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(CNN)   Australia's biggest winery to pour $30 million worth of wine down the drain because Americans just aren't drinking enough of the cheap stuff. Farkers: Challenge Accepted   (money.cnn.com ) divider line
    More: Sad, Australians, Americans, vineyards, excess capacity  
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2716 clicks; posted to Business » on 16 Jul 2013 at 11:37 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



127 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-07-16 11:27:37 AM  
*whine*
 
2013-07-16 11:32:17 AM  
It's an old Irish belief that your admittance to heaven after you die is dependant on one thing:  When you reach the Pearly Gates you are suspended head first in a barrel filled with all the alcohol you've ever spilled or wasted in your life.  And if you drown?  Well then, to hell with you.


Something tells me the CEO of Treasury wines is in BIG trouble in the afterlife
 
2013-07-16 11:38:40 AM  
Overpriced roo urine

/we got Two Buck Chuck
 
2013-07-16 11:41:13 AM  
It's true!  Americans just don't appreciate a good Australian wine.

  A lot of people in this country pooh-pooh Australian table wines. This is a pity as many fine Australian wines appeal not only to the Australian palate but also to the cognoscenti of United States.

 For example,Black Stump Bordeaux is rightly praised as a peppermint flavoured Burgundy, whilst a good Sydney Syrup can rank with any of the world's best sugary wines.Of the sparkling wines, the most famous is Perth Pink. This is a bottle with a message in, and the message is 'beware'. This is not a wine for drinking, this is a wine for laying down and avoiding.

Another good fighting wine is Melbourne Old-and-Yellow, which is particularly heavy and should be used only for hand-to-hand combat.Quite the reverse is true of Château Chunder, which is an appellation contrôlée, specially grown for those keen on regurgitation; a fine wine which really opens up the sluices at both ends.Real emetic fans will also go for a Hobart Muddy, and a prize winning Cuivre Reserve Château Bottled Nuit San Wogga Wogga, which has a bouquet like an aborigine's armpit.
 
2013-07-16 11:53:03 AM  
I've tried several Australian wines and did not like them.  (all less than $10)  Not fond of most from the USA either.
I'll stick with Spanish and South American (Chile, Argentina) brands.

/more of a beer & bourbon drinker
 
2013-07-16 11:53:18 AM  
Bring us some fresh wine! The freshest you've got - this year! No more of this old stuff.
 
2013-07-16 12:02:03 PM  
if it is that YellowTail crap, good riddance

/bleech
 
2013-07-16 12:07:39 PM  
But Australia's on the other side of the world. So if they pour it down their drains there, it will flow up, to us!
 
2013-07-16 12:09:44 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: It's true!  Americans just don't appreciate a good Australian wine.


The wife and I stockpile Woop Woop Shiraz when it shows up in our local booze stores.  Partly because we love the name 'Woop Woop' and an Aussie friend of ours confirmed it means "Out in the middle of nowhere".  Also, it's tasty.
 
2013-07-16 12:11:11 PM  
perhaps a wine snob can inform us as to why the wines were spoiling, when i thought that many highly coveted wines were kept for years with no detriment to their quality?

/but i guess my ignorance is what is expected from someone who doesn't consider 30 dollar per bottle wine "cheap"
 
2013-07-16 12:21:23 PM  

proteus_b: perhaps a wine snob can inform us as to why the wines were spoiling, when i thought that many highly coveted wines were kept for years with no detriment to their quality?

/but i guess my ignorance is what is expected from someone who doesn't consider 30 dollar per bottle wine "cheap"


Some wines, like say Zinfandel, have a very limited shelf life.  Some, like burgundies or Bordeaux   can age for decades.   Though for most wines, any advantage age gives them stops the moment they are bottled.  In the cask, aging is doing all sorts of interesting things to the wine's chemistry.   In an air tight sealed bottle, not so much.
 
2013-07-16 12:25:01 PM  
The Australian wine industry (ie the big 4 that produce 80% of their wine) screwed themselves.

They emphasized the cheap (<$10) stuff, and didn't put any effort into marketing the other price points.
Then when the quality in Argentina and Chile caught up, and the relative currency values made the South American stuff marginally cheaper, the Australians didn't have anywhere to go.  They couldn't cut prices on the cheap stuff without losing money, and they couldn't raise prices on the cheap-but-good because they had drilled it into Josephine Consumer's head that Australia=cheap.

The independent producers that started at $15-$20 price points and volumes of less than 30k cases/year are doing ok, but the big boys are hurting.  They actually published a plan to be the world's #1 wine producer in 20 years, outproducing France and Italy.  Good luck with that, mates.
 
2013-07-16 12:26:24 PM  

proteus_b: perhaps a wine snob can inform us as to why the wines were spoiling, when i thought that many highly coveted wines were kept for years with no detriment to their quality?

/but i guess my ignorance is what is expected from someone who doesn't consider 30 dollar per bottle wine "cheap"


Pulling things out of my ass from a few areas of food preservation that aren't wine...

...When you can food the acidity of the thing being canned is part of what decides what needs to be done to make it safe for what period of time depending on how it's stored.  Straight up diced tomatoes need some added lemon juice to be safe to put in a glass jar at room temperature for more than a few weeks, or they need to be canned in a pressure cooker to be safe for longer, or they need to be stored cold.  So this wine may not be in a chemical state that is stable for long periods of time based on the way it was bottled, whereas other wines that are intended to be aged for long periods of time may be.

...The fact that it's stored in a warehouse instead of some underground cave might matter.  Temperature fluctuations matter a lot for beer, you want it to go through as few cold/warm transitions as possible, that warehouse may not do a very good job of preventing such transitions, so the wine may have gone through too many.

...It may just not be wine that is capable of keeping for long because it wasn't treated to avoid things that happen at Bottle Time + 3 years or whatever.  Why waste time and effort making wine resistant to aging problems if you expect it to be sold within a year?
 
2013-07-16 12:36:24 PM  

NkThrasher: I_Am_Weasel: It's true!  Americans just don't appreciate a good Australian wine.

The wife and I stockpile Woop Woop Shiraz when it shows up in our local booze stores.  Partly because we love the name 'Woop Woop' and an Aussie friend of ours confirmed it means "Out in the middle of nowhere".  Also, it's tasty.


images.smh.com.au

Approve.
 
2013-07-16 12:47:13 PM  

Magorn: Some wines, like say Zinfandel, have a very limited shelf life. Some, like burgundies or Bordeaux can age for decades. Though for most wines, any advantage age gives them stops the moment they are bottled. In the cask, aging is doing all sorts of interesting things to the wine's chemistry. In an air tight sealed bottle, not so much.


That sounds quite plausible, but nonetheless, when people boast of having a "Chateau de Chacery, 1954", the understanding is that it was bottled in that year. Also, do you know <i> why </i> aging in a cask is different than aging in a bottle?
 
2013-07-16 12:49:54 PM  
They should just raise the price. It'll sell better.
 
2013-07-16 12:50:39 PM  

NkThrasher: ...When you can food the acidity of the thing being canned is part of what decides what needs to be done to make it safe for what period of time depending on how it's stored.


What's desireable? pH neutral?
 
2013-07-16 12:53:26 PM  
Australian wine hit a high in the late 1990's / early 2000's with collectors as the Grateful Palate portfolio came online.  Previously unknown producers entered the market with huge wines... big, in your face fruit bombs that were unlike anything else out there.  Noon.  Fox Creek.  Torbreck.  Duetchke.  Parker loved 'em... 95-100 point scores were common.

Problem is... the wines don't age well (Except the Torbrecks in my experience).  They don't go well with food.  Coupled with a tanking worldwide economy in 2007, the Australian wine market hit hard times.  Tastes had moved on, especially as Aussie prices increased.

Newer wines coming out of Australia are less Parkerized... still undoubtedly new world, but definitely more refined.  That said they don't have much of a place in my collection as for the price they have a hard time keeping up with IMO much better wines from Italy, Spain and Portugal.
 
2013-07-16 12:55:16 PM  

Magorn: Some wines, like say Zinfandel, have a very limited shelf life.


I've had some outstanding older zins from Ridge.  The key is a refined winemaking style... lower %ETOH, less extraction.  The giant high ethanol fruit bombs are best within a few years.
 
2013-07-16 12:56:52 PM  
If no one is buying it, than how do they arrive at the $30 million value?
 
