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(Hot Air)   Another study shows that the link between fracking and ground water contamination is a myth. Thankfully the Party of Science(tm) has conceded to reality and will stop opposing it, right?   (hotair.com) divider line 125
    More: Unlikely, groundwater, drilling fluids, Western Pennsylvania, shocker, eco, methane, aquifers  
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2505 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Jul 2013 at 2:55 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-20 11:31:58 AM  
http://hotair.com/about/

Oh yeah. Definitely sounds like a reputable group of people who most assuredly have their heads firmly in reality.
 
2013-07-20 11:34:52 AM  
If fracking is so harmless, then why are they not required to disclose what they're pumping down there?  And why are they exempt from the Clean Water act?

One has to assume the worst.
 
2013-07-20 11:42:56 AM  
So, how do you explain Pavilion, WY? Still going to go with "EPA contaminated the site" bullshiat? What caused the contamination if it wasn't fracking?

If the chemical coctails used by the drilling industry aren't all that bad, why do they fight tooth and nail to keep them secret?
 
2013-07-20 11:47:33 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: If fracking is so harmless, then why are they not required to disclose what they're pumping down there?


Because "trade secret."

Marcus Aurelius: And why are they exempt from the Clean Water act?


Because $$$$$$$ HOLLAAAAAAAAAAA!
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-07-20 11:52:20 AM  
Yes, Hot Air is reality and your flammable well water is just a hallucination.

That's some real trolling there.
 
2013-07-20 12:01:37 PM  

vpb: Yes, Hot Air is reality and your flammable well water is just a hallucination.

That's some real trolling there.


Well, the point was that it was happening before the fracking. Though to me all that says is that it can be quite delicate, so fracking will likely cause more cases of it happening.
 
2013-07-20 12:03:55 PM  

dr_blasto: So, how do you explain Pavilion, WY?


What's to explain?
 
2013-07-20 12:07:51 PM  
images.persephonemagazine.com

IT'S IN THE FRACKING WATER!

 
2013-07-20 12:08:03 PM  
Too many people and groups want energy independence. Fracking will continue and we'll just see what that leads to 10-20 years from now.

Personally, I'm not a fan. But, I highly doubt the process will be stopped successfully with the number of jobs and the royalties/taxes and local spending they promise communities and states.
 
2013-07-20 12:09:31 PM  
Is that why a number of communities in Alberta have ground water you can burn?
 
2013-07-20 12:10:36 PM  

Slaxl: Well, the point was that it was happening before the fracking


That's not relevant.
 
2013-07-20 12:16:18 PM  

AgentKGB: Is that why a number of communities in Alberta have ground water you can burn?


A few in colorado too.  Not at all disconcerting to have a toxic, flammable gas come up through your plumbing.
 
2013-07-20 12:18:33 PM  
Man whoever wrote that thing sounds like a massive douchebag.
 
2013-07-20 12:32:27 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Too many people and groups want energy independence. Fracking will continue and we'll just see what that leads to 10-20 years from now.

Personally, I'm not a fan. But, I highly doubt the process will be stopped successfully with the number of jobs and the royalties/taxes and local spending they promise communities and states.


the thing is... Domestic oil extraction won't lead to energy independence unless the oil industry is nationalized, which will never happen.
 
2013-07-20 12:33:36 PM  
From the lab that did the report:


NETL Statement on Reported Fracking Study
July 19,2013, 12:15 p.m.

NETL has been conducting a study to monitor for any signs of groundwater contamination as a result of hydraulic fracturing operations at a site on the Marcellus Shale formation in Pennsylvania. We are still in the early stages of collecting, analyzing, andvalidating data from this site. While nothing of concern has been found thus far, the results are far too preliminary to make any firm claims. We expect a final report on the results by the end of the calendar year.

Contact:Shelley Martin, DOE National Energy Technology Laboratory, 304-285-0228,n­ews­info­[nospam-﹫-backwards]lt­en­*doe*gov

http://www.netl.doe.gov/publications/press/2013/StudyStatement.pdf

But, yeah, let's make firm conclusions without the benefit of the full report.
 
2013-07-20 12:38:02 PM  

Target Builder: the thing is... Domestic oil extraction won't lead to energy independence unless the oil industry is nationalized, which will never happen.


