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(Phys Org2)   Long-forgotten seawall protected parts of New Jersey from Hurricane Sandy. Thanks, seawall. Thanks a lot   (phys.org) divider line 38
    More: Interesting, Hurricane Sandy, New Jersey, environmental engineering, barrier islands, residential development, storm surges, Ocean County, civil engineers  
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9567 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jul 2013 at 11:39 AM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



38 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-16 11:41:52 AM
I thought those were just there to twist ankles and scrape knees.  Who knew?
 
2013-07-16 11:43:55 AM
FTFA: "It's amazing that a seawall built nearly 150 years ago, naturally hidden under beach sands, and forgotten, should have a major positive effect under the conditions in which it was originally designed to perform,"

That a stone structure performed as designed/intended?

It's not like people in the 19th century were dumb or bad at building things. *scowl*
 
2013-07-16 11:45:16 AM
farm4.staticflickr.com
Seawalls are walls that protect against damage from the sea.  More at 11.
 
2013-07-16 11:45:18 AM
"It's amazing that a seawall built nearly 150 years ago, naturally hidden under beach sands, and forgotten, should have a major positive effect under the conditions in which it was originally designed to perform,"

Dude, it's a pile of rocks that were buried under sand (and so were protected from shifting or erosion for 150 years).

150 years is really short when you're talking rock lifespans.
 
2013-07-16 11:47:27 AM

lordargent: "It's amazing that a seawall built nearly 150 years ago, naturally hidden under beach sands, and forgotten, should have a major positive effect under the conditions in which it was originally designed to perform,"

Dude, it's a pile of rocks that were buried under sand (and so were protected from shifting or erosion for 150 years).

150 years is really short when you're talking rock lifespans.


Agrees:
 
2013-07-16 11:47:43 AM
cdn.videogum.com
 
2013-07-16 11:49:19 AM
MadMattressMack: lordargent: "It's amazing that a seawall built nearly 150 years ago, naturally hidden under beach sands, and forgotten, should have a major positive effect under the conditions in which it was originally designed to perform,"

Dude, it's a pile of rocks that were buried under sand (and so were protected from shifting or erosion for 150 years).

150 years is really short when you're talking rock lifespans.

Let me try that again....

Agrees:

i.telegraph.co.uk

Odd it thew away the URL AFTER the preview worked...
 
2013-07-16 11:49:58 AM
Sure...great time to wave that idiot flag again..."as sea levels increase and storms intensify in response to global warming..." these people, who want me to believe their estimates of global temperature increases over the next decade, or hundred years, can't get a dam 3 day weather forecast right.
 
2013-07-16 11:51:11 AM

lordargent: "It's amazing that a seawall built nearly 150 years ago, naturally hidden under beach sands, and forgotten, should have a major positive effect under the conditions in which it was originally designed to perform,"

Dude, it's a pile of rocks that were buried under sand (and so were protected from shifting or erosion for 150 years).

150 years is really short when you're talking rock lifespans.


Rocks have a lifespan?
 
2013-07-16 11:51:28 AM
Don't forget the ants. Thanks, ants. Thants.
 
2013-07-16 11:51:42 AM
NJ seawall good.

SF seawall snatches air planes from the sky. Bad seawall, bad.
 
2013-07-16 11:52:21 AM

nitefallz: [cdn.videogum.com image 608x338]


Out of all the monsters in that movie, that was my favorite one.
/yoink!
 
2013-07-16 11:54:17 AM

dpzum1: Sure...great time to wave that idiot flag again..."as sea levels increase and storms intensify in response to global warming..." these people, who want me to believe their estimates of global temperature increases over the next decade, or hundred years, can't get a dam 3 day weather forecast right.


Well you've done it.  You've debunked all theories relating to climate change.  Will someone get this man his Nobel Prize please?  Congratulations on your massive scientific achievement!

/Psst... climatology and meteorology are different sciences.
 
