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(The Daily Show)   Jon Oliver of The Daily Show lays Zimmerman blame at the feet of a) a poor job by the prosecution b) the incompetent jury c) everyone's favorite Fark tag   (thedailyshow.com) divider line 211
    More: Florida, John Oliver, George Zimmerman, Mark O'Mara, day schools  
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3923 clicks; posted to Video » on 16 Jul 2013 at 12:36 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-16 11:06:43 AM  
i586.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-16 11:25:22 AM  
He covers about everything that I felt about this case and that forsaken State.  Everything I've seen just drives me crazy.  Apparently, in Florida you're allowed to shoot anyone if you feel scared of.  And as a guy that wears a hoodie approximately half the year, apparently I would be a very scary person if it wasn't for my alabaster skin armor.
 
2013-07-16 11:42:22 AM  

Shadowknight: Apparently, in Florida you're allowed to shoot anyone if you feel scared


Yes, but you must actually shoot them, if you just discharge your weapon, you go to jail for 20 years. It's only fair.
 
2013-07-16 11:59:21 AM  

nmrsnr: Shadowknight: Apparently, in Florida you're allowed to shoot anyone if you feel scared

Yes, but you must actually shoot them, if you just discharge your weapon, you go to jail for 20 years. It's only fair.


Only the truly cold-blooded earn the protection of their rights.  Also: domestic violence has been proven conclusively to be primarily a product of women's over-active imaginations and excessive lip, so there's no way that woman could have actually needed to scare this so-called "abusive ex" away.  I mean, what's the worst he could do if he wasn't armed?  There's no reason for her to ever fear for her life when confronted by an unarmed man.

Right, Florida?
 
2013-07-16 12:31:14 PM  

factoryconnection: nmrsnr: Shadowknight: Apparently, in Florida you're allowed to shoot anyone if you feel scared

Yes, but you must actually shoot them, if you just discharge your weapon, you go to jail for 20 years. It's only fair.

Only the truly cold-blooded earn the protection of their rights.  Also: domestic violence has been proven conclusively to be primarily a product of women's over-active imaginations and excessive lip, so there's no way that woman could have actually needed to scare this so-called "abusive ex" away.  I mean, what's the worst he could do if he wasn't armed?  There's no reason for her to ever fear for her life when confronted by an unarmed man.

Right, Florida?


*sigh*

I see the Marissa Alexander case is going to be the next Florida outrage du jour based on a false racial narrative and biased media reporting. I saw it being pushed on CNN last night.

Let's try this again, shall we: Marissa Alexander had a restraining order against her SO, a man named Gray. She violated that restraining order when when she voluntarily went over to his house - where she hadn't lived for two months - and let herself in, thinking he wasn't home (technically B&E). He was home. There was a confrontation in the master bedroom. At some point Gray left the bedroom. Alexander walked out of the bedroom, past the open front door, and into the garage where she grabbed her gun and returned to confront Grey in either the living room or the kitchen.

They continued arguing and - according Grey and corroborated by the two children who were in the room at the time - said "I got something for you" and fired a shot at head height into the wall. The bullet deflected off something in the wall and ricocheted into the ceiling. She is lucky it didn't hit one of the kids.

The state charged her with reckless endangerment of children and threatening with a deadly weapon. Alexander tried to plead SYG at her immunity hearing, but it was denied because she GRABBED A GUN AND RETURNED TO THE CONFRONTATION. Gray fled the house and called 911; Alexander never called 911. A SWAT team had to be called before she agreed to put down the weapon and come out of the house.

Alexander was told that SYG did not apply to her case. She was told that committing a felony involving the discharge of a firearm carries a mandatory sentence of 20 years under Florida's 10-20-Life rule whether you are white, black, or brown. She was offered a generous plea deal of 3 years with time served, but she rejected it and demanded a jury trial, where she continued to claim self-defense, despite being told that it would not apply.

Given that she admitted to fleeing the confrontation and returning with a gun at the trial, and given that she admitted to discharging her weapon in the same room with two children, the jury debated less than 17 minutes as to her guilt.

Marissa Alexander has no one to blame but herself for her long sentence. Arguing or implying that she received a 20 year sentence because she is black shows your absolute ignorance of Florida's mandatory sentencing laws.

Do try to learn the facts of the case before you express your outrage. You can even listen to the 911 call.

