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(STLToday)   County Council: Here's a plan to build new senior housing in your area. Residents: Meh. Council: Great, this low-income senior housing is almost done. Residents: Low-income? Aw Hell No   (stltoday.com) divider line 96
    More: Dumbass, retirement home, county councils, meh  
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7636 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jul 2013 at 3:00 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



96 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-07-16 01:33:02 PM
Yeah, how dare they put low-income rabble of any age within viewing distance of a nearly $1000 a month pre-K school?
 
2013-07-16 02:23:50 PM
First and foremost, is the contention that residents did not receive proper notification last year when the project was introduced or as it wound its way through the planning and zoning process.

news.dot-nxt.com
 
2013-07-16 02:35:09 PM
Do you get increased crime with low-income seniors?
Wouldn't a senior surviving on Social Security qualify as low-income?
 
2013-07-16 02:39:34 PM
Is it just my browser or did a link to a FB-driven comment thread get green-lit?

If I wanted to read comment threads on Fark, I'd read the COMMENT THREADS on Fark.
 
2013-07-16 02:44:23 PM
The locals kind of come off as complete assholes

/even the nuns
//Noise issues?
///what.... ambulances?
 
2013-07-16 02:50:08 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: The locals kind of come off as complete assholes

/even the nuns
//Noise issues?
///what.... ambulances?


buzzedandbubbly.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-07-16 03:02:56 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: The locals kind of come off as complete assholes

/even the nuns
//Noise issues?
///what.... ambulances?


Old people yelling at clouds.
 
2013-07-16 03:04:32 PM
Do you propose to slaughter our tenants?

Does that not fit in with your plans?
 
2013-07-16 03:05:57 PM
Way to link to the comments section.
 
2013-07-16 03:07:26 PM
NIMBY's can go fark themselves.

It's one thing to oppose a car shredder 500ft or so from a residential neighborhood and a park, but quite another to say "We don't want the poors around us".

//They really are doing that in my city, allowing a car shredder to be placed that close to a residential area
 
2013-07-16 03:07:28 PM
I work for a local government. People get all huffy about stuff like this for no good reason. Here a similar plan came to the planning commission and people biatched because it would bring down housing values and/or become college student housing.

This from a town where people are all about diversity and peace and crap, but NIMBY.
 
2013-07-16 03:07:49 PM
The residents alleged the county intentionally kept quiet about a project which, as one speaker put it, had "so many waivers that it should have raised red flags."

Such as.....?  Hello? Is this thing on? Hello?
 
2013-07-16 03:08:54 PM
 
2013-07-16 03:09:08 PM
So they wait for construction to start before voicing opposition? Too late. Go home and shut up.
 
2013-07-16 03:09:10 PM

factoryconnection: Is it just my browser or did a link to a FB-driven comment thread get green-lit?

If I wanted to read comment threads on Fark, I'd read the COMMENT THREADS on Fark.


No. That happened to me too. I assumed the tag was for Subby.

Correct link: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/oakville-residents-renew-opp o sition-to-senior-living-complex/article_c1dc92d6-9aaf-5e1b-b1fb-87170e 74cde4.html
 
2013-07-16 03:09:18 PM

ElwoodCuse: Do you propose to slaughter our tenants?

Does that not fit in with your plans?


Oh, I see. I hadn't correctly divined your attitude towards your tenants.
 
2013-07-16 03:10:25 PM
People who object to low-income housing are often really objecting to what they imagine will be more brown people living near them.

Idiots.
 
2013-07-16 03:13:59 PM
I object to ALL old people, not just the poor ones.
 
2013-07-16 03:14:50 PM

meat0918: NIMBY's can go fark themselves.

It's one thing to oppose a car shredder 500ft or so from a residential neighborhood and a park, but quite another to say "We don't want the poors around us".


No it's not.  With the poors comes increased crime, and lower property values.  Ghetto is a people, not a place.   Moving it out into my nice suburban paradise isn't going to do anything other than devalue my house.

If you can't afford to live here, go somewhere where you can afford to live.

/ NIMBY
 
2013-07-16 03:14:57 PM

Sybarite: First and foremost, is the contention that residents did not receive proper notification last year when the project was introduced or as it wound its way through the planning and zoning process.

[news.dot-nxt.com image 250x186]


I bet there were postings, placed parallel to the street in the empty lot, rather than at an angle that can actually be viewed by passerbys.
 
2013-07-16 03:17:06 PM

abfalter: People who object to low-income housing are often really objecting to what they imagine will be more brown people living near them.

Idiots.


It ties in with their fears of lower property values, more traffic, more crime; that whole idiot and kaboodle you mention.  The best part with this story (though I didn't RTFA) is that it's senior housing.  How many seniors are knocking off liquor stores and encouraging gun and pawn shops to move in while tagging buildings with graffiti?  I suppose the ambulance traffic might be distracting.
 
2013-07-16 03:18:13 PM

Rent Party: meat0918: NIMBY's can go fark themselves.

It's one thing to oppose a car shredder 500ft or so from a residential neighborhood and a park, but quite another to say "We don't want the poors around us".

No it's not.  With the poors comes increased crime, and lower property values.  Ghetto is a people, not a place.   Moving it out into my nice suburban paradise isn't going to do anything other than devalue my house.

If you can't afford to live here, go somewhere where you can afford to live.

/ NIMBY


My experience is absentee landlords that couldn't really give a fark who they rent to as long as the rent check is on time do far more damage to property values than "low income" home owners.
 
