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(Global News (Canada))   Leaked memo shows Canadian Prime Ministers Office ordering outgoing Ministers to make a blacklist of reporters, enemies etc. Richard Nixon seen smiling in his grave   (globalnews.ca) divider line 64
    More: Asinine, Richard Nixon, Global News, PMO  
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780 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Jul 2013 at 12:41 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



64 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-07-15 09:38:20 PM
Ministers do not do anything. The staffers are the ones who do the dirty work.
 
2013-07-15 10:04:42 PM
Do Canadian politicians go to American Ivy League schools?
 
2013-07-15 10:16:30 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Do Canadian politicians go to American Ivy League schools?


Harper is an evangelist who would be like American evangelist politicians except he knows the Canadian electorate would have him out of there on his ass so fast so he begrudgingly stays away from abortion &  gay marriage.
 
2013-07-16 12:47:15 AM
FTFA: Furtado sent a follow-up email noting that item six on the checklist - fingering troublesome bureaucrats - was "no longer required."

Enough with the foreplay! Let's get down to it!
 
2013-07-16 01:08:09 AM

ontariolightning: ecmoRandomNumbers: Do Canadian politicians go to American Ivy League schools?

Harper is an evangelist who would be like American evangelist politicians except he knows the Canadian electorate would have him out of there on his ass so fast so he begrudgingly stays away from abortion &  gay marriage.



which makes him a smart politician.  I have no problem with a leader being pragmatic above pursuing personal goals that would go against the wishes of the populace.  And while strongly worded the memo really isn't that surprising.  You'd want the new guy/girl to be informed of who is helpful vs. combative to your office when you come in.
 
2013-07-16 01:14:04 AM
What kind of dolt would approve of something like that?
 
2013-07-16 01:15:22 AM
It's called opposition research.  It's essential to getting things done in politics.  Knowing who will oppose a bill you put forward, who can be persuaded, who's a lost cause and will need to be worked around, who you'll need to be prepared to respond to attacks from, etc. isn't evil, it's intelligent.

But hey, pssshhhhhh, who needs rational analysis when you can throw around words like "blacklist" and unsubstantiated rumors (not that I can see a problem with knowing which news publications are going to be hostile to you either, even if it were true).
 
2013-07-16 01:40:59 AM
Pfft. Lists. Overrated.
 
2013-07-16 01:50:05 AM

Representative of the unwashed masses: ontariolightning: ecmoRandomNumbers: Do Canadian politicians go to American Ivy League schools?

Harper is an evangelist who would be like American evangelist politicians except he knows the Canadian electorate would have him out of there on his ass so fast so he begrudgingly stays away from abortion &  gay marriage.


which makes him a smart politician.  I have no problem with a leader being pragmatic above pursuing personal goals that would go against the wishes of the populace.  And while strongly worded the memo really isn't that surprising.  You'd want the new guy/girl to be informed of who is helpful vs. combative to your office when you come in.


He is not that smart.  You should see who he thinks is trustworthy.  Hiring a con artist as a adviser, appointing thieves and women beaters to the Senate, and he has at least 2 RCMP investigations going on against his government.

So he's just you average dumbass Conservative.
 
2013-07-16 01:55:14 AM
When the source and some others in their office protested putting such lists together, the group was labelled "political unreliable" and cut off from further communications on the matter, the source said.

Protesting the list? You bet that's gonna get you on the list.
 
2013-07-16 01:57:20 AM

mtbhucker: Representative of the unwashed masses: ontariolightning: ecmoRandomNumbers: Do Canadian politicians go to American Ivy League schools?

Harper is an evangelist who would be like American evangelist politicians except he knows the Canadian electorate would have him out of there on his ass so fast so he begrudgingly stays away from abortion &  gay marriage.


which makes him a smart politician.  I have no problem with a leader being pragmatic above pursuing personal goals that would go against the wishes of the populace.  And while strongly worded the memo really isn't that surprising.  You'd want the new guy/girl to be informed of who is helpful vs. combative to your office when you come in.

He is not that smart.  You should see who he thinks is trustworthy.  Hiring a con artist as a adviser, appointing thieves and women beaters to the Senate, and he has at least 2 RCMP investigations going on against his government.

So he's just you average dumbass Conservative.


I would go with arrogant. Usually fundie cons. are fueled by self righteousness and become arrogant.
 
2013-07-16 02:04:07 AM

fusillade762: When the source and some others in their office protested putting such lists together, the group was labelled "political unreliable" and cut off from further communications on the matter, the source said.

Protesting the list? You bet that's gonna get you on the list.


You know who ELSE had a list?

celebsview.info
 
2013-07-16 02:04:08 AM
Corruption? In Canada? Aw shiat.
 
2013-07-16 02:17:38 AM
The phrase, "biting the hand that feeds you." comes to mind with reporters getting shutout for being attention whores.
 
2013-07-16 02:18:32 AM

HighOnCraic: fusillade762: When the source and some others in their office protested putting such lists together, the group was labelled "political unreliable" and cut off from further communications on the matter, the source said.

Protesting the list? You bet that's gonna get you on the list.

You know who ELSE had a list?


Oskar Schindler?
 
2013-07-16 02:23:50 AM
i42.tinypic.com

i42.tinypic.com
 
2013-07-16 04:20:00 AM
The source said the  PMO also  made a verbal request that ministerial staff  come up with a list of "enemy reporters," but the request was subsequently withdrawn.

There's a metric tonne of meh here.

Pretty much like the cabinet shuffle itself which basically added a couple new female faces into lower ranking portfolios while leaving the major players and upper hierarchy intact.
 
