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(New York Daily News)   How badly do you have to screw up to be a Democrat listed on a liberal watchdog group's list of the nation's worst governors? Let's ask Andrew Cuomo   ( nydailynews.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Citizens for Responsibility, Andrew Cuomo, Democrats, morals, watchdog journalism  
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1118 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Jul 2013 at 10:29 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



88 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2013-07-18 10:30:45 AM  
Though when he runs for president, we'll be assured he's the most liberal lib that has ever libbed. By the completely liberal media, of course.
 
2013-07-18 10:31:52 AM  
Huh. I actually haven't heard that much bad about him. He's one of a handful of governors to get tighter gun regs passed.
 
2013-07-18 10:32:54 AM  
Quick, send some lube to Maine's gov.
 
2013-07-18 10:33:24 AM  
This is how you concern troll.

"Hey, so the gov. of New York who pushed through gay marriage and strict gun control measures, two big liberal issues the last two years, is horrible at transparency. As fellow liberals, you should hate this man now."
 
2013-07-18 10:37:26 AM  
Democrats and Liberals have long been at odds over transparency.
 
2013-07-18 10:38:29 AM  
Democrat = center right, by and large.  Actual liberals have relatively little use for them other than stopping the outright destructive policies of the republicans.  Obama is center right.  Reid is center right.  Pelosi and clinton could be argued to have been plain-ol-center, but it's questionable.
 
2013-07-18 10:41:57 AM  

GoldSpider: Democrats and Liberals have long been at odds over transparency.


ikanreed: Democrat = center right, by and large.  Actual liberals have relatively little use for them other than stopping the outright destructive policies of the republicans.  Obama is center right.  Reid is center right.  Pelosi and clinton could be argued to have been plain-ol-center, but it's questionable.


Unpossible! I have been repeatedly assured that Obama, Pelosi, and Reid are left-wing radicals hell bent on destroying the very fabric of this once great Christian nation! Obviously you are employing Lame Stream MSM government-controlled liberal media talking points.
 
2013-07-18 10:45:37 AM  

ikanreed: Pelosi and clinton could be argued to have been plain-ol-center


Which Clinton?
 
2013-07-18 10:45:51 AM  
TL;DR
 
2013-07-18 10:46:05 AM  

ikanreed: Democrat = center right, by and large.  Actual liberals have relatively little use for them other than stopping the outright destructive policies of the republicans.  Obama is center right.  Reid is center right.  Pelosi and clinton could be argued to have been plain-ol-center, but it's questionable.


In no way is Andrew Cuomo "center-right"
 
2013-07-18 10:48:39 AM  
Amateur! If you are really corrupt you have donors giving you Rolex watches and paying the catering bill at your daughter's wedding.
 
2013-07-18 10:59:45 AM  
How badly do you have to screw up to be seen as the Republicans best chance in 2016 and then 8 months later have the Republicans try and recall you despite there being no law to recall you?
 
2013-07-18 11:01:22 AM  
How bad is your world view when you can't realize liberals don't have to be lemmings just because conservatives are?
 
2013-07-18 11:15:56 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: ikanreed: Democrat = center right, by and large.  Actual liberals have relatively little use for them other than stopping the outright destructive policies of the republicans.  Obama is center right.  Reid is center right.  Pelosi and clinton could be argued to have been plain-ol-center, but it's questionable.

In no way is Andrew Cuomo "center-right"


He wants to crush unions. And as a NY politician, I'm sure he wants to privatize Social Security as well.

Conservatism isn't just about hating gays and shooting black teenagers, ya know.
 
2013-07-18 11:17:40 AM  

ikanreed: Democrat = center right, by and large.


Not in New York.

A moderate Republican in NY would be a mainstream Democrat most other places. NY Democrats are reliably very liberal. Whatever Sheldon Silver wants, Sheldon Silver gets and woe to any Democrat who stands in his way...but since even that's not sufficiently berserkly spendthrift for certain sectors of New York, there's also a Give The Unions Whatever The Fark They Demand Working Families Party.
 
2013-07-18 11:18:56 AM  
Wendy's Chili: He wants to crush unions. And as a NY politician, I'm sure he wants to privatize Social Security as well.

[citation needed]
 
2013-07-18 11:20:26 AM  

Wendy's Chili: He wants to crush unions.


The poor dears. They'll have to scrape by on their six-figure tax-free pensions once Cuomo is through with them. Won't somebody think of the 43-year-old retired suburban cops?
 
2013-07-18 11:21:26 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Wendy's Chili: He wants to crush unions. And as a NY politician, I'm sure he wants to privatize Social Security as well.

[citation needed]


It doesn't matter. The Clinton machine is slowly turning. Expect a few dozen of these type stories in the coming two years about possible 2016 candidates.
 
2013-07-18 11:24:56 AM  

WTF Indeed: cameroncrazy1984: Wendy's Chili: He wants to crush unions. And as a NY politician, I'm sure he wants to privatize Social Security as well.

[citation needed]

It doesn't matter. The Clinton machine is slowly turning. Expect a few dozen of these type stories in the coming two years about possible 2016 candidates.


How is this connected to the Clinton machine?
 
2013-07-18 11:27:02 AM  

Lord_Baull: How bad is your world view when you can't realize liberals don't have to be lemmings just because conservatives are?


It's just classic projection. Garden-variety psychological phenomena.
 
2013-07-18 11:32:02 AM  

Hickory-smoked: Lord_Baull: How bad is your world view when you can't realize liberals don't have to be lemmings just because conservatives are?

It's just classic projection. Garden-variety psychological phenomena.