2013-07-16 03:19:30 PM
Because in the United States, everyone is middle class.
 
2013-07-16 03:20:56 PM

Rent Party: No it's not.  With the poors comes increased crime, and lower property values.  Ghetto is a people, not a place.   Moving it out into my nice suburban paradise GULAG isn't going to do anything other than devalue my house.


FTFY.
 
2013-07-16 03:23:34 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: The locals kind of come off as complete assholes

/even the nuns
//Noise issues?
///what.... ambulances?


Actually, one of the complaints of an older acquaintance of mine that is retired and lives in a senior living community is that you get a lot of ambulances some times and all the associated noise, as people seem to get hurt/die in clusters of activity.
 
2013-07-16 03:23:36 PM
i.imgur.com
/now that's a meme
 
2013-07-16 03:28:28 PM

Nana's Vibrator: abfalter: People who object to low-income housing are often really objecting to what they imagine will be more brown people living near them.

Idiots.

It ties in with their fears of lower property values, more traffic, more crime; that whole idiot and kaboodle you mention.  The best part with this story (though I didn't RTFA) is that it's senior housing.  How many seniors are knocking off liquor stores and encouraging gun and pawn shops to move in while tagging buildings with graffiti?  I suppose the ambulance traffic might be distracting.


How about visitors?
 
2013-07-16 03:30:29 PM

JohnAnnArbor: How about visitors?


Not an issue.
 
2013-07-16 03:30:56 PM
I'd rather have low-income seniors nearby than some Sun City assholes. At least you won't be surrounded by Alzheimer-piloted golf carts and homes straight out of Edward Scissorhands.
 
2013-07-16 03:31:42 PM

Rent Party: No it's not. With the poors comes increased crime, and lower property values. Ghetto is a people, not a place. Moving it out into my nice suburban paradise isn't going to do anything other than devalue my house.

If you can't afford to live here, go somewhere where you can afford to live.


Cause we all know how rowdy thos old folks can get

Slangin' and Bangin'.  Dealin' crack out of their nursing home.  Gold dentures.  Throwin up gang signs (if their arthritis is not acting up)
 
PJ-
2013-07-16 03:31:51 PM

Nana's Vibrator: abfalter: People who object to low-income housing are often really objecting to what they imagine will be more brown people living near them.

Idiots.

It ties in with their fears of lower property values, more traffic, more crime; that whole idiot and kaboodle you mention.  The best part with this story (though I didn't RTFA) is that it's senior housing.  How many seniors are knocking off liquor stores and encouraging gun and pawn shops to move in while tagging buildings with graffiti?  I suppose the ambulance traffic might be distracting.


Thing is though, there is a difference between zoning for a retirement community and zoning for low-income earners.  Odds are that someone with some civil planning took a closer look at the development plan and realized that it's wide open to having welfare recipients to completely dominate the area.  I'm pretty sure most of you here know how easy welfare cases chase off anybody they don't like.  For example:  Detroit.
 
2013-07-16 03:34:32 PM
...a proposal that sailed through the planning process unnoticed and unopposed barely a year ago.

I may be naive when comes to city councils and local governments, but the townsfolk are complaining about something that was already approved and was not objected to previously?

/rabble rabble rabble
 
2013-07-16 03:36:18 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: I object to ALL old people, not just the poor ones.


Besides, old people don't need companionship. They need to be isolated and studied so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use.
 
2013-07-16 03:38:55 PM

JohnAnnArbor: Nana's Vibrator: abfalter: People who object to low-income housing are often really objecting to what they imagine will be more brown people living near them.

Idiots.

It ties in with their fears of lower property values, more traffic, more crime; that whole idiot and kaboodle you mention.  The best part with this story (though I didn't RTFA) is that it's senior housing.  How many seniors are knocking off liquor stores and encouraging gun and pawn shops to move in while tagging buildings with graffiti?  I suppose the ambulance traffic might be distracting.

How about visitors?


Who the hell visits old people?  Gross.
 
2013-07-16 03:39:48 PM

Nana's Vibrator: abfalter: People who object to low-income housing are often really objecting to what they imagine will be more brown people living near them.

Idiots.

It ties in with their fears of lower property values, more traffic, more crime; that whole idiot and kaboodle you mention.  The best part with this story (though I didn't RTFA) is that it's senior housing.  How many seniors are knocking off liquor stores and encouraging gun and pawn shops to move in while tagging buildings with graffiti?  I suppose the ambulance traffic might be distracting.


I just don't want to see those old people walking around with their sagging pants.
 
2013-07-16 03:44:35 PM
That Samantha needs to get a job
 
2013-07-16 03:45:02 PM
For the clarity of non-st louisans, this is in south county, i.e. whitey land. People in south county probably get a rash if you're from Iowa, because you aren't from around here. There was a proposal to extend the metro link to south county years ago-- the natives fought it hard because omg, the blacks might use it and get us. South county is pretty much populated by people who white-flighted. So low-income==black, is such a world view.

\I'm not claiming the rest of stl is particularly enlightened, just that this bit is especially unenlightened
\\My public high school was highly asian and jewish, so there are are pockets of diversity, like most places
 
2013-07-16 03:46:27 PM
I would need more information to know if they have a legitimate complaint.

If their "nursing homes" are anything like those in Chicago, they are basically glorified halfway houses for the mentally ill more than traditional nursing homes for the elderly.

My neighborhood is famous in the city for having a lot of such "nursing homes" in the area, and because of that it's basically an open-air asylum where the residents spend most of the day outside screaming at buildings and feeding vermin and punching the alderman.  I can understand not being a fan of something like that opening in the area.

if it's just another quiet place to send grandma to die?  Meh.
 
