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(Yahoo)   Protesters loot Wal-Mart and liquor stores because that's what Trayvon would have wanted   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 323
    More: Dumbass, Wal-Mart, Los Angeles, Los Angeles Street, on-ramps, liquor stores, objections, Mayor Eric Garcetti  
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8243 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jul 2013 at 10:09 AM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-17 01:06:40 AM
tenpoundsofcheese:

Did Obama think that either of those victims could have been just like the son he never had?


I don't know. Did a reporter ask him for his opinion about those cases like they did about the Zimmerman / Martin case?
 
2013-07-17 01:16:01 AM

I Browse: tenpoundsofcheese:

Did Obama think that either of those victims could have been just like the son he never had?


I don't know. Did a reporter ask him for his opinion about those cases like they did about the Zimmerman / Martin case?


I don't know, do you?
Did anyone send an email or letter to Obama about this?  Probably since these cases happened after the Martin death.
 
2013-07-17 01:20:40 AM

I Browse: But what it really boils down to is the initial call to the police, and why Zimmerman made it.


Meh.
He made a call because he saw what he thought was suspicious behavior.
You, nor anyone else, know whether or not Martin was exhibiting suspicious behavior.
He had a good track record of calls to 911 and he called it correctly about Martin's drug use.
And before you try the race card, he didn't even sound positive that Martin was black based on his answer to 911 when they asked him about race.
 
2013-07-17 01:22:34 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: I Browse: tenpoundsofcheese:

Did Obama think that either of those victims could have been just like the son he never had?


I don't know. Did a reporter ask him for his opinion about those cases like they did about the Zimmerman / Martin case?


I don't know, do you?
Did anyone send an email or letter to Obama about this?  Probably since these cases happened after the Martin death.



Nope, I don't. Btw...I get that you were either offended or annoyed by Obama's "If I had a son" comment. And I've had others here explain to me in great detail why they think he was completely out of line to say that, so you don't need to elaborate.

I didn't have a problem with his comment then and still don't now, but we can respectfully agree to disagree about it (if that's cool with you).
 
2013-07-17 01:28:03 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: I Browse: But what it really boils down to is the initial call to the police, and why Zimmerman made it.

Meh.
He made a call because he saw what he thought was suspicious behavior.
You, nor anyone else, know whether or not Martin was exhibiting suspicious behavior.
He had a good track record of calls to 911 and he called it correctly about Martin's drug use.
And before you try the race card, he didn't even sound positive that Martin was black based on his answer to 911 when they asked him about race.



Dammit...and I was just reaching for one in my wallet. Maybe next time.
 
2013-07-17 01:53:22 AM

I Browse: It was the lack of any formal charges that made this into a newsworthy story.


Newsworthy?  Gained a bit of notice maybe.  It's pretty common practice, when the evidence and story and eyewitnesses line up so well.

Shouldn't have surprised anyone, the concept is featured pretty heavily in all gazilion cop shows that are all the rage. They can investigate, but really can't arrest until they have something that will stick, and that WAS done in this case.

But the small amount of people who did notice spread it improperly, that's how it got to the mega newsworthy(high ratings). Race was injected by people like Crump and liberal media trying to create a boogey man.

I Browse: We can imagine ourselves being in Martin's place more than we can in Zimmerman's.


Only for people who, for whatever reason(ignorance, gullibility, willful ignorance), didn't see the evidence and didn't know about the violence before the shooting.(or people that are actually violent, obviously).

It's still conveniently left out of a LOT of news coverage.  "He killed a kid with candy and got away with it!1!!11"

More of the same BS that is what gained the case national news to begin with, excepting the verdict of course.  A sensationalized story based on only half the evidence and a lot of imagination and mincing of words.

I Browse: you still won't cure what is at the root of profiling, and that's fear and distrust.


Nothing wrong with profiling in and of itself.  Racial profiling, yeah, that's obviously wrong, but we can't even prove that's the case here.

Recognizing suspicious behavior patterns(or profiling) is a legitimate component for any given position involving security. Cops to airports to hospitals to neighborhood watch.  People who are shifty, nervous, furtive, acting strange in whatever manner, these are all tip-offs that can warrant an individual to be more alert.  Evolution has primed us to notice what's out of place, and intelligence has developed trends as to how specific types of criminals display before they commit.

Granted, our TSA does it poorly, our cops worse, but Isreal, IIRC, has made an art of it.  A show of force and a keen eye for warning signs.
 
