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(The Daily Show)   Jon Oliver of The Daily Show lays Zimmerman blame at the feet of a) a poor job by the prosecution b) the incompetent jury c) everyone's favorite Fark tag   (thedailyshow.com) divider line 28
    More: Florida, John Oliver, George Zimmerman, Mark O'Mara, day schools  
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3923 clicks; posted to Video » on 16 Jul 2013 at 12:36 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-07-16 12:31:14 PM
16 votes:

factoryconnection: nmrsnr: Shadowknight: Apparently, in Florida you're allowed to shoot anyone if you feel scared

Yes, but you must actually shoot them, if you just discharge your weapon, you go to jail for 20 years. It's only fair.

Only the truly cold-blooded earn the protection of their rights.  Also: domestic violence has been proven conclusively to be primarily a product of women's over-active imaginations and excessive lip, so there's no way that woman could have actually needed to scare this so-called "abusive ex" away.  I mean, what's the worst he could do if he wasn't armed?  There's no reason for her to ever fear for her life when confronted by an unarmed man.

Right, Florida?


*sigh*

I see the Marissa Alexander case is going to be the next Florida outrage du jour based on a false racial narrative and biased media reporting. I saw it being pushed on CNN last night.

Let's try this again, shall we: Marissa Alexander had a restraining order against her SO, a man named Gray. She violated that restraining order when when she voluntarily went over to his house - where she hadn't lived for two months - and let herself in, thinking he wasn't home (technically B&E). He was home. There was a confrontation in the master bedroom. At some point Gray left the bedroom. Alexander walked out of the bedroom, past the open front door, and into the garage where she grabbed her gun and returned to confront Grey in either the living room or the kitchen.

They continued arguing and - according Grey and corroborated by the two children who were in the room at the time - said "I got something for you" and fired a shot at head height into the wall. The bullet deflected off something in the wall and ricocheted into the ceiling. She is lucky it didn't hit one of the kids.

The state charged her with reckless endangerment of children and threatening with a deadly weapon. Alexander tried to plead SYG at her immunity hearing, but it was denied because she GRABBED A GUN AND RETURNED TO THE CONFRONTATION. Gray fled the house and called 911; Alexander never called 911. A SWAT team had to be called before she agreed to put down the weapon and come out of the house.

Alexander was told that SYG did not apply to her case. She was told that committing a felony involving the discharge of a firearm carries a mandatory sentence of 20 years under Florida's 10-20-Life rule whether you are white, black, or brown. She was offered a generous plea deal of 3 years with time served, but she rejected it and demanded a jury trial, where she continued to claim self-defense, despite being told that it would not apply.

Given that she admitted to fleeing the confrontation and returning with a gun at the trial, and given that she admitted to discharging her weapon in the same room with two children, the jury debated less than 17 minutes as to her guilt.

Marissa Alexander has no one to blame but herself for her long sentence. Arguing or implying that she received a 20 year sentence because she is black shows your absolute ignorance of Florida's mandatory sentencing laws.

Do try to learn the facts of the case before you express your outrage. You can even listen to the 911 call.

But you both really need to learn that "muh feelings" and "muh outrage" are not a substitute for a legal argument.

/Bonus Fact: 4 months after this incident while awaiting trial, Marissa Alexander was charged and later convicted for assaulting Gray.
2013-07-16 12:48:33 PM
6 votes:
It doesn't happen often, but TDS seemed to go for the easy outrage on this one,, instead of their usual balancing of facts.
2013-07-16 12:43:10 PM
5 votes:

Shadowknight: He covers about everything that I felt about this case and that forsaken State.  Everything I've seen just drives me crazy.  Apparently, in Florida you're allowed to shoot anyone if you feel scared of.  And as a guy that wears a hoodie approximately half the year, apparently I would be a very scary person if it wasn't for my alabaster skin armor.


The Onion got it right.

Just because Zimmerman was morally responsible for Martin's death doesn't mean he broke the law.  That's what people are having a hard time getting their heads around.
2013-07-16 03:02:44 PM
3 votes:

Tommy Moo: You cannot convict a man of murder under the circumstances that took place that night.


Under some interpretations of the current Florida laws.

In many of the sane states in the US, he would be convicted of murder, which is why people in those states find this outcome so baffling.
2013-07-16 02:36:45 PM
3 votes:

Shadowknight: He deserved to get his ass beat for being a racist dick.


This is what pisses me off most about the Zimmerman case. Please provide supporting evidence that Zimmerman was racist.

