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16709 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jul 2013 at 12:44 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-18 01:54:00 PM  

nekom: Normally I'd say this is asinine, juvenile and disrespectful. In this case, come on he's practically BEGGING for this sort of thing.


WBC trolls people by saying shiat they don't believe, hoping to earn revenue from legal action.

This satanist group is also saying shiat they don't believe, hoping to troll the WBC.

Unfortunately the WBC doesn't actually believe in shait so, while funny, I doubt it will actually accomplish sufficient trolling.

/That being said, I laughed pretty hard at the whole "your dead mom is now gay and likely banished to hell" bit.  You may get some faux outrage there.
//Overall I give them a 6/10
 
2013-07-18 01:55:07 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: NightOwl2255: scubamage: YoOjo: Phelps is in the closet, no-one makes this much noise about anything without being it.

I wish it was that case. He's a civil lawyer by trade. His whole business is to get people so pissed they punch him, or that he gets carted off by police, and then he sues the bejeesus out of them.

Ain't 'Murika grand?

That's been debunked. They've made next to nothing from civil suites. They make their money as worker comp\personal injury lawyers for other people. They advertise all over Kansas.

I remember seeing a comment a while back from another farker who lived near them about that subject. He was saying that their protests get them approximately zero, but they still rake in the dough because while everyone in KS says they hate the WBC, when they need a lawyer they run to the Phelps law firm.


Ok, the is plausible.  I'd like to see proof as I am skeptical of this claim, but it is plausible.  No, I am not asking you to provide a site source.  I'll try to find out for myself.  I just hadn't seen this claim and it would be worth looking into.
 
2013-07-18 01:56:29 PM  
 
2013-07-18 01:56:49 PM  

D135: nekom: Normally I'd say this is asinine, juvenile and disrespectful. In this case, come on he's practically BEGGING for this sort of thing.

WBC trolls people by saying shiat they don't believe, hoping to earn revenue from legal action.

This satanist group is also saying shiat they don't believe, hoping to troll the WBC.

Unfortunately the WBC doesn't actually believe in shait so, while funny, I doubt it will actually accomplish sufficient trolling.

/That being said, I laughed pretty hard at the whole "your dead mom is now gay and likely banished to hell" bit.  You may get some faux outrage there.
//Overall I give them a 6/10


No.  They really do hate people.  They have made very little on any lawsuit or settlements.  Let's not excuse their hate and hypocrisy with ignorance.
 
2013-07-18 02:01:27 PM  

scubamage: LaVey Satanism isn't really about Satan per se, it's more about saying to hell with organized religion and social conformity.


That doesn't matter. Anton LaVey formed the Church of Satan, and the adherents to that chuch are correctly called Satanists. It's irrelevant that they're atheists. These people do exist. I'm sure that there are some people out there that actually worship Satan as well.
 
2013-07-18 02:02:31 PM  

nekom: Also, I don't know who originally said it, I believe it was a Farker, but Phelps' funeral is going to look like freaking burning man.


Nobody has seen Phred in quite a while... I wonder if he's even still alive.  Wouldn't surprise me to find out that he died a while ago and the family buried him somewhere on their compound.  That's illegal and would be grounds for a search warrant, and then authorities find... who knows what.  A stash of guns, a gay torture/sex dungeon, child porn, Phred's mummified remains posed on an alter in some kind of weird ancestor-worship shrine?  All the above?

Anyway, that's my favorite daydream-de-jour.
 
2013-07-18 02:05:47 PM  

Fano: semiotix: YoOjo: Phelps is in the closet, no-one makes this much noise about anything without being it.

I actually don't think so. It's (seriously) not the only reason people go full-Phelps-homophobe, and I'd just as soon believe I don't share any urges with him whatsoever.

Yeah, I find it a dumb insult. it's not like Klan members secretly wish they were black. they're just assholes.



Now now, don't be too rash.

Being the little-dicked people they are, maybe part of the KKK wants part of themselves to be black anyway. Thats why they act like big dicks? Or did I just circle myself down the drain again?

