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(New Scientist)   Cars can be remotely taken over if you have access to the latest technology. And by latest technology, we mean a $25 gadget   (newscientist.com) divider line 63
    More: Scary, National Academy of Sciences, cellular network, ECU, gadgets, New Scientist, remote controls, hackers, Computer Crime  
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5576 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 Jul 2013 at 8:44 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-19 05:10:46 PM  
This could save Radio Shack.
 
2013-07-19 05:29:33 PM  
Good luck hacking my '88 Pontiac.
 
2013-07-19 05:30:48 PM  
images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-07-19 05:48:05 PM  
Good thing I own an old POS.
 
2013-07-19 05:55:34 PM  

LZeitgeist: Good luck hacking my '88 Pontiac.


Easily. Specifically, you hack the brake line.
 
2013-07-19 06:47:39 PM  

RexTalionis: LZeitgeist: Good luck hacking my '88 Pontiac.

Easily. Specifically, you hack the brake line.


Remotely?
 
2013-07-19 06:51:22 PM  

LZeitgeist: RexTalionis: LZeitgeist: Good luck hacking my '88 Pontiac.

Easily. Specifically, you hack the brake line.

Remotely?


No, with a hack saw.
 
2013-07-19 07:00:12 PM  
It would be a lot easier to bump him, chase him, and then run him off the road.  More reliable too.  And wouldn't leave a bunch of pesky evidence behind.
 
2013-07-19 08:19:55 PM  
It's time to give up our dependence and love affair with personal vehicles


/freedom lover
 
2013-07-19 08:34:39 PM  
Guess my 1998 Ford Ranger is fairly safe... hopefully anyway.
 
2013-07-19 08:48:36 PM  
"Now Officer, maybe I was weaving because I've drunk too much, officer, or perhaps--my car's computer was remotely hacked!  Who's to say?"
 
2013-07-19 09:03:26 PM  
good luck with them hacking my 2005 kawasaki.  about the most basic electrical system you can have.. although it does allow itself to have electronic ignition (but NO computer).

this (and the mpg I get) are the reason I got rid of my truck
 
2013-07-19 09:04:20 PM  
Ahh, they hacked a Daimler Benz product, the Buick of Europe.
/no wonder
 
2013-07-19 09:04:41 PM  
Why is this a big deal?  You've been able to reprogram ECU's with aftermarket mods for years now.
 
2013-07-19 09:15:48 PM  

Lsherm: Why is this a big deal?  You've been able to reprogram ECU's with aftermarket mods for years now.


Well, if the article's fearmongering is to be believed, certain modern cars would be susceptible to a remote hack
 
2013-07-19 09:17:14 PM  
Came for Dr. Horrible.

Left satisfied.
 
2013-07-19 09:18:06 PM  
I'd have to see proof of this, I could see turning a car on/off remotely, but actually driving it seems a little far fetched. The computers on cars may monitor acceleration and breaking but I don't think they have the ability to actually control them.
 
2013-07-19 09:18:47 PM  
Boy, that comment looks terrible in retrospect. No innuendo intended.
 
2013-07-19 09:24:51 PM  

ReapTheChaos: I'd have to see proof of this, I could see turning a car on/off remotely, but actually driving it seems a little far fetched. The computers on cars may monitor acceleration and breaking but I don't think they have the ability to actually control them.


I don't know about braking but my automatic cruise control suggests it is quite possible to cause it to accelerate.
 
2013-07-19 09:27:33 PM  
Does it turn your steering wheel, disable the brakes (including the e-brake), or prevent you from putting it in neutral and turning off the ignition?
 
2013-07-19 09:29:28 PM  
www.leatherdiscovery.com

I'd buy that for $25
 
2013-07-19 09:41:17 PM  
I control it remotly, and when I get this baby up to 88 miles per hour, you're going to see some serious shiat.
 
2013-07-19 10:03:44 PM  
My car I can't control IT!!!!!!111111eleventy.
*pushes clutch, puts on handbrake,*

And problem solved.
 
2013-07-19 10:05:12 PM  

Sim Tree: I control it remotly, and when I get this baby up to 88 miles per hour, you're going to see some serious shiat.


That's heavy.
 
2013-07-19 10:11:36 PM  
hereandnow.wbur.org
Does not approve.
 
2013-07-19 10:12:12 PM  

Surool: Does it turn your steering wheel, disable the brakes (including the e-brake), or prevent you from putting it in neutral and turning off the ignition?


