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(Think Progress)   Spiffy: McDonald's helps full-time, low-wage workers fill out a budget. Asinine: By suggesting workers spend $20 a month for health insurance, shut off their heating, live in a slum, and find another full-time, low-wage job to supplement income   (thinkprogress.org) divider line 202
    More: Asinine, McDonalds, wage workers, fast food restaurants  
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3069 clicks; posted to Business » on 15 Jul 2013 at 6:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-15 07:56:11 PM  

CujoQuarrel: Sergeant Grumbles: CujoQuarrel: And you should be using your free time to gain a skill that allows you to get a better job.

Of course. All the free time 80 hours of work a week will allow you. Who needs sleep anyway? That's just time wasted being eaten by the bed bugs into $600 shiathole.

Why would you pay $600 to live in a shiathole? Move to someplace where the housing is cheaper. Try small to mid sized cities.


you'd be surprised how much housing costs in some areas. where i live it's difficult to find an apartment for $1200/mo plus utilities. and we don't live in a fancypants neighborhood, by far.
 
2013-07-15 07:56:23 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: xynix: Gosh.. That's pretty much what I did when I was starting out on my career. 80 hour work weeks are good for the character. Except for a few months I turned off my electricity and gas entirely to save up for my first house. Who needs electricity when you're working all the time? It's just a place to lay a head until the next work day. I lived in a slum.. a $300 a month one room apartment. I didn't have a car payment as I had saved up enough working at Chuck E Cheese when I was 16-17 to buy a decent Toyota that lasted me until I was 22 or so.

For people who expect shiat to land on their lap then yes.. this would be a terrible budget. For a person who wore the same pair of jeans / shoes / shirts for 4 or 5 years while I was bootstrapping this is a completely logical and well thought out budget.

Were you living at home with mom and Dad when you worked at Chucky Cheese? I mean you were only 16.

Do you realize how lucky you were that nothing went wrong during that time period? That you didn't lose your job or had a horrible accident that prevented you from working. That the economy was in the tank so were it's difficult to get two jobs?  Or that the company you work for folded?

Or the fact that being white probably helped out?

People take risk and try things and more time than not, it doesn't work out.


When I was 16 of course. At 17 I changed jobs so I could work more hours. Then the day I turned 18.. literally I moved out. I worked the graveyard shift at a local security monitoring company from 11pm until 7am then I went home, took a shower, went to school. I did that every school day my senior year and if I could clock overtime on the weekends you damn well bet I was there. Then I worked at CompUSA in the warehouse department to break into the IT industry. I worked there from 8am - 5pm on non-college days (scholarship) and delivered pizza for Pizza Hut from 6pm-12am during the evenings.

Plenty went wrong.. Cars break but I had a savings account which I still have. I'm debt free at almost 40 and will be debt free until I die. Though I have very shiny things right now it's because I did with nothing before.

I'm always hearing people on Fark biatching about how hard life is but at the end of the day if you work your ass off you will get rewarded. Otherwise it's weak minded bullshiat.

Oh nooo a budget that makes sense! What about my iPhone 5?????
 
2013-07-15 07:58:34 PM  
whistleridge: insurance are absurdly low as well

The car insurance quote is ok for an adult (non teen) with a clean record.

But I'm wondering how they managed to get a house to need home insurance? I think it means renters insurance :P

/my car insurance is down to $80 a month. I do remember a time in the distant past though when I was paying close to $200 a month.
 
2013-07-15 08:02:01 PM  

xynix: Darth_Lukecash: xynix: Gosh.. That's pretty much what I did when I was starting out on my career. 80 hour work weeks are good for the character. Except for a few months I turned off my electricity and gas entirely to save up for my first house. Who needs electricity when you're working all the time? It's just a place to lay a head until the next work day. I lived in a slum.. a $300 a month one room apartment. I didn't have a car payment as I had saved up enough working at Chuck E Cheese when I was 16-17 to buy a decent Toyota that lasted me until I was 22 or so.

For people who expect shiat to land on their lap then yes.. this would be a terrible budget. For a person who wore the same pair of jeans / shoes / shirts for 4 or 5 years while I was bootstrapping this is a completely logical and well thought out budget.

Were you living at home with mom and Dad when you worked at Chucky Cheese? I mean you were only 16.

Do you realize how lucky you were that nothing went wrong during that time period? That you didn't lose your job or had a horrible accident that prevented you from working. That the economy was in the tank so were it's difficult to get two jobs?  Or that the company you work for folded?

Or the fact that being white probably helped out?

People take risk and try things and more time than not, it doesn't work out.

