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(Yahoo)   Lawyer to NYC restaurants: Here's a tip for you ... your "automatic gratuity" charge is illegal   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 165
    More: Spiffy, willful violation  
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16303 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Jul 2013 at 11:04 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-20 09:22:58 AM
Tipping thread? Oh boy!

www.overclock.net
 
2013-07-20 09:26:44 AM
Sounds like a pretty shady business practice to me. I seldom look very close at a bill in a restaurant, I just look for the total, add a tip and sign it. I'm curious how many people added an additional 15-20% on top of the tip already included.
 
2013-07-20 09:43:43 AM
What did the leper say to the prostitute?


/Keep the change and you'd better see a physician because you might have contracted leprosy...
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-07-20 09:47:15 AM
If I pay 15% on top of the 17% the net tip is about 35% (1.17 * 1.15 - 1). How is that 35% split between waiter (or tip pool) and owner?
 
2013-07-20 09:50:59 AM
24.media.tumblr.com

/ obligatory
 
2013-07-20 10:49:53 AM
"They want to squeeze that extra little dollar that they can out of everybody," Evan Spencer, the lawyer who brought the $5.5 billion class action lawsuit told CBS .. who then spontaneously combusted from the irony.
 
2013-07-20 11:09:55 AM
Here's another tip: get a real job.
 
2013-07-20 11:11:37 AM

Bslim: Here's another tip: get a real job.


Are you referring to the lawyers, or the servers? That could swing either direction.
 
2013-07-20 11:15:32 AM
I don't see what is illegal about charging large groups more. It is listed on the menu.
 
2013-07-20 11:16:08 AM
I don't tip. I over tip.
i1231.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-20 11:16:46 AM

SN1987a goes boom: Are you "race-baiting" again?


Is "race-baiting" when I jerk off to interracial porn?
 
2013-07-20 11:17:07 AM

Smackledorfer: I don't see what is illegal about charging large groups more. It is listed on the menu.


Why don't you try reading the article for a change.
 
2013-07-20 11:17:16 AM

ElLoco: Bslim: Here's another tip: get a real job.

Are you referring to the lawyers, or the servers? That could swing either direction.


Por que no los dos?
 
2013-07-20 11:17:19 AM

Bslim: Here's another tip: get a real job.


That attitude is infuriating. A job where one earns a wage and pays taxes is a real job. Get off your high horse you nerdy little piece of shait.
 
2013-07-20 11:18:16 AM
Tipping should not be mandatory. If your waitperson was fast and professional, then they earned their tip. If they stood at the end of your table talking about themselves, then no tip. Also, never tip carry outs. Mangement gets that money.

/Waited tables my first year in college.
//Hated working Sundays, because some Jesus F*cker would always stiff me.
 
2013-07-20 11:18:22 AM
Having worked at a restaurant like this before. I guarantee that the receipt plainly says that gratuity has been added. This guy is a nozzle, but that's already pretty clear. The gratuity is intended as insurance against getting screwed over by large parties (in spite of any customer-friendly line that the restaurant spews).

It sounds like he's claiming that being too lazy to read a receipt means he should be entitled to a cash settlement. That's like getting out of a contract because you were too lazy to read the terms of the agreement.

The chain that I worked at stopped doing auto-grat on eight or more, and serving large parties became too much of a crapshoot to be worth your time. It doesn't hurt to have a two-four top screwing you over, but when you have to devote 100% of your time and energy to a single party it can ruin your night. If you come to a restaurant with a large party, it's a much more significant logistical thing for servers than most patrons realize.

/Glad I made it out
 
2013-07-20 11:18:33 AM

BlousyBrown: Bslim: Here's another tip: get a real job.

That attitude is infuriating. A job where one earns a wage and pays taxes is a real job. Get off your high horse you nerdy little piece of shait.


No way.  Everyone should be a cube-dwelling wage slave with little flexibility in their work schedule.  It's the American way.
 
2013-07-20 11:23:26 AM

Summer Glau's Love Slave: Tipping should not be mandatory. If your waitperson was fast and professional, then they earned their tip. If they stood at the end of your table talking about themselves, then no tip. Also, never tip carry outs. Mangement gets that money.

/Waited tables my first year in college.
//Hated working Sundays, because some Jesus F*cker would always stiff me.


That depends on the restaurant. I got tipped for carryouts. It's common though.

You're right about Sunday though...Sunday is $2 dollars per elderly couple day.
 
