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(Think Progress)   Spiffy: McDonald's helps full-time, low-wage workers fill out a budget. Asinine: By suggesting workers spend $20 a month for health insurance, shut off their heating, live in a slum, and find another full-time, low-wage job to supplement income   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 42
    More: Asinine, McDonalds, wage workers, fast food restaurants  
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3077 clicks; posted to Business » on 15 Jul 2013 at 6:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-07-15 08:02:33 PM  
4 votes:
There are some deluded people in this thread.

Just don't have a phone?  I'm sure your McDonald's manager will appreciate not being able to call you.  Get on your parents plan?  Better home they aren't poor too.  Maybe you can borrow money for college while you're at it.

McDonalds is providing (helpful) heath insurance at 20 dollars a month?  I would eat my foot if that was true.

Don't buy a new car, get a beater instead?  No shiat, they probably already do that.  Beaters still cost farking money.

Eat all McDonald's food (which isn't free for employees by the way).  Yea that's not going to kill you.

The problem isn't high school kids this kind of money.  The problem is adults with families making this kind of money, and their are a lot of them.  Poverty is a cycle that isn't going to be broken by a silly budget written by an HR doofus who has never struggled with money, nor is it going to be broken by smart asses on the internet lamenting about how hard they had it in college.  It can be broken by ensuring our poor have the same opportunity to pursue careers outside of McDonald's as our non-poor, including equally equipped schools, access to good affordable health care, the freedom to not be required to work two jobs, and access to healthy food options.  I could go on, but I'm afraid I might be accused of being a socialist.
2013-07-15 08:30:12 PM  
3 votes:

Wall_of_Doodoo: A person who thinks success comes from simple luck, race, or other factors doesn't understand how reality works.


A person who thinks success comes from simply teeth gritting and never settling doesn't understand how reality works.
2013-07-15 08:28:54 PM  
3 votes:
xynix: I'm always hearing people on Fark biatching about how hard life is but at the end of the day if you work your ass off you will get rewarded. Otherwise it's weak minded bullshiat.

You're wrong. I understand why you think you're right, but you're wrong. Life is not, has never been, and never will be that fair for most people. You might want to try to muster up a little gratitude that your life has never gone so far south that it was unrecoverable, because not everyone is that lucky.

/And if you don't feel lucky, you're a farking idiot.
2013-07-15 07:34:52 PM  
3 votes:

Waldo Pepper: xynix: Gosh.. That's pretty much what I did when I was starting out on my career. 80 hour work weeks are good for the character. Except for a few months I turned off my electricity and gas entirely to save up for my first house. Who needs electricity when you're working all the time? It's just a place to lay a head until the next work day. I lived in a slum.. a $300 a month one room apartment. I didn't have a car payment as I had saved up enough working at Chuck E Cheese when I was 16-17 to buy a decent Toyota that lasted me until I was 22 or so.

For people who expect shiat to land on their lap then yes.. this would be a terrible budget. For a person who wore the same pair of jeans / shoes / shirts for 4 or 5 years while I was bootstrapping this is a completely logical and well thought out budget.

5 years in the same pair of shoes, doubtful you did much standing or walking in said shoes.


He is either lying or he "thinks" he actually did this. You see these types all of the time, the type that in their own mind thought they had everything as hard as the real working poor, but if you actually drill down to it you will find out they weren't anywhere near working for minimum wage or if they were, they had all types of financial help from family.
2013-07-15 07:06:04 PM  
3 votes:
when poverty level was first defined by a study of the slums of england.  It was a popular belief that the poor were poor because they were stupid and wasted their money on alcohol and frivolity.  The study later found that the populace was paid way below even the minimum to survive.  It found that a single sickness would leave a person homeless or in debtors prison.   Children were forced out of school and into unsafe jobs and whole families toiled away to remain below poverty level.

WEll, thank you so very much McDonalds....in your riteous arrogant "benevolent" randian personal responsibility act you went a proved the point of the left.   You assholes just went and demonstrated that you don't pay your workers enough and that the minimum wage is bollox.  Suck my fat c*** you fools, every last one of you.
2013-07-15 06:03:26 PM  
3 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: whistleridge: Said budget:

[thinkprogress.org image 467x588]

Highlights:

* it expects you to work 80 hours per week
* it expects you to only spend $20/month on health insurance
* the car payment and insurance are absurdly low as well
* it does not budget for food, usually the biggest single expense
* it does not budget for things like cell phones, that everyone has

How cute that it thinks folks who are struggling to make ends meet will have $800 to kick around during the month.


