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(KNBC 4 Los Angeles)   LAPD declares citywide tactical alert amid George Zimmerman protests. Link goes to live feed   (nbclosangeles.com) divider line 1083
    More: News, LAPD, Los Angeles, Crenshaw Boulevard  
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12968 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Jul 2013 at 12:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-16 12:20:43 PM

snochick: 1000


This tells me there are over 50 posts by people I have on ignore.
 
2013-07-16 12:21:32 PM
I've been lurking for a while now, but this is getting so stupid, I would like an answer on this:

On what planet does a fat, 5'7", unathletic, Peruvian start a physical altercation with a 6' black man in the dark? I am not saying GZ following him didn't make TM nervous and that he didn't deserve the first punch, there are factors we don't know, but give me a break. Gun or not, no way GZ swings first. You can debate as to whether or not TM should have, but that would like be a function of distance, manner, and the resulting conversation, which again, we don't know. I can't see GZ walking up and hitting a guy bigger than him. That doesn't happen in the real world. No 5'7" guy who cant fight is walking up to a 6'+ black man and popping him. Not happening.

I would bet my left nut that Precious is lying about the phone going dead. I think they need to pull that call. I will wager she heard more than she let on.

Finally, with the one drop rule, Zimm is black, but if you want to move the goalposts and say it is about appearance and your place in society, he is the most hispanic (and in this case I mean amer-indian/"Mexican") looking guy I have ever seen. He may have some white blood, but no more than Obama or TM. He isn't white. I managed to bait a few idiots the other day to attempt to resolve this, saw their response and just laughed. It was pathetic. Stop pounding the square peg to make it fit your round hole. It isn't working. The kid is dead, that is sad, and he brought it on himself. it sucks. Read the wikipedia article on this case. It is quite enlightening.
 
2013-07-16 12:41:36 PM
whistles and walks along lazily
 
2013-07-16 12:42:11 PM
Well, that was a lot of nothing last night. Most action was the fence banging around.

/mcthfg
 
2013-07-16 01:23:15 PM
With apologies to the Beatles:

I read the news today oh boy
About a black boy in eleventh grade
And though the news was rather sad
Well I just had to laugh
I saw the aftermath.

George blew his mind out on the sidewalk
He didn't notice the Skittles and tea
A crowd of police stood and stared
They'd seen his face before
Nobody was really sure
If he was white or Latino.

I saw a film today oh boy
The pundit Army had just gone to war
A crowd of people turned away
but I just had to look
Having read facebook.

I hate seeing this go on

Protests, it went to trial,
Dragged on for quite some while
Found a way to fark it up,
The defense went and claimed that it was fate.
Then the jury, thought 'bout that
They came back in two days flat
Found not guilty of a crime,
Then the jury spoke and some people began to scream

I read the news today oh boy
Four thousand protests across the land
And though the riots were rather small
Fox had to count them all
Now they know how many riots it takes to fill the news cycle.

I hate seeing this go on
 
2013-07-16 01:52:12 PM
 
2013-07-16 01:55:09 PM
This tells me there are over 50 posts by people I have on ignore.

sissy
 
2013-07-16 01:57:49 PM

ole prophet: vygramul:


Funny, I didn't see any of this BS:
Here -  http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/relatives-mourn-- y ear-old-boy-fatally-shot-in-st/article_5ad70475-19ec-5dc0-8a58-1ff9735 87299.html
Here -  http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/us/georgia-baby-killed
Here -  http://hamptonroads.com/2013/07/1yearold-7monthold-shot-while-yard-ha m pton
Here -  http://www.wistv.com/story/22787676/cpd-4-year-old-shot-at-colony-apa r tments

Heck I would wager that none of these make Fark. But it is okay, keep farking the GZ chicken.


*eyeroll*
 
2013-07-16 02:04:54 PM

doubled99: This tells me there are over 50 posts by people I have on ignore.

sissy


I never understood people who use ignore, never mind brag about how many people they have on ignore.  What's the point of using a forum like this if you're really just looking to have your views confirmed?  It's the debating equivalent of masturbation.
 