2013-07-16 12:59:27 PM  

proteus_b: What's desireable? pH neutral?


In tomatoes lower is better for canning.  It's about making it hostile to bacteria that might survive the boiling portion of the canning so they can't take over.  Straight up diced tomatoes often aren't acidic enough, so adding lemon juice pushes them over the edge into safety without interfering too much with their taste.  Or you can can them in a pressure cooker (meaning a higher boiling temp, so more hostile to the bacteria).

We learned this when half of our ~25 pound tomato canning adventure turned putrid on us last summer.  Canned sauce was fine, canned diced started bubbling and made an absolutely horrific smell.  This year we're going to can them in the pressure cooker that we bought shortly after realizing they had gone bad.
 
2013-07-16 12:59:58 PM  

Magorn: In an air tight sealed bottle, not so much.


There is likely a bit of oxidation through the cork.  Regardless, though, bottle aging definitely changes wine.  To say nothing else happens once it's in the bottle is probably true for scotch, but is absolutely false for wine.  Phenols and other aromatics change, sedimenet solidifies, tannins soften.  Red wine takes on a more brickish color.  That's the whole point to cellaring, along with the collection aspect of it.  If nothing changed, bottled wine would be eternal which is isn't.
 
2013-07-16 01:00:31 PM  
If they put it in a box it would sell big here.
 
2013-07-16 01:03:48 PM  
Wine so bad not even the Russians will buy it deserves to be poured down the drain.
 
2013-07-16 01:05:11 PM  

proteus_b: Magorn: Some wines, like say Zinfandel, have a very limited shelf life. Some, like burgundies or Bordeaux can age for decades. Though for most wines, any advantage age gives them stops the moment they are bottled. In the cask, aging is doing all sorts of interesting things to the wine's chemistry. In an air tight sealed bottle, not so much.

That sounds quite plausible, but nonetheless, when people boast of having a "Chateau de Chacery, 1954", the understanding is that it was bottled in that year. Also, do you know <i> why </i> aging in a cask is different than aging in a bottle?


They brag about the 1954 but 1) it's old for old's sake 2) That year was a particularly tasty vintage. 3) Rare = expensive = wealth flaunting.

Aging in casks is different than bottles because the wood imparts flavours that a glass or metal container won't. Once the fermenting/aging process is done and the liquid transferred to it's bottles and capped, it's going to stay as is - barring things like leaky corks that will slowly skunk the liquid. Wine, whiskey, vinegar, beer, etc all taste better having all or part of its process in casks.
 
2013-07-16 01:07:22 PM  

proteus_b: Magorn: Some wines, like say Zinfandel, have a very limited shelf life. Some, like burgundies or Bordeaux can age for decades. Though for most wines, any advantage age gives them stops the moment they are bottled. In the cask, aging is doing all sorts of interesting things to the wine's chemistry. In an air tight sealed bottle, not so much.

That sounds quite plausible, but nonetheless, when people boast of having a "Chateau de Chacery, 1954", the understanding is that it was bottled in that year. Also, do you know <i> why </i> aging in a cask is different than aging in a bottle?



In the cask, the chemicals that make up the flavor of wine are exposed to some oxygen and are chemically active.   Once it's bottled in an airtight bottle that process largely stops.  In fact, most of the flavor changes that occur after wine is bottled are considered a bad thing which wine owners try to avoid by keeping the bottles in dark, cool  places.

   So why is , say, a 1963 bottle of blah-blah more valued than a 1983 or 2012 one?

Well it gets complicated, and I am by no means an expert, but:  The "vintage" of a wine is not necessarily the year the wine hit the bottle but the year the grapes were grown and the wine was originally pressed.  Some years the grapes are better than others because the growing conditions (low amounts of rain, a long, hot summer so the grapes have a lower water content) were especially good that year.

 When the grapes are near- perfect, the gowers of a region will "declare a vintage"  and publically announce that, say, the 2005 Bordeaux is gonna be way better than the 2004 or 2003.  Wine "futures" are then sold to wholesalers for that particular vintage, and a vintage year can cost 5x as much as a non-vintage one for a particular bottle.  The wholesalers then have to wait till the wine is actually pressed, aged and finally bottled, which can take several years.

Then they take delivery of thier shares of the vintage and re-sell it to consumers.  That's where prices can go really nuts as the experts taste the wine and rate it, word of mouth spreads, etc.  Suddenly that Bordeaux that's usually say, $50/ bottle that the wholesaler may have paid $250-300/ bottle for is being snapped up by wine enthusiasts for $1,000 or even $10,000 bottle.

Obviously not all wine that special is drunk right away, and much gets stored away as investments or for special occasions.    So when the host busts out say a '45 Chateaux Laffite  the specialness of the wine isn't that it's been sitting around for half a century, but how wonderful the wine made from the grapes of that particulr year were.
 
2013-07-16 01:11:17 PM  
Silly ozzies -- did you really think poor kids' infatuation with Yellow Tail was going to last forever?
 
2013-07-16 01:11:21 PM  

proteus_b: Magorn: Some wines, like say Zinfandel, have a very limited shelf life. Some, like burgundies or Bordeaux can age for decades. Though for most wines, any advantage age gives them stops the moment they are bottled. In the cask, aging is doing all sorts of interesting things to the wine's chemistry. In an air tight sealed bottle, not so much.

That sounds quite plausible, but nonetheless, when people boast of having a "Chateau de Chacery, 1954", the understanding is that it was bottled in that year. Also, do you know <i> why </i> aging in a cask is different than aging in a bottle?


No.

It was HARVESTED in that year.

Aging in a barrel has several external factors going on
1) Contact with the lees (varying levels, depending on racking and stirring practices)
2) Contact with wood
3) Percolation of oxygen through the wood
4) Temperature

Aging in the bottle has
1) Oxygen percolation through the cork
2) Light through the glass (which is almost always bad)
3) Temperature

All those factors can accelerate, retard, or modify the ongoing chemical reactions, that are running at a very slow rate, in any organic solution like wine.
 
2013-07-16 01:11:25 PM  
If you are pouring it down the drain, it is NOT worth $32 mil.  If it was worth $32 mil then you would sell it for $32 mil.

See how that works?
 
2013-07-16 01:18:21 PM  

Magorn: proteus_b: Magorn: Some wines, like say Zinfandel, have a very limited shelf life. Some, like burgundies or Bordeaux can age for decades. Though for most wines, any advantage age gives them stops the moment they are bottled. In the cask, aging is doing all sorts of interesting things to the wine's chemistry. In an air tight sealed bottle, not so much.

That sounds quite plausible, but nonetheless, when people boast of having a "Chateau de Chacery, 1954", the understanding is that it was bottled in that year. Also, do you know <i> why </i> aging in a cask is different than aging in a bottle?


In the cask, <snip>...


That's actually pretty cool. Thank you, it's always fun to learn a bit of trivia.

Curious if there's some sort of oversight to this "declaring a vintage" and what prevents a company from just declaring any random year a "vintage"
 
2013-07-16 01:27:26 PM  

Nexzus: Magorn: proteus_b: Magorn: Some wines, like say Zinfandel, have a very limited shelf life. Some, like burgundies or Bordeaux can age for decades. Though for most wines, any advantage age gives them stops the moment they are bottled. In the cask, aging is doing all sorts of interesting things to the wine's chemistry. In an air tight sealed bottle, not so much.

That sounds quite plausible, but nonetheless, when people boast of having a "Chateau de Chacery, 1954", the understanding is that it was bottled in that year. Also, do you know <i> why </i> aging in a cask is different than aging in a bottle?


In the cask, <snip>...

That's actually pretty cool. Thank you, it's always fun to learn a bit of trivia.

Curious if there's some sort of oversight to this "declaring a vintage" and what prevents a company from just declaring any random year a "vintage"


Declaring a vintage is only done in Port and a few other areas.  What they are saying is that "We, Producer XYZ, think the wine this year is good enough to sell with a vintage year on it".  As opposed to the other years, when they say "We, Producer XYZ, think this wine is not good enough to sell with a vintage year on it.  Instead, we will blend it with the harvests from other years to producer one of our 'base' wines".  Producer XYZ might declare, Producer ABC might not.

Generally, there is no formal, legal oversight, but these people have known each other for generations and usually won't go out of their way to fark with each other.  Again, this is specific to Port and a few other fortified and/or dessert wine zones.  Champagne growers do a similar thing, but it's not called "declaring".

