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(Think Progress)   Miami finalizes plan to eliminate homelessness   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 235
    More: Florida, Miami, homeless, Miami Police, National Coalition Party, business districts  
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14527 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jul 2013 at 9:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



235 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-07-16 08:14:05 PM  
I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?
 
2013-07-16 08:34:55 PM  
Gee when I read the Headline I was wondering if they were going to give the  homeless hoodies and Zimmerman ammo, but then I read the  article
 
2013-07-16 08:41:48 PM  
Ah, yes.  The land of the free, where we jail a higher percentage of our population than anybody else.

Amazing how the issue of taxpayer cost-- direct and indirect-- almost never comes up when politicians talk about locking people more up.
 
2013-07-16 08:46:39 PM  
the number of people living on the streets has dropped from approx. 6000 to 351

They went from an approximate number of homeless people to an oddly specific number. That's telling you they only need to arrest the 351 known homeless people who refuse to go to the shelter.
 
2013-07-16 08:48:34 PM  
The T4 program is slowly entering the justice system again.
 
2013-07-16 08:56:25 PM  
Any more of this sort of crap and I'll unveil my final solution to the conservative question.

/mandatory gay marriage
 
2013-07-16 09:08:43 PM  

Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?


Of course he does.  After all if those people would just live and walk beside lord like he does they wouldn't be homeless.
 
2013-07-16 09:15:17 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: Any more of this sort of crap and I'll unveil my final solution to the conservative question.

/mandatory gay marriage


can i marry Mr. Hat?

www.comedycentral.com
 
2013-07-16 09:16:11 PM  
Sounds like a Fine ol' solution...

/ I bet they will nazi that coming...
 
2013-07-16 09:17:02 PM  

Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?


They always do.
 
2013-07-16 09:17:29 PM  
Yay.  A skip and a jump from debtor's prisons.  Hurray America!

You know what would fix this?  Tax cuts for the wealthy.
 
2013-07-16 09:17:53 PM  
To zee camps.
 
2013-07-16 09:18:09 PM  
i41.tinypic.com
 
2013-07-16 09:19:09 PM  
Before anybody calls this a war on poor people, I should point out that rich people also aren't allowed to sleep under bridges or on park benches.
 
2013-07-16 09:19:14 PM  
A few points:

Miami is a loose term for all of Miami-Dade County.

Miami is a very small city within Miami-Dade County with a small population, mainly businesses and crack heads. It's generally been an incredibly shiatty place to even go, but it has been experiencing a renessaince revival with the birth of new condos and an influx of people actually living down town.  One of the few things holding it back is these consistent homeless people who are really messed up in the head.

So please keep this in mind when talking about this problem.
 
2013-07-16 09:20:05 PM  
Yup this totally sounds fiscally responsible.
 
2013-07-16 09:20:06 PM  

Iron Felix: To zee camps.


But, I'm le tired!
 
2013-07-16 09:20:45 PM  
Once again... B5 WAS NOT A HOW-TO MANUAL

dic.academic.ru
 
2013-07-16 09:20:56 PM  

Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?


When you consider there are as many biblical passages sanctioning this sort of thing as there are condemning it, I'm sure he's able to cherry pick enough material to justify the usual smug right wing christian arrogance.
 
2013-07-16 09:22:04 PM  
You messed up the headline. Should be "Miami finalizes solution to eliminate homelessness "
 
2013-07-16 09:23:02 PM  
If these poor people didn't want to go to jail, they should have chosen not to be born with debilitating mental illnesses.
 
2013-07-16 09:23:11 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: [i41.tinypic.com image 425x239]


out-farkin-standing.
 
2013-07-16 09:23:35 PM  

jaylectricity: the number of people living on the streets has dropped from approx. 6000 to 351

They went from an approximate number of homeless people to an oddly specific number. That's telling you they only need to arrest the 351 known homeless people who refuse to go to the shelter.


The aggressive efforts to attach radio collars and ear tags to them early on has really paid off.
 
2013-07-16 09:25:31 PM  
Can't they just follow homeless people around, harass them, and then pick a fight? If the homeless people start winning the fight, they can shoot em. Isn't that how it works in Florida?
 
2013-07-16 09:26:34 PM  

iheartscotch: Sounds like a Fine ol' solution...

/ I bet they will nazi that coming...


It's simply a modest proposal.
 
2013-07-16 09:26:49 PM  

Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?


Either Christians have to admit Jesus was wrong when he advocated helping the less fortunate, or they have to admit he was right and they just don't want to.

FTFA: Sarnoff argues that homeless people in the downtown business district are a "chronic problem." Indeed, as the Miami Herald points out, "Most local shelters are at capacity, meaning police can do little to punish the homeless who urinate in the street or light cooking fires in public parks." Instead of vying for more funding to support the hundreds of homeless people who reside in Miami, Sarnoff's solution is to jail them for living on the streets.

Yes, obviously these folks need punishment. Maybe a day or three in county will teach them to piss/shiat in their pants and eat raw food. That'll show them.

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-16 09:26:57 PM  
 
2013-07-16 09:27:12 PM  
Yeah, this worked so well in victorian England.

It's the "Are there no prisons? Are there no work houses?" aproach to social services. It keeps the poor properly downtrotten and humiliated.
No wonder the GOP likes, Becaurse it will never happen to them!  ///sarkasm
 
2013-07-16 09:27:41 PM  

Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?


He probably is a good Christian, christianity is not synonymous with communism you know. Charity is what is done with private dollars, not tax dollars. You get no credit from god for robbing peter to give to paul.
 
2013-07-16 09:28:17 PM  
So does this also mean no more sidewalk hot dog or ice cream vendors in Miami?
 
2013-07-16 09:28:27 PM  
you could do the San Francisco model.

step 1. pay them off, let them shiat on the streets.
step 2. ???
step 3. profit!
 
2013-07-16 09:29:07 PM  
We should grind up the homeless in meat grinders and feed them to the other homeless people. Keep doing this until we're left with just one really fat homeless guy. Then we roll that fat homeless guy into a warehouse in the middle of nowhere. Voila! Problem solved.
 
2013-07-16 09:29:11 PM  
Full implementation of Obama death panels, amirite?
 
2013-07-16 09:29:21 PM  
So they are wanting to provide the homeless with 3 meals a day, shower and bathroom facilities, clean clothes, and a nice dry place to sleep? Awesome!
 
2013-07-16 09:29:47 PM  
Lebron wants to increase his property value.
 
2013-07-16 09:29:50 PM  

Riche: Ah, yes.  The land of the free, where we jail a higher percentage of our population than anybody else.

Amazing how the issue of taxpayer cost-- direct and indirect-- almost never comes up when politicians talk about locking people more up.


They are paying for all the homeless one way or another already, if they can convince more homeless to move on to some other city their problems are solved, at least for them, then those displaced homeless become our problem.
 
2013-07-16 09:30:07 PM  
I'm surprised he didn't suggest forced work camps or chain gangs for them
 
2013-07-16 09:30:37 PM  

Z1P2: Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?

He probably is a good Christian, christianity is not synonymous with communism you know. Charity is what is done with private dollars, not tax dollars. You get no credit from god for robbing peter to give to paul.


1/10...I was going to say nice try, but I won't even give you that.
 
2013-07-16 09:30:42 PM  
To be fair, they elected this man to be their governor:

wpcontent.answcdn.com

So why is anyone surprised?
 
2013-07-16 09:31:22 PM  
In the 15 years since Pottinger, the number of people living on the streets has dropped from approximately 6,000 to 351, largely due to more shelters and support.

Miami's headcount of homeless is an exact number, and not an approximated estimate.  Clearly, that program is completely incapable of handling the homeless problem.
 
2013-07-16 09:31:26 PM  

halB: One of the few things holding it back is these consistent homeless people who are really messed up in the head.

So please keep this in mind when talking about this problem.


Yup, jail will fix that. Everyone that goes to the pokey comes out all shiny and new, ready to be productive members of society. That's why recidivism is 0% these days, and our jails and prisons are near-empty.
 
2013-07-16 09:32:14 PM  
The Right Wing has only two answers to any problem:

1. Violence/more guns
2. Make it illegal so we can put them in jail
 
2013-07-16 09:32:25 PM  
On the one hand, trying to penalize people for sleeping or cooking food is bullcrap.

On the other hand, I can understand how the police might get tired of not being able to arrest the same homeless dude who keeps taking a crap in the middle of the alley behind their favorite late-night eats.
 
2013-07-16 09:32:41 PM  
Sounds like big city fascist liberal NIMBYS to me.... See Santa Monica/Dana Point...
 
2013-07-16 09:33:07 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: So they are wanting to provide the homeless with 3 meals a day, shower and bathroom facilities, clean clothes, and a nice dry place to sleep? Awesome!


And more than likely endless beatings and abuse from other inmates, not to mention the loss of freedom.
 
2013-07-16 09:33:52 PM  
Oddly enough, I have no problem with laws against pooping on the sidewalk and starting fires in public parks.
 
2013-07-16 09:34:46 PM  
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

/oblig
 
2013-07-16 09:35:10 PM  
Have Zimmerman shoot them all?
 
2013-07-16 09:35:41 PM  

1000 Ways to Dye: I should point out that rich people also aren't allowed to sleep under bridges or on park benches.


I'll bet they can drop a load wherever they please.
 
2013-07-16 09:35:43 PM  

iheartscotch: Iron Felix: To zee camps.

But, I'm le tired!


Well have a nap....THEN ARREST ZE HOMELESS!
 
2013-07-16 09:35:53 PM  

sycraft: You messed up the headline. Should be "Miami finalizes solution to eliminate homelessness "


I know.  I read it a few times because that was so obvious I thought I was missing it.
 
2013-07-16 09:36:30 PM  
Maybe if we can bring back public mental health we can put these narcissistic personality disorder sufferers away before they throw more people in jail.

Also, we could take care of the homeless people who have mental problems.

See, solve two problems at once.
 
2013-07-16 09:37:02 PM  
So, these are the republican camps?

The totally cool ones?

Not the evil ones they keep saying FEMA builds?

Or right, projection and all that
 
2013-07-16 09:37:09 PM  

Z1P2: Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?

He probably is a good Christian, christianity is not synonymous with communism you know. Charity is what is done with private dollars, not tax dollars. You get no credit from god for robbing peter to give to paul.


He is giving them the hours and a cot with taxpayer money, that sure as shi at sounds like communism to me. Burn him!
 
2013-07-16 09:37:24 PM  
Most of the chronically homeless are severely mentally ill and won't go to shelters. I know, I worked at a shelter for several years.  Unfortunately, sometimes it takes arrest to protect some of these folks.

