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(NPR)   Hello, and welcome to Olive Garden. My name is Snowflake, and I'll be your genderqueer postgrad waitron this evening. I'll tell you our specials in a moment, but first, let me tell you that my preferred gender pronoun for tonight is   (npr.org ) divider line
    More: Stupid, Olive Garden, Oberlin College, homeless youth, students' association, snowflakes, graduate schools, genders  
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21144 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jul 2013 at 6:49 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-17 08:14:00 AM  
And the tail continues to wag the dog.
 
2013-07-17 08:14:02 AM  
Hi I'm Ken. I use she/her/ma'am/miss/mrs he/him/mr/sir and IT, pick one.
 
2013-07-17 08:14:18 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: "We encountered high school students who said, I want you to call me Tractor and use pronouns like zee, zim and zer."


"That's nice, I will refer to you as 'food slave' you may call me either 'Master' or 'Dread Lord'. As a Dread Lord, my personal pronoun supersedes yours. Now go get your supervisor, food slave, so that I may explain to him why I am leaving your establishment."
 
2013-07-17 08:15:12 AM  

scanman61: I'd say based on that tale, one would likely conclude that gender identity is hardwired in the brain is not taught or learned, or "malleable".


Indeed what I meant to say. But I am having a stupid day... about 10,000th in a row. Pure dumb luck...
 
2013-07-17 08:15:31 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Bontesla: You don't care because you don't struggle with it. You take it for granted.

I have many transgender friends. Not a single one of them has attempted to invent an alternate set of pronouns for themselves. They started out as one set of existing pronouns and moved to another existing set of pronouns.

This personal pronoun shiat is the epitome of bored, spoiled, suburban white kid problems.

If I'm ever presented with the statement "my preferred pronouns are X/Y/Z" my response will be "how about I just call you narcissist?"


The goal isn't to create a new identity but to raise awareness.
 
2013-07-17 08:15:33 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: As a Dread Lord


Approves:

myriadmagputer.com
 
2013-07-17 08:15:38 AM  
I still don't know why "herm" hasn't caught on.
 
2013-07-17 08:15:38 AM  

Jon iz teh kewl: why don't they ahve have DRUGS to treat this condition?  like WELLBUTRIN or ZOLOFT


How do you know that these dummies aren't "genderqueer" because of Wellbutrin/Zoloft/Ritalin or whatever it is their parents gave them as kids so the parents would be 'left alone'?
 
2013-07-17 08:15:45 AM  
A couple of decades ago, I had decided I really wished there was a genderless pronoun in English to use for all humans to avoid all this.
 
2013-07-17 08:16:57 AM  

Mock26: If we are now required to recognize an individual's preferred gender pronoun then fine, I am selecting mine:

You: icky-icky-icky-icky-kapang-zoop-boing
Him: yabba-dabba-doodle-do
His: owowowowowowowowowowowowowowow-ooooop-ow

Anyone who does not respect my gender identification is an evil monster who makes Hitler look like a caring and loving pro-zionist gentleman.


yababoon.com
 
2013-07-17 08:17:05 AM  
The correct answer is: be open minded and cool about other people, AND be open minded and cool about the language they use, because hey, shiat's all a little fluid.

Don't be an uptight dick.
 
2013-07-17 08:18:00 AM  

bbcard1: I still don't know why "herm" hasn't caught on.


Because of the dick statues, I'm gonna guess.
 
2013-07-17 08:18:05 AM  

Bontesla: The goal isn't to create a new identity but to raise awareness.


Excellent. In the future you may refer to me as "His August Presence" or "Dread Lord" so that we can further raise awareness of the oppressiveness of gendered pronouns.

/[yourenothelping.jpg]
 
2013-07-17 08:18:05 AM  
Hi I'm Farkin' XXX XXXXX and my PGP is Master. Furthermore I will only respond to statements that both begin and end with "Sir" and will not be paying my bill if these guide lines are not met.

I have friends all over the spectrum, all of them want to be treated like a normal person, which they are.

/I hate people who take themselves too seriously
//sometimes the LGBTQUBF community goes too far
 
2013-07-17 08:18:58 AM  

IAAl: I am sure that the Fark comments on an article about the gender spectrum is about the last useful place to post this but hey, why not?

Gender is not binary.

Not all people are simply Male or Female.

Regardless of how you define Male or Female, there are people who are both or neither.

If you want to go with the simplistic "is the 23rd set of chromosomes XX or XY?"  You will find that there are people with more than just two, see Aneuploidy.

If you decide to go with sex organs, there are people with both and people with neither.

Needless to say, if you go with characteristics or other physiology you see a wide range of characteristics among people that cross gender norms.