Was it that time when he took a black girl to his high school prom? Was it the two black children he tutored in his own home?

Or was it that time Zimmerman publicly accused the Sanford PD of covering up the beating of Sherman Ware, a black homeless man, by a white police officer? Or perhaps it was all that time he spent mailing out pamphlets and canvassing black churches in his one man campaign to bring Ware's assailant to justice all on his own time and with his own money?

Or perhaps it was the extensive FBI investigation interviewing 35 of Zimmerman's acquaintances and coworkers, you know, the one that failed to turn up even a single person that had ever heard Zimmerman utter anything racist statement?

The slavering hordes clamoring for "justice" because Zimmerman was a racist really piss me off. Isn't the standard for judging someone a racist supposed to be looking at their character and actions?

Why then, do you assume that Zimmerman was a racist? Just because Martin is dead, and Zimmerman's skin tone is lighter than Martin's dark skin, doesn't make him a racist.

Aren't you yourself judging someone based on the color of his skin and not on his provable character and past actions?

Tell me, please, how calling Zimmerman a racist without knowing a single thing about his character is not a racist judgement in and of itself.
2013-07-17 12:44:38 AM
2 votes:

StoPPeRmobile: "Coming after them?" Are you being intentionally vague?


Kind of have to be vague.  As had been pointed out, he killed the only other witness.  Did he chase him?  Step in his way?  No idea.   He killed the only other witness.

StoPPeRmobile: So if you are doing anything but, "coming after them," then you would allow someone to protect themselves or are we back to accepting your beating and or loss of life or limb?


If Martin was feeling threatened, why doesn't the same self defense laws that protected Zimmerman not cover him?  Some asshole was following him in the dark, with no authority to do so, and who knows what he said or did before hand (see again: he killed the only other witness), and he attacked that threat.  

Yes, Zimmerman probably should not be punished with a murder conviction.  He didn't set out to murder a kid, nor was it a crime of passion.  I am sure that in his little world, he thought he was going to die.  Maybe he would have.  In that, what he did was self defense.  But you cannot excuse the fact that he provoked this confrontation, and if not for his actions this attack would not have happened.  It's not like Martin mugged him, and Zimmerman defended himself from this attack.  He pursued an innocent kid for the crime of walking home from a convenience store.

In any sane State, this would have warranted a manslaughter charge.  He started the fight that required lethal force to save himself from.  He had multiple opportunities to back away from this confrontation, and had an official tell him to back away from it.  Instead...
2013-07-16 02:47:42 PM
2 votes:

Wise_Guy: Shadowknight: I am not saying that he deserved to get his ass beat, legally.  Morally, yes.  He deserved to get his ass beat for being a racist dick.  But legally, no. But come on, he followed the kid, harassed him, and when the kid finally let his emotions get away from him, he pulled a gun (the source of his confidence going into this, I'm sure) and killed a kid.

He didn't "let his emotions get away from him." He attacked him.  It's not like her verbally confronted him or asked him what he was doing.  He attacked him because he was a thug and thought he could beat Zimmerman's ass and there was nothing Zimmerman could do about it. Guess what-- he was wrong.  He made a huge error in judgement and it cost him his life.


According to the one survivor of the incident.

According to the one survivor of the incident.

This *entire* case is based on what the guy, *with the gun*, *who lived to tell the tale*, says.

He has no motivation to lie? He certainly doesn't have to worry about conflicting stories, now does he?

Worked out well for him.

\I personally enjoy the statement I heard earlier this week about Zimmerman
\\"Zimmerman will know what it's like to be Black for the rest of his life - people watching him carefully, avoiding him in public, strangers that are hostile to him. Good."
\\\angry_cat.jpg
2013-07-16 01:20:55 PM
2 votes:

Loki009: There is no way you are going to convince me that the laws in Florida aren't broken when you can spill a McDonalds hot coffee in your lap while driving and win close to a $10 million dollar law suit. Florida should just throw out their laws and start from scratch, its the only way you will be able to fix the perverted twisted mess of laws that they have on the books right now, both civilly and criminally.


Fun fact:  That didn't happen.