2013-07-17 01:58:16 AM

I Browse: I didn't have a problem with his comment then


Here's the reason people have a problem with it, and I needn't even go into great detail.  Obama is admitting his son would be violent.(or his own ignorance of the details as I noted above about how people always leave that out).
 
2013-07-17 02:14:46 AM

Uranus Is Huge!: It's almost as shocking as the number of farkers that I color-coded as 'Racist' showing up in this thread to be racist.

Did you color-code them "black" or "white?"  Racists wanna know!

 
2013-07-17 02:23:41 AM

I Browse: Frederick: Maybe if the outrage over a black youth being killed wasnt so selective I'd be more supportive.  It seems clear to me the elevation of this incidence is due to the killer being of a different race and not about justice.


Here are examples of two other cases of black unarmed teens being killed by someone of a different race, and neither has gotten the media attention that this one did:

Michael David Dunn shot a 17 year old black kid over loud music

John Henry Spooner shot a 13 year old black kid because he claimed the kid stole guns from him

Why do you suppose those cases have gotten so little national attention, while this one has gotten so much? What do you think the major difference is?


Hey, Race-Bait Inc. has a LOT of investment in TMTM. They can't afford to detract attention from the primary shiny trinket, - it would only create confusion and befuddlement.

Do you know why Zebras have stripes?

In this modern world we are UTTERLY BOMBARDED with stories, issues, celebrities, tragedies, drama and farking SURVIVAL. Do you realize how much work it takes to build a non-story like GS vs TM into a national issue?  Let alone create enough OUTRAGE to  drag layabouts away from their La-Z-Boys to brave the heat and howl in chorus.

No, trumpeting these other stories would only create chaos, tail chasing, and eventually, depressed apathy. Who is going to be protesting what? and when? and where?

As my old friend Grover once said: "to find the IQ of a mob, you must first determine the IQ of the stupidest person in the mob, and then divide that number by the total population of the mob".

Or as advertising experts say: "People are stupid. Keep it simple!"


Understand?
 
2013-07-17 02:45:48 AM

I Browse: The whole "I Am Trayvon Martin" rallying cry is mostly about profiling, imho. In other words "This time it was Trayvon, next time it could be you, your son, brother, husband, cousin, etc." And that's why I think people (mostly black people) are having such a hard time with this. We can imagine ourselves being in Martin's place more than we can in Zimmerman's.

For what it's worth (and again, this is a black person saying this)...I don't think any of these protests are going to amount to much or change anything. Because even if you repeal Stand Your Ground laws (won't happen) or restrict gun ownership (keep dreaming)...you still won't cure what is at the root of profiling, and that's fear and distrust.


You've been rising in my favorites tab for the past two days. If you keep posting such well reasoned, level headed, and intelligent responses, I'm going to have to create a whole new category just for you.

I think you speak truthfully about why this is such a hard issue for black americans. If I may presume to speak on the general views of white americans for a moment.... (pardon the essay response).

The claim that Zimmerman racially profiled Martin really sticks in the caw of white people. Other than the basic lack of knowledge about the facts of the case itself, I think this - coupled with the claim that Zimmerman was a racist - is the major point of contention that white people are having with the whole #JusticeforTrayvon movement, myself included.

The public reaction to this case has largely been an exercise in disbelief and frustration on the parts of whites, at least those that I have talked to about the case. Southern white people - especially those of a more moderate or liberal stripe - take claims of racism seriously, and as a consequence they will actually take the time to judge whether or not a person's history supplies merit to those claims before weighing in on the issue. Most of the white people I have talked to about the case were initially just as outraged as everyone else was when Zimmerman was (falsely) portrayed as a racist in the media - how dare this man hunt down and kill this child because of his prejudice, etc. They wanted him brought to justice just as bad as the people protesting in Sanford.

But most of the whites I have talked to that are even the least bit knowledgeable about the case also know by now about Zimmerman's history: taking a black girl to prom, the crusade for the black homeless man, the mentoring of black kids. Many of them have listened to the case with a specific ear towards racism on Zimmerman's part, and have not found the least shred of evidence that he is a racist. Many of them bring up, as tenpoundsofcheese did, that Zimmerman was actually unsure of Martin's race when Zimmerman first saw Martin. They are also acutely aware that even if Martin's race mattered to Zimmmerman, Zimmerman actually had a factual basis for being concerned: the rash of burglaries and the home invasion in the neighborhood, the majority (if not all of them) committed by black teenagers, some of whom were still at large at the time of the incident.