When I was 16 of course. At 17 I changed jobs so I could work more hours. Then the day I turned 18.. literally I moved out. I worked the graveyard shift at a local security monitoring company from 11pm until 7am then I went home, took a shower, went to school. I did that every school day my senior year and if I could clock overtime on the weekends you damn well bet I was there. Then I worked at CompUSA in the warehouse department to break into the IT industry. I worked there from 8am - 5pm on non-college days (scholarship) and delivered pizza for Pizza Hut from 6pm-12am during the evenings.

Plenty went wrong.. Cars break but I had a savings acco ...


And look what a wonderful and joyful individual you became.
 
2013-07-15 08:02:33 PM  
There are some deluded people in this thread.

Just don't have a phone?  I'm sure your McDonald's manager will appreciate not being able to call you.  Get on your parents plan?  Better home they aren't poor too.  Maybe you can borrow money for college while you're at it.

McDonalds is providing (helpful) heath insurance at 20 dollars a month?  I would eat my foot if that was true.

Don't buy a new car, get a beater instead?  No shiat, they probably already do that.  Beaters still cost farking money.

Eat all McDonald's food (which isn't free for employees by the way).  Yea that's not going to kill you.

The problem isn't high school kids this kind of money.  The problem is adults with families making this kind of money, and their are a lot of them.  Poverty is a cycle that isn't going to be broken by a silly budget written by an HR doofus who has never struggled with money, nor is it going to be broken by smart asses on the internet lamenting about how hard they had it in college.  It can be broken by ensuring our poor have the same opportunity to pursue careers outside of McDonald's as our non-poor, including equally equipped schools, access to good affordable health care, the freedom to not be required to work two jobs, and access to healthy food options.  I could go on, but I'm afraid I might be accused of being a socialist.
 
2013-07-15 08:03:57 PM  

xynix: Darth_Lukecash: xynix: Gosh.. That's pretty much what I did when I was starting out on my career. 80 hour work weeks are good for the character. Except for a few months I turned off my electricity and gas entirely to save up for my first house. Who needs electricity when you're working all the time? It's just a place to lay a head until the next work day. I lived in a slum.. a $300 a month one room apartment. I didn't have a car payment as I had saved up enough working at Chuck E Cheese when I was 16-17 to buy a decent Toyota that lasted me until I was 22 or so.

For people who expect shiat to land on their lap then yes.. this would be a terrible budget. For a person who wore the same pair of jeans / shoes / shirts for 4 or 5 years while I was bootstrapping this is a completely logical and well thought out budget.

Were you living at home with mom and Dad when you worked at Chucky Cheese? I mean you were only 16.

Do you realize how lucky you were that nothing went wrong during that time period? That you didn't lose your job or had a horrible accident that prevented you from working. That the economy was in the tank so were it's difficult to get two jobs?  Or that the company you work for folded?

Or the fact that being white probably helped out?

People take risk and try things and more time than not, it doesn't work out.

When I was 16 of course. At 17 I changed jobs so I could work more hours. Then the day I turned 18.. literally I moved out. I worked the graveyard shift at a local security monitoring company from 11pm until 7am then I went home, took a shower, went to school. I did that every school day my senior year and if I could clock overtime on the weekends you damn well bet I was there. Then I worked at CompUSA in the warehouse department to break into the IT industry. I worked there from 8am - 5pm on non-college days (scholarship) and delivered pizza for Pizza Hut from 6pm-12am during the evenings.

Plenty went wrong.. Cars break but I had a savings acco ...


No doubt this was in a recent economic time.
 
2013-07-15 08:10:01 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: How cute that it thinks folks who are struggling to make ends meet will have $800 to kick around during the month.


Surely you remember that wonderful WSJ graphic that depicted the struggling family of four making $600k having to deal with new taxes?
 
2013-07-15 08:10:16 PM  
Exodus 22:18 Suffer not a Poisoner to live

Hence McDonalds Employees should be murdered on sight.
 
2013-07-15 08:13:29 PM  
An extra $50 in your paycheck if you eat Ronald McDonald's "Happy Meal".

img547.imageshack.us
 
2013-07-15 08:15:56 PM  

gglibertine: /I beat the bedbugs, but it took me a year, I had to throw away most of what I owned and move across town, and I will never be able to convince myself it's worth the money to buy a decent bed again.


Don't live in a place with bedbugs?  If you can afford to do that, then you can definitely afford a good mattress (Even getting the super-Tempurpedic financed over 48 months is like $125/month).

Seriously, it's awesome to not have to deal with back pain anymore.  I still have neck pains a lot of mornings, but not back pains.

/And even with the "It's the Bay Area, so fark you (cost of living adding 5-100% onto the cost of everything that isn't rent (which is quadrupled)) AND the horse you rode in on (~9% sales tax)" prices on mattresses, the place where you'll spend 8 hours a day almost every day for the next 20 or so years is worth spending something on.

ongbok: Sometimes that $600 shiathole is all that is available to some people because a lot of people won't rent to someone making under a certain amount.