2013-07-16 11:54:30 AM

Nurglitch: lordargent: "It's amazing that a seawall built nearly 150 years ago, naturally hidden under beach sands, and forgotten, should have a major positive effect under the conditions in which it was originally designed to perform,"

Dude, it's a pile of rocks that were buried under sand (and so were protected from shifting or erosion for 150 years).

150 years is really short when you're talking rock lifespans.

Rocks have a lifespan?


Yes.  They are formed, and then eroded.
 
2013-07-16 11:58:14 AM
During Hurricane Irene, I had water up to my house on all four sides (from a swollen creek).  My newish house (1913) turned out to be a foot higher than the older houses nearby.  My interior stayed dry.  Not so theirs.  My basement also seems designed to direct flood waters, (and it does).  Floods like this are incredibly rare, but someone thought to prepare for the eventuality.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
 
2013-07-16 11:58:56 AM

Kraftwerk Orange: They are formed, and then eroded.


Simple Petrology.

Now what the article says is a few hundred years ago, people would band together and pile rocks up for no pay to resolve a common threat.
Now they want a free fartbongo phone and a Beeg from the government for nothing.
 
2013-07-16 11:59:35 AM
So what you're saying is that if you want to protect against the vicissitudes of nature, we should agree as a society to invest in large scale, durable infrastructure? And that it paid off even long after the effort was forgotten?

I can't agree. The market has shown that only a fool would buy a Jersey Shore home that didn't have a seawall nearby, so obviously from now own developers in those areas will prioritize capital investment in private seawalls before they build, and only fools will have their property washed away. I also think contractors will be falling all over themselves to offer the lowest price, highest quality seawall installations for home that don't have them until any homeowner can have one for practically a negligible fee, certainly far less than they'd have to pay in collective property taxes to get the town or state to do it. Smart money is on seawall builders right now, my friend.
 
2013-07-16 12:01:01 PM
Jennifer L. Irish, an authority on storm surge, tsunami inundation, and erosion at Virginia Tech

How much storm surge, tsunami inundation, and erosion does Virginia Tech -- 200+ miles from the coast -- have to contend with?

Seems like an easy job.

/I'm an expert on deep sea condors
 
2013-07-16 12:02:06 PM
Nurglitch: Rocks have a lifespan?

The healthier the rock and the the way it lives its life, the longer it lives.

Sandstone is like a rocker, bad health, short life span, should take it easy but doesn't.

The rocks in the article, have basically been living in their mom's basement for the past 150 years, protected from the elements.
 
2013-07-16 12:03:39 PM
150 years ago.
If they had wanted to build it 15 years ago, it would still be under study.
 
2013-07-16 12:05:57 PM
I thought we were calling it Superstorm Sandy bc it was a category 1 storm and as we all know, category 1 = the worst of all storms ever.
 
2013-07-16 12:09:37 PM

TheHighlandHowler: During Hurricane Irene, I had water up to my house on all four sides (from a swollen creek).  My newish house (1913) turned out to be a foot higher than the older houses nearby.  My interior stayed dry.  Not so theirs.  My basement also seems designed to direct flood waters, (and it does).  Floods like this are incredibly rare, but someone thought to prepare for the eventuality.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.


There are 2 reasons houses aren't built like that anymore.  1 It would cost more and they might have to skip the granite counte rtops and take out 1 or 2 bathrooms. 2 I doubt there are many modern builders who have the skills to build such a structure.
 
2013-07-16 12:10:02 PM
I as in NJ a while, and the newspaper had a story about how the "let's quickly rebuild everything" is letting communities get away with land-grabbing public beaches for, essentially, private use only (by not rebuilding parking lots, or by making sure that the only access to the public beach was through private access points). It was rather disheartening.
 
2013-07-16 12:12:59 PM

willfullyobscure: So what you're saying is that if you want to protect against the vicissitudes of nature, we should agree as a society to invest in large scale, durable infrastructure? And that it paid off even long after the effort was forgotten?