2013-07-20 11:24:20 AM
If McDonald's can pay its employees  minimum wage, a Five-star restaurant can as well.

For what they charge they should be paying them a  maximum wage.
 
2013-07-20 11:24:41 AM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: "They want to squeeze that extra little dollar that they can out of everybody," Evan Spencer, the lawyer who brought the $5.5 billion class action lawsuit told CBS .. who then spontaneously combusted from the irony.


WIN
 
2013-07-20 11:26:00 AM
FTA: Darden Restaurants, which owns Olive Garden and Red Lobster, released a statement to CBS responding to the suit. "The automatic gratuity is a convenience for our guests," the statement said.

That's some mafia-esque brazenness right there.
 
2013-07-20 11:26:06 AM
How 'bout you pay your servers a decent wage, and let's just forget about tipping, altogether.
 
2013-07-20 11:27:47 AM

tricycleracer: BlousyBrown: Bslim: Here's another tip: get a real job.

That attitude is infuriating. A job where one earns a wage and pays taxes is a real job. Get off your high horse you nerdy little piece of shait.

No way.  Everyone should be a cube-dwelling wage slave with little flexibility in their work schedule.  It's the American way.


Yeah keep telling yourself whatever helps get you up in the morning, food jockey.
 
2013-07-20 11:29:23 AM

R.A.Danny: Smackledorfer: I don't see what is illegal about charging large groups more. It is listed on the menu.

Why don't you try reading the article for a change.


It's a yahoo article that in no way explained the legal framework. It linked to an autoplay video that, since I am on my phone, I quickly decided I didn't care enough to watch.

Funny to see you pretending they can take a high road against ignorance though.
 
2013-07-20 11:31:52 AM
A Long Island man was arrested in 2004 for refusing to pay an 18 percent restaurant tip. But the local district attorney dropped the charge,Time magazine reported, saying tipping is at the diner's discretion.

Now that is BS.
 
2013-07-20 11:32:14 AM

Bslim: tricycleracer: BlousyBrown: Bslim: Here's another tip: get a real job.

That attitude is infuriating. A job where one earns a wage and pays taxes is a real job. Get off your high horse you nerdy little piece of shait.

No way.  Everyone should be a cube-dwelling wage slave with little flexibility in their work schedule.  It's the American way.

Yeah keep telling yourself whatever helps get you up in the morning, food jockey.


I'm a cube-dweller, dude.  That way of life isn't for everyone.
 
2013-07-20 11:32:31 AM
why not just pay them a decent wage and forgo tipping?
 
2013-07-20 11:34:57 AM

Smackledorfer: R.A.Danny: Smackledorfer: I don't see what is illegal about charging large groups more. It is listed on the menu.

Why don't you try reading the article for a change.

It's a yahoo article that in no way explained the legal framework. It linked to an autoplay video that, since I am on my phone, I quickly decided I didn't care enough to watch.

Funny to see you pretending they can take a high road against ignorance though.


The second paragraph stated that this was being done on all diners, regardless of the size of the party. Why is the fact that it's on Yahoo even an issue?
 
2013-07-20 11:37:33 AM

Diana Fyer: How 'bout you pay your servers a decent wage, and let's just forget about tipping, altogether.


I'm okay with tipping, although I think it would be more ideal if the base wage were higher and the tip percentage were lower, probably. I live in a $2.13 state. Tipping should be a reward for good service, and it should still sting pockets and send a message if a server sucks.

Restaurants use tip percentage to award hours and section sizes often, and it gives good servers a way to make more money for actually acheiving more than base competency.
 
2013-07-20 11:38:35 AM
I have a sneaky suspicion, based on a couple experiences as a member of a large party, that most of the people in the party tip fairly well, but that some members of the large party either don't tip well, forget tax when they add up their share, or flat out don't put in what they say they did.  I've had several times when we were counting up the money at the end when the tip came out to less than what I'd put in for tip.

It made me mad, but so did the waiters who kept adding items that no one ordered or received to the bill hoping that at a large table no one would notice.

Do any waiters out there who work at places that break the bill down by seat notice different tipping patterns in large groups?
 
2013-07-20 11:39:52 AM

kkinnison: why not just pay them a decent wage and forgo tipping?


That's just crazy talk.

/Worked in a place where all the tips were collected by mangement, and then split equally at the end of the day.
//Some of the wait-staff were so slow that you could clock them with a calendar.
///It was like the Walking Dead Diner.
 
