surrender some of their freedoms and submit to the authority of the ruler or magistrate (or to the decision of a majority), in exchange for protection of their remaining rights.
 
2013-07-20 10:00:06 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: sendtodave: Civilians are all potentially bad guys.  They will be treated as such.

Cop.


Pick up that can.
 
2013-07-20 10:01:30 PM

RINO: Thank you for the TF, Pray 4 Mojo, though I know not what I've done to deserve it.


Just trying to help a guy change the world...

/With 5 dollars.
 
2013-07-20 10:01:47 PM

sendtodave: "Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book": The new warrior cop is out of control


If you haven't already, I highly recommend buying that book. Tjat article and another one were greenlit here and piques my interest enough to purchase it, and it's probably the best nonfiction book I've read in years.
 
2013-07-20 10:02:15 PM
This just in, PFM has won the lottery.  :  )
 
2013-07-20 10:03:17 PM

RINO: sendtodave: "Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book": The new warrior cop is out of control

If you haven't already, I highly recommend buying that book. Tjat article and another one were greenlit here and piques my interest enough to purchase it, and it's probably the best nonfiction book I've read in years.


In other news, apparently I fail at cell phone typing.
 
2013-07-20 10:04:16 PM

TuteTibiImperes: 1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes


You clearly don't understand the onus on the very first sentence.  If that happened to someone you loved OR YOU, you would be VERY pissed off.  NO one should have a loaded weapon pointed at their face who is not guilty or even suspected of being guilty of anything.   It's scary as hell.
 
2013-07-20 10:05:05 PM

RINO: RINO: sendtodave: "Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book": The new warrior cop is out of control

If you haven't already, I highly recommend buying that book. Tjat article and another one were greenlit here and piques my interest enough to purchase it, and it's probably the best nonfiction book I've read in years.

In other news, apparently I fail at cell phone typing.


I got the gist.
 
2013-07-20 10:05:06 PM
Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."


Jesus...
 
2013-07-20 10:05:32 PM
If I were her, I would have fired. No questions asked. If I end up dying, then at least it's in the cause of liberty.
 
2013-07-20 10:06:35 PM

leadmetal: They submissively crawl to government in fear of boogiemen. They want collectivist programs. They want the government to keep their children from doing the wrong things (drugs, sex,  whatever). They want to safe from 'risk'. So on and so forth. To have all this requires government violence or the threat there of. It requires an occupying force. Government has one tool to accomplish everything, to use it's monopoly on legal violence.


Shhh dude you are blowing our cover
Never tell the cannon fodder where the cannons are.
 
2013-07-20 10:07:08 PM

Penman: If I were her, I would have fired. No questions asked. If I end up dying, then at least it's in the cause of liberty.


Then this would have been a non-story, she'd have been a criminal that got what she deserved, and the cops would just be that much more likely to shoot first next time.
 
m00
2013-07-20 10:07:12 PM

sendtodave: "Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book": The new warrior cop is out of control


from the article: The most volatile night of the convention featured one incident in which Jefferson County, Colorado, deputies unknowingly clashed with and then pepper-sprayed undercover Denver cops posing as violent protesters.


Wait, what?
 
2013-07-20 10:08:04 PM

Deathfrogg: Police are actively sorted for narcissistic and sociopathic personalities.


Gonna need a citation for that one. I do know they sort out the ones that are too smart but I'm afraid I can find nothing to support your claim - I tried to look for you but there's no credible evidence of this claim that I can find so a citation is needed.
 
2013-07-20 10:09:41 PM

phenn: TuteTibiImperes: She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

THEY are lucky THEY didn't get shot. Her home, bro. Her farking home.


Taking on the cops with a .38 while in a panic will not end well.
 
2013-07-20 10:09:48 PM

m00: sendtodave: "Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book": The new warrior cop is out of control

from the article: The most volatile night of the convention featured one incident in which Jefferson County, Colorado, deputies unknowingly clashed with and then pepper-sprayed undercover Denver cops posing as violent protesters.


Wait, what?


An agent provocateur is a person employed to act undercover to entice or provoke another person to commit an illegal or rash act.
 
2013-07-20 10:10:31 PM

ManateeGag: Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.

what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


I had my face gently placed on the asphalt by a state trooper one time, but it just so happened that the next day I tripped and fell on my face and from me landing on my said face just so that Ithaca me road rash and had left scabs , total accident just me being a klutz

/ need a beer
// jus sayin
 
2013-07-20 10:11:28 PM
Anybody who thinks that Americans today are somehow different from Soviets or Germans of the 1930s is delusional. Cops do what they are told. They aren't paid (nor do most of them have the ability) to think. Like the people who shoved Jews into gas chambers or committed gross human rights abuses in the gulags, they put the moral responsibility on those who give the orders, and have clear consciences because they are the "good guys" and they have the guts to do the dirty work to make the world a better place. If you think that they care about "serving and protecting" the public, you would be wrong. They care about only one thing: pleasing their bosses and getting that next promotion.
 
2013-07-20 10:11:41 PM

sendtodave: Penman: If I were her, I would have fired. No questions asked. If I end up dying, then at least it's in the cause of liberty.

Then this would have been a non-story, she'd have been a criminal that got what she deserved, and the cops would just be that much more likely to shoot first next time.


cops have a policy of shoot first, shoot last, shoot some more, then when everyone is dead, maybe start asking some questions.
 
2013-07-20 10:11:41 PM

RINO: I'm about to go through a police academy, but events like this worry me. Articles like this and Radley Balko's new book (which is a great farking read, by the way) make me fear that I might have to take part in bullshiat like this.


Probably you will. And probably you'll like it and even enthusiastically participate; unless you're one of the ones who can't handle it and quit either during academy or in your rookie year.

Being a cop changes your entire outlook; cops are made, not born, most of the time, it's something to do with the uniform and the microculture they live in. Anyone who doesn't believe this needs to read "The Lucifer Effect", ZImbardo's book about how merely putting on a uniform and a pair of sunglasses turned a few college boys into stereotypical cop-thugs in less than 48 hours.
 
2013-07-20 10:11:51 PM

sendtodave: Penman: If I were her, I would have fired. No questions asked. If I end up dying, then at least it's in the cause of liberty.

