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(Herald Tribune (SW Florida))   Remember those warrantless door to door searches everyone was okay with in Boston because it was a unique circumstance and other police agencies would never try it? Welcome to the new America   (heraldtribune.com) divider line 582
    More: Asinine, Louise Goldsberry, United States Marshals Service, police raid, home invasions  
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25527 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jul 2013 at 6:02 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-20 11:40:01 PM  

puddleonfire: LAWSUIT!!!! LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!


So what difference will that make? The cops themselves couldn't care less. It's not their money. They won't be fired. A lawsuit is no bother to them.

Yes, there is a way to sue cops personally, but it rarely happens. (Sorry I forget the details and what has to have happened and so forth, but there is a mechanism to go after them, but their pockets aren't deep enough to make it worth it. Simply an exercise in justice)
 
2013-07-20 11:49:10 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: I just realized I've been posting in this thread for over 7 hours.

Screw you guys... I'm going home.


No one likes you there either
 
2013-07-21 12:01:42 AM  

puddleonfire: LAWSUIT!!!! LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!


Yeah too bad we (taxpayers) have to foot the bill so Barney Fife can get a stiffy from terrorizing innocent people.
 
2013-07-21 12:05:39 AM  

obamadidcoke: /it's been done before, I just don't feel like looking up the cite


Something something ... Fraternal Order of Police ... something something ... Free Lawyer ... something something ... Paid Vacation ... something something ... Hero ... Thin Blue Line ... something something ... Children! ... etc ...
 
2013-07-21 12:08:47 AM  
I am acquaintances with a few police officers. They seem generally nice. It prevents me from simply saying "fark the police" anymore. A little compassion would go a long way with a lot of people, particularly in this situation.
 
2013-07-21 12:12:15 AM  

evilboyevil: I am acquaintances with a few police officers. They seem generally nice. It prevents me from simply saying "fark the police" anymore. A little compassion would go a long way with a lot of people, particularly in this situation.


I know a few racists. Other than hating blacks and Jews for no substantive reason, they are pretty decent people.

/eye roll
 
2013-07-21 12:13:35 AM  

evilboyevil: I am acquaintances with a few police officers. They seem generally nice. It prevents me from simply saying "fark the police" anymore. A little compassion would go a long way with a lot of people, particularly in this situation.


You sound white.
 
2013-07-21 12:14:04 AM  
api.ning.com
 
2013-07-21 12:14:47 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Gyrfalcon: KimNorth: The police are starting to use unmarked SUV's on the freeway to pull people over. I am telling you right now I am not going to stop for one because they don't even have the light strips inside as to not give them away while undercover. They use a beeping light flashing thing??? I will be calling 911 first requesting clarity from them and or a marked car. I'm sure I'll be promptly given a talking on a cell while driving ticket along with my speeding ticket!

Do that. You're allowed. In fact, any decent cop or trooper would understand if you are a female that you are wary of pulling over for ANYONE on the freeway. But do this:

1. Turn on your hazard lights. This indicates you've seen the officer and intend to comply with the pull-over signal.
2. Slow down and use your turn signal. Same as above.
3. Exit at the nearest off-ramp.
4. Pull over at the nearest well-lit public location, such as a gas station or supermarket parking lot.
5. Roll down your window, turn on the interior light, and keep your hands on the steering wheel.
6. When the cop yells at you What the F*CK were you doing?!!?!?? explain in a calm, rational voice that you were nervous about pulling off the freeway for an unmarked unit because [insert reasonable excuse here] and you indicated your willingness to comply by your actions.
7. Then obey every command subsequently given as to producing ID, registration, insurance, signing the ticket, etc. Do not get into a debate about the legality of your ticket, and don't argue with the cop over the constitutionality of the unmarked car. Save that for court.

8. Cry to get out of the ticket.


For #8 to work, you either need to be a hot college chick or a MILF with spectacular gazongas.
 
2013-07-21 12:15:01 AM  
And the real kicker is the last sentence:

"Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press." "

Oh, so this sh*tsack not only violates several laws against illegal searches, but also thinks he can revoke a person's First Amendment right of Free Speech and to keep their trap shut, huh?

God, I hope this PIG gets one right between the eyes from a psycho of gang-banger soon. Very very soon. He is a bigger threat to society than any child-raping fugitive.
 
2013-07-21 12:24:47 AM  

TV's Vinnie: And the real kicker is the last sentence:

"Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press." "

Oh, so this sh*tsack not only violates several laws against illegal searches, but also thinks he can revoke a person's First Amendment right of Free Speech and to keep their trap shut, huh?

