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(Herald Tribune (SW Florida))   Remember those warrantless door to door searches everyone was okay with in Boston because it was a unique circumstance and other police agencies would never try it? Welcome to the new America   (heraldtribune.com) divider line 585
    More: Asinine, Louise Goldsberry, United States Marshals Service, police raid, home invasions  
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25527 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jul 2013 at 6:02 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-20 07:12:00 PM  

nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.

I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.

Thank your for making my point. Maybe you should change your Fark handle to Awl Hammer.


If that's what you want to think, go right ahead.  We have one account of the situation and we don't know the motivations of the officers entering.  I prefer to assume that most law enforcement agents are looking out for the common good and won't violate the law and regulations willingly.  If you want to assume most law enforcement agents as corrupt thugs, obviously that will change your interpretation of the situation.
 
2013-07-20 07:13:03 PM  

ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers?  I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over.  I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.


I suppose you've never had any interaction, even a benign one, with Baltimore PD. Even being within speaking distance of them will change your view of police in general. *shudder*

/friend was assaulted by thugs downtown
//friend tried to press charges
///sargeant ended up shoving him into traffic, acting more thuggish than the people he was assaulted by
 
2013-07-20 07:13:06 PM  
Cops aren't your friends or your enemies, they're just strangers with guns.  How do you treat strangers with guns that you meet?
 
2013-07-20 07:13:06 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.


The article starts with her standing over the sink doing the dishes, to find a laser-sight dancing around her eyes. The Marshal had to have seen her (a) calmly doing her dishes, (b) realize his sight is on her, and (c) make eye contact while she immediately thinks (and probably makes a face implying such) "oh shiat".

Rape would have been the last thing on his mind, and any rational, intelligent person would deduce screams at that point would probably stem from being scared crapless.
 
2013-07-20 07:14:35 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.

I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.


Wow. You suck cop dick so hard you may just invert him. Bravo.

I thought you were just a troll after the Detroit thread, but...Jesus, just how dumb -are- you?
 
2013-07-20 07:15:57 PM  
Officer Wiggins will make a fine police chief.
 
2013-07-20 07:16:07 PM  

Bravo Two: Jesus, just how dumb -are- you?


Either a troll account or really farking dumb. Hard to say. Poe's Law in action.
 
2013-07-20 07:16:46 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.

I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.

Thank your for making my point. Maybe you should change your Fark handle to Awl Hammer.

If that's what you want to think, go right ahead.  We have one account of the situation and we don't know the motivations of the officers entering.  I prefer to assume that most law enforcement agents are looking out for the common good and won't violate the law and regulations willingly.  If you want to assume most law enforcement agents as corrupt thugs, obviously that will change your i ...


The cops were the ones who pointed the farking gun at her and made her scream genius. The guy they were chasing was never suspected of being armed and was found and arrested unarmed. He also wasn't dressed up in a hunter's outfit.
 
2013-07-20 07:16:50 PM  
Dead cop = Good cop?
 
2013-07-20 07:18:00 PM  

DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: Dead cop = Good cop?


i get it Trunkin Donuts

www.bubblews.com
 
2013-07-20 07:18:57 PM  
After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:

901.19Right of officer to break into building.-

(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be.
 They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.

I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.
 
2013-07-20 07:19:06 PM  

lack of warmth: Officer Wiggins will make a fine police chief.


Bake him away, toys!
 
2013-07-20 07:19:38 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: TuteTibiImperes: nmemkha: Apologist TuteTibiImperes commenting on a rape, "She was dressed like a whore."

Umm, no, but you're saying that the police could walk by an apartment, hear a woman screaming because she was being raped, and not have the right to break down the door to save her because the rapist sure isn't letting them in and she's tied to the bed.

Well most reasonable people agree this incident was concerning, but you always have those few Gestapo loving tools who are willing to assume give thug-LEOs a pass unless it them who is drawing their unwarranted attention.

I'm thinking most people didn't RTFA.  It comes down to one key point for me - was the entry prompted because there was screaming inside, or because no one answered the door?  The woman admits screaming out for an extended period of time after seeing the man outside the window, but the Marshall says that the reason he moved in was because no one answered.  Now, it could be that the screaming combined with no answer was why he was concerned, we don't know.

