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(NPR)   Hello, and welcome to Olive Garden. My name is Snowflake, and I'll be your genderqueer postgrad waitron this evening. I'll tell you our specials in a moment, but first, let me tell you that my preferred gender pronoun for tonight is   (npr.org ) divider line
    More: Stupid, Olive Garden, Oberlin College, homeless youth, students' association, snowflakes, graduate schools, genders  
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21145 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jul 2013 at 6:49 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-17 01:13:47 PM  

WhippingBoy: ch13fwiggum: Aulus: OK, maybe it's because I am hetero and in  my mid-sixties, but were I in such a situation and someone I had never met chose to introduce themself that way, I'd get up and walk out.

Look, I do not care how you conduct yourself gender or sexual wise in private, but do not feel the need to slap me in the face with it when we are not interacting intimately and/or in public and especially if we have never met and are unlikely to in the future.

IOW, STFU and act like an adult.

It's not like you're getting slapped in a face with a cock, fer chrissakes.

Lighten up. Uh oh, mature 60-ish year old man is uncomfortable with something he's unfamiliar with... That's a real newsflash.

How very ageist of you.


Age is just a number.
 
2013-07-17 01:15:01 PM  

ox45tallboy: They're calling for more fluid categories beyond just male and female, as NPR's Margot Adler explains.

I'm totally fine with people who were born with a different sexual identity than what matches their naughty bits. It happens sometimes, and these days, there is no reason not to live a happy and fulfilled life wearing the gender in which you feel comfortable


I was born with the wrong athletic identity...I was meant to be able to slam-dunk a basketball, but instead I'm a white dude that's barely 6 feet. I'm going to live my life as a 6' 10" black dude though, and I want every that meets me to congratulate me on my many NBA All-Star Game appearances.

/we're born. That's it. Nobody's meant to be anything else. Make the best of what you have, be happy. Trying to change it is, at best, wearing a costume and, at worst, living a lie to yourself.
 
2013-07-17 01:16:16 PM  

codergirl42: Age is just a number.


That's what I told the jury but I still have to introduce myself to all the neighbors every time I move.
 
2013-07-17 01:17:18 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: That's what I told the jury but I still have to introduce myself to all the neighbors every time I move.


What's a pederast, Walter?
 
2013-07-17 01:19:45 PM  

Nabb1: And people wonder why we are lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math education and more and more high tech jobs are headed overseas.


Dude, look at the historical data-- we have always lagged behind other industrialized nations in standardized testing. We have never led in any subject standard tests, ever.

The only reason why we ever 'led' was because of the vacuum left by Germany and Japan after they collapsed by losing WWII.

The reason why we are lagging behind now, isn't because we have to come accept different gender identities, like other industrialized nations already do; but because of the stupidness of our populace.
 
2013-07-17 01:20:09 PM  
All I know is that nothing makes me respect somebody quite like having to walk on egg-shells every time I interact with them
 
2013-07-17 01:20:23 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: willfullyobscure: Yes, i hear they LOOOOVE the males that retain their penises, cross dress and then expect to be able to hop into bed with lesbians and call the females transphobic if they don't agree to touch their "female penis".

Isn't the important thing that they identify as female? So what if they love other women in the same way as a cis-gendered lesbian?

Feminists LOOOOVE it when men dress up like women and try to claim they're as oppressed as actual females.

I think you may have stumbled onto the problem. Oppression is a valuable commodity. Can't have the wrong people claiming it, can we?


that is correct. Otherkin and transwhatevers getting all their little feels hurted because they act out against social norms is not in the same class as reproductive oppression and they shouldn't be lumped together, and the latter should be the number one priority for anyone interested in actually improving social justice. Race should be number two and playing dress up and choosing your own pronoun  should be maybe no. 15, somewhere after clean dressing rooms for amateur comedians

Fundamentally, transderps and those who indulge in stereotypical gender antics have a choice- to act out or to conform- and that is a privilege a baby-making female simply does have. there is no conformation/choice/exercise of privilege that will not get her off the hook for discrimination and abuse based on her biology. There's some room to include those with actual, medical intersex problems, but that's about where you have to draw the line.