Are you referring to my post or the subby's headline?
 
2013-07-18 11:32:06 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Wendy's Chili: He wants to crush unions. And as a NY politician, I'm sure he wants to privatize Social Security as well.

[citation needed]


Cuomo Vows Offensive Against Labor Unions

A quick googling didn't turn up any public stances taken on SS, but there was this.
 
2013-07-18 11:34:36 AM  

ikanreed: Democrat = center right, by and large.  Actual liberals have relatively little use for them other than stopping the outright destructive policies of the republicans.  Obama is center right.  Reid is center right.  Pelosi and clinton could be argued to have been plain-ol-center, but it's questionable.


They're "center-right" if you define outright Soviet-style socialism as the "center" - otherwise, you're COMPLETELY off-base and wrong.
 
2013-07-18 11:34:41 AM  

WTF Indeed: cameroncrazy1984: Wendy's Chili: He wants to crush unions. And as a NY politician, I'm sure he wants to privatize Social Security as well.

[citation needed]

It doesn't matter. The Clinton machine is slowly turning. Expect a few dozen of these type stories in the coming two years about possible 2016 candidates.


Are you implying that I'm shilling for Clinton? IMO, she, Cuomo, and Bloomberg are birds of a feather: gay-friendly bankocrats.
 
2013-07-18 11:36:21 AM  

tallguywithglasseson: ikanreed: Pelosi and clinton could be argued to have been plain-ol-center

Which Clinton?


I'm sorry, I meant Bill.  Hilary was only a senator and sec-state, important, but not representational of the party.
 
2013-07-18 11:37:48 AM  
Look up feckless in the dictionary and you'll find a picture of Andrew Cuomo's ugly mug. The price of gay marriage and mediocre gun control was everything else the Republicans wanted, and making sure that Jeff Klein didn't get prosecuted for defrauding the state through the STAR property tax rebate program. Every state comptroller has said that the program is riddled with fraud and impossible to police in its current form, but Cuomo let it be restarted because otherwise Klein would have rejoined the Democratic caucus and ruined Cuomo's buddy-buddy relationship with the Senate Republicans. We're talking conservatively tens of millions of dollars per year in open fraud.

On top of that, he talked a big game about nonpartisan redistricting, but caved as soon as Senate Republicans told him that making sure New York City voters got equal representation in the Senate would permanently cost Senate Republicans their majority. So instead every New York City vote is worth 7% less than an upstate vote, despite Cuomo promising again and again he would veto any such map.

He's a terrible governor and the state will be better off the second he's gone.
 
2013-07-18 11:39:12 AM  

ikanreed: tallguywithglasseson: ikanreed: Pelosi and clinton could be argued to have been plain-ol-center

Which Clinton?

I'm sorry, I meant Bill.  Hilary was only a senator and sec-state, important, but not representational of the party.


You think Clinton was to the left of Obama?

William Jefferson "NAFTAwelfarereformWTOfinancialderegulation" Clinton?
 
2013-07-18 11:41:42 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: How is this connected to the Clinton machine?



Wendy's Chili: Are you implying that I'm shilling for Clinton? IMO, she, Cuomo, and Bloomberg are birds of a feather: gay-friendly bankocrats.


Politics Lesson for Today:

Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics was founded by Melanie Sloan, who served on many Congressional committees during the Clinton Administration, ending as an Asst. US Attorney from 1998-2003.

Andrew Cuomo is considered a strong moderate candidate for President in 2016 and would be a serious challenge to Hillary in the Northeast.
 
2013-07-18 11:41:44 AM  
Hey, he voluntarily sleeps with Sandra Lee. Obviously, there's something very very wrong with him.
 
2013-07-18 11:43:09 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Though when he runs for president, we'll be assured he's the most liberal lib that has ever libbed. By the completely liberal media, of course.


He đỉdnt get slammed for not being liberal. He got slammed for lack of transparency.
 
2013-07-18 11:46:09 AM  

Wendy's Chili: cameroncrazy1984: Wendy's Chili: He wants to crush unions. And as a NY politician, I'm sure he wants to privatize Social Security as well.

[citation needed]

Cuomo Vows Offensive Against Labor Unions

A quick googling didn't turn up any public stances taken on SS, but there was this.


That's an interview from 2010. What has he actually done in the 2 years he's been in office? I live in the state and I haven't seen anything.
 
2013-07-18 11:47:52 AM  

WTF Indeed: cameroncrazy1984: How is this connected to the Clinton machine?


Wendy's Chili: Are you implying that I'm shilling for Clinton? IMO, she, Cuomo, and Bloomberg are birds of a feather: gay-friendly bankocrats.

Politics Lesson for Today:

Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics was founded by Melanie Sloan, who served on many Congressional committees during the Clinton Administration, ending as an Asst. US Attorney from 1998-2003.

Andrew Cuomo is considered a strong moderate candidate for President in 2016 and would be a serious challenge to Hillary in the Northeast.


slurmed.com

If Clinton does face a challenge, it's not going to be from someone who is ideologically identical to her.

/O'Malley '16!
 
2013-07-18 11:48:36 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: WTF Indeed: cameroncrazy1984: Wendy's Chili: He wants to crush unions. And as a NY politician, I'm sure he wants to privatize Social Security as well.

[citation needed]

It doesn't matter. The Clinton machine is slowly turning. Expect a few dozen of these type stories in the coming two years about possible 2016 candidates.

How is this connected to the Clinton machine?


The same way the Jews control the media.
 