Forcing entry because of a fear that someone inside is in peril is legitimate, and everything after was legitimate based on her pointing a gun at the officer (perhaps not the search at the very end, I'm confused about why they needed that after they found out who the people were).

Forcing entry because you want to go in, but have no warrant, and have no reason to think someone is in danger inside would not be in any way legitimate.

Thank your for making my point. Maybe you should change your Fark handle to Awl Hammer.

If that's what you want to think, go right ahead.  We have one account of the situation and we don't know the motivations of the officers entering.  I prefer to assume that most law enforcement agents are looking out for the common good and won't violate the law and regulations willingly.  If you want to assume most law enforcement agents as corrupt thugs, obviously that will change your interpretation of the situation.


Don't read the news much?

House to house searches in Boston. Two Asian ladies shot up by cops in LA looking for a big black guy. A marine killed in his own home because he heard gunshots and armed himself only to be gunned down by the cops raiding his house by mistake who didn't announce themselves. And those are the major ones.

Cops are not there to ensure the common good. They are there to force compliance through force and intimidation of some arbitrary government policies.

Now, kindly go back to sucking that cop dick in silence while Uncle Sam farks you up the ass.

/the more this shiat happens, the more Waco and ruby ridge smell.
 
2013-07-20 07:20:14 PM  
There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.
 
2013-07-20 07:20:33 PM  

Rincewind53: Aaannnnnnd, that's a federal lawsuit won right there. The law is pretty crystal clear in this particular area.


People who sue Law Enforcement tend end up dead.  FTFA: "She sure shouldn't be going to the press."

Coming from a U.S. Marshall, that's a significant threat.  And Marshall Wiggins knows he's so far above the law, he doesn't mind making it on the record.

Never mind the fact, that even without a lawsuit or going to the press, this is two more people with an arrest record who are now unemployable, ineligible for welfare benefits, etc.
 
2013-07-20 07:21:23 PM  

Boojum2k: Bravo Two: Jesus, just how dumb -are- you?

Either a troll account or really farking dumb. Hard to say. Poe's Law in action.


Hey, I was right about Detroit, and at least I can make a logical argument here.  If you want to result to ad hominem attacks, go for it, but my arguments are well grounded here.
 
2013-07-20 07:22:30 PM  

MurphyMurphy: ManateeGag: what shiatty interactions have you had with police officers? I've never, not ever once, had a horrible interaction with a police officer where I thought I was going to get shot or he was going to fark me over. I've felt like an idiot for getting a ticket a few times, but none of them have ever been outright assholes to me.

Let's play pictionary

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 252x147][www.dntdesigns.co.uk image 225x183]


Up Town Girl?
 
2013-07-20 07:22:31 PM  
It took some searching, but here's more info on the guy they were searching for.

Apparently a 14 year old girl was raped by relatives over the last few years. On person, Joshua Riley, was arrested back on July 5th.

Sarasota man charged with child molestation starting when victim was infant

Another relative, Kyle Riley, was also charged, and this was the guy they were looking for when the incident in TFA happened.

2nd family member charged in Sarasota incest case

Kyle Riley, wanted on sexual battery charges, has been arrested

And you can add witness tampering to the list of charges.

Witness tampering charge, 2nd arrest in incest case

None of this, however, excuses a home invasion by police. Especially in light of the fact that there was nothing to suggest Kyle was dangerous unless you were a 14 year old girl.
 
2013-07-20 07:22:38 PM  

Gyrfalcon: No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.


Eliminate the war on drugs, and it's a deal. Criminals with illegal weapons, most stolen good, etc., aren't going to be able to flush those down a toilet.
 
2013-07-20 07:22:41 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: vudutek: TuteTibiImperes: If I'm understanding the timeline of this correctly:

I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a bit gruff in his language, but he identified himself as a police officer and the couple delayed allowing him entry, and then the lady refused to lower her weapon.  She's frankly lucky that she didn't get shot.

SO, all the cops need to do is laser-sight the occupants to get someone to scream, and warrants are no longer required? And you seem to be ok with this?

