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(Talking Points Memo)   Boehner and Cantor endorse the Dream Act. In related news, Tea Party endorses whoever will run against them   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 130
    More: Interesting, Boehner, House Majority Leader  
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1671 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Jul 2013 at 10:33 AM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-18 01:36:53 PM

Stone Meadow: Serious Black: A Dark Evil Omen: Serious Black: It's either that or we condemn our agricultural workers to suffering in poverty just to make your eating habits cheaper.

Isn't that basically the entire right-wing position on, like... all workers, though?

I think we're a few decades away from Republicans openly calling for a return to feudalism.

At their present rate of growth (-2% per year) there WON'T BE any Republicans in about 35 years.


Those 35 years can't come fast enough.
 
2013-07-18 01:37:08 PM

JollyMagistrate: triple the cost of wheat


My father-in-law and his nephew plant, tend, and harvest a whole shiatload of wheat every year between just the two of them. They don't hire anyone, much less illegals. My point is, I  think grains are different than produce, because all the hard, crushing work is delegated to giant armageddon-like machinery that's more-or-less indifferent to working conditions so long as the diesel keeps flowing.

I don't know anything about raising produce on a large scale, but I'm guessing you can't harvest e.g. romaine lettuce the same way.
 
2013-07-18 01:41:53 PM

SixPaperJoint: One way we could reach that is to increase the amount of people that actually vote.


Yeah, but making Election Day a Federal holiday means Democrats win (this is what Republicans actually believe, and why they're pushing for fewer voting hours, not more), so we need to make sure as few people get to the polls as possible, because freedom.

// the Thomas link is a bill sponsored by Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) in 2003, shot down b the GOP
 
2013-07-18 01:53:33 PM
If we legitimize these illegals, it may result in an increase in the amount of taxes they pay. We know how the Tea Farty feels about taxes.

/what typo?
 
2013-07-18 02:04:15 PM

SixPaperJoint: 12 Year Limit in the Congress and The Courts including the Supreme Court is more than enough time for these people.I was in the Air Force of over 20 years and when it came to Unit Commanders, no matter how well a commander was performing, they were reassigned after 2 years. This gave him the opportunity to increase the breadth of his knowledge and experiences and made way for a new commander that brought with them new ideas. WE NEED NEW IDEAS!!!


You want new ideas and a higher rate of turn over in our elected officials?

One way we could reach that is to increase the amount of people that actually vote.

Our high water mark was 63.1% of the eligible voting population and that was in 1960.

Bigger turnout could achieve you goals and does not require a Constitutional amendment. Also, it doesn't limit the will of the people, it actually helps express it.


In theory I don't disagree with you, it would be nice to have a higher percentage of voters. But, in reality - do we really need more clueless people voting? People who simply vote the party line because they have always did it that way regardless of the issues. People who vote based on one issue, an issue they may not fully understand. People who cannot tell you who is the Vice President of the United States... So yes, higher percentage of people voting sounds wonderful in theory, but in reality - not so much.
 
2013-07-18 02:07:03 PM

Dr Dreidel: SixPaperJoint: One way we could reach that is to increase the amount of people that actually vote.

Yeah, but making Election Day a Federal holiday means Democrats win (this is what Republicans actually believe, and why they're pushing for fewer voting hours, not more), so we need to make sure as few people get to the polls as possible, because freedom.

// the Thomas link is a bill sponsored by Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) in 2003, shot down b the GOP


I have never understood why we get a day off the celebrate the birth of our country, but not a day off to keep it running.

Why would this be a partisan issue?
 
2013-07-18 02:07:22 PM

Brick-House: Pants full of macaroni!!: Brick-House: IMHO, every incumbent needs to be voted out regardless of which party they're in.I would also love to see party affiliation removed from ballots and then watch the people who have no clue what they're doing try to vote the party line. Maybe then, people will start listening to what these people say and compare it against what they do and hold them accountable.

Who are you and what have you done with Brick-House?

Listen, when BOB does his next State of the Union Address, if it were up to me, I would lock all the doors, put bars on the windows and hang a sign that says Federal Prison. All three branches of the government are totally farked and we need an Extreme Government Makeover. And the first thing I would install is a 12 Year Term Limit for everyone except the President as 8 is enough. And the term limits I would also extend to the Supremes as they appear to be as bad as the rest of the government.


So your solution to our problems is a giant RESET button for the government and then more term limits.

Even if that were possible (it isn't) what would you do if it didn't magically fix all our problems?

