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(Herald Tribune (SW Florida))   Remember those warrantless door to door searches everyone was okay with in Boston because it was a unique circumstance and other police agencies would never try it? Welcome to the new America   (heraldtribune.com) divider line 592
    More: Asinine, Louise Goldsberry, United States Marshals Service, police raid, home invasions  
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25524 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jul 2013 at 6:02 PM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



592 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-20 08:03:21 PM

yet_another_wumpus: Do they really happen (other than SWAT team raids)?


Short answer, yes, there was a rash of home invasion type robberies (mostly targeting seniors) in the 90s when the term was coined. They're not making the news very much these days, but they're still apparently happening from time to time.
 
2013-07-20 08:03:22 PM
But when the people in Goldsberry's apartment didn't open up, that told Wiggins he had probably found the right door. No one at other units had reacted that way, he said.

Exercise of civil rights does not constitute probable cause. Remember that, folks.
 
2013-07-20 08:04:18 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: NeoAnderthal: Busting in without a warrant? Sounds like a cop going rogue and a lawsuit to me.

Really?  Sounds like a bunch of cops exercising their machismo and power-high on a Very Important Mission, and and teaching some insufficiently servile biatch a lesson to me.  Damn, they did everything but gang-rape her to prove their power.

Remember friends - Police are not nice.  Never, ever trust them, and never, ever call them unless you have absolutely no alternative.  They are as likely to shoot you as they are to shoot the bad guy.  They are even somewhat likely to think you ARE the bad guy, if you don't cower in awe before them.


cops have to justify having all the swat team jobs.   If not enough people are robbing banks, they need to just that swat gear elsewhere.   Use it or lose it.. welcome to Govt spending.
 
2013-07-20 08:04:34 PM

Enemabag Jones: The complete unmarked vehicles with civilian plates is used alot during prime time DWI hours to find drunk people.


And also leads to dead civilians who pull over for fake cops because we've been conditioned that Police Officers don't need to identify themselves.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_9430905

Plus, I just saw a murdered out Dodge Durango police vehicle with civilian plates.  It's designed to stand out, not blend in, and it's a waste of quite a bit of taxpayer money.
 
2013-07-20 08:04:57 PM
I find this interesting that this encounter happened after 8PM and there were 30 officers involved, how much overtime is that?

IMHO, I suspect something had to be done or federal overtime reimbursement may have been refused, so you get this.
 
2013-07-20 08:05:02 PM

cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.


But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....
 
2013-07-20 08:05:05 PM

TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

1. Lady sees a guy in a hunting vest pointing a gun at her while she's washing dishes (I'm assuming she saw him through a window as mysterious hunting-vest-dude apparently disappears from the rest of the story, perhaps it was one of the officers)

2. Lady starts screaming (understandably) and crawls across the floor to get her gun

3. There's a banging on the door and someone identifying themselves as a police officer requests entry (which is understandable considering he just heard screaming coming from inside the apartment)

4. After the door doesn't open, the police force it open, again, which is understandable - warrants aren't needed for exigent circumstances, and he just heard a lady screaming and is apparently aware that there's reported fugitive, possibly armed, in the area

5.  Because he's concerned for her safety and there is a possible armed fugitive, he comes in fully armed, and rightfully tells her to put down her weapon.

6.  The boyfriend asks to come out, he's let out, and immediately handcuffed, appropriately, as the police don't know who he is, if this is a domestic dispute, if he's the fugitive, etc, better safe than sorry - restrain him and then figure out what's going on

7.  The lady is screaming things that aren't related to the situation (being an American citizen does not give you the right to hold a gun on a police officer or to disobey their orders in that type of situation) but is finally calmed down by the boyfriend after he sees the other police outside.

8. Lady puts her gun down, the house is searched (there was a confrontation inside the home, screaming coming from it, it seems reasonable to me)

9. The situation is explained to the lady and her boyfriend, and they're let go

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


Sorry but the US marshall didn't say any of that.  What he SAID was that because they didn't immediately open the door, the suspect must be inside.  The marshal violated their rights to privacy and seized them without a warrant.  I see dollar signs in their future.
 
2013-07-20 08:05:23 PM
One troll. One thread. One victory.
i18.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-20 08:06:40 PM
is this the thread where I say fark the police?

/ducks
 
2013-07-20 08:09:10 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: This is why I have claymore anti-personnel mines built into all the external corners and both sides of all the entry doors of my house facing outward. Anybody out there playing cowboy with my constitutional rights ... POP gets it.