2013-07-16 05:48:50 AM
HARPER IS A MONSTER THAT MUST BE STOPPED!
when we find the time to I mean it was hot out today and work is crazy all of next week then there's my sister's birthday
 
2013-07-16 07:14:08 AM

thoughtless: HARPER IS A MONSTER THAT MUST BE STOPPED!
when we find the time to I mean it was hot out today and work is crazy all of next week then there's my sister's birthday


Brigette DePape is that you
 
2013-07-16 07:33:58 AM

Emposter: It's called opposition research.  It's essential to getting things done in politics.  Knowing who will oppose a bill you put forward, who can be persuaded, who's a lost cause and will need to be worked around, who you'll need to be prepared to respond to attacks from, etc. isn't evil, it's intelligent.


Reporters and Civil Servants in your OWN DEPARTMENT are not the opposition.
 
2013-07-16 07:40:23 AM
Looks like Muskie wasn't the only person to have problems with Cannocks.

/This has been your regularly scheduled Nixon-era joke.
 
2013-07-16 08:03:25 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Do Canadian politicians go to American Ivy League schools?


We need to start electing politicians who went to Directional Schools, Techs, A&Ms, A&Is,  and  trade schools.  Ivy league graduates are like royal families, too inbred.
 
2013-07-16 08:04:51 AM
I find Pierre Polievre to be the most annoying, odious douchebag I've ever seen. Anywhere. Even movies.

/got nothing, unsurprised
 
2013-07-16 08:08:45 AM
Canada is still being amateurish. When you start using the Justice Minister and Canada Revenue Agency to attack those on those lists ten you have a scandal. Just having a list of people who may not be on your side is no big deal.
 
2013-07-16 09:14:30 AM

thoughtless: HARPER IS A MONSTER THAT MUST BE STOPPED!
when we find the time to I mean it was hot out today and work is crazy all of next week then there's my sister's birthday


Never fear, Justin Trudeau is here!  Well, when he's not skipping work to do speeches anyway.
 
2013-07-16 09:15:12 AM

hasty ambush: Canada is still being amateurish. When you start using the Justice Minister and Canada Revenue Agency to attack those on those lists ten you have a scandal. Just having a list of people who may not be on your side is no big deal.


Actually, I think it's just that the Conservatives are still doing testing on how much evil the Canadian people will not notice/pointedly ignore.  They went with an American style TV campaign last federal election (basically lies and hyperbole) and it won them the majority.  Then they experimented with mixed results on passing patently foolish and damaging legislation to some success.  And when the Liberals elected their new leader, they did an American style smear job on Trudeau.  It's a process for the Conservatives, I just hope that a few more Canadian people figure out what a clown Harper is and send him back to the position of "loyal opposition".
 
2013-07-16 09:30:05 AM

quatchi: The source said the  PMO also  made a verbal request that ministerial staff  come up with a list of "enemy reporters," but the request was subsequently withdrawn.

There's a metric tonne of meh here.

Pretty much like the cabinet shuffle itself which basically added a couple new female faces into lower ranking portfolios while leaving the major players and upper hierarchy intact.


Nailed it. The top 5- 6 guys are entrenched, the remaining ministers are basically chair ballast.
 
2013-07-16 09:33:06 AM

Mercutio74: Actually, I think it's just that the Conservatives are still doing testing on how much evil the Canadian people will not notice/pointedly ignore.  They went with an American style TV campaign last federal election (basically lies and hyperbole) and it won them the majority.  Then they experimented with mixed results on passing patently foolish and damaging legislation to some success.  And when the Liberals elected their new leader, they did an American style smear job on Trudeau.  It's a process for the Conservatives, I just hope that a few more Canadian people figure out what a clown Harper is and send him back to the position of "loyal opposition".


I think Harper is done next election.  Waaay too many scandals, and he's losing tons of support in the East.  His American style of governance (always campaigning, always spinning) is a turnoff for most Canadians.

If it wasn't for the East, no Harper majority.
If it wasn't for the Liberal leadership deficit and implosion, no Harper majority.

Both or either of those will sink him.
 
2013-07-16 09:38:59 AM

jakomo002: I think Harper is done next election. Waaay too many scandals, and he's losing tons of support in the East. His American style of governance (always campaigning, always spinning) is a turnoff for most Canadians.

If it wasn't for the East, no Harper majority.
If it wasn't for the Liberal leadership deficit and implosion, no Harper majority.

Both or either of those will sink him.


It depends if the Liberals can win all their support back from the NDP. The problem is that the left is split now like the right was in the 90s. With a Weeners the post election style, that means that the Conservatives can win seats in ridings when the majority of people are totally against their policies.

You've got to hope that some backbencher manages to reopen the debate on gay marriage or abortion. That would sink them. Harper has been pretty good about keeping a lid on that though.
 
2013-07-16 09:42:16 AM

jakomo002: I think Harper is done next election. Waaay too many scandals, and he's losing tons of support in the East. His American style of governance (always campaigning, always spinning) is a turnoff for most Canadians.

If it wasn't for the East, no Harper majority.
If it wasn't for the Liberal leadership deficit and implosion, no Harper majority.

Both or either of those will sink him.


Yeah, I've also try to get my fellow 905-er farkwads to realize that conservative-style governance doesn't work.  And it especially doesn't work in Canada where we have come to depend on moderate, reasonable stewardship of the country.  Personally, I'd love to see a minority Liberal gov't... or, ideally, a Liberal-NDP coalition.  I've found the Canadian gov't has always worked best when the party in power needs to consult with the other parties to stay in charge.  Though to be fair, the Chretien liberals did a non-terrible job overall during their majorities.
 
2013-07-16 09:58:10 AM

mtbhucker: Representative of the unwashed masses: ontariolightning: ecmoRandomNumbers: Do Canadian politicians go to American Ivy League schools?

Harper is an evangelist who would be like American evangelist politicians except he knows the Canadian electorate would have him out of there on his ass so fast so he begrudgingly stays away from abortion &  gay marriage.


which makes him a smart politician.  I have no problem with a leader being pragmatic above pursuing personal goals that would go against the wishes of the populace.  And while strongly worded the memo really isn't that surprising.  You'd want the new guy/girl to be informed of who is helpful vs. combative to your office when you come in.