In other parts of the world, where the wines are virtually always sold with the vintage date, winemakers will use second wines.  A second wine is a subsidiary label that contains the stuff that isn't good enough for the top label.  Imagine if GM had one assembly line - as the cars came off the line, they were test-driven.  The best ones got a Cadillac label, the next tier got a Buick label, and the worst ones were sold as Chevrolets.

/want to know more?  I'm available for consultation, private tastings, cellar-building advice, and restaurant wine list development
//I hold a CSW from the American Society of Wine Educators
///been in and out of the business since I was 8 years old
 
2013-07-16 01:32:29 PM  

Nexzus: Curious if there's some sort of oversight to this "declaring a vintage" and what prevents a company from just declaring any random year a "vintage"


Outside of Vintage Port, I believe every other wine region releases wines on a yearly basis, based on the year the grapes were grown and harvested.  I don't think Magorn has his facts correct.
 
2013-07-16 01:33:19 PM  

plcow: If you are pouring it down the drain, it is NOT worth $32 mil.  If it was worth $32 mil then you would sell it for $32 mil.

See how that works?


By that logic we have no value to assign to things that are wasted to get an idea of how much is being wasted.  Which is a pretty useless state to be in.

The caveat is "If the stock were to be sold at current market price" then it would be $32m.  Sure they could flood the market and thus reduce the price due to the increased demand, but whether or not they'd actually make money on it is questionable.  Sure the stock itself isn't truly worth $32m since nobody would buy it at that price.  But it's useful to be able to put a dollar amount on such a group of items for reference to the potential sales that were wasted.
 
2013-07-16 01:40:28 PM  

FrancoFile: Nexzus: Magorn: proteus_b: Magorn: Some wines, like say Zinfandel, have a very limited shelf life. Some, like burgundies or Bordeaux can age for decades. Though for most wines, any advantage age gives them stops the moment they are bottled. In the cask, aging is doing all sorts of interesting things to the wine's chemistry. In an air tight sealed bottle, not so much.

That sounds quite plausible, but nonetheless, when people boast of having a "Chateau de Chacery, 1954", the understanding is that it was bottled in that year. Also, do you know <i> why </i> aging in a cask is different than aging in a bottle?


In the cask, <snip>...

That's actually pretty cool. Thank you, it's always fun to learn a bit of trivia.

Curious if there's some sort of oversight to this "declaring a vintage" and what prevents a company from just declaring any random year a "vintage"

Declaring a vintage is only done in Port and a few other areas.  What they are saying is that "We, Producer XYZ, think the wine this year is good enough to sell with a vintage year on it".  As opposed to the other years, when they say "We, Producer XYZ, think this wine is not good enough to sell with a vintage year on it.  Instead, we will blend it with the harvests from other years to producer one of our 'base' wines".  Producer XYZ might declare, Producer ABC might not.

Generally, there is no formal, legal oversight, but these people have known each other for generations and usually won't go out of their way to fark with each other.  Again, this is specific to Port and a few other fortified and/or dessert wine zones.  Champagne growers do a similar thing, but it's not called "declaring".

In other parts of the world, where the wines are virtually always sold with the vintage date, winemakers will use second wines.  A second wine is a subsidiary label that contains the stuff that isn't good enough for the top label.  Imagine if GM had one assembly line - as the cars came off the line, they w ...


Don't the Bordeaux makers also declare vintages from time to time?  Perhaps not in as formal language, but I'd swear i've seen news stories or press releases from that area in various years declaring how wonderful or not a praticular year's grapes were
 
2013-07-16 01:40:47 PM  

NkThrasher: The caveat is "If the stock were to be sold at current market price" then it would be $32m.  Sure they could flood the market and thus reduce the price due to the increased demand supply, but whether or not they'd actually make money on it is questionable.  Sure the stock itself isn't truly worth $32m since nobody would buy it at that price.  But it's useful to be able to put a dollar amount on such a group of items for reference to the potential sales that were wasted.


Herp.
 
2013-07-16 01:45:56 PM  

Magorn: FrancoFile: Nexzus: Magorn: proteus_b: Magorn: Some wines, like say Zinfandel, have a very limited shelf life. Some, like burgundies or Bordeaux can age for decades. Though for most wines, any advantage age gives them stops the moment they are bottled. In the cask, aging is doing all sorts of interesting things to the wine's chemistry. In an air tight sealed bottle, not so much.

That sounds quite plausible, but nonetheless, when people boast of having a "Chateau de Chacery, 1954", the understanding is that it was bottled in that year. Also, do you know <i> why </i> aging in a cask is different than aging in a bottle?


In the cask, <snip>...

That's actually pretty cool. Thank you, it's always fun to learn a bit of trivia.

Curious if there's some sort of oversight to this "declaring a vintage" and what prevents a company from just declaring any random year a "vintage"

Declaring a vintage is only done in Port and a few other areas.  What they are saying is that "We, Producer XYZ, think the wine this year is good enough to sell with a vintage year on it".  As opposed to the other years, when they say "We, Producer XYZ, think this wine is not good enough to sell with a vintage year on it.  Instead, we will blend it with the harvests from other years to producer one of our 'base' wines".  Producer XYZ might declare, Producer ABC might not.

Generally, there is no formal, legal oversight, but these people have known each other for generations and usually won't go out of their way to fark with each other.  Again, this is specific to Port and a few other fortified and/or dessert wine zones.  Champagne growers do a similar thing, but it's not called "declaring".

In other parts of the world, where the wines are virtually always sold with the vintage date, winemakers will use second wines.  A second wine is a subsidiary label that contains the stuff that isn't good enough for the top label.  Imagine if GM had one assembly line - as the cars came off the ...

Don't the Bordeaux makers also declare vintages from time to time?  Perhaps not in as formal language, but I'd swear i've seen news stories or press releases from that area in various years declaring how wonderful or not a praticular year's grapes were



That's not 'declaring'.  That's just saying "2000 is an excellent year", "2003 is the best vintage of the decade", etc.  More the wine press than the winemakers themselves.
 
2013-07-16 01:51:53 PM  

Magorn: Don't the Bordeaux makers also declare vintages from time to time?  Perhaps not in as formal language, but I'd swear i've seen news stories or press releases from that area in various years declaring how wonderful or not a praticular year's grapes were


Bordeaux releases wine every year.  Some (2000, 1995, 1989, 1982 for example) are truly excellent... some not so much.  Vintages vary drastically due to weather and growing conditions.  That said, every year a vintage is released.

In a truly dreadful year a particular chateau man not release its flagship wine, but that is house to house dependent.

Portugal (vintage Port) is the exception.  A Vintage Year isn't declared yearly.  In non-vintage years the houses may release LBV (late bottled vintage) Ports, or may simply put those wines into non-vintage wines.

Wine laws vary from region and country, but for the most part Most wineries release wines every year and label them as such (by their year or vintage).
 
2013-07-16 02:02:01 PM  
Drain? Fark that, at least have the decency to turn it into brandy or ethanol fuel or something.
 
2013-07-16 02:21:40 PM  
DNRTFA

Is it the Yellow Tail wine? Also, why throw it away, doesn't wine improve with age? Why not keep it, age it, sell it next year as "special reserve" or something?
 
2013-07-16 02:25:16 PM  

TrainingWheelsNeeded: DNRTFA

Is it the Yellow Tail wine? Also, why throw it away, doesn't wine improve with age? Why not keep it, age it, sell it next year as "special reserve" or something?


you also DNRTFT.  We've covered that.  Most wines don't improve with age.  These are wines that are headed downhill rapidly.
 
2013-07-16 02:25:42 PM  
I've heard that Australian wine is good because it has less tannins so you're less likely to get a hangover.

I've also had many bottles of Blue Eyed Boy and highly recommend it.
vinesleuth.com
 
2013-07-16 02:27:54 PM  

TrainingWheelsNeeded: Is it the Yellow Tail wine? Also, why throw it away, doesn't wine improve with age? Why not keep it, age it, sell it next year as "special reserve" or something?


No.  Once wine reaches a certain point, it starts to fall apart.  Poorly made wines (over extracted, high alcohol, etc) wines fall apart much faster, as do certain wine types (ie Sauvignon Blanc doesn't age well, Cabernet Sauvignon ages better).  In this case the wine represented a surplus sitting in warehouses.  As the wine aged in bottle it started to get to the point that it was worsening.  At that point, unless it can be sold as clearance (assuming quality was OK), it is worthless.  Selling flawed wine is a surefire way to ensure your future wines won't sell.
 