Then this would have been a non-story, she'd have been a criminal that got what she deserved, and the cops would just be that much more likely to shoot first next time.


This is why every person with a family should own a gun, capable of piercing body armor.
 
m00
2013-07-20 10:13:09 PM

sendtodave: An agent provocateur is a person employed to act undercover to entice or provoke another person to commit an illegal or rash act.


Yeah, but this isn't "rogue cop" evil. This is like... what the Egyptian government does.

There's a peaceful protest. You send in some undercover cops who throw rocks, damage property. Military comes in and kills/detains all the protestors because "they got violent."
 
m00
2013-07-20 10:13:45 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: cops have a policy of shoot first, shoot last, shoot some more, then when everyone is dead, maybe start asking some questions.

get a medal for their bravery
 
2013-07-20 10:15:13 PM

m00: sendtodave: "Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book": The new warrior cop is out of control

from the article: The most volatile night of the convention featured one incident in which Jefferson County, Colorado, deputies unknowingly clashed with and then pepper-sprayed undercover Denver cops posing as violent protesters.


Wait, what?


Sweet! I'm ok with this...when you instigate violence to allow your pals to instigate violence against those that are supposedly going to instigate violence...wait, what? This is bullshiat.
 
2013-07-20 10:15:18 PM

m00: HindiDiscoMonster: cops have a policy of shoot first, shoot last, shoot some more, then when everyone is dead, maybe start asking some questions. get a medal for their bravery


I think you missed the movie reference... :)
 
2013-07-20 10:15:48 PM
you have to admit, if this were still 2006 people would be losing their shiat way more than they are
 
m00
2013-07-20 10:16:13 PM

Penman: This is why every person with a family should own a gun, capable of piercing body armor.


it's what should happen. but what's actually going to happen is that the government will require that all citizens purchase a pair of handcuffs, and if the police bust down your door on a non-knock warrant you better handcuff yourself before the door caves in. Or you could legally get shot for being a threat.
 
2013-07-20 10:16:45 PM
DrPainMD: Anybody who thinks that Americans today are somehow different from Soviets or Germans of the 1930s is delusional.

i5.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-20 10:19:13 PM

m00: leadmetal:
Waiting to pull over in a "well lit area" or a area that is safe from traffic seems to really piss them off these days. Better to pull over immediately where they'll have their ass sticking out into traffic and likely get hit by truck. If they want you to go somewhere else they'll say something.

Thing is, if you do this cops have a right to shoot you. Well, when I did this the cop screamed at me with a gun in my face that he could shoot me at it would be justified. Think about that. After I was pulled over, he threatened to shoot me then and there because I didn't immediately pull over and instead drove about 50 feet into a parking lot. Because that was his right. In fact, he made it clear he could shoot me at any time and that was his prerogative.

Cops believe they have the right to shoot you if you don't obey some arbitrary rule they invent in their mind. Even much later when you clearly aren't a threat.

What was my crime? I had my front plates on the back and my back plates on the front (because I had just renewed my registration and had to put the plates on in the dark because I drove to school when it was still dark out).


Please tell me you filed a complaint with internal affairs (yeah I know, probably a waste if time, but at least it would be on the moran's record should he eventually make good on the threat) or better yet contacted the local press.

Every single tine one of these Jackholes oversees their authority we need to make the press aware of it. Get it in print and maybe one day the public will have enough of this shiat.
 
2013-07-20 10:19:34 PM

davidphogan: I've been detained by police over the years several times, it's never shown up on any background check I've been through related to employment.


I've been told by an Officer that it's recorded every time he looks up my info is recorded, and that "too many" inquiries would be a red flag to employers.  If that's true, I'd imagine being detained or arrested would be a very big red flag, or was he misleading me?
 
2013-07-20 10:20:01 PM

m00: sendtodave: An agent provocateur is a person employed to act undercover to entice or provoke another person to commit an illegal or rash act.

Yeah, but this isn't "rogue cop" evil. This is like... what the Egyptian government does.

There's a peaceful protest. You send in some undercover cops who throw rocks, damage property. Military comes in and kills/detains all the protestors because "they got violent."


Yeah, that's about right.

Why do you think that would happen in Egypt, but not at a protest in the US?
 
2013-07-20 10:21:37 PM

phenn: BafflerMeal: Over the course of my life it seems to me that the general thuggery of good ol boy cops in the south has become the sop model for police actions in the us writ large.

Cops have been militarized - no secrets there. And, I doubt there's much the citizenry can do about it at this stage in the game. Outside of leaving the US, that is.


This is what happens when you vote for Democrats or Republicans.
 
2013-07-20 10:21:54 PM

sendtodave: Penman: If I were her, I would have fired. No questions asked. If I end up dying, then at least it's in the cause of liberty.

Then this would have been a non-story...


Is anyone else concerned that this is already a non-story? Two reasons it's worrying me that, since Thursday, this has not been picked up by any other legit press:

1. The "real" news outlets actually did their investigation and found out that this lady's story is bullshirt.
2. Conspiracy theory.

Seriously... the only thing I can find on the web is low level blog sites and message boards re-hashing the HT story.

Something smells.
 
2013-07-20 10:22:26 PM
Holographic Shimmering Pork: Dear Fark - the above post is analmost perfect example of how to deceive and manipulate others while attempting to appear objective, honest and authoritative. Farkers who've experienced any sort of psychologically abusive relationship will immediately recognize the tone and techniques used in said post -  artificial empathy, repeated affirmations of authority, qualitative verbiage, inappropriate usage of the passive form, etc.  There's nothing about this post that doesn't stink of an agenda wrapped in dishonesty.

Tutes is either in law enforcement or is heavily invested in someone who is. Which is it?


You sound like someone who is educated and knows rhetorical strategies.  Do you wear glasses also?

//totally not Pol Pot.
 
2013-07-20 10:24:25 PM

Gyrfalcon: RINO: I'm about to go through a police academy, but events like this worry me. Articles like this and Radley Balko's new book (which is a great farking read, by the way) make me fear that I might have to take part in bullshiat like this.