2013-07-16 03:47:12 PM

Arkanaut: Nana's Vibrator: abfalter: People who object to low-income housing are often really objecting to what they imagine will be more brown people living near them.

Idiots.

It ties in with their fears of lower property values, more traffic, more crime; that whole idiot and kaboodle you mention.  The best part with this story (though I didn't RTFA) is that it's senior housing.  How many seniors are knocking off liquor stores and encouraging gun and pawn shops to move in while tagging buildings with graffiti?  I suppose the ambulance traffic might be distracting.

I just don't want to see those old people walking around with their sagging pants.


Those aren't their pants that are sagging.
 
2013-07-16 03:55:52 PM

Qellaqan: For the clarity of non-st louisans, this is in south county, i.e. whitey land. People in south county probably get a rash if you're from Iowa, because you aren't from around here. There was a proposal to extend the metro link to south county years ago-- the natives fought it hard because omg, the blacks might use it and get us. South county is pretty much populated by people who white-flighted. So low-income==black, is such a world view.

\I'm not claiming the rest of stl is particularly enlightened, just that this bit is especially unenlightened
\\My public high school was highly asian and jewish, so there are are pockets of diversity, like most places


i just looked closer at the picture, and yup, pretty much middle-aged to old white people everywhere. they don't want poor black elderly people in the neighbourhood and having their gangbanger kids & grandkids hanging around.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-07-16 03:58:16 PM
You just know where this is headed, dontcha?
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-07-16 04:00:16 PM

theknuckler_33: No. That happened to me too. I assumed the tag was for Subby.

Correct link: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/oakville-residents-renew-opp o sition-to-senior-living-complex/article_c1dc92d6-9aaf-5e1b-b1fb-87170e 74cde4.html


Thanks.  So the actual article speaks of a "laundry list" of problems with it and lots of "waivers" on the application, but can't enumerate them?  I'm not really buying the "dumpster is too close to the school!" argument... the school no doubt has dumpsters as well!
 
2013-07-16 04:01:27 PM

meat0918: Rent Party: meat0918: NIMBY's can go fark themselves.

It's one thing to oppose a car shredder 500ft or so from a residential neighborhood and a park, but quite another to say "We don't want the poors around us".

No it's not.  With the poors comes increased crime, and lower property values.  Ghetto is a people, not a place.   Moving it out into my nice suburban paradise isn't going to do anything other than devalue my house.

If you can't afford to live here, go somewhere where you can afford to live.

/ NIMBY

My experience is absentee landlords that couldn't really give a fark who they rent to as long as the rent check is on time do far more damage to property values than "low income" home owners.


Then you're not very experienced.
 
2013-07-16 04:03:50 PM
The comments on that article are kinda great...featuring a "how dare you call us racists, everybody knows all old people are pedophiles" defense.
 
2013-07-16 04:03:57 PM

Qellaqan: For the clarity of non-st louisans, this is in south county, i.e. whitey land. People in south county probably get a rash if you're from Iowa, because you aren't from around here. There was a proposal to extend the metro link to south county years ago-- the natives fought it hard because omg, the blacks might use it and get us. South county is pretty much populated by people who white-flighted. So low-income==black, is such a world view.

\I'm not claiming the rest of stl is particularly enlightened, just that this bit is especially unenlightened
\\My public high school was highly asian and jewish, so there are are pockets of diversity, like most places


From wikipedia.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakville,_Missouri
As of the  of 2010, there were 36,143 people, 13,788 households, and 10,511 families residing in the CDP. The racial makeup of the CDP was 96.0% white...

'Nuff said.
 
2013-07-16 04:04:12 PM
A couple of years ago I had a landlord who was complaining to everyone about a new housing development in the neighborhood that included housing for "low income" people. To her, and I think to many (at least here) "low income" is a euphemism for "people who are probably not white."

It never occurred to her than many of her tenants qualified as "low income." And that dammit, low income people need a farking place to live too, and that shuffling poor people off to giant ghettos is a demonstrably failed idea.
 
2013-07-16 04:12:42 PM

Crackpipe: A couple of years ago I had a landlord who was complaining to everyone about a new housing development in the neighborhood that included housing for "low income" people. To her, and I think to many (at least here) "low income" is a euphemism for "people who are probably not white."

It never occurred to her than many of her tenants qualified as "low income." And that dammit, low income people need a farking place to live too, and that shuffling poor people off to giant ghettos is a demonstrably failed idea.


it's all about how you define low income, too.

in my area low income assistance stops at $75k combined income for a family - in an area where cost of living is like $100k for a family. So people can get houses (cheap as fark low income houses) in decent areas, but then foreclose because they can't afford the payments.
 
2013-07-16 04:15:09 PM

EvilEgg: Do you get increased crime with low-income seniors?
Wouldn't a senior surviving on Social Security qualify as low-income?


The problem here in St. Louis is that most people hear the words Low Income and immediately think black. White people in the county here are scared of black people. That's why we can't get the light rail system anywhere close to West St. Louis county and why there is an uproar about students in unaccredited school districts being able to transfer to county schools.
 
2013-07-16 04:15:12 PM

Nana's Vibrator: Arkanaut: Nana's Vibrator: abfalter: People who object to low-income housing are often really objecting to what they imagine will be more brown people living near them.

Idiots.

