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(Business Insider)   Federal Reserve says the U.S. economy is growing at a modest rate. Apparently, if they keep saying it enough, someone will eventually believe it   ( businessinsider.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Federal Reserve, U.S. economy, primary sector of the economy, car dealership, oil and gas exploration, finished goods, final goods, benefit cost  
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326 clicks; posted to Business » on 19 Jul 2013 at 9:31 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-19 09:00:51 AM  
As opposed to constantly repeating that the economy is recessive will make people believe it as well
 
2013-07-19 09:31:18 AM  

Peter von Nostrand: As opposed to constantly repeating shouting at the top of your lungs ad nauseam that the economy is recessive will make people believe it as well


FTFY
 
2013-07-19 09:32:10 AM  
Modest like a Salt Lake City matriarch.
Ain't nobody getting laid at all.
 
2013-07-19 09:36:34 AM  
If subby can present any information - actual data, not anecdotal "I know a guy that can't find a job" - that suggests otherwise, I'd like to hear it.
 
2013-07-19 09:36:44 AM  
So, is federal reserve one of those things that is like sunlight to vampires for Libertarians? When you say it, they receed into the shadows and hiss menacingly at you?
 
2013-07-19 09:48:20 AM  
I'm not a fan of the positivist mantras, but with the Fed they really need to stick with friendly words.
 
2013-07-19 10:00:49 AM  

qorkfiend: If subby can present any information - actual data, not anecdotal "I know a guy that can't find a job" - that suggests otherwise, I'd like to hear it.


For every "I know a guy that can't find a job" post I'll counter with "My company can't fill positions fast enough" OR "Well if that guy would just get the right degree he would find a job"
 
2013-07-19 10:08:48 AM  

Free Radical: qorkfiend: If subby can present any information - actual data, not anecdotal "I know a guy that can't find a job" - that suggests otherwise, I'd like to hear it.

For every "I know a guy that can't find a job" post I'll counter with "My company can't fill positions fast enough" OR "Well if that guy would just get the right degree he would find a job"


The ECONOMY, in broad numbers terms, is growing, albeit rather slowly.  It was shown in a previous fark article a few months ago that those at the top are making modest gains, and their gains are being made at the expense of everyone below them: it's getting worse for the vast, vast majority of Americans.
 
2013-07-19 10:10:05 AM  
Record corporate profits for 10 years running, but we're still in a recession.


Riiiiight.
 
2013-07-19 10:20:18 AM  

Lexx: The ECONOMY, in broad numbers terms, is growing, albeit rather slowly. It was shown in a previous fark article a few months ago that those at the top are making modest gains, and their gains are being made at the expense of everyone below them: it's getting worse for the vast, vast majority of Americans.


To a thinking person, this is Data Point #80,790,842,698,498,577,609,760 against Trickle-Down being a sound economic theory, but maybe it's sound and just takes 40 years and 4 market busts to happen.
 
2013-07-19 10:21:23 AM  
Funny, my company I worked for last summer not only survived the recession, but expanded. The company I currently work for has done nothing but expand, they opened here in February, and are adding about a dozen employees every 2 weeks... On top of that,housing prices are recovering, what does subby see as wrong with the statement that the economy is expanding? Is he the other dude hanging out in Detroit with Eminem?
 
2013-07-19 10:23:11 AM  
The Fed boys are doing lines of coke up there.
Magical thinking can't keep their cash cow alive.

What a frigging gravy train scam they have running.
 
2013-07-19 10:24:16 AM  

Alphakronik: Record corporate profits for 10 years running, but we're still in a recession.


Riiiiight.


I still maintain that corporations are in no way people. Hell even if they were, they're a miniscule minority, and should not be used as the metric.
 
2013-07-19 10:29:53 AM  

qorkfiend: If subby can present any information - actual data, not anecdotal "I know a guy that can't find a job" - that suggests otherwise, I'd like to hear it.


I am skeptical, certainly some regions are doing better than others but since the Too Big Too Fail fiasco, the labor force has shrunk (sure retiring boomers are part of that but not the complete picture), wages have remained stagnant relative to inflation, the part-time service industry is adding most jobs, our social well-fare systems have increased enrollment by large, almost unbelievable percentages and nearly a quarter of Americans are considered to be living below the poverty line.

things on the ground don't seem to be jiving with what our great and fearless leaders are telling us.
 
2013-07-19 10:43:09 AM  

TrainingWheelsNeeded: qorkfiend: If subby can present any information - actual data, not anecdotal "I know a guy that can't find a job" - that suggests otherwise, I'd like to hear it.

