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(Forbes)   Schadenfreude time: Unions cry that ObamaCare will shatter their benefits and destroy the 40 hour work week. You supported it, you live with it   (forbes.com) divider line 357
    More: Fail, obamacare, United Food, health insurance, Richard Trumka, perverse incentives, American middle class, UFCW, Teamsters  
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2768 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Jul 2013 at 2:31 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-07-16 09:50:20 PM

meyerkev: DoctorCal: So what, exactly, is going to change that makes it possible to convince people to accept those terms now?

So most golf courses aren't in the middle of farking nowhere (to the extent that that one was anyways.  It was entirely possible to not see a single car on the road on the entire ride there through farm country).

Also, most golf courses don't pay $8/hour (Heck, McDonald'spays $9 for new hires and they've got WAY better working conditions).  I've heard $10-$13 with occasional bumps to $15 for long-term workers at the more exclusive private courses and the ones that do pay $8/hour get skinhead white supremacist ex-cons, college students mooching off their parents for room and board (I made $6K in PROFIT that summer. My CS internships that paid 3x as much couldn't match that), and Latinos (good) who don't speak English (bad).  $12/hour isn't great, but they're working lots of OT (At time and a half.  I cleared $300 on $8/hour over 2.5 days on Memorial Day weekend when we turned the sprinklers on for the first time) and also spending $600/month on a pretty nice 1 BR (or as mentioned, mooching off parents).  .

Also, a lot of these courses give free-ish golf as a benefit, so it's entirely possible to find a bunch of retired dudes who want to get free golf.  I kid you not, we had a 60-year old retired guy on the maintenance crew who had been making $200K/year as an engineer at IBM making $8/hour at the course and the entire front crew (where you don't have to do physical labor all day) was over 55.

So even if they shifted over to mostly part-time crews (with a more-or-less consistent schedule because of the sun which puts it one-up on a lot of other places), it'd be entirely possible to find people who wanted to work 5-9, get free golf, go home, shower, and then go to another job from 10-??? (I know there were a lot of businesses downtown that opened at 10 or 11, so this would at least be possible).


*headdesk* *headdesk*  *headdesk*  *headdesk*  *headdesk*

HeartBurnKid: So the obvious question is, why weren't the employees all part-time already?

 
2013-07-16 09:56:52 PM

meyerkev: HeartBurnKid: meyerkev: So I worked at a golf course one summer. They'll actually all start doing this once Obamacare kicks in because you get 90+% of your work done between 5 AM and 9 AM before the golfers get out, and then nothing done thereafter.

So hire a dozen guys to show up at 5 AM, give them fark-all for benefits, and then have 3 guys stay on as full timers to do the necessary all-day work.

So the obvious question is, why weren't the employees all part-time already?

Because at $8/hour/5-6 months a year, it's hard to convince people to drive out into the middle of farking nowhere and only work 4 hours.  Heck, I only got the job because of nepotism.


And this is going to change because they need to provide healthcare now?
 
2013-07-16 10:22:09 PM

HeartBurnKid: meyerkev: HeartBurnKid: meyerkev: So I worked at a golf course one summer. They'll actually all start doing this once Obamacare kicks in because you get 90+% of your work done between 5 AM and 9 AM before the golfers get out, and then nothing done thereafter.

So hire a dozen guys to show up at 5 AM, give them fark-all for benefits, and then have 3 guys stay on as full timers to do the necessary all-day work.

So the obvious question is, why weren't the employees all part-time already?

Because at $8/hour/5-6 months a year, it's hard to convince people to drive out into the middle of farking nowhere and only work 4 hours.  Heck, I only got the job because of nepotism.

And this is going to change because they need to provide healthcare now?


I think the answer is clearly


fc06.deviantart.net
 
2013-07-16 11:11:05 PM

HeartBurnKid: meyerkev: HeartBurnKid: meyerkev: So I worked at a golf course one summer. They'll actually all start doing this once Obamacare kicks in because you get 90+% of your work done between 5 AM and 9 AM before the golfers get out, and then nothing done thereafter.

So hire a dozen guys to show up at 5 AM, give them fark-all for benefits, and then have 3 guys stay on as full timers to do the necessary all-day work.

So the obvious question is, why weren't the employees all part-time already?

Because at $8/hour/5-6 months a year, it's hard to convince people to drive out into the middle of farking nowhere and only work 4 hours.  Heck, I only got the job because of nepotism.

And this is going to change because they need to provide healthcare now?


Yes, I didn't answer the question.  My bad.  