It ties in with their fears of lower property values, more traffic, more crime; that whole idiot and kaboodle you mention.  The best part with this story (though I didn't RTFA) is that it's senior housing.  How many seniors are knocking off liquor stores and encouraging gun and pawn shops to move in while tagging buildings with graffiti?  I suppose the ambulance traffic might be distracting.

I just don't want to see those old people walking around with their sagging pants.

Those aren't their pants that are sagging.


Yeah... they're not WEARING pants

/wait...
//ewww
 
2013-07-16 04:17:30 PM
Another critic, Sister Mary Elizabeth of the neighboring Monastery of St. Clare, ticked off a laundry list of faults with the project ranging from lighting to noise, privacy to fencing.

"We are praying, since that is our job, that they can find a better piece of land in a much better location," Sister Mary Elizabeth said.


That's not very Christian of you Sister Mary Elizabeth.
 
2013-07-16 04:17:53 PM

Clint_Torres: ...a proposal that sailed through the planning process unnoticed and unopposed barely a year ago.

I may be naive when comes to city councils and local governments, but the townsfolk are complaining about something that was already approved and was not objected to previously?

/rabble rabble rabble


d2om8tvz4lgco4.cloudfront.net
 
2013-07-16 04:18:25 PM

Qellaqan: For the clarity of non-st louisans, this is in south county, i.e. whitey land. People in south county probably get a rash if you're from Iowa, because you aren't from around here. There was a proposal to extend the metro link to south county years ago-- the natives fought it hard because omg, the blacks might use it and get us. South county is pretty much populated by people who white-flighted. So low-income==black, is such a world view.

\I'm not claiming the rest of stl is particularly enlightened, just that this bit is especially unenlightened
\\My public high school was highly asian and jewish, so there are are pockets of diversity, like most places


Parkway Central?
 
2013-07-16 04:20:34 PM
Subby here:

I was browsing the comments when I decided to submit a headline, and did not realize that the URL had changed on me.  My apologies to everyone for the mishap.


/facepalm
//self chairshot
 
2013-07-16 04:22:44 PM

JSam21: EvilEgg: Do you get increased crime with low-income seniors?
Wouldn't a senior surviving on Social Security qualify as low-income?

The problem here in St. Louis is that most people hear the words Low Income and immediately think black. White people in the county here are scared of black people. That's why we can't get the light rail system anywhere close to West St. Louis county and why there is an uproar about students in unaccredited school districts being able to transfer to county schools.


mmm I think the uproar about the schools transfer thing is more about numbers for most people. St louis public schools are like 20,000 students-- if you relocate all those kids, how are you *not* going to massively damage the nearby schools? Then there would actually be justification for white flight, even being close to the bad districts could fark your district.

But yea, this is stl, so there's always race in it somewhere. But *I* wouldn't want a bunch of kids with broken educations flooding into my school. You don't fix one education experience by ruining another.

There was deseg at my school, and that seemed to tug the averages down enough, and those were kids whose families cared. 18% of the school was bus in from the city, and in my time in hs, 3 city kids were in my honors classes.
 
2013-07-16 04:23:39 PM
fark NIMBY
 
2013-07-16 04:25:21 PM

JSam21: Qellaqan: For the clarity of non-st louisans, this is in south county, i.e. whitey land. People in south county probably get a rash if you're from Iowa, because you aren't from around here. There was a proposal to extend the metro link to south county years ago-- the natives fought it hard because omg, the blacks might use it and get us. South county is pretty much populated by people who white-flighted. So low-income==black, is such a world view.

\I'm not claiming the rest of stl is particularly enlightened, just that this bit is especially unenlightened
\\My public high school was highly asian and jewish, so there are are pockets of diversity, like most places

Parkway Central?


My only guess.
 
2013-07-16 04:25:22 PM

arbitterm: fark NIMBY


Is she hawt?
 
2013-07-16 04:25:50 PM

JSam21: Qellaqan: For the clarity of non-st louisans, this is in south county, i.e. whitey land. People in south county probably get a rash if you're from Iowa, because you aren't from around here. There was a proposal to extend the metro link to south county years ago-- the natives fought it hard because omg, the blacks might use it and get us. South county is pretty much populated by people who white-flighted. So low-income==black, is such a world view.

\I'm not claiming the rest of stl is particularly enlightened, just that this bit is especially unenlightened
\\My public high school was highly asian and jewish, so there are are pockets of diversity, like most places

Parkway Central?


Ha yes, though I think I've heard Ladue is diverse in that way too. Sometimes the Catholic schools at a sporting event would chant "god's on our side", to which the proper response was "we're all jewish"

\20% jewish most of the time, 80% on jewish holidays.
 
2013-07-16 04:28:00 PM
Having dealt with one that was a "done deal" when we first heard hints about it....

These projects are taxpayer ripoffs that make lotsa money for all involved.

The "charity" developers are financing these with $million in money that comes from tax credits sold to major corporations.
You'll notice that there are "development" divisions of major banks doing the financing.

It goes like this:

NYSE: ABC corp provides $20 million in capital.
NYSE: ABC corp pays $20 million less income tax this fiscal year.

In other words, they provided money that would have gone to the US treasury.

Better,
NYSE: ABC depreciates the$20 million investment from it'staxes over the next 10-20 years.
Yep, they write off money they didn't spend from their taxes a 2nd time.

You'll see that there lots of these senior projects popping up everywhere even though they have to scrounge for residents because there's little demand.
The demand is for the money shenanigans.

And as subby thinks, if you oppose this yer just a wasist asshat.  They've got the system down to science.
 
