If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(CNN)   Good news everyone, I've discovered a method of transporting people from LA to NY in 45 minutes   (cnn.com) divider line 178
    More: Followup, Elon Musk, Los Angeles, magnetic levitation, energy usage, Rand Corporation  
•       •       •

8371 clicks; posted to Geek » on 16 Jul 2013 at 8:57 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



178 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-07-16 07:49:41 PM
Doesn't seem all that practical. And what if the tube ruptures?
 
2013-07-16 08:07:23 PM
fc00.deviantart.net
 
2013-07-16 08:08:00 PM
Wile E Coyote approves.
 
2013-07-16 08:20:44 PM
That's quite a nice model, sir.
 
2013-07-16 08:23:36 PM
I am terrified to fly. I would get in this, in a heartbeat.
 
2013-07-16 08:30:23 PM
Seems simple in theory, but the construction costs would be prohibitive for any large-scale system.
 
2013-07-16 08:57:45 PM
Useless until we get Total Recall.
 
2013-07-16 08:57:53 PM

reported: Seems simple in theory, but the construction costs would be prohibitive for any large-scale system.


So is building another highway.
 
2013-07-16 08:57:53 PM
We've legalized pot and we are getting the tube technology..

What about no more rich and poor people?

/ hail the D!!!
 
2013-07-16 09:01:02 PM
And maintaining a vacuum of that size will only required a1/3 of the nation's electricity.
 
2013-07-16 09:01:03 PM
Sorta-kinda repeat. Oh well, slow news day...

DamnYankees: Doesn't seem all that practical. And what if the tube ruptures?


Not much that goes wrong when flying or driving is survivable, either. Or motorcycling or riding a train or really any activity that makes your little meat body go faster than it can run.

Agree with the practicality, though. Why *does* your little meat body need to go from LA to NY in minutes? The Concorde could go from London to NY lickety-split but it couldn't make enough money to stay in business, except for subsidies in the name of national pride -- and it's route (thin air) required no construction or maintenance ...
 
2013-07-16 09:02:38 PM
FIRST EVER GREENLIGHT HELL YES
 
2013-07-16 09:02:40 PM

DamnYankees: Doesn't seem all that practical. And what if the tube ruptures?


Cool, but I'm already screaming with claustrophobia.
They have to have escape tunnels because we know something would go wrong.

Not a mention what happens if there's a sudden decel from 4500MPH -  I guess the passengers bodies could be sent home in an envelope.
 
2013-07-16 09:03:02 PM

DamnYankees: Doesn't seem all that practical. And what if the tube ruptures?


Unless the tube ruptures right were the capsule is, I imagine there would be something of a jolt, then the thing slowing down do to wind resistance.  Though, with sensors in place to detect changes in air pressure through the system, you could start slowing the capsule with the magnets before they hit the wall of air.

Just my guess, I was an English major, not an engineer.
 
2013-07-16 09:04:22 PM

StopLurkListen: Agree with the practicality, though. Why *does* your little meat body need to go from LA to NY in minutes? The Concorde could go from London to NY lickety-split but it couldn't make enough money to stay in business, except for subsidies in the name of national pride -- and it's route (thin air) required no construction or maintenance ...


'zactly.  Teleportation.  Send your holo-double in real time.
Even now they tout teleconferencing to save travel expenses.
 
2013-07-16 09:05:06 PM
From New York to L.A. in under an hour, great.  Figure in all the stops in between and suddenly that 45 minute trip becomes 8 hours.  Unless you put hubs in all major cities, or at least one major city per state, then one station in each major city, and then you could network the entire U.S. in such a way that you could get across the nation in three hours.  Get a job near a station, put a park n ride next to each station, you could then live in Washington State, and have a daily commute to New York City.
 
2013-07-16 09:06:01 PM

kimwim: reported: Seems simple in theory, but the construction costs would be prohibitive for any large-scale system.

So is building another highway.


Not even in the same ballpark.

StopLurkListen: it couldn't make enough money to stay in business, except for subsidies in the name of national pride


That sounds familiar... Wait, it's coming back to me... Oh yeah, space. That's it.
 
2013-07-16 09:08:07 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
Would be interested in taking a ride.
 
2013-07-16 09:08:23 PM

kimwim: reported: Seems simple in theory, but the construction costs would be prohibitive for any large-scale system.

So is building another highway.


It would be cheaper than what is going to be spent on the damn white elephant high speed rail system here in California.  That piece of shiat serves only one purpose.  It's a method of putting huge amounts of taxpayer money in the pockets of the "right" people.
 
2013-07-16 09:13:41 PM

RatMaster999: DamnYankees: Doesn't seem all that practical. And what if the tube ruptures?

Unless the tube ruptures right were the capsule is, I imagine there would be something of a jolt, then the thing slowing down do to wind resistance.  Though, with sensors in place to detect changes in air pressure through the system, you could start slowing the capsule with the magnets before they hit the wall of air.

Just my guess, I was an English major, not an engineer.


Do != due

I point this out because you are an English major.


See! I'm helpful!
 
2013-07-16 09:13:42 PM
static.ddmcdn.com
Been done
 
2013-07-16 09:13:49 PM
One of the nice things about air travel is it is essentially impossible for the average idiot to do harm to aircraft as they criss-cross our nation as they are out of sight and out of reach. Putting a high-speed transportation system on the ground is asking for some dumbass to cause a wreck.
 
2013-07-16 09:13:52 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: / hail the D!!!


And the double D.  You aren't fooling me... I have seen your posts!

/love the tube idea though.
 
2013-07-16 09:14:08 PM

StopLurkListen: Sorta-kinda repeat. Oh well, slow news day...

DamnYankees: Doesn't seem all that practical. And what if the tube ruptures?

Not much that goes wrong when flying or driving is survivable, either. Or motorcycling or riding a train or really any activity that makes your little meat body go faster than it can run.

Agree with the practicality, though. Why *does* your little meat body need to go from LA to NY in minutes? The Concorde could go from London to NY lickety-split but it couldn't make enough money to stay in business, except for subsidies in the name of national pride -- and it's route (thin air) required no construction or maintenance ...


"Little meat body"? I just have to laugh. You are one smug individual.
 
2013-07-16 09:15:14 PM
"Good ride, huh?"
"Yeah. Made it time for my meeting."

www.chevychasecentral.com
/hot like a hot tube
 
2013-07-16 09:17:01 PM

Nogrhi: The Stealth Hippopotamus: / hail the D!!!

And the double D.  You aren't fooling me... I have seen your posts!

/love the tube idea though.


You know how I know you don't know about the greatest rock band in history?
 
2013-07-16 09:18:28 PM
I'm working on setting up a company to implement this ins Portland. Proof of concept will be Portland to Salem.
 
2013-07-16 09:20:07 PM

reported: Seems simple in theory, but the construction costs would be prohibitive for any large-scale system.


This article is crummy, but construction costs will be about 1/10 as much as bullet trains.
 
2013-07-16 09:20:29 PM

justtray: FIRST EVER GREENLIGHT HELL YES


Did you submit it three months ago when it was news?

/congratulations on your broken cherry.
 
2013-07-16 09:20:43 PM

netringer: DamnYankees: Doesn't seem all that practical. And what if the tube ruptures?

Cool, but I'm already screaming with claustrophobia.
They have to have escape tunnels because we know something would go wrong.

Not a mention what happens if there's a sudden decel from 4500MPH -  I guess the passengers bodies could be sent home in an envelope.


I could just see that NTSB after-crash report:

"So, we've pulled the remains from the wreckage, and after careful analysis, we are fairly certain the passengers were organic. Fairly certain. We're going to try and nail down the species, but..."
"People were in that train, man!"
"Do you have any idea of what happens to stuff when it collides at 4500 mph?! You're damn lucky it didn't spawn a meat-hole..."
 
2013-07-16 09:20:56 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Nogrhi: The Stealth Hippopotamus: / hail the D!!!

And the double D.  You aren't fooling me... I have seen your posts!

/love the tube idea though.

You know how I know you don't know about the greatest rock band in history?


Wow.  Tenacious aren't you?
 
2013-07-16 09:21:04 PM

stuhayes2010: And maintaining a vacuum of that size will only required a1/3 of the nation's electricity.


Article is wrong. This won't be a vacuum tube. The ET3 thing is, but hyper loop is not.
 
2013-07-16 09:24:16 PM
Heat dissipation
Only by radiation
Fails on occasion
 
2013-07-16 09:24:17 PM
This actually will be less prone to terrorism than air flight. Since the cars will be just single or double occupancy, there is a limit to how many people a terrorist could kill.  At most him self and a handful of cars behind.
 