He is not that smart.  You should see who he thinks is trustworthy.  Hiring a con artist as a adviser, appointing thieves and women beaters to the Senate, and he has at least 2 RCMP investigations going on against his government.

So he's just you average dumbass Conservative.


Not to mention he named a creationist chiropractor as Minister of State for Science & Technology...
 
2013-07-16 10:00:21 AM
Oh, I see that after this latest shuffle, Greg Rickford is the new S & T Minister.

So there's that.
 
2013-07-16 10:14:24 AM

miscreant: jakomo002: I think Harper is done next election. Waaay too many scandals, and he's losing tons of support in the East. His American style of governance (always campaigning, always spinning) is a turnoff for most Canadians.

If it wasn't for the East, no Harper majority.
If it wasn't for the Liberal leadership deficit and implosion, no Harper majority.

Both or either of those will sink him.

It depends if the Liberals can win all their support back from the NDP. The problem is that the left is split now like the right was in the 90s. With a Weeners the post election style, that means that the Conservatives can win seats in ridings when the majority of people are totally against their policies.

You've got to hope that some backbencher manages to reopen the debate on gay marriage or abortion. That would sink them. Harper has been pretty good about keeping a lid on that though.


That still leaves the question of who can be elected in Harper's place. NPD economic policies would be disastrous and every time Trudeau opens his mouth he manages to insult the west. I would like to see a change of leadership, sure, but there is no one with the chops or the balls to replace him.

Canada lost its best chance of governance when Jack Layton died. He could have reigned in the excesses of a Tory majority parliament and provided the moral and progressive voice of Canadians while still allowing some legislation to pass. Mulcair isn't up to it.
 
2013-07-16 10:23:58 AM

Mouldy Squid: That still leaves the question of who can be elected in Harper's place. NPD economic policies would be disastrous and every time Trudeau opens his mouth he manages to insult the west. I would like to see a change of leadership, sure, but there is no one with the chops or the balls to replace him.

Canada lost its best chance of governance when Jack Layton died. He could have reigned in the excesses of a Tory majority parliament and provided the moral and progressive voice of Canadians while still allowing some legislation to pass. Mulcair isn't up to it.


It's a fair point, but really, the prairies aren't where Liberal and NDP seats come from.  I guess the hope is that Trudeau wins on name recognization, he's kinda green when it comes to parliamentary politics.  I do agree with you, Mulcair isn't up to the task, but then nor is he the kind of rallying force to bring NDP candidates to parliament either.  In a way, weaker leadership of the NDP might make an easier path for Trudeau to become PM.  He may still need the NDP's help to maintain office, but I think that's in the best interest of the nation anyhow.
 
2013-07-16 10:25:06 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Do Canadian politicians go to American Ivy League schools?


Yes, and they teach at Harvard as well. For example, Brian Mulroney teaches and Michael Ignatieff is a very well-respected politicla theorist, both were Harvard profs.
 
2013-07-16 10:29:48 AM

Mouldy Squid: Canada lost its best chance of governance when Jack Layton died. He could have reigned in the excesses of a Tory majority parliament and provided the moral and progressive voice of Canadians while still allowing some legislation to pass. Mulcair isn't up to it.


 Canadians farked up when they didn't elect Paul Martin.   However, Layton would certainly have been better than Harper.
 
2013-07-16 10:33:50 AM

mrshowrules: Canadians farked up when they didn't elect Paul Martin. However, Layton would certainly have been better than Harper.


We farked up when we maintained an electoral system without run off voting where 37% of the popular vote can get a majority gov't that a majority of the population despises.
 
2013-07-16 10:33:58 AM

Mouldy Squid: That still leaves the question of who can be elected in Harper's place. NPD economic policies would be disastrous and every time Trudeau opens his mouth he manages to insult the west prairies. I would like to see a change of leadership, sure, but there is no one with the chops or the balls to replace him.


FTFY. The Liberals/NDP can still win lots of seats in BC. They'll never win Alberta no matter what they do, so they only really risk losing any chance at Saskatchewan... which, from a political calculation, is worth it to shore up votes in the east. I doubt either party has the ability to kick the Conservatives out at the moment though. I won't be holding my breath.
 
2013-07-16 10:56:16 AM

RockofAges: Mouldy Squid: miscreant: jakomo002: I think Harper is done next election. Waaay too many scandals, and he's losing tons of support in the East. His American style of governance (always campaigning, always spinning) is a turnoff for most Canadians.

If it wasn't for the East, no Harper majority.
If it wasn't for the Liberal leadership deficit and implosion, no Harper majority.

Both or either of those will sink him.

It depends if the Liberals can win all their support back from the NDP. The problem is that the left is split now like the right was in the 90s. With a Weeners the post election style, that means that the Conservatives can win seats in ridings when the majority of people are totally against their policies.

You've got to hope that some backbencher manages to reopen the debate on gay marriage or abortion. That would sink them. Harper has been pretty good about keeping a lid on that though.

That still leaves the question of who can be elected in Harper's place. NPD economic policies would be disastrous and every time Trudeau opens his mouth he manages to insult the west. I would like to see a change of leadership, sure, but there is no one with the chops or the balls to replace him.

Canada lost its best chance of governance when Jack Layton died. He could have reigned in the excesses of a Tory majority parliament and provided the moral and progressive voice of Canadians while still allowing some legislation to pass. Mulcair isn't up to it.

LOL, the NDP has produced balanced budgets in NS and in other provinces in general. If you actually LOOK AT THE NUMBERS, "Conservatives" almost universally increase deficit spending, increase debt, and yet somehow cut all services to the bone while doing so.

So yea, your belief in the "fiscal conservative" unicorn is noted, but factually baseless.


