Do you have adblock enabled?
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(NPR)   Hello, and welcome to Olive Garden. My name is Snowflake, and I'll be your genderqueer postgrad waitron this evening. I'll tell you our specials in a moment, but first, let me tell you that my preferred gender pronoun for tonight is   ( npr.org) divider line
    More: Stupid, Olive Garden, Oberlin College, homeless youth, students' association, snowflakes, graduate schools, genders  
•       •       •

21155 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Jul 2013 at 6:49 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



728 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-07-17 01:16:50 AM  
Do we have a Headrant Of The Year category?
 
2013-07-17 01:17:37 AM  
Why does this have to be so confusing.  I'm just going to keep calling everyone dude.
 
2013-07-17 01:21:38 AM  
Ungendered pronouns would be great.  Un-gendering bathrooms would be nice too.  If women peep on men or men hog the couch, it's a small price to pay.  I would hog the shiat out of that couch.
 
2013-07-17 01:31:41 AM  
They're calling for more fluid categories beyond just male and female, as NPR's Margot Adler explains.

I'm totally fine with people who were born with a different sexual identity than what matches their naughty bits. It happens sometimes, and these days, there is no reason not to live a happy and fulfilled life wearing the gender in which you feel comfortable, and having sexual relations with whichever consenting adults wish to do so. Having said that, if your gender identity is changing,on a regular basis, perhaps you need to seek professional help. This is not normal or healthy, and other people catering to this whim is not helpful to your mental health.
 
2013-07-17 01:38:48 AM  

staplermofo: Ungendered pronouns would be great.  Un-gendering bathrooms would be nice too.  If women peep on men or men hog the couch, it's a small price to pay.  I would hog the shiat out of that couch.


Why don't dudes get a couch? What the hell are women doing in the can that necessitates a couch? I want a couch to chill on in the can. I would totally call the restaurant's number on my cell and ask for my waiter and then tell him bring me another beer to the couch in the men's room. Bonus points if it's a waitress. More bonus points if she does it. Negative points if she changes gender first.
 
2013-07-17 01:42:15 AM  

ox45tallboy: What the hell are women doing in the can that necessitates a couch?


Complaining about the line to get in.
 
2013-07-17 01:46:21 AM  

staplermofo: Complaining about the line to get in.


Of course they're complaining about the line. All the chicks are just sitting on the couch instead of doing their businesses and getting out to make room for the next person. Maybe the line would move quicker if they'd take the damn couch out, or at least move it to the men's room. Then the dudes would have someone to talk to while they're at the urinal.
 
2013-07-17 01:53:06 AM  
Didn't we have this thread last week?  If you're gender confused pick the masculine or feminine, whichever you prefer, and try to stick with it. The overwhelming majority of people aren't going to be willing to learn new gender-neutral pronouns, so unless you fancy being called an 'it' just figure out which one you're closest to and run with that.
 
2013-07-17 01:53:58 AM  
OK, maybe it's because I am hetero and in  my mid-sixties, but were I in such a situation and someone I had never met chose to introduce themself that way, I'd get up and walk out.

Look, I do not care how you conduct yourself gender or sexual wise in private, but do not feel the need to slap me in the face with it when we are not interacting intimately and/or in public and especially if we have never met and are unlikely to in the future.

IOW, STFU and act like an adult.
 
2013-07-17 02:09:57 AM  

nyulocal.comView Full Size



Or the direction you prefer to roll your wheelchair, I guess.
 
2013-07-17 02:14:45 AM  

ox45tallboy: [nyulocal.com image 750x350]

Or the direction you prefer to roll your wheelchair, I guess.


I've looked at those things, and while I'm certainly no expert, it seems to me that if you drive in facing forward, you may be doing it wrong

/I could be wrong
//my experience is limited to crutches and a leg cast
 
2013-07-17 02:17:50 AM  

Is this something else new:

2.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size



Or does he get his own restroom?

famouswhy.comView Full Size

 
2013-07-17 02:27:41 AM  

Can anyone translate these?

nyulocal.comView Full Size



I get: Chick, Dude, Larry Craig In A Skirt, Guy With A Boner, Rockette, Disabled Person, and Disabled Person Being Arrested.
 
2013-07-17 02:30:59 AM  
Lady in dress, man in pants, man in dress, woman in pants with small christmas tree, fabulous person, cripple lady, handicapable lady.
 
2013-07-17 02:31:09 AM  
FTA: "...a new generation of young people is..."

And people still insist that "Idiocracy" wasn't a documentary.
 
2013-07-17 02:33:19 AM  

DrPainMD: FTA: "...a new generation of young people is..."

And people still insist that "Idiocracy" wasn't a documentary.


I'm tempted to go with "prophecy"
 
2013-07-17 02:42:16 AM  

ox45tallboy: They're calling for more fluid categories beyond just male and female, as NPR's Margot Adler explains.

I'm totally fine with people who were born with a different sexual identity than what matches their naughty bits. It happens sometimes, and these days, there is no reason not to live a happy and fulfilled life wearing the gender in which you feel comfortable, and having sexual relations with whichever consenting adults wish to do so. Having said that, if your gender identity is changing,on a regular basis, perhaps you need to seek professional help. This is not normal or healthy, and other people catering to this whim is not helpful to your mental health.


I couldn't agree more, but, since the internet never forgets and I see the direction the forces of political correctness are going, I'm going to have to say, "Stop being such a close-minded, intolerant bigot."

There. Now, in twenty years, I will be hailed as a progressive thinker who was ahead of his time, and you will be lumped in with Limbaugh, Beck, Gingrich and Stalin. Won't that be fun?
 
2013-07-17 02:53:20 AM  

DrPainMD: I couldn't agree more, but, since the internet never forgets and I see the direction the forces of political correctness are going, I'm going to have to say, "Stop being such a close-minded, intolerant bigot."

There. Now, in twenty years, I will be hailed as a progressive thinker who was ahead of his time, and you will be lumped in with Limbaugh, Beck, Gingrich and Stalin. Won't that be fun?


Actually, in his younger days, before the Teddy Roosevelt 'stache, Stalin... well, you be the judge.

i.imgur.comView Full Size

 
2013-07-17 02:59:57 AM  

24.media.tumblr.comView Full Size

 
2013-07-17 06:12:09 AM  

ox45tallboy: staplermofo: Ungendered pronouns would be great.  Un-gendering bathrooms would be nice too.  If women peep on men or men hog the couch, it's a small price to pay.  I would hog the shiat out of that couch.

Why don't dudes get a couch? What the hell are women doing in the can that necessitates a couch? I want a couch to chill on in the can. I would totally call the restaurant's number on my cell and ask for my waiter and then tell him bring me another beer to the couch in the men's room. Bonus points if it's a waitress. More bonus points if she does it. Negative points if she changes gender first.


Wait..wait...you WANT to sit in the shiatter and hang out with other dudes while they piss? And you'd want food and beverages in there? What the fark is wrong with you?
 
2013-07-17 06:32:48 AM  
And people wonder why we are lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math education and more and more high tech jobs are headed overseas.
 
2013-07-17 06:51:11 AM  

Nabb1: And people wonder why we are lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math education and more and more high tech jobs are headed overseas.


Pragmatism is oppression.
 
2013-07-17 06:52:06 AM  
Hey hey hey, the couch is awesome.  Leave our couch alone.
 
2013-07-17 06:54:28 AM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: Hey hey hey, the couch is awesome.  Leave our couch alone.


Stop being so heteronormative, you fascist.
 
2013-07-17 06:54:35 AM  
How about just "douchenozzle"?
 
2013-07-17 06:55:50 AM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: Hey hey hey, the couch is awesome.  Leave our couch alone.


Perhaps now would be a bad time to mention the on-call French maid in every Men's bathroom?
 
2013-07-17 06:59:05 AM  

ox45tallboy: staplermofo: Ungendered pronouns would be great.  Un-gendering bathrooms would be nice too.  If women peep on men or men hog the couch, it's a small price to pay.  I would hog the shiat out of that couch.

Why don't dudes get a couch? What the hell are women doing in the can that necessitates a couch? I want a couch to chill on in the can. I would totally call the restaurant's number on my cell and ask for my waiter and then tell him bring me another beer to the couch in the men's room. Bonus points if it's a waitress. More bonus points if she does it. Negative points if she changes gender first.


That couch is in case some man uses corse language and the woman gets the vapors. I think they also keep a vial of smelling salts nearby.
 
2013-07-17 06:59:07 AM  
While I wasn't raised in a barn, so I can in public basically call anyone whatever they ask to be called by with a straight face, I have to admit that every time someone makes a big deal out of being identified by their obvious biological gender (or getting annoyed when you mess it up, in the case of androgynous people) my actual unspoken reaction is basically "Oh my god who the hell cares".

If shiat like this actually catches on (probably won't) I'll learn it because etiquette is a life skill, but don't expect me to use it outside of formal venues.  PC crap is and always has been an artificial waste of time that conceals an underlying problem instead of or even at the expense of actually fixing it.
 
2013-07-17 06:59:18 AM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: Hey hey hey, the couch is awesome.  Leave our couch alone.


All in all you're just a-nother brick in the toilet-tank-to-help-us-conserve-water-by-taking-up-space-so-the-toilet -flushes-with-less-water


I think I need to redo the meter on that line...
 
2013-07-17 06:59:34 AM  
I have an idea: how about you live in your own little world where you call yourself whatever you want and leave everyone else the hell alone?
 
2013-07-17 06:59:54 AM  

maudibjr: Why does this have to be so confusing.  I'm just going to keep calling everyone dude.


"Bro" also works really well.

25.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 07:00:02 AM  

maudibjr: Why does this have to be so confusing.  I'm just going to keep calling everyone dude.


Are you grooming your poodle? Can you show me your tattoos? Are you in the music business? Are you handling the money? Are you serving the food?
 
2013-07-17 07:02:49 AM  

Nabb1: And people wonder why we are lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math education and more and more high tech jobs are headed overseas.


All for the pierced/painted/trans/gay/straight world we live in, but I saw three otherwise able bodied people rooting through garbage this morning looking for scrap. Trying to make ends meet. They need work, and we're wasting our time navel gazing. Aren't we special.
 
2013-07-17 07:04:02 AM  

Nabb1: And people wonder why we are lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math education and more and more high tech jobs are headed overseas.


Yep, it is the lgbt civil rights movement that destroys our ability to do math and science jobs for less money than a company can hire someone in china to do.

Truly you understand world economics and international business models.
 
2013-07-17 07:04:31 AM  
Slippery slopes are slippery.
 
2013-07-17 07:04:52 AM  
A college I recently visited changed the bathrooms to gender neutral, put a sign on the door saying to lock the door when you go in. WTF So 1 person using it stops anyone else from using the other stalls or urinals.
 
2013-07-17 07:05:19 AM  
sometimes your first impression is correct. that is, that they are indeed wasting 50k a year to ponder whether or not they want to be called he or she. you can do that shiat for free while you're digging ditches. christ, i have an education in the sciences and i regret it not having been stricter. thank god i finished when i did?
 
2013-07-17 07:06:23 AM  

The Muthaship: Nabb1: And people wonder why we are lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math education and more and more high tech jobs are headed overseas.

Pragmatism is oppression.


Logic and reason are tools of Patriarchal Oppression!

//I wonder if this is why feminists and transexuals are at such loggerheads with each other. One group believes gender to be a purely social construct and the other group believes it to be hardwired in the brain. After reading the sad tale of David Reimer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer ) it's hard to defend the idea that gender is malleable and purely based on one's early socialization.
 
2013-07-17 07:06:44 AM  
"Young people"

This is because they are young and have too much time on their hands.  I used to think a lot of stupid shiat like this when I was younger too.  When they grow up and get a job (if they can get a job) and move on to the next phase of their life - they will have a different view.
 
2013-07-17 07:07:41 AM  
"eau, muy gawd, like, hello and like, everything is like, about meh, and like, all descriptors are like, totally sexist and hate speech and seau uhpressive and like, we have, like, all this ever seau IMPORTANT gymnastic like, stuff about words and it's very important cause like, I'm a very serious person because, like I got these ublung glusses and they're like, totally serious and you have to care about all this cause it's like, seau uffensive and like, important and gimmie munny nao."

Next slide, please.
 
2013-07-17 07:08:01 AM  

ox45tallboy: DrPainMD: I couldn't agree more, but, since the internet never forgets and I see the direction the forces of political correctness are going, I'm going to have to say, "Stop being such a close-minded, intolerant bigot."

There. Now, in twenty years, I will be hailed as a progressive thinker who was ahead of his time, and you will be lumped in with Limbaugh, Beck, Gingrich and Stalin. Won't that be fun?

Actually, in his younger days, before the Teddy Roosevelt 'stache, Stalin... well, you be the judge.


I'd I'd hit it and quit it.

Also my PGPs are feminine.
 
2013-07-17 07:08:25 AM  
Oberlin College in Ohio

Well that is your problem right there.
 
2013-07-17 07:08:58 AM  

yourmomlovestetris: it's hard to defend the idea that gender is malleable and purely based on one's early socialization.


That reminds me of the lady I went to law school with who dressed her son in girls clothes half the time.  She took offense when I told her that was the recipe for making a serial killer.

/he'd be about 23 now
//I hope he started with her
 
2013-07-17 07:09:24 AM  

Spad31: ox45tallboy: staplermofo: Ungendered pronouns would be great.  Un-gendering bathrooms would be nice too.  If women peep on men or men hog the couch, it's a small price to pay.  I would hog the shiat out of that couch.