2013-07-16 02:39:25 PM  

omahatattoo: I've heard that Australian wine is good because it has less tannins so you're less likely to get a hangover.

I've also had many bottles of Blue Eyed Boy and highly recommend it.
[vinesleuth.com image 500x667]


1) Tannins don't cause hangovers.
2) If anything, Australian wines have more tannin than French (grape-for-grape) because of their hotter, drier growing conditions.

/Gigglepot is my favorite Mollydooker
 
2013-07-16 02:43:16 PM  
Idiots.
That is a lot of wine/vinegar/sugar/water.
That all could be put to good use.
You could let it go to vinegar, and pickle free watermelon rinds, and make a tidy profit with a warehouse full of specialty pickled rinds.
 
2013-07-16 02:43:39 PM  

NkThrasher: Temperature fluctuations matter a lot for beer, you want it to go through as few cold/warm transitions as possible


No they don't. It's not the "fluctuation" it's the temperature. Taking a beer to 70 to 39 to 70 to 39 in one hour won't do anything appreciable. Though taking it to 70, and keeping it there for a week might.
 
2013-07-16 02:44:55 PM  

FrancoFile: omahatattoo: I've heard that Australian wine is good because it has less tannins so you're less likely to get a hangover.

I've also had many bottles of Blue Eyed Boy and highly recommend it.
[vinesleuth.com image 500x667]

1) Tannins don't cause hangovers.
2) If anything, Australian wines have more tannin than French (grape-for-grape) because of their hotter, drier growing conditions.

/Gigglepot is my favorite Mollydooker


Noted and noted.  I'll have to see if I can locate a Gigglepot
 
2013-07-16 02:44:59 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: It's true!  Americans just don't appreciate a good Australian wine.

  A lot of people in this country pooh-pooh Australian table wines. This is a pity as many fine Australian wines appeal not only to the Australian palate but also to the cognoscenti of United States.

 For example,Black Stump Bordeaux is rightly praised as a peppermint flavoured Burgundy, whilst a good Sydney Syrup can rank with any of the world's best sugary wines.Of the sparkling wines, the most famous is Perth Pink. This is a bottle with a message in, and the message is 'beware'. This is not a wine for drinking, this is a wine for laying down and avoiding.

Another good fighting wine is Melbourne Old-and-Yellow, which is particularly heavy and should be used only for hand-to-hand combat.Quite the reverse is true of Château Chunder, which is an appellation contrôlée, specially grown for those keen on regurgitation; a fine wine which really opens up the sluices at both ends.Real emetic fans will also go for a Hobart Muddy, and a prize winning Cuivre Reserve Château Bottled Nuit San Wogga Wogga, which has a bouquet like an aborigine's armpit.


ole stuff that monty python
 
2013-07-16 02:52:35 PM  

impaler: NkThrasher: Temperature fluctuations matter a lot for beer, you want it to go through as few cold/warm transitions as possible

No they don't. It's not the "fluctuation" it's the temperature. Taking a beer to 70 to 39 to 70 to 39 in one hour won't do anything appreciable. Though taking it to 70, and keeping it there for a week might.


I'll freely admit I'm a brewing newbie, my first batch finishes in a few weeks.  But I have read on various forums scattered about on several occasions that transitioning from warm/cold and back again eventually does have an impact on bottled beer in addition to storing it at the wrong temp.  If you're talking about extended aging of something in a non-carefully controlled environment and under the assumption that transitions do matter if enough of them occur, I'd consider it a valid thought.
 
2013-07-16 02:53:22 PM  
Had an Australian girl in Vienna tell me over wine that she tried a California wine once that even though she thought all American booze was shiat it was "quite good." Then followed up with "I didn't even know they made wine in California!"

Yep.
 
2013-07-16 02:54:14 PM  
They should give it to the aboriginal people to keep them from drinking Sterno.
 
2013-07-16 02:56:07 PM  

FrancoFile: Generally, there is no formal, legal oversight, but these people have known each other for generations and usually won't go out of their way to fark with each other.


Refreshing to hear that. Here in North America, companies in all industries will stop at pretty much nothing to gain another 1/4 percentage of market share/stock price increase.
 
2013-07-16 02:58:21 PM  
Meanwhile in Australia

thecrushpodcast.com
 
2013-07-16 03:03:56 PM  
I don't drink imports. Who wants wine that's been sitting on a cargo ship for weeks or months when you can get fresher wine from your local farmers.
 
2013-07-16 03:07:05 PM  

vudukungfu: Idiots.
That is a lot of wine/vinegar/sugar/water.
That all could be put to good use.
You could let it go to vinegar, and pickle free watermelon rinds, and make a tidy profit with a warehouse full of specialty pickled rinds.


The get a rebate on any excise taxes they paid on wine they destroy, which might have a lot to do with the "dump it" decision
 
2013-07-16 03:08:35 PM  

plcow: If you are pouring it down the drain, it is NOT worth $32 mil.  If it was worth $32 mil then you would sell it for $32 mil.

See how that works?


The value is whatever their CPA firm lets them write off as business losses.
 
2013-07-16 03:09:14 PM  

Nexzus: FrancoFile: Generally, there is no formal, legal oversight, but these people have known each other for generations and usually won't go out of their way to fark with each other.

Refreshing to hear that. Here in North America, companies in all industries will stop at pretty much nothing to gain another 1/4 percentage of market share/stock price increase.


Don't kid yourself.  They are as much a cartel as the publishing and banking industries are.

I said they don't fark each other; they can still fark their customers.
 
2013-07-16 03:09:33 PM  

Lost Thought 00: I don't drink imports. Who wants wine that's been sitting on a cargo ship for weeks or months when you can get fresher wine from your local farmers.


Since my son has worked in the summer in a local vineyard, I approve this message

/Virginia Wine-it doesn't ALL suck
 
2013-07-16 03:20:00 PM  

FrancoFile: proteus_b: Magorn: Some wines, like say Zinfandel, have a very limited shelf life. Some, like burgundies or Bordeaux can age for decades. Though for most wines, any advantage age gives them stops the moment they are bottled. In the cask, aging is doing all sorts of interesting things to the wine's chemistry. In an air tight sealed bottle, not so much.

That sounds quite plausible, but nonetheless, when people boast of having a "Chateau de Chacery, 1954", the understanding is that it was bottled in that year. Also, do you know <i> why </i> aging in a cask is different than aging in a bottle?

No.

It was HARVESTED in that year.

Aging in a barrel has several external factors going on
1) Contact with the lees (varying levels, depending on racking and stirring practices)
2) Contact with wood
3) Percolation of oxygen through the wood
4) Temperature

Aging in the bottle has
1) Oxygen percolation through the cork
2) Light through the glass (which is almost always bad)
3) Temperature


All those factors can accelerate, retard, or modify the ongoing chemical reactions, that are running at a very slow rate, in any organic solution like wine.


Those are probably the killers in this case.  Tons of cheap moscato in clear glass sitting in a non-climate controlled warehouse is just asking for spoilage.  Hell, I can't drink Yuengling at my parent's golf course club when  visit because they store it in a brightly lit soda fridge.
 
2013-07-16 03:22:42 PM  

impaler: NkThrasher: Temperature fluctuations matter a lot for beer, you want it to go through as few cold/warm transitions as possible

No they don't. It's not the "fluctuation" it's the temperature. Taking a beer to 70 to 39 to 70 to 39 in one hour won't do anything appreciable. Though taking it to 70, and keeping it there for a week might.


Yes, but consider a warehouse.  Now you're taking that beer (or wine, in the case of FTA) from 70 at night to 90-110 during the day.  That's going to fark that poor bottle right in the flavor-can
 
2013-07-16 03:24:40 PM  
dudefoods.com

Plus

t3.gstatic.com

= A fine vintage pruno
 
2013-07-16 03:27:59 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: For example,Black Stump Bordeaux is rightly praised as a peppermint flavoured Burgundy, whilst a good Sydney Syrup can rank with any of the world's best sugary wines.Of the sparkling wines, the most famous is Perth Pink. This is a bottle with a message in, and the message is 'beware'. This is not a wine for drinking, this is a wine for laying down and avoiding.