A twelve-person jury reached its verdict on August 18, 1994. Applying the principles of, the found that McDonald's was 80% responsible for the incident and Liebeck was 20% at fault. Though there was a warning on the coffee cup, the jury decided that the warning was neither large enough nor sufficient. They awarded Liebeck US$200,000 in, which was then reduced by 20% to $160,000. In addition, they awarded her $2.7 million in. The jurors apparently arrived at this figure from Morgan's suggestion to penalize McDonald's for one or two days' worth of coffee revenues, which were about $1.35 million per day. The judge reduced punitive damages to $480,000, three times the compensatory amount, for a total of $640,000. The decision was appealed by both McDonald's and Liebeck in December 1994, but the parties settled out of court for an undisclosed amount less than $600,000.
2013-07-16 01:06:22 PM
2 votes:

Tellingthem: But he's in for 20 years.


I'm sorry to say it, but it really does appear that the lesson in the Zimmerman acquittal: kill all witnesses.

Florida, you're off the hook.  It is quite clear how you feel about "warning shots," which to be perfectly honest are illegal pretty much everywhere.
2013-07-16 12:39:16 PM
2 votes:

Elegy: Bonus Fact: 4 months after this incident while awaiting trial, Marissa Alexander was charged and later convicted for assaulting Gray.


So people in Florida that recklessly take the law into their own hands, endangering children with firearms are dealt with harshly by the legal system?  Gotcha.
2013-07-16 12:36:33 PM
2 votes:
Bonus fun fact: the prosecutor responsible for prosecuting Marissa Alexander was Angela Corey, the same champion of racial injustice that was the head of the prosecution team on the Zimmerman case.
2013-07-16 11:59:21 AM
2 votes:

nmrsnr: Shadowknight: Apparently, in Florida you're allowed to shoot anyone if you feel scared

Yes, but you must actually shoot them, if you just discharge your weapon, you go to jail for 20 years. It's only fair.


Only the truly cold-blooded earn the protection of their rights.  Also: domestic violence has been proven conclusively to be primarily a product of women's over-active imaginations and excessive lip, so there's no way that woman could have actually needed to scare this so-called "abusive ex" away.  I mean, what's the worst he could do if he wasn't armed?  There's no reason for her to ever fear for her life when confronted by an unarmed man.

Right, Florida?
2013-07-17 12:25:03 AM
1 votes:

LeoffDaGrate: randomjsa: D) The facts of the case

The facts being that the prosecution had no case which is why they did a poor job.

The jury listened to the facts, and came to the only conclusion you can come to if you listen to the facts.

I'm sorry that we didn't convict somebody in spite of the facts just to satisfy your political and emotional needs this go around but occasionally the justice system does work.

You are the God-King in your own little deluded world, aren't you?


He may be insensitive with his assessment, but he's not wrong.  Oliver made the same argument in the clip:  Zimmerman was found not guilty because the system worked as designed.  Realistically, the prosecution didn't have enough evidence even for manslaughter.  While everyone knows it's wrong, no one could prove Zimmerman broke any laws, either because he didn't or there was no evidence to support that he did.  What is pissing people off is that dichotomy - that Zimmerman is responsible for Martin's death without breaking any laws.

The jury wasn't allowed to vote guilty/not guilty based on what they thought was just.  They were required to vote based on the law as written.  The prosecution never had a case.  The only living witness was the defendant.  The physical evidence was neutral at best, and favored the defense at worst.

So the emotional argument is fair, primarily because everyone who is arguing Zimmerman should have been found guilty can't explain WHY using any existing laws.  They just "know" he should have been found guilty.  That's not good enough.
2013-07-16 07:34:16 PM
1 votes:

Tommy Moo: Really? In which state is it illegal to kill someone who is actively, currently in the process of attempting to shatter your skull against concrete?


Why do so many people believe Zimmerman's pack of lies? His injuries were minor. If his account was true, he would not have been able to shoot Martin.

To me, the lesson from this is if there is any kind of potentially hostile situation in Florida, you better be able and be the first to escalate the confrontation to a lethal confrontation.
2013-07-16 04:28:09 PM
1 votes:

Crewmannumber6: AeAe: Here's what I think - I don't think Zim is necessarily racist, but he did profile Martin.  I think he saw a young, black man and he thought "this guy is up to no good" and based on his race.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this instigated by people in the neighborhood being victimized by young black men who were up to no good? Maybe if people were having trouble with asian or white kids, and this kid were asian or white, his reaction may have been similar.


That may be, but did Zimmerman come to some conclusion based on Martin's race?  And if he did, is that not a racist act?  He assumed Martin was up to no good because he was a young black male.
2013-07-16 02:46:26 PM
1 votes:

itsdan: Cops don't wait until they've been attacked to pull their gun in dangerous situations.