I guess that's why every province that elected them removed them from power in the next election. Manitoba and Nova Scotia are pretty much the only place where the NDP has maintained a hold of provincial power.

I am no water carrier for the Conservatives, but deficit spending is exactly what you are supposed to do during a recession. Harper's government has done that. Harper is an economist and during economic chaos, do you think that a school teacher or a lawyer are the ones to craft economic policy? Are you saying that decreasing spending is the best way to prop up the economy during a recession?

We may have been able to weather the economic storm because of Liberal government regulation of the banking industry, but that only kept out economy from outright collapse. Harper's Canada Action Plan is actually working, particularly in the infrastructure section (which is in need of upgrading, or should be keep letting out roads and bridges go the way of the U.S.?).

I don't like his crime policies, I don't like his social policies and I don't like his religion (at least he's smart enough not to wear it on his sleeve), but I cannot fault his recent economic policies (F35 debacle aside, oh, and let's not forget it was Chretien's government that signed us into that treaty).

Yes, Canada needs to elect a non-Conservative government, and soon. But the even keel that we have maintained during the recession is due in large part to their economic policies.
 
2013-07-16 11:03:31 AM
RockofAges:

LOL, the NDP has produced balanced budgets in NS and in other provinces in general.

Ontario would like a word with you.
 
2013-07-16 11:13:33 AM

Mercutio74: Mouldy Squid: That still leaves the question of who can be elected in Harper's place. NPD economic policies would be disastrous and every time Trudeau opens his mouth he manages to insult the west. I would like to see a change of leadership, sure, but there is no one with the chops or the balls to replace him.

Canada lost its best chance of governance when Jack Layton died. He could have reigned in the excesses of a Tory majority parliament and provided the moral and progressive voice of Canadians while still allowing some legislation to pass. Mulcair isn't up to it.

It's a fair point, but really, the prairies aren't where Liberal and NDP seats come from.  I guess the hope is that Trudeau wins on name recognization, he's kinda green when it comes to parliamentary politics.  I do agree with you, Mulcair isn't up to the task, but then nor is he the kind of rallying force to bring NDP candidates to parliament either.  In a way, weaker leadership of the NDP might make an easier path for Trudeau to become PM.  He may still need the NDP's help to maintain office, but I think that's in the best interest of the nation anyhow.


Name recognition does not a Prime Minister make; you need more of a pedigree than a famous daddy. People are still butt-hurt out west over the NEP and that was forty years ago. The name Trudeau is irrevocably attached to that, so name recognition is not something that helps him here. I like Justin's moxy, I like his direction on crime and cannabis, and I can see why he appeals to younger voters regardless of what part of the country they're from. Hell, if I wasn't worried about the Liberals farking about with the Firearms Act, I might even vote for him.

The real problem is that Canada needs an entirely new party, or a bunch of smaller parties that better reflect what voters want. A party that takes the best aspects from the Liberals, the NDP and the Conservatives doesn't exist and probably never will. You must admit, though, there really isn't anyone we can elect right now. Mulcair is a dish-rag, Trudeau is too inexperienced and Harper does have to go.

We also need to reform the Elections Act, and do something about the total uneveness of the electoral landscape. There is a lot of resentment in the west about how Ontario and Quebec can elect a PM without us. I am not saying that they shouldn't be able to, it's just that it doesn't help matters when it appears that provinces like Albert and Saskatchewan don't count. I know that many people in the smaller Atlantic provinces feel the same way, but they traditionally vote Liberal. Proportional representation of some sort will go a long way in fixing Canada's political woes. It will also help to foster newer (smaller) parties that better represent the electorate and lead to coalition governments, which seem to work the best for countries like Canada.
 
2013-07-16 11:20:03 AM

Mercutio74: mrshowrules: Canadians farked up when they didn't elect Paul Martin. However, Layton would certainly have been better than Harper.

We farked up when we maintained an electoral system without run off voting where 37% of the popular vote can get a majority gov't that a majority of the population despises.


Yeah, it really is farked. I wish Nathan Cullen and Joyce Murray would have won their respective party leadership races, so we could get some sort of co-operation on the left. It looks like we may get the same result next election though. Harper and Co. may be terrible for the country but they do know how to play the game of politics.
 
2013-07-16 11:50:36 AM

Mouldy Squid: We also need to reform the Elections Act, and do something about the total uneveness of the electoral landscape. There is a lot of resentment in the west about how Ontario and Quebec can elect a PM without us. I am not saying that they shouldn't be able to, it's just that it doesn't help matters when it appears that provinces like Albert and Saskatchewan don't count. I know that many people in the smaller Atlantic provinces feel the same way, but they traditionally vote Liberal. Proportional representation of some sort will go a long way in fixing Canada's political woes. It will also help to foster newer (smaller) parties that better represent the electorate and lead to coalition governments, which seem to work the best for countries like Canada.


I live in Ontario and I think this is something we should look at.  The type of voting system that the fark filter changes to Weeners doesn't foster the kind of representation we need to have in parliament.  The voice of the people should be reflected in the party make up of parliament.

Also, we should think of something better to do with the Senate.  It's not really serving us in its current form.
 
2013-07-16 11:51:47 AM
So I take it Mouldy Squid is a paid schill.  Hell, I live in ranch country in Southern Alberta, and I haven't heard one person say anything favourable about the economic action plan.  The hardcore conservatives around here even call it propaganda.  When he's lost my email forwarding cousins, you know he's trouble.
 
2013-07-16 12:02:11 PM

mtbhucker: So I take it Mouldy Squid is a paid schill.  Hell, I live in ranch country in Southern Alberta, and I haven't heard one person say anything favourable about the economic action plan.  The hardcore conservatives around here even call it propaganda.  When he's lost my email forwarding cousins, you know he's trouble.