We need more facilities for the severely mentally ill and then we need a way to keep them in these facilities even if they don't want to be there.
 
2013-07-16 09:37:39 PM  

Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?


With a name like that, my wager is he's highly hebraic.
 
2013-07-16 09:37:49 PM  
*three hots got damnit!
 
2013-07-16 09:38:21 PM  

Big_Doofus: Oddly enough, I have no problem with laws against pooping on the sidewalk and starting fires in public parks.


big smile, Hitler!!!!1!!!!11!
 
2013-07-16 09:38:48 PM  
Headline:  Miami Considers Jailing Homeless People For Eating, Sleeping In Public.

Actual story: Despite the program's success, one Miami City Commissioner wants to back out of the deal and resume arresting homeless people for living on the streets.

Talk about your sensationalist headline.
 
2013-07-16 09:39:57 PM  

Z1P2: Charity is what is done with private dollars, not tax dollars.


Yes.
 
2013-07-16 09:40:01 PM  

Granny_Panties: Can't they just follow homeless people around, harass them, and then pick a fight? If the homeless people start winning the fight, they can shoot em. Isn't that how it works in Florida?


Spadassinicide

My new favorite word.
 
2013-07-16 09:40:51 PM  

heinekenftw: To be fair, they elected this man to be their governor:

[wpcontent.answcdn.com image 300x212]

So why is anyone surprised?


I still say he looks more like Enzyte Bob:

i165.photobucket.com

lh3.ggpht.com
 
2013-07-16 09:41:15 PM  
Specifically, Sarnoff and his allies on the City Commission have hired a law firm to try to modify the agreement so police can arrest anyone who blocks a sidewalk, cooks a meal in a public area using a fire, litters, urinates or defecates in public, or engages in lewd conduct, rather than offering those folks a bed to sleep.

So basically, police can arrest anyone in Miami?
 
2013-07-16 09:42:44 PM  

halB: A few points:

Miami is a loose term for all of Miami-Dade County.

Miami is a very small city within Miami-Dade County with a small population, mainly businesses and crack heads. It's generally been an incredibly shiatty place to even go, but it has been experiencing a renessaince revival with the birth of new condos and an influx of people actually living down town.  One of the few things holding it back is these consistent homeless people who are really messed up in the head.

So please keep this in mind when talking about this problem.




You're right. Revitalizing the downtown area into a snobbish shopping center filled with bistros and boutique shops outweighs the civil rights of American citizens. Miami is a shiathole in spite of the homeless, not because of the homeless
 
2013-07-16 09:43:38 PM  

miss diminutive: iheartscotch: Iron Felix: To zee camps.

But, I'm le tired!

Well have a nap....THEN ARREST ZE HOMELESS!


WTF, mate?
 
2013-07-16 09:44:08 PM  
i1.ytimg.com

EXECUTE THE HOMELESS!!!!
 
2013-07-16 09:44:53 PM  
Can't we just eat the homeless?

That could be considered 'green' right?
 
2013-07-16 09:45:52 PM  
Here is an idea, if you have the room and food to spare in the jail then go ahead and let the homeless have a hot and a cot.  However, lets not bother with the booking and paperwork.

/one night one meal, see you later Otis
 
2013-07-16 09:46:04 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Snapper Carr: Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?

When you consider there are as many biblical passages sanctioning this sort of thing as there are condemning it, I'm sure he's able to cherry pick enough material to justify the usual smug right wing christian arrogance.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x163]


You need a Biblical citation for being charitable to the poor? Are you f*cking retarded?
 
2013-07-16 09:47:29 PM  

Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?


Its irrelevant, they made it illegal to arrest homeless and now they just want to make it legal again since the shelters are too full.
 
2013-07-16 09:47:53 PM  
Send them to jail where they get three squares a day, a bed at night, and a beating only once a week.
 
2013-07-16 09:48:05 PM  

lack of warmth: Here is an idea, if you have the room and food to spare in the jail then go ahead and let the homeless have a hot and a cot.  However, lets not bother with the booking and paperwork.

/one night one meal, see you later Otis


For someone named 'lack of warmth' you seem awfully idealistic and such for taking care of people not contributing to society.
 
2013-07-16 09:48:25 PM  
Get a gun and stand, sleep and beg your ground homeless!
 
2013-07-16 09:49:03 PM  

Russ1642: Send them to jail where they get three squares a day, a bed at night, and a beating only once a week.


You forgot the rape.

Lots of rape.
 
2013-07-16 09:49:08 PM  
*glances at tag*


*facepalm*

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-07-16 09:49:44 PM  

Riche: Ah, yes.  The land of the free, where we jail a higher percentage of our population than anybody else.

Amazing how the issue of taxpayer cost-- direct and indirect-- almost never comes up when politicians talk about locking people more up.


Increasingly, being poor is a crime in America. If you're working poor, you're penalized for a wide variety of things that are ignored when done by rich people - your job is to continue paying the rich folks, and you're allowed to go about it if you don't bother them unduly. If you're destitute, just the very state of being destitute means that just about anything you do to stay alive is considered a crime - after all, you're not paying the rich anything at that point, and your very existence bothers them.

That's why this commissioner is pushing, once again, to criminalize destitution. Some of his rich friends are bothered by the destitute, and so they've pushed their mouthpiece to the fore.
 
2013-07-16 09:49:46 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: Russ1642: Send them to jail where they get three squares a day, a bed at night, and a beating only once a week.

You forgot the rape.

Lots of rape.


Rape the Homeless is a great name for an album.
 
2013-07-16 09:50:40 PM  

halB: A few points:

Miami is a loose term for all of Miami-Dade County.

Miami is a very small city within Miami-Dade County with a small population, mainly businesses and crack heads. It's generally been an incredibly shiatty place to even go, but it has been experiencing a renessaince revival with the birth of new condos and an influx of people actually living down town.  One of the few things holding it back is these consistent homeless people who are really messed up in the head.

So please keep this in mind when talking about this problem.


one little fender bender, one mis-step on a staircase and you too may become one of the "consistent homeless people who are really messed up in the head"
 
2013-07-16 09:50:42 PM  
Don't they have a lot of for-profit jails down there?
 
2013-07-16 09:50:47 PM  
They are just following California...

http://www.cityprojectca.org/ourwork/beachaccess.html

/The liberal NIMBYS
 
2013-07-16 09:51:12 PM  

bdub77: Capo Del Bandito: Russ1642: Send them to jail where they get three squares a day, a bed at night, and a beating only once a week.

You forgot the rape.

Lots of rape.

Rape the Homeless is a great name for an album.


Punk-Horror?

The band members could dress up in raggity clothing and sing about dumpster dining and shanking panhandlers on your turf!
 
2013-07-16 09:51:39 PM  
Homeless: i.imgur.com
Florida: i.imgur.com
 
2013-07-16 09:52:06 PM  

Ed Grubermann: miss diminutive: iheartscotch: Iron Felix: To zee camps.

But, I'm le tired!

Well have a nap....THEN ARREST ZE HOMELESS!

WTF, mate?


Farking kangaroos
 
2013-07-16 09:52:45 PM  

Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?


Looks like Simple Weaver is back. Hiding under your rock since Obama betrayed you on everything you've been spouting off about for the last 10 or so years - OMFG BUSH - warrant-less wiretaps, unnecessary wars, banksters, GITMO, etc. Glad Prince Obama solved all those for us just like you told he would back in '08 there Simple Weave.
 
2013-07-16 09:52:48 PM  

bdub77: HindiDiscoMonster: Snapper Carr: Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?

When you consider there are as many biblical passages sanctioning this sort of thing as there are condemning it, I'm sure he's able to cherry pick enough material to justify the usual smug right wing christian arrogance.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x163]

You need a Biblical citation for being charitable to the poor? Are you f*cking retarded?


Hey, this guy Sarnoff plays by the book. We're not sure which one, but, yeah, he probably requires (a cherry-picked) chapter and verse from it.
 
2013-07-16 09:53:47 PM  
I believe New Orleans tried a plan to get rid of its homeless years ago but they ran into some obstructionism...

i2.listal.com
 
2013-07-16 09:54:04 PM  

Createwolf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Tuttle_Causeway_sex_offender_colon y


It's a vicious cycle in Miami


The Julia Tuttle Causeway sex offender colony (also called "Bookville" by former residents)


Bookville is a much better name...
 
2013-07-16 09:54:59 PM  

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?

Either Christians have to admit Jesus was wrong when he advocated helping the less fortunate, or they have to admit he was right and they just don't want to.

FTFA: Sarnoff argues that homeless people in the downtown business district are a "chronic problem." Indeed, as the Miami Herald points out, "Most local shelters are at capacity, meaning police can do little to punish the homeless who urinate in the street or light cooking fires in public parks." Instead of vying for more funding to support the hundreds of homeless people who reside in Miami, Sarnoff's solution is to jail them for living on the streets.

Yes, obviously these folks need punishment. Maybe a day or three in county will teach them to piss/shiat in their pants and eat raw food. That'll show them.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 537x700]


Pissing in public and setting open fires in public parks should be punished.  His only error was referring to "the homeless" instead of  "anyone."  You get it now?  A drunken homeowner who pisses in a public park or sets a fire where it's not supposed to be gets arrested.  A homeless drunk doing likewise gets treated like a city councilman; nothing happens to him.  Fark that.
 
2013-07-16 09:55:37 PM  

Z1P2: Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?

He probably is a good Christian, christianity is not synonymous with communism you know. Charity is what is done with private dollars, not tax dollars. You get no credit from god for robbing peter to give to paul.


And Christians have been proven so completely and utterly incapable of providing enough charity, that the rest of us have had to pick up the slack to promote the general welfare - you know, like the Constitution mentions is one of its purposes in the preamble. We'll let the Christians have another go once they can prove they can accomplish any other tasks except wanking themselves unconscious extolling their ubermenschitude and simultaneously demanding they not have to pay taxes while they engage in their auto-erotic sophism.
 
2013-07-16 09:57:32 PM  

phalamir: Z1P2: Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?

He probably is a good Christian, christianity is not synonymous with communism you know. Charity is what is done with private dollars, not tax dollars. You get no credit from god for robbing peter to give to paul.

And Christians have been proven so completely and utterly incapable of providing enough charity, that the rest of us have had to pick up the slack to promote the general welfare - you know, like the Constitution mentions is one of its purposes in the preamble. We'll let the Christians have another go once they can prove they can accomplish any other tasks except wanking themselves unconscious extolling their ubermenschitude and simultaneously demanding they not have to pay taxes while they engage in their auto-erotic sophism.


