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(CNN)   Good news everyone, I've discovered a method of transporting people from LA to NY in 45 minutes   (cnn.com) divider line 178
    More: Followup, Elon Musk, Los Angeles, magnetic levitation, energy usage, Rand Corporation  
•       •       •

8375 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 Jul 2013 at 8:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



178 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-16 11:03:11 PM

rogue49: Need to figure out how to cancel Inertia


No need to cancel it...just capture it with regenerative braking.
 
2013-07-16 11:03:44 PM
This is one of those "advanced society" projects that we can't really pull off.

Trains, planes, and automobiles have their sophistication in the vehicle. The tracks or paths are low tech. Maglev and huge vacuum chambers are much more sophisticated than rail or roads.

Now, semi-ballistic missiles...
 
2013-07-16 11:04:17 PM

Hollie Maea: I wouldn't ride on the inevitable Chinese version though.


I don't know the Chinese has HAVE experience with a maglev type system.

Take a look...that's far better than anything the USA has. This exists.and isn't a pipe dream.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc81Wej6XWI

Heck...FRANCE has far better than anything the USA has for ground transport. We suck and are just rather angry now about our past achievements.
 
2013-07-16 11:04:37 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: Hollie Maea: /Thankee for TF

Don't thank me. I just destroyed your productivity for the next 30 days. Muahahahaha!!


Yeah, I'm going to have to watch my ass.  It's bad enough as it is...as stupid as I'm sure this sounds, I really am serious about trying to replace my day job with a "Build the Portland Hyperloop" scheme.
 
2013-07-16 11:05:44 PM

Morpher59: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x298]
Would be interested in taking a ride.


thank you
 
2013-07-16 11:08:26 PM
Came for Friday reference, leaving satisfied.

Also would have accepted an L. Neil Smith reference.
 
2013-07-16 11:10:11 PM

optikeye: Hollie Maea: I wouldn't ride on the inevitable Chinese version though.

I don't know the Chinese has HAVE experience with a maglev type system.

Take a look...that's far better than anything the USA has. This exists.and isn't a pipe dream.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc81Wej6XWI

Heck...FRANCE has far better than anything the USA has for ground transport. We suck and are just rather angry now about our past achievements.


Oh yeah, I'm a big fan of the Chinese high speed rail system and especially their maglev.  The biggest problem with China is that any time you have a big project you can pretty much flip a coin as to whether or not you'll get a corrupt subcontractor.  There was a big scandal a few months ago in which a major concrete supplier was giving concrete made with sea sand for major skyscraper projects...
 
2013-07-16 11:11:00 PM

Hollie Maea: I really am serious about trying to replace my day job with a "Build the Portland Hyperloop" scheme.


Good luck!

I have another question... and this one is ridiculous... but I cant stop thinking about it.

My train pod thing is traveling in the tube at full passenger capacity... and full speed... out in the middle of the desert. One of those worm things from Tremors comes up and breaks a section of the tube bending it up at a 45 degree angle just as we reach it. Exiting the tube at 4000mph... how far will we travel... and how long will it take to hit the ground (assuming it's roughly level for that distance).
 
2013-07-16 11:13:32 PM

kimwim: THEY'RE MADE OUT OF MEAT


I remember reading that somewhere a very long time ago, just can't remember where.
 
2013-07-16 11:14:43 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
 
2013-07-16 11:14:47 PM

Hollie Maea: rogue49: Need to figure out how to cancel Inertia

No need to cancel it...just capture it with regenerative braking.


Protip: use magnets for faster capturing.
 
2013-07-16 11:17:00 PM

Ranger677: Yeesh. 90 comments and I am the first to bring up Friday?


There was tube system in "Friday" but the long haul transport was the Semibalistic "Space plane" Friday.

This was posted on TFD and redlit...and didn't make it to the main page.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/10181438/19 00 0mph-spaceplane-gets-Government-funding-to-spark-UK-space-race.html
 
2013-07-16 11:19:40 PM

Hollie Maea: There was a big scandal a few months ago in which a major concrete supplier was giving concrete made with sea sand for major skyscraper projects...


Holy shiat. That's farking scary.

A concrete company in SoCal (who is now out of business) got busted for that too... putting beach sand in their non-spec (below 2500psi) concrete. Not nearly as bad... but still pretty bad. Salt does bad shiat to rebar.
 
2013-07-16 11:19:58 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: Hollie Maea: I really am serious about trying to replace my day job with a "Build the Portland Hyperloop" scheme.

Good luck!

I have another question... and this one is ridiculous... but I cant stop thinking about it.

My train pod thing is traveling in the tube at full passenger capacity... and full speed... out in the middle of the desert. One of those worm things from Tremors comes up and breaks a section of the tube bending it up at a 45 degree angle just as we reach it. Exiting the tube at 4000mph... how far will we travel... and how long will it take to hit the ground (assuming it's roughly level for that distance).