I can't agree. The market has shown that only a fool would buy a Jersey Shore home that didn't have a seawall nearby, so obviously from now own developers in those areas will prioritize capital investment in private seawalls before they build, and only fools will have their property washed away. I also think contractors will be falling all over themselves to offer the lowest price, highest quality seawall installations for home that don't have them until any homeowner can have one for practically a negligible fee, certainly far less than they'd have to pay in collective property taxes to get the town or state to do it. Smart money is on seawall builders right now, my friend.


Um, you do know that building a seawall costs money to build and maintain? Building one might cut into the profit!

/ not being serious
 
2013-07-16 12:54:41 PM

Tom_Slick: TheHighlandHowler: During Hurricane Irene, I had water up to my house on all four sides (from a swollen creek).  My newish house (1913) turned out to be a foot higher than the older houses nearby.  My interior stayed dry.  Not so theirs.  My basement also seems designed to direct flood waters, (and it does).  Floods like this are incredibly rare, but someone thought to prepare for the eventuality.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

There are 2 reasons houses aren't built like that anymore.  1 It would cost more and they might have to skip the granite counte rtops and take out 1 or 2 bathrooms. 2 I doubt there are many modern builders who have the skills to build such a structure.


There's a bias there: all the shiatty houses from 1913 fell down before you were born. The one you are looking at was the rare one that was built well enough to last 100+ years. The same thing happens with cars and tools and stuff. I forget the name of the fallacy. Antique effect or something?
 
2013-07-16 01:07:26 PM

Koodz: I forget the name of the fallacy.


Survivorship Bias?
 
2013-07-16 01:36:35 PM
Shouldn't this have the Fail tag?
 
2013-07-16 01:50:50 PM

VRaptor117: Don't forget the ants. Thanks, ants. Thants.


Bless you, ants. Blants.
 
2013-07-16 01:54:31 PM

lordargent: The rocks in the article, have basically been living in their mom's basement for the past 150 years, protected from the elements.


So you're saying the rocks in question are Farkers?

/hi, guys!
 
2013-07-16 02:38:23 PM
what a highly topical article... I mean Sandy was how long ago?
 
2013-07-16 02:45:06 PM
♫ The foolish man built his house upon the sand ♫
 
2013-07-16 02:48:01 PM

Bung_Howdy: what a highly topical article... I mean Sandy was how long ago?


1) There are still parts of the coast that haven't recovered yet. It's still in the news on an almost daily basis.
2) We're more than a month into hurricane season, so it's not unlikely that the east coast will get hit again.
 
2013-07-16 04:57:21 PM

Koodz: Tom_Slick: TheHighlandHowler: During Hurricane Irene, I had water up to my house on all four sides (from a swollen creek).  My newish house (1913) turned out to be a foot higher than the older houses nearby.  My interior stayed dry.  Not so theirs.  My basement also seems designed to direct flood waters, (and it does).  Floods like this are incredibly rare, but someone thought to prepare for the eventuality.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

There are 2 reasons houses aren't built like that anymore.  1 It would cost more and they might have to skip the granite counte rtops and take out 1 or 2 bathrooms. 2 I doubt there are many modern builders who have the skills to build such a structure.

There's a bias there: all the shiatty houses from 1913 fell down before you were born. The one you are looking at was the rare one that was built well enough to last 100+ years. The same thing happens with cars and tools and stuff. I forget the name of the fallacy. Antique effect or something?


Houses typically fall apart because of neglect more than craftsmanship.
 
2013-07-16 05:51:33 PM
Lando Lincoln: Koodz: Tom_Slick: TheHighlandHowler: During Hurricane Irene, I had water up to my house on all four sides (from a swollen creek).  My newish house (1913) turned out to be a foot higher than the older houses nearby.  My interior stayed dry.  Not so theirs.  My basement also seems designed to direct flood waters, (and it does).  Floods like this are incredibly rare, but someone thought to prepare for the eventuality.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

There are 2 reasons houses aren't built like that anymore.  1 It would cost more and they might have to skip the granite counte rtops and take out 1 or 2 bathrooms. 2 I doubt there are many modern builders who have the skills to build such a structure.