I think there's a direct connection to the fracking done in Canada and the US which is leading to reduced "foreign" (Middle East) purchases. It's pretty obvious we fought two major wars to secure a stable supply of oil from that sh*thole region.

It won't lead to energy independence, but it will reduce our reliance on oil that costs more in blood and treasure.

Like I said, not a fan of the process, but the economic and geopolitical results are too popular to fight against.

I'm assuming that in 20 years we'll be lamenting why we did this, but that's not important right now. Drill baby drill!
 
2013-07-20 12:43:40 PM  
Also, helps cause earthquakes.

www.sciencemag.org%2Fcontent%2F341%2F6142%2F164.full&h=zAQFuiMiO&s=1
 
2013-07-20 12:52:59 PM  

Target Builder: unless the oil industry is nationalized, which will never happen.


Thank Buddha, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Siva, trees, mushrooms, and Isadora Duncan.

Blues_X: Also, helps cause earthquakes.


Lockjaw and night vision too!
 
2013-07-20 12:55:22 PM  
You'll notice, though, our surface lakes do not burn.  Unless they're tailings ponds created by the drilling industry with post-processing water, which are not used for drinking water, have scarecrows and air cannons to keep wildlife away from them, and are used only to recycle back into oil processing.  The Athabascan oil sands are not like Texas oil reserves - the oil is in the sand between the water table and the surface.  If you try to dig a well, the water will have to come through the oil sands layer, and then it's contaminated.  Which is why we get water from rivers and natural lakes here.

Kreist, people are so goddamn ready to knee-jerk over whatever someone sciencey tells them.
 
2013-07-20 12:56:10 PM  

AgentKGB: Is that why a number of communities in Alberta have ground water you can burn?


Above comment was in response to this, by the way.
 
2013-07-20 01:03:51 PM  

AgentKGB: Is that why a number of communities in Alberta have ground water you can burn?


That's just Canada. Things are weird up there. They even put gravy on their French fires.
 
2013-07-20 01:24:22 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Target Builder: unless the oil industry is nationalized, which will never happen.

Thank Buddha, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Siva, trees, mushrooms, and Isadora Duncan.

Blues_X: Also, helps cause earthquakes.

Lockjaw and night vision too!



wat.
 
2013-07-20 01:24:32 PM  

Ambivalence: AgentKGB: Is that why a number of communities in Alberta have ground water you can burn?

A few in colorado too.  Not at all disconcerting to have a toxic, flammable gas come up through your plumbing.


It always happens after a night of drinking and a trip to Taco bell.
 
2013-07-20 01:25:14 PM  
 
2013-07-20 01:27:34 PM  
Does our energy needs satisfy the risks of fracking?


/Its HotAir so I know its full of shiat.
 
2013-07-20 01:34:51 PM  
 
2013-07-20 01:36:49 PM  
But even the zealous and well-funded bureaucrats at Environmental Protection Agency have so far failed to find that much-desired connection.

Ok, that sentence pushed the article well into joke territory.
 
2013-07-20 01:39:22 PM  
Well, at least this derp blog has an honest name, unlike "American Thinker" or "NewsBusters".
 
2013-07-20 01:42:45 PM  

Blues_X: wat.


AND as I understand babies are being born naked in the Eagle Ford region! NAKED BABIES! This is an outrage!
 
2013-07-20 01:45:16 PM  

jake_lex: Well, at least this derp blog has an honest name, unlike "American Thinker" or "NewsBusters".


It's the most honest name for a site the internet has ever seen.  They're farts in text form.
 
2013-07-20 02:01:19 PM  
It's a shame that science has been infected by politics on both sides of the aisle.  I have no opinion on this particular issue because I quite frankly haven't researched it enough.
 
2013-07-20 02:10:07 PM  

Ambivalence: AgentKGB: Is that why a number of communities in Alberta have ground water you can burn?

A few in colorado too.  Not at all disconcerting to have a toxic, flammable gas come up through your plumbing.


Free gas?  Sounds like a win-win to me.
 
2013-07-20 02:13:05 PM  

NeedlesslyCanadian: http://hotair.com/about/

Oh yeah. Definitely sounds like a reputable group of people who most assuredly have their heads firmly in reality.