Anyway, put me down for a threesome with the lesbians.
 
2013-07-18 02:06:03 PM  

scubamage: It's actually a pretty neat take on religion if you can get past some of the whackadoodles who are involved with it.


I wouldn't go that far. LaVey preached that it was okay to steal from others. I think he was pretty nonchalant about murder as well.
 
2013-07-18 02:07:35 PM  

Magnus: They are NOT making money off this "thing" of theirs. They really believe it. That's worse than doing it for money.


I'm actually not sure which is worse.
 
2013-07-18 02:12:38 PM  

Z-clipped: Magnus: They are NOT making money off this "thing" of theirs. They really believe it. That's worse than doing it for money.

I'm actually not sure which is worse.


I am.  But, that's just my opinion.
 
2013-07-18 02:13:25 PM  

dabbletech: scubamage: YoOjo: Phelps is in the closet, no-one makes this much noise about anything without being it.

I wish it was that case. He's a civil lawyer by trade. His whole business is to get people so pissed they punch him, or that he gets carted off by police, and then he sues the bejeesus out of them.

Ain't 'Murika grand?


How often has he done this successfully?



On and off for the last couple of decades.
 
2013-07-18 02:17:03 PM  
No.  They really do hate people.  They have made very little on any lawsuit or settlements.  Let's not excuse their hate and hypocrisy with ignorance.


Wrong.

They are professional trolls, in the truest sense of the word. Any lack of success at their lawsuits only speaks to their lack of legal expertise.
Don't let naivete cloud your judgement and fall into their trap.They are to be shrugged at and ignored.
 
2013-07-18 02:19:22 PM  
Those girls look sunburned. I think the summer break crowd on the Gulf got loaded and decided to have some fun on their way home.
 
2013-07-18 02:19:29 PM  
Wow. Just wow.
 
2013-07-18 02:20:08 PM  

YoOjo: Phelps is in the closet, no-one makes this much noise about anything without being it.


for example:

: encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-07-18 02:24:20 PM  
ehh...it's more like "moderate-high trolling."  Still kinda funny.  In a douchebag-y kind of way...  Kind of like when you draw dicks on the face of your passed-out frat bro who had 1 Jaeger-bomb too many.
 
2013-07-18 02:24:45 PM  
Phelps has done more for gay rights in his lifetime than the efforts of most gay people and their supporters combined.

/irony at its best.
 
2013-07-18 02:26:59 PM  

hej: oh_please: All these people are doing is lowering themselves to the WBC's level, that's just wrong.

Actually, they're also entertaining me.


No, they're really AWs, just like Phelps and his crew. They may entertain you, but they suck, because they're not doing what's right.
 
2013-07-18 02:29:06 PM  
Phelps is in the closet, no-one makes this much noise about anything without being it.


Is this why pedophilia gets people so mad?
Hooray for pop psychology!
 
2013-07-18 02:29:28 PM  

dabbletech: A Terrible Human: I submitted this yesterday with headline 2 words longer. Damn you subs. :p

Well, that'll teach


Haha I even left out the word a.
 
2013-07-18 02:31:33 PM  
Bah. this whole desecration of gravestones is bad, bad, juuju.  I have to give one and only one shout-out to the Church of Satan.  Well done boys and girls.  We'll see who's High Priest and who is High Priestess in a few years.  I'll be watching you.

/Pagan, holds no office, nor intends to.
 
2013-07-18 02:32:15 PM  

Fano: I find it a dumb insult. it's not like Klan members secretly wish they were black. they're just assholes.


I don't know. It seems difficult to argue "homosexuality is a choice" if you can't see yourself choosing it. (Though many of these folks are also good at compartmentalizing, so I could be off base).

My pet theory: if you're growing up in a fundamentalist family/social circle and have gay/bi stirrings, you certainly can't talk about it, and so you might reasonably assume that all men feel the way you do. From there it's not a big leap to "homosexuality must be stigmatized, or society will collapse as all men give up women."
 
2013-07-18 02:33:06 PM  
I dunno. It seems pretty clear that these people exist only to troll the WBC.