That's a pretty broad brush yer paintin' with
 
2013-07-16 09:58:48 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: Russ1642: Send them to jail where they get three squares a day, a bed at night, and a beating only once a week.

You forgot the rape.

Lots of rape.


At county lockup? Nah, everyone where they would be going is in for minor shiat and not looking to get in trouble. They want to keep their head down and do their short time.
 
2013-07-16 09:59:56 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: bdub77: HindiDiscoMonster: Snapper Carr: Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?

When you consider there are as many biblical passages sanctioning this sort of thing as there are condemning it, I'm sure he's able to cherry pick enough material to justify the usual smug right wing christian arrogance.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x163]

You need a Biblical citation for being charitable to the poor? Are you f*cking retarded?

aparently you are.... note the part that i hilighted... you did RTFA right?


Apparently misread then, i assumed you meant sanctioning being homeless or poor, not sanctioning the elimination of such - I do know what the article is about. But I assure you there are passages one could interpret as being against anyone who does not produce within the society.
 
2013-07-16 10:00:09 PM  

Sock Ruh Tease: Createwolf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Tuttle_Causeway_sex_offender_colon y


It's a vicious cycle in Miami

The Julia Tuttle Causeway sex offender colony (also called "Bookville" by former residents)


Bookville is a much better name...


Any place in Florida called "Bookville" has to be done so ironically.
 
2013-07-16 10:01:54 PM  
Miami privatized prisons/jails are looking to increase the head count?
 
2013-07-16 10:02:11 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: bdub77: HindiDiscoMonster: Snapper Carr: Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?

When you consider there are as many biblical passages sanctioning this sort of thing as there are condemning it, I'm sure he's able to cherry pick enough material to justify the usual smug right wing christian arrogance.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x163]

You need a Biblical citation for being charitable to the poor? Are you f*cking retarded?

aparently you are.... note the part that i hilighted... you did RTFA right?


There were some Old Testament passages relating to taking people as slaves when they couldn't pay their debts.  I'm sure you could draw a parallel between that and imprisoning the homeless in the sure-to-be-created for-profit prisons.
 
2013-07-16 10:02:20 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Snapper Carr: Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?

When you consider there are as many biblical passages sanctioning this sort of thing as there are condemning it, I'm sure he's able to cherry pick enough material to justify the usual smug right wing christian arrogance.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x163]


Paul gets all kinds of boot-strappy

2 Thessalonians 3:6-12
"Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living."
 
2013-07-16 10:02:53 PM  

theknuckler_33: Full implementation of Obama death panels, amirite?


You win the thread.

Libtards have a profound sympathy for the underclasses-----until they wind up in their own back yards.
 
2013-07-16 10:02:53 PM  
hey geniuses its gonna cost you more to jail them then to get them in a homeless shelter.
 
2013-07-16 10:02:56 PM  
bdub77:
You need a Biblical citation for being charitable to the poor? Are you f*cking retarded?

No, he asked for the opposite.  He is referring to "this sort of thing".  "this sort of thing", to a reasonable person, would refer to the same topic conveyed in the post that both he and you quoted i.e.Sarnoff's actions.   You sure you aren't retarded?
 
2013-07-16 10:03:01 PM  
jaylectricity
They went from an approximate number of homeless people to an oddly specific number. That's telling you they only need to arrest the 351 known homeless people who refuse to go to the shelter.

What is going on that like three people who I have /favorited have made some incredibly right-wing statements in the last couple of days? Did everyone get together and decide to try trolling for a while?
 
2013-07-16 10:05:09 PM  

Big_Doofus: Most of the chronically homeless are severely mentally ill and won't go to shelters. I know, I worked at a shelter for several years.  Unfortunately, sometimes it takes arrest to protect some of these folks.

We need more facilities for the severely mentally ill and then we need a way to keep them in these facilities even if they don't want to be there.


But that would violate their civil rights. It's much better for them to live on the streets in filth and starve while we try to convince them they really want treatment instead. Besides, the only alternative to allowing the mentally ill to run around loose on the streets is if they are all forcibly locked into squalid insane asylums and given electroshock treatment; why do you hate the mentally ill?
 
2013-07-16 10:05:16 PM  
Army of Zimmerman clones?
 
2013-07-16 10:06:44 PM  
So we jail them and then slap then with a bill for jail and then jail them again because they can't pay the bill? This sounds vaugely familiar.....................
itthing.com
 
2013-07-16 10:09:06 PM  
Why don't the cops just give them to the part of town where the rich people won't see them, just like they do in any other big city.

Snapper Carr:Paul gets all kinds of boot-strappy

It's funny how when a Christian wants to be an ass they always end up quoting one of Paul's letters. Even the smity parts of the Old Testament can't keep up with him.
 
2013-07-16 10:09:36 PM  

grimlock1972: hey geniuses its gonna cost you more to jail them then to get them in a homeless shelter.


True, but it's not always that simple. Not sure about Miami, but in Honolulu, we have excess unused bed space in many shelters for 2 main reasons:

1. Many of our homeless are mentally ill and are leery of going to shelters.
2. Shelters don't allow drug and alcohol use, and have rules about appropriate behavior, so many of the homeless would rather continue to live on the street than follow the rules.

The homeless can't be forced into the shelters so they live in small gatherings in public places.
 
2013-07-16 10:10:49 PM  
Proverbs 18:9 ESV / 15 helpful votes
Whoever is slack in his work is a brother to him who destroys.

Ecclesiastes 10:18 ESV / 12 helpful votes
Through sloth the roof sinks in, and through indolence the house leaks.

Proverbs 21:25 ESV / 7 helpful votes
The desire of the sluggard kills him, for his hands refuse to labor.

Proverbs 23:21 ESV / 10 helpful votes
For the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags.

Tons. The Bible is full of contradictory crap.
 
2013-07-16 10:11:19 PM  
Why don't republicans just cut to the chase?

10think.com
 
2013-07-16 10:12:36 PM  
There have always been the poor, a shame upon their nation's governance and delusions of compassion.  This is, however, th forst time in history that it is going to be made de facto illegal.  So, dismantle several market sectors and pocket hundreds of billions with nothing more than gymnastic math and pieces of paper, a captain of industry.  Eat a sandwich at a bus shelter, off to the gay S&M dungeon.   Anybody know if Pawn Stars or WWE is any good tonight?
 
2013-07-16 10:13:53 PM  

Great_Milenko: Why don't republicans just cut to the chase?

[10think.com image 472x339]


They are.
 
2013-07-16 10:14:38 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: bdub77: HindiDiscoMonster: bdub77: HindiDiscoMonster: Snapper Carr: Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?

When you consider there are as many biblical passages sanctioning this sort of thing as there are condemning it, I'm sure he's able to cherry pick enough material to justify the usual smug right wing christian arrogance.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x163]

You need a Biblical citation for being charitable to the poor? Are you f*cking retarded?

aparently you are.... note the part that i hilighted... you did RTFA right?

Apparently misread then, i assumed you meant sanctioning being homeless or poor, not sanctioning the elimination of such - I do know what the article is about. But I assure you there are passages one could interpret as being against anyone who does not produce within the society.

again - citation please.... assumptions mean nothing.


"For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat."  2 Thessalonians 3:10

"A day without work is a day without food." Rule of many Zen monasteries.

Both assume a person is able to work.
 
2013-07-16 10:17:39 PM  

bdub77: Proverbs 18:9 ESV / 15 helpful votes
Whoever is slack in his work is a brother to him who destroys.

Ecclesiastes 10:18 ESV / 12 helpful votes
Through sloth the roof sinks in, and through indolence the house leaks.

Proverbs 21:25 ESV / 7 helpful votes
The desire of the sluggard kills him, for his hands refuse to labor.

Proverbs 23:21 ESV / 10 helpful votes
For the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags.

Tons. The Bible is full of contradictory crap.


If I didn't know when Fark was founded, I'd swear we wrote  the Bible.
 
2013-07-16 10:18:30 PM  
You know who else liked to make final plans for eliminating people?
 
2013-07-16 10:19:25 PM  

Oldiron_79: You know who else liked to make final plans for eliminating people?


Donald Trump?
 
2013-07-16 10:20:10 PM  
"so police can arrest anyone who blocks a sidewalk, cooks a meal in a public area using a fire, litters, urinates or defecates in public, or engages in lewd conduct, rather than offering those folks a bed to sleep. "

Not sure if serious, Think Progress.
 
2013-07-16 10:20:28 PM  
fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net
 
2013-07-16 10:20:50 PM  
A cursory search revealed that Marc Sarnoff is partners in a company ran by James Levin called JBL Construction, that specializes in low income housing.

It also revealed that he is quite corrupt, and a dick.

Is Marc D. Sarnoff Corrupt Or The Most Corrupt Miami Politician?
 
2013-07-16 10:20:56 PM  

sycraft: You messed up the headline. Should be "Miami finalizes solution to eliminate homelessness "


Sometimes a Godwin isn't a Godwin but simply an actual comparison.
Happening a lot lately.
 
2013-07-16 10:21:52 PM  

Granny_Panties: Can't they just follow homeless people around, harass them, and then pick a fight? If the homeless people start winning the fight, they can shoot em. Isn't that how it works in Florida?


The jury concluded that story was bullshiat. I conclude that YOU are bullshiat.
 
2013-07-16 10:22:44 PM  

Oldiron_79: You know who else liked to make final plans for eliminating people?


museumstudiesatmacquarie.org
 
2013-07-16 10:23:32 PM  
What a tool. Strange how the Homeless appeared right when Ronnie engineered the closing of mental health institutions and the most needy of people were put out on the street for local "care".

All and any homeless are a tribute to this former FBI informant and his lack of any accountability.

www.bostonglobe.com
 
2013-07-16 10:24:10 PM  

bdub77: Proverbs 18:9 ESV / 15 helpful votes
Whoever is slack in his work is a brother to him who destroys.

Ecclesiastes 10:18 ESV / 12 helpful votes
Through sloth the roof sinks in, and through indolence the house leaks.

Proverbs 21:25 ESV / 7 helpful votes
The desire of the sluggard kills him, for his hands refuse to labor.

Proverbs 23:21 ESV / 10 helpful votes
For the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags.

Tons. The Bible is full of contradictory crap.


Those quotes themselves do nothing to contradict the idea that you should help the poor.
Modern Christians downfall is that they automatically assume the poor are idle. That is hardly ever actually true.
 