I am skeptical, certainly some regions are doing better than others but since the Too Big Too Fail fiasco, the labor force has shrunk (sure retiring boomers are part of that but not the complete picture), wages have remained stagnant relative to inflation, the part-time service industry is adding most jobs, our social well-fare systems have increased enrollment by large, almost unbelievable percentages and nearly a quarter of Americans are considered to be living below the poverty line.

things on the ground don't seem to be jiving with what our great and fearless leaders are telling us.


Macro vs micro economics. The macro economic system isn't that bad right now and is slowly growing as they said. The micro economics of given local areas are having a great deal of pressure. That's why it seems to be going in different directions. It may seem odd but the measurements are different and that's why it comes up with different viewpoints on what most think are the same thing.
 
2013-07-19 10:58:53 AM  

Free Radical: qorkfiend: If subby can present any information - actual data, not anecdotal "I know a guy that can't find a job" - that suggests otherwise, I'd like to hear it.

For every "I know a guy that can't find a job" post I'll counter with "My company can't fill positions fast enough" OR "Well if that guy would just get the right degree he would find a job"


We're hiring, but what you need are a very particular set of skills; skills you have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make you a nightmare for difficult programming problems.
 
2013-07-19 11:12:29 AM  

meat0918: Free Radical: qorkfiend: If subby can present any information - actual data, not anecdotal "I know a guy that can't find a job" - that suggests otherwise, I'd like to hear it.

For every "I know a guy that can't find a job" post I'll counter with "My company can't fill positions fast enough" OR "Well if that guy would just get the right degree he would find a job"

We're hiring, but what you need are a very particular set of skills; skills you have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make you a nightmare for difficult programming problems.


It's not that companies can't find people to fill those high-ranking positions, it's just that they are typically getting by without doing so. And if they do eventually find just the right person to fill one of those positions, look at all the money they saved by waiting!

In the meantime, the older skilled folks keep retiring, the mid-level aren't getting promoted, and so the low-levels have nowhere to go. It's a chronic glut being created by business' stinginess, treating employees as expenses rather than investments.
 
2013-07-19 11:14:36 AM  
Subby might want to leave mommies basement and actually like, participate in the economy. Even in my crappy, rust belt, flyover town there are tons of blatantly obvious signs that things have been steadily cranking up and improving.

And if you own stocks or any other kind of similar investment, and actually pay attention, you would see it from another angle. And if you follow real estate, you would see it from yet another angle, as sales and prices are moving back up at a fairly brisk pace(got my home at the bottom of this, score!).

The people who are unhappiest? Middle class GOP whitebread in flyover land who Patriotically bought a 400k McMansion and matching Chevy Tahoe at the top of the bubble, and are pissed that they didn't get their chunk of Oil Money from the Bush Wars. After all, they patriotically went into huge debt to prop up the BushBubble.

So they latch onto Obamaphones, pissed that their black neighbor was able to get one too.
 
2013-07-19 11:16:20 AM  
Uncertainty about things like Fartbongocare has absolutely nothing to do with this.  Nope, nothing at all.  Everything in just fine.  Nobody is cutting full time jobs either in favor of part time jobs.   That has nothing to do with the mandate.
 
2013-07-19 11:19:08 AM  

Mikey1969: Funny, my company I worked for last summer not only survived the recession, but expanded. The company I currently work for has done nothing but expand, they opened here in February, and are adding about a dozen employees every 2 weeks... On top of that,housing prices are recovering, what does subby see as wrong with the statement that the economy is expanding? Is he the other dude hanging out in Detroit with Eminem?


I'm starting to see commercials from Real Estate agencies begging people to put their homes on the market. People are looking to buy because they see the interest rate creeping up and want to get in now, coupled with low inventory. Should be a nice little run-up in a sellers market.
 
2013-07-19 11:23:01 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: Uncertainty about things like Fartbongocare has absolutely nothing to do with this.  Nope, nothing at all.  Everything in just fine.  Nobody is cutting full time jobs either in favor of part time jobs.   That has nothing to do with the mandate.


Makes a lot more sense than pretending that it has nothing to do with the inequality of wealth distribution, and the inevitable depression that is bringing upon us.
 
2013-07-19 11:35:37 AM  
Economy is doing just fine here. I honestly don't know what everyone is complaining about. Of course, we never had much of a crash either.
 
2013-07-19 11:42:13 AM  
If anyone's willing to hike out to Long Island and be an office drone, my company's hiring.
 
2013-07-19 11:42:49 AM  

Smeggy Smurf: Uncertainty about things like Fartbongocare has absolutely nothing to do with this.  Nope, nothing at all.  Everything in just fine.  Nobody is cutting full time jobs either in favor of part time jobs.   That has nothing to do with the mandate.