I'd say its easy to see where the real oppression is.
 
2013-07-17 01:20:43 PM  

CowardlyLion: RobSeace: CowardlyLion: Okay, so, if you're already well aware of the problems with existing English pronouns

What exactly is wrong with singular they for gender-neutral pronouns? It's got a long, well-established history of English usage... Christ, Shakespeare even used it! It works perfectly well, and I see no needs it's not fulfilling which would be better served by newly invented bullshiat words like "zee", "zim", and "zer"...

What's wrong with coming up with a new word that doesn't have an ambiguous or confusing meaning (as long as it doesn't start with a z, x, or other useless letter)?


In what way is singular they ambiguous or confusing? It's used quite regularly, and has been for hundreds of years, and is pretty well understood by all... Who exactly is confused by it? It's generally pretty easy to tell from the context of usage if you mean it singularly or plurally...

The problem with inventing a whole new set of pronouns is convincing every other English speaker on the planet to adopt them... They all already know the singular they/them/their, and surely use it themselves... They will be unfamiliar with any new words you invent, and even when they learn of them will likely be resistant to using them, since they seem unnecessary duplicative of singular they... (Especially if they sound ridiculous, like "zee" or "ou"...)
 
2013-07-17 01:21:29 PM  

WhippingBoy: All I know is that nothing makes me respect somebody quite like having to walk on egg-shells every time I interact with them zir.


FTFY
 
2013-07-17 01:23:27 PM  

Smackledorfer: Why it is so difficult to believe, in a world where entire extra genes wind up in people in a species that should only have 26 pairs, that some people get born with an error combination of male and female, I have no idea.


What other mutant powers can they have? Maybe we should be looking into gene therapy to help cure them
 
2013-07-17 01:24:21 PM  
This seemed possibly relevant, just saw it while clicking through another article:

"A Boy's Camp to Redefine Gender"

Because  you know, not gender conformation.
 
2013-07-17 01:30:07 PM  

Maggie_Luna: This seemed possibly relevant, just saw it while clicking through another article:

"A Boy's Camp to Redefine Gender"

Because  you know, not gender conformation.



www.slate.com

That kid on the right looks pretty damned happy. Good thing he's not being oppressed by gender stereotypical modes of entertainment like sports or outdoor play.

/also, someone's getting mercilessly teased if those pictures ever get out
 
2013-07-17 01:31:19 PM  
If you have a dick, I'm gonna call you "He".

If you have a vag, I'm gonna call you "she"

Don't like it?  Tough shiat.  Go cry somewhere.
 
2013-07-17 01:32:51 PM  
How about you let me enjoy my meal with no mention of your sexuality whatsoever, you f*cking idiot? I dont give a shiat whats dangling between your legs,  just give me decent service and youll get a tip.
 
2013-07-17 01:34:34 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: mrshowrules: The point is not the pronoun solution, it is that people are thinking/talking about it.  The empathy itself is the point of the exercise.  What comes out of might be important/significant but that it is happening is cool in and of itself.

So the plan is to build empathy by being generally annoying? Have you really thought this through? I know the old axiom that "any publicity is good publicity" but I'm not certain that applies to every situation.


If they are being annoying about it, it could be counter-productive.  True.  If they are exploring the subject with intelligence and empathy, at minimum it is interesting subject.  At best, it could help people with gender identity issues.  In any case, a school certainly seems like the appropriate place for this type of experiment.
 
2013-07-17 01:34:43 PM  

Scrotastic Method: /we're born. That's it. Nobody's meant to be anything else. Make the best of what you have, be happy. Trying to change it is, at best, wearing a costume and, at worst, living a lie to yourself.


Wise words.  Or rather, they would be wise words if everything was simplyl black and white and there was no ambiguity with a person's gender and/or sex.
 
2013-07-17 01:39:32 PM  

Scrotastic Method: I was born with the wrong athletic identity...I was meant to be able to slam-dunk a basketball, but instead I'm a white dude that's barely 6 feet. I'm going to live my life as a 6' 10" black dude though, and I want every that meets me to congratulate me on my many NBA All-Star Game appearances.