And that they will never get tired, sick, have the car break, or have any other emergency expenses.

Why do I suspect that the person who made this budget makes $50k+, gets paid vacation, and doesn't even think about working 80 hours a week?
2013-07-15 05:39:28 PM  
3 votes:
Said budget:

thinkprogress.org

Highlights:

* it expects you to work 80 hours per week
* it expects you to only spend $20/month on health insurance
* the car payment and insurance are absurdly low as well
* it does not budget for food, usually the biggest single expense
* it does not budget for things like cell phones, that everyone has
2013-07-16 09:52:49 AM  
2 votes:
Young white males shouldn't be allowed to comment on how easy it is to get a good paying job.

Especially if they work in IT.

Would you hire a forty year old single mother of three who only had wage slave jobs on their resume to manage your network?  Even if she had certification?

No, no you wouldn't.
2013-07-15 10:46:45 PM  
2 votes:

xynix: but at the end of the day if you work your ass off you will get rewarded. Otherwise it's weak minded bullshiat.


yglesias.thinkprogress.org
mattbruenig.com
media.economist.com
futureofchildren.org
www.brookings.edu
2013-07-15 10:16:29 PM  
2 votes:
80 hours a week, eh?  Because two businesses are going to hire you at exactly full time with non-overlapping schedules and you'll teleport from one to the other.

Hell, these days 80 hours is like four jobs on opposite ends of town.  You'd probably devote well over 100 hours a week trying to keep up with the commutes and uniform changes.  Forget about sleep.  You haven't earned sleep yet.
2013-07-15 09:28:26 PM  
2 votes:
Americans are pants-on-the-head retarded when it comes to being proud of working harder for less than their parents did. What kind of idiot is proud of the fact that their quality of living is slowly being eroded while a tiny few are living better than the royalty of old?
2013-07-15 08:42:22 PM  
2 votes:

DrPainMD: If you're a low-wage McDonald's worker, and you're not a teenager living with your parents, you're doing it wrong.


The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that seven out of 10 growth occupations over the next decade will be low-wage fields. And these jobs are not being done by teenagers. Across the country, the median age of fast-food workers is over 28, and women -- who make up two-thirds of the industry -- are over 32, according to the BLS.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/11/mcjobs-should-pa y- too-inside-fast-food-workers-historic-protest-for-living-wages/265714/
2013-07-15 08:02:01 PM  
2 votes:

xynix: Darth_Lukecash: xynix: Gosh.. That's pretty much what I did when I was starting out on my career. 80 hour work weeks are good for the character. Except for a few months I turned off my electricity and gas entirely to save up for my first house. Who needs electricity when you're working all the time? It's just a place to lay a head until the next work day. I lived in a slum.. a $300 a month one room apartment. I didn't have a car payment as I had saved up enough working at Chuck E Cheese when I was 16-17 to buy a decent Toyota that lasted me until I was 22 or so.

For people who expect shiat to land on their lap then yes.. this would be a terrible budget. For a person who wore the same pair of jeans / shoes / shirts for 4 or 5 years while I was bootstrapping this is a completely logical and well thought out budget.

Were you living at home with mom and Dad when you worked at Chucky Cheese? I mean you were only 16.

Do you realize how lucky you were that nothing went wrong during that time period? That you didn't lose your job or had a horrible accident that prevented you from working. That the economy was in the tank so were it's difficult to get two jobs?  Or that the company you work for folded?

Or the fact that being white probably helped out?

People take risk and try things and more time than not, it doesn't work out.

When I was 16 of course. At 17 I changed jobs so I could work more hours. Then the day I turned 18.. literally I moved out. I worked the graveyard shift at a local security monitoring company from 11pm until 7am then I went home, took a shower, went to school. I did that every school day my senior year and if I could clock overtime on the weekends you damn well bet I was there. Then I worked at CompUSA in the warehouse department to break into the IT industry. I worked there from 8am - 5pm on non-college days (scholarship) and delivered pizza for Pizza Hut from 6pm-12am during the evenings.