2013-07-20 11:40:50 AM
As long as they continue to pay the chefs $10/hr, I am ok with this.
 
2013-07-20 11:42:18 AM

Diana Fyer: How 'bout you pay your servers a decent wage, and let's just forget about tipping, altogether.


Yep.  We're done.
 
2013-07-20 11:44:50 AM
Any time I eat at a place that has auto gratuity, I like to talk to the manager and explain that I would have tipped the server more had they not auto added it and that they just farked their server out of cash.
 
2013-07-20 11:45:15 AM
"...the $5.5 billion class action lawsuit..."


img.gawkerassets.com
 
2013-07-20 11:51:52 AM

tricycleracer: Is "race-baiting" when I jerk off to interracial porn?


I don't care if the woman does it with a dog, cat, horse, pig, mule, armadillo, wombat, kangaroo or penguin. Uses props, a crucifix, a chalice or other religious relic. I draw the line at colored guys.
 
2013-07-20 11:53:28 AM

Cobblestone Flag: Having worked at a restaurant like this before. I guarantee that the receipt plainly says that gratuity has been added. This guy is a nozzle, but that's already pretty clear. The gratuity is intended as insurance against getting screwed over by large parties (in spite of any customer-friendly line that the restaurant spews).

It sounds like he's claiming that being too lazy to read a receipt means he should be entitled to a cash settlement. That's like getting out of a contract because you were too lazy to read the terms of the agreement.

The chain that I worked at stopped doing auto-grat on eight or more, and serving large parties became too much of a crapshoot to be worth your time. It doesn't hurt to have a two-four top screwing you over, but when you have to devote 100% of your time and energy to a single party it can ruin your night. If you come to a restaurant with a large party, it's a much more significant logistical thing for servers than most patrons realize.

/Glad I made it out


Read the article.  It is legal, but only for parties of eight or more.  These restaurants were doing it to two tops, which is not customary or expected.
 
2013-07-20 11:55:30 AM
Yeah, that auto tip thing is pretty galling.  But let's think about this a little more.  Sure, they might be suing a big chain restaurant corporation, but the automatic gratuity doesn't go to the corporation or restaurant managers, it goes to the wait staff.  And the purpose of it is just to make their jobs a little less awful and their pay more consistent by minimizing the people who shaft them or are just cheap unempathetic pricks.  So in effect what you have is rich lawyers up against Olive Garden waitresses for their right to screw them if they deem they weren't quick enough with the unlimited breadsticks.

And if the suit is successful?  Darden coughs up tens of millions of dollars, which maybe they can swallow or maybe they can't and they close some restaurants and lay off that wait staff.  70% of the millions is distributed to every patron they have record of who was victim of the auto-tip atrocity.  Each of them receives an unsolicited check in the mail for $6.23.  The already rich lawyers take home 30% of tens of millions.  But far more importantly they win back the right to give their Olive Garden waitress $3 on their $30 bill instead of $5 or $6 that any decent person should.

Our heroes!
 
2013-07-20 11:55:46 AM

Cobblestone Flag: Restaurants use tip percentage to award hours and section sizes often, and it gives good servers a way to make more money for actually acheiving more than base competency.

if they offer cash kickbacks or sexual favors to management.
 
2013-07-20 11:57:17 AM

DrunkWithImpotence: Cobblestone Flag: Having worked at a restaurant like this before. I guarantee that the receipt plainly says that gratuity has been added. This guy is a nozzle, but that's already pretty clear. The gratuity is intended as insurance against getting screwed over by large parties (in spite of any customer-friendly line that the restaurant spews).

It sounds like he's claiming that being too lazy to read a receipt means he should be entitled to a cash settlement. That's like getting out of a contract because you were too lazy to read the terms of the agreement.

The chain that I worked at stopped doing auto-grat on eight or more, and serving large parties became too much of a crapshoot to be worth your time. It doesn't hurt to have a two-four top screwing you over, but when you have to devote 100% of your time and energy to a single party it can ruin your night. If you come to a restaurant with a large party, it's a much more significant logistical thing for servers than most patrons realize.

/Glad I made it out

Read the article.  It is legal, but only for parties of eight or more.  These restaurants were doing it to two tops, which is not customary or expected.


-.- I lost the game
 
2013-07-20 11:58:31 AM

DrunkWithImpotence: Cobblestone Flag: Having worked at a restaurant like this before. I guarantee that the receipt plainly says that gratuity has been added. This guy is a nozzle, but that's already pretty clear. The gratuity is intended as insurance against getting screwed over by large parties (in spite of any customer-friendly line that the restaurant spews).