Why don't dudes get a couch? What the hell are women doing in the can that necessitates a couch? I want a couch to chill on in the can. I would totally call the restaurant's number on my cell and ask for my waiter and then tell him bring me another beer to the couch in the men's room. Bonus points if it's a waitress. More bonus points if she does it. Negative points if she changes gender first.

Wait..wait...you WANT to sit in the shiatter and hang out with other dudes while they piss? And you'd want food and beverages in there? What the fark is wrong with you?


The couches are traditionally in a room separate from the stalls. It's like a waiting area.
 
2013-07-17 07:09:55 AM  
"Here come Dick, he's wearing a skirt.
Here comes Jane, y'know she's sporting a chain.
Same hair, revolution... Same build, evolution.
Tomorrow who's gonna fuss?"
 
2013-07-17 07:10:23 AM  

yourmomlovestetris: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer


based only on that tale, one would likely conclude that there is no such thing as transgenderism...
 
2013-07-17 07:11:06 AM  
"You have to go to college."

"Why?"

"Because they will teach you how to be baseless arrogant, self important, dismissive and present laughable authority postures about absolute twaddle with great implied gravitas."

"Uhssome."
 
2013-07-17 07:11:44 AM  
What ever happened to "Pervert"?
 
GBB
2013-07-17 07:11:44 AM  

voodoohotdog: Nabb1: And people wonder why we are lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math education and more and more high tech jobs are headed overseas.

All for the pierced/painted/trans/gay/straight world we live in, but I saw three otherwise able bodied people rooting through garbage this morning looking for scrap. Trying to make ends meet. They need work, and we're wasting our time navel gazing. Aren't we special.


Sounds like they already found work, or at least something to do.
 
2013-07-17 07:12:47 AM  
My response to the title would be, 'You're looking at a face that does not care'
 
2013-07-17 07:13:10 AM  

Yogimus: What ever happened to "Pervert"?


I prefer 'Weirdo'
 
2013-07-17 07:13:47 AM  

Jim_Callahan: While I wasn't raised in a barn, so I can in public basically call anyone whatever they ask to be called by with a straight face, I have to admit that every time someone makes a big deal out of being identified by their obvious biological gender (or getting annoyed when you mess it up, in the case of androgynous people) my actual unspoken reaction is basically "Oh my god who the hell cares".

If shiat like this actually catches on (probably won't) I'll learn it because etiquette is a life skill, but don't expect me to use it outside of formal venues.  PC crap is and always has been an artificial waste of time that conceals an underlying problem instead of or even at the expense of actually fixing it.


You don't care because you don't struggle with it. You take it for granted.

I know of an incredibly brave person who was born a man but just announced their desire to begin the process of gender reassignment. 56 years of being referred to as the wrong gender can wear a person down.

We tend to think of something as less important if it's not something we struggle with.
 
2013-07-17 07:14:15 AM  

ox45tallboy: Rockette


I thought they were accepting people who want to pee like their dog.

jayhawk88: maudibjr: Why does this have to be so confusing.  I'm just going to keep calling everyone dude.

"Bro" also works really well.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x243]


I despise "Bro" with the fury of a thousand suns.  Perhaps it's because people who say "dude" aren't as aggressively obnoxious.

Spad31: Wait..wait...you WANT to sit in the shiatter and hang out with other dudes while they piss? And you'd want food and beverages in there? What the fark is wrong with you?


If you're drinking Bud, what's the difference?

kukukupo: "Young people"

This is because they are young and have too much time on their hands.  I used to think a lot of stupid shiat like this when I was younger too.  When they grow up and get a job (if they can get a job) and move on to the next phase of their life - they will have a different view.


There's your problem right there.

If you continue to have high unemployment among young people, you're only going to get more existential bullshiat permeating our culture.  Therefore, it's in everyone's interest of sanity to find these people work before the millenials decide primary colors are offensive.
 
2013-07-17 07:14:40 AM  

Crewmannumber6: Yogimus: What ever happened to "Pervert"?

I prefer 'Weirdo'


The PC term is Impulse Control Challenged.
 
2013-07-17 07:15:27 AM  

Yogimus: What ever happened to "Pervert"?


We call them "priests" now.
 
2013-07-17 07:16:22 AM  
We encountered high school students who said, I want you to call me Tractor and use pronouns like zee, zim and zer

LOL
 
2013-07-17 07:17:33 AM  

kukukupo: "Young people"

This is because they are young and have too much time on their hands.  I used to think a lot of stupid shiat like this when I was younger too.  When they grow up and get a job (if they can get a job) and move on to the next phase of their life - they will have a different view.


Out of curiosity, how many younguns and trans snowflakes are on your lawn right now?
 
2013-07-17 07:17:54 AM  
i.qkme.meView Full Size


And that's all you need to know until she has to take off the Cinderella hair shirt outfit and pay bills.

On the upside, she will happily be offended for you and express great disdain upon your behalf if you're sporting an acceptable social aberration.

Downside, you will eventually offend her, too.
 
2013-07-17 07:17:59 AM  

dahmers love zombie: We encountered high school students who said, I want you to call me Tractor and use pronouns like zee, zim and zer

LOL


images.cafepress.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 07:18:11 AM  
My preferred pronoun is whichever.
 
2013-07-17 07:19:43 AM  
Y'know, since it's in colloquial use anyway, I don't get why the generic plural hasn't been deemed by whoever is in charge as acceptable. Gender may be a wide spectrum, but we don't need as many pronouns as there are subgenres of techno.
 
2013-07-17 07:20:31 AM  

ox45tallboy: Why don't dudes get a couch? What the hell are women doing in the can that necessitates a couch? I want a couch to chill on in the can. I would totally call the restaurant's number on my cell and ask for my waiter and then tell him bring me another beer to the couch in the men's room. Bonus points if it's a waitress. More bonus points if she does it. Negative points if she changes gender first.


...and THAT is why you do not get a couch!
 
2013-07-17 07:21:23 AM  

dahmers love zombie: We encountered high school students who said, I want you to call me Tractor and use pronouns like zee, zim and zer

LOL


What's wrong with shklee?
 
2013-07-17 07:21:32 AM  

psychosis_inducing: Y'know, since it's in colloquial use anyway, I don't get why the generic plural hasn't been deemed by whoever is in charge as acceptable. Gender may be a wide spectrum, but we don't need as many pronouns as there are subgenres of techno.


Maybe they should just post their pronoun of preference chart on porch by the door of their house and glare at their friends until they stop getting it wrong.  For progress.
 
2013-07-17 07:22:58 AM  
I always figured trans would be the next "in" thing, but we shot WAY past transgender into this weird world of amorphous constantly shifting nontraditional binary gender declarations.

I guess I'm a closed minded transformer...deep down, you're either male, or female.  may not match with your body, but your core identity is one or the other.

The sad thing, I actually see all this BS reverting trans rights.  We're just barely getting to the point where governments don't require surgery to validate gender.  I see that going down the drain when some of these whackadoos demand recognition of their asexual third-gender spiritual designation on ID.
 
2013-07-17 07:22:58 AM  
I'm fine with that so long as "ze, zim," and "zer" never catch on. Because that's just ridiculous and we're all going to sound like first generation French immigrants and the "Ze missiles, I am le tired" joke is going to get really old really quickly.
 
2013-07-17 07:23:15 AM  
If that happened to me at Olive Garden, I'd say: "Your gender pronoun is I didn't come here for a lecture, keeping your farking breadsticks, I'm going next door to Red Lobster. "
 
2013-07-17 07:23:30 AM  
I have no problem with the concept or the practice, but

"We encountered high school students who said, I want you to call me Tractor and use pronouns like zee, zim and zer."

...now you're just farking with me.
 
2013-07-17 07:24:46 AM  

psychosis_inducing: Y'know, since it's in colloquial use anyway, I don't get why the generic plural hasn't been deemed by whoever is in charge as acceptable. Gender may be a wide spectrum, but we don't need as many pronouns as there are subgenres of techno.


Spivak sounds like it could be a form of old-school European techno.
 
2013-07-17 07:25:10 AM  
STFU and bring me some garlicky breadsticks...and salad, and don't put all the dressing in the bottom of the bowl for chrissakes!
 
2013-07-17 07:25:20 AM  

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: I always figured trans would be the next "in" thing, but we shot WAY past transgender into this weird world of amorphous constantly shifting nontraditional binary gender declarations.

I guess I'm a closed minded transformer...deep down, you're either male, or female.  may not match with your body, but your core identity is one or the other.

The sad thing, I actually see all this BS reverting trans rights.  We're just barely getting to the point where governments don't require surgery to validate gender.  I see that going down the drain when some of these whackadoos demand recognition of their asexual third-gender spiritual designation on ID.


The point isn't the gum, the point is cracking it loudly and getting terribly eye roll-y when asked to stop.  You know, by the oppressive folks.
 
2013-07-17 07:25:44 AM  
If someone does not want to be identified by "he" or "she" because that is based on whatever reproductive organs they possess, maybe they would prefer to be identified by a gender-neutral organ. I suggest the terminal end of the digestive tract.
 
2013-07-17 07:25:58 AM  

voodoohotdog: Nabb1: And people wonder why we are lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math education and more and more high tech jobs are headed overseas.

All for the pierced/painted/trans/gay/straight world we live in, but I saw three otherwise able bodied people rooting through garbage this morning looking for scrap. Trying to make ends meet. They need work, and we're wasting our time navel gazing. Aren't we special.


Because we can only solve one problem or address one set of concerns at a time? If that is the case, let's start with the elementary problem that most of this country can't do basic informal or formal logic and forget everything else.
 
2013-07-17 07:26:58 AM  

Donnchadha: God Is My Co-Pirate: Hey hey hey, the couch is awesome.  Leave our couch alone.

All in all you're just a-nother brick in the toilet-tank-to-help-us-conserve-water-by-taking-up-space-so-the-toilet -flushes-with-less-water


I think I need to redo the meter on that line...


All in all you're just another prick in the stall...
 
2013-07-17 07:28:37 AM  

CheatCommando: voodoohotdog: Nabb1: And people wonder why we are lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math education and more and more high tech jobs are headed overseas.

All for the pierced/painted/trans/gay/straight world we live in, but I saw three otherwise able bodied people rooting through garbage this morning looking for scrap. Trying to make ends meet. They need work, and we're wasting our time navel gazing. Aren't we special.

Because we can only solve one problem or address one set of concerns at a time? If that is the case, let's start with the elementary problem that most of this country can't do basic informal or formal logic and forget everything else.


More importantly, did you ask what the starving poor scroungers saw as their personal gender identification construct before pointing out the aluminum cans they missed?
 
2013-07-17 07:29:38 AM  
If we are now required to recognize an individual's preferred gender pronoun then fine, I am selecting mine:

You: icky-icky-icky-icky-kapang-zoop-boing
Him: yabba-dabba-doodle-do
His: owowowowowowowowowowowowowowow-ooooop-ow

Anyone who does not respect my gender identification is an evil monster who makes Hitler look like a caring and loving pro-zionist gentleman.
 
2013-07-17 07:29:59 AM  

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: I always figured trans would be the next "in" thing, but we shot WAY past transgender into this weird world of amorphous constantly shifting nontraditional binary gender declarations.

I guess I'm a closed minded transformer...deep down, you're either male, or female.  may not match with your body, but your core identity is one or the other.

The sad thing, I actually see all this BS reverting trans rights.  We're just barely getting to the point where governments don't require surgery to validate gender.  I see that going down the drain when some of these whackadoos demand recognition of their asexual third-gender spiritual designation on ID.


That's actually the point that the trans woman brought up on the report yesterday. She said something like "I just got into this gender. Could we maybe wait more than a year before dismantling it?"
 
2013-07-17 07:30:28 AM  
I'm cool with this, as long as I can still just say "Diet Coke" without looking up from my menu.
 
2013-07-17 07:30:59 AM  
There is a less than oft considered notion about university life that holds that, should somebody stick their head so far up their ass that they can chew their own food twice, that they might come up with with an astounding bit of insight.  So far, no.
 
2013-07-17 07:31:02 AM  

bighairyguy: If that happened to me at Olive Garden, I'd say: "Your gender pronoun is I didn't come here for a lecture, keeping your farking breadsticks, I'm going next door to Red Lobster. "


You takin' her to Red Lobster with the cheddar biscuits? The fam ain't eatin' cheddar biscuits, but this random broad is eatin' cheddar biscuits?
 
2013-07-17 07:31:03 AM  

God Is My Co-Pirate: Donnchadha: God Is My Co-Pirate: Hey hey hey, the couch is awesome.  Leave our couch alone.

All in all you're just a-nother brick in the toilet-tank-to-help-us-conserve-water-by-taking-up-space-so-the-toilet -flushes-with-less-water


I think I need to redo the meter on that line...

All in all you're just another prick in the stall...


your just another gay in teh gay
 
2013-07-17 07:32:06 AM  

bunner: IsThatYourFinalAnswer: I always figured trans would be the next "in" thing, but we shot WAY past transgender into this weird world of amorphous constantly shifting nontraditional binary gender declarations.

I guess I'm a closed minded transformer...deep down, you're either male, or female.  may not match with your body, but your core identity is one or the other.