Just out of curiosity, what improvements would your cousins make to the economic action plan?  I'm going to assume it involves getting rid of the social safety net and cutting the hell out of everything.

Personally, I feel the EAP could have been a lot farking worse than it is considering that it sprung from a Conservative majority gov't.  I'm not a huge fan, but at least it's not tea party approved.
 
2013-07-16 12:03:05 PM

Mercutio74: Mouldy Squid: We also need to reform the Elections Act, and do something about the total uneveness of the electoral landscape. There is a lot of resentment in the west about how Ontario and Quebec can elect a PM without us. I am not saying that they shouldn't be able to, it's just that it doesn't help matters when it appears that provinces like Albert and Saskatchewan don't count. I know that many people in the smaller Atlantic provinces feel the same way, but they traditionally vote Liberal. Proportional representation of some sort will go a long way in fixing Canada's political woes. It will also help to foster newer (smaller) parties that better represent the electorate and lead to coalition governments, which seem to work the best for countries like Canada.

I live in Ontario and I think this is something we should look at.  The type of voting system that the fark filter changes to Weeners doesn't foster the kind of representation we need to have in parliament.  The voice of the people should be reflected in the party make up of parliament.

Also, we should think of something better to do with the Senate.  It's not really serving us in its current form.


An elected Senate was supposed to be one of the planks of the Conservative platform from way back in the Reform Party days, so that's another strike against the Tories. Not that the Liberals have ever made any noise about reforming it. It's too convenient a place to stack with the party faithful.

PR would be a great way of ensuring the electorate get better representation in Parliament. There is no party I want to vote for, and the smaller parties that are attractive to many simply aren't allowed to have seats in Ottawa. So we are stuck voting for the lesser of three evils or lodging protest votes against any particular party. This does not make for good government. Countries like Germany and Norway have several parties that form blocs to work together. How a modern Western nation can get by with only three, or worse yet, two political parties is an anachronism that should be done away with. Too bad it will never happen. Electoral reform is not in the interest of any of our Parties. It would do away with majority governments.
 
2013-07-16 12:07:37 PM

mtbhucker: So I take it Mouldy Squid is a paid schill.  Hell, I live in ranch country in Southern Alberta, and I haven't heard one person say anything favourable about the economic action plan.  The hardcore conservatives around here even call it propaganda.  When he's lost my email forwarding cousins, you know he's trouble.


Do your conservative rancher buddies believe in deficit spending to drive economies during recession? Or do they drink the American kool-aid and say that we need to balance budgets at the expense of everything else?

The EAP has it's flaws, certainly, but it is a fact that much of the infrastructure being built or renovated in Alberta and elsewhere is funded by it. Without those Federal dollars, none of this construction and employment would be happening.
 
2013-07-16 12:38:31 PM
Welcome to your first day on the cabinet!  Here is your name badge and your list of enemies.  Remember, all public statements must first be approved by the PMO.  Welcome to the team!!
 
2013-07-16 12:43:34 PM

Mercutio74: mtbhucker: So I take it Mouldy Squid is a paid schill.  Hell, I live in ranch country in Southern Alberta, and I haven't heard one person say anything favourable about the economic action plan.  The hardcore conservatives around here even call it propaganda.  When he's lost my email forwarding cousins, you know he's trouble.

Just out of curiosity, what improvements would your cousins make to the economic action plan?  I'm going to assume it involves getting rid of the social safety net and cutting the hell out of everything.

Personally, I feel the EAP could have been a lot farking worse than it is considering that it sprung from a Conservative majority gov't.  I'm not a huge fan, but at least it's not tea party approved.


Mouldy Squid: mtbhucker: So I take it Mouldy Squid is a paid schill.  Hell, I live in ranch country in Southern Alberta, and I haven't heard one person say anything favourable about the economic action plan.  The hardcore conservatives around here even call it propaganda.  When he's lost my email forwarding cousins, you know he's trouble.

Do your conservative rancher buddies believe in deficit spending to drive economies during recession? Or do they drink the American kool-aid and say that we need to balance budgets at the expense of everything else?

The EAP has it's flaws, certainly, but it is a fact that much of the infrastructure being built or renovated in Alberta and elsewhere is funded by it. Without those Federal dollars, none of this construction and employment would be happening.


The only thing we've gotten out of the EAP in sw alberta area bunch of annoying tv ads and posters.  Oh my town got a new sewer line... 6 years ago.  But then last year they put up a sign on main street touting their achievement and how it was part of EAP.  Bullshiat.

My cousins do vote con, but they also don't believe in gutting the social safety net.  They have also said that Harper is not a true conservative, and wish for the days of Joe Clark! ( I know, I was just as confused about that one) Few around here really do, mainly because our economy is based on what the coal mines in BC do.

As for the ranchers, they are not my buddies.  They want a balanced budget, and wonder why Harper can't balance a budget, but the liberals could even though they would never ever vote liberal.  I am a (gasp) environmentalist, and work with some of them on conservation.  They lament that the current crop of cons are selling out to industry at the expense of agriculture.  Fracking is just starting to move into the eastern slopes of the Rockies, and many are unhappy about the whole situation.  Some are unhappy because when they organize local meetings to talk about oil and gas expansion, the RCMPs show up and take their license plate numbers down.
 
2013-07-16 01:03:56 PM
I have huuuuge problems with the Harper government, and have had them since day one.  The man is an economist who seemed to have conveniently forgotten his schooling in his minority governments.  I won't complain about defecit spending in a recession, but I will complain about pissing away the surplus on a cut to a consumption tax to buy votes.

Yes, I'm seriously saying that 7% GST was smart and good for the country.  If he wanted to cut taxes, income taxes should have been slashed.