Plenty went wrong.. Cars break but I had a savings acco ...


And look what a wonderful and joyful individual you became.
2013-07-15 06:33:44 PM  
2 votes:
And zero savings, thereby ensuring you are trapped in that position forever.
2013-07-15 06:30:39 PM  
2 votes:

xynix: Gosh.. That's pretty much what I did when I was starting out on my career. 80 hour work weeks are good for the character. Except for a few months I turned off my electricity and gas entirely to save up for my first house. Who needs electricity when you're working all the time? It's just a place to lay a head until the next work day. I lived in a slum.. a $300 a month one room apartment. I didn't have a car payment as I had saved up enough working at Chuck E Cheese when I was 16-17 to buy a decent Toyota that lasted me until I was 22 or so.

For people who expect shiat to land on their lap then yes.. this would be a terrible budget. For a person who wore the same pair of jeans / shoes / shirts for 4 or 5 years while I was bootstrapping this is a completely logical and well thought out budget.


Were you living at home with mom and Dad when you worked at Chucky Cheese? I mean you were only 16.

Do you realize how lucky you were that nothing went wrong during that time period? That you didn't lose your job or had a horrible accident that prevented you from working. That the economy was in the tank so were it's difficult to get two jobs?  Or that the company you work for folded?

Or the fact that being white probably helped out?

People take risk and try things and more time than not, it doesn't work out.
2013-07-16 06:23:07 PM  
1 votes:
Oh, and fyi folks on the 'beater' thing: a beater is often going to end up more expensive than a decent car. If you don't have a pocket mechainic and a buddy who can tow you, shiat gets pricy fast.
2013-07-16 10:50:52 AM  
1 votes:

Parkanzky: On the other hand, making poor decisions (A fancy new car with a big loan early-on, an apartment for 25% more money than you should be spending because it's on the right street, every shiny new electronic bauble has to be yours, you won't take an entry-level job that might become something because it pays 10% less than the dead-end job you have now, etc.) will usually bite you in the ass.


These are not the kinds of things keeping people poor. These are the kinds of things people who aren't so bad off do that keep them living paycheck to paycheck. This is, however, the kind of attitude that denies the poor the help they need. But go ahead, keep being one of those simpering morons who think a cable TV subscription is the only thing holding people back.
2013-07-16 08:42:52 AM  
1 votes:

Wall_of_Doodoo: A person who thinks success comes from simple luck, race, or other factors doesn't understand how reality works.


And a person that thinks all it takes to get ahead in life is hard work and determination and can't understand why people don't just work harder is a privileged asshole that truely has no idea how the real world works.
2013-07-16 02:17:07 AM  
1 votes:

inclemency: This argument is coming down to a disturbing fact. Most people think that subsistence is adequate. A meritocracy is not an issue.


Not to mention recent studies have been showing that all that 'grit your teeth and bootstrap up' doesnt work and has massive detrimental effects on your health.

Whats the point of being disturbingly cheap and working yourself half to death every day? So that you can wake up tomorrow and do it all over again? Where does it get you?Whats the point of doing it all to just have to do it all over again? Sounds like a horror story to me. Work today so you can survive to work tomorrow. When you cant work any more pray you qualify for government assistance or that you have people who love you and are willing to take care of you.

If i learned anything today its that the farker 'wall of shiat' is probly a psychopath. Seriously dude -- empathy. You need some. You sound like Dennis on "its always sunny". Just... terrible. Just a terrible human being.
2013-07-16 01:31:49 AM  
1 votes:

inclemency: This argument is coming down to a disturbing fact. Most people think that subsistence is adequate. A meritocracy is not an issue.


This.

It's a little shiatty to hear that you deserve to starve due to a series of events that were never conceivable prior to the choice you made, or weren't due to the choices you made anyway (like, for instance, my fault that my father took out a 300K loan on a house, which if we don't keep will send four of us into homelessness).

