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(BBC)   Edward Snowden just went full Soviet   (bbc.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Followup, Russia, Soviet  
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10775 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jul 2013 at 9:52 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-16 10:33:56 AM  

vpb: Ned Stark: Fuggin Bizzy: If I was in his shoes, I'd return to the US and face trial. (Torture and execution? Oh horseshiat. We only do that to radicalized Muslims.) After all, his cause is just and he's got a sound case. Right?

Manning isn't a Muslim.

No, and he hasn't been tortured or executed either.


Sure, of you just ignore all the torture he hasn't.
 
2013-07-16 10:35:30 AM  

Ned Stark: Fuggin Bizzy: If I was in his shoes, I'd return to the US and face trial. (Torture and execution? Oh horseshiat. We only do that to radicalized Muslims.) After all, his cause is just and he's got a sound case. Right?

Manning isn't a Muslim.


Meh.  The Manning family's claims of torture are BS.  If you threaten to commit suicide in a military prison they are going to make darned sure you don't.  Id hardly consider that torture.  Same for solitary confinement, when you are charged with leaking sensitive information, they arent likely to let you hang around with a bunch of other people.  The closest you could get to "torture" is that it took a long time to bring him to trial, but thats once again a consequence of the nature of his crime which was releasing a MASSIVE amount of data which all had to be combed through.  Manning is an idiot patsy that jagoff Assange used for his own personal glory.

Having said all that, Snowden wouldnt even be in the same system so using him as an example is more or less pointless.
 
2013-07-16 10:35:47 AM  

WTF Indeed: Marcus Aurelius: You mean "if", right?

If you're naive enough to think that two quasi-dictatorship governments with strategic interests in knowing how the US foreign spy system works have offered Snowden shelter out of the goodness of their own hearts I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.


If you're naive enough to believe that the Russians didn't know all about our spying programs already, I'll sell it back to you at a mark-up.
 
2013-07-16 10:36:05 AM  
NSA Revelations over the last month

How Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages

12 Jul 2013: Documents show company collaborated closely with NSA and FBI to help agencies intercept data

********
The Snowden video sequel and Brazil fallout

 8 Jul 2013: Glenn Greenwald: The worldwide debate over US surveillance which the NSA whistleblower was eager to provoke is clearly emerging

********

The NSA's mass and indiscriminate spying on Brazilians

7 Jul 2013: Glenn Greenwald: As it does in many non-adversarial countries, the surveillance agency is bulk collecting the communications of millions of citizens of Brazil

********

NSA collected US email records in bulk for more than two years under Obama

27 Jun 2013: • Secret program launched by Bush continued 'until 2011'
• Fisa court renewed collection order every 90 days
• Current NSA programs still mine US internet metadata

********

How the NSA is still harvesting your online data

27 Jun 2013: Files show vast scale of current NSA metadata programs, with one stream alone celebrating 'one trillion records processed'

********

GCHQ taps fibre-optic cables for secret access to world's communications

25 June 2013British spy agency collects and stores vast quantities of global email messages, Facebook posts, internet histories and calls, and shares them with NSA

********

The top secret rules that allow NSA to use US data without a warrant

20 Jun 2013: Fisa court submissions show broad scope of procedures governing NSA's surveillance of Americans' communication

********

Fisa court oversight: a look inside a secret and empty process

19 Jun 2013: Glenn Greenwald: Obama and other NSA defenders insist there are robust limitations on surveillance but the documents show otherwise

********

Boundless Informant: the NSA's secret tool to track global surveillance data

11 Jun 2013: Revealed: The NSA's powerful tool for cataloguing global surveillance data - including figures on US collection • Boundless Informant: mission outlined in four slides

********
Obama orders US to draw up overseas target list for cyber-attacks

7 Jun 2013: Exclusive: Top-secret directive steps up offensive cyber capabilities to 'advance US objectives around the world'

********
NSA Prism program taps in to user data of Apple, Google and others

7 Jun 2013: • Top-secret Prism program claims direct access to servers of firms including Google, Apple and Facebook


********

NSA collecting phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily

6 Jun 2013: Exclusive: Top secret court order requiring Verizon to hand over all call data shows scale of domestic surveillance under Obama administration
 
2013-07-16 10:36:58 AM  

sendtodave: Good point.

Go for it, Snowden! If you like girls, I mean!


is it me or does Showden strike you as czarangelus older beefer brother?
 
2013-07-16 10:37:54 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Marcus Aurelius: You sound concerned.

what does that mean? Of course I'm concerned. Does it keep me up at night? No. But when people bring it up I think that something should be done about it. I'd put it someone where between: not as concerned as the over fishing of Blue Tuna but more concerned than the the size restrictions Fark puts on image sizes.


And what's up with the no pics rule in the boobies links?
 