Our free market capitalists heros were so concerned about Fartbongo's policies they intentionally crashed the entire system and had to be propped up by the Fed and Taxpayers to keep the entire house of cards afloat before he was even elected.  In fact, they still need Bernanke to provide Quantitative Easing pumping money into the "free market" system to prevent it from happening again, which is why we had a huge stock rally last week  when Bernanke promised to let our Free Market Capitalist Heros keep suckling off his teat.    But remember,  soshulism and big government is only evil and dangerous when it involves a brown skin father of two getting a cancer screening.
 
2013-07-19 12:08:49 PM  

wildcardjack: I'm not a fan of the positivist mantras, but with the Fed they really need to stick with friendly words.


Particularly since Wall Street is apparently populated entirely by people with the nervous disposition of a canary headed down the mine shaft.
 
2013-07-19 12:15:16 PM  

InmanRoshi: Our free market capitalists heros were so concerned about Fartbongo's policies they intentionally crashed the entire system and had to be propped up by the Fed and Taxpayers to keep the entire house of cards afloat before he was even elected


[ItsAConspiracy.jpg]
 
2013-07-19 12:31:17 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Uncertainty about things like Fartbongocare has absolutely nothing to do with this.  Nope, nothing at all.  Everything in just fine.  Nobody is cutting full time jobs either in favor of part time jobs.   That has nothing to do with the mandate.


The uncertainty comes from people who can't (or won't) read the law. It's been out there for a while; what's uncertain?

I'm going to guess that you're not one of the law readers if you think that replacing full time workers with part time workers gets you out of the mandate.
 
2013-07-19 12:51:25 PM  

Mikey1969: Funny, my company I worked for last summer not only survived the recession, but expanded. The company I currently work for has done nothing but expand, they opened here in February, and are adding about a dozen employees every 2 weeks... On top of that,housing prices are recovering, what does subby see as wrong with the statement that the economy is expanding? Is he the other dude hanging out in Detroit with Eminem?


Did you get a raise?
 
2013-07-19 12:53:53 PM  
Corporate profits are at a all time high, but wages have been stagnant for 20 years and full-time jobs are being sliced into part-time one to avoid paying healthcare.

Any average schmoe who thinks this they are actually getting ahead is a clueless tool.
 
2013-07-19 01:22:19 PM  

fatbear: Smeggy Smurf: Uncertainty about things like Fartbongocare has absolutely nothing to do with this.  Nope, nothing at all.  Everything in just fine.  Nobody is cutting full time jobs either in favor of part time jobs.   That has nothing to do with the mandate.

The uncertainty comes from people who can't (or won't) read the law. It's been out there for a while; what's uncertain?

I'm going to guess that you're not one of the law readers if you think that replacing full time workers with part time workers gets you out of the mandate.


When is it coming into play?  They just changed that.  Now when is it going into effect?  What are the costs really going to be?  Nobody on either side is playing straight with the facts.  When both sides are lying about it the whole thing needs to be scrapped and everybody involved taken out front and hung.

The next batch of politicians will be more honest.
 
2013-07-19 01:36:23 PM  
The economy IS growing a a modest rate.  Not enough rate to keep up with population growth, not in a way that gets more people jobs, not in any way meaningful or measurable to average joe on the street.  But the economy is growing!
 
2013-07-19 01:41:01 PM  
My section of the economy is growing at a better-than-average rate, after taking a big hit under the Bush recession.
 
2013-07-19 01:56:53 PM  

the_geek: The economy IS growing a a modest rate.  Not enough rate to keep up with population growth, not in a way that gets more people jobs, not in any way meaningful or measurable to average joe on the street.  But the economy is growing!


Except for all the ways it is measurable - U3 and U6 are both trending down, first-time jobless claims are trending down, number of jobs (even when population/workforce growth is factored in) is trending up, even wages are up (something like .4% this year, but growth is growth)...

And in your claimed home of FL, unemployment is down .8% this year (and government payrolls are down .1% over last year; in May, they were down .8% too. Doesn't that make you happy?).

It may not feel like the 5% growth you get when the tide rises underneath everyone (*coughmid90scough*), but it's certainly above the trough in 2009.
 
2013-07-19 01:58:44 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Uncertainty about things like Fartbongocare has absolutely nothing to do with this.  Nope, nothing at all.  Everything in just fine.  Nobody is cutting full time jobs either in favor of part time jobs.   That has nothing to do with the mandate.


Nope, it doesn't.  Glad you came around to reality.

Oh wait, you were trying to be sarcastic?  How sad for you.