It sounds like he's claiming that being too lazy to read a receipt means he should be entitled to a cash settlement. That's like getting out of a contract because you were too lazy to read the terms of the agreement.

The chain that I worked at stopped doing auto-grat on eight or more, and serving large parties became too much of a crapshoot to be worth your time. It doesn't hurt to have a two-four top screwing you over, but when you have to devote 100% of your time and energy to a single party it can ruin your night. If you come to a restaurant with a large party, it's a much more significant logistical thing for servers than most patrons realize.

/Glad I made it out

Read the article.  It is legal, but only for parties of eight or more.  These restaurants were doing it to two tops, which is not customary or expected.


Previous cases would seem to indicate that the x% for parties of y or more model is not actually binding though, but fighting it is probably not worth the trouble.
 
2013-07-20 11:58:55 AM
I don't mind tipping, in fact I think waiters and waitresses who do their job deserve to get decent tips. Only once in this month have I tipped close to 35%, ironically it was a family owned BBQ restaurant. Not once did I have to beg for a beer, when mine was close to finished the guy would bring me another one. Yeah don't it suck when you sit down at a nice place and order drinks and either they take 45 minutes for drinks or bring you one and that's it? Or the food, which gets delivered and you never see a waitress/waiter again?
Take the time to check on people, make them feel special for spending MONEY in your establishment - I'm not royalty, my money only stretches so much, but honestly the average attitude of a waiter or waitress really just doesn't give a shiat, which is why they piss and moan about tips.

/my sister worked for a place called Burns steakhouse in Tampa, FL - she was about to graduate college or whatever to become an FBI agent, then realized she made three times the money as a waitress... instead now is a regional manager for Verizon.
//It has to be a crappy job I give them props for doing a really harsh job especially when dealing with crappy kids or just aholes who get treated like royalty only to leave 1% tip.
 
2013-07-20 11:59:52 AM
Shiat like this is one of the many reasons I think people should be conscripted in this country again.  Some jobs people should just get to know personally before they start their moronic diatribes about 'real jobs'.

Seriously, straight after high school every young adult spends 2 years conscripted to various jobs, and their only choice is what order they do them.  6 months in some military capacity including boot camp, all of which should include firearm training and safety; no tours of duty until after if they decide to stay.  6 months working in the food service industry... serving, catering, busboy, whatever.  6 months doing volunteer work, whatever non-profit charity group they want.  Finally, 6 months learning a trade skill of their choice... mechanic, plumbing, electrician, whatever... but trained enough for them to do entry level work if they had to.

Would solve a lot of problems that're quickly creeping up in this country.
 
2013-07-20 12:01:11 PM

Cobblestone Flag: DrunkWithImpotence: Cobblestone Flag: Having worked at a restaurant like this before. I guarantee that the receipt plainly says that gratuity has been added. This guy is a nozzle, but that's already pretty clear. The gratuity is intended as insurance against getting screwed over by large parties (in spite of any customer-friendly line that the restaurant spews).

It sounds like he's claiming that being too lazy to read a receipt means he should be entitled to a cash settlement. That's like getting out of a contract because you were too lazy to read the terms of the agreement.

The chain that I worked at stopped doing auto-grat on eight or more, and serving large parties became too much of a crapshoot to be worth your time. It doesn't hurt to have a two-four top screwing you over, but when you have to devote 100% of your time and energy to a single party it can ruin your night. If you come to a restaurant with a large party, it's a much more significant logistical thing for servers than most patrons realize.

/Glad I made it out

Read the article.  It is legal, but only for parties of eight or more.  These restaurants were doing it to two tops, which is not customary or expected.

-.- I lost the game


You recovered gracefully.
 
2013-07-20 12:03:31 PM

Dinkledort: Yeah, that auto tip thing is pretty galling.  But let's think about this a little more.  Sure, they might be suing a big chain restaurant corporation, but the automatic gratuity doesn't go to the corporation or restaurant managers, it goes to the wait staff.  And the purpose of it is just to make their jobs a little less awful and their pay more consistent by minimizing the people who shaft them or are just cheap unempathetic pricks.  So in effect what you have is rich lawyers up against Olive Garden waitresses for their right to screw them if they deem they weren't quick enough with the unlimited breadsticks.