2013-07-16 02:05:33 PM

vygramul: ole prophet: vygramul:


Funny, I didn't see any of this BS:
Here -  http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/relatives-mourn-- y ear-old-boy-fatally-shot-in-st/article_5ad70475-19ec-5dc0-8a58-1ff9735 87299.html
Here -  http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/us/georgia-baby-killed
Here -  http://hamptonroads.com/2013/07/1yearold-7monthold-shot-while-yard-ha m pton
Here -  http://www.wistv.com/story/22787676/cpd-4-year-old-shot-at-colony-apa r tments

Heck I would wager that none of these make Fark. But it is okay, keep farking the GZ chicken.

*eyeroll*


You eye roll at kids being shot?
 
2013-07-16 02:08:01 PM

ole prophet: vygramul: ole prophet: vygramul:


Funny, I didn't see any of this BS:
Here -  http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/relatives-mourn-- y ear-old-boy-fatally-shot-in-st/article_5ad70475-19ec-5dc0-8a58-1ff9735 87299.html
Here -  http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/22/us/georgia-baby-killed
Here -  http://hamptonroads.com/2013/07/1yearold-7monthold-shot-while-yard-ha m pton
Here -  http://www.wistv.com/story/22787676/cpd-4-year-old-shot-at-colony-apa r tments

Heck I would wager that none of these make Fark. But it is okay, keep farking the GZ chicken.

*eyeroll*

You eye roll at kids being shot?


www.bitlogic.com
 
2013-07-16 02:10:06 PM
Gyrfalcon: There's nothing like random violence and pointless mayhem to show people you're being unjustly stereotyped as violent thugs.


^That is a $5.00 comment, right there.^
 
2013-07-16 02:28:23 PM

TheJoe03: tbeatty: We can't ask him because he's dead.

And because of that you are making of stories and theories about him being a DXM fiend, because apparently that's the only reason you'd got to the store when it's raining. You have no proof and you are relying on some story that the defense never even brought up and no legit source has confirmed. I'm done with you guys, I know you're stuck with you bias and agenda.


enry:

I haven't gotten a good answer on this. Zimmerman is getting the crap beat out of him but doesn't land a single punch but is able to reach behind his nack, unholster his penis compensator, and immediately plugs Martin. Doesn't wave it in his face or use it as a way of getting out of the situation, just *blam".

And yes, convenient we can't ask Martin. Very convenient indeed.


It was behind his back?  Why do you think that?  Zimmerman was on his back and said Martin was reaching for the gun in the holster (in the front) when he took it out and fired.  He had no opportunity to run away which is why "stand your ground" defense was never raised.  Straight up self defense as he was trapped on the ground in fear for his life.  The police and prosecutor would have caught this and brought it up at trial if it wasn't accessible to Martin.  Sorry your theory fails.
 
2013-07-16 02:34:13 PM

tbeatty: TheJoe03: tbeatty: We can't ask him because he's dead.

And because of that you are making of stories and theories about him being a DXM fiend, because apparently that's the only reason you'd got to the store when it's raining. You have no proof and you are relying on some story that the defense never even brought up and no legit source has confirmed. I'm done with you guys, I know you're stuck with you bias and agenda.

enry:

I haven't gotten a good answer on this. Zimmerman is getting the crap beat out of him but doesn't land a single punch but is able to reach behind his nack, unholster his penis compensator, and immediately plugs Martin. Doesn't wave it in his face or use it as a way of getting out of the situation, just *blam".

And yes, convenient we can't ask Martin. Very convenient indeed.

It was behind his back?  Why do you think that?  Zimmerman was on his back and said Martin was reaching for the gun in the holster (in the front) when he took it out and fired.  He had no opportunity to run away which is why "stand your ground" defense was never raised.  Straight up self defense as he was trapped on the ground in fear for his life.  The police and prosecutor would have caught this and brought it up at trial if it wasn't accessible to Martin.  Sorry your theory fails.