I don't think that hey sit around debating "What would Satan want?" if at all.

I DO think, on the other hand, that they spend tons of time and energy discussing "What can we do to maximize the likelihood of causing Fred to have a seizure?".

On this mother's grave?

Also, remember these are the people who grabbed (and continue to use) westboro-baptist.com.

Whatever else they do, and whatever the perceived value of trolling WBC, it's obviously what they've set themselves to do, and you have to admire their dedication to the task.
 
2013-07-18 02:35:16 PM  

pedobearapproved: Z-clipped: Hobodeluxe: yeah stooping to their level doesn't make you look good.

They're Satanists.  I don't think "looking good" is high on their list of priorities. I mean, haven't these guys pretty much been trolling christians since the the Enlightenment?

There are no such things as actual satanists christians. It's just a name people throw out to try and get attention.


FTFY
 
2013-07-18 02:35:57 PM  

Wall_of_Doodoo: I actually LOL'd at the part about Fred Phelp's mom now being gay in the afterlife. Now that's how you do silly.


Pretty sure the Mormons pioneered that move.
 
2013-07-18 02:35:59 PM  

Mikey1969: Z-clipped: Hobodeluxe: yeah stooping to their level doesn't make you look good.

They're Satanists.  I don't think "looking good" is high on their list of priorities. I mean, haven't these guys pretty much been trolling christians since the the Enlightenment?

No, really just 1966... Anton LaVey really just made the whole "satanist" thing up...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_LaVey#Beginnings_as_a_Satanist


Difference between satanist and Satanist? I assume there are other worshipers of Satan than members of the Church Of Satan(tm).
 
2013-07-18 02:36:59 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: No, it's not maximum trolling.  WBC still gets the publicity out of it, which is what they want.  This 'Satanic Temple' is being played for fools.


Which really, we all already knew.  You really don't go so far over the counter-culture cliff without being slightly... special.
 
2013-07-18 02:37:20 PM  

Magnus: Z-clipped: Magnus: They are NOT making money off this "thing" of theirs. They really believe it. That's worse than doing it for money.

I'm actually not sure which is worse.

I am.  But, that's just my opinion.


I think that you have to be mentally ill to get right and wrong that thoroughly mixed up.  And I tend to have a degree of pity for people who are truly sick.  Not enough that I forgive their behavior mind you, but enough that I don't get as angry about it.

I mean, if they weren't so litigious and big in the media... if people shunned them as thoroughly as they should and Phelps were so poor that he was forgoing meals in order to stage his protests... wouldn't you feel less angry, and more "disgusted pity" for him?  Picture Phelps with scurvy and three teeth, ranting faithfully to nobody on a soapbox in Bumfark, Kansas, and then picture him with gold teeth and a private jet chuckling to himself that "everybody bought the act" while his cause is picked up and carried on by thousands of brainwashed fundies.   One of those scenarios makes me a lot angrier than the other.
 
2013-07-18 02:38:59 PM  

Lando Lincoln: scubamage: It's actually a pretty neat take on religion if you can get past some of the whackadoodles who are involved with it.

I wouldn't go that far. LaVey preached that it was okay to steal from others. I think he was pretty nonchalant about murder as well.


point me in a direction to thefts that La Vey or his church was involved in, or to any suspected Church of Satan murders.

/difficulty - you can't

//you are not accurate.  La Vey didn't "preach".  he held the occasional "black mass" mostly for media attention.  what he espoused was "do not turn the other cheek, give back to others what you receive".  in other words, if someone is an ass to you...  be an ass right back unless it pleases you to not.
 
2013-07-18 02:39:45 PM  

frepnog: give those lesbian chicks a couple years.  one will be married to a man, the other will likely be engrossed heavily in Christianity.  the gay dudes will likely just still be gay dudes.


Maybe you should go cure them with your magic penis.
 