I lean Liberal/NDP, so as the father of three children under 10, I'm unimpressed with the child care benefit, and would have rather seen a national child care program.  I find his disdain for science and scientific method frustrating - I mean he made the long-form census optional because one constituent didn't want to report on the number of bathrooms in his house, he appointed a chiropractor creationist as Minister of Sci/tech, he put Rona Ambrose (whose top qualification seems to be great hair) into Health, while he gave freaking Labour and Status of Women to a paediatric orthopaedic surgeon.

I could go on and on.  2015 can't come soon enough.
 
2013-07-16 01:22:42 PM

mtbhucker: Mercutio74: mtbhucker: So I take it Mouldy Squid is a paid schill.  Hell, I live in ranch country in Southern Alberta, and I haven't heard one person say anything favourable about the economic action plan.  The hardcore conservatives around here even call it propaganda.  When he's lost my email forwarding cousins, you know he's trouble.

Just out of curiosity, what improvements would your cousins make to the economic action plan?  I'm going to assume it involves getting rid of the social safety net and cutting the hell out of everything.

Personally, I feel the EAP could have been a lot farking worse than it is considering that it sprung from a Conservative majority gov't.  I'm not a huge fan, but at least it's not tea party approved.

Mouldy Squid: mtbhucker: So I take it Mouldy Squid is a paid schill.  Hell, I live in ranch country in Southern Alberta, and I haven't heard one person say anything favourable about the economic action plan.  The hardcore conservatives around here even call it propaganda.  When he's lost my email forwarding cousins, you know he's trouble.

Do your conservative rancher buddies believe in deficit spending to drive economies during recession? Or do they drink the American kool-aid and say that we need to balance budgets at the expense of everything else?

The EAP has it's flaws, certainly, but it is a fact that much of the infrastructure being built or renovated in Alberta and elsewhere is funded by it. Without those Federal dollars, none of this construction and employment would be happening.

The only thing we've gotten out of the EAP in sw alberta area bunch of annoying tv ads and posters.  Oh my town got a new sewer line... 6 years ago.  But then last year they put up a sign on main street touting their achievement and how it was part of EAP.  Bullshiat.

My cousins do vote con, but they also don't believe in gutting the social safety net.  They have also said that Harper is not a true conservative, and wish for the days of Joe Clark ...


So, just because you personally didn't see the benefits of the EAP other than the sewer line that wouldn't have been built, the whole program is crap and should never have been instituted?

There is a reason Harper isn't balancing the budget: you increase government spending during economic recessions to prop up the economy. You know, Keynsian economics, the system that the Republicans in the US deride at every opportunity. Without government spending the recessions get worse, unemployment increases, people and companies spend less money on products, construction, infrastructure et cetera.

You balance budgets when the economy is on the upswing, when government spending is not needed to employ people, companies pay more tax on their profits and hire workers.

Governments are not households. They cannot be budgeted the same way. Besides, our debt to GDP ratio is three times lower than what it was during world war two, or says the governor of the Bank of Canada, and has been dropping since 2010.

Yes, balanced budgets are good. Budget surpluses are better. But these are things that you do when your economy isn't crashing. Ours is recovering, slowly. When we are finally growing again, that is when you start balancing the budgets.
 
2013-07-16 01:24:16 PM

Mouldy Squid: We also need to reform the Elections Act, and do something about the total uneveness of the electoral landscape. There is a lot of resentment in the west about how Ontario and Quebec can elect a PM without us. I am not saying that they shouldn't be able to, it's just that it doesn't help matters when it appears that provinces like Albert and Saskatchewan don't count. I know that many people in the smaller Atlantic provinces feel the same way, but they traditionally vote Liberal. Proportional representation of some sort will go a long way in fixing Canada's political woes. It will also help to foster newer (smaller) parties that better represent the electorate and lead to coalition governments, which seem to work the best for countries like Canada.


So what you're saying is that even though Ont and Que represent 51% of the population, they shouldn't dictate who is PM? The Majority of Canadians shouldn't control who is PM? It's funny because this last election it was the voters in Ontario that gave Harper his majority.
 
2013-07-16 01:25:30 PM

Pope Larry II: Mouldy Squid: We also need to reform the Elections Act, and do something about the total uneveness of the electoral landscape. There is a lot of resentment in the west about how Ontario and Quebec can elect a PM without us. I am not saying that they shouldn't be able to, it's just that it doesn't help matters when it appears that provinces like Albert and Saskatchewan don't count. I know that many people in the smaller Atlantic provinces feel the same way, but they traditionally vote Liberal. Proportional representation of some sort will go a long way in fixing Canada's political woes. It will also help to foster newer (smaller) parties that better represent the electorate and lead to coalition governments, which seem to work the best for countries like Canada.

So what you're saying is that even though Ont and Que represent 51%  61% of the population, they shouldn't dictate who is PM? The Majority of Canadians shouldn't control who is PM? It's funny because this last election it was the voters in Ontario that gave Harper his majority.


Holy crap my math is bad, that should be 61%, not 51%....
 
2013-07-16 01:31:50 PM

JMacPA: Emposter: It's called opposition research.  It's essential to getting things done in politics.  Knowing who will oppose a bill you put forward, who can be persuaded, who's a lost cause and will need to be worked around, who you'll need to be prepared to respond to attacks from, etc. isn't evil, it's intelligent.

Reporters and Civil Servants in your OWN DEPARTMENT are not the opposition.


You don't seriously believe that, do you?  Are there unicorns eating cotton candy trees in your world?
 
2013-07-16 01:35:30 PM

pzeeman: I have huuuuge problems with the Harper government, and have had them since day one.  The man is an economist who seemed to have conveniently forgotten his schooling in his minority governments.  I won't complain about defecit spending in a recession, but I will complain about pissing away the surplus on a cut to a consumption tax to buy votes.

Yes, I'm seriously saying that 7% GST was smart and good for the country.  If he wanted to cut taxes, income taxes should have been slashed.