2013-07-16 10:24:37 PM  

bunner: There have always been the poor, a shame upon their nation's governance and delusions of compassion.   This is, however, th forst time in history that it is going to be made de facto illegal.  So, dismantle several market sectors and pocket hundreds of billions with nothing more than gymnastic math and pieces of paper, a captain of industry.  Eat a sandwich at a bus shelter, off to the gay S&M dungeon.   Anybody know if Pawn Stars or WWE is any good tonight?


Oh, not even close. Vagrancy laws are centuries old; and debtor's prisons and being sold into slavery to pay for debt are older than that. As long as there's been stratified society, it's been more or less illegal to have less than the top tier of society. It's only surprising to see it being done so blatantly in a nation that's got a big statue in it's front porch inscribed "give me your huddled masses..." but there you go. But being poor has always been a crime.
 
2013-07-16 10:24:48 PM  
Jails are so much cheaper than shelters or substance abuse treatment.
 
2013-07-16 10:25:36 PM  

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Army of Zimmerman clones?


global.fncstatic.com

Sees what you did there. Cannot describe what you did in English.
 
2013-07-16 10:25:38 PM  
Godwin made a pithy remark.  Not a law.  If we actually go smiling and pissing our pants on command into the Fourth Reich because noticing would be unfashionable, we f*cking well deserve such.
 
2013-07-16 10:26:50 PM  

Gyrfalcon: bunner: There have always been the poor, a shame upon their nation's governance and delusions of compassion.   This is, however, th forst time in history that it is going to be made de facto illegal.  So, dismantle several market sectors and pocket hundreds of billions with nothing more than gymnastic math and pieces of paper, a captain of industry.  Eat a sandwich at a bus shelter, off to the gay S&M dungeon.   Anybody know if Pawn Stars or WWE is any good tonight?

Oh, not even close. Vagrancy laws are centuries old; and debtor's prisons and being sold into slavery to pay for debt are older than that. As long as there's been stratified society, it's been more or less illegal to have less than the top tier of society. It's only surprising to see it being done so blatantly in a nation that's got a big statue in it's front porch inscribed "give me your huddled masses..." but there you go. But being poor has always been a crime.


it sounds a lot scurrier if yopu pretend it is unprecedented
 
2013-07-16 10:27:00 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Oh, not even close. Vagrancy laws are centuries old; and debtor's prisons and being sold into slavery to pay for debt are older than that.


I meant here.  See Great Depression.  Vagrancy, yeah.  Not abject poverty as such.
 
2013-07-16 10:27:16 PM  
Ship 'em to China, they've got entire cities that are completely empty.
 
2013-07-16 10:28:36 PM  

DubtodaIll: Ship 'em to China, they've got entire cities that are completely empty.


Bonus, they're hiring!
 
2013-07-16 10:31:42 PM  

bunner: Godwin made a pithy remark.  Not a law.  If we actually go smiling and pissing our pants on command into the Fourth Reich because noticing would be unfashionable, we f*cking well deserve such.


"They want to modify the definition of  "life-sustaining activities"  to exclude starting fires to cook meals in public areas, blocking sidewalks, littering, relieving themselves in public and lewd conduct.
The city also wants to give police authority to arrest people who refuse to go to a shelter on three occasions within a 180 day period and to confiscate their belongings. The city also asked the judge to exclude sexual predators from the provisions of the Pottinger settlement."

They want to make it illegal for homeless people to not obey the laws the rest of us have to regarding starting fires in public, littering, shiatting in public and jacking off on the streetcorner. Yep, just like the Nazis.
 
2013-07-16 10:32:16 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: bdub77: Proverbs 18:9 ESV / 15 helpful votes
Whoever is slack in his work is a brother to him who destroys.

Ecclesiastes 10:18 ESV / 12 helpful votes
Through sloth the roof sinks in, and through indolence the house leaks.

Proverbs 21:25 ESV / 7 helpful votes
The desire of the sluggard kills him, for his hands refuse to labor.

Proverbs 23:21 ESV / 10 helpful votes
For the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags.

Tons. The Bible is full of contradictory crap.

Those quotes themselves do nothing to contradict the idea that you should help the poor.
Modern Christians downfall is that they automatically assume the poor are idle. That is hardly ever actually true.


It's not about contradicting anything, it's about the ability to make up any bullsh*t you want to suit your agenda and if you need a biblical verse or two to convince the crazy eyed crowd you can find a way to twist it to your point.
 
2013-07-16 10:33:21 PM  

bunner: Gyrfalcon: Oh, not even close. Vagrancy laws are centuries old; and debtor's prisons and being sold into slavery to pay for debt are older than that.

I meant here.  See Great Depression.  Vagrancy, yeah.  Not abject poverty as such.


here meaning where? She's talking about vagrancy laws in the US. All over the place. Did you know it is illegal to spit on the sidewalk in NYC? Wherever are the homeless people going to rid themselves of phlegm?! The humanity!
 
2013-07-16 10:34:26 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: Can't we just eat the homeless?

That could be considered 'green' right?


Soylently!
 
2013-07-16 10:45:34 PM  
 

Sergeant Grumbles: Modern Christians downfall is that they automatically assume the poor are idle. That is hardly ever actually true.


The most visible, irritating ones are.  That's the problem.
 
2013-07-16 10:47:11 PM  
Oh noes!  I can't take a dump on the sidewalk!  You're violating my civil rights!
 
2013-07-16 10:47:17 PM  

1000 Ways to Dye: Before anybody calls this a war on poor people, I should point out that rich people also aren't allowed to sleep under bridges or on park benches.


"The law, in its majestic equality,forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

-- Anatole France

I work in Harvard Square, and I'd have to say the panhandlers are as much a part of the ambiance as the buskers and street performers. They're a tourist attraction. Having been given lemons, Miami should try making lemonade instead of confirming to everyone what horrible dicks Floridians are. I once asked one of the locals why he didn't head down south during the winter (he was shivering on a street corner) and he said there are cops hanging out near the bus stations to grab new arrivals and put them on another bus heading out of state. The homeless are subjected to endless indignities, even in the People's Republic of Cambridge, but one of them once told me "Don't tell anyone but if you panhandle in Harvard Square, you'll never go hungry," and indeed there are troops of genuine Christians patrolling the streets with carts full of food and drink for the homeless.One of the best stories I heard was about "the Rabbi," a Chasidic Jew who waited until the target of his charity were looking the other way, then ran up, stuffed a twenty dollar bill in his cup and ran off before he could be thanked. A legend on the streets of Cambridge.
 
2013-07-16 10:47:47 PM  

skullkrusher: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Army of Zimmerman clones?

[global.fncstatic.com image 640x360]

Sees what you did there. Cannot describe what you did in English.


Seriously though tell me that isn't Ving Rhames in a wig.
 
2013-07-16 10:48:53 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: phalamir: Z1P2: Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?

He probably is a good Christian, christianity is not synonymous with communism you know. Charity is what is done with private dollars, not tax dollars. You get no credit from god for robbing peter to give to paul.

And Christians have been proven so completely and utterly incapable of providing enough charity, that the rest of us have had to pick up the slack to promote the general welfare - you know, like the Constitution mentions is one of its purposes in the preamble. We'll let the Christians have another go once they can prove they can accomplish any other tasks except wanking themselves unconscious extolling their ubermenschitude and simultaneously demanding they not have to pay taxes while they engage in their auto-erotic sophism.

That's a pretty broad brush yer paintin' with


Oh, no.  The Victorian Era painted with the brush - I'm just pointing out the smear
 
2013-07-16 10:49:59 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: The most visible, irritating ones are. That's the problem.


Christians? Or the poor?

For Christians, I agree.

For the poor, that image is a Reagenesque fantasy.
 
2013-07-16 10:50:11 PM  

clambam: 1000 Ways to Dye: Before anybody calls this a war on poor people, I should point out that rich people also aren't allowed to sleep under bridges or on park benches.

"The law, in its majestic equality,forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

-- Anatole France

I work in Harvard Square, and I'd have to say the panhandlers are as much a part of the ambiance as the buskers and street performers. They're a tourist attraction. Having been given lemons, Miami should try making lemonade instead of confirming to everyone what horrible dicks Floridians are. I once asked one of the locals why he didn't head down south during the winter (he was shivering on a street corner) and he said there are cops hanging out near the bus stations to grab new arrivals and put them on another bus heading out of state. The homeless are subjected to endless indignities, even in the People's Republic of Cambridge, but one of them once told me "Don't tell anyone but if you panhandle in Harvard Square, you'll never go hungry," and indeed there are troops of genuine Christians patrolling the streets with carts full of food and drink for the homeless.One of the best stories I heard was about "the Rabbi," a Chasidic Jew who waited until the target of his charity were looking the other way, then ran up, stuffed a twenty dollar bill in his cup and ran off before he could be thanked. A legend on the streets of Cambridge.




Yeah, those charming homeless. They're super awesome!
 
2013-07-16 10:51:02 PM  

RanDomino: jaylectricity
They went from an approximate number of homeless people to an oddly specific number. That's telling you they only need to arrest the 351 known homeless people who refuse to go to the shelter.

What is going on that like three people who I have /favorited have made some incredibly right-wing statements in the last couple of days? Did everyone get together and decide to try trolling for a while?


If you have me highlighted, I'll have to assume you know I'm joking. I'm so right, I'm left.
 
2013-07-16 10:54:05 PM  

Jacob_Roberson: Homeless: [i.imgur.com image 512x525]
Florida: [i.imgur.com image 361x377]


Bravo.
 
2013-07-16 10:55:27 PM  

Great_Milenko: Why don't republicans just cut to the chase?

[10think.com image 472x339]


www.shreddingsystems.co.uk

Much easier.
 
2013-07-16 10:56:02 PM  

Big_Doofus: Most of the chronically homeless are severely mentally ill and won't go to shelters. I know, I worked at a shelter for several years.  Unfortunately, sometimes it takes arrest to protect some of these folks.

We need more facilities for the severely mentally ill and then we need a way to keep them in these facilities even if they don't want to be there.


we used to have state hostpitals like that. They got shut down for being inhumane.
 
2013-07-16 10:57:40 PM  
Could be a good source of protein...

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-07-16 10:59:11 PM  

Big_Doofus: Yeah, those charming homeless. They're super awesome!


I have a number of hard-working homeless friends and comrades. Being smart and hard-working is not, by any means, a guaranteed path off the street. If you find yourself homeless, it's hard as balls to get back into steady housing and employment, even here in - ha! - "Freeatle", and even if you have a strong group of people around you willing and able to help. But, hey, judge away.
 
