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(Guardian)   Get yourself into the express lane of Purgatory. Pope Francis' Twitter followers to receive Vatican approved indulgences* (*Requisite devotion not included)   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 93
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2489 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jul 2013 at 11:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-17 11:23:21 AM
Aren't you supposed to get to the choppa?

www.anomalousmaterial.com
 
2013-07-17 11:31:18 AM
Expect Lutheran outrage.
/Are there any Lutherans on Fark?
 
2013-07-17 11:33:57 AM
Will not retweet this
 
2013-07-17 11:36:59 AM

simplicimus: Expect Lutheran outrage.
/Are there any Lutherans on Fark?


notsureifserious.jpg
 
2013-07-17 11:37:37 AM
I want to mock or joke about this but I cannot stop laughing.
 
2013-07-17 11:40:57 AM
Cardinal Glick blessed his own golf clubs.
 
2013-07-17 11:42:06 AM
www.theblindcard.com

Steve Jobs, Apple Computer, was confirmed in the LCMS.
He died October 5, 2011.

 
2013-07-17 11:43:03 AM
A Coin in the Coffer box sings/Out of Hell, One soul Springs
 
2013-07-17 11:43:47 AM
Creepy.
 
2013-07-17 11:44:16 AM

simplicimus: Expect Lutheran outrage.
/Are there any Lutherans on Fark?


I was confirmed in the Lutheran church as a kid, but since then I've drifted over to the atheist side.
 
2013-07-17 11:44:25 AM
Isn't the Express Lane supposed to be for those with 15 sins or less? Because that woman just went into it with 20 sins. Each time you commit adultery it's a sin, there's no bulk deals advertised on it.
 
2013-07-17 11:44:26 AM

simplicimus: Expect Lutheran outrage.
/Are there any Lutherans on Fark?


It took me a second, but I got it.

\Funnied.
\\Raised ELCA Lutheran
 
2013-07-17 11:44:32 AM
There has to be money involved in this somehow... most of what the RCC does is all about money.

Money is the reason that the Reformation took place.
 
2013-07-17 11:45:16 AM
I can just see St. Peter and the others at the gates of heaven now.

St. Peter: "Okay, well, who is next on the list?"
Next man in line: "Well, it's me sir."
St. Peter: "Okay, my son. What is your name?"
Man in line: "My name is James, sir."
St. Peter: "Well, okay James. Did you ever help the poor?"
James: "Well, no. I never really helped the poor."
St. Peter: "Well, did you ever try to perform service for the sick."
James: "Well, no. I think my immune system was a little on the weak side. Thought it'd be best I stayed away from the sick."
St. Peter: "Well, James, then why do you think you should be allowed in heaven?"
James: "Well, I starred quite a bit of the Vatican's tweets, sir. Even retweeted a few."
St. Peter: "Oh did you?"
James: "Yes sir."
St. Peter: "Oh well you go in the express line, it's much quicker, don't stand here. Here's your SpeedPass, just move right along."
 
2013-07-17 11:45:50 AM
I read TFH to my Catholic-raised wife this morning, who rolled her eyes and said, "Oh Jesus, not again!"

I LOL'd...
 
2013-07-17 11:46:31 AM

Jacob_Roberson: simplicimus: Expect Lutheran outrage.
/Are there any Lutherans on Fark?

notsureifserious.jpg


I now we have atheists, agnostics and Catholics here, these being the more common commenters is religious threads. Don't know the Protestant breakdown. since any such commentators don't generally identify their affiliation.
 
2013-07-17 11:47:02 AM
They are just making this shiat up as they go along aren't they?
 
2013-07-17 11:47:36 AM
The indulgence isn't for following a twitter account, it is for going through the same procedure (prayerful reflection etc.) as pilgrims, extended to those who aren't traveling to the event. This is in keeping with the Pope's encouragement to people from his home country to not travel to Rome to celebrate his becoming Pope, but to spend that money helping the poor.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-grants-indulgences-for-w or ld-youth-day/

/Just saying.
//Flees thread.
 
rpl
2013-07-17 11:47:55 AM
www.cinealfilo.com
 
2013-07-17 11:49:16 AM
Eh, let the believers earn time off in the afterlife they believe in. Who's harmed by this, and where's the outrage? Note, however, the headline is misleading (welcometofark.jpg) - you have to monitor and participate in an event which happens to be available in Twitter as one of its venues.
 