KrispyKritter: you'd be surprised how much housing costs in some areas. where i live it's difficult to find an apartment for $1200/mo plus utilities. and we don't live in a fancypants neighborhood, by far.


This.  Legally, in CA, you have to make 2.4x the rent.  So I'm capped at $2500/month, and am currently paying $2100.  Even the absolute shiatholes are $1550 or so for a 1BR in my area, which means that the people renting them are making ~$45K.  So if you're making less than $45K, you legally cannot rent an apartment in Silicon Valley.

/Though if you're White/Asian/Legal Hispanic who speaks English and graduated High School in SV and you're not making at least $50K (or in college), I don't know what you're doing.
 
2013-07-15 08:17:43 PM  
Maybe they should take up a collection for their employees

i.imgur.com . i.imgur.com
 
2013-07-15 08:18:45 PM  

xynix: Darth_Lukecash: xynix: Gosh.. That's pretty much what I did when I was starting out on my career. 80 hour work weeks are good for the character. Except for a few months I turned off my electricity and gas entirely to save up for my first house. Who needs electricity when you're working all the time? It's just a place to lay a head until the next work day. I lived in a slum.. a $300 a month one room apartment. I didn't have a car payment as I had saved up enough working at Chuck E Cheese when I was 16-17 to buy a decent Toyota that lasted me until I was 22 or so.

For people who expect shiat to land on their lap then yes.. this would be a terrible budget. For a person who wore the same pair of jeans / shoes / shirts for 4 or 5 years while I was bootstrapping this is a completely logical and well thought out budget.

Were you living at home with mom and Dad when you worked at Chucky Cheese? I mean you were only 16.

Do you realize how lucky you were that nothing went wrong during that time period? That you didn't lose your job or had a horrible accident that prevented you from working. That the economy was in the tank so were it's difficult to get two jobs?  Or that the company you work for folded?

Or the fact that being white probably helped out?

People take risk and try things and more time than not, it doesn't work out.

When I was 16 of course. At 17 I changed jobs so I could work more hours. Then the day I turned 18.. literally I moved out. I worked the graveyard shift at a local security monitoring company from 11pm until 7am then I went home, took a shower, went to school. I did that every school day my senior year and if I could clock overtime on the weekends you damn well bet I was there. Then I worked at CompUSA in the warehouse department to break into the IT industry. I worked there from 8am - 5pm on non-college days (scholarship) and delivered pizza for Pizza Hut from 6pm-12am during the evenings.

Plenty went wrong.. Cars break but I had a savings account which I still have. I'm debt free at almost 40 and will be debt free until I die. Though I have very shiny things right now it's because I did with nothing before.

I'm always hearing people on Fark biatching about how hard life is but at the end of the day if you work your ass off you will get rewarded. Otherwise it's weak minded bullshiat.

Oh nooo a budget that makes sense! What about my iPhone 5?????


YUP. Did something similar myself. Had huge tragedies occur along the way but was able to back on track because of the groundwork I laid before it.

I do think life is hard, but everyone I know who always worked super hard is doing pretty good with life.

Nobody studied what their 'heart' told them to, they studied vocationally based subjects and worked long, hard hours at crappy jobs and went without so they one day would not have to.

Nobody I know is 'rich' but the ones who gritted their teeth, ducked their head down and kept pushing on day after day no matter what nightmarish reality popped up are doing very, very well.

People get lucky all the time and succeed simply due to luck. For the most part true success, both as a person and on a society, comes from teeth gritting and never settling.

A person who thinks success comes from simple luck, race, or other factors doesn't understand how reality works.
 
2013-07-15 08:28:54 PM  
xynix: I'm always hearing people on Fark biatching about how hard life is but at the end of the day if you work your ass off you will get rewarded. Otherwise it's weak minded bullshiat.

You're wrong. I understand why you think you're right, but you're wrong. Life is not, has never been, and never will be that fair for most people. You might want to try to muster up a little gratitude that your life has never gone so far south that it was unrecoverable, because not everyone is that lucky.

/And if you don't feel lucky, you're a farking idiot.
 
2013-07-15 08:30:12 PM  

Wall_of_Doodoo: A person who thinks success comes from simple luck, race, or other factors doesn't understand how reality works.


A person who thinks success comes from simply teeth gritting and never settling doesn't understand how reality works.
 
2013-07-15 08:30:35 PM  

btchin trans-am: Best I can figure.  But that savings will be gone as soon as the car breaks.

Income 1    700
Income 2    700
Total        1400

Savings        100
Rent        500    w/ Roommates
Car        150    ($7,500 for 5 yr at 7%)
Car Insurance    100
Health Ins.    53    (Obamacare)
Heating        25
Internet/Phone    72
Electric    20
Food        380
Total        1400

Oh and $3 for bootstraps.


