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(Think Progress)   Miami finalizes plan to eliminate homelessness   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 246
    More: Florida, Miami, homeless, Miami Police, National Coalition Party, business districts  
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14523 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jul 2013 at 9:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-16 11:06:52 PM
4.bp.blogspot.com

For Florida...
 
2013-07-16 11:06:54 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Big_Doofus: Yeah, those charming homeless. They're super awesome!

I have a number of hard-working homeless friends and comrades. Being smart and hard-working is not, by any means, a guaranteed path off the street. If you find yourself homeless, it's hard as balls to get back into steady housing and employment, even here in - ha! - "Freeatle", and even if you have a strong group of people around you willing and able to help. But, hey, judge away.


Can I judge you for using the word "comrades" without a hint of irony? OK, good. Thanks. I will.
 
2013-07-16 11:08:14 PM
 
2013-07-16 11:09:34 PM

skullkrusher: Can I judge you for using the word "comrades" without a hint of irony? OK, good. Thanks. I will.


The comedic stylings of skullkrusher, ladies and gentlemen! Please give a round of applause! Remember to tip your waitress!
 
2013-07-16 11:11:17 PM
Omfg, his campaign website reads like it was written by a second grader:

http://www.marcsarnoff.com/

My name is Marc David Sarnoff and I was first elected City Commissioner for Miami's District 2 on November 21, 2006. The term was for one year, finishing out the former commissioner's term, which would have ended November 2007. The next election for this office was November 2007, which I also won. I am running for re-election in November for City Commissioner for Miami's District 2.

...

...As you may know, Umoja is no longer there due to a fire caused by a candle; fortunately, no one was injured. Freedom of speech and the freedom of assembly must be vigilantly guarded by elected officials. Citizens must be afforded the right to assemble for very practical and legitimate reasons; .... a few come to mind .... such things as high taxes, overdevelopment, and quality of life issues. I convinced the City this would be strenuously opposed by District 2, and the City, to its credit, stopped the creation of the anti-assembly ordinance.


...

My favorite food is pizza.  Last year I went to Disneyland and saw Mickey Mouse.  I had fun and my sister got stung by a bee and cried all the way home.  When I got home mom bought me a bike.
 
2013-07-16 11:12:01 PM
Make it illegal to be homeless, fine, but provide them all with the option of free shelter and food.  I don't think anyone has a right to misuse public property by living on the street, but if they have no choice it is only right to help them out.
 
2013-07-16 11:12:03 PM

Capo Del Bandito: lack of warmth: Here is an idea, if you have the room and food to spare in the jail then go ahead and let the homeless have a hot and a cot.  However, lets not bother with the booking and paperwork.

/one night one meal, see you later Otis

For someone named 'lack of warmth' you seem awfully idealistic and such for taking care of people not contributing to society.


Well, we take care of children before they can contribute to society and we take care of old folks well after they stop contributing to society, but some folks have a problem with taking care of someone whose life is somewhere in the middle of the first two groups just because they can't find a place in society.

My point was they could just skip the paperwork, because the end result will still be the same.

/I'm complicated
//or crazy, either way it starts with a C.
 
2013-07-16 11:19:23 PM

GardenWeasel: Once again... B5 WAS NOT A HOW-TO MANUAL

[dic.academic.ru image 477x351]


Here you go...

lh3.googleusercontent.com
 
2013-07-16 11:20:12 PM

hubiestubert: GardenWeasel: Once again... B5 WAS NOT A HOW-TO MANUAL

[dic.academic.ru image 477x351]

Here you go...

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 640x512]


I'm fond of the Snow Crash one, but that's pretty good too.
 
2013-07-16 11:20:32 PM
Sadly, I looked at the picture in the link and I felt more sorry for the dog than the pan-handler.  Not because I lack empathy, but because the homeless "problem" often stems from people who do not want to be part of society.  Obviously there are those who have just been on the wrong side of fortune, but how do we distinguish these less fortunate from those that choose to be "feral humans?"  Ultimately, how do we as a society solve this problem?

While I do not think jailing the homeless is in any way a "solution," but isn't creating mental institutions to house these individuals somewhat the same "solution?"
 
2013-07-16 11:20:49 PM

tfresh: [i1.ytimg.com image 480x360]

EXECUTE THE HOMELESS!!!!