2013-07-17 11:49:51 AM
Funny Indulgences: A follow on Twitter means your soul takes less time to get to even.

Protestant Indulgences: If you give the Church straight cash we can set you up as a Bishop and have control over large sections of governments
 
2013-07-17 11:50:58 AM
I was raised Catholic.

I perform every indulgence I can think of with my boyfriend, and expect to get married in an Episcopal church.

NOW can I go to heaven?
 
2013-07-17 11:51:12 AM

simplicimus: Expect Lutheran outrage.
/Are there any Lutherans on Fark?


Yes.  But the Catholic church has been doing this since... well since Luther's day. So the outrage has been pretty much covered.

The Vatican's idea of indulgences and Purgatory is pure nonsense though, and has no basis in the Bible. I really don't understand how they perpetuate it.
 
2013-07-17 11:57:00 AM

robbiex0r: simplicimus: Expect Lutheran outrage.
/Are there any Lutherans on Fark?

Yes.  But the Catholic church has been doing this since... well since Luther's day. So the outrage has been pretty much covered.

The Vatican's idea of indulgences and Purgatory is pure nonsense though, and has no basis in the Bible. I really don't understand how they perpetuate it.


Since long before Luther. It was the selling of them that pissed Luther off.
As a Catholic, I don't see the point of Purgatory (afterlife timeout?) and the subsequent indulgences. It would (to this Catholic) indicate some problem with confession.
 
2013-07-17 11:57:52 AM
www.biography.com

"Don't make me come back down there."
 
2013-07-17 12:00:53 PM

simplicimus: Expect Lutheran outrage.
/Are there any Lutherans on Fark?


Raised Lutheran but I gave up religion for Lent years ago.
 
2013-07-17 12:03:15 PM

RoyFokker'sGhost: Isn't the Express Lane supposed to be for those with 15 sins or less? Because that woman just went into it with 20 sins. Each time you commit adultery it's a sin, there's no bulk deals advertised on it.


What's he Fark handle?
 
2013-07-17 12:03:15 PM
robbiex0r:

Yes.  But the Catholic church has been doing this since... well since Luther's day. So the outrage has been pretty much covered.

The Vatican's idea of indulgences and Purgatory is pure nonsense though, and has no basis in the Bible. I really don't understand how they perpetuate it.


The doctrine of indulgences boils down to the idea that the pious acts we do during life can impact the state of souls in the afterlife; that is, we can pray for the sins of those who are dead to be forgiven.  Scriptural justification for this is 2 Maccabees 12:40-46, which Luther and the other reformers excised from their Bibles.
 
2013-07-17 12:05:59 PM

blockhouse:
The doctrine of indulgences boils down to the idea that the pious acts we do during life can impact the state of souls in the afterlife; that is, we can pray for the sins of those who are dead to be forgiven.  Scriptural justification for this is 2 Maccabees 12:40-46, which Luther and the other reformers excised from their Bibles.


It's the Word of God, though right?

Don't like what it says? Delete that sh*t.


/raised Lutheran
//agnostic now
 
2013-07-17 12:06:53 PM
I follow both @Pontifex, and Pope Michael, the antipope in Kansas.

I think I'm in good shape, spiritually.
 
2013-07-17 12:17:15 PM
simplicimus
As a Catholic, I don't see the point of Purgatory (afterlife timeout?) and the subsequent indulgences. It would (to this Catholic) indicate some problem with confession.

The way it was described to me is that sin has two effects.  One is that it offends against almighty God and His justice, the other is that it causes damage to our relationship with Him and our neighbor and the rest of creation.  The first of these has eternal consequences, the other has only temporal consequences.  The absolution given in Confession is the remittance of the first of these; you are once again in good stead with God, but you still have to make up for the damage you've caused -- hence that's why the priest will assign you a penance to be performed after you get your absolution.

Think of it this way: let's say you're a kid and you and the other kids are playing a game of baseball in the street, even though your father has told you not to play there.  Let's further say that you play there anyway, you hit the ball and you break your father's window.  Now not only does that piss your father off, it also leaves him with a broken window.  Now you go to your father, tell him what you've done, apologize, and he accepts your apology.  There's still the matter of the broken window, which remains broken even though he's accepted your apology.  In all justice, you should be expected to pay to replace the window, even though it's not a necessary precondition to your father's forgiveness, but because it repairs the damage you've caused.