The best explanation I've ever heard between Republicans and Dems is this: Democrats understand that we are all one or a few bad days away from absolute disaster, and believe that everyone should have a helping hand if that happens. Republicans think people deserve what they get, then scream special circumstances when bad shiat happens to them for no reason.
2013-07-16 01:13:54 AM  
1 votes:
This argument is coming down to a disturbing fact. Most people think that subsistence is adequate. A meritocracy is not an issue.
2013-07-15 09:20:52 PM  
1 votes:

Wall_of_Doodoo: Sergeant Grumbles: Wall_of_Doodoo: A person who thinks success comes from simple luck, race, or other factors doesn't understand how reality works.

A person who thinks success comes from simply teeth gritting and never settling doesn't understand how reality works.

Horse crap. Plain and simple.

A man who doesn't understand how long and how hard you may have to grit your teeth no matter how many may flake or rot away doesn't understand how reality works or what being a man is.

Perhaps your problem with understanding this is too privedged a life on your part in perspective to actual real people.


Because women don't face unemployment hardships?  Or, they can only deal with them by marrying a guy who is employed?
2013-07-15 09:17:57 PM  
1 votes:

Wall_of_Doodoo: Sergeant Grumbles: Wall_of_Doodoo: A person who thinks success comes from simple luck, race, or other factors doesn't understand how reality works.

A person who thinks success comes from simply teeth gritting and never settling doesn't understand how reality works.

Horse crap. Plain and simple.

A man who doesn't understand how long and how hard you may have to grit your teeth no matter how many may flake or rot away doesn't understand how reality works or what being a man is.

Perhaps your problem with understanding this is too privedged a life on your part in perspective to actual real people.


 "If wealth was the inevitable result ofhard work and enterprise, everywoman in Africa would be a millionaire."
2013-07-15 09:17:19 PM  
1 votes:

Wall_of_Doodoo: A man who doesn't understand how long and how hard you may have to grit your teeth no matter how many may flake or rot away doesn't understand how reality works or what being a man is.


You pathetic attempts at turning poverty into a question of masculinity does nothing to actually address poverty, nor does the prospect of having to grit your teeth until they shatter just to get regular food and shelter.
2013-07-15 09:03:35 PM  
1 votes:

meyerkev: http://bedbugregistry.com/

/aka: The reason I'm spending $2100/month at my current place instead of $1600/month across the street.


How nice that you can afford to live in guaranteed bedbug-free luxury. $2100/month is my net pay.

/BTW, that place I used to live? Not listed.
2013-07-15 08:59:49 PM  
1 votes:

LL316: Health insurance?  My family was in that middle ground...too "rich" for financial aid, too poor to actually send me to a university.  So they stopped claiming me on their taxes, which eventually led to me being able to apply for financial aid without their income.  But this booted me off their health insurance.  I went a 7 years (5 undergrad (shut up), 2 grad) without it.  Bfd.  Get sick?  Drink juice.  It's called making sacrifices in order to better yourself.  Could something terrible have happened?  Of course.  But the odds were against it.


Until they aren't, then you're f--ked.  It's a damn stupid gamble.

In any case, I'm surprised they could.  My friend's sister was estranged from her mother, had a kid of her own, and was living on her own from 18 until 22 when she picked herself up and got into college.  They still took her mom's income into consideration.

Been working since I was 14.  I also worked 80 hour weeks a summer when I was 19 (temp job 8-5, ice cream/take out meals manager 6-11ish).  Worked at the company doing temp for the first two weeks of the summer, job ended, friend's mom needed help at the ice cream stand, then the company called me back for a job of actual importance so I juggled both.

If you have absolutely anything else to worry about - up to and including cooking even just for yourself - it does not. work.  I lived at home, the commute between the two jobs and my house was under 15 minutes, and I just came home and collapsed each night after eating whatever dinner plate my Mom left in the fridge for me.  Barely had time to take care of myself, much less anyone else.  And for a summer that was fine, needed money for school since my family also fell into that crappy middle ground of not rich or poor enough.