Came for this, leaving satisfied.
 
2013-07-16 11:24:31 PM
Socialism, how does it work?
 
2013-07-16 11:25:01 PM

jpo2269: While I do not think jailing the homeless is in any way a "solution," but isn't creating mental institutions to house these individuals somewhat the same "solution?"


Psychiatric hospitals are WAY nicer than prisons.

/not "nice" mind you, "nicer"
//yes, I have been in both
///yes, I am using an alt right now so no one knows who the fark I really am
 
2013-07-16 11:25:33 PM
Yes, because what Miami needs is MOAR folks in jail, because that will just fix the city's budget problems in a trice, right?

Have they just considered bussing the homeless to someplace outside of Dade County. Maybe just over the line, so that someone else has to take care of them? That's how Northampton takes care of a lot of their homeless problems, by dumping them on Holyoke. Fixes up the budget problems, and the buskers who do have homes like the lack of competition...
 
2013-07-16 11:30:56 PM
soylent green?
DNRTFA
 
2013-07-16 11:35:37 PM

Victoly: Capo Del Bandito: Can't we just eat the homeless?

That could be considered 'green' right?

Soylently!


Niiiiice.
 
2013-07-16 11:36:52 PM
The Supreme Court says homeless people can own property. My guess is that they are even more likely let them eat in public, especially since the "homed" are allowed to eat in public. And a whole lot of seniors doze in the sun, so I can't see the convicted-of-sleeping thing is going to work, either.
 
2013-07-16 11:38:39 PM
Obamasaurus,

While I would not disagree with you about psychiatric hospitals being "nicer" than prisons, but for the percentage of homeless that are that way because of a choice, when or how will they leave?  What about the percentage of homeless that are such because of hard luck?  Would it be beneficial to them to house them in a psychiatric hospital?

Granted, this is obviously a very complex situation, but there has to be a some level of a solution to be able to help those that just need a hand up and those that need psychiatric help, if for no other reason than to save the dogs....

j/k
 
2013-07-16 11:39:41 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: BarkingUnicorn: The most visible, irritating ones are. That's the problem.

Christians? Or the poor?

For Christians, I agree.

For the poor, that image is a Reagenesque fantasy.


Both can be highly visible and highly irritating.

The idle poor we were discussing are most visible of the poor, naturally; a person who's doing nothing while others are busy stands out.  They cause more irritation than the working poor because misery loves company.  "I'm going back to a shiatty  job with an asshole boss and this bum's getting money for free."

No, they don't know how the bum lives.  But that's how it looks, and that's why taxpayers don't want to see the idle poor.
 
2013-07-16 11:40:06 PM

TommyDeuce: iheartscotch: Sounds like a Fine ol' solution...

/ I bet they will nazi that coming...

It's simply a modest proposal.


fc09.deviantart.net
 
2013-07-16 11:42:43 PM

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: halB: One of the few things holding it back is these consistent homeless people who are really messed up in the head.

So please keep this in mind when talking about this problem.

Yup, jail will fix that. Everyone that goes to the pokey comes out all shiny and new, ready to be productive members of society. That's why recidivism is 0% these days, and our jails and prisons are near-empty.



Charity begins at home. Invite them into your home. Adopt a mentally ill homeless person today!
 
2013-07-16 11:43:17 PM

Atomic Spunk: grimlock1972: hey geniuses its gonna cost you more to jail them then to get them in a homeless shelter.

True, but it's not always that simple. Not sure about Miami, but in Honolulu, we have excess unused bed space in many shelters for 2 main reasons:

1. Many of our homeless are mentally ill and are leery of going to shelters.
2. Shelters don't allow drug and alcohol use, and have rules about appropriate behavior, so many of the homeless would rather continue to live on the street than follow the rules.

The homeless can't be forced into the shelters so they live in small gatherings in public places.


I agree its not often that simple but in general its a waste of money to jail them.
 
2013-07-16 11:45:19 PM
"As though life weren't already difficult enough for people who can't afford regular housing, they could soon find themselves thrown in jail and their possessions confiscated if they're caught engaging in certain everyday activities in public. "

Didn't the US Supreme Court recently rule that a hobo's stuff is a hobo's stuff, and it cannot be confiscated unless it's contraband?
 