2013-07-16 09:24:40 PM

StopLurkListen: Not much that goes wrong when flying or driving is survivable, either. Or motorcycling or riding a train or really any activity that makes your little meat body go faster than it can run.


WTF kind of cars are you driving? In most (I would venture 99+%) technical or equipment failures in a car... it will simply stop working, slow down and eventually stop.
 
2013-07-16 09:25:09 PM
Is there a chance the tube could bend?
 
2013-07-16 09:27:00 PM

NobleHam: Is there a chance the tube could bend?


Not a chance my Hindu friend.
 
2013-07-16 09:27:02 PM

Hollie Maea: This actually will be less prone to terrorism than air flight. Since the cars will be just single or double occupancy, there is a limit to how many people a terrorist could kill.  At most him self and a handful of cars behind.


And everyone else who doesn't get the news/can't slow down in time and hits the damaged area going thousands of miles per hour.
 
2013-07-16 09:30:16 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: RatMaster999: DamnYankees: Doesn't seem all that practical. And what if the tube ruptures?

Unless the tube ruptures right were the capsule is, I imagine there would be something of a jolt, then the thing slowing down do to wind resistance.  Though, with sensors in place to detect changes in air pressure through the system, you could start slowing the capsule with the magnets before they hit the wall of air.

Just my guess, I was an English major, not an engineer.

Do != due

I point this out because you are an English major.


See! I'm helpful!


D'OH!!
 
2013-07-16 09:31:27 PM

NobleHam: Hollie Maea: This actually will be less prone to terrorism than air flight. Since the cars will be just single or double occupancy, there is a limit to how many people a terrorist could kill.  At most him self and a handful of cars behind.

And everyone else who doesn't get the news/can't slow down in time and hits the damaged area going thousands of miles per hour.


There's no "getting the news".  It would all be automated of course.  Within a millisecond of the blast you would be decelerating at 4G.  Won't be fun, but would save most the cars in the tube.
 
2013-07-16 09:31:36 PM
if we can get enough people going from LA to NY fast enough, eventually a general consensus will be reached agreeing that neither of those places is worth going to. the best technology is the technology that makes itself obsolete by design.
 
2013-07-16 09:31:47 PM
THEY'RE MADE OUT OF MEAT


"They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"Meat. They're made out of meat."

"Meat?"

"There's no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."

"That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?"

"They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."

"So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."

"They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."

"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."

"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they're made out of meat."

"Maybe they're like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."

"Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take long. Do you have any idea what's the life span of meat?"

"Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."

"Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."

"No brain?"

"Oh, there's a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat! That's what I've been trying to tell you."

"So ... what does the thinking?"

"You're not understanding, are you? You're refusing to deal with what I'm telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat."

"Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"

"Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal!  Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?"

"Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."

"Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."

"Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?"

"First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual."

"We're supposed to talk to meat."

"That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.' That sort of thing."

"They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"
"Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."

"I thought you just told me they used radio."

"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."

"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"

"Officially or unofficially?"

"Both."

"Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."

"I was hoping you would say that."

"It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"

"I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say? 'Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"

"Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."

"So we just pretend there's no one home in the Universe."

"That's it."

"Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You're sure they won't remember?"

"They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."

"A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."

"And we marked the entire sector unoccupied."

"Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"

"Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again."

"They always come around."

"And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone ..."
 
2013-07-16 09:31:49 PM

Great Janitor: From New York to L.A. in under an hour, great.  Figure in all the stops in between and suddenly that 45 minute trip becomes 8 hours.  Unless you put hubs in all major cities, or at least one major city per state, then one station in each major city, and then you could network the entire U.S. in such a way that you could get across the nation in three hours.  Get a job near a station, put a park n ride next to each station, you could then live in Washington State, and have a daily commute to New York City.




Depends on how its organized.
This threads a practical repeat of the tube train they wanted to fund last year. Individual cars of about six people plus luggage, able to switch and stop anywhere. I could see that working pretty conveniently for those who live or work near the stations.

If they can get past the obvious problem of how to fund a series of tubes then the remaining issue is the same one all ground transportation has to deal with: getting the land rights for paths into major cities where land can be absurdly expensive and roads/rails already dominate.

/Cities aren't built around a third option. Which is where aircraft came in before.
/any city could have a small one by clearing a few acres.
/maybe Elon has a trick up his sleeve. Gotta wait and see I guess.
 
2013-07-16 09:33:22 PM
Elon Musk: a bold new scent for a brave new world.
\me thinks he's seen Batman Forever...
\\Bruce Wayne drops into a pneumatic coffin and shoots his way back to the bat cave...
\\\would have used a pic, but couldn't find it....
\\\\some day you can't find a picture of Bruce Wayne droping in a pneumatic coffin...
\\
 
2013-07-16 09:33:34 PM

stuhayes2010: And maintaining a vacuum of that size will only required a1/3 of the nation's electricity.


Wanna know how I know you didn't RTFA
 
2013-07-16 09:34:02 PM
Actually, the technology for something like this is already in use all over the country.  The only difference being the mag-lift part for reduced friction.

Very high pressure natural gas pipelines run up and down both costs, across the rockies, and pretty much everywhere else and they have what is called pigging capabilities.  A pig launcher would be a perfect model for getting these transportation units into and out of a pipe without affecting pressures.

If there was an problem I could think of, it would be what happens when these things get stuck and you are 100 miles from the nearest launch/receiving point and running out of oxygen?
 
2013-07-16 09:35:46 PM

justtray: FIRST EVER GREENLIGHT HELL YES


i291.photobucket.com

Welcome!
 
2013-07-16 09:36:14 PM
say he believes ET3 is on the right track, but is missing some key components

Like how to keep organs from rupturing from decelerating after a cross country trip of two hours. Piling up junk at the end of the tube only worked in the Running Man.
 
2013-07-16 09:36:43 PM

way south: maybe Elon has a trick up his sleeve. Gotta wait and see I guess.


He's one of the smartest most visionary people on Earth, and he has been working on this project for almost three years.  In addition to the technology, he's worked out the energy consumption and economics.  You can be pretty certain that this idea is a bit too robust to be broken up by a few Farkers who just heard about it.
 
2013-07-16 09:40:40 PM

SockMonkeyHolocaust: Like how to keep organs from rupturing from decelerating after a cross country trip of two hours.


Not really as much of a problem as you think.  This weekend I saw a car that can accelerate at 1.5G.  Even unhealthy people can handle that for long periods of time.  At that rate of acceleration, it takes only 4 minutes to get up to 8000 mph (or to get back down to zero from 8000 mph).  Piece of cake.
 
2013-07-16 09:45:49 PM
Interesting, but if I'm reading the graphic correctly he's thinking it'll hold 4-6 people at 800-900 lbs total? Has he forgotten what the average American physique is?

And no that's not the capsule's weight, in the body it said they were supposed to be "400-pound, passenger car-sized capsules".
 
2013-07-16 09:48:33 PM

Iczer: Interesting, but if I'm reading the graphic correctly he's thinking it'll hold 4-6 people at 800-900 lbs total? Has he forgotten what the average American physique is?

And no that's not the capsule's weight, in the body it said they were supposed to be "400-pound, passenger car-sized capsules".


Article is all farked up.  Since there are no publicly available details or images until August 12, they used pictures from ET3, which is something else.
 
2013-07-16 09:50:53 PM
No mention in the article of how much the tube would cost.
 
2013-07-16 09:53:35 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: No mention in the article of how much the tube would cost.


Six billion dollars for SF to LA.
 
2013-07-16 09:54:26 PM

Hollie Maea: You can be pretty certain that this idea is a bit too robust to be broken up by a few Farkers who just heard about it.


I'm pretty sure that's not how it works.
 
2013-07-16 09:55:22 PM

Hollie Maea: The All-Powerful Atheismo: No mention in the article of how much the tube would cost.

Six billion dollars for SF to LA.


Does that include the land?

/Serious question this time.
 
2013-07-16 09:56:34 PM

Hollie Maea: The All-Powerful Atheismo: No mention in the article of how much the tube would cost.

Six billion dollars for SF to LA.


That's not LA to NY.
 
2013-07-16 09:57:13 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: Hollie Maea: The All-Powerful Atheismo: No mention in the article of how much the tube would cost.

Six billion dollars for SF to LA.

Does that include the land?

/Serious question this time.


Yes, that's total project cost.  Of course that's just an estimate, but it's a very educated estimate.
 
2013-07-16 09:57:21 PM
I say we just move everyone to KC, where NYC and LA are two days by car.

Then again, no one would drive there, because everyone would be in KC.
 