Well, IANAPP, but for one thing, the tube would flood with atmosphere, which the pod would instantly slam into, creating an intense burst of heat, possibly an explosion. I'm guessing they would be scraping up pod chunks and clumps of person in a wide area.
 
2013-07-16 11:20:50 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: Hollie Maea: I really am serious about trying to replace my day job with a "Build the Portland Hyperloop" scheme.

Good luck!

I have another question... and this one is ridiculous... but I cant stop thinking about it.

My train pod thing is traveling in the tube at full passenger capacity... and full speed... out in the middle of the desert. One of those worm things from Tremors comes up and breaks a section of the tube bending it up at a 45 degree angle just as we reach it. Exiting the tube at 4000mph... how far will we travel... and how long will it take to hit the ground (assuming it's roughly level for that distance).


Well, really you would be dominated by air drag.  You'd be way over supersonic, and I don't have the slightest ability to calculate that.  If you neglected air resistance (might as well, since you'll either burn or blow up long before you land if you don't) then the equation for 45 degrees is simply X = V0/G = (1788m/s)^2/(9.8m/s^2)= 326km = 202 miles.

Wheee!!!
 
2013-07-16 11:28:06 PM
Oh look it is this stupid idea. AGAIN.
So how many of these articles will we have a year?
10?
30?
 
2013-07-16 11:29:31 PM

optikeye: Listen to this song from a former Stealy Dan member.

I.G.Y (International Geophysical Year) What a beautiful world it would be....

90 mins from NY to Paris---Undersea by rail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sogYgHlNnqo


Jeez. I was wondering if I was going to have to do it.

Spandex jackets, one for everyone.
 
2013-07-16 11:30:18 PM

neongoats: Well, IANAPP, but for one thing, the tube would flood with atmosphere


Hollie Maea: Wheee!!!


Thank you smart people.
 
2013-07-16 11:38:05 PM
As crazy as it sounds,

It's more stupid than crazy. Now my idea for big glass tubes across the sky to ride your bicycles on, that's crazy.
 
2013-07-16 11:38:10 PM
I wanted to use these.
www.ivchenko-progress.com
Just put "airports" up and down the U.S. coast and maybe Chicago.
There is no field to manage so it's dirt cheap and maintain the "grounds"

Fits 86 or so... can be enlarged.
 
2013-07-16 11:43:05 PM
This may work for NY/LA traffic, since it's almost entirely on land. But the whole "2hrs to China" thing is nonsense. The risks of a rupture over water are just too extreme. If part of the tube breaks in Nebraska, you just stop the train and send out a crew to fix it. if part of the tube breaks in the middle of the atlantic, it floods, and strands people in a little metal tube out in the middle of the ocean for who knows how long, presuming the flooding doesn't kill them. Humans are meant to simply exist over land. Doing so over water adds an exponential amount of problems. It's the same deal with flying cars and space elevators. If there's a problem on the ground, you stop and fix it. If there's a problem in the air/space you fall or suffocate and die.
 
2013-07-16 11:44:59 PM

optikeye: Ranger677: Yeesh. 90 comments and I am the first to bring up Friday?

There was tube system in "Friday" but the long haul transport was the Semibalistic "Space plane" Friday.

This was posted on TFD and redlit...and didn't make it to the main page.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/10181438/19 00 0mph-spaceplane-gets-Government-funding-to-spark-UK-space-race.html


They had the tube transport also went all around the world as well as regional.  I seem to remember booking passage from Canada to Africa or something like that.
 
2013-07-16 11:46:34 PM

DamnYankees: Doesn't seem all that practical. And what if the tube ruptures?


Ehh... telecoms pipe air across underground cables all the time. When they bust a transducer signals a change in air pressure and a technician goes to the point where there's a pressure change, isolates, and seals the damage. It wouldn't be all that difficult. The problem with this seems lie it'd be capital outlay. Mostly in terms of right-of-way and digging the trenches to set them. Ever seen a road move? Oooof... talk about a nightmare.
 
2013-07-16 11:47:39 PM

mrlewish: I wanted to use these.
[www.ivchenko-progress.com image 550x262]
Just put "airports" up and down the U.S. coast and maybe Chicago.
There is no field to manage so it's dirt cheap and maintain the "grounds"

Fits 86 or so... can be enlarged.


make it even BIGGER!
www.russia2all.com
 
2013-07-16 11:51:46 PM
Sounds real cheap, we should buy two.
 
2013-07-16 11:54:46 PM

wildcardjack: This is one of those "advanced society" projects that we can't really pull off.

Trains, planes, and automobiles have their sophistication in the vehicle. The tracks or paths are low tech. Maglev and huge vacuum chambers are much more sophisticated than rail or roads.