It is simple to categorize gender as binary but gender is no more binary than race or sexual orientation.  Just because you identify strongly with one gender, and perhaps even look the part, does not mean that everyone does or that everyone identifies with either gender.


You're confusing "butch" and "fem" as actual core psych identities.  Gender identity is binary.  It may not match the genitals you are born with, but it's one or the other.  It's a very core component of the human mind.

Yes, you can be a femmy male. (hi Ghastly!)  You can be a butch female.  You can be a male who enjoys stereotypical female activities and norms, and vice versa.  None of this has any bearing on your core gender identity.

I hear it all the time, "Well, I'm male BUT (insert cross-gender activities)".

Trust me, if you IDed as male this week, female next, 70%/30% for two weeks, totally asexual after that....you would be mentally screwed up.  Hell, look at the mental/emotional disorders "simple" transgender people come with!
 
2013-07-17 08:19:14 AM  

bbcard1: I still don't know why "herm" hasn't caught on.


img118.imageshack.us
 
2013-07-17 08:20:08 AM  

BowtoMogul: //sometimes the LGBTQUBF community goes too far


Better have otherkin in there someplace, oppressor.

/qufb?
//seriously?
 
2013-07-17 08:20:25 AM  
"Hello my name is Pope Francis and I use the is/eius/ei pronouns."
 
2013-07-17 08:20:35 AM  
I want to be called TIm The Enchanter

and i will just call everyone else "you", that is all inclusive.
 
2013-07-17 08:21:22 AM  
For some reason, I can't see that conversation taking place at an Olive Garden.
 
2013-07-17 08:22:26 AM  
I treat everyone who thinks they need language changed to their personal preference the same way I treat my 10 year old niece when she makes up a word and thinks it's cool. I pat her on the head, say, "That's nice, dear" and laugh as I walk away.
 
2013-07-17 08:22:44 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: BowtoMogul: //sometimes the LGBTQUBF community goes too far

Better have otherkin in there someplace, oppressor.

/qufb?
//seriously?


Questioning, Uninterested, Biased and Furry

/I forgot the A
 
2013-07-17 08:24:12 AM  

Jon iz teh kewl: why don't they ahve DRUGS to treat this condition? like WELLBUTRIN or ZOLOFT


The insistence on the binary nature of gender is actually pretty much a western hang up. Perhaps you should take the drugs?
 
2013-07-17 08:24:56 AM  

bunner: [i.qkme.me image 400x600]

And that's all you need to know until she has to take off the Cinderella hair shirt outfit and pay bills.

On the upside, she will happily be offended for you and express great disdain upon your behalf if you're sporting an acceptable social aberration.

Downside, you will eventually offend her, too.


I target those types for instant offense for my personal gratification.
Crunchy, smelly, dirty, freaks.
 
2013-07-17 08:24:57 AM  
i512.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-17 08:27:53 AM  
But we can still pick on furies right?
 
2013-07-17 08:28:12 AM  
Ha ha. Subby's afraid of someone else's sexuality. Pussy... or do you prefer puzzee?
 
2013-07-17 08:28:32 AM  

Duke_leto_Atredes: But we can still pick on furies right?


At your peril.

Those guys were bad ass in Big Trouble in Little China.....
 
2013-07-17 08:29:03 AM  
I find that people of every sexual orientation answer to gender neutral forms of address. I use "Hey, shiat head!"
 
2013-07-17 08:29:42 AM  
simple solution: do not use pronouns or just use one--"it"

people make things so difficult
 
2013-07-17 08:30:10 AM  
There are a lot of guys in this thread with a lot of latent anger towards themselves and society because what they assumed were hard rules about gender and sexuality have changed. The rules you adhere to don't give you anything tangible. You aren't a "real man" because you played with trucks and roll your eyes at a rack of pink dress shirts. Following cultural norms is all well and good, until you've become so distant to the reasons and historical context that you're enforcing them - as evidenced in this thread - with such enthusiasm and vitriol - for the sake of just making others feel like outsiders.

Some people are different. Learn to deal with it.
 
2013-07-17 08:30:24 AM  

here to help: Ha ha. Subby's afraid of someone else's sexuality. Pussy... or do you prefer puzzee?


Haha, dumb ass is conflating gender and sexuality.

/don't care what you prefer
//not subby
 
DGS [TotalFark]
2013-07-17 08:31:04 AM  

Aulus: OK, maybe it's because I am hetero and in  my mid-sixties, but were I in such a situation and someone I had never met chose to introduce themself that way, I'd get up and walk out.

Look, I do not care how you conduct yourself gender or sexual wise in private, but do not feel the need to slap me in the face with it when we are not interacting intimately and/or in public and especially if we have never met and are unlikely to in the future.

IOW, STFU and act like an adult.


Well, bye.