/we're born. That's it. Nobody's meant to be anything else. Make the best of what you have, be happy. Trying to change it is, at best, wearing a costume and, at worst, living a lie to yourself.


If you hand a human brain to a scientist, they can tell you whether the person was a male or a female without needing a genetics test.

If you hand them the brain of a transgendered person, their assessment matches the new gender, not the birth gender.

Does that have an impact on your opinion?
 
2013-07-17 01:41:07 PM  

FatPrincess: I actually do believe in thin privilege


Oh yeah, absolutely. Fit people, tall people, attractive people, they all experience a measurable advantage in social and business interactions. There is no doubt about it and it's wired into us at the genetic level. It is fair? Probably not but you may as well try to hold back the tide.
 
2013-07-17 01:48:04 PM  

Ontos: If you have a dick, I'm gonna call you "He".

If you have a vag, I'm gonna call you "she"

Don't like it?  Tough shiat.  Go cry somewhere.


I think people would do more than just cry if you are constantly checking the contents of their underwear any time you talk to them.

/on the plus side, you'll get to introduce yourself to all your neighbors in person
 
2013-07-17 01:48:58 PM  

Theaetetus: Ontos: If you have a dick, I'm gonna call you "He".

If you have a vag, I'm gonna call you "she"

Don't like it?  Tough shiat.  Go cry somewhere.

I think people would do more than just cry if you are constantly checking the contents of their underwear any time you talk to them.

/on the plus side, you'll get to introduce yourself to all your neighbors in person prison.


FTFY
 
2013-07-17 01:49:23 PM  

vygramul: If you hand them the brain of a transgendered person, their assessment matches the new gender, not the birth gender.


That is pretty tough if they made up the gender...
 
2013-07-17 01:52:28 PM  

vygramul: If you hand a human brain to a scientist, they can tell you whether the person was a male or a female without needing a genetics test.

If you hand them the brain of a transgendered person, their assessment matches the new gender, not the birth gender.


Yep. My bet on homosexuality and/or transgender identity is that it is primarily a function of maternal hormone balance during gestation. From a genetic perspective there is very little difference between a male and female but development from those genetics is controlled by hormones which switch various gene complexes on and off. Maybe there is a small subset of the population that has some intermediate brain structure and hormone mix which causes them to fail to strongly identify as any particular gender. There is no shame in that just as there is no shame in being homosexual or transgender. But I suspect that particular situation is relatively rare and maybe restructuring language around it is probably not a worthwhile use of time.
 
2013-07-17 01:52:39 PM  

ox45tallboy: They're calling for more fluid categories beyond just male and female, as NPR's Margot Adler explains.

I'm totally fine with people who were born with a different sexual identity than what matches their naughty bits. It happens sometimes, and these days, there is no reason not to live a happy and fulfilled life wearing the gender in which you feel comfortable, and having sexual relations with whichever consenting adults wish to do so. Having said that, if your gender identity is changing,on a regular basis, perhaps you need to seek professional help. This is not normal or healthy, and other people catering to this whim is not helpful to your mental health.


Well, if anyone were actually doing that you...okay, you still wouldn't have a point, if it can't be cured sometimes catering  is the most ethical thing, but they aren't doing that to begin with. Some people are a  mix of male and female. Think of it like a line with pink at one end and blue at the other. Somewhere in the middle you mix pink and blue. Maybe one person has a bit more pink, maybe one person has a bit more blue...those are the people that are being discussed. They're called genderqueer, I believe. Their identity doesn't 'change on a regular basis'; they just are in the middle of that line instead of at the ends.

/It's not as complicated as it sounds. But their genders stay fixed for their life; it's just  not on the ends of the spectrum you or I are on.
 
2013-07-17 01:52:52 PM  

FatPrincess: alice_600: Wow! How bigoted of you to point that out. Let me guess you also believe in thin privilege and that heterosexual anything is rape. So what else did you blindly believe in your women's studies classes taught by your hysterically insane professor?

Jees, take the blue pill.


I don't take pills or make references to movies that I stopped watching years ago.
 
2013-07-17 01:53:26 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Maggie_Luna: This seemed possibly relevant, just saw it while clicking through another article:

"A Boy's Camp to Redefine Gender"

Because  you know, not gender conformation.