So had Zimmerman not had a gun with him, Martin wouldn't have been able to reach for a gun and create the requisite fear for his life Zimmerman used to justify killing Martin?

What a morally superior position Zimmerman has.
 
2013-07-16 02:36:51 PM

Zizzowop: tbeatty: thisisyourbrainonFark:
"Nothing good has come of this whole situation. Nothing."


Well, Trayvon's dead.  Can't overlook that.

/If you really think anything else you said resembles facts, you need to go look again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bF-Ax5E8EJc

That's pretty funny, that guy's not biased at all is he-'a possible' drug dealer because he was suspended for having a bag with nothing in it. If that makes you a drug dealer, then call me Scarface.


No, it helps explain the three guys he met at the store who bought blunts at the same time Trayvon was there and Trayvon messaging that he was bringplants up to his dad's house.  Just another explanation as to why he was walking a mile in the pouring rain to go to the store.  The fighting and the drugs were mostly ignored by the media as they focused on pictures of an 11 y/o, not a 5'11" 160lb street fighter with a history of drug use that causes paranoia.
 
2013-07-16 02:37:04 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: doubled99: This tells me there are over 50 posts by people I have on ignore.

sissy

I never understood people who use ignore, never mind brag about how many people they have on ignore.  What's the point of using a forum like this if you're really just looking to have your views confirmed?  It's the debating equivalent of masturbation.


When I see a person who consistently adds nothing to conversations and trolls I favorite them with "adds nothing to conversations" If in 6 months they haven't changed I add them to ignore.

Nothing of value is lost.
 
2013-07-16 02:40:10 PM

vygramul: tbeatty: TheJoe03: tbeatty: We can't ask him because he's dead.

And because of that you are making of stories and theories about him being a DXM fiend, because apparently that's the only reason you'd got to the store when it's raining. You have no proof and you are relying on some story that the defense never even brought up and no legit source has confirmed. I'm done with you guys, I know you're stuck with you bias and agenda.

enry:

I haven't gotten a good answer on this. Zimmerman is getting the crap beat out of him but doesn't land a single punch but is able to reach behind his nack, unholster his penis compensator, and immediately plugs Martin. Doesn't wave it in his face or use it as a way of getting out of the situation, just *blam".

And yes, convenient we can't ask Martin. Very convenient indeed.

It was behind his back?  Why do you think that?  Zimmerman was on his back and said Martin was reaching for the gun in the holster (in the front) when he took it out and fired.  He had no opportunity to run away which is why "stand your ground" defense was never raised.  Straight up self defense as he was trapped on the ground in fear for his life.  The police and prosecutor would have caught this and brought it up at trial if it wasn't accessible to Martin.  Sorry your theory fails.

So had Zimmerman not had a gun with him, Martin wouldn't have been able to reach for a gun and create the requisite fear for his life Zimmerman used to justify killing Martin?

What a morally superior position Zimmerman has.


No; by striking Mr. Zimmerman repeatedly, Mr. Martin established legal justification for use of deadly force.
 
2013-07-16 02:56:24 PM

tbeatty: Zizzowop: tbeatty: thisisyourbrainonFark:
"Nothing good has come of this whole situation. Nothing."


Well, Trayvon's dead.  Can't overlook that.

/If you really think anything else you said resembles facts, you need to go look again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bF-Ax5E8EJc

That's pretty funny, that guy's not biased at all is he-'a possible' drug dealer because he was suspended for having a bag with nothing in it. If that makes you a drug dealer, then call me Scarface.

No, it helps explain the three guys he met at the store who bought blunts at the same time Trayvon was there and Trayvon messaging that he was bringplants up to his dad's house.  Just another explanation as to why he was walking a mile in the pouring rain to go to the store.  The fighting and the drugs were mostly ignored by the media as they focused on pictures of an 11 y/o, not a 5'11" 160lb street fighter with a history of drug use that causes paranoia.


He just keeps getting younger and younger in those photos, and that walk will soon be two miles. No one buys blunts at 7-11, and none of that is still reason to shoot someone, if it is, you'll have to shoot just about every other guy that comes out of 7-11.
 