2013-07-16 09:59:06 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: No mention in the article of how much the tube would cost.


They can offset the cost by using the tubes to transport internet...
 
2013-07-16 10:00:17 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Hollie Maea: The All-Powerful Atheismo: No mention in the article of how much the tube would cost.

Six billion dollars for SF to LA.

That's not LA to NY.


Like I said, the article is all farked up and is mixing a bunch of different ideas.  The only route that Elon Musk has done an economic study on is SF to LA.  It is "ET3" that is looking straight to NY-LA.  But in general, he says it's about 1/10 the cost per mile as a bullet train.  He also hasn't yet said anything about multi thousands of miles per hour like "ET3" has.  And like I said, his idea is not vacuum tube.  It's pneumatic tube.
 
2013-07-16 10:01:52 PM

Hollie Maea: The All-Powerful Atheismo: No mention in the article of how much the tube would cost.

Six billion dollars for SF to LA.


Also I'm pretty sure that number is a load of bullshiat.
 
2013-07-16 10:02:42 PM

moike: The All-Powerful Atheismo: No mention in the article of how much the tube would cost.

They can offset the cost by using the tubes to transport internet...


How will they do that with no dump trucks to build it?
 
2013-07-16 10:03:12 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Also I'm pretty sure that number is a load of bullshiat.


Why would it be?  Nothing else that Elon Musk says is bullshiat.
 
2013-07-16 10:06:55 PM

Hollie Maea: way south: maybe Elon has a trick up his sleeve. Gotta wait and see I guess.

He's one of the smartest most visionary people on Earth, and he has been working on this project for almost three years.  In addition to the technology, he's worked out the energy consumption and economics.  You can be pretty certain that this idea is a bit too robust to be broken up by a few Farkers who just heard about it.


Sure, he founded PayPal, SpaceX, and Tesla Motors.  And he was involved in getting SolarCity rolling.  But what else has he ever accomplished?

The idea sounds kooky, but I can't think of any reason why it couldn't work.  Bullet trains work great in a number of countries, and this sounds essentially like an enclosed bullet train or long-distance subway.  Interested to learn more.

Befuddled: One of the nice things about air travel is it is essentially impossible for the average idiot to do harm to aircraft as they criss-cross our nation as they are out of sight and out of reach. Putting a high-speed transportation system on the ground is asking for some dumbass to cause a wreck.


Which is why rail and subway systems have never worked in history.

netringer: Cool, but I'm already screaming with claustrophobia.  They have to have escape tunnels because we know something would go wrong.  Not a mention what happens if there's a sudden decel from 4500MPH - I guess the passengers bodies could be sent home in an envelope.


Which is why airplanes have never caught on for traversing long distances.  I mean, if anything went wrong with one of those things at 30,000 feet, that would sure be a disaster.

There are reasons to think this might not work, but these are dumb objections.
 
2013-07-16 10:07:42 PM
resources0.news.com.au
 
2013-07-16 10:10:09 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: StopLurkListen: Not much that goes wrong when flying or driving is survivable, either. Or motorcycling or riding a train or really any activity that makes your little meat body go faster than it can run.

WTF kind of cars are you driving? In most (I would venture 99+%) technical or equipment failures in a car... it will simply stop working, slow down and eventually stop.


One of the most dangerous things you'll probably do today is get in a car. Over thirty thousand people in the United States are killed each year in cars.

You odds are obviously extremely good that you won't be killed, but we're not talking about the odds of something going wrong, we're talking about surviving when something does. Going sixty miles per hour in your car and hit something? Good luck. You'll need it because you just ran out of all of it. Those thirty thousand killed didn't die from coasting and eventually stopping ... I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the stop was probably a bit more abrupt.

And before you think I'm an anti-car safety crusader or something, I'm just putting this in perspective for you. Surviving accidents is pretty much out of the question above sprinting speeds. Avoiding accidents should be priority #1.
 
2013-07-16 10:11:13 PM

Hollie Maea: Pray 4 Mojo: Hollie Maea: The All-Powerful Atheismo: No mention in the article of how much the tube would cost.

Six billion dollars for SF to LA.

Does that include the land?

/Serious question this time.

Yes, that's total project cost.  Of course that's just an estimate, but it's a very educated estimate.


If you're talking City to City... that seems like an awfully low estimate. It's about 330-350 miles from LA to SF... Even at a cost effective assumption of the right of way required... say 50 feet... it's over (I'm pretty sure) 2000 acres of land to be purchased. Getting anywhere near SF and LA (and their real estate prices)... that's gotta be eating up 20% of the budget.
 
2013-07-16 10:12:09 PM

chimp_ninja: Sure, he founded PayPal, SpaceX, and Tesla Motors.  And he was involved in getting SolarCity rolling.  But what else has he ever accomplished?


He's not an empty suit either. A lot of people don't realize this, but he's also the chief designer at Spacex...a company that successfully docked with the ISS in only a decade after being founded.  He's one of the greatest engineers on Earth, and has never had a significant failure.  Don't see why he would start now.
 
2013-07-16 10:12:46 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: If you're talking City to City... that seems like an awfully low estimate. It's about 330-350 miles from LA to SF... Even at a cost effective assumption of the right of way required... say 50 feet... it's over (I'm pretty sure) 2000 acres of land to be purchased. Getting anywhere near SF and LA (and their real estate prices)... that's gotta be eating up 20% of the budget.


Just have the tubes sit 50 feet directly above the interstate highway system. Problem solved.
 
2013-07-16 10:14:11 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: Even at a cost effective assumption of the right of way required... say 50 feet...


That's a much larger right of way than will be needed.  The entire tube diameter will be 2 meters.  But yeah, the vast majority of the costs will be land acquisition.
 
2013-07-16 10:16:08 PM

DamnYankees: Just have the tubes sit 50 feet directly above the interstate highway system. Problem solved.


There will undoubtedly be a lot of that.  This will be up on pylons anyway.  It will have to stray from freeways at times because it can't turn nearly as tightly due to the high speeds.
 
2013-07-16 10:19:27 PM

StopLurkListen: Pray 4 Mojo: StopLurkListen: Not much that goes wrong when flying or driving is survivable, either. Or motorcycling or riding a train or really any activity that makes your little meat body go faster than it can run.

WTF kind of cars are you driving? In most (I would venture 99+%) technical or equipment failures in a car... it will simply stop working, slow down and eventually stop.

One of the most dangerous things you'll probably do today is get in a car. Over thirty thousand people in the United States are killed each year in cars.

You odds are obviously extremely good that you won't be killed, but we're not talking about the odds of something going wrong, we're talking about surviving when something does. Going sixty miles per hour in your car and hit something? Good luck. You'll need it because you just ran out of all of it. Those thirty thousand killed didn't die from coasting and eventually stopping ... I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the stop was probably a bit more abrupt.

And before you think I'm an anti-car safety crusader or something, I'm just putting this in perspective for you. Surviving accidents is pretty much out of the question above sprinting speeds. Avoiding accidents should be priority #1.


My problem with what you said isn't that car travel is dangerous... it's equating the danger of air or 4000mph rail travel to car travel. Engines fail mid flight on a commercial plane... you're pretty much dead.

I accept that there is a danger when I drive. But an equipment failure at 70mph is rarely fatal.
 
2013-07-16 10:21:58 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: My problem with what you said isn't that car travel is dangerous... it's equating the danger of air or 4000mph rail travel to car travel. Engines fail mid flight on a commercial plane... you're pretty much dead.

I accept that there is a danger when I drive. But an equipment failure at 70mph is rarely fatal.


Definitely the biggest engineering challenge with this project is making sure that it is as close as possible to 100 percent safe.  That's what Musk has spent most of his work on so far.
 
2013-07-16 10:28:29 PM

Hollie Maea: Pray 4 Mojo: Even at a cost effective assumption of the right of way required... say 50 feet...

That's a much larger right of way than will be needed.  The entire tube diameter will be 2 meters.  But yeah, the vast majority of the costs will be land acquisition.


For each tube? With one in each direction? So a total width of probably 15 feet for the two tubes... and then a 15-20 foot accessible area on each side for construction, maintenance and safety equipment. 50 feet sounds about right.
 
2013-07-16 10:31:05 PM

kimwim: Terry Bisson


Thanks, interesting read.
 
2013-07-16 10:34:16 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: Hollie Maea: Pray 4 Mojo: Even at a cost effective assumption of the right of way required... say 50 feet...

That's a much larger right of way than will be needed.  The entire tube diameter will be 2 meters.  But yeah, the vast majority of the costs will be land acquisition.