Extending the analogy, getting an indulgence for someone is like buying them a pane of glass to replace the window they broke.  If they're not repentant and they refuse to apologize for breaking the glass, then buying them the glass isn't going to do any good -- they have to be sorry about it first and be forgiven.
 
2013-07-17 12:20:16 PM

robbiex0r: simplicimus: Expect Lutheran outrage.
/Are there any Lutherans on Fark?

Yes.  But the Catholic church has been doing this since... well since Luther's day. So the outrage has been pretty much covered.

The Vatican's idea of indulgences and Purgatory is pure nonsense though, and has no basis in the Bible. I really don't understand how they perpetuate it.


Power. Religion is all about power. And money. Scurr the little people into obedience. Purgatory is like eternity's drunk tank. Which, given the number of Catholic priests and nuns I know who are drunks, makes sense when you think about it...
 
2013-07-17 12:21:45 PM

simplicimus: As a Catholic, I don't see the point of Purgatory (afterlife timeout?) and the subsequent indulgences. It would (to this Catholic) indicate some problem with confession.


Indulgence is only tangentially connected to confession.

God has mercy: so you confess and are forgiven.  No Hell for you.
God is just: so you need to repay for the bad stuff.  Thus you are in purgatory

Think of it like this: You are a 10 yo kid.  You accidentally set the family car on fire.  Pure justice demands your parents have you arrested, tried, convicted, and sent up the river - while also suing you for the damage.  Instead, you tell them what you did, and beg for forgiveness.  So, your parents don't do any of the above, and suck up the loss.  But you better damn well believe you are gonna be spending some quality time in your room and/or doing lawn work.  That is Purgatory, because even God isn't that big of a hippie.

/Also, indulgence has been part fo the Church since at least the 600s.
//Luther was pissed not at them existing, but the Church treating them as a straight financial transaction
///Luther was also a raging emo drama queen with more than a bit of megalomania, so just cause he was against it, doesn't mean it was bad
////prolapsed Methodist
 
2013-07-17 12:23:08 PM
Dammit. Ninjaed by  blockhouse
 
2013-07-17 12:25:23 PM

blockhouse: The way it was described to me is that sin has two effects.  One is that it offends against almighty God and His justice


Why would God create beings that have the ability to piss Him off? If I write a software program, I'm not going to write one that I know will be able to turn against me.
 
2013-07-17 12:26:22 PM

Foundling: I was raised Catholic.

I perform every indulgence I can think of with my boyfriend, and expect to get married in an Episcopal church.

NOW can I go to heaven?


Unless you and your boyfriend say the Rosary before the Blessed Sacrament and make pilgrimages to churches on their patronal feast days, I'm guessing that you mean a different kind of indulgence.  If that's the case, 1 Cor 6:9 cautions you that if you don't restrain the lusts of the flesh, you will not go to heaven no matter who marries you.
 
2013-07-17 12:28:31 PM
26.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-07-17 12:30:02 PM

Mugato: blockhouse: The way it was described to me is that sin has two effects.  One is that it offends against almighty God and His justice

Why would God create beings that have the ability to piss Him off? If I write a software program, I'm not going to write one that I know will be able to turn against me.


Well, for one, human beings are not software programs.
 
2013-07-17 12:30:45 PM

blockhouse: simplicimus
As a Catholic, I don't see the point of Purgatory (afterlife timeout?) and the subsequent indulgences. It would (to this Catholic) indicate some problem with confession.

The way it was described to me is that sin has two effects.  One is that it offends against almighty God and His justice, the other is that it causes damage to our relationship with Him and our neighbor and the rest of creation.  The first of these has eternal consequences, the other has only temporal consequences.  The absolution given in Confession is the remittance of the first of these; you are once again in good stead with God, but you still have to make up for the damage you've caused -- hence that's why the priest will assign you a penance to be performed after you get your absolution.

Think of it this way: let's say you're a kid and you and the other kids are playing a game of baseball in the street, even though your father has told you not to play there.  Let's further say that you play there anyway, you hit the ball and you break your father's window.  Now not only does that piss your father off, it also leaves him with a broken window.  Now you go to your father, tell him what you've done, apologize, and he accepts your apology.  There's still the matter of the broken window, which remains broken even though he's accepted your apology.  In all justice, you should be expected to pay to replace the window, even though it's not a necessary precondition to your father's forgiveness, but because it repairs the damage you've caused.