Is it your belief that Hot Air did the scientific study? Perhaps you ought to read a bit more.
 
2013-07-20 02:22:06 PM  

rumpelstiltskin: AgentKGB: Is that why a number of communities in Alberta have ground water you can burn?

That's just Canada. Things are weird up there. They even put gravy on their French fires.


And they like ketchup flavored potato chips and coffee flavored Kit Kat bars. It's like it's a whole different country up there!
 
2013-07-20 03:08:20 PM  
Lotta myths be getting dispelled today, yo
 
2013-07-20 03:11:01 PM  
I haven't made up my mind on this issue.  Can someone point me towards websites that cite empirical, scientifically-valid evidence without the leftist irrational fear-mongering and the greedy corporatist denialism?  My Google-fu keeps leading me to political hyperbole bullshiat.

Thanks!
 
2013-07-20 03:11:49 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: dr_blasto: So, how do you explain Pavilion, WY?

What's to explain?


Where did all the benzine in their wells come from? It certainly couldn't be bad behavior from Encanta illegally disposing waste or from the fracking chemicals pumped into the ground. When the Uranium mine in Wind River was opened, the tailings weren't a hazard to the people of the area, they certainly wouldn't cause any increased risk of cancer would it? The fine people at Susquehana-Western would never just let shiat sit out and contaminate drinking water.

Of course, we needed Uranium back then, it was the cold war. We needed the yellow cake to arm our nation against the commies, right?

Snark aside, we've made lots of short-sighted decisions in this country regarding the extraction industry. We still allow unknown chemical compounds to be pumped into the ground, albeit lower than the wells, but without the legitimate efforts to protect the property of the people sitting on top of that shiat. So long as someone gets their CNG, it's all good, right? Damn the potential disasters, it is more important to allow markets to resolve it. Look at the penalties and efforts Susquehanna-Western endured for the uranium tailings - oh, wait, our tax dollars are cleaning up that mess.
 
2013-07-20 03:19:04 PM  

Mrbogey: NeedlesslyCanadian: http://hotair.com/about/

Oh yeah. Definitely sounds like a reputable group of people who most assuredly have their heads firmly in reality.

Is it your belief that Hot Air did the scientific study? Perhaps you ought to read a bit more.


Which is why they simply linked to the study, without any interpretation or waterheaded blogspeak. Right?

Oh wait. They took a study that's still not finished and extrapolated it to mean that fracking is 100% safe, because surely monitoring efforts will know how to detect the presence of proprietary, unknown chemical compounds. Also if something hasn't leached out into surrounding aquifers in a year, then it's staying there forever, no matter what.

They also assumed that "the fracking fluid stays right here forever" in one particular place, at one particular depth, holds true across all hydrogeology and fracking depths. And they also ignored entirely the operations where they don't leave the fluid in the ground, and instead pump it back up and discharge it to a creek or some shiat.

So yes, you're right. Hot Air is totally factual, and we should take what they're saying at face value. I'm happy you took the oil industry dick out of your mouth long enough to inform us of that.
 
2013-07-20 03:21:20 PM  
Good idea. Lets rape the environment to extend the age of the combustion engine for another few decades. Under no circumstances should we wait and see what the long term consequences of fracking are.
 
2013-07-20 03:22:08 PM  

Blues_X: Dancin_In_Anson: Target Builder: unless the oil industry is nationalized, which will never happen.

Thank Buddha, Allah, Brahma, Vishnu, Siva, trees, mushrooms, and Isadora Duncan.

Blues_X: Also, helps cause earthquakes.

Lockjaw and night vision too!


wat.


static.comicvine.com
Yeah ,his name is Black Bolt, not Night Vision.
 
2013-07-20 03:28:43 PM  
Wait.  People are treating Hot Air as a legitimate source of information?!?

Wow.
 
2013-07-20 03:30:50 PM  

Shostie: Marcus Aurelius: If fracking is so harmless, then why are they not required to disclose what they're pumping down there?

Because "trade secret."

Marcus Aurelius: And why are they exempt from the Clean Water act?

Because $$$$$$$ HOLLAAAAAAAAAAA!


And my work here is done.

