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(Deseret News)   Utah lawmaker proposes bold plan in favor of liberty, illiteracy   (deseretnews.com) divider line 109
    More: Stupid, Utah, illiteracy, Utah lawmakers, Deseret News, sex education, charter schools, Utah State Senate, private schools  
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2680 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Jul 2013 at 3:22 PM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-17 01:41:38 PM
At least the GOP is consistent in their hatred of education.
 
2013-07-17 01:47:41 PM
I thought the state was already in favor of illiteracy because of their notoriously awful baby names.
 
2013-07-17 02:00:53 PM
Because democracy and literacy are boring?

Seriously folks: folks who want this sort of thing, essentially want to get rid of education by those pesky secular folks, and instead institute religious teaching as the only "alternative" and moreover, get Federal and State money to indoctrinate kids. It's not about "freedom" it's not about "alternatives" it's about getting money to pad out their schools, and make other folks pay for it.

Utah is already deep in the sh*t for the state of its schools, and now folks want to further defund them? Yes, taking kids out of school WILL raise scores, but the cost of a permanent underclass. Dickensian is not a descriptor that you want to court...
 
2013-07-17 02:03:29 PM
Looks like good ol' Aaron wants to bring back a better time, when wimmins was in da kitchen, a cookin and a cleanin, and blacks knew their place, and you could have 150 wives and no one would be all up in yer face, and you could preach about how an angel whose name begins with "moron" gave Joseph Smith some gold plates a couple of hundred years ago. (Not that this account is any more ludicrous than the account of Jesus, or Moses, or Mohammed, or any other f*cking religious con artist since the beginning of time.)
 
2013-07-17 02:12:15 PM
Oh my god, the comments from the TPM link:

If you're literate and Utah is not, then you will be smarter. If you don't like illiteracy, don't be illiterate.
 
2013-07-17 02:16:45 PM
One lawmaker's "compulsory education" is another parent's "free day care, ages 5-18." I'm sure voters will line up in droves to support this tool's great idea.
 
2013-07-17 02:19:11 PM
Compulsory education laws have resulted in parents disengaging themselves from the responsibility to oversee the education of their children ...

I would argue that it is not the compulsory education that has caused the disengagement, but the two income household that has done this.  Parents don't have the same amount of time they used to.
 
2013-07-17 02:23:04 PM
I propose universal learning beds!
 
2013-07-17 02:49:07 PM
"But the reality of Utah's increasingly diverse population is that many children require those services."

I see what you did there...

/Wink, wink.
 
2013-07-17 02:53:58 PM
www.ohio.com

Osmond??

/before Jimmy and Marie, the way it should be
 
2013-07-17 03:04:48 PM
About what you'd expect from a University of Phoenix graduate.
 
2013-07-17 03:23:35 PM
In other news, the ditch digging industry in Utah is experiencing unprecedented growth.
 
2013-07-17 03:27:04 PM
OW MY BALLS!!!!
 
2013-07-17 03:30:37 PM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: In other news, the ditch digging industry in Utah is experiencing unprecedented growth.


The world also needs people to pay ditch diggers.
 
2013-07-17 03:31:40 PM
Dumb ass politician is dumb....
 
2013-07-17 03:33:26 PM
"Some parents act as if the responsibility to educate, and even care for their child, is primarily the responsibility of the public school system," Osmond wrote. "As a result, our teachers and schools have been forced to become surrogate parents, expected to do everything from behavioral counseling, to providing adequate nutrition, to teaching sex education, as well as ensuring full college and career readiness."

He ain't lying, but at the same time, you try and put this responsibility solely back onto a generation of parents in this day and age, you basically hearken the Idiocracy Future.
 
2013-07-17 03:33:49 PM
How my babby be edgamacated?
 
2013-07-17 03:34:15 PM
Compulsory education laws have resulted in parents disengaging themselves from the responsibility to oversee the education of their children

When you base your argument on a false premise you arrive at an incorrect conclusion.
 
2013-07-17 03:36:48 PM
This is really a jobs bill.  In twenty years when you have an illiterate generation you can bring in jobs that they don't want in Bangladesh.  For those of us on the coasts this would be like having a third world country in a free trade zone.

/I'll pay 25¢/hour if they agree to work six days a week
 
2013-07-17 03:37:09 PM
Step 1) Make basic education non-compulsory.
Step 2) Hey!  Look at all these public schools that can't even convince kids to show up.
Step 3) Shift funds from public schools to private ones.
 
2013-07-17 03:37:21 PM

jayhawk88: "Some parents act as if the responsibility to educate, and even care for their child, is primarily the responsibility of the public school system," Osmond wrote. "As a result, our teachers and schools have been forced to become surrogate parents, expected to do everything from behavioral counseling, to providing adequate nutrition, to teaching sex education, as well as ensuring full college and career readiness."

He ain't lying, but at the same time, you try and put this responsibility solely back onto a generation of parents in this day and age, you basically hearken the Idiocracy Future.