2013-07-18 11:50:14 AM  

Wendy's Chili: WTF Indeed: cameroncrazy1984: Wendy's Chili: He wants to crush unions. And as a NY politician, I'm sure he wants to privatize Social Security as well.

[citation needed]

It doesn't matter. The Clinton machine is slowly turning. Expect a few dozen of these type stories in the coming two years about possible 2016 candidates.

Are you implying that I'm shilling for Clinton? IMO, she, Cuomo, and Bloomberg are birds of a feather: gay-friendly bankocrats.


I like that term.

If gays can get legally married, more gays will have weddings.  Gays are fabulous.  Their weddings will be more likely to be fabulous.  Fabulous costs money.  Banks loan money.  Banks like gay marriage.  Democrats like gay marriage.  Bankocrats.
 
2013-07-18 11:52:09 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Wendy's Chili: cameroncrazy1984: Wendy's Chili: He wants to crush unions. And as a NY politician, I'm sure he wants to privatize Social Security as well.

[citation needed]

Cuomo Vows Offensive Against Labor Unions

A quick googling didn't turn up any public stances taken on SS, but there was this.

That's an interview from 2010. What has he actually done in the 2 years he's been in office? I live in the state and I haven't seen anything.


Pensions, delegate lists, charter schools, blah blah blah... Do your own homework.
 
2013-07-18 11:52:10 AM  

Wendy's Chili: If Clinton does face a challenge, it's not going to be from someone who is ideologically identical to her.

/O'Malley '16!


Clinton faced a challenged from someone ideologically identical to her in 2008. How did that go for her?
 
2013-07-18 11:53:38 AM  

Xanadone: Hey, he voluntarily sleeps with Sandra Lee. Obviously, there's something very very wrong with him.


Why did I read that as Sara Lee?
 
2013-07-18 11:56:07 AM  

WTF Indeed: Wendy's Chili: If Clinton does face a challenge, it's not going to be from someone who is ideologically identical to her.

/O'Malley '16!

Clinton faced a challenged from someone ideologically identical to her in 2008. How did that go for her?


1) Clinton is a much stronger candidate this time around.

2) Regardless of where you believe his heart truly lies, it's undeniable that Obama ran to the left of Clinton.
 
2013-07-18 11:56:43 AM  

Xanadone: Hey, he voluntarily sleeps with Sandra Lee.


How noble of him not to avail himself of the bounties provided by the Sheldon Silver Nublie Intern Procurement Program (SSNIPP).
 
2013-07-18 11:57:27 AM  

Kevin72: Xanadone: Hey, he voluntarily sleeps with Sandra Lee. Obviously, there's something very very wrong with him.

Why did I read that as Sara Lee?


You were thinking of Chris Christie?
 
2013-07-18 11:58:41 AM  

Wendy's Chili: Pensions, delegate lists, charter schools, blah blah blah... Do your own homework.


How about you back up your own assertions?
 
2013-07-18 12:00:21 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Wendy's Chili: Pensions, delegate lists, charter schools, blah blah blah... Do your own homework.

How about you back up your own assertions?


I already did. If you want more there's a sea of information out there called the internet.
 
2013-07-18 12:00:29 PM  
He's wishy washy on fracking.
 
2013-07-18 12:01:34 PM  

WTF Indeed: Wendy's Chili: If Clinton does face a challenge, it's not going to be from someone who is ideologically identical to her.

/O'Malley '16!

Clinton faced a challenged from someone ideologically identical to her in 2008. How did that go for her?


Ideologically the same except for the one issue that mattered: Ending Bush's insanity. Obama vowed to end the war in Iraq; Hillary met with the Bushman himself to talk about perpetuating our involvement in Iraq. I know that was the issue that had me campaign for Obama not just in my state, but volunteer calling to other states' primaries.
 
2013-07-18 12:03:53 PM  

Wendy's Chili: cameroncrazy1984: Wendy's Chili: Pensions, delegate lists, charter schools, blah blah blah... Do your own homework.

How about you back up your own assertions?

I already did. If you want more there's a sea of information out there called the internet.


So your evidence for all this union busting is an interview from before he was governor, saying that he'd loosen the dysfunction in Albany by not kowtowing to the unions' every demand?

That's a pretty strong case, there.
 
2013-07-18 12:12:42 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Wendy's Chili: cameroncrazy1984: Wendy's Chili: Pensions, delegate lists, charter schools, blah blah blah... Do your own homework.

How about you back up your own assertions?

I already did. If you want more there's a sea of information out there called the internet.

So your evidence for all this union busting is an interview from before he was governor, saying that he'd loosen the dysfunction in Albany by not kowtowing to the unions' every demand?

That's a pretty strong case, there.


If you were half as interested in the information you claim to seek as you are in having me look it up for you, you'd have had it an hour ago.
Just google "cuomo" and "union" or "labor". It's not hard, I swear.
 
2013-07-18 12:16:21 PM  
Andrew Cuomo can eat a bowl of dicks. He made his bones deriding  university administrators for problems in student loans, and when Obama changed the regulations, he was no where to be found. fark him.
 
2013-07-18 12:16:42 PM  

Gulper Eel: Wendy's Chili: He wants to crush unions.

The poor dears. They'll have to scrape by on their six-figure tax-free pensions once Cuomo is through with them. Won't somebody think of the 43-year-old retired suburban cops?


Here's a dare for you: Go be a cop in "suburban" New York for 20 years, then come back and biatch like a little girl about the pension.

DARE YA
 
2013-07-18 12:19:35 PM  

mediablitz: Gulper Eel: Wendy's Chili: He wants to crush unions.