Probably you will. And probably you'll like it and even enthusiastically participate; unless you're one of the ones who can't handle it and quit either during academy or in your rookie year.

Being a cop changes your entire outlook; cops are made, not born, most of the time, it's something to do with the uniform and the microculture they live in. Anyone who doesn't believe this needs to read "The Lucifer Effect", ZImbardo's book about how merely putting on a uniform and a pair of sunglasses turned a few college boys into stereotypical cop-thugs in less than 48 hours.


Joining the military didn't significantly change my outlook, so I don't see why becoming a police officer would. I even deal with a lot of the same crap they do (obviously to a lesser degree) in my current job as armed security. I figure if I can do both of those things without acting like an authoritarian meathead, I can act like a decent human being as a LEO.
 
2013-07-20 10:25:32 PM

fnordfocus: davidphogan: I've been detained by police over the years several times, it's never shown up on any background check I've been through related to employment.

I've been told by an Officer that it's recorded every time he looks up my info is recorded, and that "too many" inquiries would be a red flag to employers.  If that's true, I'd imagine being detained or arrested would be a very big red flag, or was he misleading me?


Yes.

The middle part doesn't matter. The worst person to ask about legalities or how the world works is a cop.
 
2013-07-20 10:26:04 PM

OBBN: Every single tine one of these Jackholes oversees their authority we need to make the press aware of it. Get it in print and maybe one day the public will have enough of this shiat.


How many cops threads have you read on Fark?  They're all in print.

Are we all fed up yet?
 
2013-07-20 10:27:13 PM

Ennuipoet: Weaver95: I have friends of mine who believe themselves to be fierce conservatives and believe that government should be extremely limited....and yet they blindly support the war on drugs and the war on terror, believing that the bill of rights is an impediment and that we can trust law enforcement not to abuse it's authority over us.  I personally don't understand their mindset but there you go.

This is my entire extended family, and they wonder why I don't visit.  When I tell them, as an ex-cop, that the balance of power is out of control they say it is because I am just a liberal Northerner.

God this country is full of idiots, and I am related to most of them apparently.


Same reason I don't visit my family either. My brother is a cop and to the rest of my family, the sun rises and sets on his ass. Me, I'm just a liberal atheist living on the gubmint dole and I could never hold a candle to him.

And watching him on many occasions using the "cop voice" on his kids just left me shaking my head.
 
2013-07-20 10:27:29 PM
If I ever find myself in this woman's situation, I will pray for two things: first, that I be given courage enough to die free rather than live in subservience; second, that I be given really good aim.
 
2013-07-20 10:29:25 PM

DarthBart: And watching him on many occasions using the "cop voice" on his kids...


Shudder.

Also... take a bath and get a farking job hippie.
 
2013-07-20 10:29:27 PM

fnordfocus: davidphogan: I've been detained by police over the years several times, it's never shown up on any background check I've been through related to employment.

I've been told by an Officer that it's recorded every time he looks up my info is recorded, and that "too many" inquiries would be a red flag to employers.  If that's true, I'd imagine being detained or arrested would be a very big red flag, or was he misleading me?


Your info is almost certainly in the department's FI system, but he was pulling your leg in regards to employers finding out. FI entries are not public record and thus not visible to a background check.

/pretty sure I'm right about this.
 
2013-07-20 10:31:53 PM

sendtodave: leadmetal: It does have to be this way for americans to have the country they apparently want and vote for. (as if there's a real choice in voting since in most cases the difference isn't worth mentioning) Americans by and large want to tell their neighbors how to live. They support the interventionist foreign policy. They submissively crawl to government in fear of boogiemen. They want collectivist programs. They want the government to keep their children from doing the wrong things (drugs, sex, whatever). They want to safe from 'risk'. So on and so forth. To have all this requires government violence or the threat there of. It requires an occupying force. Government has one tool to accomplish everything, to use it's monopoly on legal violence.

Social contract arguments typically posit that individuals have consented, either explicitly or tacitly, to surrender some of their freedoms and submit to the authority of the ruler or magistrate (or to the decision of a majority), in exchange for protection of their remaining rights.


The so-called social contract is fiction. Valid contracts are usually written and always entered into voluntarily. This  so called social contract is invoked by those people who think they should tell their neighbors how to live, take their stuff, force collectivist policies and so forth and so on. Behind it all is the monopoly on legal violence. It's not even a written contract and entry into it is not voluntary. Ultimately the idea of a social contract is simply a warmer fuzzier way of referring to the monopoly on legal violence claimed by the state.
 
2013-07-20 10:32:26 PM
The police are starting to use unmarked SUV's on the freeway to pull people over. I am telling you right now I am not going to stop for one because they don't even have the light strips inside as to not give them away while undercover. They use a beeping light flashing thing??? I will be calling 911 first requesting clarity from them and or a marked car. I'm sure I'll be promptly given a talking on a cell while driving ticket along with my speeding ticket!
 
2013-07-20 10:33:43 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: sendtodave: Penman: If I were her, I would have fired. No questions asked. If I end up dying, then at least it's in the cause of liberty.

Then this would have been a non-story...

Is anyone else concerned that this is already a non-story? Two reasons it's worrying me that, since Thursday, this has not been picked up by any other legit press:

1. The "real" news outlets actually did their investigation and found out that this lady's story is bullshirt.
2. Conspiracy theory.

Seriously... the only thing I can find on the web is low level blog sites and message boards re-hashing the HT story.

Something smells.


Here's the reason it's a non-story: The woman whose home was illegally raided by the cops had to go to the local press herself! I guess "real" news outlets decided that this is not important enough for their readers.
 
2013-07-20 10:35:28 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: fnordfocus: davidphogan: I've been detained by police over the years several times, it's never shown up on any background check I've been through related to employment.

I've been told by an Officer that it's recorded every time he looks up my info is recorded, and that "too many" inquiries would be a red flag to employers.  If that's true, I'd imagine being detained or arrested would be a very big red flag, or was he misleading me?

Yes.

The middle part doesn't matter. The worst person to ask about legalities or how the world works is a cop.