A person who constantly feels tired or upset about how others direct speech (let alone the likely not-insignificant volume of attitude or insensitive remarks) at him/her/etc, and so the person cuts to the chase and puts the information out there. If that's enough for you to get up and walk, bye. Saved a whole lot of unpleasantness, so go you. RAHRAHRAH.
 
2013-07-17 08:31:34 AM  

WhyteRaven74: The insistence on the binary nature of gender is actually pretty much a western hang up. Perhaps you should take the drugs?


IsThatYourFinalAnswer: You're confusing "butch" and "fem" as actual core psych identities. Gender identity is binary. It may not match the genitals you are born with, but it's one or the other. It's a very core component of the human mind.


trans fight!
Two men enter, only one leaves. But he leaves as a woman. And in the interim, there may or may not have been some other genders involved. In any event it will be quite a tussle. You see, this is why boxing is best left to gays, they just take out their frustrations and beat people to death.
 
2013-07-17 08:33:07 AM  
Greetings my fellow carbon based life form.

Eh', even that's too much of an assumption.
 
2013-07-17 08:33:54 AM  
I forgot the S!
LGBTQUBFAS


/Can't forget about Smizmars
 
2013-07-17 08:34:36 AM  

jayhawk88: maudibjr: Why does this have to be so confusing.  I'm just going to keep calling everyone dude.

"Bro" also works really well.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x243]


"Dude" also works pretty well as a non-gender specific term.

But really, I don't care I'll call you whatever you want.
 
2013-07-17 08:35:15 AM  
gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net

Seriously.  Just tell us whatever the hell you want to be called and move on already.  The only reason this is an issue is because you're MAKING it an issue.  99% of people will politely acquiesce to your wishes out of courtesy if you just ask/correct them politely.

This smacks of AW syndrome.
 
2013-07-17 08:36:06 AM  
The biggest problem with PCness, especially when it comes to cutting-edge PCness like this gender stuff, is that if you get it wrong it's not merely a correction, but a rip-your-face-off crime against Gaia and God (blessed be zer name). You get a new asshole torn because, of COURSE, this stuff is all self-evident and what kind of monster are you for getting it wrong? There are Christian evangelicals who cannot hope to ever reach the sanctimonious and judgmental levels achieved by some in the PC-looney crowd.
 
2013-07-17 08:36:15 AM  

Fromageball: The Muthaship: That reminds me of the lady I went to law school with who dressed her son in girls clothes half the time. She took offense when I told her that was the recipe for making a serial killer.

/he'd be about 23 now
//I hope he started with her

Did the kid want to dress in girl clothes or did the mom just decide to do it?
b/c if the kid wanted it, fine. If the kid didn't want it...wtf?!

Sometimes I feel sorry for men with their restrictive dress choices...especially now in the summer when I can get away with wearing pretty much whatever I want(especially since a lot of workplaces are changing their dress codes...it's like as a woman I can wear whatever the hell I want -within reason) but the men are still stuck in their button-downs and trousers.


We're men. We wrote those policies and we'll damn well deal with it.
 
2013-07-17 08:36:37 AM  
Just call them by their name tag and ask for a new server....  or just keep repeating SYNTAX ERROR SYNTAX ERROR SYNTAX ERROR as you walk out.  You should NEVER feel uncomfortable over a pronoun.
 
2013-07-17 08:37:54 AM  

The Muthaship: here to help: Ha ha. Subby's afraid of someone else's sexuality. Pussy... or do you prefer puzzee?

Haha, dumb ass is conflating gender and sexuality.

/don't care what you prefer
//not subby


Sex = Gender

As in your sex is male.

The term sexuality doesn't always mean f*ck.

Now who's the dumb ass, dumb ass?
 
2013-07-17 08:38:21 AM  
About 10 years ago, we traveled to Arizona because my brother was in a baseball showcase and one of our first nights there we ate at an Olive Garden (I know, I know, let me tell the damn story).  Well our server comes up and asks for our drink order and when they go to get it we all decide we couldn't determine the gender, so we decided we'd check the name on their return and we could base the gender on that.  When they came back with drinks the name tag said "Jaye," not exactly a big help.

You know how we got around this problem?  We just used "Jaye."  Why do you need a pronoun for your server? Just use their name.
 
2013-07-17 08:38:31 AM  

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: IAAl: I am sure that the Fark comments on an article about the gender spectrum is about the last useful place to post this but hey, why not?

Gender is not binary.

Not all people are simply Male or Female.

Regardless of how you define Male or Female, there are people who are both or neither.

If you want to go with the simplistic "is the 23rd set of chromosomes XX or XY?"  You will find that there are people with more than just two, see Aneuploidy.

If you decide to go with sex organs, there are people with both and people with neither.

Needless to say, if you go with characteristics or other physiology you see a wide range of characteristics among people that cross gender norms.