That's why equating it with the safety record of air travel is erroneous. With air travel, you can do a 100% safety inspection of the means of travel in a centralized location. All the maintenance takes place at the airport. The medium, air, requires no upkeep. With something like this, you woul dhave tens of thousands of miles of high-tech tube that requires contstan inspection and repair to avert disaster. One slip up and people die. It would be like the daily inspectiosn that rollar coasters require except about a million times more complicated. I just don't see humans pulling it off.
 
2013-07-16 11:56:19 PM

Zombie DJ: "Good ride, huh?"
"Yeah. Made it time for my meeting."

[www.chevychasecentral.com image 400x300]
/hot like a hot tube


The thing about that is the acceleration is what gets you. Right now you're moving through space at thousands of miles and hour and you're fine. Just keep acceleration to 1.1G and no one will notice.
 
2013-07-16 11:56:49 PM

namatad: Oh look it is this stupid idea. AGAIN.
So how many of these articles will we have a year?
10?
30?


A lot, after August 12.  Don't like it? Ignore the articles.
 
2013-07-16 11:57:51 PM

Hector Remarkable: It's more stupid than crazy.


I love you too.

/It may be crazy, but it isn't stupid.
 
2013-07-16 11:58:01 PM

chimp_ninja: Befuddled: One of the nice things about air travel is it is essentially impossible for the average idiot to do harm to aircraft as they criss-cross our nation as they are out of sight and out of reach. Putting a high-speed transportation system on the ground is asking for some dumbass to cause a wreck.

Which is why rail and subway systems have never worked in history.


Awesome Strawman, dude.
 
2013-07-17 12:08:36 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: justtray: FIRST EVER GREENLIGHT HELL YES

Did you submit it three months ago when it was news?

/congratulations on your broken cherry.


http://www.fark.com/comments/5877826
 
2013-07-17 12:09:35 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: justtray: FIRST EVER GREENLIGHT HELL YES

Did you submit it three months ago when it was news?

/congratulations on your broken cherry.


wrong one that first time!
http://www.fark.com/comments/7774715
 
2013-07-17 12:10:59 AM

Hollie Maea: Pray 4 Mojo: Even at a cost effective assumption of the right of way required... say 50 feet...

That's a much larger right of way than will be needed.  The entire tube diameter will be 2 meters.  But yeah, the vast majority of the costs will be land acquisition.


You'll need a wide berth still. Railway tracks are fairly narrow but they have a huge right of way. Even a rinky dink telephone wire needs about 8-12'. Most of that is for maintenance access. You have to have enough access room for work on the system.

I really like projects like this. However, any project that does something different and cheaper is doomed to fail in America. Mainly because, as we've seen in countless urban projects, it needs to be so expensive it greases every palm of every politician and his brother-in-law. If it fails to do that, it won't get accepted.

And that's how America is today.

/sad
 
2013-07-17 12:22:25 AM
 
2013-07-17 12:26:13 AM
As someone that works with vacuum, there's probably going to be a pretty high energy cost keeping the tube evacuated, which seems kind of stupid because if something is actually that urgent we already have telephones and videoconferencing.  For bonus points, you can use a phone while traveling there on a normal, relatively low-cost train if you're really needed in person for something.
 
2013-07-17 12:32:01 AM

Jim_Callahan: As someone that works with vacuum, there's probably going to be a pretty high energy cost keeping the tube evacuated, which seems kind of stupid because if something is actually that urgent we already have telephones and videoconferencing.  For bonus points, you can use a phone while traveling there on a normal, relatively low-cost train if you're really needed in person for something.


I need to write a script that says over and over "it won't be a vacuum tube".  Wrong article is wrong.
 
2013-07-17 12:33:39 AM
d1w7nqlfxfj094.cloudfront.net
 
2013-07-17 12:45:32 AM

taurusowner: This may work for NY/LA traffic, since it's almost entirely on land. But the whole "2hrs to China" thing is nonsense. The risks of a rupture over water are just too extreme. If part of the tube breaks in Nebraska, you just stop the train and send out a crew to fix it. if part of the tube breaks in the middle of the atlantic, it floods, and strands people in a little metal tube out in the middle of the ocean for who knows how long, presuming the flooding doesn't kill them. Humans are meant to simply exist over land. Doing so over water adds an exponential amount of problems. It's the same deal with flying cars and space elevators. If there's a problem on the ground, you stop and fix it. If there's a problem in the air/space you fall or suffocate and die.


The shortest way to China is through Alaska (look at a globe). It's only 50 miles across the Bering Strait
 
2013-07-17 01:27:56 AM

Hollie Maea: I need to write a script that says over and over "it won't be a vacuum tube".  Wrong article is wrong.


A vacuum tube is something specific, but they're talking about partially evacuating the tube to cut out the air resistance factor.  That still takes a lot of pumping and thus energy, plus a lot of maintenance, even if you're just cutting it to a few tens of Torr instead of something more impressive.
 