But you both really need to learn that "muh feelings" and "muh outrage" are not a substitute for a legal argument.

/Bonus Fact: 4 months after this incident while awaiting trial, Marissa Alexander was charged and later convicted for assaulting Gray.
 
2013-07-16 12:36:33 PM  
Bonus fun fact: the prosecutor responsible for prosecuting Marissa Alexander was Angela Corey, the same champion of racial injustice that was the head of the prosecution team on the Zimmerman case.
 
2013-07-16 12:39:16 PM  

Elegy: Bonus Fact: 4 months after this incident while awaiting trial, Marissa Alexander was charged and later convicted for assaulting Gray.


So people in Florida that recklessly take the law into their own hands, endangering children with firearms are dealt with harshly by the legal system?  Gotcha.
 
2013-07-16 12:39:16 PM  

factoryconnection: nmrsnr: Shadowknight: Apparently, in Florida you're allowed to shoot anyone if you feel scared

Yes, but you must actually shoot them, if you just discharge your weapon, you go to jail for 20 years. It's only fair.

Only the truly cold-blooded

whiteearn the protection of their rights.  Also: domestic violence has been proven conclusively to be primarily a product of women's over-active imaginations and excessive lip, so there's no way that woman could have actually needed to scare this so-called "abusive ex" away.  I mean, what's the worst he could do if he wasn't armed?  There's no reason for her to ever fear for her life when confronted by an unarmed man.

Right, Florida?


FTFY
 
2013-07-16 12:43:10 PM  

Shadowknight: He covers about everything that I felt about this case and that forsaken State.  Everything I've seen just drives me crazy.  Apparently, in Florida you're allowed to shoot anyone if you feel scared of.  And as a guy that wears a hoodie approximately half the year, apparently I would be a very scary person if it wasn't for my alabaster skin armor.


The Onion got it right.

Just because Zimmerman was morally responsible for Martin's death doesn't mean he broke the law.  That's what people are having a hard time getting their heads around.
 
2013-07-16 12:48:33 PM  
It doesn't happen often, but TDS seemed to go for the easy outrage on this one,, instead of their usual balancing of facts.
 
2013-07-16 12:50:13 PM  

Elegy: Bonus fun fact: the prosecutor responsible for prosecuting Marissa Alexander was Angela Corey, the same champion of racial injustice that was the head of the prosecution team on the Zimmerman case.

Also note that Ronald Thompson got a 20 year sentence for firing warning shots. He was also prosecuted by Angela Corey. And he is a white army veteran. So yes even white people get convicted of crimes and sentenced to mandatory minimums in flordia. And there are others serving 20 years under that law...

Link

Orville Lee Wollard, a former auxiliary police force member, shot a bullet into the wall to scare away his daughter's abusive boyfriend. Prosecutors offered him probation. But he wanted to be exonerated at trial. Now he's serving 20 years.

Erik Weyant, 22, fired shots in the air to disperse a group of drunk men who accosted him in a parking lot outside a bar and blocked his car. No one was hurt. But he's in for 20 years.

 
2013-07-16 01:03:23 PM  

Elegy: factoryconnection: nmrsnr: Shadowknight: Apparently, in Florida you're allowed to shoot anyone if you feel scared

Yes, but you must actually shoot them, if you just discharge your weapon, you go to jail for 20 years. It's only fair.

Only the truly cold-blooded earn the protection of their rights.  Also: domestic violence has been proven conclusively to be primarily a product of women's over-active imaginations and excessive lip, so there's no way that woman could have actually needed to scare this so-called "abusive ex" away.  I mean, what's the worst he could do if he wasn't armed?  There's no reason for her to ever fear for her life when confronted by an unarmed man.

Right, Florida?

*sigh*

I see the Marissa Alexander case is going to be the next Florida outrage du jour based on a false racial narrative and biased media reporting. I saw it being pushed on CNN last night.

Let's try this again, shall we: Marissa Alexander had a restraining order against her SO, a man named Gray. She violated that restraining order when when she voluntarily went over to his house - where she hadn't lived for two months - and let herself in, thinking he wasn't home (technically B&E). He was home. There was a confrontation in the master bedroom. At some point Gray left the bedroom. Alexander walked out of the bedroom, past the open front door, and into the garage where she grabbed her gun and returned to confront Grey in either the living room or the kitchen.