/They're also installed in the rear quarter panels and doors of my vehicles.
//Haha, LOL, just kidding. This is fark, right?


I would assume you're kidding. Otherwise the meter readers and random raccoons would be constantly blowing up the sides of your house.
 
2013-07-20 08:09:42 PM

jso2897: One troll. One thread. One victory.


The sad thing is, I'm convinced he's not trolling, just that stuffed up the law's ass.
 
2013-07-20 08:10:16 PM

AngryDragon: cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.

But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....


Slippery slope is not a valid argument unless you can connect the dots.

Why this is so hard for people to grasp I have no idea, but I am sure you could find a dumbed down explanation with a quick googling if you or anyone else is having trouble.
 
2013-07-20 08:10:19 PM
I learned something new today. Apparently, all the police need to do to legally enter a residence is to dress in non-identifiable clothing and aim a weapon at an unsuspecting female. When that female starts screaming you are A-OK to break into the residence.

Wtf? Since when can police site a situation that they caused as sufficient reason to break into a house?
 
2013-07-20 08:11:17 PM

MooseUpNorth: yet_another_wumpus: Do they really happen (other than SWAT team raids)?

Short answer, yes, there was a rash of home invasion type robberies (mostly targeting seniors) in the 90s when the term was coined. They're not making the news very much these days, but they're still apparently happening from time to time.


Seriously?

A quick Google News search for "home invasion" yields 10 stories in the last 24 hours.  Given that it is about the most violent act that can be committed to you at home by perfect strangers, I would consider 10 a day to be a lot more than "from time to time"
 
2013-07-20 08:11:35 PM

Gyrfalcon: HotIgneous Intruder: This is why I have claymore anti-personnel mines built into all the external corners and both sides of all the entry doors of my house facing outward. Anybody out there playing cowboy with my constitutional rights ... POP gets it.

/They're also installed in the rear quarter panels and doors of my vehicles.
//Haha, LOL, just kidding. This is fark, right?

I would assume you're kidding. Otherwise the meter readers and random raccoons would be constantly blowing up the sides of your house.


At least the coon population is next to nil in his location, and garbage cans are safe from their midnight scavenging raids.

/of course I'm talking about the furry rodents.
 
2013-07-20 08:11:36 PM

Smackledorfer: That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.

Lying once again?


I'm guessing you've never had to taint yourself by filling out a job application?

Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.
 
2013-07-20 08:12:18 PM

Gyrfalcon: HotIgneous Intruder: This is why I have claymore anti-personnel mines built into all the external corners and both sides of all the entry doors of my house facing outward. Anybody out there playing cowboy with my constitutional rights ... POP gets it.

/They're also installed in the rear quarter panels and doors of my vehicles.
//Haha, LOL, just kidding. This is fark, right?

I would assume you're kidding. Otherwise the meter readers and random raccoons would be constantly blowing up the sides of your house.


Why would you even need to assume I'm kidding about something like that?
/Oh, this is fark.
Like I said, just kidding.
 
2013-07-20 08:12:26 PM

jso2897: One troll. One thread. One victory.


One troll? You must have a more extensive ignore list than I.
 
2013-07-20 08:14:24 PM

Smackledorfer: AngryDragon: cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.

But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....

Slippery slope is not a valid argument unless you can connect the dots.

Why this is so hard for people to grasp I have no idea, but I am sure you could find a dumbed down explanation with a quick googling if you or anyone else is having trouble.


I think it's fair to say that our government has used many excuses over the years to ratchet up the level of bullshiat people will accept. After all, they successfully got invasive screening at the airport to be welcomed. And I hear in NYC people are OK with cops randomly stopping people and searching them.
 
2013-07-20 08:15:03 PM

Shostie: Pray 4 Mojo: davidphogan: Shostie: Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.

I have nothing against Stewart Copeland.

Really... he's an asshole.

I don't know much about him other than the fact that he's a fantastic drummer.

But he does come off as a bit of a dick.


Incredible drummer. He's one of the reasons I started playing as a kid. Met him... and not as a fan running up in a mall or a staged meet and greet mind you... the dude is one of the biggest assholes I've ever had the displeasure of sharing 5 minutes with. It was disappointing.
 
2013-07-20 08:15:27 PM

AngryDragon: Seriously?


*shrug* They're not hitting my radar very often. I live somewhere sane.
 