Don't worry, I hear FEMA's re-education camps will help the parents of today raise responsible young children.
 
2013-07-17 03:38:27 PM
He didn't say get rid of public education, just compulsory education.  Not everyone is cut out for book learning.
 
2013-07-17 03:40:09 PM
Because parents always know best, even the dumbass ones. . . .
 
2013-07-17 03:40:30 PM

red5ish: Compulsory education laws have resulted in parents disengaging themselves from the responsibility to oversee the education of their children

When you base your argument on a false premise you arrive at an incorrect conclusion.


Since when have facts gotten in the way of GOP stupidity?
 
2013-07-17 03:41:08 PM

Karac: Step 1) Make basic education non-compulsory.
Step 2) Hey!  Look at all these public schools that can't even convince kids to show up.
Step 3) Shift funds from public schools to private ones.


Step 4) Keep homeschooling fundies AND big corporations happy.
 
2013-07-17 03:41:39 PM
He sounds a little bit country.
 
2013-07-17 03:48:14 PM

EvilEgg: He didn't say get rid of public education, just compulsory education.  Not everyone is cut out for book learning.


No but everyone needs to be functionally literate.
 
2013-07-17 03:49:48 PM
"As a result, our teachers and schools have been forced to become surrogate parents, expected to do everything from behavioral counseling,

Often spotting issues IN THE HOME LIFE OF THE STUDENT.


 to providing adequate nutrition,

WHILE AT SCHOOL

 to teaching sex education,

YOUR POINT?

 as well as ensuring full college and career readiness."

OH MY GOD, the education institution that educated my child is going to help them prepare for MORE education? The Horror!!! The Horror!!!

Look, dickbrain, the public education system does a lot, and it's not all because of lazy parents. These people are in a unique position to study the children and spot problems, as well as exploit strengths in the child. Kids don't always have the opportunity to display talents and even social problems while at home.

Just what I needed, some NEW Utah douchebag reinforcing the stereotype that everyone here just must be certifiable. Really, this is just more of Utah's "business friendly" model. This way the kids can be made to work without school getting in the way, and for bare minimum wage, because they don't know any better.

/And no, I didn't vote for the guy, so your "Vote for someone else" argument doesn't work.
 
2013-07-17 03:51:24 PM

theknuckler_33: He sounds a little bit country.


You're close.
 
2013-07-17 03:52:29 PM
Osmond told the Deseret News that there is a need to shift the public mindset to viewing learning as an opportunity as opposed to an obligation, while also reinforcing the idea of liberty and choice.

"Let's let them choose it, let's not force them to do it," he said. "I think that's when you start seeing the shift."


But by expanding the "liberty" of the parents, you're negatively affecting the children. What happens when you get parents that don't like the devil science that happens in school, and they keep their kids home? You're perpetuating the cycle of ignorance, and the kids are the ones being harmed. If a 6-year old says, "I wanna go to school!" and the parents say, "Nope", what chance does that child have?
 
2013-07-17 03:53:41 PM

All2morrowsparTs: EvilEgg: He didn't say get rid of public education, just compulsory education.  Not everyone is cut out for book learning.

No but everyone needs to be functionally literate.


Look, Jesus Christ died for your sins, it's all right there on that big mural.   What more do you need to know!??!
 
2013-07-17 03:54:22 PM

EvilEgg: He didn't say get rid of public education, just compulsory education.  Not everyone is cut out for book learning.


We're not talking about grad school, here. We're talking about the basic skills and knowledge gained in K-12. I think every child is entitled to that.
 
2013-07-17 03:55:06 PM

BiblioTech: [www.ohio.com image 500x363]

Osmond??

/before Jimmy and Marie, the way it should be


Born in Provo, so most likely a part of the clan...

Provo is to Utah what Utah is to the rest of the country, just to put things in perspective.
 
2013-07-17 03:55:57 PM
Frankly, he has a point.  One that I have sympathy for.  If you don't want to learn you won't.  Make public education available, but non-compulsory.  Also open up youth centers to warehouse the ones who don't give a fark about education.   While I'm dreaming I'd like to see said education be free to any who are interested, and available for all grades through bachelor's degree.
 
2013-07-17 03:57:00 PM

Car_Ramrod: EvilEgg: He didn't say get rid of public education, just compulsory education.  Not everyone is cut out for book learning.

We're not talking about grad school, here. We're talking about the basic skills and knowledge gained in K-12. I think every child is entitled to that.


Socialist.

Don't you know the only ones entitled to anything are the captains of industry and finance?
 
2013-07-17 03:57:19 PM
Couple of fun facts about this guy from his web page:

Aaron Osmond

"served a 2-year mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Rome, Italy. "

Man, talk about a rough posting. No, I'm serious, trying to get the Italians to give up wine and extramarital sex. That's a man not afraid to tackle the impossible.

"In 2006, Aaron relocated back to Utah to assume the role of CEO of Real Estate Investor Education, LLC (a small company delivering specialized training in real estate and stock investing strategies for its students).  "

Those seminars in how to make millions in stocks or real estate. If you can build a business on that useless scam, you really do know how to make flowers bloom in the desert. How bootstrappy.