The courts have long held that warrantless searches are legal if there are exigent circumstances, such as the officer's belief that someone is in mortal danger.

The officer at the door did not likely know that the woman was screaming because she possibly saw another officer through the window.  To his knowledge he was in an area where there was a reported fugitive, and there was a woman screaming in terror inside of her apartment.  It was his duty to protect the public safety to enter that apartment to make sure she wasn't being murdered, raped, etc.

Everything that came afterward seems to be SOP because there was a gun pointed at the officer and someone else in the apartment who (as far as the officer knew) may have been responsible for why she was screaming.


here's the problem. the cop never said he heard her scream and used that as an excuse to kick the door in. he said it was because they didn't open up immediately.
 
2013-07-20 07:23:43 PM  

Gyrfalcon: There's a very easy way to prevent this ever happening again:

Disallow no-knock warrants.

No-knock warrants were originally allowed because cops, prosecutors and other law&order types were afraid that the knock-and-announce requirements would give evil drug dealers and other thugs a chance to destroy evidence, flee out the back, etc. So judges started signing off on no-knock warrants because of the dangers that when the door was finally answered, there would be no evidence to find.

Well, so be it. No more no-knock warrants, and if the evidence is gone by the time the crooks answer the door, then that's going to be the price of doing business. Is that how people want to proceed? Because it's an easy fix if you want it.



It's a fix but there would be nothing easy about implementing it.  The government is very, very hesitant to relinquish controls once given.
 
2013-07-20 07:24:27 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:

901.19Right of officer to break into building.-

(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be. They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.

I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.


Wow are you really that bad at reading. He *has* to announce his purpose.

"Open up ma'am. We're the police and we're searching the premise for wanted felon on the run."

They might even show the warrant.

Instead she got cops creeping around, point guns at her, telling her they "were the farking police", and several other alarming and boot stompy thing.
 
2013-07-20 07:24:28 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I was right about Detroit


I didn't see what you had to say about Detroit.  Okay, you are using some logical arguments here, overly favorable to the police when there's dispute on interpretation, but fair enough. You are massively wrong elsewhere about the 2nd amendment but that's probably your personal bias speaking.

Fine. Carry on.
 
2013-07-20 07:25:35 PM  

redmid17: TuteTibiImperes: After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:

901.19Right of officer to break into building.-

(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be. They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.

I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.

Wow are you really that bad at reading. He *has* to announce his purpose.

"Open up ma'am. We're the police and we're searching the premise for wanted felon on the run."

They might even show the warrant.

Instead she got cops creeping around, point guns at her, telling her they "were the farking police", and several other alarming and boot stompy thing.


Which armed criminals would never do of course.
 
2013-07-20 07:25:40 PM  

Bmorrison: Shostie: Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.

and what about Stewart Copeland?


He's an asshole.
 
2013-07-20 07:25:44 PM  
TuteTibiImperes
After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:
901.19Right of officer to break into building.-
(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be.
 They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.
I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.



This sounds like a cop version of 'I smell a gas leak'. 

Lets see what is decided after a lawsuit, since the officer jumped to a conclusion, not reasonably believed.
 
2013-07-20 07:26:56 PM  
fnordfocus:

Never mind the fact, that even without a lawsuit or going to the press, this is two more people with an arrest record who are now unemployable, ineligible for welfare benefits, etc.

The article states that she was never arrested, and while it doesn't explicitly state that he wasn't, it say that they just handcuffed him for half an hour while they searched then released him, I'm assume that he was just detained as well and not arrested.
 
2013-07-20 07:28:04 PM  
it's just like Baghdad in 2003
 
2013-07-20 07:28:27 PM  

you are a puppet: Just saying, if someone started killing all the police involved in these raids it would be really cool, especially if you released little videos after each kill like Mandarin in Iron man 3, or maybe you could give a big speech like Bane (in Banes voice). Maybe I'm just excited with Comicon going on, it's got me in a mood.


DHS, NSA take note.  There's another group you can add to your list of potential terrorist - people who read comic books.
 
2013-07-20 07:28:28 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Boojum2k: Bravo Two: Jesus, just how dumb -are- you?

Either a troll account or really farking dumb. Hard to say. Poe's Law in action.