But doing that kind of work

a) without a end date in mind,
b) ESPECIALLY without knowing that that effort is going to pay off for you in the end (recent college wall street grad pulling 80 hours a week, owning your own business and pulling 80, etc != an older adult pulling that with the only two retail/food/manual labor jobs/etc they can find.  The former workers know that it's very likely their labor will pay off.  The latter know that one little slip up and the house of cards comes tumbling, and if you're pulling 80 in that work you're likely in a tenuous/desperate life situation at best)

is just unfathomable.  I know people do it and I don't know how their bodies and minds don't break more often.  Maybe they do and it just happens quietly
2013-07-15 08:46:12 PM  
1 votes:

meyerkev: gglibertine: /I beat the bedbugs, but it took me a year, I had to throw away most of what I owned and move across town, and I will never be able to convince myself it's worth the money to buy a decent bed again.

Don't live in a place with bedbugs?  If you can afford to do that, then you can definitely afford a good mattress (Even getting the super-Tempurpedic financed over 48 months is like $125/month).


"Don't live in a place with bedbugs."

Wow, that's some world-class advice, right there. Gosh, why didn't I ever think of that before? Next time I rent an apartment, I'll just ask the rental agent "Do you have bedbugs?" and I'm sure they'll be 100% totally honest with me. Whew! Another bullet dodged!
2013-07-15 07:56:11 PM  
1 votes:

CujoQuarrel: Sergeant Grumbles: CujoQuarrel: And you should be using your free time to gain a skill that allows you to get a better job.

Of course. All the free time 80 hours of work a week will allow you. Who needs sleep anyway? That's just time wasted being eaten by the bed bugs into $600 shiathole.

Why would you pay $600 to live in a shiathole? Move to someplace where the housing is cheaper. Try small to mid sized cities.


you'd be surprised how much housing costs in some areas. where i live it's difficult to find an apartment for $1200/mo plus utilities. and we don't live in a fancypants neighborhood, by far.
2013-07-15 07:52:45 PM  
1 votes:

CujoQuarrel: Sergeant Grumbles: CujoQuarrel: And you should be using your free time to gain a skill that allows you to get a better job.

Of course. All the free time 80 hours of work a week will allow you. Who needs sleep anyway? That's just time wasted being eaten by the bed bugs into $600 shiathole.

Why would you pay $600 to live in a shiathole? Move to someplace where the housing is cheaper. Try small to mid sized cities.


Sometimes that $600 shiathole is all that is available to some people because a lot of people won't rent to someone making under a certain amount.
2013-07-15 07:47:01 PM  
1 votes:

CujoQuarrel: Why would you pay $600 to live in a shiathole? Move to someplace where the housing is cheaper. Try small to mid sized cities.


Strange thing about conventional physics... matter can't be in two places at once.

- Are there fast food joints in more expensive places to live? YES
- Do those fast food places need people to work in them? YES
- Do those people who work in the fast food places in the more expensive places need somewhere to live? YES

So where do you suggest they live? They can't be in the place where housing is cheaper if the job is where the housing is more expensive. What do? What do?
2013-07-15 07:44:14 PM  
1 votes:

Bslim: This is how job creators actually think.


...and the politicians who set minimum wage.
2013-07-15 07:31:00 PM  
1 votes:

jake3988: whistleridge * * Smartest * Funniest 2013-07-15 05:39:28 PM Said budget: Highlights: * it expects you to work 80 hours per week * it expects you to only spend $20/month on health insurance * the car payment and insurance are absurdly low as well * it does not budget for food, usually the biggest single expense * it does not budget for things like cell phones, that everyone has
===============================================================

Actually, it's quite accurate.

A) If heating/gas is 0 that means it's an apartment, so 90 for electric is absurdly high unless you live in a desert. I usually hit 90 only in July and only because my apartment faces west and has horrendously thin windows. Usually I average $25-30.

B) Car insurance at $100 a month is absurdly low? WTF car insurance do you have? Mine is $250 for 6 months.

C) Dump cable. Buy netflix and/or amazon prime and/or hulu. I've lived without it for 18 months.

D) Get on your parents cell phone plan (or a good friend if parents are not an option). I pay them $10/month (I don't carry data plan). No sense buying a $100 plan for yourself.

E) Food needs to be represented only if it's not free to eat during your shift at McD's, which I certainly hope it is. If it is and you work 40 hours a week... that's... virtually every meal which is why it's not represented here.

F) If you work 40 hours a week, you get health insurance from your company, hence why it's listed at $20/month. My health insurance is roughly that as I get it through work. Course, that's only for ME. It is quite low if it's for a family.