Is $20 per month for electricity realistic? In my neighborhood it's more like $100 for the amount a single person would use.
 
2013-07-15 08:31:29 PM  

gglibertine: You're wrong. I understand why you think you're right, but you're wrong. Life is not, has never been, and never will be that fair for most people. You might want to try to muster up a little gratitude that your life has never gone so far south that it was unrecoverable, because not everyone is that lucky.


Also, this.
 
2013-07-15 08:36:11 PM  

CujoQuarrel: Sergeant Grumbles: CujoQuarrel: And you should be using your free time to gain a skill that allows you to get a better job.

Of course. All the free time 80 hours of work a week will allow you. Who needs sleep anyway? That's just time wasted being eaten by the bed bugs into $600 shiathole.

Why would you pay $600 to live in a shiathole? Move to someplace where the housing is cheaper. Try small to mid sized cities.


It costs money to move house.
 
2013-07-15 08:38:52 PM  

kg2095: btchin trans-am: Best I can figure.  But that savings will be gone as soon as the car breaks.

Income 1    700
Income 2    700
Total        1400

Savings        100
Rent        500    w/ Roommates
Car        150    ($7,500 for 5 yr at 7%)
Car Insurance    100
Health Ins.    53    (Obamacare)
Heating        25
Internet/Phone    72
Electric    20
Food        380
Total        1400

Oh and $3 for bootstraps.

Is $20 per person per month for electricity realistic? In my neighborhood it's more like $100 for the amount a single person would use.


Depends.  My apartment uses ~$50-70/month for electricity and gas which gets split 2 ways.
 
2013-07-15 08:42:22 PM  

DrPainMD: If you're a low-wage McDonald's worker, and you're not a teenager living with your parents, you're doing it wrong.


The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that seven out of 10 growth occupations over the next decade will be low-wage fields. And these jobs are not being done by teenagers. Across the country, the median age of fast-food workers is over 28, and women -- who make up two-thirds of the industry -- are over 32, according to the BLS.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/11/mcjobs-should-pa y- too-inside-fast-food-workers-historic-protest-for-living-wages/265714/
 
2013-07-15 08:42:59 PM  
I like the idea of two jobs. Maybe we could have one job that paid twice as much.

/But that will make Baby Jesus cry
 
2013-07-15 08:46:12 PM  

meyerkev: gglibertine: /I beat the bedbugs, but it took me a year, I had to throw away most of what I owned and move across town, and I will never be able to convince myself it's worth the money to buy a decent bed again.

Don't live in a place with bedbugs?  If you can afford to do that, then you can definitely afford a good mattress (Even getting the super-Tempurpedic financed over 48 months is like $125/month).


"Don't live in a place with bedbugs."

Wow, that's some world-class advice, right there. Gosh, why didn't I ever think of that before? Next time I rent an apartment, I'll just ask the rental agent "Do you have bedbugs?" and I'm sure they'll be 100% totally honest with me. Whew! Another bullet dodged!
 
2013-07-15 08:48:04 PM  

CujoQuarrel: And you should be using your free time to gain a skill that allows you to get a better job


I've got 10 years experience as a welder, 3 years as a commercial electrician, 1 year project management experience.  Willing to relocate.

EIP.
 
2013-07-15 08:55:39 PM  

gglibertine: meyerkev: gglibertine: /I beat the bedbugs, but it took me a year, I had to throw away most of what I owned and move across town, and I will never be able to convince myself it's worth the money to buy a decent bed again.

Don't live in a place with bedbugs?  If you can afford to do that, then you can definitely afford a good mattress (Even getting the super-Tempurpedic financed over 48 months is like $125/month).

"Don't live in a place with bedbugs."

Wow, that's some world-class advice, right there. Gosh, why didn't I ever think of that before? Next time I rent an apartment, I'll just ask the rental agent "Do you have bedbugs?" and I'm sure they'll be 100% totally honest with me. Whew! Another bullet dodged!


http://bedbugregistry.com/

/aka: The reason I'm spending $2100/month at my current place instead of $1600/month across the street.
 
2013-07-15 08:59:44 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Or the fact that being white probably helped out?


Great. You're one of them....
 
2013-07-15 08:59:49 PM  

LL316: Health insurance?  My family was in that middle ground...too "rich" for financial aid, too poor to actually send me to a university.  So they stopped claiming me on their taxes, which eventually led to me being able to apply for financial aid without their income.  But this booted me off their health insurance.  I went a 7 years (5 undergrad (shut up), 2 grad) without it.  Bfd.  Get sick?  Drink juice.  It's called making sacrifices in order to better yourself.  Could something terrible have happened?  Of course.  But the odds were against it.