The poor dears. They'll have to scrape by on their six-figure tax-free pensions once Cuomo is through with them. Won't somebody think of the 43-year-old retired suburban cops?

Here's a dare for you: Go be a cop in "suburban" New York for 20 years, then come back and biatch like a little girl about the pension.

DARE YA


You're wasting your breath. Rightists hate working people and especially hate working people getting themselves a reasonable deal and nothing you can say will change their minds.
 
2013-07-18 12:24:37 PM  

Wendy's Chili: ikanreed: tallguywithglasseson: ikanreed: Pelosi and clinton could be argued to have been plain-ol-center

Which Clinton?

I'm sorry, I meant Bill.  Hilary was only a senator and sec-state, important, but not representational of the party.

You think Clinton was to the left of Obama?

William Jefferson "NAFTAwelfarereformWTOfinancialderegulation" Clinton?


"To the left of" is a misnomer. "Not as far right as" would be better.

I'm thinking it's a tough call which of the two is more to the right. You have banker loving, drone loving Obama in a much more gay-friendly climate.
 
2013-07-18 12:25:54 PM  
I would vote for Cuomo over Clinton in a New York minute because a) we've already had a president named Clinton and if I recall correctly, this country is still a democracy, not an aristocracy; future histories of the 1980's-2020's are going to be confusing enough without a second President Clinton,  and b) Hillary did not earn her present distinction; she totally rode her husband's coattails and, were it not for Bill, would probably be chasing ambulances in Little Rock at this instance. Of course, the same could be said of Andrew Cuomo, but see a).
 
2013-07-18 12:25:58 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: mediablitz: Gulper Eel: Wendy's Chili: He wants to crush unions.

The poor dears. They'll have to scrape by on their six-figure tax-free pensions once Cuomo is through with them. Won't somebody think of the 43-year-old retired suburban cops?

Here's a dare for you: Go be a cop in "suburban" New York for 20 years, then come back and biatch like a little girl about the pension.

DARE YA

You're wasting your breath. Rightists hate working people and especially hate working people getting themselves a reasonable deal and nothing you can say will change their minds.


Bankers making multi-millions off of my savings = OKAY

Regular working Joe risking his life for 20 years and getting a halfway decent pension out of it = SCANDAL

farking idiots...
 
2013-07-18 12:28:50 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: mediablitz: Gulper Eel: Wendy's Chili: He wants to crush unions.

The poor dears. They'll have to scrape by on their six-figure tax-free pensions once Cuomo is through with them. Won't somebody think of the 43-year-old retired suburban cops?

Here's a dare for you: Go be a cop in "suburban" New York for 20 years, then come back and biatch like a little girl about the pension.

DARE YA

You're wasting your breath. Rightists hate working people and especially hate working people getting themselves a reasonable deal and nothing you can say will change their minds.


Retiring at 43 and earning a massive pension is never reasonable.
 
2013-07-18 12:29:44 PM  

Fark It: A Dark Evil Omen: mediablitz: Gulper Eel: Wendy's Chili: He wants to crush unions.

The poor dears. They'll have to scrape by on their six-figure tax-free pensions once Cuomo is through with them. Won't somebody think of the 43-year-old retired suburban cops?

Here's a dare for you: Go be a cop in "suburban" New York for 20 years, then come back and biatch like a little girl about the pension.

DARE YA

You're wasting your breath. Rightists hate working people and especially hate working people getting themselves a reasonable deal and nothing you can say will change their minds.

Retiring at 43 and earning a massive pension is never reasonable.


Is that a thing? I doubt it. If it is... why not organize with your co-workers and get yourself a good deal, too?
 
2013-07-18 12:33:10 PM  
Indicative of Cuomos is his gun control law.  Weather you agree or disagree with it is not the point.  It was so poorly written that it did not include wavers for the police and military.  He made every cop in NY a felon.  Then, because it was so poorly written, 90% of legal gun owners would have become felons in 1 year.  They re-wrote it and it is so fricking confusing that I still dont know what the rules are.  I belive that my 10 round magazine is OK as long as I dont load more than 7 rounds in it.   But I am really not sure. No people I know are sure either. Everything he does ends up a mess.
 
2013-07-18 12:37:41 PM  

Fark It: Retiring at 43 and earning a massive pension is never reasonable.


Because god knows we need 55+ year old police officers running around with the burdens we put on them now-a-days.

Jees, do you ever  listen to yourself?
 
2013-07-18 12:38:49 PM  

bigsteve3OOO: Indicative of Cuomos is his gun control law.  Weather you agree or disagree with it is not the point.  It was so poorly written that it did not include wavers for the police and military.  He made every cop in NY a felon.  Then, because it was so poorly written, 90% of legal gun owners would have become felons in 1 year.  They re-wrote it and it is so fricking confusing that I still dont know what the rules are.  I belive that my 10 round magazine is OK as long as I dont load more than 7 rounds in it.   But I am really not sure. No people I know are sure either. Everything he does ends up a mess.


Maybe if the Pro-gun sorts had sat down at a table and helped write something rather than sitting ther harumphing the whole thing maybe it would have made more sense?
 
2013-07-18 12:41:00 PM  

saintstryfe: Fark It: Retiring at 43 and earning a massive pension is never reasonable.

Because god knows we need 55+ year old police officers running around with the burdens we put on them now-a-days.

Jees, do you ever  listen to yourself?


It is never reasonable to retire at any age with any pension better than mine, no matter who you are or what you do. It is also unreasonable for me to improve my position by getting together with my co-workers and colleagues and using our right to collective bargaining so that I am getting as good a deal as some of those other people because reasons and also furthermore.
 