I lean Liberal/NDP, so as the father of three children under 10, I'm unimpressed with the child care benefit, and would have rather seen a national child care program.  I find his disdain for science and scientific method frustrating - I mean he made the long-form census optional because one constituent didn't want to report on the number of bathrooms in his house, he appointed a chiropractor creationist as Minister of Sci/tech, he put Rona Ambrose (whose top qualification seems to be great hair) into Health, while he gave freaking Labour and Status of Women to a paediatric orthopaedic surgeon.

I could go on and on.  2015 can't come soon enough.


Child care should be a national program. The GST had to be cut because his campaign promised to do away with the GST altogether (which is simply impossible now, it brings in too much revenue), but yes, income tax, especially for the lower and middle classes should be cut. This would bring more consumer spending without increasing household debt. The census is neither here nor there. Obviously there is a great deal to be learned by the census and it certainly helps identify where social spending can/should be increased. A lot of that information, though, has already been collected by Revenue Canada. The departments aren't allowed to share information because of FOIP, which is stupid.

His cabinet appointments are atrocious. Rewards to the faithful without regard to competence or beneficence. And don't get me started on my MP Ms. Ambrose. That Ayn Rand worshipping twat has held eight cabinet portfolios in as many years. Talk about incompetence. I am waiting for the day that my riding wises up and boots her the hell out of her seat, or at least the day when Harper asks for her resignation. Like Toews, it will be a "wanting to concentrate on her private life" deals. She's an embarrasment for the Tories but Harper needs to keep her around to satisfy the Albertan faithful.
 
2013-07-16 01:36:44 PM

Pope Larry II: Mouldy Squid: We also need to reform the Elections Act, and do something about the total uneveness of the electoral landscape. There is a lot of resentment in the west about how Ontario and Quebec can elect a PM without us. I am not saying that they shouldn't be able to, it's just that it doesn't help matters when it appears that provinces like Albert and Saskatchewan don't count. I know that many people in the smaller Atlantic provinces feel the same way, but they traditionally vote Liberal. Proportional representation of some sort will go a long way in fixing Canada's political woes. It will also help to foster newer (smaller) parties that better represent the electorate and lead to coalition governments, which seem to work the best for countries like Canada.

So what you're saying is that even though Ont and Que represent 51% of the population, they shouldn't dictate who is PM? The Majority of Canadians shouldn't control who is PM? It's funny because this last election it was the voters in Ontario that gave Harper his majority.


I think you might have missed something.
 
2013-07-16 01:58:50 PM

Mouldy Squid:  The census is neither here nor there. Obviously there is a great deal to be learned by the census and it certainly helps identify where social spending can/should be increased. A lot of that information, though, has already been collected by Revenue Canada.


I'll agree that as an isolated event the census cut - while bad for the science where contiguous census results are needed - is not a deal breaker.  It's the pattern that's troubling.  Climate change denial, closing the experimental lakes, basically eliminating protected waterways, controlling the publications of government funded scientists, taking science for it's own sake out of the NRC's mandate.

Getting rid of the GST was a bad election promise.  Keeping a promise to do the wrong thing is not an excuse to follow through with it.  And yes, I would vote for a party that promised to raise the GST - as long as they cut income tax and bring in a carbon tax.  I've said before that Dion had some great, bold, policy ideas but he wasn't the man to sell them.  His platform is the one that I would vote for.
 
2013-07-16 02:04:44 PM

Mouldy Squid: mtbhucker: Mercutio74: mtbhucker: So I take it Mouldy Squid is a paid schill.  Hell, I live in ranch country in Southern Alberta, and I haven't heard one person say anything favourable about the economic action plan.  The hardcore conservatives around here even call it propaganda.  When he's lost my email forwarding cousins, you know he's trouble.

Just out of curiosity, what improvements would your cousins make to the economic action plan?  I'm going to assume it involves getting rid of the social safety net and cutting the hell out of everything.

Personally, I feel the EAP could have been a lot farking worse than it is considering that it sprung from a Conservative majority gov't.  I'm not a huge fan, but at least it's not tea party approved.

Mouldy Squid: mtbhucker: So I take it Mouldy Squid is a paid schill.  Hell, I live in ranch country in Southern Alberta, and I haven't heard one person say anything favourable about the economic action plan.  The hardcore conservatives around here even call it propaganda.  When he's lost my email forwarding cousins, you know he's trouble.

Do your conservative rancher buddies believe in deficit spending to drive economies during recession? Or do they drink the American kool-aid and say that we need to balance budgets at the expense of everything else?

The EAP has it's flaws, certainly, but it is a fact that much of the infrastructure being built or renovated in Alberta and elsewhere is funded by it. Without those Federal dollars, none of this construction and employment would be happening.

The only thing we've gotten out of the EAP in sw alberta area bunch of annoying tv ads and posters.  Oh my town got a new sewer line... 6 years ago.  But then last year they put up a sign on main street touting their achievement and how it was part of EAP.  Bullshiat.

My cousins do vote con, but they also don't believe in gutting the social safety net.  They have also said that Harper is not a true conservative, and wish for the days o ...


You know Harper's government began running deficits before the recession hit, right?

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/opinion-story/3364084-harper-has-no-one -t o-blame-but-himself/
 
2013-07-16 02:20:27 PM

Mouldy Squid: mtbhucker: Mercutio74: mtbhucker: So I take it Mouldy Squid is a paid schill.  Hell, I live in ranch country in Southern Alberta, and I haven't heard one person say anything favourable about the economic action plan.  The hardcore conservatives around here even call it propaganda.  When he's lost my email forwarding cousins, you know he's trouble.

Just out of curiosity, what improvements would your cousins make to the economic action plan?  I'm going to assume it involves getting rid of the social safety net and cutting the hell out of everything.

Personally, I feel the EAP could have been a lot farking worse than it is considering that it sprung from a Conservative majority gov't.  I'm not a huge fan, but at least it's not tea party approved.