2013-07-16 11:03:42 PM  

Jacob_Roberson: Homeless: [i.imgur.com image 512x525]
Florida: [i.imgur.com image 361x377]


My favourite episodes of TNG!!!

/nerdout
 
2013-07-16 11:06:52 PM  
4.bp.blogspot.com

For Florida...
 
2013-07-16 11:06:54 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: Big_Doofus: Yeah, those charming homeless. They're super awesome!

I have a number of hard-working homeless friends and comrades. Being smart and hard-working is not, by any means, a guaranteed path off the street. If you find yourself homeless, it's hard as balls to get back into steady housing and employment, even here in - ha! - "Freeatle", and even if you have a strong group of people around you willing and able to help. But, hey, judge away.


Can I judge you for using the word "comrades" without a hint of irony? OK, good. Thanks. I will.
 
2013-07-16 11:08:14 PM  
 
2013-07-16 11:09:34 PM  

skullkrusher: Can I judge you for using the word "comrades" without a hint of irony? OK, good. Thanks. I will.


The comedic stylings of skullkrusher, ladies and gentlemen! Please give a round of applause! Remember to tip your waitress!
 
2013-07-16 11:11:17 PM  
Omfg, his campaign website reads like it was written by a second grader:

http://www.marcsarnoff.com/

My name is Marc David Sarnoff and I was first elected City Commissioner for Miami's District 2 on November 21, 2006. The term was for one year, finishing out the former commissioner's term, which would have ended November 2007. The next election for this office was November 2007, which I also won. I am running for re-election in November for City Commissioner for Miami's District 2.

...

...As you may know, Umoja is no longer there due to a fire caused by a candle; fortunately, no one was injured. Freedom of speech and the freedom of assembly must be vigilantly guarded by elected officials. Citizens must be afforded the right to assemble for very practical and legitimate reasons; .... a few come to mind .... such things as high taxes, overdevelopment, and quality of life issues. I convinced the City this would be strenuously opposed by District 2, and the City, to its credit, stopped the creation of the anti-assembly ordinance.


...

My favorite food is pizza.  Last year I went to Disneyland and saw Mickey Mouse.  I had fun and my sister got stung by a bee and cried all the way home.  When I got home mom bought me a bike.
 
2013-07-16 11:12:01 PM  
Make it illegal to be homeless, fine, but provide them all with the option of free shelter and food.  I don't think anyone has a right to misuse public property by living on the street, but if they have no choice it is only right to help them out.
 
2013-07-16 11:12:03 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: lack of warmth: Here is an idea, if you have the room and food to spare in the jail then go ahead and let the homeless have a hot and a cot.  However, lets not bother with the booking and paperwork.

/one night one meal, see you later Otis

For someone named 'lack of warmth' you seem awfully idealistic and such for taking care of people not contributing to society.


Well, we take care of children before they can contribute to society and we take care of old folks well after they stop contributing to society, but some folks have a problem with taking care of someone whose life is somewhere in the middle of the first two groups just because they can't find a place in society.

My point was they could just skip the paperwork, because the end result will still be the same.

/I'm complicated
//or crazy, either way it starts with a C.
 
2013-07-16 11:19:23 PM  

GardenWeasel: Once again... B5 WAS NOT A HOW-TO MANUAL

[dic.academic.ru image 477x351]


Here you go...

lh3.googleusercontent.com
 
2013-07-16 11:20:12 PM  

hubiestubert: GardenWeasel: Once again... B5 WAS NOT A HOW-TO MANUAL

[dic.academic.ru image 477x351]

Here you go...

[lh3.googleusercontent.com image 640x512]


I'm fond of the Snow Crash one, but that's pretty good too.
 
2013-07-16 11:20:32 PM  
Sadly, I looked at the picture in the link and I felt more sorry for the dog than the pan-handler.  Not because I lack empathy, but because the homeless "problem" often stems from people who do not want to be part of society.  Obviously there are those who have just been on the wrong side of fortune, but how do we distinguish these less fortunate from those that choose to be "feral humans?"  Ultimately, how do we as a society solve this problem?

While I do not think jailing the homeless is in any way a "solution," but isn't creating mental institutions to house these individuals somewhat the same "solution?"
 
2013-07-16 11:20:49 PM  

tfresh: [i1.ytimg.com image 480x360]

EXECUTE THE HOMELESS!!!!


Came for this, leaving satisfied.
 
2013-07-16 11:24:31 PM  
Socialism, how does it work?
 
2013-07-16 11:25:01 PM  

jpo2269: While I do not think jailing the homeless is in any way a "solution," but isn't creating mental institutions to house these individuals somewhat the same "solution?"


Psychiatric hospitals are WAY nicer than prisons.

/not "nice" mind you, "nicer"
//yes, I have been in both
///yes, I am using an alt right now so no one knows who the fark I really am
 
2013-07-16 11:25:33 PM  
Yes, because what Miami needs is MOAR folks in jail, because that will just fix the city's budget problems in a trice, right?

Have they just considered bussing the homeless to someplace outside of Dade County. Maybe just over the line, so that someone else has to take care of them? That's how Northampton takes care of a lot of their homeless problems, by dumping them on Holyoke. Fixes up the budget problems, and the buskers who do have homes like the lack of competition...
 
2013-07-16 11:30:56 PM  
soylent green?
DNRTFA
 
2013-07-16 11:35:37 PM  

Victoly: Capo Del Bandito: Can't we just eat the homeless?

That could be considered 'green' right?

Soylently!


Niiiiice.
 
2013-07-16 11:36:52 PM  
The Supreme Court says homeless people can own property. My guess is that they are even more likely let them eat in public, especially since the "homed" are allowed to eat in public. And a whole lot of seniors doze in the sun, so I can't see the convicted-of-sleeping thing is going to work, either.
 
2013-07-16 11:38:39 PM  
Obamasaurus,

While I would not disagree with you about psychiatric hospitals being "nicer" than prisons, but for the percentage of homeless that are that way because of a choice, when or how will they leave?  What about the percentage of homeless that are such because of hard luck?  Would it be beneficial to them to house them in a psychiatric hospital?

Granted, this is obviously a very complex situation, but there has to be a some level of a solution to be able to help those that just need a hand up and those that need psychiatric help, if for no other reason than to save the dogs....

j/k
 
2013-07-16 11:39:41 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: BarkingUnicorn: The most visible, irritating ones are. That's the problem.

Christians? Or the poor?

For Christians, I agree.

For the poor, that image is a Reagenesque fantasy.


Both can be highly visible and highly irritating.

The idle poor we were discussing are most visible of the poor, naturally; a person who's doing nothing while others are busy stands out.  They cause more irritation than the working poor because misery loves company.  "I'm going back to a shiatty  job with an asshole boss and this bum's getting money for free."

No, they don't know how the bum lives.  But that's how it looks, and that's why taxpayers don't want to see the idle poor.
 
2013-07-16 11:40:06 PM  

TommyDeuce: iheartscotch: Sounds like a Fine ol' solution...

/ I bet they will nazi that coming...

It's simply a modest proposal.


fc09.deviantart.net
 
2013-07-16 11:42:43 PM  

Lets talk frankly about internal cleanliness: halB: One of the few things holding it back is these consistent homeless people who are really messed up in the head.

So please keep this in mind when talking about this problem.

Yup, jail will fix that. Everyone that goes to the pokey comes out all shiny and new, ready to be productive members of society. That's why recidivism is 0% these days, and our jails and prisons are near-empty.



Charity begins at home. Invite them into your home. Adopt a mentally ill homeless person today!
 
2013-07-16 11:43:17 PM  

Atomic Spunk: grimlock1972: hey geniuses its gonna cost you more to jail them then to get them in a homeless shelter.

True, but it's not always that simple. Not sure about Miami, but in Honolulu, we have excess unused bed space in many shelters for 2 main reasons:

1. Many of our homeless are mentally ill and are leery of going to shelters.
2. Shelters don't allow drug and alcohol use, and have rules about appropriate behavior, so many of the homeless would rather continue to live on the street than follow the rules.

The homeless can't be forced into the shelters so they live in small gatherings in public places.


I agree its not often that simple but in general its a waste of money to jail them.
 
2013-07-16 11:45:19 PM  
"As though life weren't already difficult enough for people who can't afford regular housing, they could soon find themselves thrown in jail and their possessions confiscated if they're caught engaging in certain everyday activities in public. "

Didn't the US Supreme Court recently rule that a hobo's stuff is a hobo's stuff, and it cannot be confiscated unless it's contraband?
 
2013-07-16 11:46:58 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: The idle poor we were discussing are most visible of the poor, naturally; a person who's doing nothing while others are busy stands out.


Such as who?
 
2013-07-16 11:47:44 PM  
i can tell you that downtown miami is severely severely underdeveloped and there are a lot of developers looking at downtown as the next IT spot as the surrounding little neighborhoods are booming with new businesses, housing, parks, museums etc. downtown is desolate craphole with hundreds of zombie bums walking around smelling like the year 1300.
 
2013-07-16 11:51:29 PM  

bostonowns: i can tell you that downtown miami is severely severely underdeveloped and there are a lot of developers looking at downtown as the next IT spot as the surrounding little neighborhoods are booming with new businesses, housing, parks, museums etc. downtown is desolate craphole with hundreds of zombie bums walking around smelling like the year 1300.


southparkstudios-intl.mtvnimages.com
 
2013-07-16 11:51:36 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: The band members could dress up in raggity clothing and sing about dumpster dining


Dumpster Love
 
2013-07-16 11:53:33 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: BarkingUnicorn: The idle poor we were discussing are most visible of the poor, naturally; a person who's doing nothing while others are busy stands out.

Such as who?


Any Farker.
 
2013-07-16 11:57:57 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: Russ1642: Send them to jail where they get three squares a day, a bed at night, and a beating only once a week.

You forgot the rape.

Lots of rape.


A veritable land of rape and honey.
 
2013-07-17 12:05:43 AM  
They caught the last poor man
On a poor man's vacation
They cuffed him and confiscated his stuff
They dragged his black ass down to the station
And said, ok, the streets are safe now
All your pretty white children can come out and see spot run
And they came out of their houses
And they looked around
But they didn't see no one

My country 'tis of thee
To take swings at each other on the talkshow tv
Why don't you just go ahead and turn off the sun
'cause we'll never live long enough
To undo everything they've done to you
Undo everything they've done to you
 
2013-07-17 12:07:21 AM  
You know what would make the streets a lot safer? If we threw everyone in jail. Everyone. You, me, children, grandparents, the president, everyone.

No people on the street = no crime.
 
2013-07-17 12:08:40 AM  

skullkrusher: Did you know it is illegal to spit on the sidewalk in NYC?