2013-07-16 04:32:14 PM

silverjets: Another critic, Sister Mary Elizabeth of the neighboring Monastery of St. Clare, ticked off a laundry list of faults with the project ranging from lighting to noise, privacy to fencing.

"We are praying, since that is our job, that they can find a better piece of land in a much better location," Sister Mary Elizabeth said.

That's not very Christian of you Sister Mary Elizabeth.


We said exactly the same thing. They'll paint Sister Mary as a bigot like you did.

It's not strange that nobody knew about the project.  That how they do it.

In our case they quietly spoke only to churches for endorsements while the village was saying THERE ARE NO PLANS!

"Did you reach out to teh community?"
Of course.
"To who? The neighbors?"
No, to the churches.

You're against this?  You heathen wassist!
 
2013-07-16 04:35:05 PM

Qellaqan: JSam21: Qellaqan: For the clarity of non-st louisans, this is in south county, i.e. whitey land. People in south county probably get a rash if you're from Iowa, because you aren't from around here. There was a proposal to extend the metro link to south county years ago-- the natives fought it hard because omg, the blacks might use it and get us. South county is pretty much populated by people who white-flighted. So low-income==black, is such a world view.

\I'm not claiming the rest of stl is particularly enlightened, just that this bit is especially unenlightened
\\My public high school was highly asian and jewish, so there are are pockets of diversity, like most places

Parkway Central?

Ha yes, though I think I've heard Ladue is diverse in that way too. Sometimes the Catholic schools at a sporting event would chant "god's on our side", to which the proper response was "we're all jewish"

\20% jewish most of the time, 80% on jewish holidays.


I remember the unwritten rule in Parkway that no sporting events be scheduled against Central on Jewish holidays.
 
2013-07-16 04:35:13 PM
When my parents lived in North County they lived in a pretty nice neighborhood but it was juuuust cheap enough to get section 8 tenants in it.  They would do nifty things like change the oil in the car by parking it out in the driveway and unscrewing the drain pan and just letting the oil run down the driveway and street and into the sewers.  There was another family that was paying $18/month for a 3 bedroom house with a pool.  You can guess how well they kept that place up.
 
2013-07-16 04:41:17 PM

Qellaqan: JSam21: Qellaqan: For the clarity of non-st louisans, this is in south county, i.e. whitey land. People in south county probably get a rash if you're from Iowa, because you aren't from around here. There was a proposal to extend the metro link to south county years ago-- the natives fought it hard because omg, the blacks might use it and get us. South county is pretty much populated by people who white-flighted. So low-income==black, is such a world view.

\I'm not claiming the rest of stl is particularly enlightened, just that this bit is especially unenlightened
\\My public high school was highly asian and jewish, so there are are pockets of diversity, like most places

Parkway Central?

Ha yes, though I think I've heard Ladue is diverse in that way too. Sometimes the Catholic schools at a sporting event would chant "god's on our side", to which the proper response was "we're all jewish"

\20% jewish most of the time, 80% on jewish holidays.


I went to a Catholic school down 141 from you that was too busy losing at sports besides baseball and girls basketball to really chant anything
 
2013-07-16 04:42:16 PM

TheGreatGazoo: When my parents lived in North County they lived in a pretty nice neighborhood but it was juuuust cheap enough to get section 8 tenants in it.  They would do nifty things like change the oil in the car by parking it out in the driveway and unscrewing the drain pan and just letting the oil run down the driveway and street and into the sewers.  There was another family that was paying $18/month for a 3 bedroom house with a pool.  You can guess how well they kept that place up.


If I could get a house for $18 a month I would pimp that house out.
 
2013-07-16 04:43:03 PM

KidneyStone: meat0918: Rent Party: meat0918: NIMBY's can go fark themselves.

It's one thing to oppose a car shredder 500ft or so from a residential neighborhood and a park, but quite another to say "We don't want the poors around us".

No it's not.  With the poors comes increased crime, and lower property values.  Ghetto is a people, not a place.   Moving it out into my nice suburban paradise isn't going to do anything other than devalue my house.

If you can't afford to live here, go somewhere where you can afford to live.

/ NIMBY

My experience is absentee landlords that couldn't really give a fark who they rent to as long as the rent check is on time do far more damage to property values than "low income" home owners.

Then you're not very experienced.


I live in the lowest income neighborhood in my city.  I've lived in low income housing as a renter earlier in life as well.  The majority of other renters were just trying to get by, and then you had a handful that were problems.

The absentee landlord not caring 20 people are living in a 4 bedroom house is the bigger problem (the one I have in mind is a coworkers father-in-law that kicked them off the property to sell to his son-in-law).

The worst properties on my block are renters.  The caveat is, the renters themselves complain about their landlord not keeping up with maintenance.

When people say low income, they mean minorities.  I've even had some of them admit as much when objecting to any proposed low income housing, regardless of where it is in the city.
 
2013-07-16 04:43:04 PM
NIMBY Powers, Activate!!!

Shape of a crowd of douchebags!
 
2013-07-16 04:47:54 PM
There is a problem here in rural California of builders taking advantage of government subsidies to build low income housing to the exclusion of everything else, because the project has guaranteed funding.   So in our little po-dunk town, we have a very odd thing - if you are a normal, work-a-day person who earns a good living, you can't rent a decent apartment to save your life.   There are brand new beautiful apartment complexes that are low income only, and the only choices for working professionals is either run down, old apartments nearby or normal, newer apartment complexes over 30 minutes away in the next big suburb.    With each new construction came a lot of crime.   The apartments themselves are well maintained on the outside, but the crime rate around them has shot up significantly.    A recent multi-agency code violation and assisted housing raid netted 59 arrests. A lot of people come here to hide out and game the system.
 