2013-07-18 02:40:26 PM  

Gaseous Anomaly: My pet theory: if you're growing up in a fundamentalist family/social circle and have gay/bi stirrings, you certainly can't talk about it, and so you might reasonably assume that all men feel the way you do. From there it's not a big leap to "homosexuality must be stigmatized, or society will collapse as all men give up women."


and, logically, they are threfore saying explicitly that the only thing keeping they themselves from chugging cock like beer at a kegger is a law.  "The Bible says it is bad; but unless the US Code also says that, I have no choice but the assault men to make them stick their dick in my ass."
 
2013-07-18 02:40:54 PM  

Gaseous Anomaly: Difference between satanist and Satanist? I assume there are other worshipers of Satan than members of the Church Of Satan(tm).


Wiki agrees.
 
2013-07-18 02:42:44 PM  

doubled99: They are professional trolls, in the truest sense of the word. Any lack of success at their lawsuits only speaks to their lack of legal expertise.


Except for that whole Westboro Baptist Church Wins Supreme Court Appeal Over Funeral Protests thing, right?
 
2013-07-18 02:43:37 PM  

xanadian: ehh...it's more like "moderate-high trolling."  Still kinda funny.  In a douchebag-y kind of way...  Kind of like when you draw dicks on the face of your passed-out frat bro who had 1 Jaeger-bomb too many.


You can't troll a master troll. He knows all the moves. Fred Phelps isn't bothered by this.

But it was still pretty funny.

[Scene opens in Heaven, an all-white modestly decorated studio apartment]
[Cathy Johnson, Fred Phelp's mom, sits in a chair watching television]
[there is a knock on the door]
[Cathy opens the door, and an angel with a clip board walks in]

Angel: "I'm sorry, Mrs. Johnson, but you are being sent down to Hell now."
Cathy: "What!? But why?"
Angel: "Well, you see...there was a certain Satanic ritual performed over your grave and..."
Cathy: "Satanists?! What kind of ritual?!"
Angel: "Well...have you noticed that you have been sexually attracted to women in the past few hours?"
Cathy: "What?! No!"
Angel: "It might take a few hours for the ritual to take full effect. Regardless...we have a strict policy here in Heaven - NO HOMOSEXUALS. I'm sorry, but the Satanists have turned you gay. There's nothing that we can do."
Cathy: "This is ridiculous! Why on Earth would Satanists..."
Angel: "...yes, I think you know why."
Cathy: "Haven't I suffered in purgatory long enough for my sins of mothering Freddy? And now this?"
Angel: "Yes, we all wish that you had been a better mother. Alas. Anyhow...please pack up your personal belongings. There will be a car to pick you up in a half hour."
 
2013-07-18 02:43:52 PM  

frepnog: Lando Lincoln: scubamage: It's actually a pretty neat take on religion if you can get past some of the whackadoodles who are involved with it.

I wouldn't go that far. LaVey preached that it was okay to steal from others. I think he was pretty nonchalant about murder as well.

point me in a direction to thefts that La Vey or his church was involved in, or to any suspected Church of Satan murders.

/difficulty - you can't

//you are not accurate.  La Vey didn't "preach".  he held the occasional "black mass" mostly for media attention.  what he espoused was "do not turn the other cheek, give back to others what you receive".  in other words, if someone is an ass to you...  be an ass right back unless it pleases you to not.


Correct. Most of the negative connotations against the church came from the "Satanic Panic" from the 1970's to the 1980's, where the church was accused of hosting tons of criminal activities. These were later dismissed by the feds when they actually investigated them. Stealing goes directly against the Church's teachings.

Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.When in another's lair, show them respect or else do not go there.If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.Do not harm little children.Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they don't stop, destroy them.
 
2013-07-18 02:44:50 PM  
Sorry about the formatting getting screwed up on that last one, fark decided to ignore the numbered list.
 
2013-07-18 02:46:28 PM  

ciberido: frepnog: give those lesbian chicks a couple years.  one will be married to a man, the other will likely be engrossed heavily in Christianity.  the gay dudes will likely just still be gay dudes.

Maybe you should go cure them with your magic penis.


maybe I should stop being right about it.