2013-07-16 03:00:28 PM

tbeatty: TheJoe03: tbeatty: We can't ask him because he's dead.

And because of that you are making of stories and theories about him being a DXM fiend, because apparently that's the only reason you'd got to the store when it's raining. You have no proof and you are relying on some story that the defense never even brought up and no legit source has confirmed. I'm done with you guys, I know you're stuck with you bias and agenda.

enry:

I haven't gotten a good answer on this. Zimmerman is getting the crap beat out of him but doesn't land a single punch but is able to reach behind his nack, unholster his penis compensator, and immediately plugs Martin. Doesn't wave it in his face or use it as a way of getting out of the situation, just *blam".

And yes, convenient we can't ask Martin. Very convenient indeed.

It was behind his back?  Why do you think that?  Zimmerman was on his back and said Martin was reaching for the gun in the holster (in the front) when he took it out and fired.  He had no opportunity to run away which is why "stand your ground" defense was never raised.  Straight up self defense as he was trapped on the ground in fear for his life.  The police and prosecutor would have caught this and brought it up at trial if it wasn't accessible to Martin.  Sorry your theory fails.


Zimmerman testified that the gun was behind his back.
 
2013-07-16 03:10:01 PM
Gee, white people in the internet missing the point. What a surprise.

It's not about what actually happened in this particular case. It's about the power dynamic. Unless someone wants to tell me that black people are now somehow on equal footing and the past ~400 years is just water under the bridge.
 
2013-07-16 03:15:23 PM

RanDomino: Gee, white people in the internet missing the point. What a surprise.

It's not about what actually happened in this particular case. It's about the power dynamic. Unless someone wants to tell me that black people are now somehow on equal footing and the past ~400 years is just water under the bridge.


Greed is too powerful to allow such considerations. No matter the solution, it'll cost rich white assholes money, and they've already shown with food stamp programs that they'd rather have to trod on homeless in the streets to spend their $10 tax refund at McDonald's than have no homeless.
 
2013-07-16 03:19:30 PM

Lem Motlow: eraser8: I_C_Weener: Defendant's multiple, and consistent statements.

Again, none of that is actual evidence of who assaulted whom.

Ok, how about the eye witnesses that saw TM on top of GZ pounding on him?


Now are getting somewhere! Who wanted to gay rape who Jenteal?
 
2013-07-16 03:21:06 PM

omeganuepsilon: Cobblestone Flag: equate Not Guilty with Completely Absolved from Wrongdoing in the Court of Public Opinion

And you people think Zimmerman played judge and jury....try looking in the mirror once in a while.


Overstepping my position a little bit there. I think both he and Martin acted in poor judgment, and it lead to one of them getting killed. It's possible to not see him as a monster, but still see him as someone who made some pretty poor decisions. You talk like I'm promoting a lynch mob, when I'm pretty much saying 'this isn't exactly a reason to celebrate.'

Zimmerman got off due to lack of sufficient evidence. That's certainly not guilty in the eyes of the law, and if we knew the entire scene there is a strong chance Zimmerman's actions were -ultimately- justified. I'm saying Not Guilty doesn't mean he's a saint, and many people are painting him that way, which I find strange. I also think it's silly to paint Trayvon as an innocent young kid, which I'm sure you more than readily agree with.

Essentially, I think both ends of the spectrum are pretty ridiculous, Team Zimmerman and Team Trayvon, but there are a lot of interesting legal and social ramifications resulting from this case, which is why I find it interesting.
 
2013-07-16 03:26:51 PM

Cobblestone Flag: omeganuepsilon: Cobblestone Flag: equate Not Guilty with Completely Absolved from Wrongdoing in the Court of Public Opinion

And you people think Zimmerman played judge and jury....try looking in the mirror once in a while.

Overstepping my position a little bit there. I think both he and Martin acted in poor judgment, and it lead to one of them getting killed. It's possible to not see him as a monster, but still see him as someone who made some pretty poor decisions. You talk like I'm promoting a lynch mob, when I'm pretty much saying 'this isn't exactly a reason to celebrate.'