2013-07-16 11:46:58 PM

BarkingUnicorn: The idle poor we were discussing are most visible of the poor, naturally; a person who's doing nothing while others are busy stands out.


Such as who?
 
2013-07-16 11:47:44 PM
i can tell you that downtown miami is severely severely underdeveloped and there are a lot of developers looking at downtown as the next IT spot as the surrounding little neighborhoods are booming with new businesses, housing, parks, museums etc. downtown is desolate craphole with hundreds of zombie bums walking around smelling like the year 1300.
 
2013-07-16 11:51:29 PM

bostonowns: i can tell you that downtown miami is severely severely underdeveloped and there are a lot of developers looking at downtown as the next IT spot as the surrounding little neighborhoods are booming with new businesses, housing, parks, museums etc. downtown is desolate craphole with hundreds of zombie bums walking around smelling like the year 1300.


southparkstudios-intl.mtvnimages.com
 
2013-07-16 11:51:36 PM

Capo Del Bandito: The band members could dress up in raggity clothing and sing about dumpster dining


Dumpster Love
 
2013-07-16 11:53:33 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: BarkingUnicorn: The idle poor we were discussing are most visible of the poor, naturally; a person who's doing nothing while others are busy stands out.

Such as who?


Any Farker.
 
2013-07-16 11:57:57 PM

Capo Del Bandito: Russ1642: Send them to jail where they get three squares a day, a bed at night, and a beating only once a week.

You forgot the rape.

Lots of rape.


A veritable land of rape and honey.
 
2013-07-17 12:05:43 AM
They caught the last poor man
On a poor man's vacation
They cuffed him and confiscated his stuff
They dragged his black ass down to the station
And said, ok, the streets are safe now
All your pretty white children can come out and see spot run
And they came out of their houses
And they looked around
But they didn't see no one

My country 'tis of thee
To take swings at each other on the talkshow tv
Why don't you just go ahead and turn off the sun
'cause we'll never live long enough
To undo everything they've done to you
Undo everything they've done to you
 
2013-07-17 12:07:21 AM
You know what would make the streets a lot safer? If we threw everyone in jail. Everyone. You, me, children, grandparents, the president, everyone.

No people on the street = no crime.
 
2013-07-17 12:08:40 AM

skullkrusher: Did you know it is illegal to spit on the sidewalk in NYC?



If you spit in the NY subway, it's a 50 dollar fine. Vomiting is free, man.

t2.gstatic.com
 
2013-07-17 12:10:05 AM
Leave it to my home state of Arizona to make this a crime way before Florida.  Phoenix specifically uses a law against "urban camping" to clean the homeless off the streets:

"Urban Camping": You may not camp in any park, preserve, building, parking lot or other land that belongs tot he City of Phoenix, unless you have a permit from the city Department of Parks and Recreation. The following activities can be considered "camping":
• Sleeping
• Making preparations to sleep or laying down bedding
• Storing belongings
• Pitching a tent or parking a vehicle to sleep in
• Making a fire
• Cooking
• Digging or breaking ground.

Sit/Lie Law:You may not sit, lie or sleep on a public street,sidewalk or alley, except because of a physical emergency or to receive medical attention.

So if I read that right you can be arrested for sitting down on a park bench.  Nice....
 
2013-07-17 12:12:03 AM
She's just like you and me
But she's homeless, she's homeless
As she stands there singing for money.

La da dee la dee da
La da dee la dee da
La da dee la dee da
La da dee la dee da
La da dee la dee da
La da dee la dee da
 
2013-07-17 12:17:16 AM

spaten: They are just following California...

http://www.cityprojectca.org/ourwork/beachaccess.html

/The liberal NIMBYS


Uh... "but California" is never an excuse for anything ever.  CA has some of the worst laws in the US hands down, even people in CA will tell you that.
 
2013-07-17 12:25:38 AM
I wonder
Where she goes
When the night falls
What thunder
Has made us
Deaf to her calls?
 
2013-07-17 12:37:08 AM
You know, we could just give them housing. Not shelters with strict rules where they wake everyone up at 6 am, not prison cells, just regular rooms. Like the kind people with money live in.