Extending the analogy, getting an indulgence for someone is like buying them a pane of glass to replace the window they broke.  If they're not repentant and they refuse to apologize for breaking the glass, then buying them the glass isn't going to do any good -- they have to be sorry about it first and be forgiven.


If they are repentant, they'll volunteer to replace the glass by handing over their allowance or doing chores for the cash or something along those lines, plus not play ball in the street when told not to--whether they apologize or not. Repentance is an act, whether words are used or not. Words are not meaningless, but 'as a man thinks in his heart, so is he.' (Taking that a bit out of context, but since it is a part of Proverbs, it's a bit hard to take it out of context. What it means is that thoughts become actions. In this particular example, if you are sorry, you will behave like an individual who is sorry and not repeat the action.)

I do see the point you are making, re: indulgences. But conversely, from a purely scriptural point of view (this pertains to those who believe in Christ only and has no bearing on anyone who does not), both purgatory and indulgences are unnecessary with the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. To continue in the doctrine of purgatory and indulgences is to deny Christ as Messiah (Savior)--to deny the atoning work of the crucifixion and resurrection and to say that Christ was unworthy to be the perfect sacrifice for your sins. How incredibly arrogant to think that a priest--a man--is more qualified to judge or absolve than Christ; how arrogant to presume that a man knows better than God what is sufficient to pay for sin. The doctrine of purgatory and indulgences rejects scripture and rejects Christ wholly. Period.
 
2013-07-17 12:31:28 PM

Mugato: blockhouse: The way it was described to me is that sin has two effects.  One is that it offends against almighty God and His justice

Why would God create beings that have the ability to piss Him off? If I write a software program, I'm not going to write one that I know will be able to turn against me.


Because who wants friends who are robots?

It's the origin of evil thing.  Good and evil require actual choice - otherwise it is programmed behavior.  If you can actually pick the good option, then you can actually pick the evil option also.  It's the bug you have to deal with to get the feature
 
2013-07-17 12:31:56 PM

Aigoo: robbiex0r: simplicimus: Expect Lutheran outrage.
/Are there any Lutherans on Fark?

Yes.  But the Catholic church has been doing this since... well since Luther's day. So the outrage has been pretty much covered.

The Vatican's idea of indulgences and Purgatory is pure nonsense though, and has no basis in the Bible. I really don't understand how they perpetuate it.

Power. Religion is all about power. And money. Scurr the little people into obedience. Purgatory is like eternity's drunk tank. Which, given the number of Catholic priests and nuns I know who are drunks, makes sense when you think about it...


Can I get an indulgence for completing the 12 steps?
 
2013-07-17 12:32:09 PM
This is not a repeat from ~500 years ago.
 
2013-07-17 12:35:53 PM

phalamir: Mugato: blockhouse: The way it was described to me is that sin has two effects.  One is that it offends against almighty God and His justice

Why would God create beings that have the ability to piss Him off? If I write a software program, I'm not going to write one that I know will be able to turn against me.

Because who wants friends who are robots?

It's the origin of evil thing.  Good and evil require actual choice - otherwise it is programmed behavior.  If you can actually pick the good option, then you can actually pick the evil option also.  It's the bug you have to deal with to get the feature


Right but He would intentionally create creatures with instincts that will directly piss Him off? It sounds like sadism.
 
2013-07-17 12:39:02 PM

simplicimus: Aigoo: robbiex0r: simplicimus: Expect Lutheran outrage.
/Are there any Lutherans on Fark?

Yes.  But the Catholic church has been doing this since... well since Luther's day. So the outrage has been pretty much covered.

The Vatican's idea of indulgences and Purgatory is pure nonsense though, and has no basis in the Bible. I really don't understand how they perpetuate it.

Power. Religion is all about power. And money. Scurr the little people into obedience. Purgatory is like eternity's drunk tank. Which, given the number of Catholic priests and nuns I know who are drunks, makes sense when you think about it...

Can I get an indulgence for completing the 12 steps?


You can get a partial indulgence for any pious act, really.  But the purpose of the act must be for the glory of God and salvation of souls, not merely the salvation of your liver.
 