Until they aren't, then you're f--ked.  It's a damn stupid gamble.

In any case, I'm surprised they could.  My friend's sister was estranged from her mother, had a kid of her own, and was living on her own from 18 until 22 when she picked herself up and got into college.  They still took her mom's income into consideration.

Been working since I was 14.  I also worked 80 hour weeks a summer when I was 19 (temp job 8-5, ice cream/take out meals manager 6-11ish).  Worked at the company doing temp for the first two weeks of the summer, job ended, friend's mom needed help at the ice cream stand, then the company called me back for a job of actual importance so I juggled both.

If you have absolutely anything else to worry about - up to and including cooking even just for yourself - it does not. work.  I lived at home, the commute between the two jobs and my house was under 15 minutes, and I just came home and collapsed each night after eating whatever dinner plate my Mom left in the fridge for me.  Barely had time to take care of myself, much less anyone else.  And for a summer that was fine, needed money for school since my family also fell into that crappy middle ground of not rich or poor enough.

But doing that kind of work

a) without a end date in mind,
b) ESPECIALLY without knowing that that effort is going to pay off for you in the end (recent college wall street grad pulling 80 hours a week, owning your own business and pulling 80, etc != an older adult pulling that with the only two retail/food/manual labor jobs/etc they can find.  The former workers know that it's very likely their labor will pay off.  The latter know that one little slip up and the house of cards comes tumbling, and if you're pulling 80 in that work you're likely in a tenuous/desperate life situation at best)

is just unfathomable.  I know people do it and I don't know how their bodies and minds don't break more often.  Maybe they do and it just happens quietly
 
2013-07-15 09:03:35 PM  

meyerkev: http://bedbugregistry.com/

/aka: The reason I'm spending $2100/month at my current place instead of $1600/month across the street.


How nice that you can afford to live in guaranteed bedbug-free luxury. $2100/month is my net pay.

/BTW, that place I used to live? Not listed.
 
2013-07-15 09:05:36 PM  

xynix: Darth_Lukecash: xynix: Gosh.. That's pretty much what I did when I was starting out on my career. 80 hour work weeks are good for the character. Except for a few months I turned off my electricity and gas entirely to save up for my first house. Who needs electricity when you're working all the time? It's just a place to lay a head until the next work day. I lived in a slum.. a $300 a month one room apartment. I didn't have a car payment as I had saved up enough working at Chuck E Cheese when I was 16-17 to buy a decent Toyota that lasted me until I was 22 or so.

For people who expect shiat to land on their lap then yes.. this would be a terrible budget. For a person who wore the same pair of jeans / shoes / shirts for 4 or 5 years while I was bootstrapping this is a completely logical and well thought out budget.

Were you living at home with mom and Dad when you worked at Chucky Cheese? I mean you were only 16.

Do you realize how lucky you were that nothing went wrong during that time period? That you didn't lose your job or had a horrible accident that prevented you from working. That the economy was in the tank so were it's difficult to get two jobs?  Or that the company you work for folded?

Or the fact that being white probably helped out?

People take risk and try things and more time than not, it doesn't work out.

When I was 16 of course. At 17 I changed jobs so I could work more hours. Then the day I turned 18.. literally I moved out. I worked the graveyard shift at a local security monitoring company from 11pm until 7am then I went home, took a shower, went to school. I did that every school day my senior year and if I could clock overtime on the weekends you damn well bet I was there. Then I worked at CompUSA in the warehouse department to break into the IT industry. I worked there from 8am - 5pm on non-college days (scholarship) and delivered pizza for Pizza Hut from 6pm-12am during the evenings.

Plenty went wrong.. Cars break but I had a savings acco ...


well let's scale wage growth to cost of living increases over the last 22 years shall we?   you would have been working in 1992 correct?  that was about 5$ an hour...at 3.5% compounded inflation (and that's beign generous because it's higher than that) puts your wage at 10.65$ in todays dollars (5x1.035^22)  So yoru logic is flawed by the math.  Wages are not increasing anywhere near cost of living.   your arguement is therefore invalid.
 
2013-07-15 09:05:57 PM  

meyerkev: This. Legally, in CA, you have to make 2.4x the rent. So I'm capped at $2500/month, and am currently paying $2100. Even the absolute shiatholes are $1550 or so for a 1BR in my area, which means that the people renting them are making ~$45K. So if you're making less than $45K, you legally cannot rent an apartment in Silicon Valley.


Huh?

So the law requires all unemployed people to be homeless?

This doesn't match my experience renting in California.
 
2013-07-15 09:13:01 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Wall_of_Doodoo: A person who thinks success comes from simple luck, race, or other factors doesn't understand how reality works.

A person who thinks success comes from simply teeth gritting and never settling doesn't understand how reality works.


Horse crap. Plain and simple.

