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(NPR)   Hello, and welcome to Olive Garden. My name is Snowflake, and I'll be your genderqueer postgrad waitron this evening. I'll tell you our specials in a moment, but first, let me tell you that my preferred gender pronoun for tonight is   (npr.org) divider line 734
    More: Stupid, Olive Garden, Oberlin College, homeless youth, students' association, snowflakes, graduate schools, genders  
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21121 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jul 2013 at 6:49 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-17 07:41:19 AM

Fromageball: ...it's like as a woman I can wear whatever the hell I want -within reason) but the men are still stuck in their button-downs and trousers.


And they wonder why they earn less...
 
2013-07-17 07:41:28 AM

proteus_b: IsThatYourFinalAnswer: I hear ya, it just gets on my nerves. A "normal" person has an unfortunate "you're offending me!" encounter with one of these attention whores, it sours them to us normal trans people, who just want to be recognized as normal folks.

like!

unfortunately, us "cis" people rarely hear about trans people, and when we do, we generally just hear about the attention whores...


Most trans people stay really quiet about the topic (for obvious reasons). We don't WANT the attention the AWs thrive on.  We just want to be the gender our brains identify us as.

As for wanting to hear about trans, Fark has a pretty decently sized Trans Brigade.  If you ever want a question answered, toss it in a tranny thread, one of us will get to you soon enough.
 
2013-07-17 07:42:11 AM
Wear a name tag. I call you what it says.
 
2013-07-17 07:42:18 AM
Because proles don't need a gender.
Amirite?
 
2013-07-17 07:42:44 AM

Bontesla: You don't care because you don't struggle with it. You take it for granted.


No, I don't care because  I don't care.  I grew up with several siblings, some dogs, and a name that's got an ambiguous pronunciation, gender and ethnicity (no, my handle isn't my actual name, I'm not that dumb).  I've been called everything from my little sister's name to the dog's name, had my gender reversed on official paperwork repeatedly, and had people pronounce my surname in a manner consistent with a region that my actual ancestors would automatically have murdered and vice-versa.

I deal with it an accept any designation that correctly singles me out from the people I'm standing next to, because I'm not a self-important prat that thinks that the basic functionality of communication comes second to my own delusion that other people should find my personal shiat important.

That's the thing about your personal issues, they're personal as much because they aren't relevant to other people most of the time as because they're disproportionately important to you.  Dealing with that and not taking offense is one of the fundamental characteristics of an adult as opposed to a child.

//I sincerely doubt that your friend is getting reassignment surgery simply because she's sick of being called "mister", I'd guess it has something to do with feeling like she's actually in the wrong body and wanting to fix that... which, again, personal issue, so up to her to fix as she pleases.  Also not something making a new pronoun for her was going to fix.
//At least by default I'd give her more credit than that, just assuming she's a typical random person.
 
2013-07-17 07:43:58 AM
if you're totally for gender equality you wouldn't care what i call you
 
2013-07-17 07:44:06 AM
I was SO hoping this was a "real" consumerist story.

99.9% I'm not looking to have sex with you, so I don't care what your sexual preference is.  If I am interested, I'll spend some time getting to know you.

The transgendered people I've met would make the craziest readhead seem sane.
 
2013-07-17 07:45:12 AM

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: one of us will get to you soon enough.


^ Limbaugh was right!
 
2013-07-17 07:45:59 AM

ox45tallboy: They're calling for more fluid categories beyond just male and female, as NPR's Margot Adler explains.

I'm totally fine with people who were born with a different sexual identity than what matches their naughty bits. It happens sometimes, and these days, there is no reason not to live a happy and fulfilled life wearing the gender in which you feel comfortable, and having sexual relations with whichever consenting adults wish to do so. Having said that, if your gender identity is changing,on a regular basis, perhaps you need to seek professional help. This is not normal or healthy, and other people catering to this whim is not helpful to your mental health.


Nor our mental health.
 
2013-07-17 07:46:20 AM
Let's just go with it/it/its. Otherwise it's too confusing.
 
2013-07-17 07:46:28 AM
Take out all of the pictures of those who came before you.  Your ancestors, family, your linear heritage.

Look into their eyes.

You are the apex of their genetics, hopes and dreams and the spark of who they are and who they were that carries them into the future.  You are the only reason they ever lived.

Stop embarrassing the piss out of them with overwrought malarkey.  You're welcome.
 
2013-07-17 07:48:50 AM
I'd complain to the manageress.
 
2013-07-17 07:49:35 AM

Aulus: OK, maybe it's because I am hetero and in  my mid-sixties, but were I in such a situation and someone I had never met chose to introduce themself that way, I'd get up and walk out.