For each tube? With one in each direction? So a total width of probably 15 feet for the two tubes... and then a 15-20 foot accessible area on each side for construction, maintenance and safety equipment. 50 feet sounds about right.


Personally, I would put the access road between the two tubes...since it would be up on pylons don't need much buffer on each side.
 
2013-07-16 10:35:34 PM
Neat idea.

Terrible writing. The author clearly doesn't understand the topic very well (taking two barely-related concepts and smashing them together into the same article), and several sentences begin with "but" because the author is trying to create some sort of weak dynamic in the story. There's actually some interesting stuff to learn about here, but writing well about new concepts requires research and careful explanation, not just slapping up some hyperbole and then a few half-understood details.

Then at the end, the author turns to "sources say" nonsense and Twitter quotes that aren't even that relevant to the story.

/I really hate Wired sometimes. They employ some of the worst tech writers on the planet and then farm their content out to media sources like CNN where people don't know any better.
 
2013-07-16 10:36:45 PM

StopLurkListen: One of the most dangerous things you'll probably do today is get in a car. Over thirty thousand people in the United States are killed each year in cars.


Yup.  Let's say we built tube-trains 100 years ago.  What if someone came along in 2013 and said this?

"My idea is that essentially any adult, even really dumb ones, would have a 2 or 3 ton ground vehicle that can go essentially wherever the occupant wants.  To prevent collisions, we'll draw lines on the ground and ask people to pretend that they are actual barriers.  If it's really confusing, we'll put up a system of flashing colored lights and written instructions and ask everyone to memorize what they mean and obey them.  Yeah, I've seen people who can't figure out how to order at a McDonald's, but I'm sure they'll correctly process written instructions as they're hurtling around at 60+ mph.

We'll also lay down, I don't know, 4 million miles of wide concrete strips so that these 3-ton things don't bounce too much as they move around.  We'll load each vehicle up with ~100 pounds of extremely flammable liquid and draw power from a series of controlled explosions.  We'll start that using a big tank of lead and concentrated sulfuric acid.  My initial estimates are that this system will kill roughly as many people each year as breast cancer or alcohol does, and that's before we think about the lung disease from the reduced air quality."


Alternate Universe Fark would blow up.
 
2013-07-16 10:42:51 PM
I don't know.  This entire concept seems less fun than my 2,444 mile long Slip and Slide.
 
2013-07-16 10:43:23 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: My problem with what you said isn't that car travel is dangerous... it's equating the danger of air or 4000mph rail travel to car travel. Engines fail mid flight on a commercial plane... you're pretty much dead.

I accept that there is a danger when I drive. But an equipment failure at 70mph is rarely fatal.


Huh?  On a per-mile basis, traveling by airplane is about eight times safer than traveling by car.
 
2013-07-16 10:44:27 PM
img.trekmovie.com

Roddenberry used the concept Twice in the 70's for Genesis II and recycled the sets for Planet Earth.
A Vacuum global subway system that was still left intact after the 'Apocalypse' as it was pretty much bullet proof and self contained and solar and nuke powered.
But then again this wasn't his (Roddenberry's) idea; the idea of a fast 'rail gun' type subway has been around for long time.

I think Tesla dude must have grown up watching the same 70's SciFi.
 
2013-07-16 10:44:57 PM
Looks viable except there is no bathroom and no way to prevent other passengers BO or farts from asphyxiating you.
 
2013-07-16 10:46:05 PM

Hollie Maea: Personally, I would put the access road between the two tubes...since it would be up on pylons don't need much buffer on each side.


Ohhh... good call. What about seismic and noise issues?

/Hope you know I'm not doing this to break balls... it's really interesting.
//and I appreciate your indulging me.
 
2013-07-16 10:46:15 PM

secularsage: Twitter quotes that aren't even that relevant to the story.


Twitter quotes from yesterday that are a bit more relevant:

Will you cover Hyperloop safety for earthquake prone areas like CA?

yes, that is a critical design driver

http://twitpic.com/cw4pqb

your guess is the closest I've seen anyone guess so far. Pod diameter probably around 2m

This means we can make long sections of HL tube @ a central local, move them down the overhead girders & attach them in sequence!

pretty much.
 
2013-07-16 10:48:17 PM

chimp_ninja: Pray 4 Mojo: My problem with what you said isn't that car travel is dangerous... it's equating the danger of air or 4000mph rail travel to car travel. Engines fail mid flight on a commercial plane... you're pretty much dead.

I accept that there is a danger when I drive. But an equipment failure at 70mph is rarely fatal.

Huh?  On a per-mile basis, traveling by airplane is about eight times safer than traveling by car.


Yeah... you missed the point.
 
2013-07-16 10:48:48 PM

StopLurkListen: Surviving accidents is pretty much out of the question above sprinting speeds


As a mediocre mountain biker, my continued existence refutes your claim...
 
2013-07-16 10:50:37 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: Hollie Maea: Personally, I would put the access road between the two tubes...since it would be up on pylons don't need much buffer on each side.

Ohhh... good call. What about seismic and noise issues?

/Hope you know I'm not doing this to break balls... it's really interesting.
//and I appreciate your indulging me.


It'll be interesting to see what he comes up with for the seismic issue.  My guess is that there will be sort of a pendulum type system in which the pylons can move independent of the tube.  Making pylons that can withstand earthquakes is just old fashioned engineering.  I wouldn't ride on the inevitable Chinese version though.

As far as noise goes, the key to this working is laminar air flow, so it shouldn't be very noisy.

/Thankee for TF
 
2013-07-16 10:51:17 PM

zarker: stuhayes2010: And maintaining a vacuum of that size will only required a1/3 of the nation's electricity.

Wanna know how I know you didn't RTFA


did you miss the fourth paragraph?
 
2013-07-16 10:51:52 PM

kimwim: I am terrified to fly. I would get in this, in a heartbeat.


Which is probably about the time frame from "Start moving" to "chunky salsa"
 
2013-07-16 10:52:36 PM
Listen to this song from a former Stealy Dan member.

I.G.Y (International Geophysical Year) What a beautiful world it would be....

90 mins from NY to Paris---Undersea by rail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sogYgHlNnqo
 
2013-07-16 10:52:45 PM
upload.wikimedia.org

IT CAN'T BE DONE!


// Oh. Well. They were right about that one.
 
2013-07-16 10:53:38 PM

stuhayes2010: zarker: stuhayes2010: And maintaining a vacuum of that size will only required a1/3 of the nation's electricity.

Wanna know how I know you didn't RTFA

did you miss the fourth paragraph?


Yep, article mentions a vacuum tube.  But the article is wrong.
 
2013-07-16 10:54:00 PM
Need to figure out how to cancel Inertia...I mean, while you're at it.
 
2013-07-16 10:54:31 PM

Hollie Maea: way south: maybe Elon has a trick up his sleeve. Gotta wait and see I guess.

He's one of the smartest most visionary people on Earth, and he has been working on this project for almost three years.  In addition to the technology, he's worked out the energy consumption and economics.  You can be pretty certain that this idea is a bit too robust to be broken up by a few Farkers who just heard about it.


Let me be upfront and say I've had a serious mancrush on Elon for his work with SpaceX and Tesla motors.
But, as with his time in paypal, what he does seems more evolutionary than revolutionary.  He brings fresh energy and capital into stale industries, tilting at the windmills of the establishment and getting decent results. He gets away with doing the things many wanted to do but, for various reasons, couldn't get away with.

That said: If this is a land based system, what he's going to need is a revolt.  There's alot of old blood and big money locking up access to urban centers as a means to enrich themselves. So I'm not convinced a new kind of train is the secret to getting around that.

So, yes, I'm hopeful that he's got a real rabbit in the hat this time. Also suspicious that it isn't the kind of solution Populace Science is ready to put on its cover.   Something more to do with the back end politics of getting access than the machinery itself.
 
2013-07-16 10:56:58 PM

phalamir: kimwim: I am terrified to fly. I would get in this, in a heartbeat.

Which is probably about the time frame from "Start moving" to "chunky salsa"


Like I said, this could easily be accomplished with a mere 1.5G of acceleration, which causes no physiological harm.  The high speed, of course, has zero effect on the body.
 
2013-07-16 11:00:28 PM
syntheticsean.files.wordpress.com

Yeesh.  90 comments and I am the first to bring up Friday?
 
2013-07-16 11:00:52 PM

Hollie Maea: /Thankee for TF


Don't thank me. I just destroyed your productivity for the next 30 days. Muahahahaha!!
 
2013-07-16 11:01:01 PM

StopLurkListen: Pray 4 Mojo: StopLurkListen: Not much that goes wrong when flying or driving is survivable, either. Or motorcycling or riding a train or really any activity that makes your little meat body go faster than it can run.