So the basic problem is that if you're going to have 15 guys out on the course (instead of the 6 we normally had), you need to have equipment for 15 guys.  (We could maybe have done 10 at one time, but not all that stuff gets used every day, so once we got past 7 or 8 people, we were doubling up or finding makework)

And when a mower is $25K (plus maintenance), and your workers are at $8/hour, it makes more sense to pay a bunch of guys $8/hour to be full-time (even with OT) and have 17 pieces of equipment (1 sprayer, 2 fairway (6 hours for 18 holes), 2 tee (4-5 hours), 2 green(2-3 hours), 2 bunker rakes (4 hours-ish), 1 rough mower (all day, took about a week to do the whole course in the summer and 2 days to do the non-dead bits in the summer), 2 weedwhackers, 2 rarely used walking mowers, 1 riding mower for the trees, 1 mower for the rough near the greens (6 hours), 1 intermediate mower (5 hours)) breaking down instead of 30.  (And if you're looking at that list going WTF, there's enough mowers for everyone A) Not everything is used on a given day.  B) Maybe 70% of the equipment was up at any given time)

But when a worker is $8/hour (or let's say they bump the pay to $12 to find the people) plus $600/month in health insurance for a single male (not joking, mostly because the job is farking dangerous (sharp blades, people trying to injure you on a daily basis (Seriously, cut that out), trees falling over on your head, dangerous rabid raccoons, geese (Fark geese), poison ivy, etc, etc), involves serious chemicals (It was a good day spraying trees when I didn't end up with RoundUp stains down my back and I wasn't legally allowed to go into the same room as the really dangerous stuff), and has no OSHA compliance, all of which send actuaries running away screaming.  Dad's ALONE is $8,000 - $10,000/year for the aforementioned reasons), the mower just paid for itself in 3 years.  And since the back side crew CANNOT just be old dudes on Medicare since there is some serious physical labor involved (though some of them can be, since they're just riding mowers all day), they're either paying for serious health insurance or hiring more guys to do part-time labor and purchasing (incredibly farking expensive) equipment for them.

Also, since the golfers biatch mercilessly about the noise and the mowers trying to do work while they're playing, they should get a small benefit off doing everything in the mornings.

/Dad's been mildly pushing for this (It just makes sense.  You don't get squat done once the golfers are out) even before Obamacare, so he might be able to get them after they do the math
 
m00
2013-07-17 12:06:40 AM

Lee Jackson Beauregard: m00: The Democrats held both houses by wide margins.

Farkin' filibusters, how do they work?



DoctorCal was nice enough to point out there was a reply on Fark I had missed. :) Here's what I said on the other thread:

Personally I think if a political party owns both houses of Congress AND the presidency then there really isn't an excuse, even filibusters. I mean... think of it like this. If a political party owns every facet of federal government lawmaking and still can't be held responsible for what happens under their watch, than what are we doing as a country? No politician would ever be responsible for anything. I think Bill Clinton was probably the greatest president of my lifetime, and he had to work with Newt Gingrich who was trying to impeach him at the time. That's leadership.

I just believe if you can't hold a party responsible when they own both houses by wide margins and the presidency, then there's no such thing as accountability. And I think this is exactly the situation both parties want.
 
2013-07-17 12:53:12 AM

meyerkev: HeartBurnKid: meyerkev: HeartBurnKid: meyerkev: So I worked at a golf course one summer. They'll actually all start doing this once Obamacare kicks in because you get 90+% of your work done between 5 AM and 9 AM before the golfers get out, and then nothing done thereafter.

So hire a dozen guys to show up at 5 AM, give them fark-all for benefits, and then have 3 guys stay on as full timers to do the necessary all-day work.

So the obvious question is, why weren't the employees all part-time already?

Because at $8/hour/5-6 months a year, it's hard to convince people to drive out into the middle of farking nowhere and only work 4 hours.  Heck, I only got the job because of nepotism.

And this is going to change because they need to provide healthcare now?

Yes, I didn't answer the question.  My bad.  