[www.slate.com image 850x491]

That kid on the right looks pretty damned happy. Good thing he's not being oppressed by gender stereotypical modes of entertainment like sports or outdoor play.

/also, someone's getting mercilessly teased if those pictures ever get out


That's pretty disturbing. Almost akin to child endangerment in my opinion. They're seriously going to damage those kids lives forever because they themselves are so insecure. My guess is that it's radical feminists who hate the male sex so much that they want to turn their boys (should've had an abortion) into girls. Because that's pretty much what it always is. It's females who want to turn their boys into girls. It's almost never the other way around. Why? Because the male gender identity and sexuality isn't something that should be encouraged. Sickening.

Of course, it'll never stick. Give it a few years and those kids are all going to go back to their "gender roles". You can mold small children to almost anything you want. Unfortunately parents take advantage of that.
 
2013-07-17 01:56:46 PM  

evoke: It's females who want to turn their boys into girls. It's almost never the other way around.


Yeah, you never see fathers encouraging their daughters to play sports, study math, and spend less time being concerned with how they look.
 
2013-07-17 01:57:18 PM  

evoke: Of course, it'll never stick. Give it a few years and those kids are all going to go back to their "gender roles".


Don't kid yourself, with enough shame and punishment those children can be herded into a lifetime of personal anguish and denial.
 
2013-07-17 01:58:57 PM  

Mock26: Scrotastic Method: /we're born. That's it. Nobody's meant to be anything else. Make the best of what you have, be happy. Trying to change it is, at best, wearing a costume and, at worst, living a lie to yourself.

Wise words.  Or rather, they would be wise words if everything was simplyl black and white and there was no ambiguity with a person's gender and/or sex.


Born with a penis? You're male. Born with a vagina? Female. That's pretty black and white. Are you homosexual? Separate issue. Are you one of the one in every few billion humans with a legitimate gender mutation? Sure, there are considerations there. But if you just think you're "supposed" to have been something different, well then, what's the foundational argument -- your soul is in the wrong body? You didn't get what you want? The first of those is nonsense and the second is a too-bad-for-you problem.

It's like this no-gluten crap. Do some people have celiac disease? Absolutely. Very, very few people, but some. Do you ever see complaints about gluten allergies in developing, third-world, or even lower-class situations? Of course not. Were our grandparents worried about it? Has it come up in past generations as a basic concern of humanity? No. It's a burden of free time, a problem of convenience, or a sign of mental illness to start pondering your "true gender identity" or some such nonsense.
 
2013-07-17 01:59:43 PM  

here to help: bunner: You could try coming up with a different handle. = )

But I AM helping.

;-)


You are helping no one but yourself.
 
2013-07-17 02:00:18 PM  
If you hand them the brain of a transgendered person, their assessment matches the new gender, not the birth gender.

Simplified to the point of falsity.
 
2013-07-17 02:00:20 PM  

alice_600: You are helping no one but yourself.


That's a kind of helping.
 
2013-07-17 02:00:48 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: GoldSpider: MechaPyx: Seriously, would you want to be brainwashed?

I bet you're with the militant deaf who oppose cochlear implants on the grounds that they are destructive to the "deaf community".

Thanks, I really didn't need to be reminded of those assholes. They can spend their lives in silence for all I care. What infuriates me is when they lobby against implants for children.


Are you guys serious? that's a farking real thing?

willfullyobscure:
Yes, i hear they LOOOOVE the males that retain their penises, cross dress and then expect to be able to hop into bed with lesbians and call the females transphobic if they don't agree to touch their "female penis". Feminists LOOOOVE it when men dress up like women and try to claim they're as oppressed as actual females.

same statement.

WhippingBoy:
How very ageist of you.


OK, now age bias is totally unrelated.  We have now reached the point of a fark-tarded thread.  I'm calling it.  Good afternoon, good evening and good night.
 
2013-07-17 02:01:28 PM  

WhippingBoy: All I know is that nothing makes me respect somebody quite like having to walk on egg-shells every time I interact with them


If by respect you mean get fed up and say fark it, not worth the aggravation then yes.
 