God, I hope this PIG gets one right between the eyes from a psycho of gang-banger soon. Very very soon. He is a bigger threat to society than any child-raping fugitive.


Us versus them, man, Us versus them.

/they have more guns
//paramilitary training
///and the law on their side no matter what
 
2013-07-21 12:25:36 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: Yup.... and after a few more of these, a group of criminals will kelvar up, raid a place as "police", and they're be able to get in and out without incident, until the local police find out, "hey! that wasn't OUR raid!"


This is actually how drug robberies go down all the time.
 
2013-07-21 12:34:22 AM  

obamadidcoke: leadmetal: puddleonfire: LAWSUIT!!!! LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!  LAWSUIT!!!!

So what difference will that make? The cops themselves couldn't care less. It's not their money. They won't be fired. A lawsuit is no bother to them.

Yes, there is a way to sue cops personally, but it rarely happens. (Sorry I forget the details and what has to have happened and so forth, but there is a mechanism to go after them, but their pockets aren't deep enough to make it worth it. Simply an exercise in justice)

1. File a big suit
2. Take the settlement offer from the city contingent on the introduction of robust, long, and boring re-training program for each member of the department.
3. Use the money to buy a billboard reminding the citizens of their rights next to the police station.

/it's been done before, I just don't feel like looking up the cite


But did it accomplish anything?

I've never seen a lawsuit make any fundamental change in the greater local metro area.
 
2013-07-21 12:47:25 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Frederick: Mithiwithi: Who in Boston said no and got their house searched anyway?

Are you suggesting permission was asked?

Not trolling... seriously don't know...

DO we KNOW that permission wasn't asked in the Boston door to door searches?


The original question is kind of a straw man argument in that no one really believes there was a choice for the occupants.  And I highly doubt the BPD was asking "may we come in and search?".  Furthermore the courts are clear and consistent in ruling that coercion does not equal consent.

If I were in that neighborhood I probably simply would have not answered the door.

Listening to the scanner that night and participating in the fark thread I was troubled by what I thought was a contradiction:

That it was wrong to oppose the house to house searches; yet correct to accept the imposed curfew.  Maybe if Boston had let residents out of their homes it wouldnt have taken so damned long to find the sucker.  As it turned out the police werent the solution, the civilians were.  So really, where is the justification for the draconian overstepping?

Pray 4 Mojo: Seriously... the only thing I can find on the web is low level blog sites and message boards re-hashing the HT story.

Something smells.


That is certainly a red flag.  Even if the story is only a hypothetical, it is still worthy of discussion.
 
2013-07-21 12:48:00 AM  
"I feel bad for her," Wiggins conceded, finally. "But at the same time, I had to reasonably believe the bad guy was in her house based on what they were doing."

Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."


Bullet to the back of that pig's skull.
 
2013-07-21 12:59:25 AM  

fnordfocus: davidphogan: I've been detained by police over the years several times, it's never shown up on any background check I've been through related to employment.

I've been told by an Officer that it's recorded every time he looks up my info is recorded, and that "too many" inquiries would be a red flag to employers.  If that's true, I'd imagine being detained or arrested would be a very big red flag, or was he misleading me?


How skillful. You make up lies to show how evil cops are, and now your fallback is that cops must be evil to mislead you so!
 
2013-07-21 01:04:44 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.


Pretty much like any gang.
 
2013-07-21 01:09:28 AM  
Someone post the guy with Christmas lights blaming the cops for doing it!
 
2013-07-21 01:17:33 AM  
Hey, remember when police were cool guys who were there to help you out in your time of need?

Yeah, me neither.
 
2013-07-21 01:27:20 AM  

MrHappyRotter: because the cops mistook hibiscus for marijuana


That's pretty impressive.  How can *anyone* mistake the two?

TuteTibiImperes: 3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)


How much more likely is it that you will hear screaming inside a given house from a woman in legitimate distress, or just from someone watching a horror movie on TV?
 
2013-07-21 01:46:41 AM  
I made a petition to stop the violations of the 4th amendment. SIGN IT!

http://wh.gov/lCXwg
 
2013-07-21 01:52:48 AM  

ILIKECHEESEMORE: I made a petition to stop the violations of the 4th amendment. SIGN IT!

http://wh.gov/lCXwg


While your intentions are sound, I personally would prefer that someone would put a bullet through the back of U.S. Marshal Matt Wiggins' skull.

But more power to ya.
 