And if the suit is successful?  Darden coughs up tens of millions of dollars, which maybe they can swallow or maybe they can't and they close some restaurants and lay off that wait staff.  70% of the millions is distributed to every patron they have record of who was victim of the auto-tip atrocity.  Each of them receives an unsolicited check in the mail for $6.23.  The already rich lawyers take home 30% of tens of millions.  But far more importantly they win back the right to give their Olive Garden waitress $3 on their $30 bill instead of $5 or $6 that any decent person should.

Our heroes!


WTF, the argument is most ppl dont expect auto gratuity for small parties and end up tipping double. I'd probably mistake a gratuity line on a small bill for tax. What are the odds servers point this out to customers at these restaurants?

The staff are screwing over the customer right along with the business so boo hoo.
 
2013-07-20 12:11:02 PM

Diana Fyer: How 'bout you pay your servers a decent wage, and let's just forget about tipping, altogether.


This.

We're going to have to do this some day. Just from the outrage on Fark tipping threads one can tell it's an issue.
 
2013-07-20 12:11:24 PM

Misconduc: I don't mind tipping, in fact I think waiters and waitresses who do their job deserve to get decent tips. Only once in this month have I tipped close to 35%, ironically it was a family owned BBQ restaurant. Not once did I have to beg for a beer, when mine was close to finished the guy would bring me another one. Yeah don't it suck when you sit down at a nice place and order drinks and either they take 45 minutes for drinks or bring you one and that's it? Or the food, which gets delivered and you never see a waitress/waiter again?
Take the time to check on people, make them feel special for spending MONEY in your establishment - I'm not royalty, my money only stretches so much, but honestly the average attitude of a waiter or waitress really just doesn't give a shiat, which is why they piss and moan about tips.

/my sister worked for a place called Burns steakhouse in Tampa, FL - she was about to graduate college or whatever to become an FBI agent, then realized she made three times the money as a waitress... instead now is a regional manager for Verizon.
//It has to be a crappy job I give them props for doing a really harsh job especially when dealing with crappy kids or just aholes who get treated like royalty only to leave 1% tip.


I always tip well but waitstaff's entitled attitude about tipping is annoying. When I was growing up 10-15% was a good tip but now people seem to want more for doing less. My favorite dining out experience is when waitstaff repeatedly interrupt a conversation to ask dumb questions like do you want more water? Just refill the farking water!
 
2013-07-20 12:16:24 PM
Pure irony gold. An attorney bringing a class action suit, in which the attorneys are the only ones who get rich, talking about squeezing out every last dollar.
 
2013-07-20 12:16:54 PM

Smackledorfer: I don't see what is illegal about charging large groups more. It is listed on the menu.




Looks like you don't read so how would you know?

FTA, "The network posted images of an Olive Garden check with a line for an "automatic gratuity" of 18 percent added to the price of a meal, as well as a place to add an additional tip, regardless of the number of diners."
 
2013-07-20 12:17:11 PM

elysive: Misconduc: I don't mind tipping, in fact I think waiters and waitresses who do their job deserve to get decent tips. Only once in this month have I tipped close to 35%, ironically it was a family owned BBQ restaurant. Not once did I have to beg for a beer, when mine was close to finished the guy would bring me another one. Yeah don't it suck when you sit down at a nice place and order drinks and either they take 45 minutes for drinks or bring you one and that's it? Or the food, which gets delivered and you never see a waitress/waiter again?
Take the time to check on people, make them feel special for spending MONEY in your establishment - I'm not royalty, my money only stretches so much, but honestly the average attitude of a waiter or waitress really just doesn't give a shiat, which is why they piss and moan about tips.

/my sister worked for a place called Burns steakhouse in Tampa, FL - she was about to graduate college or whatever to become an FBI agent, then realized she made three times the money as a waitress... instead now is a regional manager for Verizon.
//It has to be a crappy job I give them props for doing a really harsh job especially when dealing with crappy kids or just aholes who get treated like royalty only to leave 1% tip.

I always tip well but waitstaff's entitled attitude about tipping is annoying. When I was growing up 10-15% was a good tip but now people seem to want more for doing less. My favorite dining out experience is when waitstaff repeatedly interrupt a conversation to ask dumb questions like do you want more water? Just refill the farking water!


Right because what waiters say is entirely up to the waiter's discretion - no way management requires them to ask (and no way they would send secret diners to make sure they follow the script and 'write them up' if they don't act like cheerful automatons)
 
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