Zimmerman got off due to lack of sufficient evidence. That's certainly not guilty in the eyes of the law, and if we knew the entire scene there is a strong chance Zimmerman's actions were -ultimately- justified. I'm saying Not Guilty doesn't mean he's a saint, and many people are painting him that way, which I find strange. I also think it's silly to paint Trayvon as an innocent young kid, which I'm sure you more than readily agree with.

Essentially, I think both ends of the spectrum are pretty ridiculous, Team Zimmerman and Team Trayvon, but there are a lot of interesting legal and social ramifications resulting from this case, which is why I find it interesting.


I believe that a statement that I posted in a different discussion
 
2013-07-16 03:27:27 PM
...is relevant here.

/Evidently my computer requires maintenance.
 
2013-07-16 03:27:59 PM
No. I am going to throw myself to the wolves here and not be a b*tch and say I don't think he acted in poor judgement by following. He followed a suspicious person, and he did what he should have done IMO. People (not saying TM was one of them) were robbing his neighborhood, and getting away. As long as he kept a distance and didn't get all up in his grillspace, he did what I would have done. Hindsight is 20/20, and without that benefit there is no way. Someone posted about this earlier in the thread, as to how this situation is actually taken into account under the law. It was probably the most helpful and brilliant posts I have seen on FARK, like...ever. Situations like this almost never result in a FATALITY!111!!! It happens, so I am sure some idiot will post a few examples, but typically following someone at a safe distance will not cause this. That said, we don't know that distance or any of the other circumstances surrounding the "following" thus, the real problem with the case.
 
2013-07-16 03:41:47 PM

enry: tbeatty: TheJoe03: tbeatty: We can't ask him because he's dead.

And because of that you are making of stories and theories about him being a DXM fiend, because apparently that's the only reason you'd got to the store when it's raining. You have no proof and you are relying on some story that the defense never even brought up and no legit source has confirmed. I'm done with you guys, I know you're stuck with you bias and agenda.

enry:

I haven't gotten a good answer on this. Zimmerman is getting the crap beat out of him but doesn't land a single punch but is able to reach behind his nack, unholster his penis compensator, and immediately plugs Martin. Doesn't wave it in his face or use it as a way of getting out of the situation, just *blam".

And yes, convenient we can't ask Martin. Very convenient indeed.

It was behind his back?  Why do you think that?  Zimmerman was on his back and said Martin was reaching for the gun in the holster (in the front) when he took it out and fired.  He had no opportunity to run away which is why "stand your ground" defense was never raised.  Straight up self defense as he was trapped on the ground in fear for his life.  The police and prosecutor would have caught this and brought it up at trial if it wasn't accessible to Martin.  Sorry your theory fails.

Zimmerman testified that the gun was behind his back.


Zimmerman testified?
 
2013-07-16 03:45:14 PM

Wizzywig: No. I am going to throw myself to the wolves here and not be a b*tch and say I don't think he acted in poor judgement by following. He followed a suspicious person, and he did what he should have done IMO. People (not saying TM was one of them) were robbing his neighborhood, and getting away. As long as he kept a distance and didn't get all up in his grillspace, he did what I would have done. Hindsight is 20/20, and without that benefit there is no way. Someone posted about this earlier in the thread, as to how this situation is actually taken into account under the law. It was probably the most helpful and brilliant posts I have seen on FARK, like...ever. Situations like this almost never result in a FATALITY!111!!! It happens, so I am sure some idiot will post a few examples, but typically following someone at a safe distance will not cause this. That said, we don't know that distance or any of the other circumstances surrounding the "following" thus, the real problem with the case.


That's a great point, actually. Thanks!
 
2013-07-16 04:03:39 PM

Bonanza Jellybean: Well now we have fistfights and a driver who got fed up and almost ran over a couple of people.


That would be me, if I were silly enough to move to La La Land.

/Waddle faster and get the fark out of the road!
 