What's Plan B? Start shooting people? Usually when I hear someone seriously proposing "the entire government must go" Plan B is shoot a bunch of people and then THAT will somehow fix everything. (It won't)
 
2013-07-18 02:09:22 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: If we legitimize these illegals, it may result in an increase in the amount of taxes they pay. We know how the Tea Farty feels about taxes.

/what typo?


legitimize these illegals - OK, but make it so they are NEVER allowed to vote. Call it a penality for breaking out immergration law in the first place.
 
2013-07-18 02:10:37 PM

SixPaperJoint: Why would this be a partisan issue?


Increased voter participation has never served the GOP well.
 
2013-07-18 02:11:39 PM

raerae1980: I'm...I'm so confused.   I thought that side of the political spectrum was against the Dream Act.   Now they are for it?   Why?  What's changed?   How does it screw me over (I'm sure it will....I'm female!)


*checks profile*

*re attaches lower jaw now on floor*

No words. I got no words.
 
2013-07-18 02:12:11 PM

Brick-House: legitimize these illegals - OK, but make it so they are NEVER allowed to vote. Call it a penality for breaking out immergration law in the first place.


Or we could go back to the Open-door policy we had at the turn of the last century, and allow for those that are here anyway a less hassled way to be legal citizens. Then they pay taxes and you don't infringe on their rights to be citizens by allowing them to vote.

Seriously, if we're gonna make them citizens, we're not gonna make them second-class citizens.
 
2013-07-18 02:12:41 PM

Brick-House: SixPaperJoint: 12 Year Limit in the Congress and The Courts including the Supreme Court is more than enough time for these people.I was in the Air Force of over 20 years and when it came to Unit Commanders, no matter how well a commander was performing, they were reassigned after 2 years. This gave him the opportunity to increase the breadth of his knowledge and experiences and made way for a new commander that brought with them new ideas. WE NEED NEW IDEAS!!!


You want new ideas and a higher rate of turn over in our elected officials?

One way we could reach that is to increase the amount of people that actually vote.

Our high water mark was 63.1% of the eligible voting population and that was in 1960.

Bigger turnout could achieve you goals and does not require a Constitutional amendment. Also, it doesn't limit the will of the people, it actually helps express it.

In theory I don't disagree with you, it would be nice to have a higher percentage of voters. But, in reality - do we really need more clueless people voting? People who simply vote the party line because they have always did it that way regardless of the issues. People who vote based on one issue, an issue they may not fully understand. People who cannot tell you who is the Vice President of the United States... So yes, higher percentage of people voting sounds wonderful in theory, but in reality - not so much.


You assertion seems very...problematic.

Maybe you should also consider working in education or holding the media to a higher standard as a consumer and a citizen.

Again, those could address your issues directly and do it without a Constitutional amendment.
 
2013-07-18 02:18:53 PM

Soup4Bonnie: SixPaperJoint: Why would this be a partisan issue?

Increased voter participation has never served the GOP well.


And they fail to recognize the causality.

People don't like the GOP because the say things like "Those people are all going to vote Democrat anyway, so let's disenfranchise them as much as we legally can, or make it so difficult to vote that they give up." Instead of assuming they're Democrats for life, how about giving them a reason to vote for you in the first place?

The GOP has no trouble getting white folks to vote for them, why should it be any tougher getting blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Jews, Muslims or Raelians to vote for Republicans, absent a message that such groups find utterly distasteful?

// unless jettisoning that distasteful message is seen as political suicide or something
 
2013-07-18 02:21:07 PM

non-racer X: Philip Francis Queeg: non-racer X: Serious Black: non-racer X: Serious Black: non-racer X: You obviously don't like cheap food. "Illegals" are solely responsible for propping up our unsustainable agricultural industries as there aren't enough Americans willing to work hard labor in un-air conditioned fields for at or below minimum wage. The cost farms would have to pay to encourage citizen labor for those posts would triple the cost of wheat, fruit, and tobacco.

OK then, we make them all legal citizens then what? Do they make minimum wage and the prices sky-rocket anyway?
Or do we create a 2nd class of citizens that the minimum wage laws don't apply to?

It's either that or we condemn our agricultural workers to suffering in poverty just to make your eating habits cheaper.

My eating habits?  What about yours?

I think it is well worth paying more to eat to ensure a few million people can fully participate in civic life as American citizens.

No problem here....it just destroys one of the main arguments that the left tends to use.
"Who else will work our farms for such low wages"
Not the "illegals" if you make them citizens.

Prices won't farking skyrocket. Labor is runs somewhere between 17% and 41% of the cost of farm products depending on the crop. The actual producer of the crop gets only about 30% of the cost you pay in the store. Your scaremongering that costs would triple is farking nonsense.