2013-07-17 02:02:22 PM  

thurstonxhowell: evoke: It's females who want to turn their boys into girls. It's almost never the other way around.

Yeah, you never see fathers encouraging their daughters to play sports, study math, and spend less time being concerned with how they look.


So that's what boys do.  I see.
 
2013-07-17 02:03:31 PM  

Stained Glass Shattering: If you hand them the brain of a transgendered person, their assessment matches the new gender, not the birth gender.

Simplified to the point of falsity.


He didn't include the standard statistical hedges but it's close enough for government work. The big question is whether the structural differences in transgenders is pre or post hormone therapy.
 
2013-07-17 02:06:35 PM  

Theaetetus: Monkeyhouse Zendo: Theaetetus: As an aside, this is a protocol negotiation, and you're a noncompliant partner. One participant has said "I wish to communicate using X definitions," and you say "No." In view of that, why should anyone continue communicating with you?

Zir is incompatible with the current protocol version. The following personal pronouns are recognized: he, her, his, hers, them, their, it, its.

Ah, you're obsolete. Gotcha.


More like you're using a forked alpha protocol version instead of the recognized standard and expect everyone to switch to that long before it has become a standard.
 
2013-07-17 02:11:15 PM  

GoldSpider: Smackledorfer: How about this. You tell me what you think he said.

That we're wasting our collective brainpower on solving contrived problems while the rest of world surpasses us on solving real ones.


Then you should agree with my characterization of Nabb1's statement. "And people wonder why we are lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math education and more and more high tech jobs are headed overseas." which I mocked for being so stupid as to suggest that jobs are headed overseas as a result of time wasted on the LGBT rights movement.  It isn't that I felt he was attacking the LGBT community so much as saying that time spent worrying about their problems was somehow time taken away from advancing math and science.  It isn't.

I hope you don't seriously believe the sociologists of the country could be re-purposed away from their interests and skill-sets and be moved into the world of math, chemistry, physics, etc? Or do you think we could add one science or math student for every sociology student we eliminate? Not only does the world not work that, nor will you get anything useful out of forcing someone who doesn't like science and math into the field, but our issues with jobs going overseas has nothing to do with the number of liberal arts majors we produce; it has to do with how much less money it costs a business to hire someone overseas.   We aren't losing ground to the most advanced of the science, math, and tech countries for their intellectual superiority in the fields, we are simply seeing a free market pick a cheaper employee.

It makes as much sense to blame people interested in LGBT issues for some perceived downfall in our university level science and math as it would to blame a dedicated chef for it. Further, even if you could take the gifted chef, actor, writer, etc and make them a hard scientist, you wouldn't accomplish much if they weren't interested in performing that task.

But I could be wrong.  Maybe we should move to some kind of socialism and make scientific advancement the number one goal. We could get rid of sociology, psychology, ban fiction and the arts, and move all the money spent on those things directly to the physics departments. If all the money spent on harry potter books was spent on interstellar travel we could send a man to mars!

I imagine this is where you claim I am yet again misinterpreting a statement that I suspect was deliberately left as bereft of specifics as possible to leave yourself the wiggle room.
 
2013-07-17 02:13:46 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: From a genetic perspective there is very little difference between a male and female


Someone doesn't understand what "very little" means in the context of genetics.  It is quite large.  The X chromosome isn't anywhere close to the Y, and boy howdy you should see what happens when an extra X gets thrown into the mix.
 
2013-07-17 02:15:12 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: But I suspect that particular situation is relatively rare and maybe restructuring language around it is probably not a worthwhile use of time.


Exactly how much time and effort do you think throwing an extra pronoun into the mix would take? I think I sense another case of the vapors coming on.
 
2013-07-17 02:25:15 PM  

Smackledorfer: Monkeyhouse Zendo: From a genetic perspective there is very little difference between a male and female

Someone doesn't understand what "very little" means in the context of genetics.  It is quite large.  The X chromosome isn't anywhere close to the Y, and boy howdy you should see what happens when an extra X gets thrown into the mix.