If it's from Australia, it's not a Bordeaux.

My guest bedroom:
i58.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-16 03:39:23 PM  
Headline reminds me of the hundreds of barrels of Jack Daniels that had to be dumped some years back... Just sad
 
2013-07-16 03:40:50 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: I_Am_Weasel: For example,Black Stump Bordeaux is rightly praised as a peppermint flavoured Burgundy, whilst a good Sydney Syrup can rank with any of the world's best sugary wines.Of the sparkling wines, the most famous is Perth Pink. This is a bottle with a message in, and the message is 'beware'. This is not a wine for drinking, this is a wine for laying down and avoiding.

If it's from Australia, it's not a Bordeaux.

My guest bedroom:
[i58.photobucket.com image 850x637]


One side of my cellar.  I have a max capacity of about 1200 bottles.

farm4.staticflickr.com
 
2013-07-16 03:45:03 PM  
Can you hear, can you hear the thunder?
 
2013-07-16 03:52:37 PM  

Where wolf: impaler: NkThrasher: Temperature fluctuations matter a lot for beer, you want it to go through as few cold/warm transitions as possible

No they don't. It's not the "fluctuation" it's the temperature. Taking a beer to 70 to 39 to 70 to 39 in one hour won't do anything appreciable. Though taking it to 70, and keeping it there for a week might.

Yes, but consider a warehouse.  Now you're taking that beer (or wine, in the case of FTA) from 70 at night to 90-110 during the day.  That's going to fark that poor bottle right in the flavor-can


So much this. Now, as to why these wines didnt really sell ? Salespeople rarely push Aussie wines anymore. I put a lot of blame in DIageos' corner- they have been buying up a lot of California wineries and pushing "new " brands very hard the past 2 years.
 
2013-07-16 03:53:13 PM  

FrancoFile: Satanic_Hamster: I_Am_Weasel: For example,Black Stump Bordeaux is rightly praised as a peppermint flavoured Burgundy, whilst a good Sydney Syrup can rank with any of the world's best sugary wines.Of the sparkling wines, the most famous is Perth Pink. This is a bottle with a message in, and the message is 'beware'. This is not a wine for drinking, this is a wine for laying down and avoiding.

If it's from Australia, it's not a Bordeaux.

My guest bedroom:
[i58.photobucket.com image 850x637]

One side of my cellar.  I have a max capacity of about 1200 bottles.

[farm4.staticflickr.com image 500x374]


Amateurs...my personal cellar at BevMo is always fully stocked.
images.onset.freedom.com
 
2013-07-16 03:54:31 PM  

Stone Meadow: FrancoFile: Satanic_Hamster: I_Am_Weasel: For example,Black Stump Bordeaux is rightly praised as a peppermint flavoured Burgundy, whilst a good Sydney Syrup can rank with any of the world's best sugary wines.Of the sparkling wines, the most famous is Perth Pink. This is a bottle with a message in, and the message is 'beware'. This is not a wine for drinking, this is a wine for laying down and avoiding.

If it's from Australia, it's not a Bordeaux.

My guest bedroom:
[i58.photobucket.com image 850x637]

One side of my cellar.  I have a max capacity of about 1200 bottles.

[farm4.staticflickr.com image 500x374]

Amateurs...my personal cellar at BevMo is always fully stocked.
[images.onset.freedom.com image 600x450]



Good luck finding a 95 Bordeaux or 97 Barolo in there...
 
2013-07-16 03:58:18 PM  

FrancoFile: Stone Meadow: FrancoFile: Satanic_Hamster: I_Am_Weasel: For example,Black Stump Bordeaux is rightly praised as a peppermint flavoured Burgundy, whilst a good Sydney Syrup can rank with any of the world's best sugary wines.Of the sparkling wines, the most famous is Perth Pink. This is a bottle with a message in, and the message is 'beware'. This is not a wine for drinking, this is a wine for laying down and avoiding.

If it's from Australia, it's not a Bordeaux.

My guest bedroom:
[i58.photobucket.com image 850x637]

One side of my cellar.  I have a max capacity of about 1200 bottles.

[farm4.staticflickr.com image 500x374]

Amateurs...my personal cellar at BevMo is always fully stocked.
[images.onset.freedom.com image 600x450]

Good luck finding a 95 Bordeaux or 97 Barolo in there...


Actually, this is more my style...
i.huffpost.com
 
2013-07-16 04:08:06 PM  

FrancoFile: One side of my cellar. I have a max capacity of about 1200 bottles.

farm4.staticflickr.com


Nice.  Home made or kit?

Looked into that style, was trying to maximize bottle capacity per linear foot and bottle capacity per dollar spent.
 
2013-07-16 04:14:39 PM  

Nuclear Monk: If no one is buying it, than how do they arrive at the $30 million value?


Their accountants are former cops.
 
2013-07-16 04:25:03 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: FrancoFile: One side of my cellar. I have a max capacity of about 1200 bottles.

farm4.staticflickr.com

Nice.  Home made or kit?

Looked into that style, was trying to maximize bottle capacity per linear foot and bottle capacity per dollar spent.


Homemade.

Dad and I are both engineers.  We did internet design sessions in 92, he pre-cut some lumber and brought it out with the drill press and a fixture he constructed for the shelves (which are freely removable).  Built the whole thing in a week, including re-routing plumbing, running electric, putting in walls and insulation and custom 5" door, mounting shelf brackets, and testing the first couple of shelf units.  Then I built shelves as I had time.  Kind of funny to have the drill press and workmate bench in front of my townhouse, along with a big bucket of screws, turning out shelf units.

Key dimension is 4" - that's the horizontal separation between bottles.  The shelves are ~5.5" center-to-center vertically- they are made of 1x2s on edge to form a rectangular frame, with 2x2s sliced diagonally on top as bottle separators.  The longest shelf I have is 18 bottles (6 feet).  That's pushing it for strength of 1x2 - they sag about 1/2" when fully loaded.

The shelves work fine for standard Bordeaux, Burgundy, and Champagne bottles, as well as for half-bottles.

The shelves you are looking at are 12 bottles wide x 2 deep - I have 2 stacks of those.  The other stack is 18 bottles wide by 1 deep, one stack on the left side that you can't see.

If I did it again, I'd make the shelves 14" and 28" deep, instead of 12" and 24" -- tall Alsatian bottles stick out just a bit.  I'd also make a purpose-built section for large-format bottles.

If you know where to go to buy lumber, and have the appropriate equipment, it's not very expensive.  We probably spent almost as much on insulation, framing, panelling, and the door as we did on the shelving.  And it's hard to beat the cool factor.
 
2013-07-16 04:28:38 PM  

jst3p: [dudefoods.com image 484x648]

Plus

[t3.gstatic.com image 259x194]

= A fine vintage pruno


sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-07-16 05:10:53 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: It's true!  Americans just don't appreciate a good Australian wine.

  A lot of people in this country pooh-pooh Australian table wines. This is a pity as many fine Australian wines appeal not only to the Australian palate but also to the cognoscenti of United States.


A lot of people in this country poo poo anything that they heard another person poo poo and decide that sharing that opinion will make them look cool.

Also, for whatever reason many Americans seem to favor big heavy oaky type wines as opposed to fruitier or cleaner options.  I'm cool with that though as I can't stand most Cabs or Zins.
 
2013-07-16 05:11:57 PM  
The company is also offering up to $40 million AUS in discounts and rebates to its distributors to ensure it can get its excess capacity out to the thirsty public as quickly as possible.

This is an advertisment; it's the vineyard's version of "BIG GOING OUT OF BUSINESS SALE!  ALL INVENTORY MUST GO! PRICES ARE BEING SLASHED!!"  disguised as a news article.
 
2013-07-16 05:12:40 PM  

Nuclear Monk: If no one is buying it, than how do they arrive at the $30 million value?


That is how much they are writing off of their taxes.  It's like when you donate that $50 pair of old jeans to Good Will. ;)
 
2013-07-16 05:14:20 PM  
This may have been asked earlier, but doesn't wine get better with age? Why throw out aged wine?
 
2013-07-16 05:22:47 PM  

jst3p: [dudefoods.com image 484x648]

Plus

[t3.gstatic.com image 259x194]

= A fine vintage pruno


Course it's shank or be shanked..
 
2013-07-16 05:23:01 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: This may have been asked earlier, but doesn't wine get better with age? Why throw out aged wine?