2013-07-16 04:54:35 PM

JSam21: TheGreatGazoo: When my parents lived in North County they lived in a pretty nice neighborhood but it was juuuust cheap enough to get section 8 tenants in it.  They would do nifty things like change the oil in the car by parking it out in the driveway and unscrewing the drain pan and just letting the oil run down the driveway and street and into the sewers.  There was another family that was paying $18/month for a 3 bedroom house with a pool.  You can guess how well they kept that place up.

If I could get a house for $18 a month I would pimp that house out.


I would rent 30 of them and live in each one for one day a month.
 
2013-07-16 05:14:39 PM

Jument: JSam21: TheGreatGazoo: When my parents lived in North County they lived in a pretty nice neighborhood but it was juuuust cheap enough to get section 8 tenants in it.  They would do nifty things like change the oil in the car by parking it out in the driveway and unscrewing the drain pan and just letting the oil run down the driveway and street and into the sewers.  There was another family that was paying $18/month for a 3 bedroom house with a pool.  You can guess how well they kept that place up.

If I could get a house for $18 a month I would pimp that house out.

I would rent 30 of them and live in each one for one day a month.


I'd bang two chicks at the same time.
 
2013-07-16 05:15:32 PM
I hear this stuff every day as well. NIMBYs need to realize they will not always be in the same age and possibily income bracket for their entire lives. Which is why it's so easy to paint them in the corner of: "I don't like people that aren't white", because your color is the only thing that's not guranteed to change.

Twenty years from now, when you're looking for senior housing, you'll wonder why all the places you get to chose from are located next to industrial parks, highways, and "rental" housing.

/"Rental" around here automatically draws a false picture of government assisted housing
//worked for a community where a family of 4 making less than 60k qualified for "affordable housing".
 
2013-07-16 05:17:16 PM

TheGreatGazoo: When my parents lived in North County they lived in a pretty nice neighborhood but it was juuuust cheap enough to get section 8 tenants in it.  They would do nifty things like change the oil in the car by parking it out in the driveway and unscrewing the drain pan and just letting the oil run down the driveway and street and into the sewers.  There was another family that was paying $18/month for a 3 bedroom house with a pool.  You can guess how well they kept that place up.


You do know the landlord has to sign up and accept housing assistance to get section 8 tenants moving in, right? Yeah, they sound like crappy tenants, but it falls back on the landlord for accepting section 8 in the first place. Aside from all that, a section 8 landlord can still choose his tenants based on non-discriminatory factors (ie too many people living there, history of damaging former rental properties, previous noise complaints, etc). IN ADDITION, if the landlord is paying attention to his property, the landlord would notice things being done like letting oil drain in the driveway and take action against the lessee if such things are forbidden.

I've lived near some houses that had wonderful section 8 tenants, I've lived in other neighborhoods where the owner did not take it, yet my neighbors did things like you describe.
 
2013-07-16 05:18:38 PM
Well I guess we can add old people to the list of groups republicans hate.
 
2013-07-16 05:20:54 PM

ghettodwarf: Jument: JSam21: TheGreatGazoo: When my parents lived in North County they lived in a pretty nice neighborhood but it was juuuust cheap enough to get section 8 tenants in it.  They would do nifty things like change the oil in the car by parking it out in the driveway and unscrewing the drain pan and just letting the oil run down the driveway and street and into the sewers.  There was another family that was paying $18/month for a 3 bedroom house with a pool.  You can guess how well they kept that place up.

If I could get a house for $18 a month I would pimp that house out.

I would rent 30 of them and live in each one for one day a month.

I'd bang two chicks at the same time.


I don't think you need an $18/month house to do that...
 
2013-07-16 05:29:42 PM

netringer: Having dealt with one that was a "done deal" when we first heard hints about it....

These projects are taxpayer ripoffs that make lotsa money for all involved.

The "charity" developers are financing these with $million in money that comes from tax credits sold to major corporations.
You'll notice that there are "development" divisions of major banks doing the financing.

It goes like this:

NYSE: ABC corp provides $20 million in capital.
NYSE: ABC corp pays $20 million less income tax this fiscal year.

In other words, they provided money that would have gone to the US treasury.

Better,
NYSE: ABC depreciates the$20 million investment from it'staxes over the next 10-20 years.
Yep, they write off money they didn't spend from their taxes a 2nd time.

You'll see that there lots of these senior projects popping up everywhere even though they have to scrounge for residents because there's little demand.
The demand is for the money shenanigans.

And as subby thinks, if you oppose this yer just a wasist asshat.  They've got the system down to science.


I can't speak specifically for the St. Louis area, but multiple housing studies have indicated a strong shortage of senior housing in my area (suburban Chicago), and it's going to continue to get worse as boomers age, housing costs rise (including taxes) and housing style continues to include multiple levels that aren't handicap accessible. Condo buildings have become default senior housing developments without the age appropriate amenities.
 
2013-07-16 05:29:44 PM
in st louis, about 80% of the crime is coming from 20% of the population... can you guess which part?

/they shouldn't worry about the old folks home though; noone's going to go visit their grannie unless they can get medicaid to pay for a cab out there...
 
2013-07-16 05:42:23 PM

proteus_b: in st louis, about 80% of the crime is coming from 20% of the population... can you guess which part?

/they shouldn't worry about the old folks home though; noone's going to go visit their grannie unless they can get medicaid to pay for a cab out there...