2013-07-18 12:41:12 PM  

bigsteve3OOO: Indicative of Cuomos is his gun control law.  Weatherhether you agree or disagree with it is not the point.  It was so poorly written that it did not include waivers for the police and military.  He made every cop in NY a felon.  Then, because it was so poorly written, 90% of legal gun owners would have become felons in 1one year.  They re-wrote it and it is so fricking confusing that I still don't know what the rules are.  I beli

eve that my 10 round magazine is OK as long as I don't load more than 7seven rounds in it.   But I am really not sure. No people Nobody I know are is sure either. Everything he does ends up a mess.

It would be easier to take you seriously if you spoke English (yes, and I know there's a typo in my earlier post).
 
2013-07-18 12:43:13 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: It is never reasonable to retire at any age with any pension better than mine, no matter who you are or what you do. It is also unreasonable for me to improve my position by getting together with my co-workers and colleagues and using our right to collective bargaining so that I am getting as good a deal as some of those other people because reasons and also furthermore.


Unless you're a job creator, right? Then you're entitled to as much money as you want because reasons and furthermore.
 
2013-07-18 12:43:48 PM  

clambam: A Dark Evil Omen: It is never reasonable to retire at any age with any pension better than mine, no matter who you are or what you do. It is also unreasonable for me to improve my position by getting together with my co-workers and colleagues and using our right to collective bargaining so that I am getting as good a deal as some of those other people because reasons and also furthermore.

Unless you're a job creator, right? Then you're entitled to as much money as you want because reasons and furthermore.


Well, yes. All of the money. All of it.
 
2013-07-18 12:46:35 PM  

ikanreed: tallguywithglasseson: ikanreed: Pelosi and clinton could be argued to have been plain-ol-center

Which Clinton?

I'm sorry, I meant Bill.  Hilary was only a senator and sec-state, important, but not representational of the party.


Clinton is not to the left of Obama.

NAFTA, expanded death penalty, elimination of grants for inmate education, deregulation of banks, etc etc.

Reminds me an article mentioning "Clinton nostalgia"
 http://nymag.com/news/politics/liberals-jonathan-chait-2011-11/


A similar thing seems to be happening with Reagan... in light of current Republicans, all of a sudden, he was practically a liberal!
Wonder if in another 10 years (and if he doesn't run for President again) we'll get Gingrich nostalgia.
 
2013-07-18 12:49:09 PM  

saintstryfe: Fark It: Retiring at 43 and earning a massive pension is never reasonable.

Because god knows we need 55+ year old police officers running around with the burdens we put on them now-a-days.

Jees, do you ever  listen to yourself?


Are you retarded?

A Dark Evil Omen: as good a deal as some of those other people because reasons and also furthermore.


How many other unions have deals as good as public employee unions?
 
2013-07-18 12:49:57 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: ikanreed: tallguywithglasseson: ikanreed: Pelosi and clinton could be argued to have been plain-ol-center

Which Clinton?

I'm sorry, I meant Bill.  Hilary was only a senator and sec-state, important, but not representational of the party.

Clinton is not to the left of Obama.

NAFTA, expanded death penalty, elimination of grants for inmate education, deregulation of banks, etc etc.

Reminds me an article mentioning "Clinton nostalgia"
 http://nymag.com/news/politics/liberals-jonathan-chait-2011-11/


A similar thing seems to be happening with Reagan... in light of current Republicans, all of a sudden, he was practically a liberal!
Wonder if in another 10 years (and if he doesn't run for President again) we'll get Gingrich nostalgia.


The former is manufactured to help the Democrats continue to present as a "center-left" party in the face of all evidence. The latter is manufactured to help the Republicans continue to present as a "center-right" party in the face of all evidence.

Basically, both parties now that the actual voting public is significantly to the left in almost all respects, economically and socially, to both parties' actual governance positions. They have to keep up appearances.
 
2013-07-18 12:53:30 PM  

Fark It: saintstryfe: Fark It: Retiring at 43 and earning a massive pension is never reasonable.

Because god knows we need 55+ year old police officers running around with the burdens we put on them now-a-days.

Jees, do you ever  listen to yourself?

Are you retarded?

A Dark Evil Omen: as good a deal as some of those other people because reasons and also furthermore.

How many other unions have deals as good as public employee unions?


What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? You're trying to tear people down for availing themselves of opportunities that - unlike the "business opportunities" the right-wing is constantly pushing - you actually can avail yourself of, as well. So do it.
 
2013-07-18 01:08:54 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? You're trying to tear people down for availing themselves of opportunities that - unlike the "business opportunities" the right-wing is constantly pushing - you actually can avail yourself of, as well. So do it.


Right-wing conservatives:  Your inability to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and avail yourself to opportunity in order to better yourself is a moral failing.  Stop trying to tear down people who make more money than you!

Left-wing liberals:  Your inability to get a sweet pension deal is just a moral failing and a refusal to better yourself.  Stop trying to tear down people who make more money than you!
 
2013-07-18 01:10:15 PM  

Fark It: A Dark Evil Omen: What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? You're trying to tear people down for availing themselves of opportunities that - unlike the "business opportunities" the right-wing is constantly pushing - you actually can avail yourself of, as well. So do it.

Right-wing conservatives:  Your inability to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and avail yourself to opportunity in order to better yourself is a moral failing.  Stop trying to tear down people who make more money than you!

Left-wing liberals:  Your inability to get a sweet pension deal is just a moral failing and a refusal to better yourself.  Stop trying to tear down people who make more money than you!


Sure, that's it. BSABSVR amirite?
 