2013-07-16 04:06:20 PM

vygramul: hasty ambush: [25.media.tumblr.com image 469x539]
Look like Obama's sons?

Let the record show that Hasty Ambush is defending a crip.


There are white crips? Wow.
/actually learned something in this thread!
 
2013-07-16 04:06:54 PM
vygramul What a morally superior position Zimmerman has.

I think most of the Peanut Gallery would prefer him dead by his own weapon like these "Real Cops" who had the drop on them...
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/11/polygraph_prosec ut ors_may_requ.html
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/16/local/la-me-riverside-office r- 20101116
 
2013-07-16 04:12:18 PM

aerojockey: Upset white people blocking traffic (i.e., Occupy) = protest
Upset black people blocking traffic, breaking windows, lighting things on fire, and assaulting other black people waiting for the bus = riot

Thanks for the clarification, media!


FTFY
 
2013-07-16 04:14:39 PM
Gee, white people in the internet missing the point. What a surprise.

It's not about what actually happened in this particular case. It's about the power dynamic. Unless someone wants to tell me that black people are now somehow on equal footing and the past ~400 years is just water under the bridg
e.


I thought race profiling was a bad thing.
 
2013-07-16 04:15:11 PM

MagSeven: vygramul: hasty ambush: [25.media.tumblr.com image 469x539]
Look like Obama's sons?

Let the record show that Hasty Ambush is defending a crip.

There are white crips? Wow.
/actually learned something in this thread!


i179.photobucket.com
 
2013-07-16 04:16:40 PM

Wizzywig: No. I am going to throw myself to the wolves here and not be a b*tch and say I don't think he acted in poor judgement by following. He followed a suspicious person, and he did what he should have done IMO. People (not saying TM was one of them) were robbing his neighborhood, and getting away. As long as he kept a distance and didn't get all up in his grillspace, he did what I would have done. Hindsight is 20/20, and without that benefit there is no way. Someone posted about this earlier in the thread, as to how this situation is actually taken into account under the law. It was probably the most helpful and brilliant posts I have seen on FARK, like...ever. Situations like this almost never result in a FATALITY!111!!! It happens, so I am sure some idiot will post a few examples, but typically following someone at a safe distance will not cause this. That said, we don't know that distance or any of the other circumstances surrounding the "following" thus, the real problem with the case.


You are correct.  If Trayvon had stayed away from Zimmerman instead of getting up in is grill there would have been no fatality.  If he was afraid, a call to dad to come get him would have helped too.
 
2013-07-16 04:26:50 PM

indarwinsshadow: TheJoe03: darwin

I'd argue with you, but it's hard to argue with someone with the IQ of a potato.


Uh, what exactly are you referencing and talking about? You realize a post like yours makes you the moron, right?
 
2013-07-16 04:28:58 PM
Oh wait, you were the racist assclown that wanted to act like these minor skirmishes should reflect on all black people and it somehow took away all their "gains". Funny how when white people do bad things it doesn't reflect on their whole race.
 
2013-07-16 04:33:33 PM

TheJoe03: Oh wait, you were the racist assclown that wanted to act like these minor skirmishes should reflect on all black people and it somehow took away all their "gains". Funny how when white people do bad things it doesn't reflect on their whole race.


I remember the white riots after the OJ Simpson verdict too..
 
2013-07-16 04:42:56 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: I remember the white riots after the OJ Simpson verdict too..


Keep it up there Bubba, I bet your so proud of that asinine comment.
 
2013-07-16 04:52:05 PM
Cobblestone, I want to hate you, but I cant because even though you dont agree with someone, you are still cordial and appreciate the efforts of the opposition. B*stard.
 
2013-07-16 05:03:01 PM

Cobblestone Flag: omeganuepsilon: Cobblestone Flag: equate Not Guilty with Completely Absolved from Wrongdoing in the Court of Public Opinion

And you people think Zimmerman played judge and jury....try looking in the mirror once in a while.

Overstepping my position a little bit there.


Um, it's a direct quote.