They continued arguing and - according Grey and corroborated by the two children who were in the room at the time - said "I got something for you" and fired a shot at head height into the wall. The bullet deflected off something in the wall and ricocheted into the ceiling. She is lucky it didn't hit one of the kids.

The state charged her with reckless endangerment of children and threatening with a deadly weapon. Alexander tried to plead SYG at her immunity hearing, but it was denied because she GRABBED A GUN AND RETURNED T ...


..and the 'oh snap' was heard 'round the world
 
2013-07-16 01:06:22 PM  

Tellingthem: But he's in for 20 years.


I'm sorry to say it, but it really does appear that the lesson in the Zimmerman acquittal: kill all witnesses.

Florida, you're off the hook.  It is quite clear how you feel about "warning shots," which to be perfectly honest are illegal pretty much everywhere.
 
2013-07-16 01:08:41 PM  

Crewmannumber6: It doesn't happen often, but TDS seemed to go for the easy outrage on this one,, instead of their usual balancing of facts.


I, for one, can't really blame them in this case. There isn't really any other reaction when you consider that this guy followed and killed an unarmed kid because he looked suspicious, and got away with it because apparently it was legal.
 
2013-07-16 01:09:51 PM  

Elegy: factoryconnection: nmrsnr: Shadowknight: Apparently, in Florida you're allowed to shoot anyone if you feel scared

Yes, but you must actually shoot them, if you just discharge your weapon, you go to jail for 20 years. It's only fair.

Only the truly cold-blooded earn the protection of their rights.  Also: domestic violence has been proven conclusively to be primarily a product of women's over-active imaginations and excessive lip, so there's no way that woman could have actually needed to scare this so-called "abusive ex" away.  I mean, what's the worst he could do if he wasn't armed?  There's no reason for her to ever fear for her life when confronted by an unarmed man.

Right, Florida?

*sigh*

I see the Marissa Alexander case is going to be the next Florida outrage du jour based on a false racial narrative and biased media reporting. I saw it being pushed on CNN last night.

Let's try this again, shall we: Marissa Alexander had a restraining order against her SO, a man named Gray. She violated that restraining order when when she voluntarily went over to his house - where she hadn't lived for two months - and let herself in, thinking he wasn't home (technically B&E). He was home. There was a confrontation in the master bedroom. At some point Gray left the bedroom. Alexander walked out of the bedroom, past the open front door, and into the garage where she grabbed her gun and returned to confront Grey in either the living room or the kitchen.

They continued arguing and - according Grey and corroborated by the two children who were in the room at the time - said "I got something for you" and fired a shot at head height into the wall. The bullet deflected off something in the wall and ricocheted into the ceiling. She is lucky it didn't hit one of the kids.

The state charged her with reckless endangerment of children and threatening with a deadly weapon. Alexander tried to plead SYG at her immunity hearing, but it was denied because she GRABBED A GUN AND RETURNED T ...


There is no way you are going to convince me that the laws in Florida aren't broken when you can spill a McDonalds hot coffee in your lap while driving and win close to a $10 million dollar law suit. Florida should just throw out their laws and start from scratch, its the only way you will be able to fix the perverted twisted mess of laws that they have on the books right now, both civilly and criminally.
 
2013-07-16 01:15:33 PM  
20 years for shooting a gun in the air??? Can we have the name of her Lawyer just so I know who not to use.

Also, that comment by Zimmermans brother was poorly worded, but he DESTROYED Piers Morgan in that interview. I actually thought that interview was a new low for CNN. flame me all you want lol.
 
2013-07-16 01:18:22 PM  

factoryconnection: Elegy: Bonus Fact: 4 months after this incident while awaiting trial, Marissa Alexander was charged and later convicted for assaulting Gray.

So people in Florida that recklessly take the law into their own hands, endangering children with firearms are dealt with harshly by the legal system?  Gotcha.


Actually - and I didn't make thais clear - the assault charge stemmed from an entirely different event that happened some months later. Her and Gray got into an argument and she punched him in the face, giving him a black eye.

I'm not saying Gray is an angel - far from it, he's got 5 baby's mommas and a rap sheet that includes domestic violence - but in this case he was clearly beat up while she was not.

Alexander initially claimed she had an alibi for incident, and when that didn't pan out, started claiming Gray hit her first.