Look, I do not care how you conduct yourself gender or sexual wise in private, but do not feel the need to slap me in the face with it when we are not interacting intimately and/or in public and especially if we have never met and are unlikely to in the future.

IOW, STFU and act like an adult.


I don't believe anyone actually talks like that--that's the 'joke'. If I introduced myself by saying "Hi, I'm CowardlyLion, and I'm a heteronormative, cisgendered postpostgrad male," it would be just as cumbersome and annoying (assuming I'm introducing myself to a stranger and there was no preestablished want or need for all of that information or terminology).
 
2013-07-17 07:50:40 AM
In over 10 years on Fark, I don't believe I've ever seen such a combination of baiting headline plus nasty comments.

Westboro would be proud.

/fade out with 'welcome to fark' memes
 
2013-07-17 07:51:09 AM

Sybarite: I'd complain to the manageress.


Cockman oppressor.
 
2013-07-17 07:51:43 AM

Sybarite: I'd complain to the manageress.


That's managerarian, manageringist, mana.. Yo, biznatch, da soup cold!
 
2013-07-17 07:52:31 AM

CheatCommando: bighairyguy: If that happened to me at Olive Garden, I'd say: "Your gender pronoun is I didn't come here for a lecture, keeping your farking breadsticks, I'm going next door to Red Lobster. "

Which is owned by Olive Garden and will probably have the same policy.


I know that, that why they're usually right next door.  Just spinning the wheel and hoping for a server who keep their personal issues in the kitchen where they belong.
 
2013-07-17 07:53:42 AM

TheGogmagog: I was SO hoping this was a "real" consumerist story.

99.9% I'm not looking to have sex with you, so I don't care what your sexual preference is.  If I am interested, I'll spend some time getting to know you.


This doesn't really have anything to do with sexual preference, from what I'm reading. Nobody taking the time to explain their preferred gender pronouns to you is trying to get in your pants.
 
2013-07-17 07:53:43 AM

UNC_Samurai: bighairyguy: If that happened to me at Olive Garden, I'd say: "Your gender pronoun is I didn't come here for a lecture, keeping your farking breadsticks, I'm going next door to Red Lobster. "

You takin' her to Red Lobster with the cheddar biscuits? The fam ain't eatin' cheddar biscuits, but this random broad is eatin' cheddar biscuits?


I can stay home and eat RL cheddar biscuits.  The mix is $5.98 at Sam's Club.
 
2013-07-17 07:54:08 AM
Since I mentioned questions, here's the answers to the most common questions:

Since I was little.
The bathroom my "brain" gender identifies with.
It stops working reliably on hormones.
Very expensive, and most insurance doesn't cover it.
It's not contagious.
No I can't have kids.

And, the biggest question of all....

Do you normally ask people about their genitals, and major surgeries they may have had?
 
2013-07-17 07:54:18 AM

CheatCommando: HindiDiscoMonster: there are plenty of Fabulous people who don't go to 11 with the gay thing. Just because he is gay doesn't mean he needs corrective surgery.

You do understand that gay and transgender are actually different things, don't you? There are transgendered females (genetically male) who are attracted to women and vice versa.


only 1 bite? damn... Guess I would starve...
 
2013-07-17 07:54:18 AM

Todd300: Westboro would be proud.


Yeah, I think anybody who might be less than enthusiastic about helping nudge their native language into the tree chipper one more time probably wants to kill queers for Jesus.  Baseless hyperbole.  How does it work?
 
2013-07-17 07:54:27 AM

ox45tallboy: [nyulocal.com image 750x350]

Or the direction you prefer to roll your wheelchair, I guess.


That's what the 'family' rest rooms are for.

/The sign is missing hoverounds.
 
2013-07-17 07:54:42 AM

Bontesla: You don't care because you don't struggle with it. You take it for granted.


I have many transgender friends. Not a single one of them has attempted to invent an alternate set of pronouns for themselves. They started out as one set of existing pronouns and moved to another existing set of pronouns.

This personal pronoun shiat is the epitome of bored, spoiled, suburban white kid problems.

If I'm ever presented with the statement "my preferred pronouns are X/Y/Z" my response will be "how about I just call you narcissist?"
 
2013-07-17 07:55:37 AM

psychicdeath99: If someone does not want to be identified by "he" or "she" because that is based on whatever reproductive organs they possess, maybe they would prefer to be identified by a gender-neutral organ. I suggest the terminal end of the digestive tract.


Your logic is impeccable. Even if they didn't take your suggestion, I'd still be cool with calling some gender-non-specific person "Spleen" or "Toe".
 
2013-07-17 07:57:18 AM

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: No I can't have kids.


People really ask if you can get pregnant? That's just plain silly.
 