If you spit in the NY subway, it's a 50 dollar fine. Vomiting is free, man.

t2.gstatic.com
 
2013-07-17 12:10:05 AM  
Leave it to my home state of Arizona to make this a crime way before Florida.  Phoenix specifically uses a law against "urban camping" to clean the homeless off the streets:

"Urban Camping": You may not camp in any park, preserve, building, parking lot or other land that belongs tot he City of Phoenix, unless you have a permit from the city Department of Parks and Recreation. The following activities can be considered "camping":
• Sleeping
• Making preparations to sleep or laying down bedding
• Storing belongings
• Pitching a tent or parking a vehicle to sleep in
• Making a fire
• Cooking
• Digging or breaking ground.

Sit/Lie Law:You may not sit, lie or sleep on a public street,sidewalk or alley, except because of a physical emergency or to receive medical attention.

So if I read that right you can be arrested for sitting down on a park bench.  Nice....
 
2013-07-17 12:12:03 AM  
She's just like you and me
But she's homeless, she's homeless
As she stands there singing for money.

La da dee la dee da
La da dee la dee da
La da dee la dee da
La da dee la dee da
La da dee la dee da
La da dee la dee da
 
2013-07-17 12:17:16 AM  

spaten: They are just following California...

http://www.cityprojectca.org/ourwork/beachaccess.html

/The liberal NIMBYS


Uh... "but California" is never an excuse for anything ever.  CA has some of the worst laws in the US hands down, even people in CA will tell you that.
 
2013-07-17 12:25:38 AM  
I wonder
Where she goes
When the night falls
What thunder
Has made us
Deaf to her calls?
 
2013-07-17 12:37:08 AM  
You know, we could just give them housing. Not shelters with strict rules where they wake everyone up at 6 am, not prison cells, just regular rooms. Like the kind people with money live in.

Where they've done that, the homeless have fewer health problems (the reduction in medical costs alone makes it worth it), don't get in trouble with the law for stupid reasons, and as a bonus to everyone they aren't shiatting in parks and alleys.

I know I sound radical. To be REALLY radical, I suggest we extend a right to housing to everyone in the US.
 
2013-07-17 12:39:56 AM  

adamatari: You know, we could just give them housing. Not shelters with strict rules where they wake everyone up at 6 am, not prison cells, just regular rooms. Like the kind people with money live in.

Where they've done that, the homeless have fewer health problems (the reduction in medical costs alone makes it worth it), don't get in trouble with the law for stupid reasons, and as a bonus to everyone they aren't shiatting in parks and alleys.

I know I sound radical. To be REALLY radical, I suggest we extend a right to housing to everyone in the US.


It's sensible, expands opportunity in all respects, would be less expensive than the ongoing war on the homeless, but it's not punitive and evil. Still, you have my sword.
 
2013-07-17 12:45:11 AM  

adamatari: You know, we could just give them housing. Not shelters with strict rules where they wake everyone up at 6 am, not prison cells, just regular rooms. Like the kind people with money live in.

Where they've done that, the homeless have fewer health problems (the reduction in medical costs alone makes it worth it), don't get in trouble with the law for stupid reasons, and as a bonus to everyone they aren't shiatting in parks and alleys.

I know I sound radical. To be REALLY radical, I suggest we extend a right to housing to everyone in the US.


Why do you hate the freedom that comes from predatory capitalism?!


/Seriously, though, that's an excellent idea.
 
2013-07-17 12:46:43 AM  

Jacob_Roberson: Homeless: [i.imgur.com image 512x525]
Florida: [i.imgur.com image 361x377]


help out an old 49er
/fell down a shaft...
 
2013-07-17 12:53:59 AM  

A Dark Evil Omen: adamatari: You know, we could just give them housing. Not shelters with strict rules where they wake everyone up at 6 am, not prison cells, just regular rooms. Like the kind people with money live in.

Where they've done that, the homeless have fewer health problems (the reduction in medical costs alone makes it worth it), don't get in trouble with the law for stupid reasons, and as a bonus to everyone they aren't shiatting in parks and alleys.

I know I sound radical. To be REALLY radical, I suggest we extend a right to housing to everyone in the US.

It's sensible, expands opportunity in all respects, would be less expensive than the ongoing war on the homeless, but it's not punitive and evil. Still, you have my sword.


Everyone already HAS a right to housing. You have the right to whatever housing you can afford. What you really mean is: Let's make a house available to everyone in the US. As in: give everyone who hasn't already got a house whatever domicile is readily available. And it might not be a bad idea--if only so much else didn't go along with mere possession of four walls and a roof. Water, power, sewage, the neighbors...it's not merely as simple as "put the homeless in homes."
 
2013-07-17 12:54:14 AM  
How much did the for-profit prison complex donate to his campaign?
 
2013-07-17 12:55:35 AM  
So let me get this straight...

Spending money to help homeless people become productive, tax-paying members of society, is bad.
Spending even more money to send these people through the criminal justice system, then pay for their complete care for however long their incarceration lasts, is good.

Am I understanding this correctly?

/sigh
 
2013-07-17 01:00:14 AM  

Trayal: So let me get this straight...

Spending money to help homeless people become productive, tax-paying members of society, is bad.
Spending even more money to send these people through the criminal justice system, then pay for their complete care for however long their incarceration lasts, is good.

Am I understanding this correctly?

/sigh


Well, in fairness, it's who gets the money. If folks are incarcerated, then that means the money goes to cops, to lawyers, to prison guards, and the prisons, often run for profit. If folks simply become taxpayers, they might actually want to spend that money on something that isn't in the interests of those who are paying for this sort of legislation to get in the pipe.

The prison lobby at this point is about creating more need for their services, not less. If it means MOAR money on state and Federal budgets so be it, because the money is coming from taxpayers, and the folks who are advocating these sorts of measures look upon the taxpayers as a vast sea to grift, and to do it entirely legally...
 
2013-07-17 01:06:04 AM  
Just give the homeless some Marlins tickets, the place was paid for by the taxpayers if I am correct.  I am sure they have plenty of food left over as well.
 
2013-07-17 01:19:02 AM  

Gyrfalcon: A Dark Evil Omen: adamatari: You know, we could just give them housing. Not shelters with strict rules where they wake everyone up at 6 am, not prison cells, just regular rooms. Like the kind people with money live in.

Where they've done that, the homeless have fewer health problems (the reduction in medical costs alone makes it worth it), don't get in trouble with the law for stupid reasons, and as a bonus to everyone they aren't shiatting in parks and alleys.

I know I sound radical. To be REALLY radical, I suggest we extend a right to housing to everyone in the US.

It's sensible, expands opportunity in all respects, would be less expensive than the ongoing war on the homeless, but it's not punitive and evil. Still, you have my sword.

Everyone already HAS a right to housing. You have the right to whatever housing you can afford. What you really mean is: Let's make a house available to everyone in the US. As in: give everyone who hasn't already got a house whatever domicile is readily available. And it might not be a bad idea--if only so much else didn't go along with mere possession of four walls and a roof. Water, power, sewage, the neighbors...it's not merely as simple as "put the homeless in homes."


Where I grew up, water, power, and sewage were largely run by the town/state.  These basic amenities don't need to be private and they could be provided through means other than "pay this bill."  Taxes, for instance.  I mean, what good does it do to shut off someone's water/power simply because they're too poor to pay it?  That doesn't in any way help them get better--it just punishes them for being poor.

The real "problem" here is that we're giving houses to people who don't "deserve" them.  We'd drown in the moral outrage if we ever actually did this.

However, a society that has homeless people and empty houses is a broken society.
 
2013-07-17 01:22:24 AM  

skullkrusher: bunner: Godwin made a pithy remark.  Not a law.  If we actually go smiling and pissing our pants on command into the Fourth Reich because noticing would be unfashionable, we f*cking well deserve such.

"They want to modify the definition of  "life-sustaining activities"  to exclude starting fires to cook meals in public areas, blocking sidewalks, littering, relieving themselves in public and lewd conduct.
The city also wants to give police authority to arrest people who refuse to go to a shelter on three occasions within a 180 day period and to confiscate their belongings. The city also asked the judge to exclude sexual predators from the provisions of the Pottinger settlement."

They want to make it illegal for homeless people to not obey the laws the rest of us have to regarding starting fires in public, littering, shiatting in public and jacking off on the streetcorner. Yep, just like the Nazis.


I think the hardest one to deal with when homeless is likely the rule against pissing/pooping. Not many public spaces have 24hr free bathrooms, and if you wake up in the middle of the night and need to drop a deuce, it's happening no matter what the city code might say.

If a cop really wants to bring a homeless dude in, all they need to do is watch and wait. Eventually everyone takes a crap.
 
2013-07-17 01:51:46 AM  
jaylectricity
If you have me highlighted, I'll have to assume you know I'm joking. I'm so right, I'm left.

I guessed that but "refuse to go to the shelter" seemed like a phrase that would be avoided even if trolling.
 
2013-07-17 01:58:45 AM  

Trayal: So let me get this straight...

Spending money to help homeless people become productive, tax-paying members of society, is bad.
Spending even more money to send these people through the criminal justice system, then pay for their complete care for however long their incarceration lasts, is good.

Am I understanding this correctly?

/sigh



The visible homeless (e.g. urban campers) are probably the hardest to treat using roving outreach efforts simply because their issues are far more severe and their desire to utilize social services is much lower & less consistent than other homeless people.  Typically avoiding shelters so they can continue using drugs and drinking alcohol, not to mention staying off their psychological medication.  Frankly driving by and giving them food, some cash, some medication, or some counseling just perpetuates the problem since it's not sustained (can't be since they don't maintain fixed locations) and it leaves them in the same environment that feeds into their problems.  For this type of homeless custodial confinement combined (like minimum security white collar prison) with treatment and counseling is really the best option to tackle this.  Feeding or paying panhandlers isn't helping at all.
 
2013-07-17 02:05:56 AM  

Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?


Everyone that murders or violates other people IS a Christian by definition, you clearly have not read the bible.

/Really read the Bible
//Psychopaths all of them all theists 100% why we are here now in this stupid world
///They are why we can't have nice things.
////.
//Don't NTRTFA all theists should be eliminated, hitler, stalin, mao, bush, reagan, LBJ, trueman all of them
 
2013-07-17 02:51:39 AM  

Azlefty: Gee when I read the Headline I was wondering if they were going to give the  homeless hoodies and Zimmerman ammo, but then I read the  article


And then what? You decided to to be a dick and make a stupid comment anyways?
 