2013-07-21 01:58:25 AM  

obamadidcoke: 1. File a big suit
2. Take the settlement offer from the city contingent on the introduction of robust, long, and boring re-training program for each member of the department.
3. Use the money to buy a billboard reminding the citizens of their rights next to the police station.



Personally, I think people should file HUGE lawsuits (for the publicity), but then make a quite reasonable settlement offer- A decent amount of money, AND each and every cop involved in your case being FIRED (no pensions), and never hired in a cop (or cop-like) position again.

It's a win-win. Either you're RICH, and basically have immunity from the cops, OR the cops who bothered you are GONE. And their friends who remain will have to think twice before they hassle you- do they want to be fired, too?
 
2013-07-21 02:04:10 AM  

fnordfocus: davidphogan: I've been detained by police over the years several times, it's never shown up on any background check I've been through related to employment.

I've been told by an Officer that it's recorded every time he looks up my info is recorded, and that "too many" inquiries would be a red flag to employers.  If that's true, I'd imagine being detained or arrested would be a very big red flag, or was he misleading me?


You were lied to.  I've done background checks, contacts aren't listed.
 
2013-07-21 02:08:50 AM  

Mitch Taylor's Bro: Fark has a metropolis of village idiots!


The collective noun for a group of village idiots is a "tea party"
 
2013-07-21 02:11:15 AM  

BuckTurgidson: ILIKECHEESEMORE: I made a petition to stop the violations of the 4th amendment. SIGN IT!

http://wh.gov/lCXwg

While your intentions are sound, I personally would prefer that someone would put a bullet through the back of U.S. Marshal Matt Wiggins' skull.

But more power to ya.


So you are too much of a pussy to execute the justice you call for?
 
2013-07-21 02:14:52 AM  

Smackledorfer: BuckTurgidson: ILIKECHEESEMORE: I made a petition to stop the violations of the 4th amendment. SIGN IT!

http://wh.gov/lCXwg

While your intentions are sound, I personally would prefer that someone would put a bullet through the back of U.S. Marshal Matt Wiggins' skull.

But more power to ya.

So you are too much of a pussy to execute the justice you call for?


We must execute our every wish immediately otherwise be rebuked for wishing them?

You must have no substantive wishes left, sir. I salute you.
 
2013-07-21 02:16:02 AM  

ManateeGag: Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.

what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


No offense but you're an idiot. Prior poster was repeating what is taught in law school. Just because you haven't been screwed yet doesn't mean you won't ever and if you do it can possibly ruin your life.
 
2013-07-21 02:45:07 AM  

Z1P2: No offense but you're an idiot. Prior poster was repeating what is taught in law school. Just because you haven't been screwed yet doesn't mean you won't ever and if you do it can possibly ruin your life.


Uh, I'm one of the most pro-LE people on this website, and even I'll tell you that unless you have a reason to be around the cops, it's probably best you don't do so. And even if they are your friends, the moment you commit a crime or are a suspect in a crime, that friendship is over. You are now a perp, not a friend.

Do not talk to the cops about anything without a lawyer present.
Do not consent to anything you are not legally bound to do. Do only the minimum necessary to meet the law.
Do not admit to anything. Be polite, but do NOT admit guilt.
Do not consent to a search.
If you have a HCP, you are only required to inform the officer that you have a carry permit, and if you are armed or not.
Be very careful what you say, and say only the minimum information you need to get out of the situation without incriminating yourself.
 
2013-07-21 02:46:08 AM  

BuckTurgidson: Smackledorfer: BuckTurgidson: ILIKECHEESEMORE: I made a petition to stop the violations of the 4th amendment. SIGN IT!

http://wh.gov/lCXwg

While your intentions are sound, I personally would prefer that someone would put a bullet through the back of U.S. Marshal Matt Wiggins' skull.

But more power to ya.

So you are too much of a pussy to execute the justice you call for?

We must execute our every wish immediately otherwise be rebuked for wishing them?

You must have no substantive wishes left, sir. I salute you.


I put my money where my mouth is. I see that you don't. There is nothing wrong with being a coward, I suppose. Being a chickenhawk otoh...
 
2013-07-21 02:46:31 AM  

Smirky the Wonder Chimp: See, they believe that as long as the right sort of dictator is in charge, everything will be fine


I guess our current rock doesn't have the right accent.

/obscure?
 
2013-07-21 03:04:00 AM  
I don't see why they wouldn't take the time to adequately identify themselves as officers.

I mean, it's piss easy to do.