A man who doesn't understand how long and how hard you may have to grit your teeth no matter how many may flake or rot away doesn't understand how reality works or what being a man is.

Perhaps your problem with understanding this is too privedged a life on your part in perspective to actual real people.
 
2013-07-15 09:14:11 PM  

Lawnchair: It's also worth pointing out that "work a second job" in and of itself is become more of a pipedream.  According to Labor Dept. numbers, we have record numbers in part-time jobs, but the number of people working more than one job is actually going down.

That is because larger employers are using the same basic computer models that give you 'just in time' supplies to schedule working hours.  "We need you 3 hours Monday, 7 on Tuesday, 6 on Thursday, 7 on Saturday... but next week will be totally different".  Making working a second job (and finding child care, etc) farking impossible.


There was a piece on Marketplace about that today. Employers want you to work part time, but be available full time. I wonder when the breaking point for workers is going to come.
 
2013-07-15 09:17:19 PM  

Wall_of_Doodoo: A man who doesn't understand how long and how hard you may have to grit your teeth no matter how many may flake or rot away doesn't understand how reality works or what being a man is.


You pathetic attempts at turning poverty into a question of masculinity does nothing to actually address poverty, nor does the prospect of having to grit your teeth until they shatter just to get regular food and shelter.
 
2013-07-15 09:17:57 PM  

Wall_of_Doodoo: Sergeant Grumbles: Wall_of_Doodoo: A person who thinks success comes from simple luck, race, or other factors doesn't understand how reality works.

A person who thinks success comes from simply teeth gritting and never settling doesn't understand how reality works.

Horse crap. Plain and simple.

A man who doesn't understand how long and how hard you may have to grit your teeth no matter how many may flake or rot away doesn't understand how reality works or what being a man is.

Perhaps your problem with understanding this is too privedged a life on your part in perspective to actual real people.


 "If wealth was the inevitable result ofhard work and enterprise, everywoman in Africa would be a millionaire."
 
2013-07-15 09:20:52 PM  

Wall_of_Doodoo: Sergeant Grumbles: Wall_of_Doodoo: A person who thinks success comes from simple luck, race, or other factors doesn't understand how reality works.

A person who thinks success comes from simply teeth gritting and never settling doesn't understand how reality works.

Horse crap. Plain and simple.

A man who doesn't understand how long and how hard you may have to grit your teeth no matter how many may flake or rot away doesn't understand how reality works or what being a man is.

Perhaps your problem with understanding this is too privedged a life on your part in perspective to actual real people.


Because women don't face unemployment hardships?  Or, they can only deal with them by marrying a guy who is employed?
 
2013-07-15 09:28:26 PM  
Americans are pants-on-the-head retarded when it comes to being proud of working harder for less than their parents did. What kind of idiot is proud of the fact that their quality of living is slowly being eroded while a tiny few are living better than the royalty of old?
 
2013-07-15 09:30:56 PM  

12349876: DrPainMD: If you're a low-wage McDonald's worker, and you're not a teenager living with your parents, you're doing it wrong.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that seven out of 10 growth occupations over the next decade will be low-wage fields. And these jobs are not being done by teenagers. Across the country, the median age of fast-food workers is over 28, and women -- who make up two-thirds of the industry -- are over 32, according to the BLS.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/11/mcjobs-should-pa y- too-inside-fast-food-workers-historic-protest-for-living-wages/265714/


Yep.

Since most of the jobs being created are blue-collar, low-wage jobs that don't require a college education, why are we pushing so many kids to go to college (and taking on enormous debt to do so)?  It seems society would be better served by increasing minimum wage to a livable wage so that everyone---those who go to college and those who don't---can survive.
 
2013-07-15 09:31:16 PM  

nmemkha: Americans are pants-on-the-head retarded when it comes to being proud of working harder for less than their parents did. What kind of idiot is proud of the fact that their quality of living is slowly being eroded while a tiny few are living better than the royalty of old?


Thank you for saying this. Truer words have rarely been told.
 
2013-07-15 09:31:56 PM  
Person has a car, car payments and insurance (no repairs though). How about gas for that car folks? Food also might be nice to have.
 
2013-07-15 09:36:01 PM  

fnordfocus: meyerkev: This. Legally, in CA, you have to make 2.4x the rent. So I'm capped at $2500/month, and am currently paying $2100. Even the absolute shiatholes are $1550 or so for a 1BR in my area, which means that the people renting them are making ~$45K. So if you're making less than $45K, you legally cannot rent an apartment in Silicon Valley.

Huh?

So the law requires all unemployed people to be homeless?

This doesn't match my experience renting in California.