Presuming you're serious, not all wine ages well, and even the stuff that does doesn't improve infinitely. It still hits a tipping point where it will start going bad.
 
2013-07-16 05:37:14 PM  
Pour it out?  POUR IT OUT?  At least distill it into brandy
 
2013-07-16 05:52:34 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Pour it out?  POUR IT OUT?  At least distill it into brandy


Probably doesn't have enough acidity to turn into decent brandy.  They don't list the varieties involved, but I'm suspecting low-tier Pinot Grigio, Sauvignon Blanc, Riesling, etc. - which are all made for a female palate that wants sugar and no detectable acidity, plus lower alcohol.

Not to mention that these have all been bottled.  Are you gonna pay somebody to unglue the cases and twist off the screwcaps for umpty-hundred-thousand bottles of over-the-hill wine in order to produce some indifferent spirits, that will then require barrel aging to turn into (debatably) drinkable brandy?

The stuff shouldn't have been bottled and sent to the US in the first place.  They misread the market (or had some bastard long-term contract with messed-up incentive clauses) and they are stuck with it.  At this point, it's slightly-polluted water and should be treated as such.  "Dude, don't waste beer" is for college students, not multi-million-dollar wine importers.

Other than the timescale, it's no different from the grocery chain that goes big on watermelons before the 4th of July picnic season and has to toss them from the warehouse when it rains for 2 weeks.
 
2013-07-16 05:58:34 PM  

FrancoFile: Smeggy Smurf: Pour it out?  POUR IT OUT?  At least distill it into brandy

Probably doesn't have enough acidity to turn into decent brandy.  They don't list the varieties involved, but I'm suspecting low-tier Pinot Grigio, Sauvignon Blanc, Riesling, etc. - which are all made for a female palate that wants sugar and no detectable acidity, plus lower alcohol.

Not to mention that these have all been bottled.  Are you gonna pay somebody to unglue the cases and twist off the screwcaps for umpty-hundred-thousand bottles of over-the-hill wine in order to produce some indifferent spirits, that will then require barrel aging to turn into (debatably) drinkable brandy?

The stuff shouldn't have been bottled and sent to the US in the first place.  They misread the market (or had some bastard long-term contract with messed-up incentive clauses) and they are stuck with it.  At this point, it's slightly-polluted water and should be treated as such.  "Dude, don't waste beer" is for college students, not multi-million-dollar wine importers.

Other than the timescale, it's no different from the grocery chain that goes big on watermelons before the 4th of July picnic season and has to toss them from the warehouse when it rains for 2 weeks.


Still...  it could have been brandy...  it's a sad day
 
2013-07-16 06:15:49 PM  

Lunchlady: Had an Australian girl in Vienna tell me over wine that she tried a California wine once that even though she thought all American booze was shiat it was "quite good." Then followed up with "I didn't even know they made wine in California!"


Not sure if you've heard this, but America was founded by people who were smart enough to get out of England, while Australia was founded by those who were thrown out!
 
2013-07-16 06:56:47 PM  

nocturnal001: Nuclear Monk: If no one is buying it, than how do they arrive at the $30 million value?

That is how much they are writing off of their taxes.  It's like when you donate that $50 pair of old jeans to Good Will. ;)


Close, part of the value is that they already paid the taxes.  I work in a winery, and we have to pay taxes on wine before we sell it.  (sales tax is separate).
When you donate the jeans, you declare the value.  In this case, the value is  in taxes (at least part).  Now, what they get to write off as a loss is different, and may make up some other portion of the equation.

And this actually ties in close to the "why not distill it?" question.  The price per gallon they could get for selling it to a distiller was less than the taxes they paid on the wine already.  By dumping the wine, they get the taxes back or can apply it to another wine.  The returned taxes are a greater value than the distillation value, so it gets dumped.  Also goes to show how much taxes on alcohol are.  I guess it might be possible to get the taxes back when sold bond to bond to a distiller, but I am not sure on that point.  I don't sell to distillers.
 
2013-07-16 07:01:20 PM  

proteus_b: Lunchlady: Had an Australian girl in Vienna tell me over wine that she tried a California wine once that even though she thought all American booze was shiat it was "quite good." Then followed up with "I didn't even know they made wine in California!"

Not sure if you've heard this, but America was founded by people who were smart enough to get out of England, while Australia was founded by those who were thrown out!


Technically speaking, both Aus and the US had both voluntary and involuntary folks. And no, I am not referring to slave shipping.
 
2013-07-16 07:04:49 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: nocturnal001: Nuclear Monk: If no one is buying it, than how do they arrive at the $30 million value?

That is how much they are writing off of their taxes.  It's like when you donate that $50 pair of old jeans to Good Will. ;)

Close, part of the value is that they already paid the taxes.  I work in a winery, and we have to pay taxes on wine before we sell it.  (sales tax is separate).
When you donate the jeans, you declare the value.  In this case, the value is  in taxes (at least part).  Now, what they get to write off as a loss is different, and may make up some other portion of the equation.

And this actually ties in close to the "why not distill it?" question.  The price per gallon they could get for selling it to a distiller was less than the taxes they paid on the wine already.  By dumping the wine, they get the taxes back or can apply it to another wine.  The returned taxes are a greater value than the distillation value, so it gets dumped.  Also goes to show how much taxes on alcohol are.  I guess it might be possible to get the taxes back when sold bond to bond to a distiller, but I am not sure on that point.  I don't sell to distillers.


Maybe there could be an exception to the tax when selling surplus to a distiller? (or vinegar maker)
 
2013-07-16 07:08:26 PM  
Ozzy wines and grapes are ok.  It's not like I seek it out when filling the chiller however.  If you give me a lifetime pass to Dry Creek in Sonoma, well now, you're talking. I've had all kinds of  wines in all kinds of price ranges and the single best bottle of wine I've ever tasted was a 35 dollar bottle of Dry Creeks 2009 Gold Chardonnay at Trulucks Stone Crab.  It was a limited bottling and it was fantastic. And you can't buy in retail. Bastards.

/not a wine snob
//just like good hooch
 
2013-07-16 07:08:40 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: I_Am_Weasel: For example,Black Stump Bordeaux is rightly praised as a peppermint flavoured Burgundy, whilst a good Sydney Syrup can rank with any of the world's best sugary wines.Of the sparkling wines, the most famous is Perth Pink. This is a bottle with a message in, and the message is 'beware'. This is not a wine for drinking, this is a wine for laying down and avoiding.

If it's from Australia, it's not a Bordeaux.

My guest bedroom:
[i58.photobucket.com image 850x637]


Sooo...would you say you have a drinking problem?
 
2013-07-16 07:13:59 PM  

Nuclear Monk: Satanic_Hamster: I_Am_Weasel: For example,Black Stump Bordeaux is rightly praised as a peppermint flavoured Burgundy, whilst a good Sydney Syrup can rank with any of the world's best sugary wines.Of the sparkling wines, the most famous is Perth Pink. This is a bottle with a message in, and the message is 'beware'. This is not a wine for drinking, this is a wine for laying down and avoiding.

If it's from Australia, it's not a Bordeaux.

My guest bedroom:
[i58.photobucket.com image 850x637]

Sooo...would you say you have a drinking problem?


Not if he:
1. Drinks
2. Gets drunk
3. Falls down

No problem.
 
2013-07-16 07:38:25 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: It's true!  Americans just don't appreciate a good Australian wine.

  A lot of people in this country pooh-pooh Australian table wines. This is a pity as many fine Australian wines appeal not only to the Australian palate but also to the cognoscenti of United States.

 For example,Black Stump Bordeaux is rightly praised as a peppermint flavoured Burgundy, whilst a good Sydney Syrup can rank with any of the world's best sugary wines.Of the sparkling wines, the most famous is Perth Pink. This is a bottle with a message in, and the message is 'beware'. This is not a wine for drinking, this is a wine for laying down and avoiding.

Another good fighting wine is Melbourne Old-and-Yellow, which is particularly heavy and should be used only for hand-to-hand combat.Quite the reverse is true of Château Chunder, which is an appellation contrôlée, specially grown for those keen on regurgitation; a fine wine which really opens up the sluices at both ends.Real emetic fans will also go for a Hobart Muddy, and a prize winning Cuivre Reserve Château Bottled Nuit San Wogga Wogga, which has a bouquet like an aborigine's armpit.