This is unfortunately true. There is no requirement for the police to know the ins and outs of the law. Worse, the legal system actually incentivises this ignorance. If a cop violates a law or laws, as long as they were "acting in good faith" they are shielded from any consequences. Personally I would consider actually knowing the law(s) to be a requirement of good faith, but what do I know.
 
2013-07-20 10:37:54 PM

m00: sendtodave: "Why did you shoot me? I was reading a book": The new warrior cop is out of control

from the article: The most volatile night of the convention featured one incident in which Jefferson County, Colorado, deputies unknowingly clashed with and then pepper-sprayed undercover Denver cops posing as violent protesters.

Wait, what?


Happens all the time. Those in government need a reason to crack down on groups that oppose whatever they are doing. They also need to destroy the image of these groups to the public at large. The best way to do this is to infiltrate and promote/commit a violent act or to simply pose as them at a protest and start smashing things and attacking people. Fixes everything. It's been done in the USA since at least the 1960s.

Remember kids, the member of your group who wants to act violently is a cop or a fed. Kick him out or ignore him.
 
2013-07-20 10:38:21 PM

KimNorth: The police are starting to use unmarked SUV's on the freeway to pull people over. I am telling you right now I am not going to stop for one because they don't even have the light strips inside as to not give them away while undercover. They use a beeping light flashing thing??? I will be calling 911 first requesting clarity from them and or a marked car. I'm sure I'll be promptly given a talking on a cell while driving ticket along with my speeding ticket!


I would check your local laws. I know at least in my state unmarked vehicles cannot make traffic stops. If this is the case, you can rasily get out of the ticket in court, and I'm not even sure you have a duty to stop.
 
2013-07-20 10:39:21 PM
So can we all finally forget about the whole "gun ownership protecting people from oppressive government" bullshiate now?
 
2013-07-20 10:43:33 PM

Aristocles: Pray 4 Mojo: sendtodave: Penman: If I were her, I would have fired. No questions asked. If I end up dying, then at least it's in the cause of liberty.

Then this would have been a non-story...

Is anyone else concerned that this is already a non-story? Two reasons it's worrying me that, since Thursday, this has not been picked up by any other legit press:

1. The "real" news outlets actually did their investigation and found out that this lady's story is bullshirt.
2. Conspiracy theory.

Seriously... the only thing I can find on the web is low level blog sites and message boards re-hashing the HT story.

Something smells.

Here's the reason it's a non-story: The woman whose home was illegally raided by the cops had to go to the local press herself! I guess "real" news outlets decided that this is not important enough for their readers.


So... number 2 then?
 
2013-07-20 10:43:52 PM
59!? That's not a recent picture of her, I'll tell you that much.

Surprised that the police used swear words?  What planet is she from?

/acab
 
2013-07-20 10:45:03 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: fnordfocus: Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.

Well, it is easier to get a gun that get a job, so there's that.


This just in.... alert alert alert....

It is easier to give someone else money than to convince someone to give you money.
 
2013-07-20 10:48:48 PM
It's amazing how quickly some folks defend fascism - at least, until they're the ones staring down the barrel of a gun.
 
m00
2013-07-20 10:49:37 PM

OBBN: Please tell me you filed a complaint with internal affairs (yeah I know, probably a waste if time, but at least it would be on the moran's record should he eventually make good on the threat) or better yet contacted the local press.

Every single tine one of these Jackholes oversees their authority we need to make the press aware of it. Get it in print and maybe one day the public will have enough of this shiat.


Yeah, I'm not going to purposely put myself or my family at risk for retaliation. This is when I lived in PG County, Maryland (where I went to college)... which at the time was the 3rd worst county in the United States for police brutality. The police were extremely brutal. I mean, a friend of mine ran a stop sign and he was a guitar player and the police broke his hands after they saw the guitar in his backseat and were like "oh... you play guitar do you?". Once I was at a Denny's with some friends in the middle of the night, and the fact I ordered bacon personally offended a cop who was also at the restaurant (he thought I ordered bacon to taunt him, when I really I just love bacon). I consider myself lucky I merely got verbally berated.

I suppose it's cowardly not to become some sort of anti-police activist, but doing so there would basically be a death sentence. Cops really do plant drugs, and shoot people and lie about it, and beat people up for the lulz. In the departments that tolerate this it's systemic.

I've lived in places in the south and in the pacific northwest where the cops I encountered were really decent people. But the places where it's bad, it's really bad and they could kill you for looking at them wrong. If you get on their radar for going to the press or filing a complaint, you are almost guaranteed to be tortured and then murdered. Unless you are some combination wealthy, famous, or politically connected... which I'm not.

People who have also lived in "certain areas" with brutal police forces know exactly what I'm talking about. While I agree with the outcome of the Zimmerman trial, I absolutely understand why so many black people have an issue with the situation. There are places where the cops really are out to get you, and if they feel like murdering you they'll murder you. It's unfortunate that black people disproportionately live in these places, because it means a large portion of the US can't relate to that.
 
2013-07-20 10:52:21 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: Aristocles: Pray 4 Mojo: sendtodave: Penman: If I were her, I would have fired. No questions asked. If I end up dying, then at least it's in the cause of liberty.

Then this would have been a non-story...

Is anyone else concerned that this is already a non-story? Two reasons it's worrying me that, since Thursday, this has not been picked up by any other legit press:

1. The "real" news outlets actually did their investigation and found out that this lady's story is bullshirt.
2. Conspiracy theory.

Seriously... the only thing I can find on the web is low level blog sites and message boards re-hashing the HT story.

Something smells.

Here's the reason it's a non-story: The woman whose home was illegally raided by the cops had to go to the local press herself! I guess "real" news outlets decided that this is not important enough for their readers.

So... number 2 then?


Not necessarily. Remember, these are the same cops (or at least cops in the same dept) that caught a child rape suspect. That's the type of feel-good story that most of the news outlets ran with. So, when Ms. Goldsberry came to them with her tale of cop douchebaggery, it didn't fit the narrative. I don't know if that's conspiracy or not.

However, regarding no. 1, if the story is bullshirt, then the cop who is quoted would probably take some action against Mr. Lyons for printing the shirt.
 
2013-07-20 10:53:35 PM
Get out on the lawn face down ... habitants !      Shut up !