There's a bias there: all the shiatty houses from 1913 fell down before you were born. The one you are looking at was the rare one that was built well enough to last 100+ years. The same thing happens with cars and tools and stuff. I forget the name of the fallacy. Antique effect or something?

Houses typically fall apart because of neglect more than craftsmanship.


and unless a particular model of car is just a total lemon with a bad habit of slinging rods through blocks or some such it can be made to go almost infinitely as long as someone cares enough about it to do the upkeep and not just replace it(ie its a desirable enough car that its cost effective to keep repairing it rather than to replace it)
 
2013-07-16 05:55:21 PM

The Crepes of Wrath: Bung_Howdy: what a highly topical article... I mean Sandy was how long ago?

1) There are still parts of the coast that haven't recovered yet. It's still in the news on an almost daily basis.
2) We're more than a month into hurricane season, so it's not unlikely that the east coast will get hit again.


3) This didn't happen in desolate flyover country that nobody cares about.
 
2013-07-16 10:49:25 PM

shizukanavix: Koodz: I forget the name of the fallacy.

Survivorship Bias?


Looks about right. Thanks.
 
2013-07-17 12:58:11 AM

Oldiron_79: Lando Lincoln: Koodz: Tom_Slick: TheHighlandHowler: During Hurricane Irene, I had water up to my house on all four sides (from a swollen creek).  My newish house (1913) turned out to be a foot higher than the older houses nearby.  My interior stayed dry.  Not so theirs.  My basement also seems designed to direct flood waters, (and it does).  Floods like this are incredibly rare, but someone thought to prepare for the eventuality.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

There are 2 reasons houses aren't built like that anymore.  1 It would cost more and they might have to skip the granite counte rtops and take out 1 or 2 bathrooms. 2 I doubt there are many modern builders who have the skills to build such a structure.

There's a bias there: all the shiatty houses from 1913 fell down before you were born. The one you are looking at was the rare one that was built well enough to last 100+ years. The same thing happens with cars and tools and stuff. I forget the name of the fallacy. Antique effect or something?

Houses typically fall apart because of neglect more than craftsmanship.

and unless a particular model of car is just a total lemon with a bad habit of slinging rods through blocks or some such it can be made to go almost infinitely as long as someone cares enough about it to do the upkeep and not just replace it(ie its a desirable enough car that its cost effective to keep repairing it rather than to replace it)


This really.  We forget that "shoddy" is a term dating back to the Civil War.  On the other hand, "Planned Obsolescence" is a fairly new idea, and one that is common in construction now. Homes are considered investments and not truly permanent structures. It seems to be the attitude of the builder.  Cars are a similar thing.  Some crappy ones will never last, no matter how well you take care of them.  Others, keep them well and they will run for hundreds of thousands of miles.

We only get the best of the past I suppose.
 
2013-07-17 01:43:07 AM
DrunkWithImpotence:

and unless a particular model of car is just a total lemon with a bad habit of slinging rods through blocks or some such it can be made to go almost infinitely as long as someone cares enough about it to do the upkeep and not just replace it(ie its a desirable enough car that its cost effective to keep repairing it rather than to replace it)

This really.  We forget that "shoddy" is a term dating back to the Civil War.  On the other hand, "Planned Obsolescence" is a fairly new idea, and one that is common in construction now. Homes are considered investments and not truly permanent structures. It seems to be the attitude of the builder.  Cars are a similar thing.  Some crappy ones will never last, no matter how well you take care of them.  Others, keep them well and they will run for hundreds of thousands of miles.

We only get the best of the past I suppose ...


Well with cars for example, most of the '60s-early '70s muscle car era cars still on the road are 2 door big block or larger smallblock V8s because they was desirable to collectors, The 4 door and wagon versions as well as inline 6 and smaller small block  versions of the same cars got scrapped years ago even though its essentially the same car(but it just wasn't desirable to fix up)

a 4 door '68 satellite with a 318 is essentially worth its weight in scrap iron, a '68 roadrunner(which is a 2 door big block satellite) with like a 426 hemi is worth stupid money.
 
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