2013-07-16 10:44:10 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: If you're naive enough to believe that the Russians didn't know all about our spying programs already, I'll sell it back to you at a mark-up.


Do you understand the substantive and operative difference between "Of course we know the US spies on us." and "Here's the detailed manner in which the US spies on us."?
 
2013-07-16 10:49:53 AM  
 
2013-07-16 10:50:30 AM  

neversubmit: NSA Revelations Assertions over the last month


Just to pick one so that I address something substantive and not end up with a wall of text:

Fisa court oversight: a look inside a secret and empty process

19 Jun 2013: Glenn Greenwald: Obama and other NSA defenders insist there are robust limitations on surveillance but the documents show otherwise


The documents do nothing of the sort. They show that people generally have their shiat in a pile before submitting a FISA request, and when they don't have all the i's crosse and t's dotted, the Court sends them back for modification rather than just rubber-stamping them, and even then, they have rejected some.

So, no. All the outrage is based on bare assertion rather than any actual proof.

/I know it's i's dotted and t's crossed
 
2013-07-16 10:55:44 AM  
If you have money and a high-prestige education and/or high-prestige job in Russia, it's actually a very nice place to live (applies mostly to Moscow and St. Petersburg only). Perhaps even a nicer place than America; certainly you can get away with much more fun.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-07-16 11:07:11 AM  

Ned Stark: No, and he hasn't been tortured or executed either.

Sure, of you just ignore all the torture he hasn't.



What the solitary confinement and suicide watch (just like in any jail) are torture now?  Come up with some evidence of actual torture, like water boarding then someone will take that seriously.

I especially like this one, from a Daily Kos article:

Upon his initial confinement in Kuwait, Manning's days and nights were reversed, being awoken in the evening and kept up all night.

I used to work a midnight to eight job.  I guess I was being tortured.

Oh and they took his glasses.  Sensory deprivation!

"wellness checklists,"If you put it in quotes then it's torture!
 
2013-07-16 11:07:48 AM  
Someone wants asylum IN Russia? Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's rolling in his grave.
 
2013-07-16 11:09:54 AM  
Much like John Hughes ruined high school for a generation, Tom Clancy has ruined a generation of people understanding nation states, politics, and spy craft.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-07-16 11:11:33 AM  

vygramul: The documents do nothing of the sort. They show that people generally have their shiat in a pile before submitting a FISA request, and when they don't have all the i's crosse and t's dotted, the Court sends them back for modification rather than just rubber-stamping them, and even then, they have rejected some.

So, no. All the outrage is based on bare assertion rather than any actual proof.


It's a bit like how Bush managed to convince much of the country that Saddam Hussein was behind the 9/11 attacks without even making that claim.  Just imply it and the people who want to believe will.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-07-16 11:24:58 AM  

neversubmit: NSA Revelations over the last month


The NSA, which was created to spy on foreigners, spies on foreigners?

So the same laws that have applied to phone taps since 1978 are being applied to internet communications?

Glenn Greenwald claims that his documents show things that they don't actually show?

Shocking revelations.  I wonder why people focus on the messanger and not the "message".
 
2013-07-16 12:09:23 PM  
The Stealth Hippopotamus: [img153.imageshack.us image 392x307]

She is like a redheaded Jewel Staite. Who can say no to that?!


I'd hit that like the Tsar Bomba commrade
 
2013-07-16 12:09:27 PM  
Does this mean he gets free horse rides from Pootie?
 
2013-07-16 12:16:14 PM  

Mawson of the Antarctic: Someone wants asylum IN Russia? Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's rolling in his grave.


Just because he was anti-communist, doesn't mean he was pro-American
"..Solzhenitsyn expressed his admiration for Vladimir Putin's attempts to restore a sense of national pride in Russia." Link
 
2013-07-16 12:47:11 PM  

vygramul: kronicfeld: Mr Kucherena said the fugitive had stated in the application that he faced possible torture and execution if he returned to the US.

Thanks, Cheney.

Yep. That gives it the veneer of credibility. And, of course, treason can lead to execution in most places in the world, so that's credible to begin with. I wonder if they intend to trade him for Adrich Ames.


When Ames dies he should be buried under the prison for his crimes. He's not going anywhere.
 
A7
2013-07-16 06:32:14 PM  
Alternate Headline:

US Just went full Soviet.
 
2013-07-16 08:18:09 PM  

Fuggin Bizzy: If I was in his shoes, I'd return to the US and face trial. (Torture and execution? Oh horseshiat. We only do that to radicalized Muslims.) After all, his cause is just and he's got a sound case. Right?


Given what the Russians do to "useful fools" who are no longer useful, yeah.  Man's an idiot.
 
2013-07-17 07:56:27 AM  
The Rosenburgs should've called themselves "whistle blowers."
 
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