LemSkroob: Mikey1969: Funny, my company I worked for last summer not only survived the recession, but expanded. The company I currently work for has done nothing but expand, they opened here in February, and are adding about a dozen employees every 2 weeks... On top of that,housing prices are recovering, what does subby see as wrong with the statement that the economy is expanding? Is he the other dude hanging out in Detroit with Eminem?

I'm starting to see commercials from Real Estate agencies begging people to put their homes on the market. People are looking to buy because they see the interest rate creeping up and want to get in now, coupled with low inventory. Should be a nice little run-up in a sellers market.


I had been planning on getting into the market for a house this fall, but that's been flushed down the drain because of this micro-bubble.  The wife and I are paying more to rent than what we'd pay for a mortgage on an equivalent house on a decent plot in a nice area of town.  However, rates are going up, spurring the market, which raises prices back up to ridiculous levels.  Just means that instead of buying this year, I'll be waiting another two or three.  Dammit Bernanke, I really wanted a bigger garage...
 
2013-07-19 02:13:46 PM  

Dr Dreidel: the_geek: The economy IS growing a a modest rate.  Not enough rate to keep up with population growth, not in a way that gets more people jobs, not in any way meaningful or measurable to average joe on the street.  But the economy is growing!

Except for all the ways it is measurable - U3 and U6 are both trending down, first-time jobless claims are trending down, number of jobs (even when population/workforce growth is factored in) is trending up, even wages are up (something like .4% this year, but growth is growth)...

And in your claimed home of FL, unemployment is down .8% this year (and government payrolls are down .1% over last year; in May, they were down .8% too. Doesn't that make you happy?).

It may not feel like the 5% growth you get when the tide rises underneath everyone (*coughmid90scough*), but it's certainly above the trough in 2009.


Isn't the vast majority of new jobs low-paying, service sector, and part time, while the vast majority of vanishing jobs are middle class?
 
2013-07-19 02:14:52 PM  

wildcardjack: I'm not a fan of the positivist mantras, but with the Fed they really need to stick with friendly words.


too many knees just waiting to jerk?
 
2013-07-19 02:17:43 PM  

Lexx: Isn't the vast majority of new jobs low-paying, service sector, and part time, while the vast majority of vanishing jobs are middle class?


Depends where you're looking, but that's also beyond the scope of what I'm replying to. OP claims you either can't measure the growth or it's nonexistent, which is false - you absolutely can.
 
2013-07-19 02:30:39 PM  
It's important to remember that a growing economy isn't necessarily good for everyone.  The economy can grow at the same time that poor people get poorer if the wealth gap keeps increasing.

/Not saying that's the case here, but it's aliens.
 
2013-07-19 03:38:07 PM  

ajgeek: I still maintain that corporations are in no way people. Hell even if they were, they're a miniscule minority, and should not be used as the metric.


Everyone knows that corporations are not in fact people but the whole point of the Romney quote is to suggest that a private entity should enjoy the benefits and protections of the law as any private citizen would - most notably the freedom to engage in free speech, the right to associate or be free in its effects unless presented with a warrant.

The idea is more that corporations arent engines of wealth and production which the government should be free to latch its tentacles to at any time, for any reason.
 
2013-07-19 04:11:53 PM  
Translated that means that their economy will keep growing modestly while we're all squeezed down to where we can't spit dust.
 
2013-07-19 04:26:03 PM  
By modest they mean worst recovery since the Great Depression.  Pretty modest actually.
 
2013-07-19 04:29:04 PM  

Mikey1969: Funny, my company I worked for last summer not only survived the recession, but expanded. The company I currently work for has done nothing but expand, they opened here in February, and are adding about a dozen employees every 2 weeks... On top of that,housing prices are recovering, what does subby see as wrong with the statement that the economy is expanding? Is he the other dude hanging out in Detroit with Eminem?


Because Obama.
/That explains everything, without any need to think or look at the data.
 
2013-07-19 04:53:18 PM  
On August 1st my company is announcing the fourth straight year of layoffs and yet every quarter, we get an email saying how well we're doing: profits up, business is growing, etc...

/I'm so confused
 
2013-07-19 05:13:43 PM  

Katolu: On August 1st my company is announcing the fourth straight year of layoffs and yet every quarter, we get an email saying how well we're doing: profits up, business is growing, etc...

/I'm so confused


I bet the executives are getting raises, too. Funny how many businesses follow this classic pattern of "screw the worker and reward the management", to their detriment. Sounds like it's time to jump ship.

\ Because of the link in your profile, I know I can take 29 5 year olds in a fight. Thanks for that.
 