The sad thing, I actually see all this BS reverting trans rights.  We're just barely getting to the point where governments don't require surgery to validate gender.  I see that going down the drain when some of these whackadoos demand recognition of their asexual third-gender spiritual designation on ID.

The point isn't the gum, the point is cracking it loudly and getting terribly eye roll-y when asked to stop.  You know, by the oppressive folks.


I hear ya, it just gets on my nerves.  A "normal" person has an unfortunate "you're offending me!" encounter with one of these attention whores, it sours them to us normal trans people, who just want to be recognized as normal folks.

Most trans people aren't going to spazz if you use the wrong gender pronoun.  Hell, a good chunk won't even correct you, because it just causes more unwanted attention.  If you ain't sure, feel free to ask.
 
2013-07-17 07:32:13 AM  

bighairyguy: If that happened to me at Olive Garden, I'd say: "Your gender pronoun is I didn't come here for a lecture, keeping your farking breadsticks, I'm going next door to Red Lobster. "


Which is owned by Olive Garden and will probably have the same policy.
 
2013-07-17 07:33:13 AM  

bunner: CheatCommando: voodoohotdog: Nabb1: And people wonder why we are lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math education and more and more high tech jobs are headed overseas.

All for the pierced/painted/trans/gay/straight world we live in, but I saw three otherwise able bodied people rooting through garbage this morning looking for scrap. Trying to make ends meet. They need work, and we're wasting our time navel gazing. Aren't we special.

Because we can only solve one problem or address one set of concerns at a time? If that is the case, let's start with the elementary problem that most of this country can't do basic informal or formal logic and forget everything else.

More importantly, did you ask what the starving poor scroungers saw as their personal gender identification construct before pointing out the aluminum cans they missed?


Or maybe, you know, offer to buy them a meal, even if it was at Subway or McDerp's?
 
2013-07-17 07:33:42 AM  

The Muthaship: That reminds me of the lady I went to law school with who dressed her son in girls clothes half the time. She took offense when I told her that was the recipe for making a serial killer.

/he'd be about 23 now
//I hope he started with her


Did the kid want to dress in girl clothes or did the mom just decide to do it?
b/c if the kid wanted it, fine. If the kid didn't want it...wtf?!

Sometimes I feel sorry for men with their restrictive dress choices...especially now in the summer when I can get away with wearing pretty much whatever I want(especially since a lot of workplaces are changing their dress codes...it's like as a woman I can wear whatever the hell I want -within reason) but the men are still stuck in their button-downs and trousers.
 
2013-07-17 07:34:15 AM  
It is you're own fault for dining at Olive Garden.
 
2013-07-17 07:35:14 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: there are plenty of Fabulous people who don't go to 11 with the gay thing. Just because he is gay doesn't mean he needs corrective surgery.


You do understand that gay and transgender are actually different things, don't you? There are transgendered females (genetically male) who are attracted to women and vice versa.
 
2013-07-17 07:35:18 AM  

Jim_Callahan: While I wasn't raised in a barn, so I can in public basically call anyone whatever they ask to be called by with a straight face, I have to admit that every time someone makes a big deal out of being identified by their obvious biological gender (or getting annoyed when you mess it up, in the case of androgynous people) my actual unspoken reaction is basically "Oh my god who the hell cares".

If shiat like this actually catches on (probably won't) I'll learn it because etiquette is a life skill, but don't expect me to use it outside of formal venues.  PC crap is and always has been an artificial waste of time that conceals an underlying problem instead of or even at the expense of actually fixing it.


Catches on? Read that last sentence and see if it doesn't describe the last 20 years in Congress.
 
2013-07-17 07:35:29 AM  

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: I hear ya, it just gets on my nerves. A "normal" person has an unfortunate "you're offending me!" encounter with one of these attention whores, it sours them to us normal trans people, who just want to be recognized as normal folks.


like!

unfortunately, us "cis" people rarely hear about trans people, and when we do, we generally just hear about the attention whores...
 
2013-07-17 07:35:39 AM  
It'll get over it.
 
2013-07-17 07:36:04 AM  
You know, I simply don't care. If you look like a "he", I'm going to call you "he". If you look like a "she", I'm going to call you "she". If I can't tell, I'll pick one. And I really don't care if your current neurosis makes you want a different one. If you want to be called one or the other, present yourself so that is visually obvious. It isn't everyone else's responsibility to figure out your issues.
 
2013-07-17 07:36:58 AM  

Fromageball: The Muthaship: That reminds me of the lady I went to law school with who dressed her son in girls clothes half the time. She took offense when I told her that was the recipe for making a serial killer.

/he'd be about 23 now
//I hope he started with her

Did the kid want to dress in girl clothes or did the mom just decide to do it?
b/c if the kid wanted it, fine. If the kid didn't want it...wtf?!

Sometimes I feel sorry for men with their restrictive dress choices...especially now in the summer when I can get away with wearing pretty much whatever I want(especially since a lot of workplaces are changing their dress codes...it's like as a woman I can wear whatever the hell I want -within reason) but the men are still stuck in their button-downs and trousers.


Sure, but on the other hand, men can get away with buying a lot fewer clothes.
 
2013-07-17 07:37:01 AM  

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: who just want to be recognized as normal folks.


That's an ostensibly lofty goal but I'm pretty sure Ward Cleaver is out blowing bums for SoCo in the Greyhound station bog in a tutu while listening to the Scissor Sisters and slamming meth with a turkey baster fit, so good luck on the normal index.  See, the problem with moving everything that doesn't fit comfortably in one's private Idaho into the margins is that eventually, we all end up in an S&M crack dungeon in N. Hollywood and completely out of people to be oppressed by.  Which isn't all that attractive if you can't change the channel.
 
2013-07-17 07:38:09 AM  
The people of Universe Gamma agree to go on a date with Yivo. But when Yivo doesn't seem to be making any kind of commitment, they decide to dump shklim. However, when they prepare to give shklim the news, Yivo proposes to Universe Gamma, and they accept. Everyone in Universe Gamma enters Yivo's universe and lives on top of shklim, which looks very similar to the concept of
 
2013-07-17 07:38:10 AM  

Fromageball: Did the kid want to dress in girl clothes or did the mom just decide to do it?


She decided to do it.  She wanted him to know what it was like.  It was a parenting choice.  She thought he's see what it felt like to be treated differently based on what gender you were perceived to be.

The f*cking kid was 3.

She was a crazy b*tch in general.
 
2013-07-17 07:38:57 AM  

Smackledorfer: Nabb1: And people wonder why we are lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math education and more and more high tech jobs are headed overseas.

Yep, it is the lgbt civil rights movement that destroys our ability to do math and science jobs for less money than a company can hire someone in china to do.

Truly you understand world economics and international business models.



Do you understand the drive by universities to be top ranked as a research university, and the cheapest way to do that is to hire a bunch of idiots who "research" gender and women's rights issues?

Or other liberal arts BS.  They can hire 2 or 3 of those professors for the cost it takes to make one lab for a physics professor to research in.

Economics.  Now I'm using the word too.
 
2013-07-17 07:39:06 AM  

CheatCommando: Or maybe, you know, offer to buy them a meal, even if it was at Subway or McDerp's?


I do stuff like that all the time.  Lately I'm having trouble feeding me and technically, I have three  jobs.   :  /  I sort of doubt this piece of fluff in TFA article is gonna save the world this week.
 
2013-07-17 07:39:48 AM  
i26.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 07:40:01 AM  
i26.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 07:41:19 AM  

Fromageball: ...it's like as a woman I can wear whatever the hell I want -within reason) but the men are still stuck in their button-downs and trousers.


And they wonder why they earn less...
 
2013-07-17 07:41:28 AM  

proteus_b: IsThatYourFinalAnswer: I hear ya, it just gets on my nerves. A "normal" person has an unfortunate "you're offending me!" encounter with one of these attention whores, it sours them to us normal trans people, who just want to be recognized as normal folks.

like!

unfortunately, us "cis" people rarely hear about trans people, and when we do, we generally just hear about the attention whores...


Most trans people stay really quiet about the topic (for obvious reasons). We don't WANT the attention the AWs thrive on.  We just want to be the gender our brains identify us as.

As for wanting to hear about trans, Fark has a pretty decently sized Trans Brigade.  If you ever want a question answered, toss it in a transformer thread, one of us will get to you soon enough.
 
2013-07-17 07:42:11 AM  
Wear a name tag. I call you what it says.
 
2013-07-17 07:42:18 AM  
Because proles don't need a gender.
Amirite?
 
2013-07-17 07:42:44 AM  

Bontesla: You don't care because you don't struggle with it. You take it for granted.


No, I don't care because  I don't care.  I grew up with several siblings, some dogs, and a name that's got an ambiguous pronunciation, gender and ethnicity (no, my handle isn't my actual name, I'm not that dumb).  I've been called everything from my little sister's name to the dog's name, had my gender reversed on official paperwork repeatedly, and had people pronounce my surname in a manner consistent with a region that my actual ancestors would automatically have murdered and vice-versa.

I deal with it an accept any designation that correctly singles me out from the people I'm standing next to, because I'm not a self-important prat that thinks that the basic functionality of communication comes second to my own delusion that other people should find my personal shiat important.

That's the thing about your personal issues, they're personal as much because they aren't relevant to other people most of the time as because they're disproportionately important to you.  Dealing with that and not taking offense is one of the fundamental characteristics of an adult as opposed to a child.

//I sincerely doubt that your friend is getting reassignment surgery simply because she's sick of being called "mister", I'd guess it has something to do with feeling like she's actually in the wrong body and wanting to fix that... which, again, personal issue, so up to her to fix as she pleases.  Also not something making a new pronoun for her was going to fix.
//At least by default I'd give her more credit than that, just assuming she's a typical random person.
 
2013-07-17 07:43:58 AM  
if you're totally for gender equality you wouldn't care what i call you
 
2013-07-17 07:44:06 AM  
I was SO hoping this was a "real" consumerist story.

99.9% I'm not looking to have sex with you, so I don't care what your sexual preference is.  If I am interested, I'll spend some time getting to know you.

The transgendered people I've met would make the craziest readhead seem sane.
 
2013-07-17 07:45:12 AM  

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: one of us will get to you soon enough.


^ Limbaugh was right!
 
2013-07-17 07:45:59 AM  

ox45tallboy: They're calling for more fluid categories beyond just male and female, as NPR's Margot Adler explains.

I'm totally fine with people who were born with a different sexual identity than what matches their naughty bits. It happens sometimes, and these days, there is no reason not to live a happy and fulfilled life wearing the gender in which you feel comfortable, and having sexual relations with whichever consenting adults wish to do so. Having said that, if your gender identity is changing,on a regular basis, perhaps you need to seek professional help. This is not normal or healthy, and other people catering to this whim is not helpful to your mental health.


Nor our mental health.
 
2013-07-17 07:46:20 AM  
Let's just go with it/it/its. Otherwise it's too confusing.
 
2013-07-17 07:46:28 AM  
Take out all of the pictures of those who came before you.  Your ancestors, family, your linear heritage.

Look into their eyes.

You are the apex of their genetics, hopes and dreams and the spark of who they are and who they were that carries them into the future.  You are the only reason they ever lived.

Stop embarrassing the piss out of them with overwrought malarkey.  You're welcome.
 
2013-07-17 07:48:50 AM  
I'd complain to the manageress.
 
2013-07-17 07:49:35 AM  

Aulus: OK, maybe it's because I am hetero and in  my mid-sixties, but were I in such a situation and someone I had never met chose to introduce themself that way, I'd get up and walk out.

Look, I do not care how you conduct yourself gender or sexual wise in private, but do not feel the need to slap me in the face with it when we are not interacting intimately and/or in public and especially if we have never met and are unlikely to in the future.

IOW, STFU and act like an adult.


I don't believe anyone actually talks like that--that's the 'joke'. If I introduced myself by saying "Hi, I'm CowardlyLion, and I'm a heteronormative, cisgendered postpostgrad male," it would be just as cumbersome and annoying (assuming I'm introducing myself to a stranger and there was no preestablished want or need for all of that information or terminology).
 
2013-07-17 07:50:40 AM  
In over 10 years on Fark, I don't believe I've ever seen such a combination of baiting headline plus nasty comments.

Westboro would be proud.

/fade out with 'welcome to fark' memes
 
2013-07-17 07:51:09 AM  

Sybarite: I'd complain to the manageress.


Cockman oppressor.
 
2013-07-17 07:51:43 AM  

Sybarite: I'd complain to the manageress.


That's managerarian, manageringist, mana.. Yo, biznatch, da soup cold!
 
2013-07-17 07:52:31 AM  

CheatCommando: bighairyguy: If that happened to me at Olive Garden, I'd say: "Your gender pronoun is I didn't come here for a lecture, keeping your farking breadsticks, I'm going next door to Red Lobster. "

Which is owned by Olive Garden and will probably have the same policy.


I know that, that why they're usually right next door.  Just spinning the wheel and hoping for a server who keep their personal issues in the kitchen where they belong.
 
2013-07-17 07:53:42 AM  

TheGogmagog: I was SO hoping this was a "real" consumerist story.

99.9% I'm not looking to have sex with you, so I don't care what your sexual preference is.  If I am interested, I'll spend some time getting to know you.


This doesn't really have anything to do with sexual preference, from what I'm reading. Nobody taking the time to explain their preferred gender pronouns to you is trying to get in your pants.
 