You can read more here.
 
2013-07-16 01:20:55 PM  

Loki009: There is no way you are going to convince me that the laws in Florida aren't broken when you can spill a McDonalds hot coffee in your lap while driving and win close to a $10 million dollar law suit. Florida should just throw out their laws and start from scratch, its the only way you will be able to fix the perverted twisted mess of laws that they have on the books right now, both civilly and criminally.


Fun fact:  That didn't happen.

A twelve-person jury reached its verdict on August 18, 1994. Applying the principles of, the found that McDonald's was 80% responsible for the incident and Liebeck was 20% at fault. Though there was a warning on the coffee cup, the jury decided that the warning was neither large enough nor sufficient. They awarded Liebeck US$200,000 in, which was then reduced by 20% to $160,000. In addition, they awarded her $2.7 million in. The jurors apparently arrived at this figure from Morgan's suggestion to penalize McDonald's for one or two days' worth of coffee revenues, which were about $1.35 million per day. The judge reduced punitive damages to $480,000, three times the compensatory amount, for a total of $640,000. The decision was appealed by both McDonald's and Liebeck in December 1994, but the parties settled out of court for an undisclosed amount less than $600,000.
 
2013-07-16 01:21:37 PM  

Shadowknight: Crewmannumber6: It doesn't happen often, but TDS seemed to go for the easy outrage on this one,, instead of their usual balancing of facts.

I, for one, can't really blame them in this case. There isn't really any other reaction when you consider that this guy followed and killed an unarmed kid because he looked suspicious, and got away with it because apparently it was legal.


You left out the part where Martin attacked Zimmerman.
 
2013-07-16 01:23:46 PM  

Elegy: You can read more here.


How about I promise to not talk about it any more?  I get too emotional with DV stuff.

Loki009: There is no way you are going to convince me that the laws in Florida aren't broken when you can spill a McDonalds hot coffee in your lap while driving and win close to a $10 million dollar law suit.


That McD's "hot coffee" story is another one that has been mutilated and re-assembled into a Frankenstein's monster of case law history.  That woman didn't get any "millions," but she did get third-degree burns.
 
2013-07-16 01:24:08 PM  

Shadowknight: Loki009: There is no way you are going to convince me that the laws in Florida aren't broken when you can spill a McDonalds hot coffee in your lap while driving and win close to a $10 million dollar law suit. Florida should just throw out their laws and start from scratch, its the only way you will be able to fix the perverted twisted mess of laws that they have on the books right now, both civilly and criminally.

Fun fact:  That didn't happen.

A twelve-person jury reached its verdict on August 18, 1994. Applying the principles of, the found that McDonald's was 80% responsible for the incident and Liebeck was 20% at fault. Though there was a warning on the coffee cup, the jury decided that the warning was neither large enough nor sufficient. They awarded Liebeck US$200,000 in, which was then reduced by 20% to $160,000. In addition, they awarded her $2.7 million in. The jurors apparently arrived at this figure from Morgan's suggestion to penalize McDonald's for one or two days' worth of coffee revenues, which were about $1.35 million per day. The judge reduced punitive damages to $480,000, three times the compensatory amount, for a total of $640,000. The decision was appealed by both McDonald's and Liebeck in December 1994, but the parties settled out of court for an undisclosed amount less than $600,000.


So over half a million dollars for using 8pt font rather than 10pt font telling you that driving down main street with pot holes and speed bumps with a hot coffee between your legs is a better idea?

Still think florida needs to burn its laws and start from scratch.
 
2013-07-16 01:25:03 PM  

Wise_Guy: You left out the part where Martin attacked Zimmerman.


Self defense is not an acceptable excuse when you feel your life is being threatened.
 
2013-07-16 01:28:11 PM  

Loki009: Still think florida needs to burn its laws and start from scratch.


Skip that and just burn down Florida.
 
2013-07-16 01:28:31 PM  

Wise_Guy: You left out the part where Martin attacked Zimmerman.


Seriously?  A guy is following you in the dark, with no legal authority to do anything, and may or may not be saying racial slurs to you (depending on if you believe what was "heard" on the recording) and you're going to blame the kid for trying to get him to back off?