Where they've done that, the homeless have fewer health problems (the reduction in medical costs alone makes it worth it), don't get in trouble with the law for stupid reasons, and as a bonus to everyone they aren't shiatting in parks and alleys.

I know I sound radical. To be REALLY radical, I suggest we extend a right to housing to everyone in the US.
 
2013-07-17 12:39:56 AM

adamatari: You know, we could just give them housing. Not shelters with strict rules where they wake everyone up at 6 am, not prison cells, just regular rooms. Like the kind people with money live in.

Where they've done that, the homeless have fewer health problems (the reduction in medical costs alone makes it worth it), don't get in trouble with the law for stupid reasons, and as a bonus to everyone they aren't shiatting in parks and alleys.

I know I sound radical. To be REALLY radical, I suggest we extend a right to housing to everyone in the US.


It's sensible, expands opportunity in all respects, would be less expensive than the ongoing war on the homeless, but it's not punitive and evil. Still, you have my sword.
 
2013-07-17 12:45:11 AM

adamatari: You know, we could just give them housing. Not shelters with strict rules where they wake everyone up at 6 am, not prison cells, just regular rooms. Like the kind people with money live in.

Where they've done that, the homeless have fewer health problems (the reduction in medical costs alone makes it worth it), don't get in trouble with the law for stupid reasons, and as a bonus to everyone they aren't shiatting in parks and alleys.

I know I sound radical. To be REALLY radical, I suggest we extend a right to housing to everyone in the US.


Why do you hate the freedom that comes from predatory capitalism?!


/Seriously, though, that's an excellent idea.
 
2013-07-17 12:46:43 AM

Jacob_Roberson: Homeless: [i.imgur.com image 512x525]
Florida: [i.imgur.com image 361x377]


help out an old 49er
/fell down a shaft...
 
2013-07-17 12:53:59 AM

A Dark Evil Omen: adamatari: You know, we could just give them housing. Not shelters with strict rules where they wake everyone up at 6 am, not prison cells, just regular rooms. Like the kind people with money live in.

Where they've done that, the homeless have fewer health problems (the reduction in medical costs alone makes it worth it), don't get in trouble with the law for stupid reasons, and as a bonus to everyone they aren't shiatting in parks and alleys.

I know I sound radical. To be REALLY radical, I suggest we extend a right to housing to everyone in the US.

It's sensible, expands opportunity in all respects, would be less expensive than the ongoing war on the homeless, but it's not punitive and evil. Still, you have my sword.


Everyone already HAS a right to housing. You have the right to whatever housing you can afford. What you really mean is: Let's make a house available to everyone in the US. As in: give everyone who hasn't already got a house whatever domicile is readily available. And it might not be a bad idea--if only so much else didn't go along with mere possession of four walls and a roof. Water, power, sewage, the neighbors...it's not merely as simple as "put the homeless in homes."
 
2013-07-17 12:54:14 AM
How much did the for-profit prison complex donate to his campaign?
 
2013-07-17 12:55:35 AM
So let me get this straight...

Spending money to help homeless people become productive, tax-paying members of society, is bad.
Spending even more money to send these people through the criminal justice system, then pay for their complete care for however long their incarceration lasts, is good.

Am I understanding this correctly?

/sigh
 
2013-07-17 01:00:14 AM

Trayal: So let me get this straight...

Spending money to help homeless people become productive, tax-paying members of society, is bad.
Spending even more money to send these people through the criminal justice system, then pay for their complete care for however long their incarceration lasts, is good.

Am I understanding this correctly?

/sigh


Well, in fairness, it's who gets the money. If folks are incarcerated, then that means the money goes to cops, to lawyers, to prison guards, and the prisons, often run for profit. If folks simply become taxpayers, they might actually want to spend that money on something that isn't in the interests of those who are paying for this sort of legislation to get in the pipe.

The prison lobby at this point is about creating more need for their services, not less. If it means MOAR money on state and Federal budgets so be it, because the money is coming from taxpayers, and the folks who are advocating these sorts of measures look upon the taxpayers as a vast sea to grift, and to do it entirely legally...
 
2013-07-17 01:06:04 AM
Just give the homeless some Marlins tickets, the place was paid for by the taxpayers if I am correct.  I am sure they have plenty of food left over as well.
 