2013-07-17 07:53:43 AM  

UNC_Samurai: bighairyguy: If that happened to me at Olive Garden, I'd say: "Your gender pronoun is I didn't come here for a lecture, keeping your farking breadsticks, I'm going next door to Red Lobster. "

You takin' her to Red Lobster with the cheddar biscuits? The fam ain't eatin' cheddar biscuits, but this random broad is eatin' cheddar biscuits?


I can stay home and eat RL cheddar biscuits.  The mix is $5.98 at Sam's Club.
 
2013-07-17 07:54:08 AM  
Since I mentioned questions, here's the answers to the most common questions:

Since I was little.
The bathroom my "brain" gender identifies with.
It stops working reliably on hormones.
Very expensive, and most insurance doesn't cover it.
It's not contagious.
No I can't have kids.

And, the biggest question of all....

Do you normally ask people about their genitals, and major surgeries they may have had?
 
2013-07-17 07:54:18 AM  

Todd300: Westboro would be proud.


Yeah, I think anybody who might be less than enthusiastic about helping nudge their native language into the tree chipper one more time probably wants to kill queers for Jesus.  Baseless hyperbole.  How does it work?
 
2013-07-17 07:54:27 AM  

ox45tallboy: [nyulocal.com image 750x350]

Or the direction you prefer to roll your wheelchair, I guess.


That's what the 'family' rest rooms are for.

/The sign is missing hoverounds.
 
2013-07-17 07:54:42 AM  

Bontesla: You don't care because you don't struggle with it. You take it for granted.


I have many transgender friends. Not a single one of them has attempted to invent an alternate set of pronouns for themselves. They started out as one set of existing pronouns and moved to another existing set of pronouns.

This personal pronoun shiat is the epitome of bored, spoiled, suburban white kid problems.

If I'm ever presented with the statement "my preferred pronouns are X/Y/Z" my response will be "how about I just call you narcissist?"
 
2013-07-17 07:55:37 AM  

psychicdeath99: If someone does not want to be identified by "he" or "she" because that is based on whatever reproductive organs they possess, maybe they would prefer to be identified by a gender-neutral organ. I suggest the terminal end of the digestive tract.


Your logic is impeccable. Even if they didn't take your suggestion, I'd still be cool with calling some gender-non-specific person "Spleen" or "Toe".
 
2013-07-17 07:57:18 AM  

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: No I can't have kids.


People really ask if you can get pregnant? That's just plain silly.
 
2013-07-17 07:57:47 AM  
Just ask

Do you prefer Mr. Miss or Miss Mr.
 
2013-07-17 07:59:16 AM  
I am open minded, friend of hetero,homo, confused, intersexed, and whatever gender assignment you are calling yourself.

As long as I do not have to hear about it all the damn time I could care less. If you keep whining about it I will then either tell you to shut up or offer an opinion you might not like.

I do not have to care about Jews for Jesus or that even though you look like steve buscemi but want to dress like Carmen Miranda. My only care is that I am polite and that I can get to the end of the day with the least amount of white noise.

We all eat shiat and die.
 
2013-07-17 07:59:37 AM  
Please refer to me as Ford F-150 Supercab.  My preferred gender pronouns are Ford/Ferd.  I am a transautomotivist.
 
2013-07-17 08:00:00 AM  
And then one charming daffy young woman told me, oh, yes, today, I'm just using made up pronouns.

Daffy. The word you are looking for is "daffy".
 
2013-07-17 08:00:07 AM  

cwolf20: Just ask

Do you prefer Mr. Miss or Miss Mr.


MIZZZZZ MY NAME IS MIZZZ FRASER!
 
2013-07-17 08:00:18 AM  
I guess I should point out that the hottest girl I ever dated, I think my chances greatly improved because I offered sympathy towards trans people (specifically the lack of funding for surgery...) She had a trans ex (I didn't know that at the time) and my open-mindedness must have kept that conversation going. I'm a damned attractive guy (my mom says, anyhow...), but this girl was still way out of my league. That hot. Anyways, maybe you guys should think of it like the "bro-choice" thing meanwhile...
 
2013-07-17 08:01:39 AM  
We encountered high school students who said, I want you to call me Tractor and use pronouns like zee, zim and zer.

No... If you're not down with he/him/his or she/her/hers, you're getting singular they/them/theirs... You don't get to invent new words and unilaterally add them to the language and force everyone else to use them...

Besides, those words don't even work well as an invented set of pronouns! I can see "zee" and "zim" as analogues of "he" and "him", but WTF is "zer"?? It would seem to be an analogue of "her", but that inflection is already covered by "zim"! If it's meant to be used for the possessive, it just doesn't flow well... Maybe make it "zers" or "zis" instead...
 
2013-07-17 08:02:01 AM  

Nabb1: And people wonder why we are lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math education and more and more high tech jobs are headed overseas.


Not to put too fine a point on it, but much of the industrialized world was talking about this a decade ago.
 
2013-07-17 08:02:10 AM  
we've got to nip this heterophobia in the bud before it gets out of hand.
 
2013-07-17 08:02:26 AM  

Jim_Callahan: No, I don't care because I don't care. I grew up with several siblings, some dogs, and a name that's got an ambiguous pronunciation, gender and ethnicity (no, my handle isn't my actual name, I'm not that dumb). I've been called everything from my little sister's name to the dog's name, had my gender reversed on official paperwork repeatedly, and had people pronounce my surname in a manner consistent with a region that my actual ancestors would automatically have murdered and vice-versa.


076dd0a50e0c1255009e-bd4b8aabaca29897bc751dfaf75b290c.r40.cf1.rackcdn.comView Full Size


We named the dog Indiana.
 
2013-07-17 08:03:01 AM  

DrPainMD: There. Now, in twenty years, I will be hailed as a progressive thinker who was ahead of his time, and you will be lumped in with Limbaugh, Beck, Gingrich and Stalin. Won't that be fun?


In 50, you'll be seen as no different from Limbaugh if you hold a single view that's not PC in the future. Just look at the crap Heinlein gets for his blatant racism and sexism in Starship Troopers, written in the '50s, with a Filipino protagonist and a majority of naval officers being women. In the '50s. Or Tolkien, who was sexist for not having more women in the story he started writing in the '30s which only had women being some of the most powerful warriors in the story. Go back further, and when a slave-owner says to other slave-owners, "You know this may not be a good idea. In fact, it might be pretty farking immoral," he's viewed as a colossal hypocrite rather than a guy breaking with traditional thought.

So, yea, you'll be Limbaugh. So will I. None of us get out of here without being bigoted farks in someone's eyes in the future.
 
2013-07-17 08:03:33 AM  

bunner: CheatCommando: Or maybe, you know, offer to buy them a meal, even if it was at Subway or McDerp's?

I do stuff like that all the time.  Lately I'm having trouble feeding me and technically, I have three  jobs.   :  /  I sort of doubt this piece of fluff in TFA article is gonna save the world this week.


I was more pointing out that the original poster claimed this was such a major problem that we could not work on other lesser problems as well,  and then ignored it.  Which is fairly typical - he doesn't care about the supposed problem, he's just being an asshole.
 
2013-07-17 08:03:48 AM  

Smackledorfer: Nabb1: And people wonder why we are lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world in science and math education and more and more high tech jobs are headed overseas.

Yep, it is the lgbt civil rights movement that destroys our ability to do math and science jobs for less money than a company can hire someone in china to do.

Truly you understand world economics and international business models.


Why not respond to his argument instead of deliberately mischaracterizing it in order to put him on the defensive?
 
2013-07-17 08:03:54 AM  

UNC_Samurai: We named the dog Indiana.


I liked that dog!
 
2013-07-17 08:04:20 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: IsThatYourFinalAnswer: No I can't have kids.

People really ask if you can get pregnant? That's just plain silly.


Yeah, people ask.  Granted, I do live in rural Midwest.  We're just now getting used to African Americans living in town.
 
2013-07-17 08:04:25 AM  

The Southern Logic Company: Please refer to me as Ford F-150 Supercab.  My preferred gender pronouns are Ford/Ferd.  I am a transautomotivist.


I prefer to be identified as transwarp

25.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 08:05:23 AM  
I am sure that the Fark comments on an article about the gender spectrum is about the last useful place to post this but hey, why not?

Gender is not binary.

Not all people are simply Male or Female.

Regardless of how you define Male or Female, there are people who are both or neither.

If you want to go with the simplistic "is the 23rd set of chromosomes XX or XY?"  You will find that there are people with more than just two, see Aneuploidy.

If you decide to go with sex organs, there are people with both and people with neither.

Needless to say, if you go with characteristics or other physiology you see a wide range of characteristics among people that cross gender norms.

It is simple to categorize gender as binary but gender is no more binary than race or sexual orientation.  Just because you identify strongly with one gender, and perhaps even look the part, does not mean that everyone does or that everyone identifies with either gender.
 
2013-07-17 08:05:23 AM  
How about "I'm here to have dinner, not indulge your psychoses"?
 
2013-07-17 08:07:04 AM  

Smackledorfer: Yep, it is the lgbt civil rights movement that destroys our ability to do math and science jobs for less money than a company can hire someone in china to do.

Truly you understand world economics and international business models.


by your logic, wouldn't it be cheaper to outsource our queer studies programs as well? why only sciences? hell, six hundred left-handed homosexuals with perfect pitch are born every second in peking...
 
2013-07-17 08:08:08 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: I have no problem with the concept or the practice, but

"We encountered high school students who said, I want you to call me Tractor and use pronouns like zee, zim and zer."

...now you're just farking with me.


Yeah, I'm pretty damn liberal and I still think this is stupid. And probably a sign that they were spoiled as a child and have grown up expecting the world to conform to their wishes and beliefs.  That said, if someone wants me to refer to them as the opposite of their apparent sex, I'm cool with it - it's a courtesy that costs me nothing and makes them happy; it's just polite.

Expecting me to memorize awkward and pointless terms you've just made up, though? Fark off.
 
2013-07-17 08:08:55 AM  
why don't they ahve DRUGS to treat this condition?  like WELLBUTRIN or ZOLOFT
 
2013-07-17 08:11:07 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Bontesla: Jim_Callahan: While I wasn't raised in a barn, so I can in public basically call anyone whatever they ask to be called by with a straight face, I have to admit that every time someone makes a big deal out of being identified by their obvious biological gender (or getting annoyed when you mess it up, in the case of androgynous people) my actual unspoken reaction is basically "Oh my god who the hell cares".

If shiat like this actually catches on (probably won't) I'll learn it because etiquette is a life skill, but don't expect me to use it outside of formal venues.  PC crap is and always has been an artificial waste of time that conceals an underlying problem instead of or even at the expense of actually fixing it.

You don't care because you don't struggle with it. You take it for granted.

I know of an incredibly brave person who was born a man but just announced their desire to begin the process of gender reassignment. 56 years of being referred to as the wrong gender can wear a person down.

We tend to think of something as less important if it's not something we struggle with.

there are plenty of Fabulous people who don't go to 11 with the gay thing. Just because he is gay doesn't mean he needs corrective surgery.


Identifying how you'd like to be addressed isn't going to 11. You're just being silly.
 
2013-07-17 08:11:07 AM  

proteus_b: yourmomlovestetris: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

based only on that tale, one would likely conclude that there is no such thing as transgenderism...


That's what you take from that?

I'd say based on that tale, one would likely conclude that gender identity is hardwired in the brain is not taught or learned, or "malleable".
 
2013-07-17 08:11:33 AM  
As long as they have a pretty face, a great body and a good set of coconuts I have no problem porking them up the kazoo.
 
2013-07-17 08:13:32 AM  

boinkingbill: As long as they have a pretty face, a great body and a good set of coconuts I have no problem porking them up the kazoo.


More or less this

A warm hole is a warm hole
 
2013-07-17 08:13:42 AM  
I'll call you Don/Dawn.
 
2013-07-17 08:14:00 AM  
And the tail continues to wag the dog.
 
2013-07-17 08:14:02 AM  
Hi I'm Ken. I use she/her/ma'am/miss/mrs he/him/mr/sir and IT, pick one.
 
2013-07-17 08:14:18 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: "We encountered high school students who said, I want you to call me Tractor and use pronouns like zee, zim and zer."


"That's nice, I will refer to you as 'food slave' you may call me either 'Master' or 'Dread Lord'. As a Dread Lord, my personal pronoun supersedes yours. Now go get your supervisor, food slave, so that I may explain to him why I am leaving your establishment."
 
2013-07-17 08:15:12 AM  

scanman61: I'd say based on that tale, one would likely conclude that gender identity is hardwired in the brain is not taught or learned, or "malleable".


Indeed what I meant to say. But I am having a stupid day... about 10,000th in a row. Pure dumb luck...
 
2013-07-17 08:15:31 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Bontesla: You don't care because you don't struggle with it. You take it for granted.

I have many transgender friends. Not a single one of them has attempted to invent an alternate set of pronouns for themselves. They started out as one set of existing pronouns and moved to another existing set of pronouns.

This personal pronoun shiat is the epitome of bored, spoiled, suburban white kid problems.

If I'm ever presented with the statement "my preferred pronouns are X/Y/Z" my response will be "how about I just call you narcissist?"


The goal isn't to create a new identity but to raise awareness.
 
2013-07-17 08:15:33 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: As a Dread Lord


Approves:

myriadmagputer.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 08:15:38 AM  
I still don't know why "herm" hasn't caught on.
 