2013-07-18 01:18:30 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: Fark It: A Dark Evil Omen: What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? You're trying to tear people down for availing themselves of opportunities that - unlike the "business opportunities" the right-wing is constantly pushing - you actually can avail yourself of, as well. So do it.

Right-wing conservatives:  Your inability to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and avail yourself to opportunity in order to better yourself is a moral failing.  Stop trying to tear down people who make more money than you!

Left-wing liberals:  Your inability to get a sweet pension deal is just a moral failing and a refusal to better yourself.  Stop trying to tear down people who make more money than you!

Sure, that's it. BSABSVR amirite?


"Vote Republican" yes, that's exactly what I said.  Anybody who thinks public employee unions have undue influence and have pensions that are too generous is clearly a right-wing tea partier....
 
2013-07-18 01:23:17 PM  

Fark It: A Dark Evil Omen: Fark It: A Dark Evil Omen: What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? You're trying to tear people down for availing themselves of opportunities that - unlike the "business opportunities" the right-wing is constantly pushing - you actually can avail yourself of, as well. So do it.

Right-wing conservatives:  Your inability to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and avail yourself to opportunity in order to better yourself is a moral failing.  Stop trying to tear down people who make more money than you!

Left-wing liberals:  Your inability to get a sweet pension deal is just a moral failing and a refusal to better yourself.  Stop trying to tear down people who make more money than you!

Sure, that's it. BSABSVR amirite?

"Vote Republican" yes, that's exactly what I said.  Anybody who thinks public employee unions have undue influence and have pensions that are too generous is clearly a right-wing tea partier....


If you think getting the same deal that we all should be getting is a more massive problem than the fact that most of us are getting screwed, you may not be a "right-wing tea partier" but you sure don't have your priorities straight.
 
2013-07-18 01:28:16 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: The former is manufactured to help the Democrats continue to present as a "center-left" party in the face of all evidence. The latter is manufactured to help the Republicans continue to present as a "center-right" party in the face of all evidence.


Neither of those things make sense.

Clinton-as-true-liberal is used by the left, to contrast with "right/conservative" Obama.
Attacks on Obama from the left are not helpful to Democrats.

Reagan-as-reasonable-centrist doesn't help Republicans. Republicans still use Reagan as a demigod, viewing him as anything but a True Conservative runs counter to that.

It seems weird but it's like some on the left are creating an alternate past in which leaders were more aligned with their ideals... and everyone else is just constantly letting them down. Pining away for the good old days when the good liberals ran everything!
 
2013-07-18 01:31:22 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: Fark It: A Dark Evil Omen: Fark It: A Dark Evil Omen: What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? You're trying to tear people down for availing themselves of opportunities that - unlike the "business opportunities" the right-wing is constantly pushing - you actually can avail yourself of, as well. So do it.

Right-wing conservatives:  Your inability to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and avail yourself to opportunity in order to better yourself is a moral failing.  Stop trying to tear down people who make more money than you!

Left-wing liberals:  Your inability to get a sweet pension deal is just a moral failing and a refusal to better yourself.  Stop trying to tear down people who make more money than you!

Sure, that's it. BSABSVR amirite?

"Vote Republican" yes, that's exactly what I said.  Anybody who thinks public employee unions have undue influence and have pensions that are too generous is clearly a right-wing tea partier....

If you think getting the same deal that we all should be getting is a more massive problem than the fact that most of us are getting screwed, you may not be a "right-wing tea partier" but you sure don't have your priorities straight.


I'm speaking from my experience as an Illinois resident.  Our public employees (including part-time legislators and members of local boards, of which this state has many hundreds that meet maybe once or twice a month) are eligible for gigantic pensions that take the average of the last five years of salary (which are stacked with overtime) at 80% and guarantee that forever, with guaranteed annual pension raises that are above the rate of inflation.  This is on top of the healthcare costs that the state has to absorb.  Sure, in some places, public employees do get an unfair deal.  In Illinois, they have had free reign, and the result has been a $100,000,000,000 disaster.  The state is going to be insolvent, all so teachers, cops, firefighters, the politicians, librarians, dog-catchers, and people who clean roadkill off the highway can make six-figures into their 80s and double-dip across various state jobs and pension funds.  I don't want 50-year old cops on the street.  The solution is not to give them six-figure pensions in their 40s.  Have them work dispatch or the desk, or promote them to investigator even.
 
2013-07-18 01:36:22 PM  

clambam: if I recall correctly, this country is still a democracy, not an aristocracy


This "aristocracy" bullshiat is getting old. Did they change the rules so Clinton inherits the office instead of having to run and be elected?
 
2013-07-18 01:46:15 PM  

Fark It: A Dark Evil Omen: Fark It: A Dark Evil Omen: Fark It: A Dark Evil Omen: What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? You're trying to tear people down for availing themselves of opportunities that - unlike the "business opportunities" the right-wing is constantly pushing - you actually can avail yourself of, as well. So do it.

Right-wing conservatives:  Your inability to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and avail yourself to opportunity in order to better yourself is a moral failing.  Stop trying to tear down people who make more money than you!

Left-wing liberals:  Your inability to get a sweet pension deal is just a moral failing and a refusal to better yourself.  Stop trying to tear down people who make more money than you!

Sure, that's it. BSABSVR amirite?

"Vote Republican" yes, that's exactly what I said.  Anybody who thinks public employee unions have undue influence and have pensions that are too generous is clearly a right-wing tea partier....

If you think getting the same deal that we all should be getting is a more massive problem than the fact that most of us are getting screwed, you may not be a "right-wing tea partier" but you sure don't have your priorities straight.