Try to keep up Francis.  I never said prices would triple.  That was JollyMagistrate Serious Black, and I believe he meant if we had to pay natural born citizens to do the labor.  My only comment was that the price of produce would obviously increase.
I also said that I'm cool with that.

/conservative Libertarian
//my veggies come from my backyard garden which is watered by rain water that I capture in a 300 gallon tank


FTFY.
 
2013-07-18 02:21:46 PM

Brick-House: legitimize these illegals - OK, but make it so they are NEVER allowed to vote. Call it a penality for breaking out immergration law in the first place.


The important thing is to stay angry. Forever.

/Immergration.
 
2013-07-18 02:22:07 PM
All I know is that I know nothing.

If you asked me last week, I would say that "Dream act *principles*" was such an open ended weasel worded statement that you could laugh in his face. Then I heard how much trouble Rubio is in and have to admit that there is a harsh political price to be paid for even bullshiatting about being for immigration. Restoring sanity, is it really that hard?
 
2013-07-18 02:27:44 PM

Dr Dreidel: Soup4Bonnie: SixPaperJoint: Why would this be a partisan issue?

Increased voter participation has never served the GOP well.

And they fail to recognize the causality.

People don't like the GOP because the say things like "Those people are all going to vote Democrat anyway, so let's disenfranchise them as much as we legally can, or make it so difficult to vote that they give up." Instead of assuming they're Democrats for life, how about giving them a reason to vote for you in the first place?

The GOP has no trouble getting white folks to vote for them, why should it be any tougher getting blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Jews, Muslims or Raelians to vote for Republicans, absent a message that such groups find utterly distasteful?

// unless jettisoning that distasteful message is seen as political suicide or something


Bingo. The Republican Party platform is incredibly cynical. It assumes the absolute worst about everyone who isn't a straight white Christian Republican male, to the point where every policy seems to be centered around the argument that non Republicans are incapable of basic thought and human emotion.

I spend way too much time lurking around right wing websites like Free Republic. They talk a lot about freedom, but only the freedom to make those they hate absolutely miserable.
 
2013-07-18 02:43:27 PM

FlashHarry: Brick-House: IMHO, every incumbent needs to be voted out regardless of which party they're in.I would also love to see party affiliation removed from ballots and then watch the people who have no clue what they're doing try to vote the party line. Maybe then, people will start listening to what these people say and compare it against what they do and hold them accountable.

[i40.tinypic.com image 580x326]


I think he signed in the wrong account.

I think they should still allow a straight ticket ballot vote button, but don't tell anyone that hitting it causes all your votes to be ignored.
 
2013-07-18 02:47:35 PM
theknuckler_33: [Freeperville]Boehner'shiatting the sauce again.

There's a mental picture I could have done without.

/LOL filterpwn
 
2013-07-18 03:08:21 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: theknuckler_33: [Freeperville]:  Boehner'shiatting the sauce again.

There's a mental picture I could have done without.

/LOL filterpwn


I didn't even catch that it was a filterpwn.  I thought someone in Freeperland was actually using the metaphor of Boehner squatting over a bowl of piping-hot spaghetti sauce, pinching loaves into it.
 
2013-07-18 03:19:24 PM

parasol: non-racer X: //my veggies come from my backyard garden which is watered by rain water that I capture in a 300 gallon tank

A Dark Evil Omen: Oh, I see, you're one of those. Enjoy your existence subsidized by my work.


When did gardening go from a patriotic (victory gardens) frugal and pleasurable pastime to some sort of culture clash?  Really, DEO, X's "existence"?


I think he was referring more to the libertarian aspect than the gardening bit.
 
2013-07-18 03:34:36 PM

Raging Whore Moans: parasol: non-racer X: //my veggies come from my backyard garden which is watered by rain water that I capture in a 300 gallon tank

A Dark Evil Omen: Oh, I see, you're one of those. Enjoy your existence subsidized by my work.


When did gardening go from a patriotic (victory gardens) frugal and pleasurable pastime to some sort of culture clash?  Really, DEO, X's "existence"?

I think he was referring more to the libertarian aspect than the gardening bit.


Basically. One quickly - particularly here in the PNW, where they apparently grow like weeds - grows sick of being looked down on by Bootstrappy Libertarian Ubermenschen who couldn't live where they do, doing what they do with the quality of life they expect without those of us who live in the city in our small apartments and do things like working on communications infrastructure, power infrastructure and the like.
 
