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(Boston Herald)   Massachusetts officials put on their frowns and confess they'll have to raise taxes again to pay for the Big Dig again   (bostonherald.com) divider line 64
    More: Obvious, Big Dig, Massachusetts, O'Neill, Federal Highway Administration  
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7014 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jul 2013 at 3:39 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-20 08:34:06 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: You know how I can tell you don't know anything about large scale construction?

Pro tip: See bolded parts above.


I'm not gibbon and don't work large scale construction and fully admit I don't really have the vaguest idea.  I'm going to call your post ignorant unless you pony up more information.  Because I'm curious.
 
2013-07-20 09:05:48 PM

Marine1: SN1987a goes boom: DubyaHater: Taxpayers should demand a refund for this substandard work. If I buy something, and it's defective, I return it.
Or the city of Boston and the state of Massachusetts should be forced to find the money elsewhere. No reason to burden taxpayers further with this failed project and its large price tag. When the A/C in my home dies, I don't ask my neighbors for money. I have to pull money from elsewhere in order to pay for it.

I'll bet you think we should also balance our national debt like you do your checkbook.

/Macro and Microeconomics are not comparable so stop it.

It'd be interesting, for one year or a few, to have a balance sheet for every American. What you pay in taxes v. what you consume in government services. Do it for corporations as well. Whether anything is made of it is up in the air, but I'd just like to see what the average case is for Americans.

As for the "Big Dig"... I'm from Kansas City, where the highways were done right the first time, so I don't care.


You have to admit the highways in KC are much simpler, less overburdened, and most importantly less underground. A regular surface highway will deteriorate, but won't collapse. You can use it forever, as long as you're ok with gradually decreasing road quality. Look at the Berlinka in Poland. Built by Hitler, unmaintained in sections, still in use.
 
2013-07-20 09:09:11 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: mrlewish: My question is why weren't the construction companies made to buy a bond for future fixes?

Why are the contractors not paying for this?


here to help:. Water is merciless. You cannot defeat water. It will always win in the end.

You pay an engineer to say this in court. You win. Well, your bonding company wins and doesn't ruin you.
 
2013-07-20 09:37:32 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: lack of warmth: I wondered where the construction crew of the Zilwaukee Bridge went to, now I know they went to Boston.  If you fail at bridges, try tunnels.

I thought that crew built this:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Harmon

/still one of my favorite construction fark-up stories.


The plywood monolith of the 70's, Boston's John Hancock Tower, laughs in its general direction.
 
2013-07-20 10:25:53 PM
With economic stimulus like that, our economy should be roaring in no time. Think of all the jobs.
 
2013-07-20 10:57:11 PM

Ivo Shandor: netringer: Not a single tollroad has become a freeway. Nevah happen.

It did eventually happen with the Coquihalla highway in Canada. Several years after the original promise, but better late than never.


Dallas Ft. Worth Turnpike is another that became a free highway.

From Wiki...

On August 27, 1957 the highway was open to traffic, but the official opening came a week later on September 5. The turnpike's presence stimulated growth in Grand Prairie and facilitated construction of Six Flags Over Texas. On December 31, 1977, the bonds were paid off and the freeway was handed over to the state Department of Transportation, toll collection ceased, and the tollbooths were removed during the following week.
 
2013-07-20 11:55:44 PM

mrlewish: My question is why weren't the construction companies made to buy a bond for future fixes?


The independent oversight board that was supposed to take care of these things was disbanded by Gob. Celluci (R) as a cost-cutting measure. Seriously.

enry: The MBTA is in financial trouble partially since much of the debt from the Big Dig was dropped in their lap.


The T is in financial trouble almost entirely because of the expansions of the commuter rail.
 
2013-07-21 12:21:09 AM

Marine1: As for the "Big Dig"... I'm from Kansas City, where the highways were done right the first time, so I don't care.


Got a lot of tunnels going under harbors in KC?  How about roadways running through 200yo fill dumped into that harbor when they were making more land?

It's easy to criticize the Big Dig, and a lot of the construction got f*cked up - and as we all know, construction never gets f*cked up anywhere else - but as a feat of engineering it's pretty amazing. Especially considering that the city stayed open for business the whole time.