2013-07-17 08:15:38 AM  

Jon iz teh kewl: why don't they ahve have DRUGS to treat this condition?  like WELLBUTRIN or ZOLOFT


How do you know that these dummies aren't "genderqueer" because of Wellbutrin/Zoloft/Ritalin or whatever it is their parents gave them as kids so the parents would be 'left alone'?
 
2013-07-17 08:15:45 AM  
A couple of decades ago, I had decided I really wished there was a genderless pronoun in English to use for all humans to avoid all this.
 
2013-07-17 08:16:57 AM  

Mock26: If we are now required to recognize an individual's preferred gender pronoun then fine, I am selecting mine:

You: icky-icky-icky-icky-kapang-zoop-boing
Him: yabba-dabba-doodle-do
His: owowowowowowowowowowowowowowow-ooooop-ow

Anyone who does not respect my gender identification is an evil monster who makes Hitler look like a caring and loving pro-zionist gentleman.


yababoon.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 08:17:05 AM  
The correct answer is: be open minded and cool about other people, AND be open minded and cool about the language they use, because hey, shiat's all a little fluid.

Don't be an uptight dick.
 
2013-07-17 08:18:00 AM  

bbcard1: I still don't know why "herm" hasn't caught on.


Because of the dick statues, I'm gonna guess.
 
2013-07-17 08:18:05 AM  

Bontesla: The goal isn't to create a new identity but to raise awareness.


Excellent. In the future you may refer to me as "His August Presence" or "Dread Lord" so that we can further raise awareness of the oppressiveness of gendered pronouns.

/[yourenothelping.jpg]
 
2013-07-17 08:18:05 AM  
Hi I'm Farkin' XXX XXXXX and my PGP is Master. Furthermore I will only respond to statements that both begin and end with "Sir" and will not be paying my bill if these guide lines are not met.

I have friends all over the spectrum, all of them want to be treated like a normal person, which they are.

/I hate people who take themselves too seriously
//sometimes the LGBTQUBF community goes too far
 
2013-07-17 08:18:58 AM  

IAAl: I am sure that the Fark comments on an article about the gender spectrum is about the last useful place to post this but hey, why not?

Gender is not binary.

Not all people are simply Male or Female.

Regardless of how you define Male or Female, there are people who are both or neither.

If you want to go with the simplistic "is the 23rd set of chromosomes XX or XY?"  You will find that there are people with more than just two, see Aneuploidy.

If you decide to go with sex organs, there are people with both and people with neither.

Needless to say, if you go with characteristics or other physiology you see a wide range of characteristics among people that cross gender norms.

It is simple to categorize gender as binary but gender is no more binary than race or sexual orientation.  Just because you identify strongly with one gender, and perhaps even look the part, does not mean that everyone does or that everyone identifies with either gender.


You're confusing "butch" and "fem" as actual core psych identities.  Gender identity is binary.  It may not match the genitals you are born with, but it's one or the other.  It's a very core component of the human mind.

Yes, you can be a femmy male. (hi Ghastly!)  You can be a butch female.  You can be a male who enjoys stereotypical female activities and norms, and vice versa.  None of this has any bearing on your core gender identity.

I hear it all the time, "Well, I'm male BUT (insert cross-gender activities)".

Trust me, if you IDed as male this week, female next, 70%/30% for two weeks, totally asexual after that....you would be mentally screwed up.  Hell, look at the mental/emotional disorders "simple" transgender people come with!
 
2013-07-17 08:19:14 AM  

bbcard1: I still don't know why "herm" hasn't caught on.


img118.imageshack.usView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 08:20:08 AM  

BowtoMogul: //sometimes the LGBTQUBF community goes too far


Better have otherkin in there someplace, oppressor.

/qufb?
//seriously?
 
2013-07-17 08:20:25 AM  
"Hello my name is Pope Francis and I use the is/eius/ei pronouns."
 
2013-07-17 08:20:35 AM  
I want to be called TIm The Enchanter

and i will just call everyone else "you", that is all inclusive.
 
2013-07-17 08:21:22 AM  
For some reason, I can't see that conversation taking place at an Olive Garden.
 
2013-07-17 08:22:26 AM  
I treat everyone who thinks they need language changed to their personal preference the same way I treat my 10 year old niece when she makes up a word and thinks it's cool. I pat her on the head, say, "That's nice, dear" and laugh as I walk away.
 
2013-07-17 08:22:44 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: BowtoMogul: //sometimes the LGBTQUBF community goes too far

Better have otherkin in there someplace, oppressor.

/qufb?
//seriously?


Questioning, Uninterested, Biased and Furry

/I forgot the A
 
2013-07-17 08:24:12 AM  

Jon iz teh kewl: why don't they ahve DRUGS to treat this condition? like WELLBUTRIN or ZOLOFT


The insistence on the binary nature of gender is actually pretty much a western hang up. Perhaps you should take the drugs?
 
2013-07-17 08:24:56 AM  

bunner: [i.qkme.me image 400x600]

And that's all you need to know until she has to take off the Cinderella hair shirt outfit and pay bills.

On the upside, she will happily be offended for you and express great disdain upon your behalf if you're sporting an acceptable social aberration.

Downside, you will eventually offend her, too.


I target those types for instant offense for my personal gratification.
Crunchy, smelly, dirty, freaks.
 
2013-07-17 08:24:57 AM  
i512.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 08:27:53 AM  
But we can still pick on furies right?
 
2013-07-17 08:28:12 AM  
Ha ha. Subby's afraid of someone else's sexuality. Pussy... or do you prefer puzzee?
 
2013-07-17 08:28:32 AM  

Duke_leto_Atredes: But we can still pick on furies right?


At your peril.

Those guys were bad ass in Big Trouble in Little China.....
 
2013-07-17 08:29:03 AM  
I find that people of every sexual orientation answer to gender neutral forms of address. I use "Hey, shiat head!"
 
2013-07-17 08:29:42 AM  
simple solution: do not use pronouns or just use one--"it"

people make things so difficult
 
2013-07-17 08:30:10 AM  
There are a lot of guys in this thread with a lot of latent anger towards themselves and society because what they assumed were hard rules about gender and sexuality have changed. The rules you adhere to don't give you anything tangible. You aren't a "real man" because you played with trucks and roll your eyes at a rack of pink dress shirts. Following cultural norms is all well and good, until you've become so distant to the reasons and historical context that you're enforcing them - as evidenced in this thread - with such enthusiasm and vitriol - for the sake of just making others feel like outsiders.

Some people are different. Learn to deal with it.
 
2013-07-17 08:30:24 AM  

here to help: Ha ha. Subby's afraid of someone else's sexuality. Pussy... or do you prefer puzzee?


Haha, dumb ass is conflating gender and sexuality.

/don't care what you prefer
//not subby
 
DGS [TotalFark]
2013-07-17 08:31:04 AM  

Aulus: OK, maybe it's because I am hetero and in  my mid-sixties, but were I in such a situation and someone I had never met chose to introduce themself that way, I'd get up and walk out.

Look, I do not care how you conduct yourself gender or sexual wise in private, but do not feel the need to slap me in the face with it when we are not interacting intimately and/or in public and especially if we have never met and are unlikely to in the future.

IOW, STFU and act like an adult.


Well, bye.

A person who constantly feels tired or upset about how others direct speech (let alone the likely not-insignificant volume of attitude or insensitive remarks) at him/her/etc, and so the person cuts to the chase and puts the information out there. If that's enough for you to get up and walk, bye. Saved a whole lot of unpleasantness, so go you. RAHRAHRAH.
 
2013-07-17 08:31:34 AM  

WhyteRaven74: The insistence on the binary nature of gender is actually pretty much a western hang up. Perhaps you should take the drugs?


IsThatYourFinalAnswer: You're confusing "butch" and "fem" as actual core psych identities. Gender identity is binary. It may not match the genitals you are born with, but it's one or the other. It's a very core component of the human mind.


trans fight!
Two men enter, only one leaves. But he leaves as a woman. And in the interim, there may or may not have been some other genders involved. In any event it will be quite a tussle. You see, this is why boxing is best left to gays, they just take out their frustrations and beat people to death.
 
2013-07-17 08:33:07 AM  
Greetings my fellow carbon based life form.

Eh', even that's too much of an assumption.
 
2013-07-17 08:33:54 AM  
I forgot the S!
LGBTQUBFAS


/Can't forget about Smizmars
 
2013-07-17 08:34:36 AM  

jayhawk88: maudibjr: Why does this have to be so confusing.  I'm just going to keep calling everyone dude.

"Bro" also works really well.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x243]


"Dude" also works pretty well as a non-gender specific term.

But really, I don't care I'll call you whatever you want.
 
2013-07-17 08:35:15 AM  
gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.netView Full Size


Seriously.  Just tell us whatever the hell you want to be called and move on already.  The only reason this is an issue is because you're MAKING it an issue.  99% of people will politely acquiesce to your wishes out of courtesy if you just ask/correct them politely.

This smacks of AW syndrome.
 
2013-07-17 08:36:06 AM  
The biggest problem with PCness, especially when it comes to cutting-edge PCness like this gender stuff, is that if you get it wrong it's not merely a correction, but a rip-your-face-off crime against Gaia and God (blessed be zer name). You get a new asshole torn because, of COURSE, this stuff is all self-evident and what kind of monster are you for getting it wrong? There are Christian evangelicals who cannot hope to ever reach the sanctimonious and judgmental levels achieved by some in the PC-looney crowd.
 
2013-07-17 08:36:15 AM  

Fromageball: The Muthaship: That reminds me of the lady I went to law school with who dressed her son in girls clothes half the time. She took offense when I told her that was the recipe for making a serial killer.

/he'd be about 23 now
//I hope he started with her

Did the kid want to dress in girl clothes or did the mom just decide to do it?
b/c if the kid wanted it, fine. If the kid didn't want it...wtf?!

Sometimes I feel sorry for men with their restrictive dress choices...especially now in the summer when I can get away with wearing pretty much whatever I want(especially since a lot of workplaces are changing their dress codes...it's like as a woman I can wear whatever the hell I want -within reason) but the men are still stuck in their button-downs and trousers.


We're men. We wrote those policies and we'll damn well deal with it.
 
2013-07-17 08:36:37 AM  
Just call them by their name tag and ask for a new server....  or just keep repeating SYNTAX ERROR SYNTAX ERROR SYNTAX ERROR as you walk out.  You should NEVER feel uncomfortable over a pronoun.
 
2013-07-17 08:37:54 AM  

The Muthaship: here to help: Ha ha. Subby's afraid of someone else's sexuality. Pussy... or do you prefer puzzee?

Haha, dumb ass is conflating gender and sexuality.

/don't care what you prefer
//not subby


Sex = Gender

As in your sex is male.

The term sexuality doesn't always mean f*ck.

Now who's the dumb ass, dumb ass?
 
2013-07-17 08:38:21 AM  
About 10 years ago, we traveled to Arizona because my brother was in a baseball showcase and one of our first nights there we ate at an Olive Garden (I know, I know, let me tell the damn story).  Well our server comes up and asks for our drink order and when they go to get it we all decide we couldn't determine the gender, so we decided we'd check the name on their return and we could base the gender on that.  When they came back with drinks the name tag said "Jaye," not exactly a big help.

You know how we got around this problem?  We just used "Jaye."  Why do you need a pronoun for your server? Just use their name.
 
2013-07-17 08:38:31 AM  

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: IAAl: I am sure that the Fark comments on an article about the gender spectrum is about the last useful place to post this but hey, why not?

Gender is not binary.

Not all people are simply Male or Female.

Regardless of how you define Male or Female, there are people who are both or neither.

If you want to go with the simplistic "is the 23rd set of chromosomes XX or XY?"  You will find that there are people with more than just two, see Aneuploidy.

If you decide to go with sex organs, there are people with both and people with neither.

Needless to say, if you go with characteristics or other physiology you see a wide range of characteristics among people that cross gender norms.

It is simple to categorize gender as binary but gender is no more binary than race or sexual orientation.  Just because you identify strongly with one gender, and perhaps even look the part, does not mean that everyone does or that everyone identifies with either gender.

You're confusing "butch" and "fem" as actual core psych identities.  Gender identity is binary.  It may not match the genitals you are born with, but it's one or the other.  It's a very core component of the human mind.

Yes, you can be a femmy male. (hi Ghastly!)  You can be a butch female.  You can be a male who enjoys stereotypical female activities and norms, and vice versa.  None of this has any bearing on your core gender identity.

I hear it all the time, "Well, I'm male BUT (insert cross-gender activities)".

Trust me, if you IDed as male this week, female next, 70%/30% for two weeks, totally asexual after that....you would be mentally screwed up.  Hell, look at the mental/emotional disorders "simple" transgender people come with!


Kinda seems like you're forcing people into binary gender categories, rather than them adhering to one or the other within certain contexts.  The whole point is that the binary categorization is a poor way of describing the complexity of the human experience, i.e. "I'm a man but I like interior design" is cop-out.

Don't worry, though.  Pretty soon you and others like you will die and the world will continue to move on without you, very likely further and further towards the eradication of the dichotomous gender system.
 
2013-07-17 08:38:52 AM  

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: I always figured trans would be the next "in" thing, but we shot WAY past transgender into this weird world of amorphous constantly shifting nontraditional binary gender declarations.

I guess I'm a closed minded transformer...deep down, you're either male, or female.  may not match with your body, but your core identity is one or the other.