/I keep calling it.  Anne Heche.  Amber Heard. quite a few others.  gay men seem to stay gay.  young attractive "gay" women often tend to stop being gay.  wonder why that is?  I believe that there are gay women out there, yes. I have nothing against gay people.  It just seems that there are quite a few lesbians out there that stop being lesbian, and public lesbians even more so.

//unless they are Rosie.  heh.
 
2013-07-18 02:48:21 PM  

scubamage: Correct. Most of the negative connotations against the church came from the "Satanic Panic" from the 1970's to the 1980's, where the church was accused of hosting tons of criminal activities. These were later dismissed by the feds when they actually investigated them. Stealing goes directly against the Church's teachings.


On the other hand, Satanists love Ayn Rand's shtick... so that gives one some insight into their level of philosophical maturity.
 
2013-07-18 02:49:54 PM  

scubamage: Sorry about the formatting getting screwed up on that last one, fark decided to ignore the numbered list.


That looks a lot like IRL Sith philosophy. That's kind of fascinating.

/Having a bit of a nerdy summer
//The best kind of summer
 
2013-07-18 02:50:09 PM  

Z-clipped: Magnus: Z-clipped: Magnus: They are NOT making money off this "thing" of theirs. They really believe it. That's worse than doing it for money.

I'm actually not sure which is worse.

I am.  But, that's just my opinion.

I think that you have to be mentally ill to get right and wrong that thoroughly mixed up.  And I tend to have a degree of pity for people who are truly sick.  Not enough that I forgive their behavior mind you, but enough that I don't get as angry about it.

I mean, if they weren't so litigious and big in the media... if people shunned them as thoroughly as they should and Phelps were so poor that he was forgoing meals in order to stage his protests... wouldn't you feel less angry, and more "disgusted pity" for him?  Picture Phelps with scurvy and three teeth, ranting faithfully to nobody on a soapbox in Bumfark, Kansas, and then picture him with gold teeth and a private jet chuckling to himself that "everybody bought the act" while his cause is picked up and carried on by thousands of brainwashed fundies.   One of those scenarios makes me a lot angrier than the other.


OK, but one is basically as far from the truth as the other. It's basically a small family cult. Read the interviews and such by the members that have left sometime.
 
2013-07-18 02:51:42 PM  

frepnog: //you are not accurate.  La Vey didn't "preach".  he held the occasional "black mass" mostly for media attention.  what he espoused was "do not turn the other cheek, give back to others what you receive".  in other words, if someone is an ass to you...  be an ass right back unless it pleases you to not.


LaVey was a big proponent of the "might is right" philosophy. If someone is too weak to stop you from taking what is theirs, then they are the ones at fault. It's primal, but it's the way nature works.
 
2013-07-18 02:52:08 PM  

jakomo002: I'm sure Satan probably doesn't like the gheys.

Other than the "sin" of sodomy, they're usually super nice people, which probably pisses him off.


Actually, given Satan's M.O. as the great deceiver, it would be fine. We wants damned souls, however it comes about. If you can live a life of appearing to be good and entice others into your ways just to get them to commit that *one* act that condemns them for eternity, perfect. So many depictions of Satan show him as a beast and monster. More likely he would be the most attractive, likable, seducer ever.

To put it another way, he is lawful evil with pure charisma stats. He will use the rules and the system to corrupt and break you so that those same rules make you his.

/Not endorsing the point of view, but clarifying the concept of Satan/Lucifer.
 
2013-07-18 02:53:01 PM  

Magnus: D135: nekom: Normally I'd say this is asinine, juvenile and disrespectful. In this case, come on he's practically BEGGING for this sort of thing.

WBC trolls people by saying shiat they don't believe, hoping to earn revenue from legal action.

This satanist group is also saying shiat they don't believe, hoping to troll the WBC.

Unfortunately the WBC doesn't actually believe in shait so, while funny, I doubt it will actually accomplish sufficient trolling.

/That being said, I laughed pretty hard at the whole "your dead mom is now gay and likely banished to hell" bit.  You may get some faux outrage there.
//Overall I give them a 6/10

No.  They really do hate people.  They have made very little on any lawsuit or settlements.  Let's not excuse their hate and hypocrisy with ignorance.