So every single place I went said "Total Income of all renters must be 2.4x rent.  It's the law (though I think they might have been lying about that bit, since I can't find anything requiring it So they were kinda lying.  It's not illegal, but it isn't required either)".  So I imagine that you could use sufficient pre-existing assets or a preexisting lease (so if you're renting and then become unemployed you're still on that lease).  There were also a few lower-income housing places that I made about 3x too much money for that would allow really, really poor people to rent (and as usual, middle-class civil servants get screwed since they don't qualify for low-income housing and can't afford anything else).

I also doubt that any person with no income, no expectations of further income, and low or medium assets would be accepted into a new lease at any (non-Section 8) apartment complex anywhere in the country.
 
2013-07-15 09:39:24 PM  

FizixJunkee: 12349876: DrPainMD: If you're a low-wage McDonald's worker, and you're not a teenager living with your parents, you're doing it wrong.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that seven out of 10 growth occupations over the next decade will be low-wage fields. And these jobs are not being done by teenagers. Across the country, the median age of fast-food workers is over 28, and women -- who make up two-thirds of the industry -- are over 32, according to the BLS.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/11/mcjobs-should-pa y- too-inside-fast-food-workers-historic-protest-for-living-wages/265714/

Yep.

Since most of the jobs being created are blue-collar, low-wage jobs that don't require a college education, why are we pushing so many kids to go to college (and taking on enormous debt to do so)?  It seems society would be better served by increasing minimum wage to a livable wage so that everyone---those who go to college and those who don't---can survive.


Sounds like socialism to me!
 
2013-07-15 09:40:19 PM  
My heating bill is indeed $0.00,
 
2013-07-15 09:40:59 PM  

Wall_of_Doodoo: A man who doesn't understand how long and how hard you may have to grit your teeth no matter how many may flake or rot away doesn't understand how reality works or what being a man is.

Perhaps your problem with understanding this is too privedged a life on your part in perspective to actual real people.


I'm curious. Have you ever actually  had your teeth rot away? Because mine are rotting away right now, and I'm having a hard time picturing a positive outcome. Perhaps you could offer some words of advice.

/Two of the temporary crowns lasted 7 years. The other two only lasted 2. I spend time every evening picking the food out of the holes so the fluoride rinse will get to everything. Occasionally another piece falls off. It's not so bad, at least they don't hurt. Yet.
 
2013-07-15 09:41:14 PM  

gglibertine: meyerkev: http://bedbugregistry.com/

/aka: The reason I'm spending $2100/month at my current place instead of $1600/month across the street.

How nice that you can afford to live in guaranteed bedbug-free luxury. $2100/month is my net pay.

/BTW, that place I used to live? Not listed.


Fair enough.

Also, keep in mind that it's Silicon Valley.  Dad's renting a 1050 sq.ft (+ 500 sq. ft basement) 3 bed, 1.5 bath place in MI for $550.  I'm splitting a terrible 2 bed, 1 bath for $2100 total.   True luxury begins at about $2600 and can easily bounce off $3500 for a 1BR or $4500 for a 2 BR.

/and then you can head up into SF like all the Google people and at that point the sky's the limit since getting things like "functional plumbing" and "working electrical systems that can handle the average microwave" are under luxury status up there.
 
2013-07-15 09:42:40 PM  

nmemkha: Americans are pants-on-the-head retarded when it comes to being proud of working harder for less than their parents did. What kind of idiot is proud of the fact that their quality of living is slowly being eroded while a tiny few are living better than the royalty of old?


Because people in this country appreciate whether a bad job, good job, or no job without protest. We'll take what we can.

sdd2000: Person has a car, car payments and insurance (no repairs though). How about gas for that car folks? Food also might be nice to have.


Robots don't eat and they work, why should humans? Maybe eventually companies can find a way to feed their workers for little or nothing without having to pay their workers to buy food.
 
2013-07-15 09:48:15 PM  

Funk Brothers: nmemkha: Americans are pants-on-the-head retarded when it comes to being proud of working harder for less than their parents did. What kind of idiot is proud of the fact that their quality of living is slowly being eroded while a tiny few are living better than the royalty of old?

Because people in this country appreciate whether a bad job, good job, or no job without protest. We'll take what we can.

sdd2000: Person has a car, car payments and insurance (no repairs though). How about gas for that car folks? Food also might be nice to have.

Robots don't eat and they work, why should humans? Maybe eventually companies can find a way to feed their workers for little or nothing without having to pay their workers to buy food.



My old man he is dead and gone
Now I am your old man
And my advice to you, my son
Is to fight back while you can
Watch out for the man with the silicon chip
Hold on to your job with a good firm grip
'Cause if you don't you'll have had your chips
The same as my old man


Ewan MacColl
 
2013-07-15 09:50:11 PM  

meyerkev: This.   Legally, in CA, you have to make 2.4x the rent.  So I'm capped at $2500/month, and am currently paying $2100.  Even the absolute shiatholes are $1550 or so for a 1BR in my area, which means that the people renting them are making ~$45K.  So if you're making less than $45K, you legally cannot rent an apartment in Silicon Valley.