WTF kind of cars are you driving? In most (I would venture 99+%) technical or equipment failures in a car... it will simply stop working, slow down and eventually stop.

One of the most dangerous things you'll probably do today is get in a car. Over thirty thousand people in the United States are killed each year in cars.

You odds are obviously extremely good that you won't be killed, but we're not talking about the odds of something going wrong, we're talking about surviving when something does. Going sixty miles per hour in your car and hit something? Good luck. You'll need it because you just ran out of all of it. Those thirty thousand killed didn't die from coasting and eventually stopping ... I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the stop was probably a bit more abrupt.

And before you think I'm an anti-car safety crusader or something, I'm just putting this in perspective for you. Surviving accidents is pretty much out of the question above sprinting speeds. Avoiding accidents should be priority #1.



Wha...

**blinks*

...

...

I...

....


...

i624.photobucket.com

....


Yea. Umm. Have ...a...pleasant day?
 
2013-07-16 11:01:56 PM

way south: That said: If this is a land based system, what he's going to need is a revolt.  There's alot of old blood and big money locking up access to urban centers as a means to enrich themselves. So I'm not convinced a new kind of train is the secret to getting around that.


That's why my plan for the company I am trying to start would do the initial proof of concept from Portland to Salem.  Relatively small number of politicians to work with, and overwhelmingly would be the type to not give a shiat about big money politics.  Plus the trump card that a lot of the state level pols live in Portland and commute to Salem.  Cutting that commute from 90 minutes to 5 would be irresistible.  The side benefit is that it's about the right length for an initial proof of concept, plus the terrain is easy.  But once the first one of these is built and people see it in action, there WILL be a revolt if "powers that be" try to withhold it.
 
2013-07-16 11:03:11 PM

rogue49: Need to figure out how to cancel Inertia


No need to cancel it...just capture it with regenerative braking.
 
2013-07-16 11:03:44 PM
This is one of those "advanced society" projects that we can't really pull off.

Trains, planes, and automobiles have their sophistication in the vehicle. The tracks or paths are low tech. Maglev and huge vacuum chambers are much more sophisticated than rail or roads.

Now, semi-ballistic missiles...
 
2013-07-16 11:04:17 PM

Hollie Maea: I wouldn't ride on the inevitable Chinese version though.


I don't know the Chinese has HAVE experience with a maglev type system.

Take a look...that's far better than anything the USA has. This exists.and isn't a pipe dream.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc81Wej6XWI

Heck...FRANCE has far better than anything the USA has for ground transport. We suck and are just rather angry now about our past achievements.
 
2013-07-16 11:04:37 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: Hollie Maea: /Thankee for TF

Don't thank me. I just destroyed your productivity for the next 30 days. Muahahahaha!!


Yeah, I'm going to have to watch my ass.  It's bad enough as it is...as stupid as I'm sure this sounds, I really am serious about trying to replace my day job with a "Build the Portland Hyperloop" scheme.
 
2013-07-16 11:05:44 PM

Morpher59: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x298]
Would be interested in taking a ride.


thank you
 
2013-07-16 11:08:26 PM
Came for Friday reference, leaving satisfied.

Also would have accepted an L. Neil Smith reference.
 
2013-07-16 11:10:11 PM

optikeye: Hollie Maea: I wouldn't ride on the inevitable Chinese version though.

I don't know the Chinese has HAVE experience with a maglev type system.

Take a look...that's far better than anything the USA has. This exists.and isn't a pipe dream.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc81Wej6XWI

Heck...FRANCE has far better than anything the USA has for ground transport. We suck and are just rather angry now about our past achievements.


Oh yeah, I'm a big fan of the Chinese high speed rail system and especially their maglev.  The biggest problem with China is that any time you have a big project you can pretty much flip a coin as to whether or not you'll get a corrupt subcontractor.  There was a big scandal a few months ago in which a major concrete supplier was giving concrete made with sea sand for major skyscraper projects...
 
2013-07-16 11:11:00 PM

Hollie Maea: I really am serious about trying to replace my day job with a "Build the Portland Hyperloop" scheme.


Good luck!

I have another question... and this one is ridiculous... but I cant stop thinking about it.

My train pod thing is traveling in the tube at full passenger capacity... and full speed... out in the middle of the desert. One of those worm things from Tremors comes up and breaks a section of the tube bending it up at a 45 degree angle just as we reach it. Exiting the tube at 4000mph... how far will we travel... and how long will it take to hit the ground (assuming it's roughly level for that distance).
 
2013-07-16 11:13:32 PM

kimwim: THEY'RE MADE OUT OF MEAT


I remember reading that somewhere a very long time ago, just can't remember where.
 
2013-07-16 11:14:43 PM
What could possibly go wrong?
 
2013-07-16 11:14:47 PM

Hollie Maea: rogue49: Need to figure out how to cancel Inertia

No need to cancel it...just capture it with regenerative braking.


Protip: use magnets for faster capturing.
 
2013-07-16 11:17:00 PM

Ranger677: Yeesh. 90 comments and I am the first to bring up Friday?


There was tube system in "Friday" but the long haul transport was the Semibalistic "Space plane" Friday.

This was posted on TFD and redlit...and didn't make it to the main page.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/10181438/19 00 0mph-spaceplane-gets-Government-funding-to-spark-UK-space-race.html
 
2013-07-16 11:19:40 PM

Hollie Maea: There was a big scandal a few months ago in which a major concrete supplier was giving concrete made with sea sand for major skyscraper projects...


Holy shiat. That's farking scary.

A concrete company in SoCal (who is now out of business) got busted for that too... putting beach sand in their non-spec (below 2500psi) concrete. Not nearly as bad... but still pretty bad. Salt does bad shiat to rebar.
 
2013-07-16 11:19:58 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: Hollie Maea: I really am serious about trying to replace my day job with a "Build the Portland Hyperloop" scheme.

Good luck!

I have another question... and this one is ridiculous... but I cant stop thinking about it.

My train pod thing is traveling in the tube at full passenger capacity... and full speed... out in the middle of the desert. One of those worm things from Tremors comes up and breaks a section of the tube bending it up at a 45 degree angle just as we reach it. Exiting the tube at 4000mph... how far will we travel... and how long will it take to hit the ground (assuming it's roughly level for that distance).


Well, IANAPP, but for one thing, the tube would flood with atmosphere, which the pod would instantly slam into, creating an intense burst of heat, possibly an explosion. I'm guessing they would be scraping up pod chunks and clumps of person in a wide area.
 
2013-07-16 11:20:50 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: Hollie Maea: I really am serious about trying to replace my day job with a "Build the Portland Hyperloop" scheme.

Good luck!

I have another question... and this one is ridiculous... but I cant stop thinking about it.

My train pod thing is traveling in the tube at full passenger capacity... and full speed... out in the middle of the desert. One of those worm things from Tremors comes up and breaks a section of the tube bending it up at a 45 degree angle just as we reach it. Exiting the tube at 4000mph... how far will we travel... and how long will it take to hit the ground (assuming it's roughly level for that distance).


Well, really you would be dominated by air drag.  You'd be way over supersonic, and I don't have the slightest ability to calculate that.  If you neglected air resistance (might as well, since you'll either burn or blow up long before you land if you don't) then the equation for 45 degrees is simply X = V0/G = (1788m/s)^2/(9.8m/s^2)= 326km = 202 miles.

Wheee!!!
 
2013-07-16 11:28:06 PM
Oh look it is this stupid idea. AGAIN.
So how many of these articles will we have a year?
10?
30?
 
2013-07-16 11:29:31 PM

optikeye: Listen to this song from a former Stealy Dan member.

I.G.Y (International Geophysical Year) What a beautiful world it would be....

90 mins from NY to Paris---Undersea by rail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sogYgHlNnqo


Jeez. I was wondering if I was going to have to do it.

Spandex jackets, one for everyone.
 
2013-07-16 11:30:18 PM

neongoats: Well, IANAPP, but for one thing, the tube would flood with atmosphere


Hollie Maea: Wheee!!!


Thank you smart people.
 
2013-07-16 11:38:05 PM
As crazy as it sounds,

It's more stupid than crazy. Now my idea for big glass tubes across the sky to ride your bicycles on, that's crazy.
 
2013-07-16 11:38:10 PM
I wanted to use these.
www.ivchenko-progress.com
Just put "airports" up and down the U.S. coast and maybe Chicago.
There is no field to manage so it's dirt cheap and maintain the "grounds"

Fits 86 or so... can be enlarged.
 