I'm speaking from my experience as an Illinois resident.  Our public employees (including part-time legislators and members of local boards, of which this state has many hundreds that meet maybe once or twice a month) are eligible for gigantic pensions that take the average of the last five years of salary (which are stacked with overtime) at 80% and guarantee that forever, with guaranteed annual pension raises that are above the rate of inflation.  This is on top of the healthcare costs that the state has to absorb.  Sure, in some places, public employees do get an unfair deal.  In Illinois, they have had free reign, and the result has been a $100,000,000,000 disaster.  The state is going to be insolvent, all so teachers, cops, firefighters, the politicians, libraria ...


And I am telling you in my experience as someone who works with a number of unions and in a lot of ground-level political activity, you are being manipulated. Do you know what the actual solution to this "problem" - assuming it is the apocalyptic scenario you characterize it as, which I strongly doubt because it never is - actually is? Fair and equitable negotiation. The government agencies should be negotiating straight across with the unions and passing laws to guarantee stability of contracts.

Part of the reason public sector unions in particular try to eke out seemingly sweetheart deals or overlook the one person in a thousand who games the system is that, thanks to the nature of electoral politics, at any time their deal could disappear. Poof, gone. Look at Wisconsin. There's little to nothing actually protecting a public sector union contract. Tendentious strike actions can only accomplish so much because there aren't enough people in the union to picket every single voter, personally. They try to get as good a deal as possible today because it might disappear in two years for reasons completely out of their control.

Politically speaking, I have no love for the SEIU and less for law enforcement unions. The former are ultra-partisan and are little help to the labor movement because the above problems have left them bound up so tightly with the Democrats that as soon as a D advances anti-labor positions, suddenly the SEIU is nowhere to be found. It's not good for anyone. The latter are distinctly anti-labor because their support based comes from corporate and far-right groups, in part, again, because of the same issues above.

If you're really concerned about "budget issues", THE UNIONS!!!! are not your enemy. Unlike government contractors, public employees are also citizens and also voters; as long as they can feel comfortable that they're not going to have the rug pulled out from under them out of spite in the next election cycle they have far more incentive than most people to ensure public solvency and continuity.
 
2013-07-18 01:48:12 PM  

qorkfiend: clambam: if I recall correctly, this country is still a democracy, not an aristocracy

This "aristocracy" bullshiat is getting old. Did they change the rules so Clinton inherits the office instead of having to run and be elected?


Isn't that kind of what she would be doing, though? "I am the wife of Bill Clinton. Make me president." This after "I am the wife of Bill Clinton. Make me senator" and "I am the wife of Bill Clinton. Make me Secretary of State." I'm agin it. I'm not saying she's not qualified, I'm saying she's not particularly qualified. It's nepotism. Elizabeth Warren for President? Sure. Hillary Clinton for President? Earn it.
 
2013-07-18 01:50:56 PM  
Oh, look: the NY Daily News is pretending to care what Democrats think!
 
2013-07-18 02:10:53 PM  

Wendy's Chili: ikanreed: tallguywithglasseson: ikanreed: Pelosi and clinton could be argued to have been plain-ol-center

Which Clinton?

I'm sorry, I meant Bill.  Hilary was only a senator and sec-state, important, but not representational of the party.

You think Clinton was to the left of Obama?

William Jefferson "NAFTAwelfarereformWTOfinancialderegulation" Clinton?


Yes, I do.  That's against Barack "Cuttaxesignoreclimatechangebombeveryonewithdrones" Obama, the answer is essentially yes.
 
2013-07-18 02:16:25 PM  

clambam: qorkfiend: clambam: if I recall correctly, this country is still a democracy, not an aristocracy

This "aristocracy" bullshiat is getting old. Did they change the rules so Clinton inherits the office instead of having to run and be elected?

Isn't that kind of what she would be doing, though? "I am the wife of Bill Clinton. Make me president." This after "I am the wife of Bill Clinton. Make me senator" and "I am the wife of Bill Clinton. Make me Secretary of State." I'm agin it. I'm not saying she's not qualified, I'm saying she's not particularly qualified. It's nepotism. Elizabeth Warren for President? Sure. Hillary Clinton for President? Earn it.


If by "Isn't that kind of what she would be doing", you mean "winning the primary, followed by winning the general election" just like every other modern presidential candidate, then yes.

Nepotism != aristocracy.
 
2013-07-18 02:19:18 PM  

qorkfiend: clambam: qorkfiend: clambam: if I recall correctly, this country is still a democracy, not an aristocracy

This "aristocracy" bullshiat is getting old. Did they change the rules so Clinton inherits the office instead of having to run and be elected?

Isn't that kind of what she would be doing, though? "I am the wife of Bill Clinton. Make me president." This after "I am the wife of Bill Clinton. Make me senator" and "I am the wife of Bill Clinton. Make me Secretary of State." I'm agin it. I'm not saying she's not qualified, I'm saying she's not particularly qualified. It's nepotism. Elizabeth Warren for President? Sure. Hillary Clinton for President? Earn it.

If by "Isn't that kind of what she would be doing", you mean "winning the primary, followed by winning the general election" just like every other modern presidential candidate, then yes.

Nepotism != aristocracy.


Really? I'd say nepotism is the essence of aristocracy. However, hair successfully split.
 
2013-07-18 02:21:20 PM  
He's still trying to dodge those connections to a '70s chainsaw massacre.

/Cuomo: He's a Murderer
 
2013-07-18 02:26:26 PM  

clambam: qorkfiend: clambam: qorkfiend: clambam: if I recall correctly, this country is still a democracy, not an aristocracy

This "aristocracy" bullshiat is getting old. Did they change the rules so Clinton inherits the office instead of having to run and be elected?