2013-07-20 08:15:36 PM

Smackledorfer: jso2897: One troll. One thread. One victory.

One troll? You must have a more extensive ignore list than I.


I'm a troll now?
 
2013-07-20 08:15:43 PM
kill any farker that busts through your door before they kill you
 
2013-07-20 08:16:19 PM

Gyrfalcon: I would assume you're kidding. Otherwise the meter readers and random raccoons would be constantly blowing up the sides of your house.


And anyway, if I did it, they surely would not be set with trip wires, but most certainly hard wired to switches remotely accessible from numerous locations and/or panels in any of the several tunnels .... oops.
 
2013-07-20 08:16:22 PM

MooseUpNorth: AngryDragon: Seriously?

*shrug* They're not hitting my radar very often. I live somewhere sane.


And by sane you mean fairly affluent, upper middle class?
 
2013-07-20 08:17:39 PM

fnordfocus: Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.


Well, it is easier to get a gun that get a job, so there's that.
 
2013-07-20 08:18:33 PM

Smackledorfer: AngryDragon: cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.

But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....

Slippery slope is not a valid argument unless you can connect the dots.

Why this is so hard for people to grasp I have no idea, but I am sure you could find a dumbed down explanation with a quick googling if you or anyone else is having trouble.


Dot One:

farm4.static.flickr.com

Dot Two:

media.utsandiego.com
 
2013-07-20 08:18:36 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: the dude is one of the biggest assholes I've ever had the displeasure of sharing 5 minutes with. It was disappointing.


Well... He IS a drummer...
 
2013-07-20 08:19:06 PM

fnordfocus: Smackledorfer: That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.

Lying once again?

I'm guessing you've never had to taint yourself by filling out a job application?

Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.


Like I said, you are making shiat up. It is hillarious that you feel you have to. It would be easy enough to fill threads with accurate criticism of law enforcement.

Terry stops and contacts with officers are not arrests, and do not show up on criminal history checks. No one gets booked, given fbi numbers, or entered into databases for any background checkers to access or read.
 
2013-07-20 08:19:57 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: Gyrfalcon: I would assume you're kidding. Otherwise the meter readers and random raccoons would be constantly blowing up the sides of your house.

And anyway, if I did it, they surely would not be set with trip wires, but most certainly hard wired to switches remotely accessible from numerous locations and/or panels in any of the several tunnels .... oops.


You're a shoe in to be the cover of Internet Tough Guy Magazine.
 
2013-07-20 08:20:09 PM

Bravo Two: MooseUpNorth: AngryDragon: Seriously?

*shrug* They're not hitting my radar very often. I live somewhere sane.

And by sane you mean fairly affluent, upper middle class?


By sane, I mean 'not the US'.
 
2013-07-20 08:22:03 PM

Shostie: Pray 4 Mojo: the dude is one of the biggest assholes I've ever had the displeasure of sharing 5 minutes with. It was disappointing.

Well... He IS a drummer...


I admit it... I laughed.
 
2013-07-20 08:22:19 PM

MooseUpNorth: Bravo Two: MooseUpNorth: AngryDragon: Seriously?

*shrug* They're not hitting my radar very often. I live somewhere sane.

And by sane you mean fairly affluent, upper middle class?

By sane, I mean 'not the US'.


How do you flick a weasels nose with a car aerial while driving? That's pretty damn impressive.
 
2013-07-20 08:22:30 PM

fnordfocus: Smackledorfer: That's enough to show up in a background check, so you're pretty much farked when it comes to getting a job.

Lying once again?

I'm guessing you've never had to taint yourself by filling out a job application?

Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.


You apparently haven't. They ask you if you've been convicted of a felony. I've also seen them ask if you've been convicted of a crime that was punishable by more than a year in prison, but I'd say 95% of the job application I've filled out only refer to felonies. But to your point, even a detention or contact wouldn't prevent someone from hiring you, and they don't show up on background checks. I know. I've seen the full printout of border background checks and typical job background checks. Only things they've processed you for will show up unless it is some type of drinking ticket. Basically unless you've got the option for a court date, it isn't going to show up.
 
2013-07-20 08:24:33 PM

Sir Cumference the Flatulent: FTFA:Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

That sounds like a threat to me.I have a feeling that if there's a lawsuit, there might be a one-car "accident" or she might get pulled over and a bag of meth or coke is suddenly going to materialize in her car.


It might behoove the lady to activate copious amounts of audio and video surveillance equipment on her person and wherever she should travel.