2013-07-16 11:43:05 PM
This may work for NY/LA traffic, since it's almost entirely on land. But the whole "2hrs to China" thing is nonsense. The risks of a rupture over water are just too extreme. If part of the tube breaks in Nebraska, you just stop the train and send out a crew to fix it. if part of the tube breaks in the middle of the atlantic, it floods, and strands people in a little metal tube out in the middle of the ocean for who knows how long, presuming the flooding doesn't kill them. Humans are meant to simply exist over land. Doing so over water adds an exponential amount of problems. It's the same deal with flying cars and space elevators. If there's a problem on the ground, you stop and fix it. If there's a problem in the air/space you fall or suffocate and die.
 
2013-07-16 11:44:59 PM

optikeye: Ranger677: Yeesh. 90 comments and I am the first to bring up Friday?

There was tube system in "Friday" but the long haul transport was the Semibalistic "Space plane" Friday.

This was posted on TFD and redlit...and didn't make it to the main page.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/10181438/19 00 0mph-spaceplane-gets-Government-funding-to-spark-UK-space-race.html


They had the tube transport also went all around the world as well as regional.  I seem to remember booking passage from Canada to Africa or something like that.
 
2013-07-16 11:46:34 PM

DamnYankees: Doesn't seem all that practical. And what if the tube ruptures?


Ehh... telecoms pipe air across underground cables all the time. When they bust a transducer signals a change in air pressure and a technician goes to the point where there's a pressure change, isolates, and seals the damage. It wouldn't be all that difficult. The problem with this seems lie it'd be capital outlay. Mostly in terms of right-of-way and digging the trenches to set them. Ever seen a road move? Oooof... talk about a nightmare.
 
2013-07-16 11:47:39 PM

mrlewish: I wanted to use these.
[www.ivchenko-progress.com image 550x262]
Just put "airports" up and down the U.S. coast and maybe Chicago.
There is no field to manage so it's dirt cheap and maintain the "grounds"

Fits 86 or so... can be enlarged.


make it even BIGGER!
www.russia2all.com
 
2013-07-16 11:51:46 PM
Sounds real cheap, we should buy two.
 
2013-07-16 11:54:46 PM

wildcardjack: This is one of those "advanced society" projects that we can't really pull off.

Trains, planes, and automobiles have their sophistication in the vehicle. The tracks or paths are low tech. Maglev and huge vacuum chambers are much more sophisticated than rail or roads.


That's why equating it with the safety record of air travel is erroneous. With air travel, you can do a 100% safety inspection of the means of travel in a centralized location. All the maintenance takes place at the airport. The medium, air, requires no upkeep. With something like this, you woul dhave tens of thousands of miles of high-tech tube that requires contstan inspection and repair to avert disaster. One slip up and people die. It would be like the daily inspectiosn that rollar coasters require except about a million times more complicated. I just don't see humans pulling it off.
 
2013-07-16 11:56:19 PM

Zombie DJ: "Good ride, huh?"
"Yeah. Made it time for my meeting."

[www.chevychasecentral.com image 400x300]
/hot like a hot tube


The thing about that is the acceleration is what gets you. Right now you're moving through space at thousands of miles and hour and you're fine. Just keep acceleration to 1.1G and no one will notice.
 
2013-07-16 11:56:49 PM

namatad: Oh look it is this stupid idea. AGAIN.
So how many of these articles will we have a year?
10?
30?


A lot, after August 12.  Don't like it? Ignore the articles.
 
2013-07-16 11:57:51 PM

Hector Remarkable: It's more stupid than crazy.


I love you too.

/It may be crazy, but it isn't stupid.
 
2013-07-16 11:58:01 PM

chimp_ninja: Befuddled: One of the nice things about air travel is it is essentially impossible for the average idiot to do harm to aircraft as they criss-cross our nation as they are out of sight and out of reach. Putting a high-speed transportation system on the ground is asking for some dumbass to cause a wreck.

Which is why rail and subway systems have never worked in history.


Awesome Strawman, dude.
 
2013-07-17 12:08:36 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: justtray: FIRST EVER GREENLIGHT HELL YES

Did you submit it three months ago when it was news?

/congratulations on your broken cherry.


http://www.fark.com/comments/5877826
 
2013-07-17 12:09:35 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: justtray: FIRST EVER GREENLIGHT HELL YES

Did you submit it three months ago when it was news?

/congratulations on your broken cherry.


wrong one that first time!
http://www.fark.com/comments/7774715
 
2013-07-17 12:10:59 AM

Hollie Maea: Pray 4 Mojo: Even at a cost effective assumption of the right of way required... say 50 feet...

That's a much larger right of way than will be needed.  The entire tube diameter will be 2 meters.  But yeah, the vast majority of the costs will be land acquisition.


You'll need a wide berth still. Railway tracks are fairly narrow but they have a huge right of way. Even a rinky dink telephone wire needs about 8-12'. Most of that is for maintenance access. You have to have enough access room for work on the system.

I really like projects like this. However, any project that does something different and cheaper is doomed to fail in America. Mainly because, as we've seen in countless urban projects, it needs to be so expensive it greases every palm of every politician and his brother-in-law. If it fails to do that, it won't get accepted.

And that's how America is today.

/sad
 
2013-07-17 12:22:25 AM
 
2013-07-17 12:26:13 AM
As someone that works with vacuum, there's probably going to be a pretty high energy cost keeping the tube evacuated, which seems kind of stupid because if something is actually that urgent we already have telephones and videoconferencing.  For bonus points, you can use a phone while traveling there on a normal, relatively low-cost train if you're really needed in person for something.
 
2013-07-17 12:32:01 AM

Jim_Callahan: As someone that works with vacuum, there's probably going to be a pretty high energy cost keeping the tube evacuated, which seems kind of stupid because if something is actually that urgent we already have telephones and videoconferencing.  For bonus points, you can use a phone while traveling there on a normal, relatively low-cost train if you're really needed in person for something.


I need to write a script that says over and over "it won't be a vacuum tube".  Wrong article is wrong.
 
2013-07-17 12:33:39 AM
d1w7nqlfxfj094.cloudfront.net
 
2013-07-17 12:45:32 AM

taurusowner: This may work for NY/LA traffic, since it's almost entirely on land. But the whole "2hrs to China" thing is nonsense. The risks of a rupture over water are just too extreme. If part of the tube breaks in Nebraska, you just stop the train and send out a crew to fix it. if part of the tube breaks in the middle of the atlantic, it floods, and strands people in a little metal tube out in the middle of the ocean for who knows how long, presuming the flooding doesn't kill them. Humans are meant to simply exist over land. Doing so over water adds an exponential amount of problems. It's the same deal with flying cars and space elevators. If there's a problem on the ground, you stop and fix it. If there's a problem in the air/space you fall or suffocate and die.


The shortest way to China is through Alaska (look at a globe). It's only 50 miles across the Bering Strait
 
2013-07-17 01:27:56 AM

Hollie Maea: I need to write a script that says over and over "it won't be a vacuum tube".  Wrong article is wrong.


A vacuum tube is something specific, but they're talking about partially evacuating the tube to cut out the air resistance factor.  That still takes a lot of pumping and thus energy, plus a lot of maintenance, even if you're just cutting it to a few tens of Torr instead of something more impressive.
 
2013-07-17 01:31:26 AM

Hollie Maea: NobleHam: Hollie Maea: This actually will be less prone to terrorism than air flight. Since the cars will be just single or double occupancy, there is a limit to how many people a terrorist could kill.  At most him self and a handful of cars behind.

And everyone else who doesn't get the news/can't slow down in time and hits the damaged area going thousands of miles per hour.

There's no "getting the news".  It would all be automated of course.  Within a millisecond of the blast you would be decelerating at 4G.  Won't be fun, but would save most the cars in the tube.


That's a nice made-up assumption, but I wouldn't assume it would work that well.
 
2013-07-17 01:34:18 AM

Jim_Callahan: Hollie Maea: I need to write a script that says over and over "it won't be a vacuum tube".  Wrong article is wrong.

A vacuum tube is something specific, but they're talking about partially evacuating the tube to cut out the air resistance factor.  That still takes a lot of pumping and thus energy, plus a lot of maintenance, even if you're just cutting it to a few tens of Torr instead of something more impressive.


Article is still wrong.  The tube won't be evacuated at all.
 
2013-07-17 01:35:08 AM

NobleHam: That's a nice made-up assumption, but I wouldn't assume it would work that well.


Yawn...
 
2013-07-17 01:37:19 AM

Ranger677: Yeesh.  90 comments and I am the first to bring up Friday?