Just shout "GIVE US ALL YOUR ANABOLIC STEROIDS AND PASTRY OR WE'LL SHOOT YOUR DOG AND IMPOUND YOUR CAR!" and then fire a couple of warning magazines through the door.

Come on, guys, bring your A game if you want things to go smoothly
 
2013-07-21 03:15:21 AM  

hardinparamedic: If you have a HCP, you are only required to inform the officer that you have a carry permit, and if you are armed or not.


In some states, not all (mine is among those that don't require it).  Having said that, use your best judgment, taking the situation into account.  The professional conversation you're having with an officer can change *very* quickly if your shirt tail blows up and he sees the concealed Glock you're (legally) carrying.
 
2013-07-21 03:20:12 AM  

cgremlin: hardinparamedic: If you have a HCP, you are only required to inform the officer that you have a carry permit, and if you are armed or not.

In some states, not all (mine is among those that don't require it).  Having said that, use your best judgment, taking the situation into account.  The professional conversation you're having with an officer can change *very* quickly if your shirt tail blows up and he sees the concealed Glock you're (legally) carrying.


I got to reverse that years ago. Two cops coming onto my Air Force base while I was working the gate, going to visit OSI, both plainclothes. I asked if they were carrying, and they, with a surprised expression, said they were. End result, OSI had to come out to escort them, and their sidearms stayed snugly in a lockbox. No, Mr. Policeman, on a military base under high security, you are a civilian and you do not get to carry.
 
2013-07-21 03:25:34 AM  

cgremlin: In some states, not all (mine is among those that don't require it).  Having said that, use your best judgment, taking the situation into account.  The professional conversation you're having with an officer can change *very* quickly if your shirt tail blows up and he sees the concealed Glock you're (legally) carrying.


It's generally a good idea in a HCP/Concealed Carry state if you're pulled over to tell the cop you're armed. When I carry, I either have my SW99 at the small of my back, or I have my bersa under my waistband. Either one is going to be visible when I pull my wallet out. And I really don't want the cop to think I'm going for a piece.

It's also been my experience (Disclaimer: White guy, non-threatening, frequently wears girly colors) that the cops tend to be more relaxed around someone who does hold a HCP and informs them about it.
 
2013-07-21 03:31:30 AM  
When they start pulling this shiat on white people they have gone too far!

/sarcasm
 
2013-07-21 03:59:29 AM  

m00: undercover Denver cops posing as violent protesters.


Wait, what?


agent provocateur
 
2013-07-21 04:15:31 AM  

ManateeGag: Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.

what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


You sound not black...
 
2013-07-21 04:16:09 AM  

Boojum2k: cgremlin: hardinparamedic: If you have a HCP, you are only required to inform the officer that you have a carry permit, and if you are armed or not.

In some states, not all (mine is among those that don't require it).  Having said that, use your best judgment, taking the situation into account.  The professional conversation you're having with an officer can change *very* quickly if your shirt tail blows up and he sees the concealed Glock you're (legally) carrying.

I got to reverse that years ago. Two cops coming onto my Air Force base while I was working the gate, going to visit OSI, both plainclothes. I asked if they were carrying, and they, with a surprised expression, said they were. End result, OSI had to come out to escort them, and their sidearms stayed snugly in a lockbox. No, Mr. Policeman, on a military base under high security, you are a civilian and you do not get to carry.


Whoa - a cop treated as a lowly civilian?!  I wish I could have seen that....must have been a long time ago.
 
2013-07-21 04:25:59 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Whoa - a cop treated as a lowly civilian?! I wish I could have seen that....must have been a long time ago.


Pretty sure it happens frequently when they come onto a military base. It was a while ago, but I doubt they've changed those rules. And yes, they looked like they had raw lemon for lunch when turning in their sidearms.

Good times.
 
2013-07-21 04:26:42 AM  

hardinparamedic: Z1P2: No offense but you're an idiot. Prior poster was repeating what is taught in law school. Just because you haven't been screwed yet doesn't mean you won't ever and if you do it can possibly ruin your life.

Uh, I'm one of the most pro-LE people on this website, and even I'll tell you that unless you have a reason to be around the cops, it's probably best you don't do so. And even if they are your friends, the moment you commit a crime or are a suspect in a crime, that friendship is over. You are now a perp, not a friend.