Cobblestone Flag: I'm saying Not Guilty doesn't mean he's a saint, and many people are painting him that way, which I find strange.


What Zimm did was ruled as just by a court of law.  No one is placing a halo over his head.  Attempting to pursue the matter any further, even rioting and protesting against him, is out of line.  This whole "Court of Public Opinion" bit is superfluous as we have a court of law to mete out punishment. What seeking further action, in effect, does is persecute people for other motivations, most if not all of which are based on lies and misinformation, similar to many a zany religion or other more unquantified moral movement(or rather, a mixture of several movements, ie reverse racism/anti-gun nuts/people who need to find a villain for every tragedy[ie boobquake nutjobs], etc).

Telling people they're off their rocker for seeking "social justice" or people who think/imply he deserves some kind of further punishment does not equate to painting him as a saint.
 
2013-07-16 05:11:38 PM

omeganuepsilon: Cobblestone Flag: omeganuepsilon: Cobblestone Flag: equate Not Guilty with Completely Absolved from Wrongdoing in the Court of Public Opinion

And you people think Zimmerman played judge and jury....try looking in the mirror once in a while.

Overstepping my position a little bit there.

Um, it's a direct quote.

Cobblestone Flag: I'm saying Not Guilty doesn't mean he's a saint, and many people are painting him that way, which I find strange.

What Zimm did was ruled as just by a court of law.  No one is placing a halo over his head.  Attempting to pursue the matter any further, even rioting and protesting against him, is out of line.  This whole "Court of Public Opinion" bit is superfluous as we have a court of law to mete out punishment. What seeking further action, in effect, does is persecute people for other motivations, most if not all of which are based on lies and misinformation, similar to many a zany religion or other more unquantified moral movement(or rather, a mixture of several movements, ie reverse racism/anti-gun nuts/people who need to find a villain for every tragedy[ie boobquake nutjobs], etc).

Telling people they're off their rocker for seeking "social justice" or people who think/imply he deserves some kind of further punishment does not equate to painting him as a saint.


www.bitlogic.com
Criminal procedings only determine if the government has proved what he did was a crime, not that he was, in fact, just.
 
2013-07-16 05:20:00 PM

omeganuepsilon: Cobblestone Flag: omeganuepsilon: Cobblestone Flag: equate Not Guilty with Completely Absolved from Wrongdoing in the Court of Public Opinion

And you people think Zimmerman played judge and jury....try looking in the mirror once in a while.

Overstepping my position a little bit there.

Um, it's a direct quote.

Cobblestone Flag: I'm saying Not Guilty doesn't mean he's a saint, and many people are painting him that way, which I find strange.

What Zimm did was ruled as just by a court of law.  No one is placing a halo over his head.  Attempting to pursue the matter any further, even rioting and protesting against him, is out of line.  This whole "Court of Public Opinion" bit is superfluous as we have a court of law to mete out punishment. What seeking further action, in effect, does is persecute people for other motivations, most if not all of which are based on lies and misinformation, similar to many a zany religion or other more unquantified moral movement(or rather, a mixture of several movements, ie reverse racism/anti-gun nuts/people who need to find a villain for every tragedy[ie boobquake nutjobs], etc).

Telling people they're off their rocker for seeking "social justice" or people who think/imply he deserves some kind of further punishment does not equate to painting him as a saint.


I never said my position would be the same as that of Public Opinion. And just because I said they didn't equal doesn't mean that I necessarily agree with either perspective. He can still be any degree of in the wrong and still be not guilty (although my position has evolved more on the side of Zimmerman as a result of these two exchanges) When I say Court of Public Opinion, I simply mean that people will come to their own conclusions based on evidence as presented that, although had no impact on the verdict, still lead certain people to draw certain opinions. I don't mean to give them as much weight as I did with the term I used.

I agree with both of your points in the final paragraph.
 
2013-07-16 05:51:01 PM

vygramul: Criminal procedings only determine if the government has proved what he did was a crime, not that he was, in fact, just.

In that case?     What is "just"

Cobblestone Flag: He can still be any degree of in the wrong


What is "wrong"?