I always saw this book in the library wgen i was a kid. Always made my pants fit funny
 
2013-07-17 01:39:25 AM
Anyone wanna invest in my blimp travel business plan? Ny to london in only 3 days!! Unless the wind is blowing. Then you might end up in notth africa. Or possibly florida
 
2013-07-17 01:40:42 AM
I can haz space elevator first??
 
2013-07-17 01:43:13 AM

StopLurkListen: Sorta-kinda repeat. Oh well, slow news day...

DamnYankees: Doesn't seem all that practical. And what if the tube ruptures?

Not much that goes wrong when flying or driving is survivable, either. Or motorcycling or riding a train or really any activity that makes your little meat body go faster than it can run.

Agree with the practicality, though. Why *does* your little meat body need to go from LA to NY in minutes? The Concorde could go from London to NY lickety-split but it couldn't make enough money to stay in business, except for subsidies in the name of national pride -- and it's route (thin air) required no construction or maintenance ...


with skype existing... no reason at all.
 
2013-07-17 01:44:15 AM
It takes longer than you think dad. LONGER THAN YOU THINK!
 
2013-07-17 02:14:21 AM

Hollie Maea: Pray 4 Mojo: Hollie Maea: I really am serious about trying to replace my day job with a "Build the Portland Hyperloop" scheme.

Good luck!

I have another question... and this one is ridiculous... but I cant stop thinking about it.

My train pod thing is traveling in the tube at full passenger capacity... and full speed... out in the middle of the desert. One of those worm things from Tremors comes up and breaks a section of the tube bending it up at a 45 degree angle just as we reach it. Exiting the tube at 4000mph... how far will we travel... and how long will it take to hit the ground (assuming it's roughly level for that distance).

Well, really you would be dominated by air drag.  You'd be way over supersonic, and I don't have the slightest ability to calculate that.  If you neglected air resistance (might as well, since you'll either burn or blow up long before you land if you don't) then the equation for 45 degrees is simply X = V0/G = (1788m/s)^2/(9.8m/s^2)= 326km = 202 miles.

Wheee!!!


And it will probably take long enough for the occupants to be about medium rare, if the capsule is anything like an X-15. In the diagram below, I think 'excessive heating' refers to above or about 1300 degrees F.

history.nasa.gov

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-60/ch-1.html
 
2013-07-17 02:43:15 AM

Hollie Maea: Jim_Callahan: Hollie Maea: I need to write a script that says over and over "it won't be a vacuum tube".  Wrong article is wrong.

A vacuum tube is something specific, but they're talking about partially evacuating the tube to cut out the air resistance factor.  That still takes a lot of pumping and thus energy, plus a lot of maintenance, even if you're just cutting it to a few tens of Torr instead of something more impressive.

Article is still wrong.  The tube won't be evacuated at all.


It will every time this thing fails, and that will happen  alot.
 
2013-07-17 03:09:05 AM

StopLurkListen: he Concorde could go from London to NY lickety-split but it couldn't make enough money to stay in business, except for subsidies in the name of national pride -- and it's route (thin air) required no construction or maintenance ...


There is no shortage of people who want to fly from London to New York in two hours. Finding those willing to pay £6,800 for the ticket is another matter entirely.

Which also suggest that in the very unlikely event that this is built then this concept

i2.cdn.turner.com

will become this reality.

weknowawesome.com
 
2013-07-17 07:29:18 AM

DamnYankees: Doesn't seem all that practical. And what if the tube ruptures?


You slow down as drag increases. Oh the humani...non catastrophic failure mode.
 
2013-07-17 07:47:35 AM
Bunch of pessimists up in here.
 
2013-07-17 07:53:13 AM

retarded: Bunch of pessimists up in here.


Armchair engineers.
 
2013-07-17 08:41:28 AM

DamnYankees: And what if the tube ruptures?


People are mostly responding to this as a safety question, but from a more operational perspective, a rupture will shut down the whole system every time it happens, until someone can get out and repair it.  And can you imagine guarding 3000 miles of tube against intentional attacks?
 
2013-07-17 09:16:17 AM

Ambitwistor: DamnYankees: And what if the tube ruptures?

People are mostly responding to this as a safety question, but from a more operational perspective, a rupture will shut down the whole system every time it happens, until someone can get out and repair it.  And can you imagine guarding 3000 miles of tube against intentional attacks?


Is this any different really at this point then the amount of time and effort we spend guarding our countless miles of highways, railroads, and oil and gas pipelines?
 
2013-07-17 09:17:47 AM

Ambitwistor: can you imagine guarding 3000 miles of tube against intentional attacks?


Sensors, drones, and fences go a long way.  Pardoning the easy comparison to the Mexican border, but its not that difficult to defend something if you really want to defend it.

We also don't know the details of what people would be attacking, let alone why they would be attacking the thing.  You could damage a rail system or road pretty easily, but most folks just can't be bothered to mess with chunks of concrete and iron for no reward.

I'd imagine a tube strong enough to contain a 600mph passenger car and hold back several atmospheres of pressure over tens of miles wouldn't be the kind of glass that chips when you simply throw a rock at it.
A terrorist would be going to alot of trouble just to delay a few dozen passengers.
 
2013-07-17 09:24:36 AM

retarded: Bunch of pessimists up in here.


God, that's for sure.  It seems like the national motto is "that'll never work".  Probably no conincidence that the national activity is whining about how "they" haven't yet provided us with flying cars.
 
2013-07-17 09:30:19 AM

ceebeecates4: Heat dissipation
Only by radiation
Fails on occasion


Nice fiery death Haiku...
 
2013-07-17 09:44:14 AM
Musk did great work with Space-X, but every time I see him, it's like he's forgetting the steps in between "concept" and "completion".  Or, more accurately, he's underestimating the engineering problems.  He seemed out of his element when Tesla started running into trouble, and the only thing he knew to do was to sell harder.

I think he got unbelievably lucky with Space-X and either hired the right people himself or knew the right people who could hire the right people.  I'm not saying it's an impossible project.  I'd just like to see a few miles of Proof of Concept first, and see what unexpected construction challenges hit.
 
2013-07-17 09:50:51 AM

The Green Intern: He seemed out of his element when Tesla started running into trouble, and the only thing he knew to do was to sell harder.


How are things over there in alternate universe land?
 
2013-07-17 10:25:59 AM
FTFA: it could generate more power than it would consume.

Farking conservation of energy, how does it work?

cdn2-b.examiner.com
 
2013-07-17 10:26:25 AM

Hollie Maea: The Green Intern: He seemed out of his element when Tesla started running into trouble, and the only thing he knew to do was to sell harder.

How are things over there in alternate universe land?


Apologies.  It's a subjective feeling I got.  My impression is that he gets this deer in the headlights look at anything unknown.  The moment the problem's identified, he's back to calm and in control, but the unknown /really/ rattles him.

Based on interviews I've seen, he's great at concept, he's great at selling, and he's great at talking about known issues, but has always seemed a bit off when something unforeseen happens.  Like... he'll memorize everything about something, and if it breaks in a way that's been mapped out as a possibility, he's fine.  He understands it.  He can explain it.  He's got encyclopedic knowledge of everything related to his current project, but if something goes off the script he looks scared.

Don't get me wrong; I like the guy.  I like his ideas.  I like the "go big" approach to his stuff.  Even if he only gets half of what he was aiming for, he's aimed so high that it's still a huge leap.

Maybe what I saw was an older program being re-run and I missed that part of the presentation. Maybe it was a hatchet piece disguised as a documentary and I fell for it hook, line, and sinker; it was footage of him speaking to investors/customers on backorder and asking for more money at one of the dealerships.  The general attitude in the room seemed like a mix of incredulity and hostility, and a lot of unhappy people walked out when he was vague with his answers to their questions.  In hindsight, I can see how it could have been a hatchet piece... Top Gear certainly did it to Tesla.  But this was on PBS, and I tend to accept their programming as a bit more even-handed.
 
2013-07-17 10:41:28 AM

Hollie Maea: This actually will be less prone to terrorism than air flight. Since the cars will be just single or double occupancy, there is a limit to how many people a terrorist could kill.  At most him self and a handful of cars behind.


Yeah but you take out one plane and there are thousands still in operation. You take out a tube and you have effectively stopped transportation for quite some time and have created a massive economic strike. There is no way you could effectively protect that much infrastructure which would make sabotaging any part of it really really easy. This would be ripe for lone whackos, domestic terrorists, and terrorists that understand that the fear component and economic damage you deal is far more devastating to a nation than the body count today. China understands this. They are waging a cyber war and economic war, and that is WAY more effective and easier to do. Taking out just a few yards or putting a hole in the tube could render it useless. How long would it take to repair that? What about repairing a quarter mile of it?
 