2013-07-17 02:53:13 AM  

Apos: Oldiron_79: You know who else liked to make final plans for eliminating people?

[museumstudiesatmacquarie.org image 400x302]


What law is it when you are the first to invoke the name of Pontius Pilate in a blog?
I think it's Barney's Law that states "Any blog sufficiently long will ultimately invoke Pontius Pilate, Vince Shlomi and Barney the Dinosaur in response to any argument."
I think that it is a law that describes what "sufficiently long" - an Internet unit of measure - means.
 
2013-07-17 02:57:00 AM  

spaten: They are just following California...

http://www.cityprojectca.org/ourwork/beachaccess.html

/The liberal NIMBYS


I don't think that falls into the same category.  And those Malibu rich assholes could be stopped from blocking access to the PUBLIC beaches easily enough.  Make it illegal to block the access ways or to put up "no trespassing" and similar signs with a $1000 fine for each day the violation occurs.  But the Malibu city council would never do such a thing since they are in the pockets of those rich assholes.

I often felt like popping over to Malibu with tools to start pulling down the illegal signs and break open the illegal gates, but I'm sure the Malibu police would arrest me for it.

And these same rich assholes who don't want people using "their" beach cry like a bunch of babies when their multimillion dollar homes hanging over a cliff start to fall down because of erosion on the (suddenly) public beaches.   Fark those assholes.  Declare eminent domain.  Classify most of them as unfit to live in because of the danger (which vastly reduces their value).  Kick the rich assholes out, and bulldoze the houses.  Problem solved.
 
2013-07-17 03:58:10 AM  

Revek: Of course he does. After all if those people would just live and walk beside lord like he does they wouldn't be homeless.


Wasn't jesus homeless?
 
2013-07-17 04:07:00 AM  

austerity101: Gyrfalcon: A Dark Evil Omen: adamatari: You know, we could just give them housing. Not shelters with strict rules where they wake everyone up at 6 am, not prison cells, just regular rooms. Like the kind people with money live in.

Where they've done that, the homeless have fewer health problems (the reduction in medical costs alone makes it worth it), don't get in trouble with the law for stupid reasons, and as a bonus to everyone they aren't shiatting in parks and alleys.

I know I sound radical. To be REALLY radical, I suggest we extend a right to housing to everyone in the US.

It's sensible, expands opportunity in all respects, would be less expensive than the ongoing war on the homeless, but it's not punitive and evil. Still, you have my sword.

Everyone already HAS a right to housing. You have the right to whatever housing you can afford. What you really mean is: Let's make a house available to everyone in the US. As in: give everyone who hasn't already got a house whatever domicile is readily available. And it might not be a bad idea--if only so much else didn't go along with mere possession of four walls and a roof. Water, power, sewage, the neighbors...it's not merely as simple as "put the homeless in homes."

Where I grew up, water, power, and sewage were largely run by the town/state.  These basic amenities don't need to be private and they could be provided through means other than "pay this bill."  Taxes, for instance.  I mean, what good does it do to shut off someone's water/power simply because they're too poor to pay it?  That doesn't in any way help them get better--it just punishes them for being poor.

The real "problem" here is that we're giving houses to people who don't "deserve" them.  We'd drown in the moral outrage if we ever actually did this.

However, a society that has homeless people and empty houses is a broken society.


It's that in a very large society, people perceive it as "people who don't deserve" shiat, and themselves as "paying for stuff for lazy do-nothings", as opposed to smaller societies where people are aware that the less-deserving ones are probably at least somewhat unable to pay/provide for themselves. Anyone who ever lived in a small town knows of such individuals: Usually someone's cousins or uncles who were the town drunks who lived in some shack on the fringes of town, or some woman with a "passel of kids" who never paid her bills yet always had food and electricity. In a small enough community, everyone rolls their eyes and eats the bills; understanding that for whatever reason, that woman or that man cannot or will not pay his or her way.

The bigger a community gets, the smaller the drain on everyone else actually is; yet the less the community as a whole is willing to foot the bill for these "undeserving" ones. (There's a phrase for it, but I can't recall it off the top of my head) The amount that comes out of state taxes, for instance, to cover TANF/SNAP is very tiny from any individual; yet everyone perceives that it's an unwarranted burden from "their" taxes to pay for all those welfare moms and deadbeat dads and their brats. "Of course, I wouldn't want a child to starve, but..."

And the same way, we have developments full of empty houses, foreclosed homes sitting vacant waiting for demolition and Army bases slated for destruction; homeless people could be living in any of them and most would be happy to do so; but the screams of "I worked hard for my house, you can't just GIVE someone a home because blah blah blah--" would shatter the ionosphere. Nevermind that it would cost taxpayers nothing--and the drain on banks to foreclose and sell the distressed properties is costing us more--but the perception in a larger society is that somehow it is unfair to care for those who cannot care for themselves; whereas in a smaller community, a squatter in a vacant house would be largely ignored as long as he/she didn't bother anyone.
 
2013-07-17 04:12:34 AM  
Florida: The Worst State.
 
Ral
2013-07-17 04:18:11 AM  

iheartscotch: Ed Grubermann: miss diminutive: iheartscotch: Iron Felix: To zee camps.

But, I'm le tired!

Well have a nap....THEN ARREST ZE HOMELESS!

WTF, mate?

Farking kangaroos


Alaska can come too.
 
2013-07-17 05:00:00 AM  
 
2013-07-17 05:28:43 AM  

lobotomy survivor: Capo Del Bandito: eat

[i347.photobucket.com image 646x432]


I loved that game.
 
2013-07-17 05:58:24 AM  

Granny_Panties: Can't they just follow homeless people around, harass them, and then pick a fight? If the homeless people start winning the fight, they can shoot em. Isn't that how it works in Florida?


That only works on aggressive thugs but it's a great idea! We could eliminate about half of the young, ignorant population that would eventually wind up behind bars after irresponsibly creating a dozen or so spawns.

/you're a genius
//no, really
 
2013-07-17 06:02:12 AM  
Put them on sailboats and let them discover new lands.
 
2013-07-17 06:04:28 AM  

Gyrfalcon: austerity101: Gyrfalcon: A Dark Evil Omen: adamatari: You know, we could just give them housing. Not shelters with strict rules where they wake everyone up at 6 am, not prison cells, just regular rooms. Like the kind people with money live in.

Where they've done that, the homeless have fewer health problems (the reduction in medical costs alone makes it worth it), don't get in trouble with the law for stupid reasons, and as a bonus to everyone they aren't shiatting in parks and alleys.

I know I sound radical. To be REALLY radical, I suggest we extend a right to housing to everyone in the US.

It's sensible, expands opportunity in all respects, would be less expensive than the ongoing war on the homeless, but it's not punitive and evil. Still, you have my sword.

Everyone already HAS a right to housing. You have the right to whatever housing you can afford. What you really mean is: Let's make a house available to everyone in the US. As in: give everyone who hasn't already got a house whatever domicile is readily available. And it might not be a bad idea--if only so much else didn't go along with mere possession of four walls and a roof. Water, power, sewage, the neighbors...it's not merely as simple as "put the homeless in homes."

Where I grew up, water, power, and sewage were largely run by the town/state.  These basic amenities don't need to be private and they could be provided through means other than "pay this bill."  Taxes, for instance.  I mean, what good does it do to shut off someone's water/power simply because they're too poor to pay it?  That doesn't in any way help them get better--it just punishes them for being poor.

The real "problem" here is that we're giving houses to people who don't "deserve" them.  We'd drown in the moral outrage if we ever actually did this.

However, a society that has homeless people and empty houses is a broken society.

It's that in a very large society, people perceive it as "people who don't deserve" shiat, and themselves as "paying for stuff for lazy do-nothings", as opposed to smaller societies where people are aware that the less-deserving ones are probably at least somewhat unable to pay/provide for themselves. Anyone who ever lived in a small town knows of such individuals: Usually someone's cousins or uncles who were the town drunks who lived in some shack on the fringes of town, or some woman with a "passel of kids" who never paid her bills yet always had food and electricity. In a small enough community, everyone rolls their eyes and eats the bills; understanding that for whatever reason, that woman or that man cannot or will not pay his or her way.

The bigger a community gets, the smaller the drain on everyone else actually is; yet the less the community as a whole is willing to foot the bill for these "undeserving" ones. (There's a phrase for it, but I can't recall it off the top of my head) The amount that comes out of state taxes, for instance, to cover TANF/SNAP is very tiny from any individual; yet everyone perceives that it's an unwarranted burden from "their" taxes to pay for all those welfare moms and deadbeat dads and their brats. "Of course, I wouldn't want a child to starve, but..."

And the same way, we have developments full of empty houses, foreclosed homes sitting vacant waiting for demolition and Army bases slated for destruction; homeless people could be living in any of them and most would be happy to do so; but the screams of "I worked hard for my house, you can't just GIVE someone a home because blah blah blah--" would shatter the ionosphere. Nevermind that it would cost taxpayers nothing--and the drain on banks to foreclose and sell the distressed properties is costing us more--but the perception in a larger society is that somehow it is unfair to care for those who cannot care for themselves; whereas in a smaller community, a squatter in a vacant house would be largely ignored as long as he/she didn't bother anyone.


GTFOOH! You make sense and we'll have none of that!

/move along citizen
 
2013-07-17 06:24:13 AM  

jst3p: Any place in Florida called "Bookville" has to be done so ironically.


Maybe they meant to call it Bookingville.
 
2013-07-17 06:32:46 AM  

clambam: .One of the best stories I heard was about "the Rabbi," a Chasidic Jew who waited until the target of his charity were looking the other way, then ran up, stuffed a twenty dollar bill in his cup and ran off before he could be thanked.


An actual, honest to God holy man. I had no idea that there were any left.
 
2013-07-17 07:13:10 AM  
whatever, i'd rather be homeless in miami than homeful (and without money) in western michigan...
 
2013-07-17 07:28:30 AM  

DubyaHater: halB: A few points:

Miami is a loose term for all of Miami-Dade County.

Miami is a very small city within Miami-Dade County with a small population, mainly businesses and crack heads. It's generally been an incredibly shiatty place to even go, but it has been experiencing a renessaince revival with the birth of new condos and an influx of people actually living down town.  One of the few things holding it back is these consistent homeless people who are really messed up in the head.

So please keep this in mind when talking about this problem.

You're right. Revitalizing the downtown area into a snobbish shopping center filled with bistros and boutique shops outweighs the civil rights of American citizens. Miami is a shiathole in spite of the homeless, not because of the homeless


It's not snobbish at all.  I'm unaware of any boutiques in Miami proper.  It's mainly just clubs and crappy electronic and luggage shops to rip off tourists.  There's no reason to go downtown.