Can't it be both? Maybe they really do hate people, and also make a bunch of money off of their lawsuits. Now I'm curious though.
 
2013-07-18 02:53:26 PM  

PsiChick: scubamage: Sorry about the formatting getting screwed up on that last one, fark decided to ignore the numbered list.

That looks a lot like IRL Sith philosophy. That's kind of fascinating.

/Having a bit of a nerdy summer
//The best kind of summer


Given the timeline and geographical proximity, it wouldn't surprise me if George Lucas used it to help develop his mythology. I'll have to check out the IRL Sith stuff!
 
2013-07-18 02:53:37 PM  

scubamage: frepnog: Lando Lincoln: scubamage: It's actually a pretty neat take on religion if you can get past some of the whackadoodles who are involved with it.

I wouldn't go that far. LaVey preached that it was okay to steal from others. I think he was pretty nonchalant about murder as well.

point me in a direction to thefts that La Vey or his church was involved in, or to any suspected Church of Satan murders.

/difficulty - you can't

//you are not accurate.  La Vey didn't "preach".  he held the occasional "black mass" mostly for media attention.  what he espoused was "do not turn the other cheek, give back to others what you receive".  in other words, if someone is an ass to you...  be an ass right back unless it pleases you to not.

Correct. Most of the negative connotations against the church came from the "Satanic Panic" from the 1970's to the 1980's, where the church was accused of hosting tons of criminal activities. These were later dismissed by the feds when they actually investigated them. Stealing goes directly against the Church's teachings.

Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.When in another's lair, show them respect or else do not go there.If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.Do not harm little children.Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they don't stop ...


kinda funny how if taken by themselves the satanic statements are pretty good advice.
 
2013-07-18 02:59:25 PM  

Leo Bloom's Freakout: jakomo002: I'm sure Satan probably doesn't like the gheys.

Other than the "sin" of sodomy, they're usually super nice people, which probably pisses him off.

Actually, given Satan's M.O. as the great deceiver, it would be fine. We wants damned souls, however it comes about. If you can live a life of appearing to be good and entice others into your ways just to get them to commit that *one* act that condemns them for eternity, perfect. So many depictions of Satan show him as a beast and monster. More likely he would be the most attractive, likable, seducer ever.

To put it another way, he is lawful evil with pure charisma stats. He will use the rules and the system to corrupt and break you so that those same rules make you his.

/Not endorsing the point of view, but clarifying the concept of Satan/Lucifer.


and that has dick-all to do with La Veyan Satanism.  La Veyan Satanism basically says that there ARE no "deities".  We are our OWN gods.  He called it Satanism to be shocking.  It is really just humanism with some dogma attached because as he said, "humans like dogma".
 
2013-07-18 03:00:51 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: So where does the horned head gear come in ... maybe I don't need to know.


images2.wikia.nocookie.net

Well not just *anyone* can pronounce a couple married. You need to be a priest, judge, ship captian or puny god to do that.
 
2013-07-18 03:01:33 PM  

Lando Lincoln: frepnog: //you are not accurate.  La Vey didn't "preach".  he held the occasional "black mass" mostly for media attention.  what he espoused was "do not turn the other cheek, give back to others what you receive".  in other words, if someone is an ass to you...  be an ass right back unless it pleases you to not.

LaVey was a big proponent of the "might is right" philosophy. If someone is too weak to stop you from taking what is theirs, then they are the ones at fault. It's primal, but it's the way nature works.


heh.  that is basically true.  it didn't mean "use Satanism as an excuse to go around stealing" however.

/honestly i figure it had more to do with pussy than anything else.
 
2013-07-18 03:02:39 PM  

Fireproof: OK, but one is basically as far from the truth as the other. It's basically a small family cult. Read the interviews and such by the members that have left sometime.


Oh no doubt.  I'm just illustrating that there's a reason we put contract killers to death, but we lock up people like John Schrank in psych wards and look at them through a small window forever.
 
2013-07-18 03:04:44 PM  
It's a art.
 
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