/habs
 
2013-07-20 10:53:43 PM

Penman: sendtodave: Penman: If I were her, I would have fired. No questions asked. If I end up dying, then at least it's in the cause of liberty.

Then this would have been a non-story, she'd have been a criminal that got what she deserved, and the cops would just be that much more likely to shoot first next time.

This is why every person with a family should own a gun, capable of piercing body armor.


...which would then justify that cop's reaction, hands down. That's what we're getting now - "I just wanna go home to my kids tonight" - when a cop in full tactical gear, holding a shield, faces some scared woman with a .38. Imagine how easy it'll be to have that same cop justify that same reaction, or worse - the cop thinks he was being generous ("going above and beyond") by not shooting her in her own home now - when she pulls out something that can go through body armor.

Later, when he talks about shooting an armed resident who ignored orders from police and grabbed an "assault weapon", no one will blink an eye because, hey, he gave her an order and she didn't comply.

That's the problem with escalation. If it happens, you lose. You want to do something useful? Push for de-militarizing the cops, not militarizing the civilians.
 
2013-07-20 10:57:31 PM

fnordfocus: Smackledorfer: That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.

Lying once again?

I'm guessing you've never had to taint yourself by filling out a job application?

Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.


There is a lot of ignorance about background checks. I've done lots of them - some quite extensive for work on government contracts. You're an idiot if you think this will show up on a background check. That is all.
 
2013-07-20 10:57:46 PM

FormlessOne: You want to do something useful? Push for de-militarizing the cops, not militarizing the civilians.


Actually... I would like to see both.
 
2013-07-20 11:00:02 PM

m00: The police were extremely brutal. I mean, a friend of mine ran a stop sign and he was a guitar player and the police broke his hands after they saw the guitar in his backseat and were like "oh... you play guitar do you?".


Christ.

What is it with DC suburb cops?
 
2013-07-20 11:01:38 PM

Smackledorfer: fnordfocus: Smackledorfer: That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.

Lying once again?

I'm guessing you've never had to taint yourself by filling out a job application?

Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.

Like I said, you are making shiat up. It is hillarious that you feel you have to. It would be easy enough to fill threads with accurate criticism of law enforcement.

Terry stops and contacts with officers are not arrests, and do not show up on criminal history checks. No one gets booked, given fbi numbers, or entered into databases for any background checkers to access or read.


Ah, good. I was working down the thread and didn't know someone had attended to this. What sort of idiot thinks all contacts with cops are entered into some database that shows up in background checks? Even if you're cuffed... Detained is not arrested. Detained means you're not in a database. It's some strange myth that idiots seem to believe for some reason, I have no idea why.
 
2013-07-20 11:02:55 PM
Americans are really hung up on this idea that the have complete Freedom.

There are different kinds of freedom:

Political Freedom
Freedom to complain about the governing bodies at any level without fear of reprisal. Freedom to challenge government through accepted channels. Freedom to seek governing roles.

Do we have it? Yes!

Economic Freedom
Freedom to accumulate and utilize resources through any legal means and for any legal purpose.

Do we have it? Yes!

Social Freedom
Freedom to live any lifestyle that does not negatively affect others.

Do we have it? Well...according to the Constitution we do, but since "others" are insufferably sensitive about what affects them, we are in a non-stop shouting match about who should be allowed to do what.

Legislative Freedom
Freedom from burdensome laws and regulations. Freedom from fear of legal action from fellow citizens.

Do we have it?Not really. Because we're all free to pursue Economic Freedom, we've created thick books of laws designed to "even the playing field," making it difficult for others to take "unfair advantage." This pertains not just to commerce laws but labor, vehicular and any other aspect of life. In addition, the ease with which private law suits can be brought has made us fear situations where precedents for law suits exist.

In my experience, traveling around the world, it seems like you can have one or two types of freedom, but at the expense of losing the others.
 
2013-07-20 11:02:57 PM

FormlessOne: That's the problem with escalation. If it happens, you lose. You want to do something useful? Push for de-militarizing the cops, not militarizing the civilians.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-20 11:03:43 PM

UnspokenVoice: fnordfocus: Smackledorfer: That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.

Lying once again?

I'm guessing you've never had to taint yourself by filling out a job application?

Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.

There is a lot of ignorance about background checks. I've done lots of them - some quite extensive for work on government contracts. You're an idiot if you think this will show up on a background check. That is all.


I figured it doesn't, because I had to personally get a "no prior arrest" statement from the police station in order to rent an apartment once (I had really shiatty credit).

I figured that if they could view prior arrest records, they wouldn't need me to go get that myself.

Convictions?  I'm not sure about.
 
2013-07-20 11:04:37 PM

FormlessOne: It's amazing how quickly some folks defend fascism - at least, until they're the ones staring down the barrel of a gun.


Some people want to be ruled. Freedom is a scary unpredictable thing.

So obviously, people insisting on freedom are just trying to scare people.

So therefore freedom == terrorism.
 
2013-07-20 11:05:15 PM
I'm shocked that fark has a problem with this considering most of fark is lib idiots.
 
2013-07-20 11:06:21 PM

sendtodave: in order to rent an apartment


Oh, an the underlying message there, of course, is that they wouldn't have rented me an apartment if I had even had an arrest record, let alone a criminal record.

Man, I feel bad for all those poor schmucks whose life is ruined because they were carrying a little bit of weed.
 
2013-07-20 11:09:57 PM

MurphyMurphy: FormlessOne: It's amazing how quickly some folks defend fascism - at least, until they're the ones staring down the barrel of a gun.

Some people want to be ruled. Freedom is a scary unpredictable thing.

So obviously, people insisting on freedom are just trying to scare people.

So therefore freedom == terrorism.


Our founding fathers were instigators, insurrectionists, some would even say that they were terrorists.  Their rebellion ruined the lives of many honest, hard working, god and king fearing people.

If you were a businessman in the 1760s, doing steady trade with Britain, would you support those that flout the law, even though the law is burdensome?

Most people wouldn't, I don't think.

I got mine, fark your revolution.
 
2013-07-20 11:10:37 PM

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.


You must have skipped the part where the screaming lady repeatedly asked for proof he was an officer and all he responded with were expletives.