The voice on that 911 call was obviously out looking for a fight.  He started the confrontation.  If I went out to a bar and started harassing some random guy and wouldn't leave him alone, I shouldn't be surprised if he finally has enough and decks me.  It doesn't mean I can pull a gun and go all Dirty Harry on him.
 
2013-07-16 01:29:51 PM  

Wise_Guy: You left out the part where Martin attacked Zimmerman.


Zimmerman followed Martin, yada yada yada, Zimmerman shoots Martin.
 
2013-07-16 01:32:21 PM  

factoryconnection: Wise_Guy: You left out the part where Martin attacked Zimmerman.

Self defense is not an acceptable excuse when you feel your life is being threatened.


You of course have the right to defend yourself if your life is being threatened.  But he went out provoking a fight.  He was told not to follow him, and he did anyway.  He was told not to confront him, and he did anyway.  

Uncle Jimbo's "It's Coming Right For Us!" defense should not be legally accepted as self defense.  YOU obviously provoked an attack because you felt like a big man with a gun.  If not first or second degree, it should have at least been a manslaughter charge.  You did nothing to deescalate the situation, and in fact did quite the opposite.
 
2013-07-16 01:33:42 PM  

Shadowknight: If I went out to a bar and started harassing some random guy and wouldn't leave him alone, I shouldn't be surprised if he finally has enough and decks me.


Try this: "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me". I'm sorry but the escalation from a verbal to a physical confrontation is never "necessary" no matter what someone is saying to you.
 
2013-07-16 01:35:06 PM  

factoryconnection: Elegy: You can read more here.

How about I promise to not talk about it any more?  I get too emotional with DV stuff.

Loki009: There is no way you are going to convince me that the laws in Florida aren't broken when you can spill a McDonalds hot coffee in your lap while driving and win close to a $10 million dollar law suit.

That McD's "hot coffee" story is another one that has been mutilated and re-assembled into a Frankenstein's monster of case law history.  That woman didn't get any "millions," but she did get third-degree burns.


She got black charred flesh from hot coffee?  I'm not sure that is possible.
 
2013-07-16 01:36:09 PM  

Lucksbane: She got black charred flesh from hot coffee? I'm not sure that is possible.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants
 
2013-07-16 01:42:01 PM  

itsdan: I'm sorry but the escalation from a verbal to a physical confrontation is never "necessary" no matter what someone is saying to you.


Some states have laws that protect you from prosecution if you are coerced into a fight due to the other person using "fighting words".  No shiat.  If you say something super messed up to me, I can knock your ass out, claim you used "fighting words", and avoid an assault charge.
 
2013-07-16 01:46:29 PM  

itsdan: Try this: "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me". I'm sorry but the escalation from a verbal to a physical confrontation is never "necessary" no matter what someone is saying to you.


In theory, yes.  I have never hauled off and decked a guy for saying mean things to me.  But I'm also a lower-middle class white guy who grew up a lower middle class white kid in the middle of Michigan.  I never had to put up with police following me and harassing me because I was black in a nice neighborhood, much less had some self appointed neighborhood avenger with no authority doing it.  Zimmerman was obviously looking for a confrontation, and from the 911 recording wouldn't have put it past him to step in his way and refuse to let him pass, or even physically try to impede him.

Do we have any evidence that Martin even posed that much of a threat?  I mean, Zimmerman was released that very night (ironically under the "Stand Your Ground" law that was not used as part of his defense) and he looked fine.  To my knowledge, he never went to the hospital for wounds incurred in this apparently life threatening altercation.  He just walked out.
 
2013-07-16 01:47:26 PM  

Shadowknight: Wise_Guy: You left out the part where Martin attacked Zimmerman.

Seriously?  A guy is following you in the dark, with no legal authority to do anything, and may or may not be saying racial slurs to you (depending on if you believe what was "heard" on the recording) and you're going to blame the kid for trying to get him to back off?

The voice on that 911 call was obviously out looking for a fight.  He started the confrontation.  If I went out to a bar and started harassing some random guy and wouldn't leave him alone, I shouldn't be surprised if he finally has enough and decks me.  It doesn't mean I can pull a gun and go all Dirty Harry on him.


I completely understand that the whole situation could have been avoided, but that doesn't change my opinion of what actually happened.

If someone attacks you and is on top of you beating the crap out of you, slamming your head into the ground, at what point do you defend yourself?