Good reviews, Bruce!
 
2013-07-16 07:52:01 PM  
Not a vintner, but my understanding of vintage is that it means the wine was made with grapes from a single year, that's it. Many wines are blends bottled from a range of years, in order to create a consistency from year to year, vintages are not.

/the best part of this thread are the people refuting a Monty Python skit. I haz a chuckle
 
2013-07-16 08:03:58 PM  

GRCooper: Not a vintner, but my understanding of vintage is that it means the wine was made with grapes from a single year, that's it. Many wines are blends bottled from a range of years, in order to create a consistency from year to year, vintages are not.

/the best part of this thread are the people refuting a Monty Python skit. I haz a chuckle


Very few wines are blended across years.  Other than Champagne, Port, and Sherry, <2%
 
2013-07-16 08:22:54 PM  
The least they could do is donate it to homeless shelters
 
2013-07-16 08:26:26 PM  

alienated: Technically speaking, both Aus and the US had both voluntary and involuntary folks. And no, I am not referring to slave shipping.


I know that but what's a little fun between the oceans?
 
2013-07-16 08:32:33 PM  
Maybe there could be an exception to the tax when selling surplus to a distiller? (or vinegar maker)

As far as I know, there isn't, but the margins on wine destined for distillation or vinigar (not including wine made specially for distillation eg: brandy) is so small that maybe the distillers couldn't give them the $1.10 per gallon or whatever it was worth tax wise.  Also, in the end someone has to pay the taxes if it becomes a commercial product.  The Government will get the money somehow.

A winery close to me shut down a few years ago, and the sold the wine to a vinegar maker.  They only ended up with 10 or 11 cents per gallon over the taxes.  And this was before the economy tanked.

What the take away should be, is that this Australian company is making the best decision money wise.  If there were no considerations for taxes, then they would have sold the wine to a vinegar plant or distiller (assuming transport cost etc, would not have eaten up the profits).  I'm not at my proper desk right now, but I think that the taxes on the wine itself is around $1.10 per gallon (depending on class, it can be much more).  On cheap wine, a significant portion of the cost is packaging and taxes.
 
2013-07-16 08:46:16 PM  
I'm doing my part. I bought a couple of bottles of Jacob's Creek on Monday. Doesn't get much cheaper than that.
 
2013-07-16 08:52:50 PM  

plcow: If you are pouring it down the drain, it is NOT worth $32 mil.  If it was worth $32 mil then you would sell it for $32 mil.

See how that works?


For an USA tax deduction you can claim your cost.  So that's the cost to produce the wine and get it to market not some made up selling price.
 
2013-07-16 09:22:28 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Overpriced roo urine

/we got Two Buck Chuck


Penfolds is actually pretty good stuff. Bin 28 is my favorite!
 
2013-07-16 09:25:28 PM  
we got Two Buck Chuck

step up in class to "Blue Fin", only $3.49 at TJs and much better quality
 
2013-07-16 10:03:15 PM  
Meh.

Been going on for years...

Link

Also...
Link
 
2013-07-16 10:08:05 PM  
Hey wine experts, what's a good way to learn about wine without spending a lot of money?
 
2013-07-16 10:13:26 PM  

fastbow: Hey wine experts, what's a good way to learn about wine without spending a lot of money?


Wikipedia. You can know all there is to know without ever having to sample a drop.

/I sometimes consider it might be worth paying the $200 a glass to try a notable Grange Hermitage vintage.
 
2013-07-16 10:18:23 PM  

SomethingToDo: fastbow: Hey wine experts, what's a good way to learn about wine without spending a lot of money?

Wikipedia. You can know all there is to know without ever having to sample a drop.

/I sometimes consider it might be worth paying the $200 a glass to try a notable Grange Hermitage vintage.


Where do I start? Wikipedia's got one of the same problem as the liquor store: there's so damn much of it.
 
2013-07-16 10:19:35 PM  

Nuclear Monk: Sooo...would you say you have a drinking problem?


In the fact that I'm not drinking ENOUGH.
 
2013-07-16 10:22:06 PM  

fastbow: SomethingToDo: fastbow: Hey wine experts, what's a good way to learn about wine without spending a lot of money?

Wikipedia. You can know all there is to know without ever having to sample a drop.

/I sometimes consider it might be worth paying the $200 a glass to try a notable Grange Hermitage vintage.

Where do I start? Wikipedia's got one of the same problem as the liquor store: there's so damn much of it.


Buy one of Jancis Robinson's books.
Go to wine tastings at grocery stores, wine bars, and restaurants.
 
2013-07-16 10:26:08 PM  
Thanks FrancoFile. I'll hit up Amazon.

Hey, since you're an expert, any recommendations for Texas wines? I prefer to go local when I can. Kansas too. Born there and still have some hometown pride.
 
2013-07-16 11:34:31 PM  

fastbow: Hey wine experts, what's a good way to learn about wine without spending a lot of money?


Go to wineries and taste.  If its not a trendy area, it will likely be free or a very nominal charge.  Even in northern California, there are still plenty of wineries that for free,  And talk to the people who are pouring - they are usually more than happy to talk about wine as long as it isn't super busy.

Of course, this is a lot easier if you live on the west coast or the great lakes region, not so much if you're in Montana or something.
 
2013-07-16 11:36:16 PM  

OptionC: fastbow: Hey wine experts, what's a good way to learn about wine without spending a lot of money?

Go to wineries and taste.  If its not a trendy area, it will likely be free or a very nominal charge.  Even in northern California, there are still plenty of wineries that for free,  And talk to the people who are pouring - they are usually more than happy to talk about wine as long as it isn't super busy.

Of course, this is a lot easier if you live on the west coast or the great lakes region, not so much if you're in Montana or something.


Central Texas, so who knows...
 
2013-07-16 11:57:33 PM  
There are good european firms (family) that'll send a years product to become vinegar or fuel ethanol if the crop didn't produce a quality product.

If it won't go to primary market, recover what you can.
 
2013-07-17 12:05:41 AM  

Stone Meadow: FrancoFile: Satanic_Hamster: I_Am_Weasel: For example,Black Stump Bordeaux is rightly praised as a peppermint flavoured Burgundy, whilst a good Sydney Syrup can rank with any of the world's best sugary wines.Of the sparkling wines, the most famous is Perth Pink. This is a bottle with a message in, and the message is 'beware'. This is not a wine for drinking, this is a wine for laying down and avoiding.

If it's from Australia, it's not a Bordeaux.

My guest bedroom:
[i58.photobucket.com image 850x637]

One side of my cellar.  I have a max capacity of about 1200 bottles.

[farm4.staticflickr.com image 500x374]

Amateurs...my personal cellar at BevMo is always fully stocked.
[images.onset.freedom.com image 600x450]


A piffle compared to my stash:

bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com
 
2013-07-17 12:30:33 AM  

fastbow: Hey wine experts, what's a good way to learn about wine without spending a lot of money?


I'm more of a wine hobbyist, but the basics are in the wine tasting wheel (it's a round chart that breaks down the tastes and aromas for you). Then learning which wines should come from which regions. Your ultimate goal is to learn food pairings. Local liquor stores and wineries have tastings, I also found a community education course in my area that taught the above info. I don't think there's a way to learn wines without tasting. There's also a homebrew club in my area, but that's different than wine appreciation.

/food pairing also works with beer.
 
2013-07-17 02:34:32 AM  
I_Am_Weasel: ... Wogga Wogga, which has a bouquet like an aborigine's armpit.

Wagga Wagga.
 
2013-07-17 03:45:38 AM  

proteus_b: NkThrasher: ...When you can food the acidity of the thing being canned is part of what decides what needs to be done to make it safe for what period of time depending on how it's stored.

What's desireable? pH neutral?


the same concept also applies to wine...generally, more acidic wine (within reason) is less prone to the negative effects of aging. More acid takes longer to break down; eventually any wine will lose its all of its tannic acids, at which point it will have a flat feel on your palate. Alcohol content and sugar content can also factor into age-ability, though this interaction is much more complex due to the abundance of cheap sweet wines that skew any direct correlation. Good sweet wines (sauternes, ports, rieslings, etc) age most gracefully.
 
2013-07-17 04:39:59 AM  
Who let any of our precious alcohol leave our shores ? But I totally agree with pouring it down the drain instead of letting Yanks drink it.
 