The guy is a douchebag.
Probably needs to be at the gym in 26 minutes.
No slashies for the troll
 
m00
2013-07-20 11:10:45 PM

sendtodave: Christ.

What is it with DC suburb cops?


Personally I think they get bullied and emasculated by the politicians and diplomats. Who basically treat cops like servants and errand-boys. And like any bullied kid, they turn right around and bully someone even weaker. Which is all of us working nobodies.
 
2013-07-20 11:12:49 PM
Fark, the place where everyone hates cops but loves jackbooted authority
 
2013-07-20 11:13:33 PM
Bunch of wannabe "wannabe cops".
 
2013-07-20 11:14:57 PM

kortex: I'm shocked that fark has a problem with this considering most of fark is lib idiots.


Lolwut?
 
2013-07-20 11:16:48 PM

KimNorth: The police are starting to use unmarked SUV's on the freeway to pull people over. I am telling you right now I am not going to stop for one because they don't even have the light strips inside as to not give them away while undercover. They use a beeping light flashing thing??? I will be calling 911 first requesting clarity from them and or a marked car. I'm sure I'll be promptly given a talking on a cell while driving ticket along with my speeding ticket!


Do that. You're allowed. In fact, any decent cop or trooper would understand if you are a female that you are wary of pulling over for ANYONE on the freeway. But do this:

1. Turn on your hazard lights. This indicates you've seen the officer and intend to comply with the pull-over signal.
2. Slow down and use your turn signal. Same as above.
3. Exit at the nearest off-ramp.
4. Pull over at the nearest well-lit public location, such as a gas station or supermarket parking lot.
5. Roll down your window, turn on the interior light, and keep your hands on the steering wheel.
6. When the cop yells at you What the F*CK were you doing?!!?!?? explain in a calm, rational voice that you were nervous about pulling off the freeway for an unmarked unit because [insert reasonable excuse here] and you indicated your willingness to comply by your actions.
7. Then obey every command subsequently given as to producing ID, registration, insurance, signing the ticket, etc. Do not get into a debate about the legality of your ticket, and don't argue with the cop over the constitutionality of the unmarked car. Save that for court.
 
2013-07-20 11:17:59 PM

RINO: I'm about to go through a police academy, but events like this worry me. Articles like this and Radley Balko's new book (which is a great farking read, by the way) make me fear that I might have to take part in bullshiat like this.


No. You don't have to.
 
m00
2013-07-20 11:18:44 PM

Gyrfalcon: any decent cop or trooper

...

That's kinda the problem, ain't it?
 
2013-07-20 11:20:24 PM

Gyrfalcon: KimNorth: The police are starting to use unmarked SUV's on the freeway to pull people over. I am telling you right now I am not going to stop for one because they don't even have the light strips inside as to not give them away while undercover. They use a beeping light flashing thing??? I will be calling 911 first requesting clarity from them and or a marked car. I'm sure I'll be promptly given a talking on a cell while driving ticket along with my speeding ticket!

Do that. You're allowed. In fact, any decent cop or trooper would understand if you are a female that you are wary of pulling over for ANYONE on the freeway. But do this:

1. Turn on your hazard lights. This indicates you've seen the officer and intend to comply with the pull-over signal.
2. Slow down and use your turn signal. Same as above.
3. Exit at the nearest off-ramp.
4. Pull over at the nearest well-lit public location, such as a gas station or supermarket parking lot.
5. Roll down your window, turn on the interior light, and keep your hands on the steering wheel.
6. When the cop yells at you What the F*CK were you doing?!!?!?? explain in a calm, rational voice that you were nervous about pulling off the freeway for an unmarked unit because [insert reasonable excuse here] and you indicated your willingness to comply by your actions.
7. Then obey every command subsequently given as to producing ID, registration, insurance, signing the ticket, etc. Do not get into a debate about the legality of your ticket, and don't argue with the cop over the constitutionality of the unmarked car. Save that for court.


8. Cry to get out of the ticket.
 
2013-07-20 11:24:13 PM

sendtodave: MurphyMurphy: FormlessOne: It's amazing how quickly some folks defend fascism - at least, until they're the ones staring down the barrel of a gun.

Some people want to be ruled. Freedom is a scary unpredictable thing.

So obviously, people insisting on freedom are just trying to scare people.

So therefore freedom == terrorism.

Our founding fathers were instigators, insurrectionists, some would even say that they were terrorists.  Their rebellion ruined the lives of many honest, hard working, god and king fearing people.

If you were a businessman in the 1760s, doing steady trade with Britain, would you support those that flout the law, even though the law is burdensome?

Most people wouldn't, I don't think.

I got mine, fark your revolution.


There comes a point where the regulations become so burdensome that it is literally impossible to make an  honest buck.
Many of King loving businessmen were simply con artists and corruptible bastards that used the system against their competition to the detriment of the public.  Eventually the populace they drained their wealth from got tired of fighting for them and wanted a better deal.

It doesn't take the majority to overthrow a government.
A nation wide sense of ambivalence towards a besieged leadership will serve just as well.

/Its kind of where we're at now.
/The government needs things like Prism because, in a nation where its impossible to keep a secret, no one cares to tell it about the terrorists.
 
2013-07-20 11:24:15 PM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-07-20 11:26:15 PM

sendtodave: UnspokenVoice: fnordfocus: Smackledorfer: That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.

Lying once again?

I'm guessing you've never had to taint yourself by filling out a job application?

Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.

There is a lot of ignorance about background checks. I've done lots of them - some quite extensive for work on government contracts. You're an idiot if you think this will show up on a background check. That is all.

I figured it doesn't, because I had to personally get a "no prior arrest" statement from the police station in order to rent an apartment once (I had really shiatty credit).

I figured that if they could view prior arrest records, they wouldn't need me to go get that myself.

Convictions?  I'm not sure about.


Detaining is not arresting. Just so you are aware. If you get a court date, that's on record. Getting stopped and a warning? That doesn't even make the records even if they gave you a warning on paper.
 