So when I say this case has been an exercise frustration for whites - my self included - I mean that literally. The people I have talked to have literally thrown their hands up in the air and said "what in the hell do people want from us" because they see the claims of Zimmerman racially profiling Martin as vastly unfair to both Zimmerman and themselves. Adding in the factor that this case has become about white/black relations in the media circus, but Zimmerman is a hispanic, only exacerbates the overall levels of disbelief and frustration.

So when the #JusticeforTrayvon crowd screams bloody murder about Zimmerman racially profiling Martin, the whites I know aren't hearing those (legitimate) wider concerns about racial profiling, because none of the whites that I know think racial profiling or racism was ever a factor in this case.

They are bewildered that Zimmerman's past actions towards helping the black community count for exactly nothing in the eyes of the mob screaming for Zimmerman's head. They also express horror that a man who was a poster boy for racial tolerance is being vilified as a racist, and they see that happening because Zimmerman's skin is lighter than Martin's. They see the cries of racism as evidence that no matter how hard you try, no matter how many good things you do, you will still be branded as a racist because of the color of your skin; but if your skin is dark enough you can call another human being racist, derogatory names and be excused for it because that is part of your "culture". They also express vast frustration and anger at the fact that even if black teenagers are responsible for crime in your neighborhood, calling the police because you see a black teenager acting suspicious is still seen as a racist thing to do. The express rage at the fact that no matter how good of a person you are, if you legally defend yourself against an assault against a black person, its judged as an act motivated by racism. And they are outright insane over continuing demands for Federal prosecution for a civil rights violation of a man already judged not-guilty in a jury trial, and who has never once been shown to have a racist bone in his body.

I say "they say" or "they see," but honestly I see and share many of these frustrations. Continuing the marches and calls for prosecution after Zimmerman was acquitted has not thus far been a good thing for racial relations in America, IMO, and improves nothing. Rather than curing the fear and suspicious that you spoke of, it is only creating new divisions and pushing the undecideds to one extreme of the spectrum.
 
2013-07-17 02:47:51 AM
I Browse: you still won't cure what is at the root of profiling, and that's fear and distrust.


omeganuepsilon: Nothing wrong with profiling in and of itself. Racial profiling, yeah, that's obviously wrong, but we can't even prove that's the case here.

Recognizing suspicious behavior patterns(or profiling) is a legitimate component for any given position involving security. Cops to airports to hospitals to neighborhood watch. People who are shifty, nervous, furtive, acting strange in whatever manner, these are all tip-offs that can warrant an individual to be more alert. Evolution has primed us to notice what's out of place, and intelligence has developed trends as to how specific types of criminals display before they commit.

Granted, our TSA does it poorly, our cops worse, but Isreal, IIRC, has made an art of it. A show of force and a keen eye for warning signs.



Bullshiat.

The Israelis don't "profile", they merely have a nationwide policy of identifying and singling-out persons who are non-Israeli and non-Jewish, and they then further scrutinize by race, national origin, religion, gender, age, political affiliation, dress, and behavior, and then discriminate against those with a "high score".

Justice, equality, fraternity, diversity. That's their motto.

We Americans could learn a thing or two from the Israelis.
 
2013-07-17 03:25:43 AM

I Browse: For what it's worth (and again, this is a black person saying this)...I don't think any of these protests are going to amount to much or change anything. Because even if you repeal Stand Your Ground laws (won't happen) or restrict gun ownership (keep dreaming)...you still won't cure what is at the root of profiling, and that's fear and distrust.


...btw

I've had you favorited for quite awhile.  I appreciate your opinion and value your perspective.  It's obvious you try to be reasonable and sincere.  In an anonymous online forum where decorum is voluntary I consider your contribution highly respectable.
 
2013-07-17 03:40:37 AM
Elegy:

You've been rising in my favorites tab for the past two days. If you keep posting such well reasoned, level headed, and intelligent responses, I'm going to have to create a whole new category just for you.

I think you speak truthfully about why this is such a hard issue for black americans. If I may presume to speak on the general views of white americans for a moment.... (pardon the essay response).

The claim that Zimmerman racially profiled Martin really sticks in the caw of white people. Other than the basic lack of knowledge about the facts of the case itself, I think this - coupled with the claim that Zimmerman was a racist - is the major point of contention that white people are having with the whole #JusticeforTrayvon movement, myself included.