/ A get a BIG farkin' dog or two or three.
 
2013-07-20 08:25:16 PM

Boojum2k: How do you flick a weasels nose with a car aerial while driving? That's pretty damn impressive.


*lol* I never noticed I'd farked up that clause in my profile. I don't know if I want to fix it or leave it be. ... Er... I mean, very small car.
 
2013-07-20 08:25:29 PM

Smirky the Wonder Chimp: Weaver95: thamike: shanrick: Weaver95:

The idea that more than one person can be involved and that, the larger the organization, the easier it becomes for anyone working for that organization to deny that they have any personal responsibility in what that organization DOES, is completely foreign to them, and I've given up trying to explain it to them.  It only sends them into a frothing rage.


That's OK Smirky, you are among friends here.  Did you see that the TSA has announced it learned of a new underwear bomb technique?  The announcement is part of conditioning the public for the introduction of some new way to look in people's pants at airports, bus stations, etc.  I for one am prepared to stand at attention, so to speak, and drop trou for our TSA overlords.
 
2013-07-20 08:26:12 PM

Gyrfalcon: HotIgneous Intruder: This is why I have claymore anti-personnel mines built into all the external corners and both sides of all the entry doors of my house facing outward. Anybody out there playing cowboy with my constitutional rights ... POP gets it.

/They're also installed in the rear quarter panels and doors of my vehicles.
//Haha, LOL, just kidding. This is fark, right?

I would assume you're kidding. Otherwise the meter readers and random raccoons would be constantly blowing up the sides of your house.


He's either kidding, a very stupid felon, or a very stupid and rich felon.

Claymores are Destructive Devices. He's gonna need a $200 tax stamp on each of them, assuming he can find a licensed maker willing to sell actual Claymores. Without that tax stamp, he's looking at 25+ years per mine, regardless of how they're rigged.

Now, let's assume he's rich enough not to sweat the costs of the dozen or so mines and their tax stamps, and well-connected enough to legally find them for sale. If he isn't storing them in an ATF-approved magazine that they can inspect at any time, then he's in violation of the law again.

So it's pretty safe to assume he's kidding, unless he's absolutely desperate enough to get his first greenlight on Fark that he's willing to be the article.
 
2013-07-20 08:26:32 PM

MooseUpNorth: By sane, I mean 'not the US'.


I would like to subscribe to your country.
 
2013-07-20 08:28:21 PM

Bravo Two: MooseUpNorth: AngryDragon: Seriously?

*shrug* They're not hitting my radar very often. I live somewhere sane.

And by sane you mean fairly affluent, upper middle class?


I live in a fairly affluent, upper middle class area.  Three armed men on a spree chose my house at 5 in the morning as their next target 6 years ago.  I assure you, location is not an insulator.

That incident is also the reason why I would NEVER give up my firearms.  They are the only things that saved my family that night.  I can't believe that the police are stupid enough, with this country armed as it is, to do no-knock warrants.
 
2013-07-20 08:28:44 PM

MooseUpNorth: Boojum2k: How do you flick a weasels nose with a car aerial while driving? That's pretty damn impressive.

*lol* I never noticed I'd farked up that clause in my profile. I don't know if I want to fix it or leave it be. ... Er... I mean, very small car.


Leave it as it is, makes for a good drinking story.
 
2013-07-20 08:28:46 PM
I thank the non-existent deity every day that I live in a city where the cops tend to be watched like hawks and that they're fairly polite. Even busted a few of their own for some pretty heinous shiat. Oh cops have knocked - and when they knock you grab your keys and lock the door behind you. Then go out the door and CLOSE it behind you. You NEVER let a cop in your house, unless they present a warrant.
 
2013-07-20 08:29:03 PM

fnordfocus: I'm guessing you've never had to taint yourself by filling out a job application?

Except for the biggest corporate employers, they all ask if you have an arrest record.  That leaves a civilian like me two choices. Say "no," and the background check shows a "detention" or "contact" with Officers, or say "yes" and they don't even bother with the background check.  In no case, would the rest of my application even get read.


Sorry, but you're wrong.  First, in the USA asking about arrest records is generally not permissible.  Aside from state laws against such questions in job interviews, the EEOC also has made it clear that asking this is a good for an employer to get sued, and lose.

Second, most background checks are actually "criminal record checks"; they don't have access to general police records, only court records (charged, indicted, convicted, etc).  A detention or "contact" without any charges filed doesn't appear in court records.
 