So the basic problem is that if you're going to have 15 guys out on the course (instead of the 6 we normally had), you need to have equipment for 15 guys.  (We could maybe have done 10 at one time, but not all that stuff gets used every day, so once we got past 7 or 8 people, we were doubling up or finding makework)

And when a mower is $25K (plus maintenance), and your workers are at $8/hour, it makes more sense to pay a bunch of guys $8/hour to be full-time (even with OT) and have 17 pieces of equipment (1 sprayer, 2 fairway (6 hours for 18 holes), 2 tee (4-5 hours), 2 green(2-3 hours), 2 bunker rakes (4 hours-ish), 1 rough mower (all day, took about a week to do the whole course in the summer and 2 days to do the non-dead bits in the summer), 2 weedwhackers, 2 rarely used walking mowers, 1 riding mower for the trees, 1 mower for the rough near the greens (6 hours), 1 intermediate mower (5 hours)) breaking down instead of 30.  (And if you're looking at that list going WTF, there's enough mowers for everyone A) Not everything is used on a given day.  B) Maybe 70% of the equipment was up at any given time)

But when a worker is $8/hour (or let's say they bump the pay t ...


Perhaps, but you're still going to run into the problem you had before -- you have to make the job appealing enough for people to bother coming out, and if that means offering full time, you're going to offer full time.  Labor is a market like any other, and just like there's only so many costs you can pass on to the consumer before you've priced yourself out of the market, there's only so many cutbacks you can make on labor before you've dried up your talent pool.  Personally, if I'm in charge, and I've already done this calculation that I need to offer full time or else I'm not going to get workers, having to offer health care doesn't change that calculus a whole lot.  Hell, I'd raise dues to pay for it; we're talking about a country club here, the members aren't what you'd call price sensitive.
 
2013-07-17 02:37:59 AM

HeartBurnKid: Hell, I'd raise dues to pay for it; we're talking about a country club here, the members aren't what you'd call price sensitive


Nah.  Public course.  Middle of nowhere.  Mind you, it's a nice public course because they hired 2 ex-private course guys to run it and their definition of slacking off is everyone else's definition of "Holy crap, the fairways are green in July/August for the first time in 35 years" so they've probably got a bit of buffer there.

Mind you, they DON'T have money problems.   40-50,000 rounds (depending on weather (Did we have a rainy April/May, 100F temps in July, a cold October, and snow in November? Yeah, they're lucky to break 35K.  If none of the above, they'll bounce off 55K)) at $35-50/round (depending on day of the week and seniors).  Plus beer at $5/beer (and they can fill 1.5 large trash cans with the empties every day.  Dunno what that means in terms of numbers).

The real problem is that they have an owner who's 3rd generation (1st generation makes the money, 2nd generation respects the money, 3rd generation blows the money) family who also doesn't understand the meaning of the term inflation.  MBA's are bad, 3rd generation family is worse.

A rough mower costs more than the entire course (back in 196X).  So whenever they say "So we can fix the problem where #16 floods and becomes a Par 3 for the first 2 months of the season for $60K by running a pipe down #15", the owner freaks and starts biatching about how everything costs so much these days.  Repeat for EVERYTHING.  (This also has the interesting side effect of making things cost more and suck harder.  If they bought one new mower a year forever, they wouldn't have the massive crippling maintenance problems and they could just fit "New Mower: $25-50K" into the budget.  Same with fixing the bunkers,  etc, etc.  It's a LOT easier to say "We're going to fix up 1 hole a year every year until infinity for $30K" and roll that into the budget than it is to say "Once every 30 years, we're going to get whacked with a half million dollar bill for redoing every single sand trap (poorly.  They shouldn't take 3 hours each to pump out.  In fact, done right, we should never have to pump them out.*)")

/I just wanna see the look on the guy's face when the irrigation system finally goes and/or they can't get parts any more.  It's like $2 Million or MORE for a new irrigation system.

* Also, for people with high school math: The course flooded 4 Saturdays in a row the first year I worked there.  Each time, we spent $600 renting 4 trash pumps from the local-ish Home Depots (Total Cost to buy the same pumps: ~$8K), and an additional 40 hours of hourly overtime ($12/hour + gas, payroll tax, keeping the lights on, extra coffee, water, etc) that would never have been worked plus a redirection of ~60 normal work man-hours ($8/hour) to fixing the bunkers.  Assuming that I want a 5-year payoff, at what point do these things pay for themselves?

1) Buying the pumps ourselves.  Total one-time cost: $8K.  Total Savings: ~$700 in rental fees, gas, etc.
2) Replacing all the bunkers and doing them properly for about $250K so that they don't flood and rebuilding them after a rain storm takes about 25 man-hours.  Total Savings: ~20 overtime hours, 35 normal man-hours, and 2 of the cheaper pumps (so ~$200 in rental fees).
3) Redoing the entire course so it farking drains (Mind you, you'll still get one-off floods, but they should be a RARE OCCURRENCE).  This is an extension of #2, and costs about $1 Million.  Savings: All the pump rental, 35 OT hours, 35 regular hours.
 
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