2013-07-17 10:44:49 AM
Personal transportation? No. Cargo transportation? Possibly so. Depending on the weight capacity to move and the cost differential, setting up international trading tubes might prove extremely useful. Could you imagine moving goods at that rate of speed from one location to the next without clogging up the pedestrian infrastructure, at a fraction of the operating cost, long distances, without all that pollution? How much pollution comes from 1 Chinese Barge? Imagine removing hundreds if not thousands of those from the seas. Now, you are starting to make an impact.
 
2013-07-17 11:18:09 AM

justtray: FIRST EVER GREENLIGHT HELL YES


Congratulations!  I heard a snippet of this on NPR and was talking to the mrs about it, nice to have a link at hand.
 
2013-07-17 11:31:16 AM

the money is in the banana stand: Taking out just a few yards or putting a hole in the tube could render it useless. How long would it take to repair that? What about repairing a quarter mile of it?


Prefabricated sections means easy repair.

In general, I don't buy the common sentiment that "we shouldn't build stuff because people will wreck it".  There are a ton of wide ranging infrastructure systems vulnerable to attack.  Natural Gas pipelines.  The Electrical grid--take out one tower of the Pacific DC Intertie, and Los Angeles county loses 40 percent of their power.  Cascading effects probably would take out most of the western grid.  Bridges on major freeways.  Once the Keystone pipeline is done, you could potentially contaminate billions of gallons of drinking water with a single bomb.

As long as we want to have "nice things" there will always be some vulnerability.  The more important a system is, the more we have to lose if it is brought down.  The best we can do is make things robust and add security.  Will someone bomb the hyperloop at some point?  Probably.  But certainly it wouldn't be something that would be common or easy.
 
2013-07-17 11:32:46 AM

TelemonianAjax: I heard a snippet of this on NPR and was talking to the mrs about it, nice to have a link at hand.


Careful with this link (and the other news releases) as it contains a lot of misinformation.  Believe it or not, probably your best source of accurate information is the wiki article and the citations thereon.
 
2013-07-17 11:48:48 AM

Hollie Maea: Pray 4 Mojo: Hollie Maea: /Thankee for TF

Don't thank me. I just destroyed your productivity for the next 30 days. Muahahahaha!!

Yeah, I'm going to have to watch my ass.  It's bad enough as it is...as stupid as I'm sure this sounds, I really am serious about trying to replace my day job with a "Build the Portland Hyperloop" scheme.


I think it's really cool you're getting involved in a world changing project you believe in.  I hope to hear more about this around Fark in the future.  Best of luck.

And thanks for the tip on the link.  We've coasted for the better part of a century on old infrastructure models, and we've learned a lot since Ike's day.  It's time to start using that knowledge.   I'm firmly of the opinion that the only options left to us are to literally rebuild the systems we know we'll need in the next 100 years.
 
2013-07-17 11:55:34 AM

Macular Degenerate: FTFA: it could generate more power than it would consume.

Farking conservation of energy, how does it work?

[cdn2-b.examiner.com image 600x337]


300 miles of solar panels = net producer
 
2013-07-17 12:02:09 PM

Hollie Maea: the money is in the banana stand: Taking out just a few yards or putting a hole in the tube could render it useless. How long would it take to repair that? What about repairing a quarter mile of it?

Prefabricated sections means easy repair.

In general, I don't buy the common sentiment that "we shouldn't build stuff because people will wreck it".  There are a ton of wide ranging infrastructure systems vulnerable to attack.  Natural Gas pipelines.  The Electrical grid--take out one tower of the Pacific DC Intertie, and Los Angeles county loses 40 percent of their power.  Cascading effects probably would take out most of the western grid.  Bridges on major freeways.  Once the Keystone pipeline is done, you could potentially contaminate billions of gallons of drinking water with a single bomb.

As long as we want to have "nice things" there will always be some vulnerability.  The more important a system is, the more we have to lose if it is brought down.  The best we can do is make things robust and add security.  Will someone bomb the hyperloop at some point?  Probably.  But certainly it wouldn't be something that would be common or easy.


I don't think we shouldn't build it because people will wreck it, I am saying that that concern needs to be addressed so we have a contingency plan for it should the worst case scenario occur. Personally, I feel that terrorist attacks will become more common as we become more and more global - so naturally, planning for that might be a good idea. Further, I don't understand how it would not be easy to do. Pulling off any minor terrorist attack would be extremely easy on miles and miles of infrastructure. While bombing say the middle of I-10 in a major city and major intersection at any time of day would be difficult, doing so at some odd hour on a stretch in the middle of farking nowhere would not be. It would be just as devastating if not more, disrupting somewhere that would take forever to repair and get materials to versus an easily accessible spot.
 
2013-07-17 12:08:15 PM

TelemonianAjax: I think it's really cool you're getting involved in a world changing project you believe in.  I hope to hear more about this around Fark in the future.  Best of luck.


Thanks...I know it's a bit of a longshot.  I will have to be able to recruit world class people in several different fields.  But I do know several relevant world class people (including a guy who designed and built the controller for an F1 KERS).  I also have the ear of relevant local politicians through some associations I am a member of.  Once I can build up a "kernel of legitimacy" so people don't think I'm just some dumb kid fantasizing, then recruiting talent and raising money becomes easier.

The good news is that since it is open source, I don't have to beat everyone out.  If some deep pocket types are planning this for California, that doesn't stop us from trying to do a better job here.  Definitely if someone here in Portland had plans for it it would be someone I knew or with whom I had mutual friends.
 
2013-07-17 12:12:46 PM

the money is in the banana stand: I am saying that that concern needs to be addressed so we have a contingency plan for it should the worst case scenario occur.


Absolutely.  That would need to be a major part of any Environmental Impact Statement.  And we would need to quantify just how easy it would be to do.
 
2013-07-17 03:05:06 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: NobleHam: Is there a chance the tube could bend?

Not a chance my Hindu friend.


Monorail!
 
2013-07-17 04:03:06 PM
Much less Derpy article on the subject:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/green-tech/advanced-cars/loopy-no -i ts-hyperloopy

IEEE Spectrum >> Wired >> CNN
 
2013-07-17 06:39:03 PM

Ambitwistor: DamnYankees: And what if the tube ruptures?

People are mostly responding to this as a safety question, but from a more operational perspective, a rupture will shut down the whole system every time it happens, until someone can get out and repair it.  And can you imagine guarding 3000 miles of tube against intentional attacks?


How is this any different from guarding the thousands of bridges we have in this country?
 
2013-07-17 10:00:53 PM

Hollie Maea: Hector Remarkable: It's more stupid than crazy.

I love you too.

/It may be crazy, but it isn't stupid.


Alright, alright, let's just say it's equal parts stupid and crazy.

It is nice to be loved though.
 
2013-07-17 11:16:22 PM

Hector Remarkable: Hollie Maea: Hector Remarkable: It's more stupid than crazy.

I love you too.

/It may be crazy, but it isn't stupid.

Alright, alright, let's just say it's equal parts stupid and crazy.

It is nice to be loved though.


Shouldn't you be in the flying car thread whining about how "they" haven't supplied us with them yet? Run along, now.
 
2013-07-18 10:22:27 AM

Hollie Maea: retarded: Bunch of pessimists up in here.

God, that's for sure.  It seems like the national motto is "that'll never work".  Probably no conincidence that the national activity is whining about how "they" haven't yet provided us with flying cars.


Yeah, stupid universe and its physical and chemical limits. Just keep trying! We've plucked all the low-hanging fruit, what do you expect? That the extraction of energy and progress will just keep going forever into the future?

TelemonianAjax: And thanks for the tip on the link. We've coasted for the better part of a century on old infrastructure models, and we've learned a lot since Ike's day. It's time to start using that knowledge. I'm firmly of the opinion that the only options left to us are to literally rebuild the systems we know we'll need in the next 100 years.


The answer isn't bigger and better steam engines. We have to change our social model, of what it even means to live in society. Some people never grow up and think that it just means bigger and better cars, planes, trains, what have yous so we can keep working more and more just to eat and have a house.

Giant scale '60s stye mega engineering is all great fun, but the future of massive energy use to shuffle people around is not very bright.

We don't even have the Concorde anymore.

But I guess when you don't even have something physical, not a single bolt, then it's easy to dream about how a certain technology will change the world.

Until the rubber hits the road so to speak.

Only time will tell, but I'm betting on "never" for this particular fever-dream.
 
Displayed 178 of 178 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report