So one chromosome pair out of 23, one chromosome out of 46, 2.1% of genetic data provided that there are no gene complexes in common between the X and Y.

Do you have a problem with my main premise regarding hormones controlling whether gene complexes are enabled/disabled or are you just nitpicking?
 
2013-07-17 02:28:07 PM  

Stained Glass Shattering: thurstonxhowell: evoke: It's females who want to turn their boys into girls. It's almost never the other way around.

Yeah, you never see fathers encouraging their daughters to play sports, study math, and spend less time being concerned with how they look.

So that's what boys do.  I see.


Boys who conform to traditional gender roles, yes. Those are some hallmarks of the traditional male gender role. Do you disagree? Accepting that some people don't conform to traditional gender roles and shouldn't have to doesn't mean I have to pretend that traditional gender roles don't exist.

Fathers guiding their daughters to act more closely to the traditional male gender role is considered normal and even beneficial, while a boy being guided toward a traditional female role is considered emasculating, confusing, and harmful. Why is that?
 
2013-07-17 02:28:38 PM  

Smackledorfer: Exactly how much time and effort do you think throwing an extra pronoun into the mix would take? I think I sense another case of the vapors coming on.


How many man hours have just been spent discussing a single article on personal gender pronouns?

I think I'll set the amount of time and effort at "nontrivial".
 
2013-07-17 02:28:49 PM  

PsiChick: Well, if anyone were actually doing that you...okay, you still wouldn't have a point, if it can't be cured sometimes catering  is the most ethical thing, but they aren't doing that to begin with. Some people are a  mix of male and female. Think of it like a line with pink at one end and blue at the other. Somewhere in the middle you mix pink and blue. Maybe one person has a bit more pink, maybe one person has a bit more blue...those are the people that are being discussed. They're called genderqueer, I believe. Their identity doesn't 'change on a regular basis'; they just are in the middle of that line instead of at the ends.

/It's not as complicated as it sounds. But their genders stay fixed for their life; it's just  not on the ends of the spectrum you or I are on.


Actually, the part of TFA that I quoted was referring to people who do just that - change gender identities on a regular basis. This is not normal, any more than a person with bipolar disorder is normal - the brain should not work in such a way that one of the foundations of one's ego, one's personality, one's id, etc. - is "fluid" and subject to random changes.

This is a medical problem and can be helped with modern science. I repeat my assertion that catering to a person's whims with regards to seemingly random day-to-day changes of their desired gender-specific pronoun is not helpful to them, any more than catering to the whims of a person with bipolar disorder is helpful to them. It may make your dealings with that person somewhat easier, but it does not help that person.

I do understand that over time, one's perception of oneself, as well as one's perception of a gender, or even the actual way society behaves towards a gender, might cause someone to eventually feel more comfortable in a different gender identity. This is actually normal; just as people change over time and become grumpier in general, or sometimes more generous, or happier in general, so might one's sexual identity gradually change. I am referring specifically to those with "fluid" gender identities that are subject to random fluctuations, characterized by the insistence that others treat them as if they are a different gender on different days. This can often be a sign of schizophrenia or other psychological issues. This is not the Stone Age. We have medical treatments that can help.
 
2013-07-17 02:30:35 PM  

vygramul: Scrotastic Method: I was born with the wrong athletic identity...I was meant to be able to slam-dunk a basketball, but instead I'm a white dude that's barely 6 feet. I'm going to live my life as a 6' 10" black dude though, and I want every that meets me to congratulate me on my many NBA All-Star Game appearances.

/we're born. That's it. Nobody's meant to be anything else. Make the best of what you have, be happy. Trying to change it is, at best, wearing a costume and, at worst, living a lie to yourself.

If you hand a human brain to a scientist, they can tell you whether the person was a male or a female without needing a genetics test.

If you hand them the brain of a transgendered person, their assessment matches the new gender, not the birth gender.

Does that have an impact on your opinion?


I'm going to take this as nonsense without a link to a valid, substantive medical study.

Smackledorfer: time wasted on the LGBT rights movement.