Azlefty: Fracking does not affect ground water just ask  the folks on the  wind River Reservation

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/article/wyoming-groundwate r- again-tests-positive-for-fracking-related-chemicals-on-wind-river-rese rvation-136259


ACTUALLY
This is really the point. The study talked about tracking tracer chemical(s) that were added.
Did the study track the fraking chemicals? ALL of them? And if not, the study is close to worthless.
 
2013-07-20 03:32:10 PM  
Definitively claiming fracking is harmless when the study is in the beginning stages of data collection is equivalent to watching a lit match sit on top of a pile of dry wood/paper for one second and determining there is no fire risk.

Also, I am continually amazed at the people who valiantly push for increased drilling, fracking, pipelines as though the oil companies are going to happily keep the oil here. These seem to be the same pro-business people crying about government intervention.
 
2013-07-20 03:32:46 PM  
vpb
(favorite: Blamed "right wing conspiracy " for Family Research Council shooting after shooter was id'd as left wing gay activist)


Yes, Hot Air is reality and your flammable well water is just a hallucination.

That's some real trolling there.

Oh look, you lying about the facts again.

So why was it happening before fracking? Did Bush go into the past ?
 
2013-07-20 03:33:00 PM  

IntertubeUser: I haven't made up my mind on this issue.  Can someone point me towards websites that cite empirical, scientifically-valid evidence without the leftist irrational fear-mongering and the greedy corporatist denialism?  My Google-fu keeps leading me to political hyperbole bullshiat.

Thanks!


That's all that there is.
Unless you know what is being pumped into the ground during fraking, how would you know what might be leaking out?
Unless you have extensive ground and air testing before, during drilling, and after during the extraction phase; how can you compare before and after data?

Farking Cheney Loophole.
 
2013-07-20 03:35:38 PM  

dr_blasto: So, how do you explain Pavilion, WY?


isolated incident.  overzealous staffer.
 
2013-07-20 03:36:17 PM  

IntertubeUser: I haven't made up my mind on this issue.  Can someone point me towards websites that cite empirical, scientifically-valid evidence without the leftist irrational fear-mongering and the greedy corporatist denialism?  My Google-fu keeps leading me to political hyperbole bullshiat.

Thanks!


What the EPA/WDEQ intend to study (PDF warning) in the Pavillion, WY (Encanta field). They ran a study earlier, but it was assaulted by FUD. EPA, in their all their liberal, uber-powerful, business-destroying power, decided that they would take the complaints about methodology and re-test to maintain fairness.

What's known: the process of "fracking" or hydraulic fracturing to release deeper, harder to access gas uses many chemicals which are pumped into the gas field under high pressure to break up the supporting rock. These chemicals are claimed to be trade secrets by the extraction industry and, even though a person may have a well on their property directly over a gas field, they typically do not have or own the mineral rights. Extractors can come in and drill under their land and are not obligated to compensate property owners. They also refuse to indicate the chemical compounds used.

Some studies have indicated that areas with a lot of this activity tend to see an increase, sometimes significant, in toxic chemicals in their well water.

What's unknown: due to limited testing, lack of regulation for pre-drilling testing, the exact increase in chemicals. What chemicals are used and whether wells consistently maintain hydraulic isolation during the extraction process. Also unknown is if different types of geology lend themselves better to safe fracking vs other formations where pumping to the surface, through wells or to surface water is more likely.

They are unknown as testing, sampling, requiring compound reporting are all heavily resisted by the extraction industry and they have a much more powerful lobby in the state and federal government than you or I do. In some areas, they've found methods to force people to allow drilling.
 
2013-07-20 03:36:39 PM  

dr_blasto: Where did all the benzine in their wells come from?


Where did the EPA go?
 
2013-07-20 03:40:53 PM  
Also, note that study after study produced by the industry indicates there's zero harm that could come from their practices. Those studies clearly show that self-regulation works and, in fact, that the process of fracking actually makes puppies happier and kittens cuter.
 
2013-07-20 03:42:58 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: dr_blasto: Where did all the benzine in their wells come from?

Where did the EPA go?


They simply met a ton of resistance from the Encanta corp-the company said the EPA contaminated the test wells when they did the tests, so the EPA backed off and declared a do-over. The do-over is in public commenting stage, will be managed by WDEQ (state) and assisted by EPA.
 
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