The public reaction to this case has largely been an exercise in disbelief and frustration on the parts of whites, at least those that I have talked to about the case. Southern white people - especially those of a more moderate or liberal stripe - take claims of racism seriously, and as a consequence they will actually take the time to judge whether or not a person's history supplies merit to those claims before weighing in on the issue. Most of the white people I have talked to about the case were initially ...



Elegy...I appreciate the nice words, and the thought and reason you put into your post. I hear your frustration and I do see your points. I agree that it's unfair to paint Zimmerman as a racist. It's not a term I throw around loosely because I adhere to the real meaning of the word. What I do believe is that Zimmerman has some prejudices (as most of us do). That doesn't make him evil, it makes him human. We all have a tendency to prejudge.

And I get that there were burglaries in his neighborhood committed by young black males (which would explain his suspicion upon seeing Martin). Still...those other burglars weren't Trayvon Martin, and that's what often sucks about profiling. The actions of those who look like you are held against you, whether you did anything to warrant it or not. It's hard to explain how much that can grate on you unless you've experienced it. And when it happens to you over and over again...sometimes it only takes a tiny spark to ignite a fire (i.e. "What are you doing here? Where are you going?")

I obviously have no idea what Zimmerman and Martin said to each other or what was going through their minds. None of us do. And I really have no interest in arguing the details of the case. It's been done ad nauseum. At this point, I'm only interested in the takeaway from this incident and how people will act (and react) going forward. My hope is that cooler heads will prevail the next time two people find themselves in a similar situation...but I have my doubts.
 
2013-07-17 03:45:26 AM
Frederick:

...btw

I've had you favorited for quite awhile.  I appreciate your opinion and value your perspective.  It's obvious you try to be reasonable and sincere.  In an anonymous online forum where decorum is voluntary I consider your contribution highly respectable.



Thanks, and right back at you.
 
2013-07-17 08:33:05 AM
DROx

Cool story bro!
 
2013-07-17 09:14:39 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: I Browse: But what it really boils down to is the initial call to the police, and why Zimmerman made it.

Meh.
He made a call because he saw what he thought was suspicious behavior.
You, nor anyone else, know whether or not Martin was exhibiting suspicious behavior.
He had a good track record of calls to 911 and he called it correctly about Martin's drug use.
And before you try the race card, he didn't even sound positive that Martin was black based on his answer to 911 when they asked him about race.


Glad to see you don't know wtf you're talking about...as usual.
 
2013-07-17 09:36:19 AM
This wouldn't have happened had NBC not edited the 911 calls.
 
2013-07-17 10:05:17 AM

Amos Quito: The Israelis don't "profile", they merely have a nationwide policy


I was talking about airport security.
 
2013-07-17 11:19:59 AM

Owangotang: All I heard when the Tea Party thing happened was "You cannot judge the whole movement on the oh-so tiny few who bring racist signs to a protest!" Surely the same courtesy and understanding that these rioters do not represent the majority of folks upset over the Zimmerman verdict will be extended, right?

Right?


When the Tea Partiers start breaking windows, beating up people, burning cars, and ransacking Walmart's get back with me, will ya?
 
2013-07-17 11:50:53 AM
To I Browse and Elegy:

Thank you for the calm and frank discussion. It is nice to follow the reasonable exchange of thoughts and opinions, which is not an everyday event on any online forum.

Thank you for stating many of the things that others (including myself) have running through their heads, even though not all of us are able to take the time to share them here.

Carry on...
 
2013-07-17 12:25:42 PM
Nothing wrong with profiling in and of itself.  Racial profiling, yeah, that's obviously wrong, but we can't even prove that's the case here.

That's like saying free speech is great, except for bad speech some people don't like.
 
2013-07-17 01:04:21 PM

doubled99: Nothing wrong with profiling in and of itself.  Racial profiling, yeah, that's obviously wrong, but we can't even prove that's the case here.

That's like saying free speech is great, except for bad speech some people don't like.


You sound under educated. What you are doing is equivocating one with the other, without regard to the fact that they have different meanings. Racial profiling is not the same as the kind of profiling security organizations are supposed to use.  It is based on skin color and nothing else.  The other forms of profiling take into consideration behavior, regardless of skin color.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offender_profiling
 
2013-07-17 03:29:29 PM

omeganuepsilon: Amos Quito: The Israelis don't "profile", they merely have a nationwide policy

I was talking about airport security.



And I was being sarcastic.

Israel is about the most racist, hypocritical, profiling nation on the planet - and their shameless bigotry is not restricted to airports, but pervades virtually every aspect of life.

See "JEWS ONLY ROADS", bus lines, neighborhoods, etc.
 
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