2013-07-20 11:26:20 PM

sendtodave: ...in order to rent an apartment

Oh, an the underlying message there, of course, is that they wouldn't have rented me an apartment if I had even had an arrest record, let alone a criminal record.  Man, I feel bad for all those poor schmucks whose life is ruined because they were carrying a little bit of weed.


Requiring a "no prior arrest" query for prospective tenants is a recipe for the landlord to be sued, and lose.

But like job interview questions, most people are more interested in having employment or a roof over their heads than justice, and so these illegal policies are tolerated.
 
2013-07-20 11:26:34 PM
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2013-07-20 11:28:37 PM
Benevolent Misanthrope:

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.

Completely and totally off point for the situation at hand. She did not call them. It was not about trusting them. Sometimes it's all about surviving them.
 
2013-07-20 11:28:58 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Pray 4 Mojo: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

Here is the problem with that (assuming this is a reasonably accurate description of that the Marshal actually said):

But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

"Open up. It's the police" does not give officers free reign to do whatever the fark they want.

Screaming heard from inside the apartment, no one answers when the police identify themselves, to me that's a legitimate reason to open the door to check on the safety of those inside.


Eeeexcept for the part where they'd been searching the  entire complex without warrants and had just  aimed a gun at the woman. 'Fruit of the Poisonous Tree' may not apply here in practice, but it damn well does in theory--if you aim a gun through a window, then hear a scream, no, you don't get to claim someone's life is in danger, because  you can no longer tell if they're screaming because of you or someone else.
 
2013-07-20 11:32:02 PM
I just realized I've been posting in this thread for over 7 hours.

Screw you guys... I'm going home.
 
2013-07-20 11:33:54 PM
Video, video, video. Everyone must video the cops at all times. It is important to create a panopticon for the cops. Every infraction must then be followed up with legal action. Sue, sue, sue.
 
m00
2013-07-20 11:35:30 PM

PsiChick: Eeeexcept for the part where they'd been searching the entire complex without warrants and had just aimed a gun at the woman. 'Fruit of the Poisonous Tree' may not apply here in practice, but it damn well does in theory--if you aim a gun through a window, then hear a scream, no, you don't get to claim someone's life is in danger, because you can no longer tell if they're screaming because of you or someone else.


its exactly the same as planting drugs on someone and then claiming you lawfully searched them because you found drugs. Oh wait, this happens though.
 
2013-07-20 11:40:01 PM

puddleonfire: LAWSUIT!!!! LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!


So what difference will that make? The cops themselves couldn't care less. It's not their money. They won't be fired. A lawsuit is no bother to them.

Yes, there is a way to sue cops personally, but it rarely happens. (Sorry I forget the details and what has to have happened and so forth, but there is a mechanism to go after them, but their pockets aren't deep enough to make it worth it. Simply an exercise in justice)
 
2013-07-20 11:43:37 PM

ChicagoKev: sendtodave: ...in order to rent an apartment

Oh, an the underlying message there, of course, is that they wouldn't have rented me an apartment if I had even had an arrest record, let alone a criminal record.  Man, I feel bad for all those poor schmucks whose life is ruined because they were carrying a little bit of weed.

Requiring a "no prior arrest" query for prospective tenants is a recipe for the landlord to be sued, and lose.

But like job interview questions, most people are more interested in having employment or a roof over their heads than justice, and so these illegal policies are tolerated.


Ever been arrested is an illegal question on employment applications. If asked just answer no. If they proceed to the background check phase they probably already made a conditional offer of employment. If they decline later then sue.
 
2013-07-20 11:49:10 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: I just realized I've been posting in this thread for over 7 hours.

Screw you guys... I'm going home.


No one likes you there either
 
2013-07-20 11:50:17 PM

leadmetal: puddleonfire: LAWSUIT!!!! LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!

So what difference will that make? The cops themselves couldn't care less. It's not their money. They won't be fired. A lawsuit is no bother to them.

Yes, there is a way to sue cops personally, but it rarely happens. (Sorry I forget the details and what has to have happened and so forth, but there is a mechanism to go after them, but their pockets aren't deep enough to make it worth it. Simply an exercise in justice)


1. File a big suit
2. Take the settlement offer from the city contingent on the introduction of robust, long, and boring re-training program for each member of the department.
3. Use the money to buy a billboard reminding the citizens of their rights next to the police station.

/it's been done before, I just don't feel like looking up the cite
 
2013-07-21 12:01:42 AM

puddleonfire: LAWSUIT!!!! LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!


Yeah too bad we (taxpayers) have to foot the bill so Barney Fife can get a stiffy from terrorizing innocent people.
 
2013-07-21 12:05:39 AM

obamadidcoke: /it's been done before, I just don't feel like looking up the cite


Something something ... Fraternal Order of Police ... something something ... Free Lawyer ... something something ... Paid Vacation ... something something ... Hero ... Thin Blue Line ... something something ... Children! ... etc ...
 
2013-07-21 12:08:47 AM
I am acquaintances with a few police officers. They seem generally nice. It prevents me from simply saying "fark the police" anymore. A little compassion would go a long way with a lot of people, particularly in this situation.
 
2013-07-21 12:12:15 AM

evilboyevil: I am acquaintances with a few police officers. They seem generally nice. It prevents me from simply saying "fark the police" anymore. A little compassion would go a long way with a lot of people, particularly in this situation.


I know a few racists. Other than hating blacks and Jews for no substantive reason, they are pretty decent people.

/eye roll
 
2013-07-21 12:13:35 AM

evilboyevil: I am acquaintances with a few police officers. They seem generally nice. It prevents me from simply saying "fark the police" anymore. A little compassion would go a long way with a lot of people, particularly in this situation.


You sound white.
 
2013-07-21 12:14:04 AM
api.ning.com
 
2013-07-21 12:14:47 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Gyrfalcon: KimNorth: The police are starting to use unmarked SUV's on the freeway to pull people over. I am telling you right now I am not going to stop for one because they don't even have the light strips inside as to not give them away while undercover. They use a beeping light flashing thing??? I will be calling 911 first requesting clarity from them and or a marked car. I'm sure I'll be promptly given a talking on a cell while driving ticket along with my speeding ticket!