2013-07-17 12:39:45 PM

simplicimus: Aigoo: robbiex0r: simplicimus: Expect Lutheran outrage.
/Are there any Lutherans on Fark?

Yes.  But the Catholic church has been doing this since... well since Luther's day. So the outrage has been pretty much covered.

The Vatican's idea of indulgences and Purgatory is pure nonsense though, and has no basis in the Bible. I really don't understand how they perpetuate it.

Power. Religion is all about power. And money. Scurr the little people into obedience. Purgatory is like eternity's drunk tank. Which, given the number of Catholic priests and nuns I know who are drunks, makes sense when you think about it...

Can I get an indulgence for completing the 12 steps?


Ask a priest. I'm not Catholic. Actually, let me ask one for you--I'm related to a few, LOL.
 
2013-07-17 12:40:47 PM

Mugato: phalamir: Mugato: blockhouse: The way it was described to me is that sin has two effects.  One is that it offends against almighty God and His justice

Why would God create beings that have the ability to piss Him off? If I write a software program, I'm not going to write one that I know will be able to turn against me.

Because who wants friends who are robots?

It's the origin of evil thing.  Good and evil require actual choice - otherwise it is programmed behavior.  If you can actually pick the good option, then you can actually pick the evil option also.  It's the bug you have to deal with to get the feature

Right but He would intentionally create creatures with instincts that will directly piss Him off? It sounds like sadism.


Those instincts are good of themselves; it is the immoderate and unreasonable use that we make of them that constitutes sin.
 
2013-07-17 12:42:15 PM

blockhouse: simplicimus: Aigoo: robbiex0r: simplicimus: Expect Lutheran outrage.
/Are there any Lutherans on Fark?

Yes.  But the Catholic church has been doing this since... well since Luther's day. So the outrage has been pretty much covered.

The Vatican's idea of indulgences and Purgatory is pure nonsense though, and has no basis in the Bible. I really don't understand how they perpetuate it.

Power. Religion is all about power. And money. Scurr the little people into obedience. Purgatory is like eternity's drunk tank. Which, given the number of Catholic priests and nuns I know who are drunks, makes sense when you think about it...

Can I get an indulgence for completing the 12 steps?

You can get a partial indulgence for any pious act, really.  But the purpose of the act must be for the glory of God and salvation of souls, not merely the salvation of your liver.


Ah, but--said pious act inevitably results in the saving of lives and the salvation of souls from what I have witnessed. Therefore, by that logic, indulgence granted. (Note: not Catholic, not a priest or nun, just going by blockhouse's explanation)
 
2013-07-17 12:45:18 PM

blockhouse: Those instincts are good of themselves; it is the immoderate and unreasonable use that we make of them that constitutes sin.


I dunno, any god who drowns an entire planet because he's pissed at their behavior that he gave them seems like a C- god at the local Deity 101 class at the community learning annex at best.
 
2013-07-17 12:45:33 PM

blockhouse: Mugato: phalamir: Mugato: blockhouse: The way it was described to me is that sin has two effects.  One is that it offends against almighty God and His justice

Why would God create beings that have the ability to piss Him off? If I write a software program, I'm not going to write one that I know will be able to turn against me.

Because who wants friends who are robots?

It's the origin of evil thing.  Good and evil require actual choice - otherwise it is programmed behavior.  If you can actually pick the good option, then you can actually pick the evil option also.  It's the bug you have to deal with to get the feature

Right but He would intentionally create creatures with instincts that will directly piss Him off? It sounds like sadism.

Those instincts are good of themselves; it is the immoderate and unreasonable use that we make of them that constitutes sin.


Why would God create robots that have no choice but to love and worship Him? Seriously, why would anyone--Supreme Being or not--want to be loved by anyone who had no choice but to do so? Blockhouse is right--there's nothing wrong with instinct or emotion--it's all in how we choose to act on it. If, in my anger (justified or not), I choose to remain angry for 20 years or to stab them because I'm pissed, then it becomes sin. It's not rocket surgery.
 
2013-07-17 12:47:53 PM

Mugato: blockhouse: The way it was described to me is that sin has two effects.  One is that it offends against almighty God and His justice

Why would God create beings that have the ability to piss Him off? If I write a software program, I'm not going to write one that I know will be able to turn against me.


Heard of Skynet much?
 
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