The sad thing, I actually see all this BS reverting trans rights.  We're just barely getting to the point where governments don't require surgery to validate gender.  I see that going down the drain when some of these whackadoos demand recognition of their asexual third-gender spiritual designation on ID.


I agree.  This is going to hurt TG.

I get TG.  Ok I don't "get it" but I understand peopel feel their body is wrong.  They feel their biology puts them in the wrong group.

But this I am special I need a new made up group?  It is farking BS.  Now I can't get that worked up over peopel who want a special BS lable, but I can certainlylaugh my ass off at them.
 
2013-07-17 08:39:28 AM  

here to help: Now who's the dumb ass, dumb ass?


You said sexuality, not sex, so I'm afraid it's still you.
 
2013-07-17 08:39:38 AM  

AngryDragon: Seriously.  Just tell us whatever the hell you want to be called and move on already.  The only reason this is an issue is because you're MAKING it an issue.  99% of people will politely acquiesce to your wishes out of courtesy if you just ask/correct them politely.

This smacks of AW syndrome.


It smacks of AW syndrome that a group of college kids agreed to start doing this during their local interfaith council meetings and NPR ran like a five minute story about "these crazy kids are pushing the social envelope?"
 
2013-07-17 08:39:41 AM  

proteus_b: WhyteRaven74: The insistence on the binary nature of gender is actually pretty much a western hang up. Perhaps you should take the drugs?

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: You're confusing "butch" and "fem" as actual core psych identities. Gender identity is binary. It may not match the genitals you are born with, but it's one or the other. It's a very core component of the human mind.

trans fight!
Two men enter, only one leaves. But he leaves as a woman. And in the interim, there may or may not have been some other genders involved. In any event it will be quite a tussle. You see, this is why boxing is best left to gays, they just take out their frustrations and beat people to death.


Hah, I doubt it. I've enjoyed the few chats me and Whyte have had.  More an "agree to disagree" thing if any.

Now, if you wanna see two trans people fight, ask for the preferred method of "tucking".  THAT triggers trans flamewars.


/Duct Tape or nothing
//Anything else leaves bulges
///transformers love dem slashies
 
2013-07-17 08:39:54 AM  

DrPainMD: FTA: "...a new generation of young people is..."

And people still insist that "Idiocracy" wasn't a documentary.


I don't see the error.  If you implying it should be "...a new generation of young people are...", that would be grammatically incorrect.  You can check by removing the prepositional phrase:  "a new generation is" versus "a new generation are."  The verb is associated with a singular generation.
 
2013-07-17 08:40:13 AM  

AngryDragon: [gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net image 400x300]

Seriously.  Just tell us whatever the hell you want to be called and move on already.  The only reason this is an issue is because you're MAKING it an issue.  99% of people will politely acquiesce to your wishes out of courtesy if you just ask/correct them politely.

This smacks of AW syndrome.


Yeah, when someone addresses you with a smug tone of challenge, they're actually LESS likely to get cooperation. It's like they WANT the confrontation because they can afford it and are willing to buy the cool story how the guy they met, who they just KNEW was a total bigot, had a negative reaction to their aggressiveness. It's a complete obliviousness to their own reality.
 
2013-07-17 08:40:19 AM  
The point I'm attempting to make is I think we need to stop cutting ourselves into smaller and smaller categories.
Why can't we just be people?

Somewhat relevant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZkl1QpkJ00">http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=JZkl1QpkJ00

/Flame on
 
2013-07-17 08:40:23 AM  
The article reminded me about the discussion between sex-positive and sex-negative. Getting rid of gender markers entirely would be a step toward the potential of actual consent. I'm defining sex-positive as recognizing that consent can take place between differing individuals of differing power.
 
2013-07-17 08:40:25 AM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: There are a lot of guys in this thread with a lot of latent anger towards themselves and society


Sure; everyone with a different opinion to you hates themselves and society. That's a healthy open-minded attitude you have there.

/Again: perfectly fine with using whatever people'spreferred pronouns are. If you make up awkward -sounding ones  and expect me to remember and use them OTOH, I will quietly hate you for making my life more difficult for no reason.
 
2013-07-17 08:40:29 AM  

BowtoMogul: Questioning, Uninterested, Biased and Furry


This isn't a response to you but its as good a jumping off place as any. Settle down, children, it's cool story bro time. Are you settled? Good, then let's begin.

At one time I attended a Unitarian Church and the meetings of its Social Justice Committee because I was interested in things like food kitchens, services for local poor, etc. What I discovered was that the Social Justice Committee was almost entirely focused on issues of LGBT acceptance. Various events were discussed intended to raise awareness and promote acceptance of people of alternative lifestyle choices. The problem was that in order to ensure that nobody was silenced and everyone had their say, discussion went on week after week of the minutiae of how to raise awareness without causing offense to some faction within the "alphabet soup" community. After a year of meetings, no event had been organized, no food dispensed, no shelter provided. Just endless talk of valid alternative lifestyles and triggers.

This is now my perception when anyone mentions raising awareness or the LGBT community: endless talk and narcissism while actual human misery is ignored.
 
2013-07-17 08:40:34 AM  

Lor M. Ipsum: If you implying


*facepalm*
 
2013-07-17 08:41:31 AM  
25.media.tumblr.comView Full Size


"Garcon means boy"
 
2013-07-17 08:42:23 AM  
Ketzel Feasley? That's a made up name, right?
 
2013-07-17 08:42:38 AM  

FatPrincess: The article reminded me about the discussion between sex-positive and sex-negative. Getting rid of gender markers entirely would be a step toward the potential of actual consent. I'm defining sex-positive as recognizing that consent can take place between differing individuals of differing power.


A secretary simply cannot have a consensual relationship with a corporate CEO. I've been told that many times by the PC-looney crowd.

For some reason, since 1996, I don't hear it as often.
 
2013-07-17 08:43:13 AM  

PanicMan: "Dude" also works pretty well as a non-gender specific term.

But really, I don't care I'll call you whatever you want.


Not for someone being a gender-free language nazi.

That's ok, "y'all" and "hey, you" work for everybody.
 
2013-07-17 08:43:23 AM  

IAAl: I am sure that the Fark comments on an article about the gender spectrum is about the last useful place to post this but hey, why not?

Gender is not binary.

Not all people are simply Male or Female.

Regardless of how you define Male or Female, there are people who are both or neither.

If you want to go with the simplistic "is the 23rd set of chromosomes XX or XY?"  You will find that there are people with more than just two, see Aneuploidy.

If you decide to go with sex organs, there are people with both and people with neither.

Needless to say, if you go with characteristics or other physiology you see a wide range of characteristics among people that cross gender norms.

It is simple to categorize gender as binary but gender is no more binary than race or sexual orientation.  Just because you identify strongly with one gender, and perhaps even look the part, does not mean that everyone does or that everyone identifies with either gender.



THIS.
 
2013-07-17 08:43:33 AM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 08:43:42 AM  

liam76: But this I am special I need a new made up group? It is farking BS.


I see it the other way. It seems like they're saying they aren't special, and the made up group is essentially a non-identity in terms of gender.
 
2013-07-17 08:44:31 AM  
proteus_b:

trans fight!
Two men enter, only one leaves. But he leaves as a woman. And in the interim, there may or may not have been some other genders involved. In any event it will be quite a tussle. You see, this is why boxing is best left to gays, they just take out their frustrations and beat people to death.


image.spreadshirt.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 08:44:42 AM  

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: Since I mentioned questions, here's the answers to the most common questions:

Since I was little.
The bathroom my "brain" gender identifies with.
It stops working reliably on hormones.
Very expensive, and most insurance doesn't cover it.
It's not contagious.
No I can't have kids.

And, the biggest question of all....

Do you normally ask people about their genitals, and major surgeries they may have had?


Genitals and medical history are important if I'm trying to figure out whether or not to attemp initiating courtship rituals. *wink*

(You have genitals, and you're not a walking bag of CancerAIDS.)
 
2013-07-17 08:44:49 AM  

Fromageball: Sometimes I feel sorry for men with their restrictive dress choices...especially now in the summer when I can get away with wearing pretty much whatever I want(especially since a lot of workplaces are changing their dress codes...it's like as a woman I can wear whatever the hell I want -within reason) but the men are still stuck in their button-downs and trousers.


You say that like there's something wrong with it.
 
2013-07-17 08:46:28 AM  

Gunther: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: There are a lot of guys in this thread with a lot of latent anger towards themselves and society

Sure; everyone with a different opinion to you hates themselves and society. That's a healthy open-minded attitude you have there.

/Again: perfectly fine with using whatever people'spreferred pronouns are. If you make up awkward -sounding ones  and expect me to remember and use them OTOH, I will quietly hate you for making my life more difficult for no reason.


Well hating that someone wants to be called something different and passive aggressively agreeing to their face completely proves that you have no latent issues regarding it and yourself. Thanks for proving me wrong.
 
2013-07-17 08:47:13 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: BowtoMogul: Questioning, Uninterested, Biased and Furry

This isn't a response to you but its as good a jumping off place as any. Settle down, children, it's cool story bro time. Are you settled? Good, then let's begin.

At one time I attended a Unitarian Church and the meetings of its Social Justice Committee because I was interested in things like food kitchens, services for local poor, etc. What I discovered was that the Social Justice Committee was almost entirely focused on issues of LGBT acceptance. Various events were discussed intended to raise awareness and promote acceptance of people of alternative lifestyle choices. The problem was that in order to ensure that nobody was silenced and everyone had their say, discussion went on week after week of the minutiae of how to raise awareness without causing offense to some faction within the "alphabet soup" community. After a year of meetings, no event had been organized, no food dispensed, no shelter provided. Just endless talk of valid alternative lifestyles and triggers.

This is now my perception when anyone mentions raising awareness or the LGBT community: endless talk and narcissism while actual human misery is ignored.


That's not a problem unique to the LGBT community. It's a problem of a flat organizational ethos. The touchy-feely crowd wants to be inclusive, even when their organization has leadership positions. You don't want to be a dictator, but you want to come up with the ideas and present options to the group. If they reject all of them, you may have a problem. But trying to get 20 people to all submit ideas and then come to a consensus on one will rarely overcome inertia. Between that and over-ambitious near-term goals, that's how philanthropic organizations die.
 
2013-07-17 08:48:07 AM  

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: Now, if you wanna see two trans people fight, ask for the preferred method of "tucking". THAT triggers trans flamewars.


/Duct Tape or nothing


Whaaaaa no

That doesn't pull off of skin easily. You must suffer for your art.
 
2013-07-17 08:48:28 AM  
I have my own, self-invented dialect of the English language complete with alternate verb tenses.
I become offended and extremely angry when people fail to use or understand it. I'm a person, too!
 
2013-07-17 08:49:29 AM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Well hating that someone wants to be called something different and passive aggressively agreeing to their face completely proves that you have no latent issues regarding it and yourself. Thanks for proving me wrong.


As much as I wish things worked this way, telling people to their face that you think they are thinking and behaving stupidly is considered rude rather than helpful - the expected action is to politely treat them seriously and then shake your head about it later.
 
2013-07-17 08:49:33 AM  
And I think people are missing the point. This is more than likely being done to shove the issue to the front of the conversation. A friend of mine has been going through a REAL hard time with this exact scenario. I call her she because that's how I met her. Born a female but very androgynous and before anyone starts saying "lesbo AW! Whargharble!!1" there are severe chemical and physical differences with her. For example she could grow a beard as a teen. Imagine how f*cking terrible and confusing that would have been. She held all that gender crap in and just played the part of girl/tomboy. Dated guys and chicks but mostly just wasn't interested in sex. She hid it from most of her friends even though we are all supposedly open minded and ultra progressive people. Well a few years back she was completely breaking down because of the stress of this and started talking to doctors (who confirmed the physical gender problems) and her friends. Well apparently a lot of people were complete assholes to her about it. It was shocking considering the community. Very pro equal rights across the board but for some reason just the thought of a trans gender made them all wonky. Very disappointing. I guess I am one of the few she's been able to talk to about it and I find that heartbreaking.

So no. It's not easy for these people and this is obviously a way for them let people know who and what they are and make people talk about it instead of just squirming in their seats or waiting until they leave to talk behind their backs.

Put yourselves in their shoes. How would you feel?
 
2013-07-17 08:49:38 AM  
"WE WARNED YOU ABOUT THIS SHIAT!"

-Religion

I will here to fore only respond to "F*cker".
 
2013-07-17 08:49:43 AM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: There are a lot of guys in this thread with a lot of latent anger towards themselves and society because what they assumed were hard rules about gender and sexuality have changed. The rules you adhere to don't give you anything tangible. You aren't a "real man" because you played with trucks and roll your eyes at a rack of pink dress shirts. Following cultural norms is all well and good, until you've become so distant to the reasons and historical context that you're enforcing them - as evidenced in this thread - with such enthusiasm and vitriol - for the sake of just making others feel like outsiders.

Some people are different. Learn to deal with it.


Dear Wile E. Coyote (Super Genius),

You've done a masterful job of reading the minds of all of the posters so far who don't with your point of view. However, what about those of us who just can't be bothered to give a shiat about people who feel the need to flaunt convention because it makes them feel better. I honestly just don't give a shiat enough to change what has worked for the last 2000yrs including the previous span of my lifetime.

So in closing, anyone can feel free to ask to be called what they want, but i'm just not interested enough to comply with that request. If this is upsetting to them or you in any way, please feel free to take it up management.
 