They are also trained, and legally allowed to do that.  Oh, and required to actually go into these situations.  Zimmerman just wanted to be a superhero.
2013-07-16 02:26:11 PM
1 votes:

Loki009: If I recall correctly her grandson was the "Doctor" who she racked up the legal bills with too. The only way this could have been any more obiously an insurance scam would be if she also got rear ended at the same time and then went for disability due to whiplash.


So, other words, you haven't looked at any of the pictures of the actual injuries? Your grandson trying to "scam" the system doesn't go so far as to do actual skin grafts just to provide a cover story.

/Well, unless he's dumb like you
2013-07-16 02:24:30 PM
1 votes:

Wise_Guy: I completely understand that the whole situation could have been avoided, but that doesn't change my opinion of what actually happened.

If someone attacks you and is on top of you beating the crap out of you, slamming your head into the ground, at what point do you defend yourself?

Both guys made some pretty shiatty decisions, IMO, but I have no problem with Zimmerman shooting Martin once Zimmerman was on the ground getting pummelled.  You don't know how far Martin would have gone and you can't wait until you are knocked unconscious or worse.


I'm from Oklahoma, another gun-loving state where we now have open carry. My problem with everyone packing is that when someone brings a gun into the situation, it automatically escalates. It's one thing to risk getting your ass beat; it's completely different when there's the added gun element.

The only reason I can see Zimmerman fearing for his life was the chance that Martin would grab the gun and shoot first. Martin may not have even known the gun was there, but Zimmerman did, which raised the stakes in his mind.

So the lesson from this is that you can provoke a fight, then - when you suddenly discover you're not the big tough man you thought you were - you can pull out your gun and shoot.

And it's a loaded statement to say that Martin attacked Zimmerman. Even if he threw the first punch, by the standards applied in the case, HE WAS ACTING IN SELF DEFENSE. Zimmerman put Martin in a situation where Martin was concerned for his own safety. Just because he didn't have a gun doesn't mean he couldn't act for his own protection. I'm more of a lover than a fighter, but if I've got some stranger following me around at night, first by car, then pursuing me on foot, I'm probably going to get nervous and try to figure out wtf is going on and try to get them to STOP following me.
2013-07-16 02:24:21 PM
1 votes:

Mikey1969: i.imgur.com image 660x371]

[i.imgur.com image 640x360]

[i.imgur.com image 400x268]


Superficial scalp wounds bleed like crazy.  I have no doubt there was a scuffle between the two.  But I have treated much worse looking wounds from bar fights between two drunken friends.  There is no obvious bruising, or swelling, and no report of any cranial fractures, concussions, or even a trip to the hospital.  

Again, not so much dismissing Martin's poor coping skills and attacking Zimmerman, but I'm also not discounting Zimmerman's harassment making him lose his head or the exaggerations Zimmerman's defense made regarding his injuries from the fight.
2013-07-16 02:10:46 PM
1 votes:

Wise_Guy: He didn't "let his emotions get away from him." He attacked him.  It's not like her verbally confronted him or asked him what he was doing.  He attacked him because he was a thug and thought he could beat Zimmerman's ass and there was nothing Zimmerman could do about it. Guess what-- he was wrong.  He made a huge error in judgement and it cost him his life.


So Zimmerman following him and harassing him against 911 dispatch's advice and with no legal authority simply because he was armed has no culpability in any of this?  Zimmerman did the same, he confronted Martin because he had a gun and thought there was a suspicious black kid that was up no good and he was going to take care of business because he had a gun and Martin was just some punk.

Yes, both sides were stupid in their preconceived notions and made the wrong choice in action.  But only one of them came with a gun instead of Skittles.  Only one of them went out of his way to cause the confrontation, while the other one was walking back to his friend's house after a trip to the convenience store to buy a drink.  And only one of them ended up dead from said confrontation.

There should be some consequence to all this.  Unfortunately, according to Florida law, Zimmerman was completely fine in his harassment.  So long as he actually killed the kid, I suppose.  If he had missed, he'd be servicing time right now.
2013-07-16 02:01:07 PM
1 votes:

Shadowknight: I am not saying that he deserved to get his ass beat, legally.  Morally, yes.  He deserved to get his ass beat for being a racist dick.  But legally, no. But come on, he followed the kid, harassed him, and when the kid finally let his emotions get away from him, he pulled a gun (the source of his confidence going into this, I'm sure) and killed a kid.