Do not talk to the cops about anything without a lawyer present.
Do not consent to anything you are not legally bound to do. Do only the minimum necessary to meet the law.
Do not admit to anything. Be polite, but do NOT admit guilt.
Do not consent to a search.
If you have a HCP, you are only required to inform the officer that you have a carry permit, and if you are armed or not.
Be very careful what you say, and say only the minimum information you need to get out of the situation without incriminating yourself.


Always start your audio or (better) video recorder and ask the police multiple times if

a, you are legally required to perform their requests and

b, they are legally allowed to perform their actions.

"Yes officer, I would never interfere with you performing your duties, Am I legally required to do that? Which law requires me to do that? Are you allowed to do that under the law? Which law?"

Then as soon as they overstep the mark, all evidence gathered from that point becomes fruit from the tainted tree...

How to talk to the police as a white male in the UK (youtube)
 
2013-07-21 04:43:49 AM  

FormlessOne: That's the problem with escalation. If it happens, you lose. You want to do something useful? Push for de-militarizing the cops, not militarizing the civilians.


Personally I'm all for taking away hand guns from the public and assault weapons and tactical gear from cops.

\Not going to happen, but I'm for it,
 
2013-07-21 04:46:06 AM  

redmid17: fnordfocus: Smackledorfer: That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.

Lying once again?

I'm guessing you've never had to taint yourself by filling out a job application?

Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.

You apparently haven't. They ask you if you've been convicted of a felony. I've also seen them ask if you've been convicted of a crime that was punishable by more than a year in prison, but I'd say 95% of the job application I've filled out only refer to felonies. But to your point, even a detention or contact wouldn't prevent someone from hiring you, and they don't show up on background checks. I know. I've seen the full printout of border background checks and typical job background checks. Only things they've processed you for will show up unless it is some type of drinking ticket. Basically unless you've got the option for a court date, it isn't going to show up.


They keep record of every detention, even if they don't take you in, and it will all show up if you are ever being vetted for security clearance.

"Why didn't you include being pulled over in 1989 on your form?"

"Because I was sixteen and I was let go with a warning."

"We clearly asked for everything."
 
2013-07-21 04:46:36 AM  

dready zim: hardinparamedic: Z1P2: No offense but you're an idiot. Prior poster was repeating what is taught in law school. Just because you haven't been screwed yet doesn't mean you won't ever and if you do it can possibly ruin your life.

Uh, I'm one of the most pro-LE people on this website, and even I'll tell you that unless you have a reason to be around the cops, it's probably best you don't do so. And even if they are your friends, the moment you commit a crime or are a suspect in a crime, that friendship is over. You are now a perp, not a friend.

Do not talk to the cops about anything without a lawyer present.
Do not consent to anything you are not legally bound to do. Do only the minimum necessary to meet the law.
Do not admit to anything. Be polite, but do NOT admit guilt.
Do not consent to a search.
If you have a HCP, you are only required to inform the officer that you have a carry permit, and if you are armed or not.
Be very careful what you say, and say only the minimum information you need to get out of the situation without incriminating yourself.

Always start your audio or (better) video recorder and ask the police multiple times if

a, you are legally required to perform their requests and

b, they are legally allowed to perform their actions.

"Yes officer, I would never interfere with you performing your duties, Am I legally required to do that? Which law requires me to do that? Are you allowed to do that under the law? Which law?"

Then as soon as they overstep the mark, all evidence gathered from that point becomes fruit from the tainted tree...

How to talk to the police as a white male in the UK (youtube)



hmmm not sure about the above since in the us - cops are allowed to lie to you

http://www.officer.com/article/10233095/training-cops-to-lie-pt-1
"Police lie. It's part of their job. They lie to suspects and others in hopes of obtaining evidence. These investigative lies cover a wide web of deception - a web that can get tangled. Some investigative lies are legal, some are not, and some generate significant disagreement amongst courts, prosecutors, the public and officers themselves."
 
2013-07-21 04:48:15 AM  

hardinparamedic: Z1P2: No offense but you're an idiot. Prior poster was repeating what is taught in law school. Just because you haven't been screwed yet doesn't mean you won't ever and if you do it can possibly ruin your life.

Uh, I'm one of the most pro-LE people on this website, and even I'll tell you that unless you have a reason to be around the cops, it's probably best you don't do so. And even if they are your friends, the moment you commit a crime or are a suspect in a crime, that friendship is over. You are now a perp, not a friend.

Do not talk to the cops about anything without a lawyer present.
Do not consent to anything you are not legally bound to do. Do only the minimum necessary to meet the law.
Do not admit to anything. Be polite, but do NOT admit guilt.
Do not consent to a search.
If you have a HCP, you are only required to inform the officer that you have a carry permit, and if you are armed or not.
Be very careful what you say, and say only the minimum information you need to get out of the situation without incriminating yourself.