2013-07-17 08:49:44 AM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Well hating that someone wants to be called something different and passive aggressively agreeing to their face completely proves that you have no latent issues regarding it and yourself. Thanks for proving me wrong.


Yes, the only reason to be annoyed by Tumblr Social Justice Warriors is that we are assiduously avoiding recognition of our own LGBTAGSFQWNZ nature.
 
2013-07-17 08:49:45 AM  
".....a new generation of young people ....."

The same kind of "generation of young people" that were raised by  douchebag helicopter parents, most likely.

Of all the politically correct bullsh*t words out there, "waitron" has to be one of the bullshiattiest. It doesn't erase gender identity so much as a person's humanity. Like being a "waitron" means that you're just some sort of serving robot.

us.123rf.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 08:51:41 AM  

The Muthaship: here to help: Now who's the dumb ass, dumb ass?

You said sexuality, not sex, so I'm afraid it's still you.


You really aren't all that good at English are you?
 
2013-07-17 08:51:41 AM  

ox45tallboy: Why don't dudes get a couch?


Because eventually someone will piss / shiat on it.
 
2013-07-17 08:52:18 AM  

ox45tallboy: Can anyone translate these?

[nyulocal.com image 750x350]

I get: Chick, Dude, Larry Craig In A Skirt, Guy With A Boner, Rockette, Disabled Person, and Disabled Person Being Arrested.


That last one stands for Ludacris because he's obviously rolling out.
 
2013-07-17 08:53:34 AM  

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.comView Full Size

Social norms change.  You are powerless to stop it.

 
2013-07-17 08:53:37 AM  
Really? 230+ posts and I'm the weeners?

2.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 08:53:48 AM  
Show me your drivers license.
Whatever it says, that I'll call you.

If you cannot convince the DWV, then you cannot convince me.
 
2013-07-17 08:53:56 AM  

dv-ous: Genitals and medical history are important if I'm trying to figure out whether or not to attemp initiating courtship rituals. *wink*

(You have genitals, and you're not a walking bag of CancerAIDS.)


I think I just got complimented somehow.  Fark is straaange.

I save myself the whole courtship thing, I don't have sex. There's very few people out there who can put up with the myriad other issues trans people have.  Add in the "transformerchasers", and our dating pool gets mighty shallow.

I'm putting that on my mirror now, though.  "You are not a bag of walking CancerAIDS".  It's motivational.
 
2013-07-17 08:54:04 AM  

bbcard1: I still don't know why "herm" hasn't caught on.


I know 2 guys named Herm.
 
2013-07-17 08:54:05 AM  

IAAl: It is simple to categorize gender as binary but gender is no more binary than race or sexual orientation


No but the language is, and to expect your coworkers, or peopel youhave random encounters with to take the time to learn your recently made up words then apply them to you is dick in the toaster stupid.
 
2013-07-17 08:54:08 AM  
My wife is friends with a woman who's parents named her Gazel.  She gets really upset when people call her Gazelle cause THAT'S AN ANIMAL I AM NOT AN ANIMAL IM A PERSON.  Sorry your parents named you something that looks a hell of a lot like a word for an animal.  Not super applicable but I think its funny.

Anyway, if you look and dress like a dude I'm calling you he, and if you look and dress like a girl I'm calling you she.  Its not my job to keep straight how you THINK about yourself, especially if I have no idea who you are.  If you're a woman who's dressed like a man, cool, I'm happy to take the outward indication that you want to be considered a dude and run with it, bro.  Same thing if you're a guy wearing a dress and makeup.  You wanna go out in drag that's your thing and I'm happy to acknowledge it ma'am.
 
2013-07-17 08:54:13 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: Really? 230+ posts and I'm the weeners?

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 308x320]


Maybe you're just old.
 
2013-07-17 08:54:49 AM  
I just refer to everyone as "consumer." Well, hello consumer, yes, hello consumer. Bop bop bee da bop Bebop Cola, yeah.

25.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 08:54:56 AM  

here to help: The Muthaship: here to help: Now who's the dumb ass, dumb ass?

You said sexuality, not sex, so I'm afraid it's still you.

You really aren't all that good at English are you?


Pretty decent, not perfect.

No one asks for your sexuality when what they want to know is your gender.
 
2013-07-17 08:55:12 AM  

Bontesla: Jim_Callahan: While I wasn't raised in a barn, so I can in public basically call anyone whatever they ask to be called by with a straight face, I have to admit that every time someone makes a big deal out of being identified by their obvious biological gender (or getting annoyed when you mess it up, in the case of androgynous people) my actual unspoken reaction is basically "Oh my god who the hell cares".

If shiat like this actually catches on (probably won't) I'll learn it because etiquette is a life skill, but don't expect me to use it outside of formal venues.  PC crap is and always has been an artificial waste of time that conceals an underlying problem instead of or even at the expense of actually fixing it.

You don't care because you don't struggle with it. You take it for granted.

I know of an incredibly brave person who was born a man but just announced their desire to begin the process of gender reassignment. 56 years of being referred to as the wrong gender can wear a person down.

We tend to think of something as less important if it's not something we struggle with.


encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.comView Full Size


No one gives a crap about the things I struggle with or the challenges in my life. And I don't expect them to.
 
2013-07-17 08:55:21 AM  

Ricardo Klement: That's not a problem unique to the LGBT community. It's a problem of a flat organizational ethos. The touchy-feely crowd wants to be inclusive, even when their organization has leadership positions. You don't want to be a dictator, but you want to come up with the ideas and present options to the group. If they reject all of them, you may have a problem. But trying to get 20 people to all submit ideas and then come to a consensus on one will rarely overcome inertia. Between that and over-ambitious near-term goals, that's how philanthropic organizations die.


When I said minutiae, I meant it. I had never seen any committee quibble over trivialities as target date after target date passed. It didn't help that over half of the committee was either some flavor of gay or transgender. It was very obviously all about them. Social justice wasn't about making sure that hungry people got a hot meal, it was about how someone gave them a weird look at the grocery store the previous week.

What we're discussing here is narcissism.
 
2013-07-17 08:55:29 AM  

Public Savant: Show me your drivers license.
Whatever it says, that I'll call you.

If you cannot convince the DWV, then you cannot convince me.


Yes, because the government has an excellent track record with being current on human rights.
 
2013-07-17 08:56:01 AM  

Super_pope: Its not my job to keep straight how you THINK about yourself, especially if I have no idea who you are.


That's kind of the whole point of them telling you.
 
2013-07-17 08:56:26 AM  
Thank goodness George Zimmerman is not amongst this crowd, or we'd not only be arguing if he was white or hispanic, but also if he was a woman/man/whatever. Think of the uproar THAT would cause.

/I'd like to see that thread.
 
2013-07-17 08:57:16 AM  

The Muthaship: No one asks for your sexuality when what they want to know is your gender.


You've got nothing so you are attempting a semantics troll... a poor one at that.
 
2013-07-17 08:57:24 AM  

WhippingBoy: No one gives a crap about the things I struggle with or the challenges in my life. And I don't expect them to.


Those who have easier struggles should recognize it, though.


as in: I ain't got nothing but first world problems
 
2013-07-17 08:57:26 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: Really? 230+ posts and I'm the weeners?


2.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size

I could have sworn you were the boobies.
 
DGS [TotalFark]
2013-07-17 08:57:30 AM  

here to help: And I think people are missing the point. This is more than likely being done to shove the issue to the front of the conversation. A friend of mine has been going through a REAL hard time with this exact scenario. I call her she because that's how I met her. Born a female but very androgynous and before anyone starts saying "lesbo AW! Whargharble!!1" there are severe chemical and physical differences with her. For example she could grow a beard as a teen. Imagine how f*cking terrible and confusing that would have been. She held all that gender crap in and just played the part of girl/tomboy. Dated guys and chicks but mostly just wasn't interested in sex. She hid it from most of her friends even though we are all supposedly open minded and ultra progressive people. Well a few years back she was completely breaking down because of the stress of this and started talking to doctors (who confirmed the physical gender problems) and her friends. Well apparently a lot of people were complete assholes to her about it. It was shocking considering the community. Very pro equal rights across the board but for some reason just the thought of a trans gender made them all wonky. Very disappointing. I guess I am one of the few she's been able to talk to about it and I find that heartbreaking.

So no. It's not easy for these people and this is obviously a way for them let people know who and what they are and make people talk about it instead of just squirming in their seats or waiting until they leave to talk behind their backs.

Put yourselves in their shoes. How would you feel?


This. A few times over, this.
 
2013-07-17 08:58:19 AM  

WhyteRaven74: Jon iz teh kewl: why don't they ahve DRUGS to treat this condition? like WELLBUTRIN or ZOLOFT

The insistence on the binary nature of gender is actually pretty much a western hang up. Perhaps you should take the drugs?


male/female/space mutant?
 
2013-07-17 08:58:30 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Didn't we have this thread last week?  If you're gender confused pick the masculine or feminine, whichever you prefer, and try to stick with it. The overwhelming majority of people aren't going to be willing to learn new gender-neutral pronouns, so unless you fancy being called an 'it' just figure out which one you're closest to and run with that.


English already has a gender-neutral pronoun; "their/they". It's primarily used as a plural these days, but for most of English history it was a singular as well. Might seem confusing to have a noun-form that can be both plural and singular, specific and general, but when you find yourself thinking that just remember every romance language in existence does the same thing with nearly every noun they have, and some verb-forms too. English speakers get off pretty easy.
 
2013-07-17 08:58:54 AM  
undiscoveredcountryproject.comView Full Size


THERE ARE 2 GENDERS!!!
 
2013-07-17 08:59:03 AM  

jaybeezey: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: There are a lot of guys in this thread with a lot of latent anger towards themselves and society because what they assumed were hard rules about gender and sexuality have changed. The rules you adhere to don't give you anything tangible. You aren't a "real man" because you played with trucks and roll your eyes at a rack of pink dress shirts. Following cultural norms is all well and good, until you've become so distant to the reasons and historical context that you're enforcing them - as evidenced in this thread - with such enthusiasm and vitriol - for the sake of just making others feel like outsiders.

Some people are different. Learn to deal with it.

Dear Wile E. Coyote (Super Genius),

You've done a masterful job of reading the minds of all of the posters so far who don't with your point of view. However, what about those of us who just can't be bothered to give a shiat about people who feel the need to flaunt convention because it makes them feel better. I honestly just don't give a shiat enough to change what has worked for the last 2000yrs including the previous span of my lifetime.

So in closing, anyone can feel free to ask to be called what they want, but i'm just not interested enough to comply with that request. If this is upsetting to them or you in any way, please feel free to take it up management.


Would you like to write any further persuasive, emotional essays to prove to me, the world, and yourself about just how little you care about the issue? I'm not sure it was clear, since it appears you care very deeply about how other people behave.
 
2013-07-17 09:00:08 AM  
staplermofo: "Ungendered pronouns would be great."

Like they/them/theirs ?
Or do we need new ones?

I generally go out of my way to not be a dick, and to accommodate other people.  But there is a line at which, no, I am not willing to re-wire myself to use newly-invented words to help people who are different feel not-different.  Particularly not to the point that the repetition of the preferences of the majority will come across like mocking.

I mean, do we invent a word for "not-disabled", that the bulk of us can use to describe ourselves as such, so that disabled people don't feel categorized by having to specify possible additional preferences/needs?  "Hi, I'm Bob and I'm cis-abled; I don't need a ramp or handicapped stall or items to be placed at wheelchair-accessible heights."

To me, the "cis-gender" "here's my pronouns preference" shiat sounds just as incredibly cruel.
 
2013-07-17 09:00:24 AM  

TV's Vinnie: Of all the politically correct bullsh*t words out there, "waitron" has to be one of the bullshiattiest.


Chill, I think subby made up waitron, in jest of the article...
 
2013-07-17 09:01:35 AM  

here to help: The Muthaship: No one asks for your sexuality when what they want to know is your gender.

You've got nothing so you are attempting a semantics troll... a poor one at that.


It's okay to admit you screwed up.  It might even feel good.
 
2013-07-17 09:02:03 AM  

Heron: TuteTibiImperes: Didn't we have this thread last week?  If you're gender confused pick the masculine or feminine, whichever you prefer, and try to stick with it. The overwhelming majority of people aren't going to be willing to learn new gender-neutral pronouns, so unless you fancy being called an 'it' just figure out which one you're closest to and run with that.

English already has a gender-neutral pronoun; "their/they". It's primarily used as a plural these days, but for most of English history it was a singular as well. Might seem confusing to have a noun-form that can be both plural and singular, specific and general, but when you find yourself thinking that just remember every romance language in existence does the same thing with nearly every noun they have, and some verb-forms too. English speakers get off pretty easy.


I've been using they/their as singular for years. Rarely do people call me on it, and usually they are much older traditionalist types. I originally started to strip out him/her he/she in my writing, because alternating genders by paragraph got annoying. The fact it fits transgender folks was just a happy coincidence.

I wish English had more gender neutral language, I would use it all the time.
 
2013-07-17 09:03:18 AM  

Jim_Callahan: While I wasn't raised in a barn, so I can in public basically call anyone whatever they ask to be called by with a straight face, I have to admit that every time someone makes a big deal out of being identified by their obvious biological gender (or getting annoyed when you mess it up, in the case of androgynous people) my actual unspoken reaction is basically "Oh my god who the hell cares".