Disabling the ignition is a possibility, I guess you could disable the Traction Control and ABS, but as far as I know every cars brakes are designed to work with no power.  Now steering is where it gets interesting cars with electric power steering and auto parking systems might be venerable. However, it sounds like these guys only hacked the engine management computer, cars do not have 1 single computer they have multiple so failure of a non essential item (like parking assist, navigation, app integration etc.) does not completely disable the car.
 
2013-07-19 10:12:17 PM  
Regardless of the hackablity, or lack thereof, of cars, anybody who thinks that Michael Hastings' death was anything other than first-degree murder is an idiot.
 
2013-07-19 10:13:31 PM  

Surool: Does it turn your steering wheel, disable the brakes (including the e-brake), or prevent you from putting it in neutral and turning off the ignition?


For the example in this article, steering isn't necessary as it was intended to kill the guy by driving fast into an object, straight lines will always find an object to hit. Also in a fit of panic when a car goes out of control, shifting to neutral or turning the ignition off is ironically the last thing most people think of, as its not a learned expierience when trying to drive a car. Acceleration and braking are commonly controlled nowadays by the computer, so it can let off the brakes/gas or apply them since both of those are part of advanced traction control systems (removing the driver from the controls briefly, as the computer knows best). Now as for the e-brake, thats normally purely mechanical, but its also very weak.
 
2013-07-19 10:16:17 PM  

Vaneshi: My car I can't control IT!!!!!!111111eleventy.
*pushes clutch, puts on handbrake,*

And problem solved.


It's a shifter car I can't drive a shifter car.
 
2013-07-19 10:24:12 PM  
I'm building a controller for my own Electric Car conversion. Should be able to keep it safe.
 
2013-07-19 10:31:42 PM  
My wife got a 250C Michael Hastings Edition Mercedes as a loaner recently.

When she turned it back in, I discussed turning on the Mbrase in her car on her next trip to the dealer. After reading this, I'm not so sure.

On the other hand, someone could get very rich peddling these black boxes to local PDs and local cartels, simultaneously.  By then there'll be an app for that, $5.99 without advertising, free with.
 
2013-07-19 10:33:19 PM  

monthos: Surool: Does it turn your steering wheel, disable the brakes (including the e-brake), or prevent you from putting it in neutral and turning off the ignition?

For the example in this article, steering isn't necessary as it was intended to kill the guy by driving fast into an object, straight lines will always find an object to hit. Also in a fit of panic when a car goes out of control, shifting to neutral or turning the ignition off is ironically the last thing most people think of, as its not a learned expierience when trying to drive a car. Acceleration and braking are commonly controlled nowadays by the computer, so it can let off the brakes/gas or apply them since both of those are part of advanced traction control systems (removing the driver from the controls briefly, as the computer knows best). Now as for the e-brake, thats normally purely mechanical, but its also very weak.


But, remember for a car to be hackable, you must connect it to your phone, so if you are really worried about it don't connect your phone to it.
 
2013-07-19 10:42:20 PM  
Sounds like Hastings got caught in a...


...deadly Mbrace.
 
2013-07-19 10:43:50 PM  

Surool: Does it turn your steering wheel, disable the brakes (including the e-brake), or prevent you from putting it in neutral and turning off the ignition?


No and your never getting that Toyota back just let it go.
 
2013-07-19 10:45:01 PM  
No and you're never getting that Toyota back just let it go.

/fark you Bob
 
2013-07-19 10:57:01 PM  
I think the bigger scare is with "smart" keyless vehicle theft. Just have to crack the cars code quickly and you can drive any of the new keyless cars away quickly.
 
2013-07-19 11:06:53 PM  
Remember those GM commercials from a few years back where the On-Star service is used to remotely disable a "stolen" vehicle so the cops can recover it? If some customer service flunkie can do that, anyone can, with the right tools.

As much as I want to buy a new car, the amount of always-connected electronic crap they shove into them these days is a major turnoff. I don't want my car tattling to the insurance company. I don't want a farking touchscreen on the dashboard.

What I want is a modern, lightweight chassis with modern safety technology, a fuel-efficient, reliable engine that makes at least 100hp/L, a proper manual transmission with 5 or 6 speeds, a good no-frills sound system with physical buttons to control it, air conditioning, bucket seats, and not much else. Maybe a cupholder and place to charge my phone.
 
2013-07-19 11:17:24 PM  
Good luck hacking my 80cc.
 
2013-07-19 11:18:21 PM  

Tom_Slick: Vaneshi: My car I can't control IT!!!!!!111111eleventy.
*pushes clutch, puts on handbrake,*

And problem solved.

It's a shifter car I can't drive a shifter car.


Take key from ignition.  Problem solved.
If key = RF device THEN open window, remove 'key' from ignition area, throw out of window.  Problem solved 10s later when it's out of range.