Both guys made some pretty shiatty decisions, IMO, but I have no problem with Zimmerman shooting Martin once Zimmerman was on the ground getting pummelled.  You don't know how far Martin would have gone and you can't wait until you are knocked unconscious or worse.
 
2013-07-16 01:50:19 PM  

itsdan: Lucksbane: She got black charred flesh from hot coffee? I'm not sure that is possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants


Im not sure why you think this is helping your argument.

From the linked article it was even referenced as "the poster child of excessive lawsuits"
 
2013-07-16 01:51:26 PM  
The best part of last nights show was when everything broke.
 
2013-07-16 01:51:57 PM  

Farce-Side: itsdan: I'm sorry but the escalation from a verbal to a physical confrontation is never "necessary" no matter what someone is saying to you.

Some states have laws that protect you from prosecution if you are coerced into a fight due to the other person using "fighting words".  No shiat.  If you say something super messed up to me, I can knock your ass out, claim you used "fighting words", and avoid an assault charge.


I am not saying that he deserved to get his ass beat, legally.  Morally, yes.  He deserved to get his ass beat for being a racist dick.  But legally, no. But come on, he followed the kid, harassed him, and when the kid finally let his emotions get away from him, he pulled a gun (the source of his confidence going into this, I'm sure) and killed a kid.

So I guess it's not just the Uncle Jimbo defense, but also the "I'm not touching you, na na boo boo!" defense.  I cite my parents' decision as precedence, however, when that didn't work when my brother was eight years old. and I thumped him in the head in the backseat of the station wagon.
 
2013-07-16 01:56:30 PM  

Tellingthem: Elegy: Bonus fun fact: the prosecutor responsible for prosecuting Marissa Alexander was Angela Corey, the same champion of racial injustice that was the head of the prosecution team on the Zimmerman case.
Also note that Ronald Thompson got a 20 year sentence for firing warning shots. He was also prosecuted by Angela Corey. And he is a white army veteran. So yes even white people get convicted of crimes and sentenced to mandatory minimums in flordia. And there are others serving 20 years under that law...

Link

Orville Lee Wollard, a former auxiliary police force member, shot a bullet into the wall to scare away his daughter's abusive boyfriend. Prosecutors offered him probation. But he wanted to be exonerated at trial. Now he's serving 20 years.

Erik Weyant, 22, fired shots in the air to disperse a group of drunk men who accosted him in a parking lot outside a bar and blocked his car. No one was hurt. But he's in for 20 years.


I agree with both of you that this doesn't have anything to do with race even though the trolls are out saying otherwise.  That said, I do think 20 years is too stiff a penalty for warning shots where no one is injured.  Keep in mind I'm only talking about warning shots.  If other crimes are committed along with the warning shots, then 20 years might make sense, depending on those other crimes.
 
2013-07-16 01:56:30 PM  

Elegy: I see the Marissa Alexander case is going to be the next Florida outrage du jour based on a false racial narrative and biased media reporting. I saw it being pushed on CNN last night.


To make your post shorter, you just have to point out that "warning shots" are illegal, as they are shots being fired without a specific target in mind that is posing a threat to you. That's what REALLY farked her. People have used the "Stand Your Ground" laws to justify chasing people down a couple of blocks, but the warning shots are uncontrolled shots in city limits.
 
2013-07-16 01:58:59 PM  

Wise_Guy: If someone attacks you and is on top of you beating the crap out of you, slamming your head into the ground, at what point do you defend yourself?


Again, do we have any evidence of this happening?  I honestly don't know, but I had never heard of him going to the hospital or having any medical issues after the fact.  And the video the night of the shooting shows him strolling out of the police station under his own power and seemingly fine.  If police procedure in Florida is anything like it was in Virginia when I was an officer, when taken into custody, any sign of injury immediately means a trip to the hospital or at the very least calling out the medics to make sure they're ok before taking them to lockup.  

I heard the lawyer arguing that he was getting pummeled to death, but haven't actually seen any evidence to support that.  Near as I have heard, he had a bloody, possibly broken nose, and two black eyes that come with that.  No skull fracture, bruising to the  back of the head, or anything else.  In my experience as both a police officer and a medic, that usually means someone got punched in the face for being a dick, but the rest of the story is made up nonsense.
 