Hey, I was right about Detroit, and at least I can make a logical argument here.  If you want to result to ad hominem attacks, go for it, but my arguments are well grounded here.


Your arguments about Detroit were absurd nonsense that suggested tax payers be on the hook for billions in bad decisions.

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

Tell me, how do you even say that with a straight face? Do you tell rape victims they deserved it because they showed too much ankle? Do you also advocate the state abusing power to punish people arbitrarily?

You, sir, are either a troll, a moron, or have a serious fetish for government control. You do realize that being the lackey of the fascists buys you nothing once they have no more need of you?
 
2013-07-20 07:29:07 PM  
The cops hate your guts and want you to die.  Remember that every time you have to interact with one of these moronic power mad thugs.
 
2013-07-20 07:29:11 PM  
I'm a total jerk and haven't read the thread but I opportune this brief moment to channel Neil Young's and then explode in a cataclysm of despair, wniskey, and unnecessary Onario rock.  And my dying puddle says rock on to to the benevolent hearing
 
2013-07-20 07:29:23 PM  

Shostie: Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.


I have nothing against Stewart Copeland.
 
2013-07-20 07:29:24 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: I don't see a police over-reach in this.  If an officer was driving past my house and heard loud screaming in terror I'd want him to come in as I very well could be in mortal danger.  Perhaps the guy was a b ...


There's a farkload of overreach.

First, the Heroic Officers are too farking cool to wear badges or uniforms, and yet us civilian sheep are still supposed to know they are Officers and not just random criminals pointing guns at us.

Also, the Marshall involved pretty much threatened her in retaliation for going to the media.
 
2013-07-20 07:30:05 PM  
The cop heard a scream and that is the excuse to go in?  At that point, you have a hostage situation. (He is SURE there is an armed child rapist is inside)  Is this how a hostage situation should be handled?
 
2013-07-20 07:31:09 PM  
If I'm ever whitemanrich, I'm getting ---

Panic Room - immediate safety  - lots of plate steel leading to...

Concealed Exit - exit without being seen/stopped.  Drainage pipe, concrete tunnel, something that gets me away from the house.

Automated Sentry Gun - Anything from pepper spray to skunk extract to blue dye-pack dye.  With small plaque outside of home "This home is protected by automated defenses.  You have been warned."
 
2013-07-20 07:31:14 PM  
Police have been doing this for a while now, it's been the case for a long time that if they hear screaming and they think a person is in 'imminent danger' they will break into a house, and pretty much do whatever else they want.

Cool story sis: years ago some cops got a call from someone in the area of my neighborhood saying they heard a woman screaming. They went door to door, and at the time I was upstairs taking a shower and I had left the downstairs door unlocked. I live in the country, so this is normal. Anyway, the police let themselves into the house. The downstairs lights were out so they had their flashlights on. I heard the noises and strange male voices and thought my house was being broken into. I got out of the shower with my hair still full of soap, armed myself with a pair of scissors and went looking for a phone- or possibly to climb out of a window and get on to the roof. Anyway, I paused to listen to them and figured out they were police, put away the scissors and came down to talk to them (in my towel still), but it was still pretty freaky.

I'm also pretty sure what the person heard was actually this bird called a Night Heron which would hang out in the creek sometimes and made noises like a woman being murdered. This particular bird had a really murder-y sounding cry it made.
 
2013-07-20 07:31:18 PM  

maddan: The cop heard a scream and that is the excuse to go in?  At that point, you have a hostage situation. (He is SURE there is an armed child rapist is inside)  Is this how a hostage situation should be handled?


the cop never said he heard a scream. he said they went in because they wouldn't open the door immediately.
 
2013-07-20 07:31:37 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: After actually doing a little research, it looks like entry was justified no matter what.  The relevant FL statute:

901.19Right of officer to break into building.-

(1)If a peace officer fails to gain admittance after she or he has announced her or his authority and purpose in order to make an arrest either by a warrant or when authorized to make an arrest for a felony without a warrant, the officer may use all necessary and reasonable force to enter any building or property where the person to be arrested is or is reasonably believed to be. They believed the suspect was in the building, and it was a felony arrest, so they had reason to enter.  It does sound like the officer should have informed them of why he was entering before he did however.