Either way the engine dies.
 
2013-07-19 11:24:55 PM  
That article was an idiotic diatribe by an individual who understands none of the technology that underlies a car's electronics and uses an unfortunate accident to pimp his utterly pointless writing. None of what was posted meant anything devoid of the alleged reveal that is still more than a week away.

By extension, I no longer trust any articles from 'New Scientist' and suspect that they are staffed entirely by morons.
 
2013-07-19 11:29:42 PM  
Killing thorns-in-the-side is so banana republic- or Putin-esque. American power brokers destroy truth-tellers' reputations using the news media and journalists themselves. That more than anything is the strongest evidence against a high-tech hit on Hastings.
 
2013-07-19 11:40:49 PM  

Vaneshi: Either way the engine dies.


The vast majority of cars on the road have a system whereby if the brake and the throttle are "fighting" with one another the brake wins. You don't have to be smart enough to drive your car or even smart enough to turn it off, just smart enough to know how it slows down.

/ guess the one big maker who didn't go that route until fairly recently... go ahead... guess....
 
2013-07-19 11:52:53 PM  

DrPainMD: Regardless of the hackablity, or lack thereof, of cars, anybody who thinks that Michael Hastings' death was anything other than first-degree murder is an idiot.


Because people rarely die in car crashes? It's such a rare event that when it does happen, it always makes national and international news? Eventually you would expect notable people to die in car crashes, and a bit more rarely (because the group itself may be somewhat small), people disliked by governments to die in car crashes.
 
2013-07-20 12:01:31 AM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Remember those GM commercials from a few years back where the On-Star service is used to remotely disable a "stolen" vehicle so the cops can recover it? If some customer service flunkie can do that, anyone can, with the right tools.

As much as I want to buy a new car, the amount of always-connected electronic crap they shove into them these days is a major turnoff. I don't want my car tattling to the insurance company. I don't want a farking touchscreen on the dashboard.

What I want is a modern, lightweight chassis with modern safety technology, a fuel-efficient, reliable engine that makes at least 100hp/L, a proper manual transmission with 5 or 6 speeds, a good no-frills sound system with physical buttons to control it, air conditioning, bucket seats, and not much else. Maybe a cupholder and place to charge my phone.


You want a Lotus Elise. For real.
 
2013-07-20 12:19:41 AM  

monthos: Surool: Does it turn your steering wheel, disable the brakes (including the e-brake), or prevent you from putting it in neutral and turning off the ignition?

For the example in this article, steering isn't necessary as it was intended to kill the guy by driving fast into an object, straight lines will always find an object to hit. Also in a fit of panic when a car goes out of control, shifting to neutral or turning the ignition off is ironically the last thing most people think of, as its not a learned expierience when trying to drive a car. Acceleration and braking are commonly controlled nowadays by the computer, so it can let off the brakes/gas or apply them since both of those are part of advanced traction control systems (removing the driver from the controls briefly, as the computer knows best). Now as for the e-brake, thats normally purely mechanical, but its also very weak.


You also need to physically connect to the computer to hack it.
 
2013-07-20 12:28:57 AM  

Sgeo: Because people rarely die in car crashes?


I have little objective reason to believe that Hastings's death was anything but accidental.

That said..... I hope the conspiracy theorists stay on this one. I don't buy their story because the objective facts don't support them, but in this scenario I'm okay with them pushing the agenda in case there are facts we're currently missing.

Honestly, I don't know why, I just have a feeling something is amiss here. I seriously doubt the government is after him or anything like that, but something just seems very odd about he circumstances. You're right in that freak accidents will occasionally claim lives, but something just seems "off" about the combination of factors in this particular incident.
 
2013-07-20 12:30:49 AM  

Znuh: You want a Lotus Elise. For real.


27 mpg is garbage nowadays, especially for a 2 seater.
 
2013-07-20 12:40:21 AM  
'Hastings had emailed colleagues the day before he died to say that he was going "off the radar for a bit" to chase down a "big story". '

Anyone else notices this wording, For those who don't understand this particular euphemism, he was planning on going on a large drug binge.

Not that take could be considered the cause of a high speed crash could it.
 
2013-07-20 12:40:22 AM  

Znuh: You want a Lotus Elise. For real.


Actually, he wants a BRZ/FR-S. Unless he wants to go to the track, in which case you're correct.
 
2013-07-20 12:58:27 AM  

skozlaw: Znuh: You want a Lotus Elise. For real.

Actually, he wants a BRZ/FR-S. Unless he wants to go to the track, in which case you're correct.


Totally blanked on the BRZ! But yeah, if you hit the track, the Elise is the one to go for.
 
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