2013-07-16 01:59:27 PM  

Shadowknight: and when the kid finally let his emotions get away from him


I never commented during the case, but what bothers me about TDS and so many comments is the euphemisms for "attacked Zimmerman". If people really feel he was justified then say it, trying to come up with little phrases that avoid what actually happened makes it seem like you don't think Martin's actions were reasonable.
 
2013-07-16 02:00:45 PM  

Shadowknight: Again, do we have any evidence of this happening? I honestly don't know, but I had never heard of him going to the hospital or having any medical issues after the fact.


Didn't a neighbor feel Martin's attack on Zimmerman required calling 911 for emergency police intervention?
 
2013-07-16 02:01:07 PM  

Shadowknight: I am not saying that he deserved to get his ass beat, legally.  Morally, yes.  He deserved to get his ass beat for being a racist dick.  But legally, no. But come on, he followed the kid, harassed him, and when the kid finally let his emotions get away from him, he pulled a gun (the source of his confidence going into this, I'm sure) and killed a kid.


He didn't "let his emotions get away from him." He attacked him.  It's not like her verbally confronted him or asked him what he was doing.  He attacked him because he was a thug and thought he could beat Zimmerman's ass and there was nothing Zimmerman could do about it. Guess what-- he was wrong.  He made a huge error in judgement and it cost him his life.
 
2013-07-16 02:01:27 PM  

Shadowknight: everything that I felt


I bet you and I felt a lot of the same things about this case. I went ahead and learned something. Amazing what knowledge does for feelings.
 
2013-07-16 02:02:23 PM  

Lucksbane: She got black charred flesh from hot coffee?  I'm not sure that is possible.



A third degree burn is a third degree burn, regardless of the source. The pictures are on this page, I'm not posting them directly because they're nasty, but there's a pic about 1/4 of the way down.

http://www.scarymommy.com/message-board/index.php?p=/discussion/15842 / mcdonalds-hot-coffee-burns-lawsuit-graphic-content-warning/p1">http:/ /www.scarymommy.com/message-board/index.php?p=/discussion/15842/ mcdonalds-hot-coffee-burns-lawsuit-graphic-content-warning/p1

It was found that McDonald's was keeping the coffee above what would be considered a safe level specifically because by keeping it hotter, they could make a pot last longer. At first I thought it was a bullshiat lawsuit as well, but when you read the actual facts, the coffee was FAR too hot to be safe, it was so hot that it was softening the styrofoam cup.

Sure, it's called the "poster child for frivolous lawsuits", that doesn't actually make it true. The media blew this story up in the wrong ways, and the woman got serious burns. I'm serious, check out the pics and think about it.
 
2013-07-16 02:03:18 PM  

Lucksbane: factoryconnection: Elegy: You can read more here.

How about I promise to not talk about it any more?  I get too emotional with DV stuff.

Loki009: There is no way you are going to convince me that the laws in Florida aren't broken when you can spill a McDonalds hot coffee in your lap while driving and win close to a $10 million dollar law suit.

That McD's "hot coffee" story is another one that has been mutilated and re-assembled into a Frankenstein's monster of case law history.  That woman didn't get any "millions," but she did get third-degree burns.

She got black charred flesh from hot coffee?  I'm not sure that is possible.


They only way there would be any discoloration would be from staining. I dont know about coffee (I dont drink it myself) , but I have used tea to dye fabric. I am sure that coffee could (at least temporarily) cause similar discoloration on the skin
 
2013-07-16 02:05:09 PM  
If I were to change the law I'd put in a provision barring the use of self defense as a legal defense in situations where the accused initiated the contact or escalated the situation that later required them to defend themselves.

I'd also be happy to ban concealed (or open) carry of firearms for non-law enforcement personnel.  If you want to have a gun in your house for protection, fine, but you can't take it out on the street with you.  There would have to be some provisions for hunting and transporting guns, perhaps unloaded and in a lockbox, for target practice, but there would be ways to work those details out.

Of course, that would likely require a constitutional amendment because of the way the Supreme Court has ruled on the 2nd and the right to concealed carry.
 
2013-07-16 02:06:31 PM  

Shadowknight: Wise_Guy: If someone attacks you and is on top of you beating the crap out of you, slamming your head into the ground, at what point do you defend yourself?