Isn't that kind of what she would be doing, though? "I am the wife of Bill Clinton. Make me president." This after "I am the wife of Bill Clinton. Make me senator" and "I am the wife of Bill Clinton. Make me Secretary of State." I'm agin it. I'm not saying she's not qualified, I'm saying she's not particularly qualified. It's nepotism. Elizabeth Warren for President? Sure. Hillary Clinton for President? Earn it.

If by "Isn't that kind of what she would be doing", you mean "winning the primary, followed by winning the general election" just like every other modern presidential candidate, then yes.

Nepotism != aristocracy.

Really? I'd say nepotism is the essence of aristocracy. However, hair successfully split.


Right. Pointing out that Hillary Clinton has to go through the exact same process as everyone else, as opposed to inheriting her position as you're suggesting, is splitting hairs.
 
2013-07-18 02:31:56 PM  
Subby / concern trollmitter:
See, here's the difference between "liberal" and "conservative" groups.  A "liberal watchdog" group is 95% concerned about being a watchdog; they have no party loyalty.  Their goal isn't to advance the Democratic party, it's to watch dogs.

On contrast, a "conservative" group of any sort will generally be 99% anti-Democrat and pro-Republican, and maybe spend 1 percent of the time advocating what their particular focus is claimed to be.
 
2013-07-18 02:41:08 PM  

qorkfiend: Right. Pointing out that Hillary Clinton has to go through the exact same process as everyone else, as opposed to inheriting her position as you're suggesting, is splitting hairs.


Yup, exact same process. Married president of the United States, spent eight years in the White House as First Lady, moved to a liberal state and had a Senate seat more or less handed to her on a silver platter, spent six years in the Senate and then ran for president. Just like Lincoln.I'm not saying she's not smart or capable of performing the duties of high office. I'm saying that, without her connections she would be a nobody, a complete non-entity. She might have worked her way up to the Arkansas State Senate, but that's about it. She no more deserves the presidency than Mary Bono Mack deserved Sonny's old House seat.
 
2013-07-18 02:57:13 PM  

clambam: qorkfiend: Right. Pointing out that Hillary Clinton has to go through the exact same process as everyone else, as opposed to inheriting her position as you're suggesting, is splitting hairs.

Yup, exact same process. Married president of the United States, spent eight years in the White House as First Lady, moved to a liberal state and had a Senate seat more or less handed to her on a silver platter, spent six years in the Senate and then ran for president. Just like Lincoln.I'm not saying she's not smart or capable of performing the duties of high office. I'm saying that, without her connections she would be a nobody, a complete non-entity. She might have worked her way up to the Arkansas State Senate, but that's about it. She no more deserves the presidency than Mary Bono Mack deserved Sonny's old House seat.


How many politicians had fathers who were politicians, or fathers or other relatives whose connections opened doors for them throughout their lives? I would guess most.
 
2013-07-18 03:58:00 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: If it is... why not organize with your co-workers and get yourself a good deal, too?


Why do you insist on arguing a fantasy that is neither economically nor fiscally sustainable?
 
2013-07-18 04:22:01 PM  

GoldSpider: A Dark Evil Omen: If it is... why not organize with your co-workers and get yourself a good deal, too?

Why do you insist on arguing a fantasy that is neither economically nor fiscally sustainable?


Uh, no, see, you have it backwards, it's the constant downward pressure on wages due in part to lack of robust labor organization that is neither economically nor fiscally sustainable.
 
2013-07-18 04:41:54 PM  

Wendy's Chili: Clinton is a much stronger candidate this time around.


You completely missed out on the whole having to resign due to deteriorating health issues, didn't you? That kills anyone's candidacy if your name isn't Roosevelt.

Clinton is a non-starter.
 
2013-07-18 10:46:43 PM  

saintstryfe: bigsteve3OOO: Indicative of Cuomos is his gun control law.  Weather you agree or disagree with it is not the point.  It was so poorly written that it did not include wavers for the police and military.  He made every cop in NY a felon.  Then, because it was so poorly written, 90% of legal gun owners would have become felons in 1 year.  They re-wrote it and it is so fricking confusing that I still dont know what the rules are.  I belive that my 10 round magazine is OK as long as I dont load more than 7 rounds in it.   But I am really not sure. No people I know are sure either. Everything he does ends up a mess.

Maybe if the Pro-gun sorts had sat down at a table and helped write something rather than sitting ther harumphing the whole thing maybe it would have made more sense?


I'm an Albany Democrat libby lib and I'm generally pro-gun control, but the SAFE Act was passed through without debate or warning. It literally happened overnight.

It solved jack shiat and caused major financial problems to law abiding folk. Except the modifications market, those guys are raking it in.

To CameronCrazy1984, consider this: Cuomo has never met a corporation whose knob he hasn't slobbed. The man pushed very hard to crack down on OWS and loves talking about giving away tax money to corporations while slashing social services.

He's very much a Republican who's shrewd enough to wear the D label.
 
2013-07-19 07:25:14 AM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Cuomo has never met a corporation whose knob he hasn't slobbed. The man pushed very hard to crack down on OWS and loves talking about giving away tax money to corporations while slashing social services.


Yeah, we've slashed Medicaid all the way to $56 billion a year, and now it's no longer bigger than the next two largest state Medicaid programs combined. That monster.

And our per-pupil education spending: shamefully, it's not even double the national average any more. Doesn't Cuomo care about The ChildrenTM?
 
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