They're not asking to violate civil rights.  They're asking for the ability to arrest people who start fires or shiat in the street if those people refuse multiple attempts to get them into a shelter.
 
2013-07-17 07:29:59 AM  
Wow, let's think this through: homeless, on the street, eating scrapes versus 3 hots and a cot. Decisions, decisions.
 
2013-07-17 08:28:25 AM  

Gordon Bennett: clambam: .One of the best stories I heard was about "the Rabbi," a Chasidic Jew who waited until the target of his charity were looking the other way, then ran up, stuffed a twenty dollar bill in his cup and ran off before he could be thanked.

An actual, honest to God holy man. I had no idea that there were any left.


"Do good by stealth, and blush to find it fame." Samuel Coleridge.
 
2013-07-17 08:37:29 AM  

Big_Doofus: Yeah, those charming homeless. They're super awesome!


What a sympathetic fellow you are. A true Christian!
 
2013-07-17 08:58:50 AM  
In jail they are actually taken care of. Meals and medical attention. Do what is best for them.
 
2013-07-17 09:18:17 AM  
The fact is that we do have programs to help the willing get out of homelessness and programs to punish the slothful.  The problem is sorting them properly.
 
2013-07-17 09:36:24 AM  

C18H27NO3: Wasn't jesus homeless?


The new "prosperity gospel" preachers are trying to claim Jesus was actually rather well-to-do.  It takes some real mental contortionism.
 
2013-07-17 09:45:01 AM  
They going to be busy the next time a hurricane comes around
 
2013-07-17 09:56:04 AM  
Weren't they actually considering a program to house the homeless in all the foreclosed homes down there at some point?

I recall hearing a story about how the bank basically let a mother with children stay in a foreclosed house, simply because someone living there and keeping an eye on it is a good thing, it cost the bank nothing, and seemed to work.

Why can't we do this again?  I mean, it would be irritating to constantly move because the foreclosure gets sold, but they are homeless... they do that anyway and it's not like they have lots of furniture to move.
 
2013-07-17 11:20:17 AM  
so police can arrest anyone who blocks a sidewalk, cooks a meal in a public area using a fire, litters, urinates or defecates in public, or engages in lewd conduct, rather than offering those folks a bed to sleep.

Wouldn't people get arrested for doing stuff like this anyway?
 
2013-07-17 11:42:14 AM  

halB: A few points:

Miami is a loose term for all of Miami-Dade County.

Miami is a very small city within Miami-Dade County with a small population, mainly businesses and crack heads. It's generally been an incredibly shiatty place to even go, but it has been experiencing a renessaince revival with the birth of new condos and an influx of people actually living down town.  One of the few things holding it back is these consistent homeless people who are really messed up in the head.

So please keep this in mind when talking about this problem.


I lived in downtown Miami, couple of years ago, in the high rise at 50 Biscayne (would still live there if the building management weren't a complete PITA, but I digress).  Still go to the general area all the time.

There are some homeless people in that area during the day, there are virtually none actually sleeping out at night. I went on evening walks well over 150 times, and I might have seen a half dozen at most.

There's an excellent shelter nearby, in a high rise, with integrated services.  Very well funded thanks to a 40 cent per cocktail tax enacted in the 90s. There are plenty of beds. Plus things like help with benefits paperwork for disability, getting plugged in to rehab programs, assistance finding a job, etc. I moved to Miami from San Francisco, and Miami-Dade's homeless services are a thousand times better.
 
2013-07-17 12:25:21 PM  

overfienduglar: Miami privatized prisons/jails are looking to increase the head count?


Corizon profits raise with every additional inmate added to the system, every private prison built is paid based on headcount....

When you add the incentive of profit to incarceration with private companies selling room and board and security to the state, is it any surprise we find more and more reasons to jail more and more people?
 
2013-07-17 01:02:46 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Snapper Carr: HindiDiscoMonster: Snapper Carr: Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?

When you consider there are as many biblical passages sanctioning this sort of thing as there are condemning it, I'm sure he's able to cherry pick enough material to justify the usual smug right wing christian arrogance.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x163]

Paul gets all kinds of boot-strappy

2 Thessalonians 3:6-12
"Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living."

Invalid reference.  He is speaking of lazy people, or moochers, not people unable to work, but people unwilling to work.


To some people, everyone on government assistance is lazy.


This very same verse was recently used as by GOP Rep Stephen Fincher to justify cutting SNAP citation.)

Doesn't matter how it's originally intended. It matter how it's interpreted.
 
2013-07-17 01:22:42 PM  

Z1P2: Weaver95: I wonder if Sarnoff considers himself a 'good christian'....?

He probably is a good Christian, christianity is not synonymous with communism you know. Charity is what is done with private dollars, not tax dollars. You get no credit from god for robbing peter to give to paul.


*plonk*

(for being an evil human being, utterly lacking morals or basic human decency, whose words I never need see again)
 
2013-07-17 01:44:11 PM  

proteus_b: whatever, i'd rather be homeless in miami than homeful (and without money) in western michigan...


I've been to Honolulu, and it seemed like their homeless were the kings of the homeless world.
 
2013-07-17 01:56:23 PM  
Sounds like a good deal for the homeless - food and shelter for free, and help beating the DTs from any substance abuse. I'd be pissed if I was paying taxes in Miami though.
 
2013-07-17 02:29:08 PM  

Gyrfalcon: homeless people could be living in any of them and most would be happy to do so;


You don't know any homeless ppl, do you? Many want to live outside and would trash the place or burn it down if you just "gave" them a free house.

How about those decent formerly homeowning ppl who had their houses stolen from them by banks? If we are giving away houses, how about we give them their houses back instead of kicking them out and letting dirty bums come in and puke and shiat on the floor for the lulz?
 
2013-07-17 02:59:56 PM  

MisterRonbo: There are some homeless people in that area during the day, there are virtually none actually sleeping out at night. I went on evening walks well over 150 times, and I might have seen a half dozen at most.



For every one that you see, there is a hundred more that you don't see. they are just well hidden.
 
2013-07-17 03:29:11 PM  

WeenerGord: MisterRonbo: There are some homeless people in that area during the day, there are virtually none actually sleeping out at night. I went on evening walks well over 150 times, and I might have seen a half dozen at most.


For every one that you see, there is a hundred more that you don't see. they are just well hidden.


I get the spirit of what you're saying, but here's the thing:

When I lived in San Francisco, I participated in the annual homeless survey. We came up with a number of around 4,500. That was one night, going through every street, every park, etc. Very thorough. Not saying it was 100%, but I find it hard to believe we found anything under 75% of the true number.

On an evening walk in San Francisco, depending on the neighborhood, I'd see some homeless, When I lived in the Western Addition, a huge number. Potrero or Cow Hollow, some but not a lot. The Richmond, almost none.

But poking around downtown Miami and Overton (which is where you'd expect to find the most, the equivalent of Civic Center and the Tenderloin in SF) there were virtually none. Compared to SF, not even 1% of the number.

I don't think it was zealous cops making them hide - the cops seemed both busy with other stuff and not too inclined to be pro-active. I really think Miami does a great job of getting people in to shelter.  If you saw the main shelter building, it's a huge high rise, fairly new.  Even the old one that it replaced was a six or eight story building, the new one is a skyscraper.
 
2013-07-17 04:55:16 PM  
Okay, first the bad news:  None of you appear to have done any research about what the editorial is talking about.  The writer has a clear bias.

The ruling - linked in the article - makes these important points:
  - you can't arrest someone for being homeless, or use it as probable cause for a search & seizure
  - you can't destroy property confiscated from someone who's homeless
  - you cannot arrest someone "for performing innocent, harmless, inoffensive acts such as sleeping, eating, lying down or sitting"

Also important is this phrase, "The court emphasizes that nothing in this order prevents the City from arresting any individual for any criminal activity or for any conduct that is harmful to others or to himself. In addition, nothing in this order affects the ability of police officers to make arrests on private property."

This has resulted in a city policy that if the police find a homeless individual committing minor criminal acts should not be arrested, but instead offered space in a shelter.

So, it's not a law, what's the problem?

The problem is the lobbyists representing the Homeless Trust.  They're trying to block changes to the policy.  They claim that having open fires in the parks, public urination/defecation, nudity (technically for cleaning purposes), and blocking public paths (all of which are already illegal), are considered harmless and inoffensive when performed by homeless individuals, regardless of whether there are alternatives for them, and thus are protected not by policy, but by the ruling as "life-sustaining activities".

Make no mistake - Marc Sarnoff is just trying to respond to the desires of businessmen in the area.  They complain that the homeless affect their business by making customers feel unsafe or disgusted, or block paths.  So he suggested a two part solution:

1) The policy changes to
      - specifically indicate that those illegal items above ~can~ result in arrests for homeless
      - allow arrests of individuals who commit the above offenses 3 times in a 180 day period, and choose not to go to a shelter.
2)  Pay for 100 more beds worth of shelter space (15% of a projected plan, with the rest to be provided by the Homeless Trust)

Sounds good, right?  600+ more beds, it even follows the Homeless Trust Continuum of Care Plan that involves providing housing (even emergency/temporary housing), etc.  There's no violation of rights, or even a return to a jackbooted response.  If the existing shelter system is not perfect only because it's near capacity, isn't this the right fix? So, what is the real issue?

The claim by the HT's chair, Ron Book, that this is not going to 'fix' a homeless problem, but will only warehouse it, that it will just clear them off the streets by dint of forcing them to have a place to live ... which is funny, because that would literally make them not homeless.  So, what's the real issue?
  Chances are the real reason for pushback is budgetary, it would run the city about 165k annually for their 15%, leaving 1.1mil from the HT's coffers.

What you're seeing is probably just an emotional appeal attempting to solicit a liberal response of anger to manipulate an elected official by dint of misinformation and misdirection when it's really about who's pocketbook this is coming out of.
 
2013-07-17 04:58:10 PM  
quietwalker:
What you're seeing is probably just an emotional appeal attempting to solicit a liberal response of anger to manipulate an elected official by dint of misinformation and misdirection when it's really about who's pocketbook this is coming out of.

... and it worked on most of you.
 
2013-07-17 06:21:52 PM  
www.abandonia.com
 
2013-07-17 07:28:57 PM  

Capo Del Bandito: Can't we just eat the homeless?

That could be considered 'green' right?


 

Capo Del Bandito: Can't we just eat the homeless?

That could be considered 'green' right?


It soylently could!
 
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