2013-07-17 01:19:02 AM

Gyrfalcon: A Dark Evil Omen: adamatari: You know, we could just give them housing. Not shelters with strict rules where they wake everyone up at 6 am, not prison cells, just regular rooms. Like the kind people with money live in.

Where they've done that, the homeless have fewer health problems (the reduction in medical costs alone makes it worth it), don't get in trouble with the law for stupid reasons, and as a bonus to everyone they aren't shiatting in parks and alleys.

I know I sound radical. To be REALLY radical, I suggest we extend a right to housing to everyone in the US.

It's sensible, expands opportunity in all respects, would be less expensive than the ongoing war on the homeless, but it's not punitive and evil. Still, you have my sword.

Everyone already HAS a right to housing. You have the right to whatever housing you can afford. What you really mean is: Let's make a house available to everyone in the US. As in: give everyone who hasn't already got a house whatever domicile is readily available. And it might not be a bad idea--if only so much else didn't go along with mere possession of four walls and a roof. Water, power, sewage, the neighbors...it's not merely as simple as "put the homeless in homes."


Where I grew up, water, power, and sewage were largely run by the town/state.  These basic amenities don't need to be private and they could be provided through means other than "pay this bill."  Taxes, for instance.  I mean, what good does it do to shut off someone's water/power simply because they're too poor to pay it?  That doesn't in any way help them get better--it just punishes them for being poor.

The real "problem" here is that we're giving houses to people who don't "deserve" them.  We'd drown in the moral outrage if we ever actually did this.

However, a society that has homeless people and empty houses is a broken society.
 
2013-07-17 01:22:24 AM

skullkrusher: bunner: Godwin made a pithy remark.  Not a law.  If we actually go smiling and pissing our pants on command into the Fourth Reich because noticing would be unfashionable, we f*cking well deserve such.

"They want to modify the definition of  "life-sustaining activities"  to exclude starting fires to cook meals in public areas, blocking sidewalks, littering, relieving themselves in public and lewd conduct.
The city also wants to give police authority to arrest people who refuse to go to a shelter on three occasions within a 180 day period and to confiscate their belongings. The city also asked the judge to exclude sexual predators from the provisions of the Pottinger settlement."

They want to make it illegal for homeless people to not obey the laws the rest of us have to regarding starting fires in public, littering, shiatting in public and jacking off on the streetcorner. Yep, just like the Nazis.


I think the hardest one to deal with when homeless is likely the rule against pissing/pooping. Not many public spaces have 24hr free bathrooms, and if you wake up in the middle of the night and need to drop a deuce, it's happening no matter what the city code might say.

If a cop really wants to bring a homeless dude in, all they need to do is watch and wait. Eventually everyone takes a crap.
 
2013-07-17 01:51:46 AM
jaylectricity
If you have me highlighted, I'll have to assume you know I'm joking. I'm so right, I'm left.

I guessed that but "refuse to go to the shelter" seemed like a phrase that would be avoided even if trolling.
 
2013-07-17 01:58:45 AM

Trayal: So let me get this straight...

Spending money to help homeless people become productive, tax-paying members of society, is bad.
Spending even more money to send these people through the criminal justice system, then pay for their complete care for however long their incarceration lasts, is good.

Am I understanding this correctly?

/sigh



The visible homeless (e.g. urban campers) are probably the hardest to treat using roving outreach efforts simply because their issues are far more severe and their desire to utilize social services is much lower & less consistent than other homeless people.  Typically avoiding shelters so they can continue using drugs and drinking alcohol, not to mention staying off their psychological medication.  Frankly driving by and giving them food, some cash, some medication, or some counseling just perpetuates the problem since it's not sustained (can't be since they don't maintain fixed locations) and it leaves them in the same environment that feeds into their problems.  For this type of homeless custodial confinement combined (like minimum security white collar prison) with treatment and counseling is really the best option to tackle this.  Feeding or paying panhandlers isn't helping at all.
 
2013-07-17 02:05:56 AM

Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?


Everyone that murders or violates other people IS a Christian by definition, you clearly have not read the bible.

/Really read the Bible
//Psychopaths all of them all theists 100% why we are here now in this stupid world
///They are why we can't have nice things.
////.
//Don't NTRTFA all theists should be eliminated, hitler, stalin, mao, bush, reagan, LBJ, trueman all of them
 
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