2013-07-17 06:42:02 AM  

gfid: The least they could do is donate it to homeless shelters


Penfold's? That's just cruel.
 
2013-07-17 06:47:29 AM  

fastbow: OptionC: fastbow: Hey wine experts, what's a good way to learn about wine without spending a lot of money?

Go to wineries and taste.  If its not a trendy area, it will likely be free or a very nominal charge.  Even in northern California, there are still plenty of wineries that for free,  And talk to the people who are pouring - they are usually more than happy to talk about wine as long as it isn't super busy.

Of course, this is a lot easier if you live on the west coast or the great lakes region, not so much if you're in Montana or something.

Central Texas, so who knows...


One thing I learned from the French wine shop down the street is that you want the grapes to suffer (for lack of a better term). That's why some wine from non arid parts of eastern WA are crap.

So in central Texas you might get some good grapes with the withering sunlight and clay like soil. Except you don't get cold winters. Probably best to try a lot of different ones :)
 
2013-07-17 07:29:07 AM  
Probably the best Aussie wines I had were the ones from small vintages that were never going to be shipped out of the country owing to economics. (I was fortunate enough some years ago to spend some time down under and was introduced to a bunch of boutique wineries.) Many of those that make it here to the US just are not as appealing to me, partly because my tolerances have changed -- can't drink reds any more without a massive headache after -- but they also just don't taste as good as other wines I can get my hands on.

The eastern end of Long Island has a thriving local wine industry, and while they have a ways to go before they challenge California wines, they can be quite drinkable for not too much money. Just about every vineyard has a tasting room for you to try whatever you like. And combined with all the farm stands that pop up in the fall, a day trip on the weekend is a great way to unwind and pick up some good food and drink for home.
 
2013-07-17 08:01:12 AM  

fastbow: Thanks FrancoFile. I'll hit up Amazon.

Hey, since you're an expert, any recommendations for Texas wines? I prefer to go local when I can. Kansas too. Born there and still have some hometown pride.


Been a while since I was in TX, so no particular advice.

I actually had some nice non-vintage dry Riesling from Oklahoma a few years ago, Tres Sueños.
Gruet from Albuquerque is world-class stuff - sparkling wines and still Pinot Noir.

I'm sending you email from my wine consulting & writing account in the next hour w/ some additional info.
 
2013-07-17 08:02:33 AM  

fastbow: Hey wine experts, what's a good way to learn about wine without spending a lot of money?


I'm going to assume you're from the US.  Pick one region (Sonoma, Napa, Willamette Valley, Columbia Valley, etc).  Look up a map and get an idea of the lay of the land, ie where the wineries and vineyards are.  Then go to your local wine merchant and begin buying wines from that region, and that region only.  Stick to named varietals (Cabernet, Merlot, Zinfandel, Chardonnay, etc)... not blends.  Buy wine by the mixed case (you usually get a 10-15% discount).  Start drinking.  As you open and try bottles, use wikipedia to study up on the varietal and region.  Read the winery website descriptions of their bottles.  Google search, use cellartracker.com, etc to find other tasting notes and opinions.

It will seem tedious at first.  You'll want to try wine from all over.  Resist that urge at first until you have some building blocks and feel comfortable with the differences between varietals.  Then pick a second region and repeat.  Pretty soon (a year or so) you'll be able to feel pretty good in a wine shop or at a restaurant looking over a wine list.  You'll have a feel for what's out there, how they pair with food, and most importantly what YOU like.

Some things to understand (very basics)... different regions excel at different varietals.  For example, don't go hunting for Columbia Valley Pinot Noir or Zinfandel.  Don't expect many good cabs from Willamette Valley.  Each region has specific growing conditions that work best for different wines.

Sonoma, IMHO, is the best place to start.  Very diverse region, many sub regions (appellations) to immerse yourself into, and they can grow pretty much anything.  Prices are much better than Napa too, and readily available.

This won't be a cheap endeavor, but it doesn't have to break the bank.  A couple of bottles / week at $10-20/each is probably a good price point to start with.  The case discount is your friend!  If you have Costco they have good prices and good selections (no case discount at Costco, though).

If you have questions along the way, EIP.
 
2013-07-17 08:50:58 AM  

alywa: This won't be a cheap endeavor, but it doesn't have to break the bank.  A couple of bottles / week at $10-20/each is probably a good price point to start with.  The case discount is your friend!  If you have Costco they have good prices and good selections (no case discount at Costco, though).


my other half hates me.  She, and all her other hen-ny friends are all into wine and for the life of me, I cannot taste or appreciate the difference between areas. I get the basics down and generally prefer one variety (Cab, pinot, etc) with a certain meal but she'l hand me a glass to try and more often than not, take a sip and go 'Yep, tastes like wine'
 
2013-07-17 10:27:09 AM  

o5iiawah: my other half hates me.  She, and all her other hen-ny friends are all into wine and for the life of me, I cannot taste or appreciate the difference between areas. I get the basics down and generally prefer one variety (Cab, pinot, etc) with a certain meal but she'l hand me a glass to try and more often than not, take a sip and go 'Yep, tastes like wine'


Have you tried doing tastings of the same varietal from different regions.  Comparison is very nice when trying to figure out differences from one to the next.

I guess there are people out there for whom wine just isn't a 'thing', but I really can't imagine what that must be like.  Wine is just such a critical part of a meal to me.  My father, who really enjoys wine too, recently had to undergo a series of chemo and radiation which has left him with a much altered / damaged palate.  Wine (and many previously enjoyed food) tastes terrible to him now, which is really sad for both of us.
 
2013-07-17 10:51:42 AM  
Sure, those are nice enough stashes for the beginner. Check out my personal cellar if you want to get serious:

images4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-07-17 10:55:53 AM  
Roughly 1 million bottles at a cost of 32 million USD.  Means we're talking about $32 a bottle. This isn't cheap stuff

Unless this is cop math and they priced it based on a single glass in a restaurant.
 
2013-07-17 11:28:34 AM  

fastbow: Central Texas, so who knows...


Specs!

Generally, I buy both online and at Specs.  I generally will buy one or two bottles of something to try it.  If I really like it I'll get a full case.  Try to buy things with reviews/points/awards.  If it's from a winery that I have already tried and like I'm much more likely to give it a go.
 
2013-07-17 11:41:06 AM  

alywa: Have you tried doing tastings of the same varietal from different regions


They taste different but not to the point where any one would be memorable, or I could recall it at a later point.    Take Cabs for instance.  There's bold ones and there's mild ones.  There's fruity ones and more dry ones.  I can generally tell which are which I just dont prefer one or the other

i guess you could say i can taste the difference between a chicken cutlet and a porkchop but it doesn't matter because I prefer fish.

I do the same with the craft beer craze.  If presented with 100 choices, the ones I choose become less memorable and not enjoyable. i have a few standbys with wine, scotch and beer and rarely deviate.  I find it fascinating that someone can be a database of wine...
 
2013-07-17 11:57:32 AM  

o5iiawah: alywa: Have you tried doing tastings of the same varietal from different regions

They taste different but not to the point where any one would be memorable, or I could recall it at a later point.    Take Cabs for instance.  There's bold ones and there's mild ones.  There's fruity ones and more dry ones.  I can generally tell which are which I just dont prefer one or the other

i guess you could say i can taste the difference between a chicken cutlet and a porkchop but it doesn't matter because I prefer fish.

I do the same with the craft beer craze.  If presented with 100 choices, the ones I choose become less memorable and not enjoyable. i have a few standbys with wine, scotch and beer and rarely deviate.  I find it fascinating that someone can be a database of wine...


It's what you're interested in and what gives you pleasure.  What do you do a lot of?
Watch baseball? You know who the opposite field hitters are, and you can tell when the outfield adjusted properly.
Watch movies?  You know the name of that character actor that's in all those buddy comedies.
Listen to music?  You can tell the difference between songs recorded live during the 2008 tour vs the 2011 tour.
 
2013-07-17 12:59:11 PM  

o5iiawah: I find it fascinating that someone can be a database of wine...


My son has perfect pitch... I can't carry a note in a bucket nor tell a B from a C.  Probably just something some of us are born with, enjoy, and refine.  Bottom line, drink what you like and don't sweat it otherwise.
 
2013-07-17 06:32:58 PM  
And now's the time to point out that almost all of it is American wine from American grapes.
 
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