2013-07-18 05:25:56 PM

raerae1980: I'm...I'm so confused.   I thought that side of the political spectrum was against the Dream Act.   Now they are for it?   Why?  What's changed?  How does it screw me over (I'm sure it will....I'm female!)


They can't win the Presidency without the Mexican, er, Latino vote.
 
2013-07-18 05:29:24 PM

Serious Black: non-racer X: Philip Francis Queeg: non-racer X: Serious Black: non-racer X: Serious Black: non-racer X: You obviously don't like cheap food. "Illegals" are solely responsible for propping up our unsustainable agricultural industries as there aren't enough Americans willing to work hard labor in un-air conditioned fields for at or below minimum wage. The cost farms would have to pay to encourage citizen labor for those posts would triple the cost of wheat, fruit, and tobacco.

OK then, we make them all legal citizens then what? Do they make minimum wage and the prices sky-rocket anyway?
Or do we create a 2nd class of citizens that the minimum wage laws don't apply to?

It's either that or we condemn our agricultural workers to suffering in poverty just to make your eating habits cheaper.

My eating habits?  What about yours?

I think it is well worth paying more to eat to ensure a few million people can fully participate in civic life as American citizens.

No problem here....it just destroys one of the main arguments that the left tends to use.
"Who else will work our farms for such low wages"
Not the "illegals" if you make them citizens.

Prices won't farking skyrocket. Labor is runs somewhere between 17% and 41% of the cost of farm products depending on the crop. The actual producer of the crop gets only about 30% of the cost you pay in the store. Your scaremongering that costs would triple is farking nonsense.

Try to keep up Francis.  I never said prices would triple.  That was JollyMagistrate Serious Black, and I believe he meant if we had to pay natural born citizens to do the labor.  My only comment was that the price of produce would obviously increase.
I also said that I'm cool with that.

/conservative Libertarian
//my veggies come from my backyard garden which is watered by rain water that I capture in a 300 gallon tank

FTFY.


My bad...guess I got lost in the multiple replies as well.
 
2013-07-18 05:37:47 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Raging Whore Moans: parasol: non-racer X: //my veggies come from my backyard garden which is watered by rain water that I capture in a 300 gallon tank

A Dark Evil Omen: Oh, I see, you're one of those. Enjoy your existence subsidized by my work.


When did gardening go from a patriotic (victory gardens) frugal and pleasurable pastime to some sort of culture clash?  Really, DEO, X's "existence"?

I think he was referring more to the libertarian aspect than the gardening bit.

Basically. One quickly - particularly here in the PNW, where they apparently grow like weeds - grows sick of being looked down on by Bootstrappy Libertarian Ubermenschen who couldn't live where they do, doing what they do with the quality of life they expect without those of us who live in the city in our small apartments and do things like working on communications infrastructure, power infrastructure and the like.


Thank you for permitting me to live another day, may I please go outside and pick some lettuce from my garden for my dinner salad?
 
2013-07-18 09:44:14 PM

kbronsito: But are they for the full Dream Act or that version where only military service guarantees citizenship?


This is the feel-good bone they toss out so they don't have to pass any further immigration reform.

/ask your mom about feel-good bones
 
2013-07-18 11:41:36 PM

cameroncrazy1984: They realized they'll never hold national office again without latinos.


the 86 amnesty didn't move the meter in terms of the "Latino vote" either....

The democrats dont care about latinos any more than they cared about blacks 10-20 years go, they just want to flip texas same as they've flipped Ohio, PA and FL.
 
2013-07-19 12:17:03 AM

DORMAMU: raerae1980: I'm...I'm so confused.   I thought that side of the political spectrum was against the Dream Act.   Now they are for it?   Why?  What's changed?   How does it screw me over (I'm sure it will....I'm female!)

*checks profile*

*re attaches lower jaw now on floor*

No words. I got no words.


Okay, THAT made me smile.  :D
 
2013-07-19 12:32:30 AM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Fuggin Bizzy: theknuckler_33: [Freeperville]:  Boehner'shiatting the sauce again.

There's a mental picture I could have done without.

/LOL filterpwn

I didn't even catch that it was a filterpwn.  I thought someone in Freeperland was actually using the metaphor of Boehner squatting over a bowl of piping-hot spaghetti sauce, pinching loaves into it.


And there's an image I could have done without.
 
2013-07-19 05:13:02 AM

Serious Black: A Dark Evil Omen: Serious Black: It's either that or we condemn our agricultural workers to suffering in poverty just to make your eating habits cheaper.

Isn't that basically the entire right-wing position on, like... all workers, though?

I think we're a few decades away from Republicans openly calling for a return to feudalism.


They haven't already?
 
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