2013-07-19 05:21:12 PM  

o5iiawah: ajgeek: I still maintain that corporations are in no way people. Hell even if they were, they're a miniscule minority, and should not be used as the metric.

Everyone knows that corporations are not in fact people but the whole point of the Romney quote is to suggest that a private entity should enjoy the benefits and protections of the law as any private citizen would - most notably the freedom to engage in free speech, the right to associate or be free in its effects unless presented with a warrant.

The idea is more that corporations arent engines of wealth and production which the government should be free to latch its tentacles to at any time, for any reason.


So they should receive all the benefits, but pay none of the burden? Because that's exactly what you said.
 
2013-07-19 05:22:22 PM  

Katolu: On August 1st my company is announcing the fourth straight year of layoffs and yet every quarter, we get an email saying how well we're doing: profits up, business is growing, etc...

/I'm so confused


Because every time they lay off a worker, it's money for the execs and the shareholders.

/learn to invest, and you learn how the economy really has no intererst in the worker
//the businesses that realize the worker and the customer are the same are the ones that do the best, but you'll never hear Wall Street tell you that
 
2013-07-19 05:27:19 PM  
The thing is, it is improving. It's just not improving for a lot of us. Companies have taken advantage of the economic shift to do quite a few things that improve their bottom lines, but not necessarily our bottom lines. Other articles have already covered some of those things - the slow death of the full-time employee as companies replace them with vendors, contractors, and part-time employees tag-teaming the same gig, for example.

The economy's great, if you're already rich. If you're middle-class, you better pick a side. If you're poor, too late - the economy's no longer your concern.
 
2013-07-19 06:12:20 PM  

Kuroshin: Smeggy Smurf: Uncertainty about things like Fartbongocare has absolutely nothing to do with this.  Nope, nothing at all.  Everything in just fine.  Nobody is cutting full time jobs either in favor of part time jobs.   That has nothing to do with the mandate.

Nope, it doesn't.  Glad you came around to reality.

Oh wait, you were trying to be sarcastic?  How sad for you.

LemSkroob: Mikey1969: Funny, my company I worked for last summer not only survived the recession, but expanded. The company I currently work for has done nothing but expand, they opened here in February, and are adding about a dozen employees every 2 weeks... On top of that,housing prices are recovering, what does subby see as wrong with the statement that the economy is expanding? Is he the other dude hanging out in Detroit with Eminem?

I'm starting to see commercials from Real Estate agencies begging people to put their homes on the market. People are looking to buy because they see the interest rate creeping up and want to get in now, coupled with low inventory. Should be a nice little run-up in a sellers market.

I had been planning on getting into the market for a house this fall, but that's been flushed down the drain because of this micro-bubble.  The wife and I are paying more to rent than what we'd pay for a mortgage on an equivalent house on a decent plot in a nice area of town.  However, rates are going up, spurring the market, which raises prices back up to ridiculous levels.  Just means that instead of buying this year, I'll be waiting another two or three.  Dammit Bernanke, I really wanted a bigger garage...


IMO, the bubble never "burst," but the balloon did deflate. There's more that needs to come, but yes, ATM there is some air being pumped back into the balloon.

Where I live, prices are still ASTRONOMICAL for the local economy (though some people in this country would kill to buy houses under $200,000); prices haven't dropped here as much as they dropped in other parts of the state or nation. I live in an area whose housing market prices are driven EXCLUSIVELY by out-of-state retirees (because residents know how sh*tty it is to live here), hence we have real estate agents who are more focused on the potential for a bigger commission than selling homes (I know a person who has been in the industry for over a decade, and just made her first big commission, and her employer is one of the worst when it comes to jacking prices up and sitting on properties).
 
2013-07-19 06:14:53 PM  

o5iiawah: Everyone knows that corporations are not in fact people but the whole point of the Romney quote is to suggest that a private entity should enjoy the benefits and protections of the law as any private citizen would - most notably the freedom to engage in free speech, the right to associate or be free in its effects unless presented with a warrant.

The idea is more that corporations arent engines of wealth and production which the government should be free to latch its tentacles to at any time, for any reason.


Yes, corporations deserve protections of the law as any private citizen.

And when corporations manipulate the economy, or negligently kill people, nobody deserves to be punished for it.
 
2013-07-19 06:25:09 PM  
If you looked at the economy as you would look at mathematical averages...

The mean is improving, and really will continue to tread water even if our overall economy takes another shiat.

The median and mode? Mehhh... maybe things have improved over a very short period of time, but the trend is still not where we need it to be. Increases in the minimum wage have perhaps been the only "good" thing in either regard, and I don't know how much it may have helped.
 
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