You sound exactly like a resident of St. Charles county.
 
2013-07-16 05:51:33 PM

JSam21: ghettodwarf: Jument: JSam21: TheGreatGazoo: When my parents lived in North County they lived in a pretty nice neighborhood but it was juuuust cheap enough to get section 8 tenants in it.  They would do nifty things like change the oil in the car by parking it out in the driveway and unscrewing the drain pan and just letting the oil run down the driveway and street and into the sewers.  There was another family that was paying $18/month for a 3 bedroom house with a pool.  You can guess how well they kept that place up.

If I could get a house for $18 a month I would pimp that house out.

I would rent 30 of them and live in each one for one day a month.

I'd bang two chicks at the same time.

I don't think you need an $18/month house to do that...


You do to get the kinda chicks that would double-up on me.
 
2013-07-16 06:02:49 PM
Disaster Transport: ...
And as subby thinks, if you oppose this yer just a wasist asshat.  They've got the system down to science.

I can't speak specifically for the St. Louis area, but multiple housing studies have indicated a strong shortage of senior housing in my area (suburban Chicago), and it's going to continue to get worse as boomers age, housing costs rise (including taxes) and housing style continues to include multiple levels that aren't handicap accessible. Condo buildings have become default senior housing developments without the age appropriate amenities.



I'm in suburban Chicago.  We have a Senior Center that has never been 100% full BEFORE this monster was built.


The system creates those studies that show the need, too.

AFTER the sucker was built they had to open an office with consultants to tell seniors how to hide their assets so they could be poor enough to qualify.
They defined seniors as being 55 or older.  Why?  Because there weren't enough warm bodies 65 or older to move in.

The village wanted a promise that resident would be drawn from the local area. The developers giggled into their armpits and said they'd try.  Then they opened it up to those 50 miles away.

They went in front of the zoning board and decried us heathen wassits who wanted changes.  They bussed in testimony from hundreds of miles away.  Wassist, all of us.  In the end they said that anything they wanted to do (promised or in the future) was being approved, and they were right.  They got even more than they could have asked for.

Then we see announcements of a half dozen new projects around the area.  Again.  Money needs to be "invested," just like there was a need for mortgages becuase woney need to invest in them.  Unsurprisingly the highly-paid managers of the "charity" front are former Wall Streeters.  Follow the money.
 
2013-07-16 06:05:05 PM

mjohnson71: You sound exactly like a resident of St. Charles county.


And the rest of St Louis County...  I'd rather be raped and murdered in Jennings than spend one night in St Charles....
 
2013-07-16 06:15:17 PM

ghettodwarf: JSam21: ghettodwarf: Jument: JSam21: TheGreatGazoo: When my parents lived in North County they lived in a pretty nice neighborhood but it was juuuust cheap enough to get section 8 tenants in it.  They would do nifty things like change the oil in the car by parking it out in the driveway and unscrewing the drain pan and just letting the oil run down the driveway and street and into the sewers.  There was another family that was paying $18/month for a 3 bedroom house with a pool.  You can guess how well they kept that place up.

If I could get a house for $18 a month I would pimp that house out.

I would rent 30 of them and live in each one for one day a month.

I'd bang two chicks at the same time.

I don't think you need an $18/month house to do that...

You do to get the kinda chicks that would double-up on me.


+5 internets
 
2013-07-16 06:24:05 PM
Where are all the anti-HOA, property rights advocates?  We have a case where a property owner may not be allowed to do what they want with their property.  I expected to see more outrage against this "taking" of property by the community.
 
2013-07-16 07:10:31 PM
It's amusing that people want to live in places with conveniently located services (like "senior housing") but don't want it near them.

It's gotta be near somebody, you farking idiots.

Americans are morons.
 
2013-07-16 07:20:06 PM

TheGreatGazoo: When my parents lived in North County they lived in a pretty nice neighborhood but it was juuuust cheap enough to get section 8 tenants in it.  They would do nifty things like change the oil in the car by parking it out in the driveway and unscrewing the drain pan and just letting the oil run down the driveway and street and into the sewers.  There was another family that was paying $18/month for a 3 bedroom house with a pool.  You can guess how well they kept that place up.


We had a woman move her elderly mother out, take out a mortgage on mom's house, make one payment, then rent it as a Section 8 house while foreclosure was pending.  So in a neighborhood of doctors, lawyers, professors, etc. , we had a woman and her 8 adult sons, all of whom were in a gang.  They used the house as a gang flop house/safe house, and sold drugs from it.  When the cops finally came looking for one of her sons (found him in the attic space above the garage in body armor), they had all sorts of cash, drugs and guns in the house.  Section 8 just sat on their hands for months about evicting her for violation of the rules, such as criminal activity, non-vetted family members living in the unit, etc.
 
2013-07-16 07:34:37 PM

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's amusing that people want to live in places with conveniently located services (like "senior housing") but don't want it near them.

It's gotta be near somebody, you farking idiots.

Americans are morons.


In my case it was 4 story building crammed on to a lot in a neighborhood zoned residential with 2 story limit.

No probelmo. They just created a new zoning category called "senior housing" and re-zoned this one location.

I used to like seeing the sun on that side.

Just today I read in the village newsletter that they're building a sidewalk past the monster and my house - another thing they swore was not going to happen.  Not that they needed to talk to me about it. This allows them to park in our cul-de-sac because they lack enough parking for 100 cars in their crammed lot, just like we said, in spite of the village selling them the street.
 