Do that. You're allowed. In fact, any decent cop or trooper would understand if you are a female that you are wary of pulling over for ANYONE on the freeway. But do this:

1. Turn on your hazard lights. This indicates you've seen the officer and intend to comply with the pull-over signal.
2. Slow down and use your turn signal. Same as above.
3. Exit at the nearest off-ramp.
4. Pull over at the nearest well-lit public location, such as a gas station or supermarket parking lot.
5. Roll down your window, turn on the interior light, and keep your hands on the steering wheel.
6. When the cop yells at you What the F*CK were you doing?!!?!?? explain in a calm, rational voice that you were nervous about pulling off the freeway for an unmarked unit because [insert reasonable excuse here] and you indicated your willingness to comply by your actions.
7. Then obey every command subsequently given as to producing ID, registration, insurance, signing the ticket, etc. Do not get into a debate about the legality of your ticket, and don't argue with the cop over the constitutionality of the unmarked car. Save that for court.

8. Cry to get out of the ticket.


For #8 to work, you either need to be a hot college chick or a MILF with spectacular gazongas.
 
2013-07-21 12:15:01 AM
And the real kicker is the last sentence:

"Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press." "

Oh, so this sh*tsack not only violates several laws against illegal searches, but also thinks he can revoke a person's First Amendment right of Free Speech and to keep their trap shut, huh?

God, I hope this PIG gets one right between the eyes from a psycho of gang-banger soon. Very very soon. He is a bigger threat to society than any child-raping fugitive.
 
2013-07-21 12:24:47 AM

TV's Vinnie: And the real kicker is the last sentence:

"Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press." "

Oh, so this sh*tsack not only violates several laws against illegal searches, but also thinks he can revoke a person's First Amendment right of Free Speech and to keep their trap shut, huh?

God, I hope this PIG gets one right between the eyes from a psycho of gang-banger soon. Very very soon. He is a bigger threat to society than any child-raping fugitive.


Us versus them, man, Us versus them.

/they have more guns
//paramilitary training
///and the law on their side no matter what
 
2013-07-21 12:25:36 AM

OtherLittleGuy: Yup.... and after a few more of these, a group of criminals will kelvar up, raid a place as "police", and they're be able to get in and out without incident, until the local police find out, "hey! that wasn't OUR raid!"


This is actually how drug robberies go down all the time.
 
2013-07-21 12:34:22 AM

obamadidcoke: leadmetal: puddleonfire: LAWSUIT!!!! LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!

So what difference will that make? The cops themselves couldn't care less. It's not their money. They won't be fired. A lawsuit is no bother to them.

Yes, there is a way to sue cops personally, but it rarely happens. (Sorry I forget the details and what has to have happened and so forth, but there is a mechanism to go after them, but their pockets aren't deep enough to make it worth it. Simply an exercise in justice)

1. File a big suit
2. Take the settlement offer from the city contingent on the introduction of robust, long, and boring re-training program for each member of the department.
3. Use the money to buy a billboard reminding the citizens of their rights next to the police station.

/it's been done before, I just don't feel like looking up the cite


But did it accomplish anything?

I've never seen a lawsuit make any fundamental change in the greater local metro area.
 
2013-07-21 12:47:25 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Frederick: Mithiwithi: Who in Boston said no and got their house searched anyway?

Are you suggesting permission was asked?

Not trolling... seriously don't know...

DO we KNOW that permission wasn't asked in the Boston door to door searches?


The original question is kind of a straw man argument in that no one really believes there was a choice for the occupants.  And I highly doubt the BPD was asking "may we come in and search?".  Furthermore the courts are clear and consistent in ruling that coercion does not equal consent.

If I were in that neighborhood I probably simply would have not answered the door.

Listening to the scanner that night and participating in the fark thread I was troubled by what I thought was a contradiction:

That it was wrong to oppose the house to house searches; yet correct to accept the imposed curfew.  Maybe if Boston had let residents out of their homes it wouldnt have taken so damned long to find the sucker.  As it turned out the police werent the solution, the civilians were.  So really, where is the justification for the draconian overstepping?

Pray 4 Mojo: Seriously... the only thing I can find on the web is low level blog sites and message boards re-hashing the HT story.

Something smells.


That is certainly a red flag.  Even if the story is only a hypothetical, it is still worthy of discussion.
 
2013-07-21 12:48:00 AM
"I feel bad for her," Wiggins conceded, finally. "But at the same time, I had to reasonably believe the bad guy was in her house based on what they were doing."

Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."


Bullet to the back of that pig's skull.
 
2013-07-21 12:59:25 AM

fnordfocus: davidphogan: I've been detained by police over the years several times, it's never shown up on any background check I've been through related to employment.

I've been told by an Officer that it's recorded every time he looks up my info is recorded, and that "too many" inquiries would be a red flag to employers.  If that's true, I'd imagine being detained or arrested would be a very big red flag, or was he misleading me?


How skillful. You make up lies to show how evil cops are, and now your fallback is that cops must be evil to mislead you so!
 
2013-07-21 01:04:44 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.


Pretty much like any gang.
 
2013-07-21 01:09:28 AM
Someone post the guy with Christmas lights blaming the cops for doing it!
 
2013-07-21 01:17:33 AM
Hey, remember when police were cool guys who were there to help you out in your time of need?

Yeah, me neither.
 
2013-07-21 01:27:20 AM

MrHappyRotter: because the cops mistook hibiscus for marijuana


That's pretty impressive.  How can *anyone* mistake the two?

TuteTibiImperes: 3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)


How much more likely is it that you will hear screaming inside a given house from a woman in legitimate distress, or just from someone watching a horror movie on TV?
 
2013-07-21 01:46:41 AM
I made a petition to stop the violations of the 4th amendment. SIGN IT!

http://wh.gov/lCXwg
 
2013-07-21 01:52:48 AM

ILIKECHEESEMORE: I made a petition to stop the violations of the 4th amendment. SIGN IT!

http://wh.gov/lCXwg


While your intentions are sound, I personally would prefer that someone would put a bullet through the back of U.S. Marshal Matt Wiggins' skull.

But more power to ya.
 
2013-07-21 01:58:25 AM

obamadidcoke: 1. File a big suit
2. Take the settlement of