If shiat like this actually catches on (probably won't) I'll learn it because etiquette is a life skill, but don't expect me to use it outside of formal venues.  PC crap is and always has been an artificial waste of time that conceals an underlying problem instead of or even at the expense of actually fixing it.


I worked at a restaurant with a "person" for a very brief time...

(Names changed)

Given Name at time of birth by his partents: Steve
Born with Male Parts

Felt he was trans, decided to go by "Jennifer"

Some days this person was "Steve," others "Jennifer," and others, some other state of being with a gender neutral name like "Pat" or "Nicky."

So Tuesday we would work with Steve, and Thursday we would work with Jennifer.  These identities had totally different attitudes, personalities, food preferences, body language and posture, vocal pitch was different...

He made things unnecessarily difficult very quickly, and drama that never existed in the restaurant was suddenly there.  He requested to have the name on the computer changed whenever he was either "Pat/Nicky" or "Jennifer"...he would get VERY upset when he was "Jennifer" and it was paycheck day and the paycheck was written out to "Steve."

This person was not sexually confused, going through a transition or any other issue...unquestionably homey was mentally ill.

He lasted about 3 months.  A semi-regular came in and said hello to "Steve" and "Jennifer" freaked the fark out on him.  He was fired on the spot.
 
2013-07-17 09:03:23 AM  
I haven't seen a post yet bring up the obvious.
When you're speaking to a person or around a person about them, you are very rarely using she/he/her/him/hers/his, you use, you or their name. So all this panty twisting about ze zim zer... it most likely a moot point.
 
2013-07-17 09:04:21 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: Ricardo Klement: That's not a problem unique to the LGBT community. It's a problem of a flat organizational ethos. The touchy-feely crowd wants to be inclusive, even when their organization has leadership positions. You don't want to be a dictator, but you want to come up with the ideas and present options to the group. If they reject all of them, you may have a problem. But trying to get 20 people to all submit ideas and then come to a consensus on one will rarely overcome inertia. Between that and over-ambitious near-term goals, that's how philanthropic organizations die.

When I said minutiae, I meant it. I had never seen any committee quibble over trivialities as target date after target date passed. It didn't help that over half of the committee was either some flavor of gay or transgender. It was very obviously all about them. Social justice wasn't about making sure that hungry people got a hot meal, it was about how someone gave them a weird look at the grocery store the previous week.

What we're discussing here is narcissism.


I follow you.

I was briefly in an organization that had a great idea. It was expensive, but it was a good idea. They spent the time arguing over minutia while I, in my divine innocence, would point out they literally had no money, and that maybe they should start with fund-raisers rather than trying to pull off an idea that would cost four-figures to implement.

Two years later, they still hadn't done it, and I don't know if they even exist anymore.

But narcissism is also an unsolvable problem.
 
2013-07-17 09:05:00 AM  
Obviously seriously confused people, i feel sorry for them. Makes you wonder WTF happened during their prenatal development that caused this affliction. Like Autism, we may never know.
 
xcv
2013-07-17 09:06:44 AM  
media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 09:08:53 AM  

ringersol: staplermofo: "Ungendered pronouns would be great."

Like they/them/theirs ?
Or do we need new ones?

I generally go out of my way to not be a dick, and to accommodate other people.  But there is a line at which, no, I am not willing to re-wire myself to use newly-invented words to help people who are different feel not-different.  Particularly not to the point that the repetition of the preferences of the majority will come across like mocking.

I mean, do we invent a word for "not-disabled", that the bulk of us can use to describe ourselves as such, so that disabled people don't feel categorized by having to specify possible additional preferences/needs?  "Hi, I'm Bob and I'm cis-abled; I don't need a ramp or handicapped stall or items to be placed at wheelchair-accessible heights."

To me, the "cis-gender" "here's my pronouns preference" shiat sounds just as incredibly cruel.


I think it's interesting how we have gendered terms for some things and not others.  There are still waiters and waitresses, but aviator and aviatrix have been replaced by pilot.  People do use the term server, but not at the rate they use pilot.  Same with barman and barmaid becoming the unified bartender.

I hesitate to say that steward and stewardess becoming flight attendant is a gender neutralization.  It could also just be title inflation.
 
2013-07-17 09:09:12 AM  
I basically live and work in one of the more liberal parts of Massachusetts so yeah, pretty progressive relative to the country and I have never heard anyone talk like that. It must be mostly relegated to campuses and in activist groups that are formed to further these issues, nttiawwt. But I  think NPR is making more out of it than it is.
 
2013-07-17 09:09:17 AM  

RobSeace: We encountered high school students who said, I want you to call me Tractor and use pronouns like zee, zim and zer.

No... If you're not down with he/him/his or she/her/hers, you're getting singular they/them/theirs... You don't get to invent new words and unilaterally add them to the language and force everyone else to use them...


I'm glad someone said this. I like to think of myself as progressive, and I support the LGBT community in their quest for equal rights. I also understand that the way our world has operated there needs to be changes to the way we do certain things.

That being said, as you've already pointed out, our language already has Gender Neutral Pronouns. They/Them/Theirs are used for both plural (including mixed gender) and when Gender is unknown. This is one area that changes don't need to be made to the language.

From time to time the mold simply won't fit, and it needs to be broken and recreated. I get that and I endorse that, but I do not support breaking the mold simply for the sake of breaking it. Work within the system when it applies, go outside when you must. No only it is easier on you, but it's easier to get less supportive people to accept as well. After all the goal is acceptance, not special privileges.
 
2013-07-17 09:10:02 AM  
And to all those who are saying "I don't care so don't bother me with this." that is what is so frustrating for these people. It is a complex issue and otherwise well meaning people refuse to even think about it. These folks are isolated and marginalized. These kids are trying to carve out their spot in society and are sick of being swept aside. Race relations didn't get better until people started talking about the issues and what it was like to be a minority. To truly be able to accept someone as they are there has to be a certain level of understanding and empathy. We all know what the average middle class straight white dude is thinking or feeling because we get beat over the head with it day in and day out. Take a few minutes to think about what these people are going through and what it must be like to constantly be shrugged of as a weirdo or AW.

Don't be so selfish.
 
2013-07-17 09:10:17 AM  

xcv: [media.tumblr.com image 467x644]


Eventually, we'll just list everyone.
 
2013-07-17 09:10:56 AM  

Bontesla: The goal isn't to create a new identity but to raise awareness.


Trust me, we're aware.
 
2013-07-17 09:11:25 AM  

Wolf892: I just figured out what to call these people.

He/him = penis
She/her = vagina

But everyone has titties, so that's what we call them

"Excuse me, titty told me that the bill was going to be under fifty bucks, but when titty brought me the bill it was nearly one hundred. I want you to discount the three lobsters because titty told me that they were half price and now you're charging me full price for them.

See? Titty, it just works.


Sure, just insult the women who have had double mastectomies. You heartless bastard.
 
2013-07-17 09:11:44 AM  

The Muthaship: It's okay to admit you screwed up. It might even feel good.


I did not and I will not.

*FART*

Now THAT felt good.

*fartfartfart*
 
2013-07-17 09:11:50 AM  

here to help: on't be so selfish.


i116.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 09:13:11 AM  

here to help: And to all those who are saying "I don't care so don't bother me with this." that is what is so frustrating for these people. It is a complex issue and otherwise well meaning people refuse to even think about it. These folks are isolated and marginalized. These kids are trying to carve out their spot in society and are sick of being swept aside. Race relations didn't get better until people started talking about the issues and what it was like to be a minority. To truly be able to accept someone as they are there has to be a certain level of understanding and empathy. We all know what the average middle class straight white dude is thinking or feeling because we get beat over the head with it day in and day out. Take a few minutes to think about what these people are going through and what it must be like to constantly be shrugged of as a weirdo or AW.

Don't be so selfish.


BUT I DON'T CARE!  I care so little that I will write 30 posts in this thread detailing how much I don't care.  I care so little that I will respond to anyone criticizing my position of not caring!!  That's indicative of how little I care about this!!
 
2013-07-17 09:13:15 AM  
FTFA - We encountered high school students who said, I want you to call me Tractor and use pronouns like zee, zim and zer. And, in fact, I reject the gender binary as an oppressive move by the dominant culture.

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2013-07-17 09:13:27 AM  

ph0rk: here to help: on't be so selfish.

[i116.photobucket.com image 112x150]


Damn I'm sexy.
 
2013-07-17 09:13:55 AM  
I felt the urge to punch each person who contributed to this article.

Is that wrong of me...or a perfectly rational response to complete farking bullshiat?
 
2013-07-17 09:14:08 AM  
this reminds of a thread i was reading on total fark yesterday where this parent was gushing how he and his wife were such progressive parents because their snowflakes had a black friend and a chinese friend. And that his kids were outspoken on the topic of gay marriage. at agges 7 and 12. at 7 and 12 kids should be playing games, walking in the park, and not having parents forcing adult themes on to theme. these kids are being raised into the same type of aws in the story.

i do not go around saying "hi i am theflatline, i am a heterosexual male, and i was born this way."

tell me your name and i will call you that.
 
2013-07-17 09:16:12 AM  
These people are farked when it comes to romance languages - every word is masculine or feminine.

ringersol: staplermofo: "Ungendered pronouns would be great."

Like they/them/theirs ?
Or do we need new ones?

I generally go out of my way to not be a dick, and to accommodate other people.  But there is a line at which, no, I am not willing to re-wire myself to use newly-invented words to help people who are different feel not-different.  Particularly not to the point that the repetition of the preferences of the majority will come across like mocking.

I mean, do we invent a word for "not-disabled", that the bulk of us can use to describe ourselves as such, so that disabled people don't feel categorized by having to specify possible additional preferences/needs?  "Hi, I'm Bob and I'm cis-abled; I don't need a ramp or handicapped stall or items to be placed at wheelchair-accessible heights."

To me, the "cis-gender" "here's my pronouns preference" shiat sounds just as incredibly cruel.


Your position basically equates people who don't fall into the gender binary as having a disability.  I think that may be one of the fundamental points of argument.  Having come to terms with their different-ness, they want to change the English language & social customs to normalize their condition in the eyes of the general public, or at least create the perception that gender is fluid & not binary.

I pity them for this, since has a snowball's chance in hell of happening.
 
2013-07-17 09:17:08 AM  

Headso: I basically live and work in one of the more liberal parts of Massachusetts so yeah, pretty progressive relative to the country and I have never heard anyone talk like that. It must be mostly relegated to campuses and in activist groups that are formed to further these issues, nttiawwt. But I  think NPR is making more out of it than it is.


I think you're right about that, and pretty obviously so. I know a lot of young people and college students, and it's really a bit of a stretch at this point to be heralding some new revolution in thought among the "young generation".

In other words, this article is about 85% bullsh*t.
 
2013-07-17 09:17:47 AM  

Rapmaster2000: BUT I DON'T CARE! I care so little that I will write 30 posts in this thread detailing how much I don't care. I care so little that I will respond to anyone criticizing my position of not caring!! That's indicative of how little I care about this!!


Zactly. In the time it took for them to do all that not caring they could have taking the time to let the ideas bounce around their little noodles for a while. They don't WANT to care. They don't want to explore the issue because it obviously scares them or they do indeed have negative attitudes but don't want to be labeled bigots so they act aloof.

Sad really.
 
2013-07-17 09:18:01 AM  

FraggleStickCar: Don't worry, though. Pretty soon you and others like you will die and the world will continue to move on without you, very likely further and further towards the eradication of the dichotomous gender system


That would be great.  Just not for the reasons you think.

If the world has enough time for what are now issues for entitled, spolied, self centered, whiny coonts who think their time is more valuable than those around them, then hopefully we will have fixed real problems.
 
2013-07-17 09:18:30 AM  

ox45tallboy: staplermofo: Ungendered pronouns would be great.  Un-gendering bathrooms would be nice too.  If women peep on men or men hog the couch, it's a small price to pay.  I would hog the shiat out of that couch.

Why don't dudes get a couch? What the hell are women doing in the can that necessitates a couch? I want a couch to chill on in the can. I would totally call the restaurant's number on my cell and ask for my waiter and then tell him bring me another beer to the couch in the men's room. Bonus points if it's a waitress. More bonus points if she does it. Negative points if she changes gender first.


It's for breastfeeding and also because ladies room lines are longer
 
2013-07-17 09:19:05 AM  

ox45tallboy: [24.media.tumblr.com image 500x592]


I'm going with Cheese.
 
2013-07-17 09:19:37 AM  

IAAl: It is simple to categorize gender as binary but gender is no more binary than race or sexual orientation. Just because you identify strongly with one gender, and perhaps even look the part, does not mean that everyone does or that everyone identifies with either gender.


And if we're intimate enough that I know about your gender identity issues, then I will try to accommodate them to the best of my ability. If I've just met you though, you're lucky if I remember your name. I'm unlikely to remember a different set of pronouns for you... and especially when this seems to be a "I'll choose my own set of pronouns!" type of thing so that I'll need to remember a separate set of pronouns for each and every person. Come up with some standard and it may get adopted as time goes on, but until then, expecting people to remember the new words you've decided to try and force on everyone is simply narcissistic. All you'll do is convince people to stick the the 3rd person they/their/theirs instead of having to wade through that mine field.
 
2013-07-17 09:21:24 AM  

Lexx: These people are farked when it comes to romance languages - every word is masculine or feminine.


I'm guessing you've never taken a stab at THE romance language...