Mouldy Squid: mtbhucker: So I take it Mouldy Squid is a paid schill.  Hell, I live in ranch country in Southern Alberta, and I haven't heard one person say anything favourable about the economic action plan.  The hardcore conservatives around here even call it propaganda.  When he's lost my email forwarding cousins, you know he's trouble.

Do your conservative rancher buddies believe in deficit spending to drive economies during recession? Or do they drink the American kool-aid and say that we need to balance budgets at the expense of everything else?

The EAP has it's flaws, certainly, but it is a fact that much of the infrastructure being built or renovated in Alberta and elsewhere is funded by it. Without those Federal dollars, none of this construction and employment would be happening.

The only thing we've gotten out of the EAP in sw alberta area bunch of annoying tv ads and posters.  Oh my town got a new sewer line... 6 years ago.  But then last year they put up a sign on main street touting their achievement and how it was part of EAP.  Bullshiat.

My cousins do vote con, but they also don't believe in gutting the social safety net.  They have also said that Harper is not a true conservative, and wish for the days o ...


I know he's trying the whole starve the beast thing.

The whole EAP is just propaganda.  I didn't see previous governments blowing their own horns over building needed infrastructure.  It just had to be done, and so it was done with minimal fanfare and back-patting, which is all this EAP is.  Take out all ads and back-patting bullshiat, I would be fine with it.

rustypouch:

Yes, I am quite aware and I do vote Liberal.  How liberal?  There is a picture of Pierre Trudeau holding me as a baby floating around the house, and my Grandpa was also fundraiser for the liberals.  We are one of the few really Liberal families in Southern Alberta.

Fun fact:  I was asked to run for the liberals in 97 election and declined.  I do have experience in politics, and right now I lobby the provincial govt on behalf of business owners (mostly tourist based, b&b's, outfitters, fly fishing guides, restaurant owners and the like) who are against logging and other industrial activities that harm their interests. Right now the Harper Government would consider me anti-Canadian because of my environmental work.
 
2013-07-16 02:25:20 PM

pzeeman: Mouldy Squid:  The census is neither here nor there. Obviously there is a great deal to be learned by the census and it certainly helps identify where social spending can/should be increased. A lot of that information, though, has already been collected by Revenue Canada.

I'll agree that as an isolated event the census cut - while bad for the science where contiguous census results are needed - is not a deal breaker.  It's the pattern that's troubling.  Climate change denial, closing the experimental lakes, basically eliminating protected waterways, controlling the publications of government funded scientists, taking science for it's own sake out of the NRC's mandate.

Getting rid of the GST was a bad election promise.   Keeping a promise to do the wrong thing is not an excuse to follow through with it.  And yes, I would vote for a party that promised to raise the GST - as long as they cut income tax and bring in a carbon tax.  I've said before that Dion had some great, bold, policy ideas but he wasn't the man to sell them.  His platform is the one that I would vote for.


Oh, I agree, but the Tories and their constituents didn't believe that it was wrong to cut the GST. In fact, there was some major blowback when it was reduced to 5% instead of being scrapped. I don't have any problem with the GST personally, and I think 5% is pretty much where it should be. We already have several hidden luxury taxes and duties to make up the difference on products that should be taxed. Added to some PSTs that tax starts to become a big bite in the wallet for lower income people. Yes, there is a GST rebate, but getting it back at the end of the year doesn't help when you're at the till. Cutting lower and middle class income tax is the only real solution for long term prosperity.

The real impact of Harper's religion is in the cabinet appointments. He can't come out into the open with his religion like they do in the US because that is simply political suicide in Canada, but what he can do is appoint people who agree with its tenets and anti-science agenda to positions where they can influence policy and legislation.

Carbon taxes are a good idea. It will open a new market for things like sequestration and it is a proven strategy for dealing with pollution.
 
2013-07-16 03:02:36 PM
You know, if every country just got rid of their own brand of conservatives forever, we could probably work out our differences,even on complex international disputes.
 
2013-07-16 03:48:00 PM

Mouldy Squid: Added to some PSTs that tax starts to become a big bite in the wallet for lower income people. Yes, there is a GST rebate, but getting it back at the end of the year doesn't help when you're at the till.


I am from Newfoundland when GST was first introduced with the PST it was 19.84% when you combined the taxes. But cost of living vs. income matters more then the taxation rates. Since a fair ammount of things are exempt from GST and/or PST (Groceries and Rent are GST exempt)

Also the GST Rebate is every 3 months IIRC, though it is a pitance.
 
2013-07-16 07:31:05 PM
Quit splitting the vote to the left, and the Cons are done. Jack is dead. Nice fella, but lets face it, the Quebec / NDP thing was a historical anomaly. If Trudeau manages to convince Ontario and Quebec to vote for him, it's all over.
 
2013-07-16 07:35:03 PM

Emposter: JMacPA: Emposter: It's called opposition research.  It's essential to getting things done in politics.  Knowing who will oppose a bill you put forward, who can be persuaded, who's a lost cause and will need to be worked around, who you'll need to be prepared to respond to attacks from, etc. isn't evil, it's intelligent.

Reporters and Civil Servants in your OWN DEPARTMENT are not the opposition.

You don't seriously believe that, do you?  Are there unicorns eating cotton candy trees in your world?


These transition briefings are prepared by the department's staff and are supposed to be non-partisan. Everything else in the list is standard content for the transition books. I'm really not sure how the bureaucrats were supposed to rat themselves out. Also, usually the stakeholder lists would be separated by position on various issues, not "friend" vs "enemy".

I'm sure there are political briefings happening as well, but it was poor form to mix it all into one list like this. I can't imagine ministerial staffers were too happy to receive it mixed all together like that. They probably thought that these instructions had to be entirely transmitted to the civil servants (and holy hell would have broken loose).
 
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