He didn't "let his emotions get away from him." He attacked him.  It's not like her verbally confronted him or asked him what he was doing.  He attacked him because he was a thug and thought he could beat Zimmerman's ass and there was nothing Zimmerman could do about it. Guess what-- he was wrong.  He made a huge error in judgement and it cost him his life.
2013-07-16 01:58:59 PM
1 votes:

Wise_Guy: If someone attacks you and is on top of you beating the crap out of you, slamming your head into the ground, at what point do you defend yourself?


Again, do we have any evidence of this happening?  I honestly don't know, but I had never heard of him going to the hospital or having any medical issues after the fact.  And the video the night of the shooting shows him strolling out of the police station under his own power and seemingly fine.  If police procedure in Florida is anything like it was in Virginia when I was an officer, when taken into custody, any sign of injury immediately means a trip to the hospital or at the very least calling out the medics to make sure they're ok before taking them to lockup.  

I heard the lawyer arguing that he was getting pummeled to death, but haven't actually seen any evidence to support that.  Near as I have heard, he had a bloody, possibly broken nose, and two black eyes that come with that.  No skull fracture, bruising to the  back of the head, or anything else.  In my experience as both a police officer and a medic, that usually means someone got punched in the face for being a dick, but the rest of the story is made up nonsense.
2013-07-16 01:47:26 PM
1 votes:

Shadowknight: Wise_Guy: You left out the part where Martin attacked Zimmerman.

Seriously?  A guy is following you in the dark, with no legal authority to do anything, and may or may not be saying racial slurs to you (depending on if you believe what was "heard" on the recording) and you're going to blame the kid for trying to get him to back off?

The voice on that 911 call was obviously out looking for a fight.  He started the confrontation.  If I went out to a bar and started harassing some random guy and wouldn't leave him alone, I shouldn't be surprised if he finally has enough and decks me.  It doesn't mean I can pull a gun and go all Dirty Harry on him.


I completely understand that the whole situation could have been avoided, but that doesn't change my opinion of what actually happened.

If someone attacks you and is on top of you beating the crap out of you, slamming your head into the ground, at what point do you defend yourself?

Both guys made some pretty shiatty decisions, IMO, but I have no problem with Zimmerman shooting Martin once Zimmerman was on the ground getting pummelled.  You don't know how far Martin would have gone and you can't wait until you are knocked unconscious or worse.
2013-07-16 12:50:13 PM
1 votes:

Elegy: Bonus fun fact: the prosecutor responsible for prosecuting Marissa Alexander was Angela Corey, the same champion of racial injustice that was the head of the prosecution team on the Zimmerman case.

Also note that Ronald Thompson got a 20 year sentence for firing warning shots. He was also prosecuted by Angela Corey. And he is a white army veteran. So yes even white people get convicted of crimes and sentenced to mandatory minimums in flordia. And there are others serving 20 years under that law...

Link

Orville Lee Wollard, a former auxiliary police force member, shot a bullet into the wall to scare away his daughter's abusive boyfriend. Prosecutors offered him probation. But he wanted to be exonerated at trial. Now he's serving 20 years.

Erik Weyant, 22, fired shots in the air to disperse a group of drunk men who accosted him in a parking lot outside a bar and blocked his car. No one was hurt. But he's in for 20 years.

2013-07-16 12:39:16 PM
1 votes:

factoryconnection: nmrsnr: Shadowknight: Apparently, in Florida you're allowed to shoot anyone if you feel scared

Yes, but you must actually shoot them, if you just discharge your weapon, you go to jail for 20 years. It's only fair.

Only the truly cold-blooded

whiteearn the protection of their rights.  Also: domestic violence has been proven conclusively to be primarily a product of women's over-active imaginations and excessive lip, so there's no way that woman could have actually needed to scare this so-called "abusive ex" away.  I mean, what's the worst he could do if he wasn't armed?  There's no reason for her to ever fear for her life when confronted by an unarmed man.

Right, Florida?


FTFY
2013-07-16 11:42:22 AM
1 votes:

Shadowknight: Apparently, in Florida you're allowed to shoot anyone if you feel scared


Yes, but you must actually shoot them, if you just discharge your weapon, you go to jail for 20 years. It's only fair.
2013-07-16 11:25:22 AM
1 votes:
He covers about everything that I felt about this case and that forsaken State.  Everything I've seen just drives me crazy.  Apparently, in Florida you're allowed to shoot anyone if you feel scared of.  And as a guy that wears a hoodie approximately half the year, apparently I would be a very scary person if it wasn't for my alabaster skin armor.
2013-07-16 11:06:43 AM
1 votes:
i586.photobucket.com
 
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