It is simple to categorize gender as binary but gender is no more binary than race or sexual orientation.  Just because you identify strongly with one gender, and perhaps even look the part, does not mean that everyone does or that everyone identifies with either gender.

You're confusing "butch" and "fem" as actual core psych identities.  Gender identity is binary.  It may not match the genitals you are born with, but it's one or the other.  It's a very core component of the human mind.

Yes, you can be a femmy male. (hi Ghastly!)  You can be a butch female.  You can be a male who enjoys stereotypical female activities and norms, and vice versa.  None of this has any bearing on your core gender identity.

I hear it all the time, "Well, I'm male BUT (insert cross-gender activities)".

Trust me, if you IDed as male this week, female next, 70%/30% for two weeks, totally asexual after that....you would be mentally screwed up.  Hell, look at the mental/emotional disorders "simple" transgender people come with!


Kinda seems like you're forcing people into binary gender categories, rather than them adhering to one or the other within certain contexts.  The whole point is that the binary categorization is a poor way of describing the complexity of the human experience, i.e. "I'm a man but I like interior design" is cop-out.

Don't worry, though.  Pretty soon you and others like you will die and the world will continue to move on without you, very likely further and further towards the eradication of the dichotomous gender system.
 
2013-07-17 08:38:52 AM  

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: I always figured trans would be the next "in" thing, but we shot WAY past transgender into this weird world of amorphous constantly shifting nontraditional binary gender declarations.

I guess I'm a closed minded transformer...deep down, you're either male, or female.  may not match with your body, but your core identity is one or the other.

The sad thing, I actually see all this BS reverting trans rights.  We're just barely getting to the point where governments don't require surgery to validate gender.  I see that going down the drain when some of these whackadoos demand recognition of their asexual third-gender spiritual designation on ID.


I agree.  This is going to hurt TG.

I get TG.  Ok I don't "get it" but I understand peopel feel their body is wrong.  They feel their biology puts them in the wrong group.

But this I am special I need a new made up group?  It is farking BS.  Now I can't get that worked up over peopel who want a special BS lable, but I can certainlylaugh my ass off at them.
 
2013-07-17 08:39:28 AM  

here to help: Now who's the dumb ass, dumb ass?


You said sexuality, not sex, so I'm afraid it's still you.
 
2013-07-17 08:39:38 AM  

AngryDragon: Seriously.  Just tell us whatever the hell you want to be called and move on already.  The only reason this is an issue is because you're MAKING it an issue.  99% of people will politely acquiesce to your wishes out of courtesy if you just ask/correct them politely.

This smacks of AW syndrome.


It smacks of AW syndrome that a group of college kids agreed to start doing this during their local interfaith council meetings and NPR ran like a five minute story about "these crazy kids are pushing the social envelope?"
 
2013-07-17 08:39:41 AM  

proteus_b: WhyteRaven74: The insistence on the binary nature of gender is actually pretty much a western hang up. Perhaps you should take the drugs?

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: You're confusing "butch" and "fem" as actual core psych identities. Gender identity is binary. It may not match the genitals you are born with, but it's one or the other. It's a very core component of the human mind.

trans fight!
Two men enter, only one leaves. But he leaves as a woman. And in the interim, there may or may not have been some other genders involved. In any event it will be quite a tussle. You see, this is why boxing is best left to gays, they just take out their frustrations and beat people to death.


Hah, I doubt it. I've enjoyed the few chats me and Whyte have had.  More an "agree to disagree" thing if any.

Now, if you wanna see two trans people fight, ask for the preferred method of "tucking".  THAT triggers trans flamewars.


/Duct Tape or nothing
//Anything else leaves bulges
///transformers love dem slashies
 
2013-07-17 08:39:54 AM  

DrPainMD: FTA: "...a new generation of young people is..."

And people still insist that "Idiocracy" wasn't a documentary.


I don't see the error.  If you implying it should be "...a new generation of young people are...", that would be grammatically incorrect.  You can check by removing the prepositional phrase:  "a new generation is" versus "a new generation are."  The verb is associated with a singular generation.
 
2013-07-17 08:40:13 AM  

AngryDragon: [gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net image 400x300]

Seriously.  Just tell us whatever the hell you want to be called and move on already.  The only reason this is an issue is because you're MAKING it an issue.  99% of people will politely acquiesce to your wishes out of courtesy if you just ask/correct them politely.

This smacks of AW syndrome.


Yeah, when someone addresses you with a smug tone of challenge, they're actually LESS likely to get cooperation. It's like they WANT the confrontation because they can afford it and are willing to buy the cool story how the guy they met, who they just KNEW was a total bigot, had a negative reaction to their aggressiveness. It's a complete obliviousness to their own reality.
 
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