The point being(and you may already get this Cobb, but you both said something so...):

The justice system is all we have.  We cannot even attempt to perform some sort of moral judgement and persecution on any scale.  If you don't like him, that's fine, that's your right.  But taking it further than that is no different than wanting to brand him or make him wear a scarlet "M".  Taking it further by telling or seeking to convince others is a moral crusade.

Kinda the reason we have separation of church and state and the only standard being the rule of law(flawed and injected with morality as it is in other circumstances(ie abortion/gay marriage/etc), it's certainly not in this case[clearly hinging on self defense]).

The biggest reason for that separation is that people cannot agree on morals, even individual to individual within the same body(ie religion). If we seek to placate everyone from getting offended because of morals, we all end up living in solitary confinement. Or alternatively have government driven and mandatory religion(IE Dominionism/Sharia Law), which, historically, does not work out well at all.
 
2013-07-16 05:52:10 PM

Jabberwookiee: Okay, so a photographer was attacked. Way to go guys.


Good, they're the ones who need most to be attacked. F*cking vultures.
 
2013-07-16 06:03:24 PM

omeganuepsilon: vygramul: Criminal procedings only determine if the government has proved what he did was a crime, not that he was, in fact, just.
In that case?     What is "just"

Cobblestone Flag: He can still be any degree of in the wrong

What is "wrong"?

The point being(and you may already get this Cobb, but you both said something so...):

The justice system is all we have.  We cannot even attempt to perform some sort of moral judgement and persecution on any scale.  If you don't like him, that's fine, that's your right.  But taking it further than that is no different than wanting to brand him or make him wear a scarlet "M".  Taking it further by telling or seeking to convince others is a moral crusade.

Kinda the reason we have separation of church and state and the only standard being the rule of law(flawed and injected with morality as it is in other circumstances(ie abortion/gay marriage/etc), it's certainly not in this case[clearly hinging on self defense]).

The biggest reason for that separation is that people cannot agree on morals, even individual to individual within the same body(ie religion). If we seek to placate everyone from getting offended because of morals, we all end up living in solitary confinement. Or alternatively have government driven and mandatory religion(IE Dominionism/Sharia Law), which, historically, does not work out well at all.


Don't get confused. We as individuals are not bound to have our opinions reflect that of the courts. Do you feel the OJ verdict was "just". What about the FISA court rulings? It's what we have! You're unreasonable to cast doubt! Nonsense.
 
2013-07-16 06:15:45 PM

vygramul: Don't get confused. We as individuals are not bound to have our opinions reflect that of the courts.


Take your own advice.  I never said you were bound to agree, even said you could feel however you like.  I did imply it was ridiculous to care, dangerous to continue to pursue moral justice, but not that you were bound to agree.
 
2013-07-16 06:20:50 PM

vygramul: So had Zimmerman not had a gun with him, Martin wouldn't have been able to reach for a gun and create the requisite fear for his life Zimmerman used to justify killing Martin?

What a morally superior position Zimmerman has.



Yep.

Had Zimmerman been unarmed, we wouldn't be calling him a racist right now, would we?

Indeed, had he been unarmed, WE likely wouldn't be calling him anything at all, as we likely would never have heard of him - the case would have been written off as just another run-of-the-mill case where a black thug brutally attacked some "creepy-ass cracker" - not even CLOSE to being newsworthy.

The handful of people that did know of the case would refer to Zimmerman as "the victim" or "the deceased", and to Trayvon as "the defendant", "the perpetrator" or simply as Inmate #8742166.

The moral of vygramul's story: You're better off dead than being accused of "racism".


/Unless you're black, of course
 
2013-07-16 06:26:03 PM
Moss covered three-handled protestdenza!

Two-time hardcore champ!
 
2013-07-16 06:49:16 PM

TheJoe03: BraveNewCheneyWorld: I remember the white riots after the OJ Simpson verdict too..

Keep it up there Bubba, I bet your so proud of that asinine comment.


You were at a loss to provide a decent response, so it served its purpose.
 
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