Here's what they had to do just to build the connector from the end of the existing Pike to the Ted Williams Tunnel:

- Freeze the soil under the tracks at South Station, so they could excavate without disrupting the 12-14 tracks of commuter rail and Amtrak above
- Blast through a giant hunk of protruding bedrock that was blocking the path under Ft. Point Channel
- Somewhere around here they had to go above the twin tubes of the Red Line subway while still being underground
- Pass next to and under the largest Gillette factory in America

The tunnel here was built in sections of "boxes" that were fed into place using something called "tunnel jacking" - pushed into place with gigantic hydraulic rams.

After all that it was a basic cut and cover job.

How about the slurry-wall technique they used to build a 6-8 lane highway underground beneath an existing elevated 4-6 lane Interstate? Or how oddly proud some of us are to be home to the world's largest asymmetrical cable-stay bridge (which itself is the result of some marvelously creative traffic flow planning)?

/hats off to Fred Salvucci
//finger raised to Weld, Cellucci, and Swift
 
2013-07-21 01:07:16 AM

DubyaHater: Taxpayers should demand a refund for this substandard work. If I buy something, and it's defective, I return it.
Or the city of Boston and the state of Massachusetts should be forced to find the money elsewhere. No reason to burden taxpayers further with this failed project and its large price tag. When the A/C in my home dies, I don't ask my neighbors for money. I have to pull money from elsewhere in order to pay for it.


The problem is, since it's the gov't it's still your money.

 So sure, they could pull money out of the local schools, libraries, or firefighters, but how would that help?

 Nope, the one who should pony up is the guy who built the thing and promised it would be dry. He was paid to do a job and if the job isn't done, neither is he.
 
2013-07-21 02:20:38 AM
Make sure you thank Obama for refusing to use that trust fund for what it was set up for. You can thank him at the 2014 ballot box by firing all his friends.
 
2013-07-21 02:46:28 AM

Mach10: It is a 'North American' thing to enjoy a service [social, infrastructure, otherwise] but biatch like a dog in heat over the prospect of PAYING for it.

It's a consumption tax, you brainless morans. If you don't want to pay that tax, don't drive on the toll roads.


Or don't live in Boston or preferably Massachusetts. Personally, I'm choosing that alternative.
 
2013-07-21 06:37:51 AM
The toll booths were removed on the Niagara section of the thruway at Buffalo NY. Katherine Hocul had a lot to do with that...a Democrat.
 
2013-07-21 12:39:17 PM

kazikian: Marine1: SN1987a goes boom: DubyaHater: Taxpayers should demand a refund for this substandard work. If I buy something, and it's defective, I return it.
Or the city of Boston and the state of Massachusetts should be forced to find the money elsewhere. No reason to burden taxpayers further with this failed project and its large price tag. When the A/C in my home dies, I don't ask my neighbors for money. I have to pull money from elsewhere in order to pay for it.

I'll bet you think we should also balance our national debt like you do your checkbook.

/Macro and Microeconomics are not comparable so stop it.

It'd be interesting, for one year or a few, to have a balance sheet for every American. What you pay in taxes v. what you consume in government services. Do it for corporations as well. Whether anything is made of it is up in the air, but I'd just like to see what the average case is for Americans.

As for the "Big Dig"... I'm from Kansas City, where the highways were done right the first time, so I don't care.

You have to admit the highways in KC are much simpler, less overburdened, and most importantly less underground. A regular surface highway will deteriorate, but won't collapse. You can use it forever, as long as you're ok with gradually decreasing road quality. Look at the Berlinka in Poland. Built by Hitler, unmaintained in sections, still in use.


That's the point. There's more or less a carrying capacity for these cities if you want to live in a place where you can easily drive a car from point A to point B. The Kansas City Metro rides the line of good planning and good density.

However, even after going to cities with roughly the same or even less density than KC has... it's still better. By quite a bit.
 
2013-07-21 10:26:13 PM

SlothB77: Boston - run by democrats.  Detroit - run by democrats.  The same thing is going to happen to boston that is happening to detroit.  People will leave and they will run out of other people's money.


Every single large city in the US that has run into financial problems has been run by Americans. I think this is proof that Americans are financially incompetent.
 
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