I don't know who's on which side of that argument, so this isn't necessarily pointed at you, but let it be said: as mental as I think it is for someone to want to flip their penis inside out or take hormones to minimize their breasts, gay rights is the defining issue of our time and it's absolutely necessary and serious. You were born how you were born. We should all embrace that, and embrace it in others. But boys thinking they're really girls is just...make-believe.
 
2013-07-17 02:35:37 PM  
"Fathers guiding their daughters to act more closely to the traditional male gender role is considered normal and even beneficial, while a boy being guided toward a traditional female role is considered emasculating, confusing, and harmful. Why is that?"

I would need to see what you bundle into the "traditional female role" descriptor before an assessment could be offered.
 
2013-07-17 02:36:00 PM  

thurstonxhowell: Fathers guiding their daughters to act more closely to the traditional male gender role is considered normal and even beneficial, while a boy being guided toward a traditional female role is considered emasculating, confusing, and harmful. Why is that?


Biatches ain't shiat?
 
2013-07-17 02:36:35 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Smackledorfer: Monkeyhouse Zendo: From a genetic perspective there is very little difference between a male and female

Someone doesn't understand what "very little" means in the context of genetics.  It is quite large.  The X chromosome isn't anywhere close to the Y, and boy howdy you should see what happens when an extra X gets thrown into the mix.

So one chromosome pair out of 23, one chromosome out of 46, 2.1% of genetic data provided that there are no gene complexes in common between the X and Y.

Do you have a problem with my main premise regarding hormones controlling whether gene complexes are enabled/disabled or are you just nitpicking?


Right, you understand nothing about what 'very little difference'means in terms of genetics.

You should see how similar the genetics of a phenalketonuric are to us normies. Why don't you go look that up, then come back and tell us whether we should have 'contains phenalalanine' on labels or continue testing for it. And hey they are only a small percent of the population too, so fark it why change anything for them?

As for my problem, it is you using 'genetically similar' and 'small percent of the population' to justify dismissal of the very real problems faced by your fellow sentient beings. Frost that cake of stupidity with your concern trolling about maintaining a language at the stage you prefer it at and why do you think anyone should respect your views here?
 
2013-07-17 02:39:48 PM  

Scrotastic Method: I'm going to take this as nonsense without a link to a valid, substantive medical study.


Women have small brains. Brains a third the size of ours. It's science.

Joking aside, there are nontrivial differences between male and female brains. Even a cursory google search will point you to a number of reputable sources. The transgender brain bit is less clear but transgenders do show some structures more akin to the chosen identity rather than the genetic sex.

Here's one to get you started:  http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/85/5/2034.full
 
2013-07-17 02:40:09 PM  

Scrotastic Method: I'm going to take this as nonsense without a link to a valid, substantive medical study.


Your reaction seems to suggest it would have significant impact. Is that true? I'll provide the link in a little bit - I just want to know if this means your opinion is going to change.
 
2013-07-17 02:40:58 PM  

Scrotastic Method: vygramul: Scrotastic Method: I was born with the wrong athletic identity...I was meant to be able to slam-dunk a basketball, but instead I'm a white dude that's barely 6 feet. I'm going to live my life as a 6' 10" black dude though, and I want every that meets me to congratulate me on my many NBA All-Star Game appearances.

/we're born. That's it. Nobody's meant to be anything else. Make the best of what you have, be happy. Trying to change it is, at best, wearing a costume and, at worst, living a lie to yourself.

If you hand a human brain to a scientist, they can tell you whether the person was a male or a female without needing a genetics test.

If you hand them the brain of a transgendered person, their assessment matches the new gender, not the birth gender.

Does that have an impact on your opinion?

I'm going to take this as nonsense without a link to a valid, substantive medical study.

Smackledorfer: time wasted on the LGBT rights movement.

I don't know who's on which side of that argument, so this isn't necessarily pointed at you, but let it be said: as mental as I think it is for someone to want to flip their penis inside out or take hormones to minimize their breasts, gay rights is the defining issue of our time and it's absolutely necessary and serious. You were born how you were born. We should all embrace that, and embrace it in others. But boys thinking they're really girls is just...make-believe.


Agreed Its just guys falling for the romanticized aspect of being female. If they ever had to have a period or give birth they would run screaming the other direction.
 
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