What kind of gibbering bullshiat is this?  I know for a fact that this isn't the law here in San Diego, and there's no f*cking way that this is actually a city ordinance anywhere in the state without it getting legally challenged.

I can see it being a common practice with rental property managers, but no way that's an actual law.  And even if it's a common practice, that's just ripe as all hell for a redlining /civil rights challenge.
 
Juc
2013-07-15 09:51:45 PM  

Goimir: CujoQuarrel: And you should be using your free time to gain a skill that allows you to get a better job

I've got 10 years experience as a welder, 3 years as a commercial electrician, 1 year project management experience.  Willing to relocate.

EIP.


look up jobs on the oil rigs in alberta.
 
2013-07-15 09:54:33 PM  

gglibertine: Wall_of_Doodoo: A man who doesn't understand how long and how hard you may have to grit your teeth no matter how many may flake or rot away doesn't understand how reality works or what being a man is.

Perhaps your problem with understanding this is too privedged a life on your part in perspective to actual real people.

I'm curious. Have you ever actually  had your teeth rot away? Because mine are rotting away right now, and I'm having a hard time picturing a positive outcome. Perhaps you could offer some words of advice.

/Two of the temporary crowns lasted 7 years. The other two only lasted 2. I spend time every evening picking the food out of the holes so the fluoride rinse will get to everything. Occasionally another piece falls off. It's not so bad, at least they don't hurt. Yet.


Yup and nope. Lost a third of my teeth to an amelioblastoma 7 years ago along with a third of my mandible and lost a few since due to rot. It sucked, no insurance, making it just to barely get by was a nightmare, huge scars, had to learn how to speak again.

Ya know what I didn't do, whine about how unfair it was.

Okay, back on subject, no idea dude. I assume either cosmetic dentist or otolaryngologist, depending on your need. A ENT guy was built me a jaw outta fibula and titanium so I'd consider that.

Or Grillz, do you ever drop mad beats?
 
2013-07-15 09:58:11 PM  

Wall_of_Doodoo: Yup and nope. Lost a third of my teeth to an amelioblastoma 7 years ago along with a third of my mandible and lost a few since due to rot. It sucked, no insurance, making it just to barely get by was a nightmare, huge scars, had to learn how to speak again.

Ya know what I didn't do, whine about how unfair it was.


How did you get by?
Bankruptcy?
Were you working two 40 hour minimum wage jobs?
Am I going to have to get a picture of Craig T. Nelson?
 
2013-07-15 10:01:16 PM  

xynix: Gosh.. That's pretty much what I did when I was starting out on my career. 80 hour work weeks are good for the character. Except for a few months I turned off my electricity and gas entirely to save up for my first house. Who needs electricity when you're working all the time? It's just a place to lay a head until the next work day. I lived in a slum.. a $300 a month one room apartment. I didn't have a car payment as I had saved up enough working at Chuck E Cheese when I was 16-17 to buy a decent Toyota that lasted me until I was 22 or so.

For people who expect shiat to land on their lap then yes.. this would be a terrible budget. For a person who wore the same pair of jeans / shoes / shirts for 4 or 5 years while I was bootstrapping this is a completely logical and well thought out budget.


Mr. Baldwin, have I ever told you that you were farking awesome in Glengarry Glen Ross?
 
2013-07-15 10:02:31 PM  

Wall_of_Doodoo: gglibertine: Wall_of_Doodoo: A man who doesn't understand how long and how hard you may have to grit your teeth no matter how many may flake or rot away doesn't understand how reality works or what being a man is.

Perhaps your problem with understanding this is too privedged a life on your part in perspective to actual real people.

I'm curious. Have you ever actually  had your teeth rot away? Because mine are rotting away right now, and I'm having a hard time picturing a positive outcome. Perhaps you could offer some words of advice.

/Two of the temporary crowns lasted 7 years. The other two only lasted 2. I spend time every evening picking the food out of the holes so the fluoride rinse will get to everything. Occasionally another piece falls off. It's not so bad, at least they don't hurt. Yet.

Yup and nope. Lost a third of my teeth to an amelioblastoma 7 years ago along with a third of my mandible and lost a few since due to rot. It sucked, no insurance, making it just to barely get by was a nightmare, huge scars, had to learn how to speak again.

Ya know what I didn't do, whine about how unfair it was.

Okay, back on subject, no idea dude. I assume either cosmetic dentist or otolaryngologist, depending on your need. A ENT guy was built me a jaw outta fibula and titanium so I'd consider that.

Or Grillz, do you ever drop mad beats?


OK, fair enough, you win the Ironman contest.
 
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