I can't say I'm entirely comfortable with that idea, as I'd like to think they'd need to have a warrant or a legitimate fear that someone's safety was at stake to enter, but it appears to be legal.


No warrant. No reasonable expectation that the fugitive was in that apartment. No legal entry.

/Not to mention... No "announced his authority and purpose"
 
2013-07-20 07:32:17 PM  

joeshill: If I'm ever whitemanrich, I'm getting ---

Panic Room - immediate safety  - lots of plate steel leading to...

Concealed Exit - exit without being seen/stopped.  Drainage pipe, concrete tunnel, something that gets me away from the house.

Automated Sentry Gun - Anything from pepper spray to skunk extract to blue dye-pack dye.  With small plaque outside of home "This home is protected by automated defenses.  You have been warned."


word
 
2013-07-20 07:32:37 PM  
Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.
 
2013-07-20 07:33:50 PM  
Quick question about "home invasions".

I don't think I ever heard the term before the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping, now it is on local news like a talking point (of course, it is). Do they really happen (other than SWAT team raids)? Of course, the range of criminal minds tend from dumb to dumber (the smarter and better camaflaged ones tend to rewrite their crimes into laws) so it is indeed possible that they would do it, instead of taking their time ransacking an empty place.

Question for fark: should there be a public service message:
Armed Intruders? Don't worry, their your friends the police! All this derp about "home invasions" is just derp, they really only occur [insert rectally derived percentage here] of all armed assaults on homes. The rest are merely police protecting you, especially from you dog of peace.

/realistic?
 
2013-07-20 07:34:06 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: Yup.... and after a few more of these, a group of criminals will kelvar up, raid a place as "police", and they're be able to get in and out without incident, until the local police find out, "hey! that wasn't OUR raid!"


It's been done.  In one case, the dispatcher actually ordered a victim to open the door because the perps identified the were "FBI."  Then, they killed her.

And cases like this, where Officers don't think badges and uniforms make them look badass enough, only make it easier.  Where I live only a minority of Police wear clearly identifiable uniforms, and they're trending towards unmarked vehicles with civilian plates.
 
2013-07-20 07:34:41 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.


the cop never said he heard her scream he said they went in because they didn't open the door right away
 
2013-07-20 07:34:53 PM  

davidphogan: Shostie: Listen, people. All I'm saying is that Reggatta de Blanc is a damn fine album.

And yeah, the Police aren't your friends, but I think that's just Sting and his ego. Andy Summers seems like a nice enough guy.

I have nothing against Stewart Copeland.


Really... he's an asshole.
 
2013-07-20 07:36:01 PM  
Citizens should learn how to comply and there won't be any problem!
 
2013-07-20 07:37:23 PM  
Guess you could say these guys weren't....

Justified.

YEEEEAAAH

/only read half the thread, apologies if someone already brought this up
//Raylan would have shot her for sure
 
2013-07-20 07:37:35 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Bravo Two:

Your argument here is, boiled down, the biatch shouldn't complain because its for her own good.

My argument here is that if the officer heard screaming from inside the apartment he had a legitimate right and duty to investigate the source of that screaming in case the woman inside was in peril.  Entering for that purpose would be entirely legally and morally justified.  The fact that the screaming was because of another office on the other side of the apartment with a gun is irrelevant if the officer who entered did not know that.

If he entered because he believed the subject was in there, but did not have a warrant to enter the premises, he seems to be legally justified according to the FL statute, but morally I see more problems there.


Out of curiousity... how do you feel about the search of the apartment after the two inhabitants were outside and handcuffed? (assuming they were not given permission by the lady... which I sincerely doubt they even asked for).
 
2013-07-20 07:37:55 PM  
I'm going to opine that this is a "not the whole story case" and everyone involved is stupid, lying somewhat, but not wholly unjustified.

Also, the police might want to think about setting up a perimeter while they wait ten minutes for a warrant in these situations, even if it's a bit more expensive.  Think of it as an investment in public relations.
 
2013-07-20 07:38:07 PM  
The actual words, the couple say, were, "We're the f------ police; open the f------ door."

That's the point at which I'd have opened fire through the wall.
 
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