2013-07-20 08:30:07 PM

vudutek: TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

SO, all the cops need to do is laser-sight the occupants to get someone to scream, and warrants are no longer required? And you seem to be ok with this?


sure. as long as its not in his neighborhood, and they limit it to mainly those blah people.
 
2013-07-20 08:30:28 PM

Bravo Two: Smackledorfer: AngryDragon: cig-mkr: You will be reading more articles like this........give someone an inch and they will take a mile. It will become the norm.

But "Slippery Slope" is a fallacy!  Just ask the anti-abortion loons, and the anti-gun nuts, and the Corporate Deregulation lobbyists, and....

Slippery slope is not a valid argument unless you can connect the dots.

Why this is so hard for people to grasp I have no idea, but I am sure you could find a dumbed down explanation with a quick googling if you or anyone else is having trouble.

I think it's fair to say that our government has used many excuses over the years to ratchet up the level of bullshiat people will accept. After all, they successfully got invasive screening at the airport to be welcomed. And I hear in NYC people are OK with cops randomly stopping people and searching them.


I don't know where exactly youae going with this so forgive me if I am inferring something you aren't saying.

I have no reason to think, unless I ignore the effects of increased national news access and everyone carrying cameras around, that police are worse now on average than they were a fifty years ago or fifty more before that.

Incidents are more salient, which is good, but comes with it the responsibility to be more reasonable in our understanding of available statistics. I have reason to think the cops in NYC aren't better behaved now than in the gangs of new york times. I may hate the way some cops treated OWS but let us admit it was much better than some of the things hippies, or blacks, protesting in the past had to endure. And in the country I doubt there were ever any Andy griffiths, but more like a heck of a lot of Walking Talls.

People act like the corruption is new, but I doubt it, and we have the strongest ability to work against that we have ever had.

In the long run, we have even seen multiple expansions of the 4th amendment.
 
2013-07-20 08:32:25 PM

red5ish: Goldsberry wasn't arrested or shot despite pointing a gun at a cop, so Wiggins said, "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

No she shouldn't. She should go to a nice law firm and see if she can sue. If this sort of behavior is costly to the police they will modify their behavior.


they will indeed learn to modify their behavior - they will learn to suicide and one-car accident those people before they can get a court date.
 
2013-07-20 08:32:37 PM

Bravo Two: Smackledorfer: jso2897: One troll. One thread. One victory.

One troll? You must have a more extensive ignore list than I.

I'm a troll now?


I was in no way, shape, or form mentioning you. How did you come to that conclusion?
 
2013-07-20 08:32:47 PM

TuteTibiImperes: Weaver95: TuteTibiImperes: Let me clarify with this too - her screaming was the only reason they had legitimate cause to enter the apartment.

If they'd knocked normally, she'd opened the door unarmed, and refused them entry, any further push to enter the apartment would have been wrong.

so all the cops gotta do is make up some bullshiat about exigent circumstances and you're good with them violating your rights?

I wouldn't be cool with them making something up, no.  In this case however she admitted herself she was screaming her lungs out.  Ideally in the case of an illegal search where the officer stated that he heard something/smelled something that was evidence of a crime there would be some witnesses to back that story up and you would be able to have the search thrown out in court if it came to that.

Even better, we could expect officers of the law to not make shiat up (there will always be some bad apples, but from my experience the majority aren't corrupt).


cor·rupt /kəˈrəpt/ Adjective 1. Having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.

Either you live in the land of unicorn farts and rainbows, or you do not know the definition of corrupt which is why I presented it to you. Corruption can occur both by a corrupt individual or those in support of the corrupt individual by not truthfully reporting said corruption. Don't bother, I have heard all the arguments against what I just said, and my response will always be: man up nancy boy and stand for your principles, or be counted with the corrupt.
 
2013-07-20 08:35:17 PM
Police are largely thugs with a paycheck.  They serve and protect their steroid fueled egos sand when they f*ck the dog, sh*t the bed with absolutely nothing resembling probable cause, or are "forced" to jerk around a few people defending themselves from home invasions, they get time off with pay.  And if you're fine with that, you have my sympathies, but it's the same sort of sympathy you keep for clinically challenged people who are fine with sitting in their own sh*t because "it doesn't smell that bad".
 
2013-07-20 08:35:25 PM
Oh yeah, this marshall gonna get sued. The final comment about not going to the press is admitting he done f'ed up. If he knows he truly did the right thing with his actions that day, he wouldn't care.
 
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