Again, do we have any evidence of this happening?  I honestly don't know, but I had never heard of him going to the hospital or having any medical issues after the fact.  And the video the night of the shooting shows him strolling out of the police station under his own power and seemingly fine.  If police procedure in Florida is anything like it was in Virginia when I was an officer, when taken into custody, any sign of injury immediately means a trip to the hospital or at the very least calling out the medics to make sure they're ok before taking them to lockup.  

I heard the lawyer arguing that he was getting pummeled to death, but haven't actually seen any evidence to support that.  Near as I have heard, he had a bloody, possibly broken nose, and two black eyes that come with that.  No skull fracture, bruising to the  back of the head, or anything else.  In my experience as both a police officer and a medic, that usually means someone got punched in the face for being a dick, but the rest of the story is made up nonsense.


i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com
 
2013-07-16 02:07:53 PM  

Mikey1969: Lucksbane: She got black charred flesh from hot coffee?  I'm not sure that is possible.


A third degree burn is a third degree burn, regardless of the source. The pictures are on this page, I'm not posting them directly because they're nasty, but there's a pic about 1/4 of the way down.

http://www.scarymommy.com/message-board/index.php?p=/discussion/15842 / mcdonalds-hot-coffee-burns-lawsuit-graphic-content-warning/p1">http:/ /www.scarymommy.com/message-board/index.php?p=/discussion/15842/ mcdonalds-hot-coffee-burns-lawsuit-graphic-content-warning/p1

It was found that McDonald's was keeping the coffee above what would be considered a safe level specifically because by keeping it hotter, they could make a pot last longer. At first I thought it was a bullshiat lawsuit as well, but when you read the actual facts, the coffee was FAR too hot to be safe, it was so hot that it was softening the styrofoam cup.

Sure, it's called the "poster child for frivolous lawsuits", that doesn't actually make it true. The media blew this story up in the wrong ways, and the woman got serious burns. I'm serious, check out the pics and think about it.


It's also worth noting that the woman originally only wanted McDonalds to cover her medical bills, which I think were around $10,000.  She only sued after McDonalds refused.
 
2013-07-16 02:10:46 PM  

Wise_Guy: He didn't "let his emotions get away from him." He attacked him.  It's not like her verbally confronted him or asked him what he was doing.  He attacked him because he was a thug and thought he could beat Zimmerman's ass and there was nothing Zimmerman could do about it. Guess what-- he was wrong.  He made a huge error in judgement and it cost him his life.


So Zimmerman following him and harassing him against 911 dispatch's advice and with no legal authority simply because he was armed has no culpability in any of this?  Zimmerman did the same, he confronted Martin because he had a gun and thought there was a suspicious black kid that was up no good and he was going to take care of business because he had a gun and Martin was just some punk.

Yes, both sides were stupid in their preconceived notions and made the wrong choice in action.  But only one of them came with a gun instead of Skittles.  Only one of them went out of his way to cause the confrontation, while the other one was walking back to his friend's house after a trip to the convenience store to buy a drink.  And only one of them ended up dead from said confrontation.

There should be some consequence to all this.  Unfortunately, according to Florida law, Zimmerman was completely fine in his harassment.  So long as he actually killed the kid, I suppose.  If he had missed, he'd be servicing time right now.
 
2013-07-16 02:11:28 PM  
Just as I figured, Coffee does work as a Dye just like Tea.
http://www.ineedcoffee.com/03/dye/

So here we have a state where an old women goes driving down a poorly maintained road with a hot coffee between her legs, ends up spilling it on herself. Claims the stains are "horrific injuries" to try to scam a companies insurance company out of millions and then ends up getting over half a million dollars because McDonalds used 8pt font warning not to pour hot coffee on yourself rather than 10pt font.

What kind of messed up legal system is that?

This is why we cant take anything serious out of Florida.

I wonder why the woman didnt sue the town as well for the potholes. Probably figured they didnt have the insurance for an easy payout and would actually fight the claim.

The sad state of the legal system is the real miscarriage of justice here I tell you!
 
2013-07-16 02:12:28 PM  

s2s2s2: Shadowknight: everything that I felt

I bet you and I felt a lot of the same things about this case. I went ahead and learned something. Amazing what knowledge does for feelings.


What I learned was that as long as you scream "It's coming right for us!" it doesn't matter what kind of a dick you were to provoke the attack.  You are still legal to blow away some kid.
 
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