2013-07-16 07:49:13 PM

Qellaqan: For the clarity of non-st louisans, this is in south county, i.e. whitey land. People in south county probably get a rash if you're from Iowa, because you aren't from around here. There was a proposal to extend the metro link to south county years ago-- the natives fought it hard because omg, the blacks might use it and get us. South county is pretty much populated by people who white-flighted. So low-income==black, is such a world view.

\I'm not claiming the rest of stl is particularly enlightened, just that this bit is especially unenlightened
\\My public high school was highly asian and jewish, so there are are pockets of diversity, like most places


Context is all. I now understand what the furore is all about.

/Was having difficulty understanding why they were objecting to old people as if they were drug addicts
//Now realise that in their eyes being poor/black is a worse crime
 
2013-07-16 07:49:28 PM

netringer: Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's amusing that people want to live in places with conveniently located services (like "senior housing") but don't want it near them.

It's gotta be near somebody, you farking idiots.

Americans are morons.

In my case it was 4 story building crammed on to a lot in a neighborhood zoned residential with 2 story limit.

No probelmo. They just created a new zoning category called "senior housing" and re-zoned this one location.

I used to like seeing the sun on that side.

Just today I read in the village newsletter that they're building a sidewalk past the monster and my house - another thing they swore was not going to happen.  Not that they needed to talk to me about it. This allows them to park in our cul-de-sac because they lack enough parking for 100 cars in their crammed lot, just like we said, in spite of the village selling them the street.


Infill is gonna happen, and people are going to be pissed it is happening in their neighborhood.

I have similar stories from my city regarding infill (lots of tax breaks for developments of all sorts, not just low income or seniors), but one neighborhood advocate managed to extort have the developer pay him $260,000 to drop his lawsuit.

1,200 resident student housing.  This is actually somewhat necessary, but it's gonna be a nightmare for the neighborhood surrounding the university, which is already 90% rentals, and could have been done a hell of a lot better.

I'm kinda resigned to it (infill), given Oregon's urban growth boundaries and its resistance to urban sprawl.
 
2013-07-16 07:51:54 PM
i.imgur.com

Who wants old folks like  this in your neighborhood?

/this kids looks happy, but what the hell?
 
2013-07-16 08:08:22 PM
meat0918:

My experience is absentee landlords that couldn't really give a fark who they rent to as long as the rent check is on time do far more damage to property values than "low income" home owners.

Landlords?  Live somewhere that the residents own their homes, and you will find a whole lot less of that crap.   My HOA specifically limits the number of rentals allowed in the area specifically to control for this.
 
2013-07-16 08:46:10 PM

Qellaqan: JSam21: EvilEgg: Do you get increased crime with low-income seniors?
Wouldn't a senior surviving on Social Security qualify as low-income?

The problem here in St. Louis is that most people hear the words Low Income and immediately think black. White people in the county here are scared of black people. That's why we can't get the light rail system anywhere close to West St. Louis county and why there is an uproar about students in unaccredited school districts being able to transfer to county schools.

mmm I think the uproar about the schools transfer thing is more about numbers for most people. St louis public schools are like 20,000 students-- if you relocate all those kids, how are you *not* going to massively damage the nearby schools? Then there would actually be justification for white flight, even being close to the bad districts could fark your district.

But yea, this is stl, so there's always race in it somewhere. But *I* wouldn't want a bunch of kids with broken educations flooding into my school. You don't fix one education experience by ruining another.

There was deseg at my school, and that seemed to tug the averages down enough, and those were kids whose families cared. 18% of the school was bus in from the city, and in my time in hs, 3 city kids were in my honors classes.


I went to Lafayette. That's three more city kids in honors classes than I had.
 
2013-07-16 09:01:12 PM
OK so it wont be a low-income senior housing, we'll make it a drug treatment halfway house.
HAPPY?
 
HBK
2013-07-16 09:56:05 PM

Winston Smith '84: Where are all the anti-HOA, property rights advocates?  We have a case where a property owner may not be allowed to do what they want with their property.  I expected to see more outrage against this "taking" of property by the community.


How is it a "taking?"
 
2013-07-17 12:38:13 AM
FTA: "First and foremost, is the contention that residents did not receive proper notification last year when the project was introduced or as it wound its way through the planning and zoning process."

There's no point in acting surprised about it. All the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display at your local planning department in Alpha Centauri for 50 of your Earth years, so you've had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it's far too late to start making a fuss about it now. ... What do you mean you've never been to Alpha Centauri? Oh, for heaven's sake, mankind, it's only four light years away, you know. I'm sorry, but if you can't be bothered to take an interest in local affairs, that's your own lookout.

/Seriously, nobody posted this until now?
//Farkers slacking
///Slashies in threes
 
2013-07-17 05:20:00 AM
Is there a lawn they'll be yelling at the kids about?
 
2013-07-17 09:29:06 AM
People who object to low-income housing are often really objecting to what they imagine will be more brown people living near them.

Idiots.

It ties in with their fears of lower property values, more traffic, more crime; that whole idiot and kaboodle you mention.



Yeah, because that NEVER happens
 
2013-07-17 10:58:00 AM

Disaster Transport: worked for a community where a family of 4 making less than 60k qualified for "affordable housing".


Uhhhh.....that is low income.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-07-17 12:04:15 PM

Primus Sucks1: Disaster Transport: worked for a community where a family of 4 making less than 60k qualified for "affordable housing".

Uhhhh.....that is low income.


Fark that. In NY that is nearly poverty level. I shiat you not.
 
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