Impressive

/subby
//his wife is hawt
///and the 20 yr old daughter
 
2013-07-17 03:59:03 PM

Mikey1969: BiblioTech: [www.ohio.com image 500x363]

Osmond??

/before Jimmy and Marie, the way it should be

Born in Provo, so most likely a part of the clan...

Provo is to Utah what Utah is to the rest of the country, just to put things in perspective.


Aaron is the son of Virl Osmond of the Osmond Brothers.
 
2013-07-17 04:00:20 PM

theknuckler_33: He sounds a little bit country.


His wife is a little bit Rock N Roll to crank out 5 kids...
 
2013-07-17 04:01:36 PM

fifthhorseman: Frankly, he has a point.  One that I have sympathy for.  If you don't want to learn you won't.  Make public education available, but non-compulsory.  Also open up youth centers to warehouse the ones who don't give a fark about education.   While I'm dreaming I'd like to see said education be free to any who are interested, and available for all grades through bachelor's degree.


What five-year-old has the cognizance to decide that being educated is a good thing?
 
2013-07-17 04:01:47 PM

EvilEgg: He didn't say get rid of public education, just compulsory education.  Not everyone is cut out for book learning.


So these kids should just learn how to draw with their boogers? That's gonna help 'em when they move out of the house. Maybe they can put together "lists" for Cracked, or something.
 
2013-07-17 04:03:03 PM

Cheron: This is really a jobs bill.  In twenty years when you have an illiterate generation you can bring in jobs that they don't want in Bangladesh.  For those of us on the coasts this would be like having a third world country in a free trade zone.

/I'll pay 25¢/hour if they agree to work six days a week


I'm wondering the same thing.... Utah is supposed to be super "business friendly", but this would make them even friendlier to the businesses.
 
2013-07-17 04:03:38 PM
Inbreeding is bad, m'kay?
 
2013-07-17 04:04:58 PM

Serious Black: What five-year-old has the cognizance to decide that being educated is a good thing?


No, no. It's up to the parents. If the parents decide they want to keep their kid in ignorance then this legislature wants them to be able to.
 
2013-07-17 04:06:46 PM
The children of parents who are most likely to voluntarily choose not to educate their children, are the children who need education the most.

This is just red meat libertarian posturing at its finest. The fallacy that parents are disengaged because the mean ole government told them to educate their damn kids is the icing on this batshiat philosophy.
 
2013-07-17 04:08:08 PM

odinsposse: Serious Black: What five-year-old has the cognizance to decide that being educated is a good thing?

No, no. It's up to the parents. If the parents decide they want to keep their kid in ignorance abuse their child then this legislature wants them to be able to.


This is a much more realistic way of putting it.
 
2013-07-17 04:08:35 PM

Zeppelininthesky: red5ish: Compulsory education laws have resulted in parents disengaging themselves from the responsibility to oversee the education of their children

When you base your argument on a false premise you arrive at an incorrect conclusion.

Since when have facts gotten in the way of GOP stupidity?


Facts get in the way all the time; it's ignoring the facts that result in the stupidity.
I think what Osmond is doing is working backward from a desired end to create a supporting argument. He has begun with an idiotic idea - ending mandatory education - and necessarily works backward to a false premise to support it. If he stated his real reasons (he knows) people would vote for him to go make his living in the private sector.
 
2013-07-17 04:10:12 PM
Compulsory public education is what made this country great. Implemented in the 1820's, it deliberately copied the German model. The German (actually Prussian) system of compulsory public education was designed to create an irresistible army, and it did precisely that. Germany went from a collection of bickering, ineffectual statelets to the greatest power in Europe in less than a century. At the end of the 18th century people like Ben Franklin were predicting it would take hundreds of years to completely colonize the continent. It took less than 70, largely due to the superb American military system and the highly motivated and competent work force created by public education. Eliminating compulsory public education in this country would be an unmitigated disaster.

The Germans also invented the modern social welfare state in the 1880's, on the understanding that if you ask a lot from your people, you're obligated to take care of them when the need arises. They seem to be doing all right for themselves.
 
2013-07-17 04:11:06 PM

Serious Black: odinsposse: Serious Black: What five-year-old has the cognizance to decide that being educated is a good thing?

No, no. It's up to the parents. If the parents decide they want to keep their kid in ignorance abuse their child then this legislature wants them to be able to.

This is a much more realistic way of putting it.


Hey, that's not fair. When that kids grows up he is free to leave and enjoy all of the wonderful advantages of being an 18 year old without a high school education.
 
2013-07-17 04:13:09 PM

God Is My Co-Pirate: Oh my god, the comments from the TPM link:

If you're literate and Utah is not, then you will be smarter. If you don't like illiteracy, don't be illiterate.


Why don't poor people just get more money???
 
2013-07-17 04:13:45 PM
Republicans are trying REALLLY hard to take use back to 1850
 
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