2013-07-17 01:31:26 AM

Hollie Maea: NobleHam: Hollie Maea: This actually will be less prone to terrorism than air flight. Since the cars will be just single or double occupancy, there is a limit to how many people a terrorist could kill.  At most him self and a handful of cars behind.

And everyone else who doesn't get the news/can't slow down in time and hits the damaged area going thousands of miles per hour.

There's no "getting the news".  It would all be automated of course.  Within a millisecond of the blast you would be decelerating at 4G.  Won't be fun, but would save most the cars in the tube.


That's a nice made-up assumption, but I wouldn't assume it would work that well.
 
2013-07-17 01:34:18 AM

Jim_Callahan: Hollie Maea: I need to write a script that says over and over "it won't be a vacuum tube".  Wrong article is wrong.

A vacuum tube is something specific, but they're talking about partially evacuating the tube to cut out the air resistance factor.  That still takes a lot of pumping and thus energy, plus a lot of maintenance, even if you're just cutting it to a few tens of Torr instead of something more impressive.


Article is still wrong.  The tube won't be evacuated at all.
 
2013-07-17 01:35:08 AM

NobleHam: That's a nice made-up assumption, but I wouldn't assume it would work that well.


Yawn...
 
2013-07-17 01:37:19 AM

Ranger677: Yeesh.  90 comments and I am the first to bring up Friday?


I always saw this book in the library wgen i was a kid. Always made my pants fit funny
 
2013-07-17 01:39:25 AM
Anyone wanna invest in my blimp travel business plan? Ny to london in only 3 days!! Unless the wind is blowing. Then you might end up in notth africa. Or possibly florida
 
2013-07-17 01:40:42 AM
I can haz space elevator first??
 
2013-07-17 01:43:13 AM

StopLurkListen: Sorta-kinda repeat. Oh well, slow news day...

DamnYankees: Doesn't seem all that practical. And what if the tube ruptures?

Not much that goes wrong when flying or driving is survivable, either. Or motorcycling or riding a train or really any activity that makes your little meat body go faster than it can run.

Agree with the practicality, though. Why *does* your little meat body need to go from LA to NY in minutes? The Concorde could go from London to NY lickety-split but it couldn't make enough money to stay in business, except for subsidies in the name of national pride -- and it's route (thin air) required no construction or maintenance ...


with skype existing... no reason at all.
 
2013-07-17 01:44:15 AM
It takes longer than you think dad. LONGER THAN YOU THINK!
 
2013-07-17 02:14:21 AM

Hollie Maea: Pray 4 Mojo: Hollie Maea: I really am serious about trying to replace my day job with a "Build the Portland Hyperloop" scheme.

Good luck!

I have another question... and this one is ridiculous... but I cant stop thinking about it.

My train pod thing is traveling in the tube at full passenger capacity... and full speed... out in the middle of the desert. One of those worm things from Tremors comes up and breaks a section of the tube bending it up at a 45 degree angle just as we reach it. Exiting the tube at 4000mph... how far will we travel... and how long will it take to hit the ground (assuming it's roughly level for that distance).

Well, really you would be dominated by air drag.  You'd be way over supersonic, and I don't have the slightest ability to calculate that.  If you neglected air resistance (might as well, since you'll either burn or blow up long before you land if you don't) then the equation for 45 degrees is simply X = V0/G = (1788m/s)^2/(9.8m/s^2)= 326km = 202 miles.

Wheee!!!


And it will probably take long enough for the occupants to be about medium rare, if the capsule is anything like an X-15. In the diagram below, I think 'excessive heating' refers to above or about 1300 degrees F.

history.nasa.gov

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-60/ch-1.html
 
2013-07-17 02:43:15 AM

Hollie Maea: Jim_Callahan: Hollie Maea: I need to write a script that says over and over "it won't be a vacuum tube".  Wrong article is wrong.

A vacuum tube is something specific, but they're talking about partially evacuating the tube to cut out the air resistance factor.  That still takes a lot of pumping and thus energy, plus a lot of maintenance, even if you're just cutting it to a few tens of Torr instead of something more impressive.

Article is still wrong.  The tube won't be evacuated at all.


It will every time this thing fails, and that will happen  alot.
 
2013-07-17 03:09:05 AM

StopLurkListen: he Concorde could go from London to NY lickety-split but it couldn't make enough money to stay in business, except for subsidies in the name of national pride -- and it's route (thin air) required no construction or maintenance ...


There is no shortage of people who want to fly from London to New York in two hours. Finding those willing to pay £6,800 for the ticket is another matter entirely.

Which also suggest that in the very unlikely event that this is built then this concept

i2.cdn.turner.com

will become this reality.

weknowawesome.com
 
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