2013-07-17 07:57:47 AM
Just ask

Do you prefer Mr. Miss or Miss Mr.
 
2013-07-17 07:59:16 AM
I am open minded, friend of hetero,homo, confused, intersexed, and whatever gender assignment you are calling yourself.

As long as I do not have to hear about it all the damn time I could care less. If you keep whining about it I will then either tell you to shut up or offer an opinion you might not like.

I do not have to care about Jews for Jesus or that even though you look like steve buscemi but want to dress like Carmen Miranda. My only care is that I am polite and that I can get to the end of the day with the least amount of white noise.

We all eat shiat and die.
 
2013-07-17 07:59:37 AM
Please refer to me as Ford F-150 Supercab.  My preferred gender pronouns are Ford/Ferd.  I am a transautomotivist.
 
2013-07-17 08:00:00 AM
And then one charming daffy young woman told me, oh, yes, today, I'm just using made up pronouns.

Daffy. The word you are looking for is "daffy".
 
2013-07-17 08:00:07 AM

cwolf20: Just ask

Do you prefer Mr. Miss or Miss Mr.


MIZZZZZ MY NAME IS MIZZZ FRASER!
 
2013-07-17 08:00:18 AM
I guess I should point out that the hottest girl I ever dated, I think my chances greatly improved because I offered sympathy towards trans people (specifically the lack of funding for surgery...) She had a trans ex (I didn't know that at the time) and my open-mindedness must have kept that conversation going. I'm a damned attractive guy (my mom says, anyhow...), but this girl was still way out of my league. That hot. Anyways, maybe you guys should think of it like the "bro-choice" thing meanwhile...
 
2013-07-17 08:01:39 AM
We encountered high school students who said, I want you to call me Tractor and use pronouns like zee, zim and zer.

No... If you're not down with he/him/his or she/her/hers, you're getting singular they/them/theirs... You don't get to invent new words and unilaterally add them to the language and force everyone else to use them...

Besides, those words don't even work well as an invented set of pronouns! I can see "zee" and "zim" as analogues of "he" and "him", but WTF is "zer"?? It would seem to be an analogue of "her", but that inflection is already covered by "zim"! If it's meant to be used for the possessive, it just doesn't flow well... Maybe make it "zers" or "zis" instead...
 
2013-07-17 08:02:01 AM

Nabb1: And people wonder why we are lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math education and more and more high tech jobs are headed overseas.


Not to put too fine a point on it, but much of the industrialized world was talking about this a decade ago.
 
2013-07-17 08:02:10 AM
we've got to nip this heterophobia in the bud before it gets out of hand.
 
2013-07-17 08:02:26 AM

Jim_Callahan: No, I don't care because I don't care. I grew up with several siblings, some dogs, and a name that's got an ambiguous pronunciation, gender and ethnicity (no, my handle isn't my actual name, I'm not that dumb). I've been called everything from my little sister's name to the dog's name, had my gender reversed on official paperwork repeatedly, and had people pronounce my surname in a manner consistent with a region that my actual ancestors would automatically have murdered and vice-versa.


076dd0a50e0c1255009e-bd4b8aabaca29897bc751dfaf75b290c.r40.cf1.rackcdn.com

We named the dog Indiana.
 
2013-07-17 08:03:01 AM

DrPainMD: There. Now, in twenty years, I will be hailed as a progressive thinker who was ahead of his time, and you will be lumped in with Limbaugh, Beck, Gingrich and Stalin. Won't that be fun?


In 50, you'll be seen as no different from Limbaugh if you hold a single view that's not PC in the future. Just look at the crap Heinlein gets for his blatant racism and sexism in Starship Troopers, written in the '50s, with a Filipino protagonist and a majority of naval officers being women. In the '50s. Or Tolkien, who was sexist for not having more women in the story he started writing in the '30s which only had women being some of the most powerful warriors in the story. Go back further, and when a slave-owner says to other slave-owners, "You know this may not be a good idea. In fact, it might be pretty farking immoral," he's viewed as a colossal hypocrite rather than a guy breaking with traditional thought.

So, yea, you'll be Limbaugh. So will I. None of us get out of here without being bigoted farks in someone's eyes in the future.
 
2013-07-17 08:03:33 AM

bunner: CheatCommando: Or maybe, you know, offer to buy them a meal, even if it was at Subway or McDerp's?

I do stuff like that all the time.  Lately I'm having trouble feeding me and technically, I have three  jobs.   :  /  I sort of doubt this piece of fluff in TFA article is gonna save the world this week.


I was more pointing out that the original poster claimed this was such a major problem that we could not work on other lesser problems as well,  and then ignored it.  Which is fairly typical - he doesn't care about the supposed problem, he's just being an asshole.
 