Car payment is about right too... if you work at mcd's... don't buy a car with a $300/month payment. If you do, you're an idiot. $150-$200 sounds just fine.


You can't afford a wife/girlfriend/husband/boyfriend
You don't need cable.  Or Netflix. Or the internet. Those are luxuries. Use rabbit ears for Tv
You don't need a phone. People have done without phones for centuries. If you absolutely have to have a phone for emergencies then get a pre-paid with limited minutes . Virgin Mobile $20 a quarter.
You don't need a car of your own, either use public transportation or go in with other people and share a car you can use to go to work.
You should be sharing the housing/power/water with as many other people as you can manage

And you should be using your free time to gain a skill that allows you to get a better job.
2013-07-15 07:30:58 PM  
1 votes:

jake3988: E) Food needs to be represented only if it's not free to eat during your shift at McD's, which I certainly hope it is. If it is and you work 40 hours a week... that's... virtually every meal which is why it's not represented here.


That's...probably going to kill you by age 40 if you do it for too long.
2013-07-15 07:29:00 PM  
1 votes:

whistleridge: * it does not budget for things like cell phones, that everyone has


Doesn't budget for a landline either, which where I live is about $40 a month minimum.
So the deal is: stay single,  don't have kids, don't go out, don't get any new clothes or shoes, work 80 hours a week at two jobs using a car that only costs $150 a month which doesn't need gasoline, insurance, registration or maintenance - ever, and maybe you won't need so much food if the shift manager is nice and lets you take the leftovers with you.

What the farking fark.
2013-07-15 07:27:16 PM  
1 votes:

grimlock1972: highly unrealistic budget is highly unrealistic.


Waiting to see your highly realistic budget for everyone making $24k...
2013-07-15 06:59:52 PM  
1 votes:
If you're a low-wage McDonald's worker, and you're not a teenager living with your parents, you're doing it wrong.
2013-07-15 06:59:45 PM  
1 votes:
McDonalds is keeping Americans Free.

Free to live in poverty.
2013-07-15 06:51:11 PM  
1 votes:
Welcome to America. Where if you're not working yourself to the bone and barely making ends meet, and teetering on the edge of catastrophe if god forbid you get into an accident or get sick, you're just not trying hard enough, citizen!
2013-07-15 06:49:08 PM  
1 votes:

Lost Thought 00: And zero savings, thereby ensuring you are trapped in that position forever.


First line $100 savings a month
2013-07-15 06:43:13 PM  
1 votes:
It's also worth pointing out that "work a second job" in and of itself is become more of a pipedream.  According to Labor Dept. numbers, we have record numbers in part-time jobs, but the number of people working more than one job is actually going down.

That is because larger employers are using the same basic computer models that give you 'just in time' supplies to schedule working hours.  "We need you 3 hours Monday, 7 on Tuesday, 6 on Thursday, 7 on Saturday... but next week will be totally different".  Making working a second job (and finding child care, etc) farking impossible.
2013-07-15 06:41:56 PM  
1 votes:
Health insurance?  My family was in that middle ground...too "rich" for financial aid, too poor to actually send me to a university.  So they stopped claiming me on their taxes, which eventually led to me being able to apply for financial aid without their income.  But this booted me off their health insurance.  I went a 7 years (5 undergrad (shut up), 2 grad) without it.  Bfd.  Get sick?  Drink juice.  It's called making sacrifices in order to better yourself.  Could something terrible have happened?  Of course.  But the odds were against it.
2013-07-15 05:51:51 PM  
1 votes:
Gosh.. That's pretty much what I did when I was starting out on my career. 80 hour work weeks are good for the character. Except for a few months I turned off my electricity and gas entirely to save up for my first house. Who needs electricity when you're working all the time? It's just a place to lay a head until the next work day. I lived in a slum.. a $300 a month one room apartment. I didn't have a car payment as I had saved up enough working at Chuck E Cheese when I was 16-17 to buy a decent Toyota that lasted me until I was 22 or so.

For people who expect shiat to land on their lap then yes.. this would be a terrible budget. For a person who wore the same pair of jeans / shoes / shirts for 4 or 5 years while I was bootstrapping this is a completely logical and well thought out budget.
 
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