Seconded. And as someone with a JD and who was a part-time cop, I can tell you that if/when it gets to the point that the cops want to search you or ask you questions, they WILL find a reason to search you and they WILL be able to justify anything they do afterwards in their report and in court. So keep your mouth shut unless you absolutely have to.

That said, there's no reason to be an asshole and give them a reason. When they pull you over even if it's for a bullshiat did-you-know-your-taillight-was-broken stop, be polite, hand over your credentials, DO NOT get into a pissing match with them about your rights or how your light is not broken. Sign the ticket and then ask politely if you may leave. If you want to make an issue of it, hire an attorney and do it in court. So many people get themselves into trouble they weren't going to get into by deciding that the best way to fight for their rights is to show the cop how much they know about Constitutional law. This is a mistake.
 
2013-07-21 04:51:46 AM  

ChicagoKev: fnordfocus: I'm guessing you've never had to taint yourself by filling out a job application?

Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.

Sorry, but you're wrong.  First, in the USA asking about arrest records is generally not permissible.  Aside from state laws against such questions in job interviews, the EEOC also has made it clear that asking this is a good for an employer to get sued, and lose.

Second, most background checks are actually "criminal record checks"; they don't have access to general police records, only court records (charged, indicted, convicted, etc).  A detention or "contact" without any charges filed doesn't appear in court records.


I haven't seen a job application in decades that didn't ask about convictions.  I seem to recall a couple that asked if you had been charged.  Regardless, all they have to do is claim that they don't deny employment based on that information to get around the EEOC regulation.

/took me years to save up the paltry fees to get my record expunged.  Once I could legally claim no convictions I was offered the next three jobs for which I applied.
 
2013-07-21 04:57:02 AM  
A door not answered is a reasonable reason to bust in and point your gun at people.  This is how cops think.  More precisely, this is how they don't think correctly.  They have a great deal of authority and are protected by many different layers legally.  This leads to a distinct lack of empathy and a definite spike in feelings of personal entitlement.
 
2013-07-21 05:42:02 AM  

cgremlin: MrHappyRotter: because the cops mistook hibiscus for marijuana

That's pretty impressive.  How can *anyone* mistake the two?


i.imgur.com


An everyday, untrained person ... I can maybe understand.

A trained police officer on the other hand, has no rational or reasonable excuse.  What takes it over the top is that the plants weren't visible from the street to begin with, and after convincing the officer that it wasn't pot, something that should have been clear and obvious, I was told in a threatening manner that I'm asking for trouble for growing it.
 
2013-07-21 05:44:27 AM  

Heffaloo: redmid17: fnordfocus: Smackledorfer: That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.

Lying once again?

I'm guessing you've never had to taint yourself by filling out a job application?

Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.

You apparently haven't. They ask you if you've been convicted of a felony. I've also seen them ask if you've been convicted of a crime that was punishable by more than a year in prison, but I'd say 95% of the job application I've filled out only refer to felonies. But to your point, even a detention or contact wouldn't prevent someone from hiring you, and they don't show up on background checks. I know. I've seen the full printout of border background checks and typical job background checks. Only things they've processed you for will show up unless it is some type of drinking ticket. Basically unless you've got the option for a court date, it isn't going to show up.

They keep record of every detention, even if they don't take you in, and it will all show up if you are ever being vetted for security clearance.

"Why didn't you include being pulled over in 1989 on your form?"

"Because I was sixteen and I was let go with a warning."

"We clearly asked for everything."


If you try to get a job at an important enough place, they'll have a record of the time you maliciously farted in a McD's and laughed so hard they asked you to leave. They'll know if you got detention too many times in high school.

The shiat they run on you for a job at a bank, or a border crossing, or whatever pedestrian shiat obviously isn't going to show anything that isn't major.

How does this require a discussion or argument? It's farking known by anyone that's pursued a job that secure.
 
2013-07-21 05:57:55 AM  

MurphyMurphy: If you try to get a job at an important enough place, they'll have a record of the time you maliciously farted in a McD's and laughed so hard they asked you to leave. They'll know if you got detention too many times in high school.

The shiat they run on you for a job at a bank, or a border crossing, or whatever pedestrian shiat obviously isn't going to show anything that isn't major.

How does this require a discussion or argument? It's farking known by anyone that's pursued a job that secure.


It gets ridiculous sometimes.
 
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