2013-07-17 08:03:48 AM

Smackledorfer: Nabb1: And people wonder why we are lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math education and more and more high tech jobs are headed overseas.

Yep, it is the lgbt civil rights movement that destroys our ability to do math and science jobs for less money than a company can hire someone in china to do.

Truly you understand world economics and international business models.


Why not respond to his argument instead of deliberately mischaracterizing it in order to put him on the defensive?
 
2013-07-17 08:03:54 AM

UNC_Samurai: We named the dog Indiana.


I liked that dog!
 
2013-07-17 08:04:20 AM

HotWingConspiracy: IsThatYourFinalAnswer: No I can't have kids.

People really ask if you can get pregnant? That's just plain silly.


Yeah, people ask.  Granted, I do live in rural Midwest.  We're just now getting used to African Americans living in town.
 
2013-07-17 08:04:25 AM

The Southern Logic Company: Please refer to me as Ford F-150 Supercab.  My preferred gender pronouns are Ford/Ferd.  I am a transautomotivist.


I prefer to be identified as transwarp

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-07-17 08:05:23 AM
I am sure that the Fark comments on an article about the gender spectrum is about the last useful place to post this but hey, why not?

Gender is not binary.

Not all people are simply Male or Female.

Regardless of how you define Male or Female, there are people who are both or neither.

If you want to go with the simplistic "is the 23rd set of chromosomes XX or XY?"  You will find that there are people with more than just two, see Aneuploidy.

If you decide to go with sex organs, there are people with both and people with neither.

Needless to say, if you go with characteristics or other physiology you see a wide range of characteristics among people that cross gender norms.

It is simple to categorize gender as binary but gender is no more binary than race or sexual orientation.  Just because you identify strongly with one gender, and perhaps even look the part, does not mean that everyone does or that everyone identifies with either gender.
 
2013-07-17 08:05:23 AM
How about "I'm here to have dinner, not indulge your psychoses"?
 
2013-07-17 08:07:04 AM

Smackledorfer: Yep, it is the lgbt civil rights movement that destroys our ability to do math and science jobs for less money than a company can hire someone in china to do.

Truly you understand world economics and international business models.


by your logic, wouldn't it be cheaper to outsource our queer studies programs as well? why only sciences? hell, six hundred left-handed homosexuals with perfect pitch are born every second in peking...
 
2013-07-17 08:08:08 AM

HotWingConspiracy: I have no problem with the concept or the practice, but

"We encountered high school students who said, I want you to call me Tractor and use pronouns like zee, zim and zer."

...now you're just farking with me.


Yeah, I'm pretty damn liberal and I still think this is stupid. And probably a sign that they were spoiled as a child and have grown up expecting the world to conform to their wishes and beliefs.  That said, if someone wants me to refer to them as the opposite of their apparent sex, I'm cool with it - it's a courtesy that costs me nothing and makes them happy; it's just polite.

Expecting me to memorize awkward and pointless terms you've just made up, though? Fark off.
 
2013-07-17 08:08:55 AM
why don't they ahve DRUGS to treat this condition?  like WELLBUTRIN or ZOLOFT
 
2013-07-17 08:11:07 AM

HindiDiscoMonster: Bontesla: Jim_Callahan: While I wasn't raised in a barn, so I can in public basically call anyone whatever they ask to be called by with a straight face, I have to admit that every time someone makes a big deal out of being identified by their obvious biological gender (or getting annoyed when you mess it up, in the case of androgynous people) my actual unspoken reaction is basically "Oh my god who the hell cares".

If shiat like this actually catches on (probably won't) I'll learn it because etiquette is a life skill, but don't expect me to use it outside of formal venues.  PC crap is and always has been an artificial waste of time that conceals an underlying problem instead of or even at the expense of actually fixing it.

You don't care because you don't struggle with it. You take it for granted.

I know of an incredibly brave person who was born a man but just announced their desire to begin the process of gender reassignment. 56 years of being referred to as the wrong gender can wear a person down.

We tend to think of something as less important if it's not something we struggle with.

there are plenty of Fabulous people who don't go to 11 with the gay thing. Just because he is gay doesn't mean he needs corrective surgery.


Identifying how you'd like to be addressed isn't going to 11. You're just being silly.
 
2013-07-17 08:11:07 AM

proteus_b: yourmomlovestetris: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

based only on that tale, one would likely conclude that there is no such thing as transgenderism...


That's what you take from that?

I'd say based on that tale, one would likely conclude that gender identity is hardwired in the brain is not taught or learned, or "malleable".
 
2013-07-17 08:11:33 AM
As long as they have a pretty face, a great body and a good set of coconuts I have no problem porking them up the kazoo.
 
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